🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Figured we needed a non Chukwu hypothetical speculation thread to pass the days until practice starts up for WUG

I was reading something on Iowa St's possible candidates for replacing Hoiberg. They are the assistant Otzelberger , Prohm of Murray St, Bryce Drew of Valparaiso, Brad Underwood of Stephen F Austin. I figure one of these 4 will probably get the job. I noticed the 3 coaches at different schools are all good offensive coaches so I'm guessing Iowa St wants to continue to score like they were with Hoiberg.

My question is though, do you believe Iowa St. is as big a threat now that he is gone? Will the new coach change their style to fit his needs or try and stick with the principles they have learned under Hoiberg?

To me I think their style of play enhanced them and without Hoiberg's coaching that its enough to assume they could take a step back with a new coach. I know they have a lot of experience coming back but if they are forced to learn a different system this off-season seems to me that Oklahoma becomes the biggest threat now.

Agree/Disagree?

@BeddieKU23

The two names I mentioned are Hornacek, currently coaching the Suns, and Fraschilla. The Suns missed the playoffs and many fans are not happy with that. If Thibodeau can be fired after the season the Bulls had, then just about any other coach is in jeopardy as well.

Jaybate mentioned that Perry could take an academic scholarship. What a cool way to help the team.

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@JayHawkFanToo

Hornacek declined to be contacted by Iowa St so I think that put those rumors to bed. He would have been their choice if he had choose to entertain it.

Horn won't talk to ISU. Murray State coach is the big rage for offense now days.

@wrwlumpy

Even the very best academic scholarship does not cover what an athletic scholarship does.

@BeddieKU23

Thanks. Good info.

610 sports radio just rumored @crimsonorblue22 's Greg Marsha" - interesting...

@globaljaybird read that! And the reason they stayed....... Family and friends, plus kochs upped the cash? Will it work again, same ole story, repeat?

http://www.kansas.com/sports/article18292034.html ↗

@globaljaybird also heard some kid made it up on twitter.

ISU's AD wants Otzelberger, the players want Otzelberger, the ISU President is the one that wants a big name. At this stage, Otzelberger makes the most sense for ISU on an interim basis at least for 2015-16. If he does a good job, Otzelberger deserves it full time, if he struggles, find a big name coach. It just really doesn't make any sense to bring in an outsider in June voluntarily.

ISU should still be very good next year almost no matter who coaches the on 2015-16. Beyond that is the question mark. ISU will be a threat to win the Big 12 in 2016, but another team getting almost zero hype that will be a top 10 team in 2015-16 is Oklahoma. Lon Kruger is a great coach and has revived the Oklahoma basketball program and made them a very good team.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Good post.

I think Otzelberger has the best opportunity to have a big season this year for ISU because most of the players already know him. If they bring in another coach it is just like replacing the entire roster with new players because communication will have to come from scratch.

Otzelberger knows enough to keep ISU competitive this year. They may take a minor step back without Fred, but it is hard to say what other dynamics might change also. Sometimes players really step up after a coach leaves because they develop a heck of a chip.

ISU has so many quality players.... hard to imagine them not right up there with us, even with Fred gone.

I think the other big threats will remain OU and UT. Lon is very capable... a great coach who really knows the game. I'm not sure about Shaka Khan at Texas. He'll need a year or two to adjust and I'm one of those who question if he is overrated.

WV will always be there, too. They seem more like the team who will throw a monkey wrench in the conference race at some point. Huggy Bear is a capable coach. I'm just not sure if he can keep up with recruiting to a football school like WV.

@JayHawkFanToo

Yes, but the marketing of his likeness consistent with the Obannon judgement might square it.:video_camera:

I mean why can't Perry form a 501c.3, like KUAD, and the Drake Group, and the NCAA, have formed, and take a nice salary as overhead for the corp and do a not for profit TV show syndicated to local TV stations around Kansas that donates syndication fees to Perry's scholarship fund for unusually bright high school ballers like himself?

Can you imagine the NCAA trying to stop him from doing that?

HOWLING!

Would THE DRAKE GROUP be champin' at the bit to advocate for him and against the NCAA, or what? :heavy_check_mark:

(NOTE: tongue is in cheek here, but maybe its not so far fetched after all.)

@jaybate-1.0

The Obannon ruling indicated that schools must pay for all the athlete expenses (which KU already does) and also ruled that college be permitted to place as much as $5,000 into a trust for each athlete per year of eligibility if his image or likeness is used to generate money, so no immediate money.

The verdict is being appealed and it might be years before it can be enforced...provided it prevails though all the appeals.

@JayHawkFanToo

Cool, then Perry could form the 501c.3 now and be a well heeled pro before the NCAA ever gets around deciding the appeals and whether to go back 5-10 years and look at Perry's 501.c3.

Oh, this is so fun. :+1:

I know, I know, its all just jesting.

@drgnslayr
I hope you are right about Shaka-I'd love to see him stumble.

Instead of taking the humble route when asked about KU's dominance in the conference he chose to fire a shot across our bow and bring up his VCU win.. That just put me off.

Of course, he didn't say anything that wasn't the truth, he just decided to be cocky. I hope he pays for that dearly, because if he delivers out of the gate he may quickly become obnoxious overnight, and the Big12"doesn't need a big ego spouting off all the time. Think how well Self, Kruger, Fred, etc handle themselves.

@Texas-Hawk-10

The key is who does the ISU stalker want?

I wouldn't go against his wishes. :neckbeard:

@globaljaybird

Marshall to ISU?

That is just TOO flipping weird.

What would be next?

Weber to WSU?

Then LB to KSU?

Then Snacks to SMU?

Help me, help me, help me, I think I'm going insane!!!!!!!!

@JayhawkRock78

Well...I don't believe the loss to VCU was due to his system as much as KU going frigid from the field; maybe looking past VCU and not concentrating on the game at hand?

@JayHawkFanToo

All those plus KU had played a Princeton the previous game against Richmond, and Self was big on guarding and chasing the Princeton in those days rather than switching. KU's legs were toast from Richmond's Princeton, then they hit Shaka's XTReme Conditioned team that Shaka schemed to run mostly lonnnnnnnnng cuts every possession. KU's legs gave out.

@jaybate-1.0

The Richmond game was not an issue and KU won by 20 points; Morningstar was the only player that played more than 30 minutes (32), 4 bench players played double minutes.

The VCU game was one of KU's worse shooting efforts ever:

• FG: 22-62 (35.5%)
• 3 points: 2-21 (9.5%)
• FT: 15-28 (53.6%)

Can you think of a game with worse numbers?

I have seen a bunch that Otzelberger is the favorite based on familiarity with the program. But no matter how much he knows the program he's not Fred Hoiberg. I wonder how in tune he is to how they ran their sets and such because no matter what its unlikely this guy can keep the exact system they were running without having Fred's playbook.

I do think we gained the slightest advantage with Fred leaving because he was the reason for making Iowa St a contender. They still have a good team with a lot of experience.

@Texas-Hawk-10

OU is going to be a preseason top 10 team with 4 starters back. The only question I have is how they replace Thomas & Booker. They have a few unproven bigs to try with Spangler and a few unhyped recruits to try and add to the rotation. How much better can Hield & Cousins get? The key for them is the PG who has never had a reliable outside shot.

@JayHawkFanToo

Sorry, guarding two Princetons in a row will usually wreck the shooting legs of a team the second game; that was largely what happened here. Shaka knew it and lengthened his cuts and KU just could not fight over screens and chase long cuts for the last 20 of 80 minutes in a 2 in 3 tourney and make shots. KU completely cracked cardio and the rim shrank.

The other killer was Shaka had a 6-9 260 big that ran the asses off the KU bigs and they cracked completely down the stretch.

The combo killed us.

Self learned his lesson too.

He never makes them chase, fight over screens and not switch off the first game of a two in three once conference starts. Second he massively increased cardio fitness of his team's after.

KU was relying too much on weight gain and depth, to muscle teams, and allowed the cardio to be less rigorous.

Two Princetons or Princeton like teams exposed their starters couldn't go hard 2 in 3.

It was the most classic case of inadequate conditioning being broken by superior conditioning, since the UCLA era.

Until they hire, the question is unanswerable.

But their stalker has to be monitored regardless!!!!! :bowtie:

Without a big name to recruit with, or a stack agreement, ISU is irrelevant in two years.

@JayHawkFanToo

the TCU debacle was eerly similar.

• FG: 18-61 (29.5%)
• 3pt: 3-22 (13.6%)
• FT: 16-23 (69.6%)

But as far as that VCU game goes, yes we were cold as humanly possible and Skeen had the game of his life.

@jaybate-1.0 is attempting to explain the most important question -- "why"? Losses happen for a reason. Wins happen for a reason. Four of our most dramatic losses happened for a reason -

1. TCU - This was all about the previous Oklahoma St. debacle. Self uncharacteristically blew his stack, infamously threw EJ under the bus, and that set the stage for this embarrassing defeat. It was obvious that this was a mental deal that led to the poor performance. Self continued to berating after the TCU game and then came to his senses after the next loss to OU, when he praised the teams effort and turned around the team's psyche. The thing about the TCU game was that it didn't cost us anything. It was just embarrassing. For anyone that doubts the impact a coach can have on a team psychologically, this game was lesson #1.

2. VCU - My view of VCU is the same as it was before the VCU game. I discussed how we would lose at kusports.com before it happened. We were out-athleted. The Brady/Reed discussions. I argued strongly during the season that EJ should play instead of both of them. EJ proved his worth in our title game run the next season, and EJ for 32 minutes in a game like the VCU game would have been good medicine. Further, I had argued for Releford over both Brady and Reed. He proved his value as well. In hindsight, wouldn't everyone, right now, like to turn back the clock and do what I suggest? And very importantly, guys shoot poorly when they are tired -- VCU ran, ran, and ran some more. This game was about personnel, and pace of play. This was the single most important loss in the Self era, aside from UK in the title game (which was a very well coached game by Self). The national title was there, with only Butler and UConn in the way. I firmly believe that if Self plays EJ over Brady the entire second half of the season, and inserts Releford for Reed when his ankle healed, we win the national title. EJ + Releford > Brady + Reed. Always was, always will be. The key was the prep ... I was not in favor of just air dropping those two into the game as starters. Self needed to anticipate this in advance, like we did at kusports.com, and get those guys ready for the tourney run with big minutes during the season. It was amazing how Releford and EJ were able to feed the post the next season to Withey and TRob, wasn't it? Both would not have compromised us in the tourney games prior to VCU, and both playing would have put us in a better position to beat VCU.

3. Stanford - Why? We know why. Self was badly outcoached. Why did Wiggins have a poor game? He said so -- guys were always in his face. Why did we miss famous "bunnies"? Stanford was big and in our face. We made no real adjustments. We let Wiggins stand around on the perimeter and get pinched. We just ran our stuff. Self also started and played an impotent Naadir Tharpe, when Frankamp should have been the starter for Stanford. He didn't pull that trigger, and it was part of the fatal dose of tourney poison. If the TCU was lesson #1 on the psychological impact a coach can have, this game was Exhibit A on how a top coach can be outcoached.

4. UNI - The "why" here was largely about coach Self's refusal to attack and play aggressively against UNI. Self has stated that he does not like to press because good teams can beat it. His strategy is that we will run our "stuff" and beat you. We all saw what happened when we finally did ratchet up the pressure, but it was too late. We let UNI dictate pace, just like Texas Tech did in Lubbock two years ago. It allowed an inferior team to play with, and stay with, a superior team. UNI was happy to play at a pedestrian pace. However, Collins did not play well -- and his poor play was not related to anything UNI was doing specifically, and there was not anything Self didn't do adjustment-wise (in my opinion) related to Collins.

In these four games, the "why" is the critical question. If you don't ask "why" as a coach, you don't improve. And, as a result, history will repeat itself.

@jaybate-1.0 ISU may become irrelevant on the national scene and also as a challenger for the Big XII title. KU has always had a problem winning at Hilton. I have watched or listened to someone for ISU going off for 30-40 points too many times. We seem to have better luck in other Big XII arenas.

@sfbahawk

We had plenty of success in Hilton until Hoiberg came along. The intensity of the series has picked up dramatically when he was here. It will be the same this year with their veteran squad but that will change when most of their players graduate after the coming year. It will be interesting to see if Morris goes pro with his seniors.

@HighEliteMajor

You could say to some extent that each of these losses are still lingering with KU.
TCU wins one freaking game and now everytime we go to Fort Worth we get to here about the Topeka YMCA debacle comments.

When we play Texas it will be about how Shaka shocked the world at VCU against us.

The UNI game still gets coverage to this day.