🏀 KuBuckets Archive

On going the college route for ones pro chances, espn.com has this to say:

Cautionary tales: For every Cade Cunningham, RJ Barrett or Anthony Davis -- can't-miss stars who lived up to their potential and became top draft picks, there are top-10 recruits including Trevon Duval, Cliff Alexander or James Michael McAdoo who fizzled out or never played a game in the NBA. Some players leave school too early, suffer injuries, or simply don't fulfill their potential because they went to a less than ideal situation, didn't work hard enough, or were perhaps overrated. Other elite high school prospects, such as Quentin Grimes, were able to rebound from poor starts to their career by transferring and finding success elsewhere, ultimately still becoming first-round picks. It's a trend that will likely accelerate now that players need not worry about sitting out a year when they transfer, and also have increased opportunities to get paid.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32655904/how-g-league-ignite-ote-nbl-college-basketball-stack-elite-nba-draft-prospects ↗

^ ONLY CLICK ON THIS LINK IF YOU WANT TO SUPPORT DOMESTIC TERRORISM

@approxinfinity Blah , Blah , Blah - -fricken ESPN . -Notice they managed to bring up Cliff & Quentin in this junk

@jayballer67 exactly. Such targeted bullshit.

@approxinfinity said in ESPN.com, gutter rag:

@jayballer67 exactly. Such targeted bullshit.

ya that was pretty easy to pick out they are worthless

Literally a 100 other examples to choose from. Did Pat Forde right this?

@BeddieKU23 is right a play on words? Perfect!

I think you all need to read the article. That quote is a tiny part of it and there are dozens of other cautionary examples cited. It is actually an extensive analysis of all the different choices available to elite players and how that has changed.

There is so much desire on this board to feel picked on by ESPN that I am afraid y'all stay awake at night for fear that you will have nightmares about it.

@mayjay nope. I did read the rest of the article, and in no way does it invalidate my point. If you don’t see it I think you’re not really looking. The cautionary tale section mentions 7 players.

3 positively: a Kentucky star (AD) a Duke player as if he’s a star but he isn’t yet (RJ Barrett) and Cade Cunningham.

3 negatively because of “fizzling out”: Mcadoo, Alexander and Duvall. ie a UNC guy, a Duke guy and a KU guy, the latter of which was suspended because of alleged under the table stuff. Why pick Alexander?

Finally, a single last player mentioned negatively, Quentin Grimes, as an example of someone who underperformed and had to transfer to be successful.

This looks like a pretty clear hit job to me. Of all the players they could choose from, why these seven?

A hit job on who, exactly?

@mayjay on KU, while promoting Duke.

@approxinfinity How many other top 5 recruits, Cliff was ranked 4th in his class, underperformed the way Cliff did in college, went undrafted, and only played 8 games in the NBA? KU also has Josh Selby that could've very easily been on that list as well since he only played 38 games in the NBA over 2 seasons and generally underperformed in his limited time at KU as well, but there'd be some company there.

What other top 5 recruits of the past decade or so flamed out as badly as those two? The other players in the top 5 of Selby's class were Harrison Barnes, Kyrie Irving, Jared Sullinger, and Brandon Knight. Everyone but Selby played at least 5 seasons in the NBA.

In Cliff's class, the other top 5 players were Jahlil Okafor, Emmanuel Mudiay,
Stanley Johnson, and Karl-Anthony Towns. Again, everyone but Cliff spent at least 5 years in the NBA.

In 2012, you have Isaiah Austin who never played in the NBA, but that was because of medical issues, not ability. Bol Bol might come close to Cliff, but even then he's played in 39 NBA games over 2 seasons which tops Cliff.

The fact is Cliff Alexander is by far the biggest bust of the past 10+ years in basketball in regards to high school ranking and what they accomplished both in college and the pros. No other top 5 recruit even went undrafted except for Isaiah Austin which only happened because he was diagnosed with Marfin Syndrome during his pre-draft medical evaluations, otherwise he would've been drafted as well.

@mayjay said in ESPN.com, gutter rag:

I think you all need to read the article. That quote is a tiny part of it and there are dozens of other cautionary examples cited. It is actually an extensive analysis of all the different choices available to elite players and how that has changed.

There is so much desire on this board to feel picked on by ESPN that I am afraid y'all stay awake at night for fear that you will have nightmares about it.

you don't have to stay awake at night and worry about me and having nighmares about ESPN - -their not worth it lmao

@Texas-Hawk-10 nice analysis. Something to consider. Certainly doesn’t help our case with 5 stars to recruit big busts. I’d argue that those kids made their own bed. All of them could have developed under Self with more time. I don’t think it’s fair to consider them products of Kansas basketball. But for the purposes of this article it gives the author plausible deniability for his hit job.

@approxinfinity Do you consider Joel Embiid a product of Kansas basketball?

@Texas-Hawk-10 sure. He got better here because he was capable of doing it in one season and they were not.

Do you think that those guys would have gotten much better under Self?

If Embiid hadn’t been ready to go to the league but left anyway then I would say the same thing, not fair to consider him a product of KU bball

How many 4 year players has Self had that didn’t maximize their potential?

The article does not even hint at a failure by KU, which is not named in any references to our players named in the article.

ESPN should charge you for the streaming you imagine you are seeing.

@mayjay people who know basketball know what programs these kids are part of.

@approxinfinity said in ESPN.com, gutter rag:

@Texas-Hawk-10 sure. He got better here because he was capable of doing it in one season and they were not.

Do you think that those guys would have gotten much better under Self?

If Embiid hadn’t been ready to go to the league but left anyway then I would say the same thing, not fair to consider him a product of KU bball

So because Embiid did get better, whereas the other two didn't, you want to claim him, but disassociate those who didn't develop as much as not being KU products? Sorry, but that's extremely hypocritical and doesn't work that way.

Cliffs mom screwed him. He would've got better.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yep. That’s right. That’s not hypocritical. I see it like contracting someone to build you a house then telling him when he’s halfway done that you’re firing him and that the house he built you is trash.

They were clearly not ready. Everyone knew that.

I’m still curious if you think they would have gotten to the next level under Self with more time. That to me seems to be the paramount question.

All of which has nothing to do with the article, which is merely about the several avenues players can choose from in trying to get to the pros. Again, not a word about any college failing them.

@mayjay you’re looking at this like a legal case.

I believe ESPN has motive to smear KU and promote Duke. I believe that their target audience in this piece is prospective recruits and their families. I believe that audience is well aware of what university the athletes cited as cautionary tales attended. I believe that these athletes are also used as cautionary tales by coaches recruiting said prospective recruits, and that stories like this on ESPN lend those coaches credibility. I believe that 2 of the 4 athletes mentioned negatively being from KU is no accident, which is why I believe the discussion with @Texas-Hawk-10 is worth having.

As for why I believe ESPN has motive: I believe controversy sells, and what started as a disproportionate number of staff members focused on Duke grew into their formula as they realized it’s potential, and Vitale and company were asked to be even more pro Duke.

Unlike a legal court, in the court of public opinion I don’t have to prove I’m right to have my opinion be admissible. There is no defense or prosecution, and there most certainly is no innocence.

The almighty Zion just might not quite live up to expectations. Hurt because of weight? Is espn bragging about the leading scorer? Och?

ESPN owns the ACC network and the SEC network. No conflict of interest there?

@wissox well they bought the rights to Big 12 when they bought Big 12 network in 2014, but that gets complicated with Longhorn Network I guess? 4 of the top 10 media markets have ACC teams in them. 2 have B12 teams, but one of those is Dallas. Certainly it seems less complicated and more profitable to target ACC fans over fans of the Big 12.

I give up.

Meanwhile, Happy Thanksgiving! (I just was thinking of all those poor turkeys who have far more reason to be paranoid than KU fans....)