🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Just saw the top SG/combo guard in the 16 class will be visiting KU for Late Night.

I find it interesting that we are around in his recruitment. Most people have him staying local with Arkansas for which he has family connections or UK for which has recruited hard as well. We are 1 of his 4 official visits.

The question I have, is this like Harry Giles who's just using his free visits to see other schools while already knowing where he's going? I don't think I've ever seen a single thing published that said KU was a legit landing spot for him.
Arkansas has literally sent their whole team to his games, UK is well ya know. He's one of the best prospects in the class but why are these prospects using us for visits?? Unless someone knows something I don't..

@BeddieKU23 like Zimmerman!

Monk has spoken well of KU, but he's played it pretty tight as well. I think the hometown consensus will probably prove out, but I don't doubt that we have a real chance with this kid.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but KU is the only Adidas school on his list. I'm pretty sure everyone else is Nike. I'd say that bodes well for us making KU stock out from the bunch as well as being a premier blue blood program. He mentioned checking out Kentucky's dorms and facilities and being impressed. Now we have the opportunity to showcase our spanking new living quarters with the Debruce building going up too. Also font overlook Kentucky over recruiting his position with Rawle Alkins, Kobi Simmons, DeAron Fox, and others. Arkansas has had some negative PR lately with their players getting into trouble off the court. Arkansas is surely a mid to lower level team going into 2016 with UK, LSU, Alabama (Avery effect), Florida, and toss in another couple teams who project to be better. Which will most certainly insinuates Arkansas will have an absence of TV coverage and exposure. I'm sure Bill Self & Co. & Monk's affiliates have been in his ear about Wiggins & Oubre's Adidas deals as of late. Throw in playing at "The Phog", and all of our games are being televised. I think we have a pretty strong pitch moving forward with this guy. BUT the pessimist in me wouldn't be suprised a bit to see him wearing Nike at one of the other schools most likely UK or Arkansas. The power of SHOE CO. !!

Also did anyone notice that at last year's "Late Night in the Phog" Malik Monk was there sitting next to Marques Boldin. One more down from Malik on the other side was DeAron Fox. Malik and Bolden were both wearing Nike gear, but I wouldn't put to much stock in that.

@madmaxKU Arkansas is a not a mid to bottom level SEC team. Mike Anderson is a very good coach who's never had a losing season in 13 years as a head coach. Arkansas will probably be a top 25 team by the time the season's over just because of Anderson being a really good coach.

I also don't see any way KU lands Monk because KU doesn't have backcourt minutes available next season. KU figures to have Mason, Graham, Greene, Vick, and one of Selden/Svi back in 2016-17 which doesn't leave any starters minutes available for a OAD talent like Monk. The roster situation for KU just doesn't add up to KU landing any big time back court or wing prospects at this point and that's been the case for some time now. The battle for Monk is going to be a 2 horse race between the basically hometown Arkansas and Kentucky who figure to have an opening with Isaiah Briscoe being a likely OAD player.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Hey no offense to Arkansas last year. Anderson is a pretty nice coach no doubt. BUT they just lose their two best players/athletes Michael Qualls & Bobby Portis to the NBA. They also lost a couple of their next best players to graduation. Throw in the criminal forgery charges on former players and current player Jacorey Williams who was just dismissed from the team. I don't know about you @Texas-Hawk-10, but that doesn't look like a recipe for success THIS YEAR to build any kind of momentum on the court or with recruits. UK, LSU, Florida, Texas a&m, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Mississippi State with Ben Howland a much better coach than Anderson with top recruit Malik Newman and others, and throw in a couple other teams that might be better than Arkansas. I believe you are sorely mistaken "THIS YEAR."

Just my two cents... Svi is being listed as a late lottery - first rounder in 2016 NBA draft. Selden seems determined and poised to make the league this year based on his play in the WUG. Mason has a kid and could very well after a highly successful junior campaign decide to make some pro money for his family. Graham isn't a lock to be the next starter or anything like that yet. Greene is a tall SG/3 wing who doesn't project to be a primary ball handler for us. Vick said before he signed with us that he didn't expect to play much his first year to better prepare his body ect. for the following season. If the dominoes fall in a certain sequence we could most certainly use a super elite top ten guard with minutes available next season. You can't automatically assume the next guy on the depth chart will get the minutes for the following year. If that was the case Andrew White would have logged some substantial minutes. Even releford had to wait out his time to shine.

@madmaxKU That's a lot of what if's for your reality to play out. Here's some facts that support my opinion. Devonte Graham was slated to start in Korea before he got injured. Because KU isn't adding another guard between July and November, there's no reason to believe Graham won't be starting the rest of his time at KU since he's already earned a starting spot.

Frank Mason isn't leaving early because he won't be drafted in a spot where he would get a guaranteed contract. Even Sherron after his junior year was projected as a borderline 1st rounder and that was one of the best seasons by a KU PG in a very long time. Size matters and if you're under 6 feet tall (Mason is listed at 5-10 I believe), you're not going to be drafted very high.

As for Svi's draft projection, those were before Selden was named the best player in Korea playing the same position Svi plays. Svi doesn't appear to be a starter this year now because of what Selden did in Korea which will hurt his minutes which will in turn hurt his chances of being drafted in 2016.

Wayne Selden's emergence in Korea now means he will likely be swapped out with Svi once the mock draft projections are updated since most haven't been updated in a few months. Outside of Cheick Diallo, Wayne Selden is the next most likely player to go into the NBA draft in 2016.

There is no logical reason to believe KU will not have both Graham and Mason back next year which means there will not be starters minutes available for a OAD caliber player like Monk. Take away the hometown advantage of Arkansas and just look at projected rosters and KU is the worst fit of the 4 schools Monk is making official visits to.

@Texas-Hawk-10
Why is it illogical to think that Mason could put up a stud performance all year. If he does so, he could very likely be taken somewhere in the draft.. most likely second round. He has a kid who I'm sure he'd like to provide for. He wouldn't gain much by coming back for a senior year. I do hope he comes back for his senior year though.

Now to Graham... Graham is a 3 to 4 year player who hasn't as of up to this point been named a definitive starter by any means. @Texas-Hawk your opinion is that a consensus top 5-10 blue chip recruit who is already being mentioned as a lottery pick should be deterred from coming to KU because of Graham. He is most likely superior to Graham in every facet of the game except experience. Monk is most certainly an upgrade at the guard postion.

Now to Svi... Graham said in an interview that he was most impressed with the progression of Svi. He hit it harder in the weight room than anyone on the team during the off season. He started for us last year at the beginning of the season before being shelved for maturation for this year. He only needs to play around 20 minutes a game to still be chosen in the first round of the NBA draft. He could very well be gone after this season... that is a fact, Not opinion look at NBA mock drafts.

@madmaxKU

Self was asked about recruiting more guards, even though our big hole is in the post next year. Self replied that he will continue to recruit guards because anything could happen and we suddenly need guards. So Self feels like any or all of your ideas about guys leaving early COULD happen (or the negative possibility that someone gets badly injured). But that doesn't mean LIKELY to happen.

Personally, just my opinion, but I don't see much of a chance Mason or Graham will be benched for a stud guard coming in. That would be extremely risky regardless of the talent level. There is no knowledge as to how quickly a newbie elite guard will translate their skills to D1, learn Self ball, AND create chemistry with the team. So while there are elite guards out there that will surpass our current guards on strictly a talent comparison, that still doesn't mean one could come in and steal a starting spot away... especially from a senior or junior.

Mason and Graham have both shown steady improvements even over the course of one season. If they stay healthy there is no reason to think they won't make another leap over the next year. I still find it unlikely either of these guys enter the draft next year... but the ridiculous sports media will be jumping all over that idea the first time these guys post double-figure scoring this year... why? Because they think anyone scoring a few baskets should consider themselves NBA stock.

Svi... analysts project him to have NBA draft potential next year. Who knows? Certainly not these people. They have to find original content to keep the readers they have. Keeping readers and growing readership IS what they do for a living, not actually reporting facts. If I had a penny for every projection error they made, I would buy the Taj Mahal.

Truth is... no one knows where these players will be after this March. Anything can play out. Injuries... or what if we win a NC? That tends to induce more players into the draft.

@madmaxKU Where did I say Frank Mason can't/won't put up great numbers this year? All I said was that even with the numbers Sherron Collins put up as a junior (19 and 5) he was not a projected 1st round pick by many sites. Frank Mason is listed at the same height as Sherron (5-11) and isn't as good a player as Sherron. There's better odds of you winning the Powerball jackpot than of Mason declaring for the NBA draft after this season.

You're argument for Monk over Graham (who will start this year) is that talent trumps experience. Bill Self runs a complicated system and it takes time to learn all the nuances to it. This is why reigning AAC player of the year Nic Moore struggled in Korea despite loads of evidence that he is a very good player. Brady Morningstar started over Elijah Johnson and Josh Selby while he was an upperclassman. It takes time to learn Self's system so while Monk may have a higher ceiling than Graham, Graham would be the better player in Bill Self's system in 2016-17.

About Svi and his draft projection, there's only one credible site that still has him projected to even be in the 2016 draft and that's Draft Express. NBADraft.net had Svi as a late lottery until Selden's emergence at the 3 in Korea. Just remember, most improved doesn't mean best player. Svi was also always projected to be the player making the biggest strides this past year because he's now 18 and starting to fill out his frame. Prior to Korea, there absolutely was a lot of debate about Selden and Svi and who should start over who, but Selden's play ended that discussion and KU's starting line up this year appears like it's going be Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, and then Mickelson early on replaced by Diallo later in the season in a similar situation to Black/Embiid provided Diallo is cleared to play this year.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I wouldn't say that Graham will start over Svi or that Hunter will start over Diallo. Self can not have projected first round talent sliding out of the draft or he could miss out on future recruits. I would say that Self has already had some major backlash during his in home visits since Alexander went undrafted. Mark my words Self will play his future pro's from day 1 this year to keep his projected lotto picks from losing millions. These kids and their parents don't want their college choice to effect their future earnings. I hate to say it BUT every coach recruiting against Self is telling these kids and their families that playing for KU and Self could cost them millions. If HCBS doesn't start his future Draft picks from day one (to protect their future earnings) he will not land 1 five star recruit this season and he could potentially have the worst recruiting class during a year with a ton of departures at the end of the season.

Just because a guy isn't listed as a first rounder doesn't really mean a thing. He probably will never be listed that most notably as you mentioned because of his height. Players simply jump when they think and the coach think their image has peaked in college ball. Let's say Mason plays better than anyone imagines, why would he stick around for another year. If he isn't ever going to be a first rounder worth taking in scouts eyes, but is a definitive second rounder waiting to fall in the right teams lap. That's as good as it gets and you strike while the irons hot. Why stick around for another year if there is nothing left to prove and your game is ready to make the next step playing against better competition in the pros whether that be the NBA, D-League, or even overseas. Mason has a family to provide for and he clearly wants to make basketball his career in the very near future. Why risk injury to play another year for free if you have nothing left to prove in pro scouts eyes. I'm sure at the end of this season Self & company will relay the proper feedback necessary to make that determination. Even DeAron Fox mentioned the possibility of Mason turning pro after this year. Do you think he made that up or did Bill Self or someone on his staff infer that very possibility was in play.

Striking while the irons hot sounds good and all but a bachelors degree will be usefull after his D league career is over.

@madmaxKU

"Let’s say Mason plays better than anyone imagines, why would he stick around for another year."

I just don't see Mason peaking out his junior year. As good as he is now, he still can become infinitely better. And let's remember how much more challenging it is to play in the league versus college. He needs to get as close to his ceiling as possible if he hopes to stand a chance in the league. He is still a long, long ways from being NBA caliber. He'll have to be better at most things in order to beat out a bigger guard. High draft choices are reserved for picks that they feel have a strong chance of making the team and filling a need, or a pick because a trade deal is brewing or thought to be.

The one big chance I see him leaving early is if he brings home a NC. Then, he has nothing to come back for and he'll have premium interest in the positive if we win it all. I think that is the only result that surpasses what you said... playing better than anyone imagines.

Mason does have a child so that can always be under consideration if he has a great year. The last player who had that situation at PG for KU was good ol Tharpe. Different situation but he also tried to go pro after his Jr year after Self canned him. A child will always make you think twice about your decision.

I do think Mason can make the league, he doesn't have weight concerns that Collins did & I think Mason is a real athlete. Obviously his PG skills will have to keep evolving. He's definitely one of the best returning guards in the country & a bit underrated at this point from the media.

As far as Malik Monk is concerned I'm convinced he's just using KU & late night for a night out on the town type deal. Him & Giles get their free ride before deciding what they already know.

De'Aaron Fox has set up his free visit to KU for Late Night.

Is he taking his joy ride like the others or are we still in this race with a crowded back-court & others going after him now.

Self hasn't gotten his top PG target in how long now?

@BeddieKU23 guessing joy ride. Love to be wrong!

@madmaxKU

With all due respect, the chances of Mason (even with a great junior year) being drafted after his Junior year are minuscule. Even if he stays an extra year and does well, his size will be a huge obstacle to overcome. IMHO, after his Senior year he will be a second round pick or sign in as a free agent...but if any short player can do it, I would put my money on Mason.

@JayHawkFanToo Agreed. Mason's stature inhibits him from being drafted. He can play, no doubt about that! But, if he was 6'1 or 6'2 he'd be a first rounder, maybe lottery. There have been shorter guys in the NBA...see Spud Webb. Mason could absolutely play in the big leagues but he wont get drafted next year. If he makes it in, it'll be in 2 years as a free agent pick up, or he could go to Europe and do very very well for himself like Langford and Kaun and Miles etc.

@Lulufulu

Mason being small definitely helps us out. We may get a 3 year starter and one of the best to play the position ever at KU. If Ellis was not such a finesse talent, he'd be gone as well. Sometimes the best thing for this team is having some players that don't measure up to the NBA standard for their position.

@BeddieKU23

It's okay to have some guys that don't measure up, but you can't build your program around non-NBA talent if you want to win the big prize.

I love Frank and think he could certainly be the starting PG on a championship team. I think Perry can be a starter on a title team.

However, those guys need to be surrounded by at least two NBA caliber players to win a title. If Selden makes the leap we have all been waiting for, that's one. Diallo may be the second. Perhaps Bragg. But either way, there have to be 2 NBA caliber players to support our two very good college players for this team to win a title. If Selden or Diallo isn't up to the task, we probably fall short again come March.

Yeah I guess that's why recently Ty Lawson, Kemba Walker, Johnny Flynn, and Trey Burke were taken in the first round because they had that prototypical NBA height. Come on guys stop generalizing and deliver some better truth. Pretty pathetic to say Mason will never get drafted in the first or second round based on height alone. John Lucas 3, J.J. Barea, and the list goes on and on. Do your homework! ✌

Another one of Self's guards Dee Brown & Nate Robinson