🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Something triggers Nike-UK to have a reputed 10 OAD/TADs, while adidas KU and Nike MSU appear to have less than half that number.

Something triggers Nike-Duke to have a reputed 9 OAD/TADs, while adidas KU and Nike MSU appear to have less than half that number.

Rick Pitino's recent reputed comments suggest that agents and agent runners have something to do with it, and that he reputedly understood the NCAA thinks there was nothing wrong, so he did not either. But that doesn't really explain the mechanism of what makes it happen.

Norm Roberts reputedly got forced out of St. Johns, because, at least I recall, that it was reputedly reported in a NY newspaper that he would not play ball with some summer game and juco coaches. What playing ball meant was never made clear as I recall.

So: let's collect certain agents and agent runners, and certain summer game coaches and juco coaches, into a category called "hypothetical triggers of recruiting asymmetry."

I can kind of see how this hypothetical category might "enable" recruiting generally. If they get to know and be trusted by players, players and/or their families would likely get to know and associate with them in order to find trusted summer game teams, trusted college programs, and later trusted agency and endorsement relationships.

What I cannot understand is how this hypothetical category would trigger these recruiting asymmetries noted above and others.

How does this system work?

Is there an organization--formal, or informal--that is bringing an order to recruiting that is triggering recruiting asymmetry?

Notice: I am not assuming anything illegal is going on. I am not asking for any explanation that hinges on illegality.

I am assuming that things are legal and in conformity with the rules and reguations of college basketball.

I am only looking for a legal explanation that is in conformity with the rules and regulations of college basketball.

I have considered the hypothesis that Drake and general recruiting hipness and facilities have converged to trigger the recruiting asymmetry. But that hypothesis does not explain Duke, which Drake does not seem a fan of, and whose coach is never described as being incredibly now and nutty. So: I have had to reject that hypothesis.

I have considered the hypothesis that it is just coincidence. But coincindence does not explain the steady trending upwards in Nike-UK's recruiting, and for that matter in Duke's recruiting. Variance is not the same as total coincidence.

I have considered the hypothesis that it is driven by location in an eastern standard time zone. But that does not explain all the teams in the eastern standard time zone, some with good coaches and traditions, that get the same level of recruits as Nike-UK and Nike-Duke. Location is rejected.

I have considered the hypothesis that it is PetroShoeCo brand driven. This does not explain why so many programs with the same PetroShoeCo brand as Nike-UK and Nike-Duke do not have similar large clumps of OAD/TAD recruits. I have to reject the PetroShoeCo only hypothesis.

Someone help me here?

@jaybate-1.0 Interesting...I'd not ever heard that about Norm. W & L record was not great but...the disparity in player numbers are huge. Coach K & Cal are sure well "connected" so one can theorize many things within the realm of their often & many questionable contacts at the Olympic & NBA levels. Makes me wonder for sure but many birds just are happy with their heads in the sand. But those are not real pedigreed JBirds !!

@globaljaybird

If I recall correctly, a New York newspaper--not the NYT--maybe the Daily News--ran a sports page story about Norm having struggled to sign local players because of some local summer game and juco coaches finding him uncooperative. I recall it was linked and discussed some at that "other site."

Anyway, I want to find out how this works, so that KU can start getting a competitive share, if this is the way it has to be and its legal and in conformity with the college basketball rules and regulations. We have this marvelous coach and coaching staff. And we want them coaching on a level playing field if we can.

And right now I can't even figure out what is causing the asymmetry, much less how to solve it.

@jaybate-1.0 said:

@globaljaybird

If I recall correctly, a New York newspaper--not the NYT--maybe the Daily News--ran a sports page story about Norm having struggled to sign local players because of some local summer game and juco coaches finding him uncooperative. I recall it was linked and discussed some at that "other site."

Anyway, I want to find out how this works, so that KU can start getting a competitive share, if this is the way it has to be and its legal and in conformity with the college basketball rules and regulations. We have this marvelous coach and coaching staff. And we want them coaching on a level playing field if we can.

Let's have WWW over for some Bevo next weekend !!

And right now I can't even figure out what is causing the asymmetry, much less how to solve it.

@globaljaybird Poor edit but you get the drift. iPhones are tuff nuts to crack.

@globaljaybird

Well said. Bevo it is!!!!

Really, I think there is a lot to be gained for the game and KU Basketball to sort this out.

The game is in transition from a sport governed by rules of late 19th Century amateurism ethics to something new. That seems the whole point of the NCAA's move to autonomy for the Power 5. It is quite possible that what has been going on in the background relative to agency and agent runners was a proper thing to have been going on along and that it used to work fairly efficiently, i.e., without such great asymmetries, and that it is only during a perhaps awkward and uncertain transition that these asymmetries are resulting. It is possible that the roles of agents and agent runners will rationalize, normalize and standardize in coming years into something they should always have been. I have no idea. But until we figure out how the system works, we can hardly understand what to support and what to discourage.

Regarding the AAU coaches and juco coaches, they should, conceptually at least, be no different than high school coaches in the potential for positive contribution to players development in basketball and in life. Unless the incentive systems have some how been forced underground and compromised, how can AAU coaches and juco coaches be anything but positive contributors to the game?

Agency in Hollywood has gone through many phases where certain talent agencies got incredibly powerful and began to broker such a large shares of the talent that they were able to gouge quite a bit out of the participants. They could make, or break, persons careers before and after they became stars. But these agencies have over time equilibrated in a handful of big agencies, plus hundreds of small ones, rather than 1 monopoly agency, or hundreds of fragmented agencies. There seem to be certain equilibrium tendencies in scale that emerge over time that reconcile more than just the greed of one agency, or one production company.

I suspect college basketball is caught up in one of these kinds of fluctuations as college basketball seeks to reorient itself to a new kind of amateur status more indicative of the forces and revenues feeding into the game.

But we have to know what the heck is going on, before we can advocate for the best interest of KU Basketball.

Rock Chalk!!!

@jaybate-1.0 Whatever is the last remaining possibility, however unlikely it may seem, must be the truth...or something like that. I am assuming something illegal is going on here. Money has a funny way of creating power and corruption.

The question is...do players got UK because of Nike of because of Calipari? When the squid was ta Memphis he lifted a school that had been close to mid-major and made it into a powerhouse that played for the national title and after he left, it went back to anonymity.

If UK signs with. say, Under Armour, do you think top players would stop going to UK? How about if Calipari moves to a non-Nike school such as Indiana, or Nebraska or Notre Dame or Miami or UCLA. do you think that he would no longer get the recruits he does? I personally think that he would do about the same at UK under different sponsorship and he would continue to get top players at a other non-Nike schools.

The Pitino comments were also greatly exaggerated and only selected parts are oft quoted. Let's not forget that at the end of his statement he said:

"Pitino would like the NCAA to run summer camps so that rules are explained to recruits and coaches can watch all prospects. He blamed himself for not knowing enough about the current shoe company-AAU influence, but said it has made him wiser about how he recruits."

"As long as you do your homework, you're fine," Pitino said. "I didn't do my homework. ... We have to make sure we know that it doesn't matter to the kids; and those kids we want to go after."

Like drug dealers, Calipari knows what kids want and makes sure he provides them with just that. Can't really blame Calipari for staying in front of the trend and doing his homework, right?

For what it's worth, Memphis was an Adidas school under Squid. So he was able to "recruit" effectively with three stripes, also.

However, he has taken it to a whole new level w/ UK and the swoosh.

Carolina is the original Nike school having produced MJ himself. Is Roy getting fewer recruits than Consonaunts? If so, why?

@jaybate-1.0 Have no clue about Roy, but Capel & Strickland can be the go to guys at the others while the paws of K & Cal are naught. Who would be Roy's boy? Gotta speculation?

@JayHawkFanToo

Have said for decades now, and I quote myself, " If I didn't care how I made my family's money, I would probably be a drug dealer or own a liquor store."

And I'll take a drink too.

Hope I've not offended any buckets rats but that's JMO.

@globaljaybird @jaybate-1.0 took over Capone's moonshine business but he won't be offended

@VailHawk Rope business too? You are in Colorado right?

@globaljaybird yep yep!

@VailHawk One of my most fav little cigars are "Al Capone's" dipped in cognac. DDDAAAAAMMMMNNN they're sweet !! And pricey too @ about 75 cents each. & about the size of a reg cigarette. Guilty pleasures are great with Henessey. Sin tax is cheaper in Kansas, at least for now.

@VailHawk Sounded like a double affirmative-yep, yep !! Damn shame we can't get a new cash crop now that I've acreage.

@VailHawk

Technically North Carolina is a Jordan brand not a Nike, although the Jordan Brand is a subsidiary of Nike. The Jordan brand does not display the Nike swoosh but the Jordan jumpman instead.