Just saw the NCAA has dropped the hammer on Larry Brown & SMU. No postseason for them this year.
Brown gets suspended for 9 games
Scholarship reductions over the next few years.
Looks like former All-American Keith Frazier was at the center of the invetigation.
Is it too late for Nic Moore to come back to KU?? I know he can't but man he could have continued his bond with the Hawks this year..
Hmmm .. I would have thought this would have happened to Calipari, I mean, given his evilness and all.
Appeal, coach this season then retire. Then let Jank clean up the mess.
Larry back to the NBA?
@Crimsonorblue22 As much as I love Larry Brown and what he did for Kansas, I think he's got a checkered enough history of recruiting problems and we've dodged enough bullets over the past few seasons that I'd rather look elsewhere for Snacks' replacement (provided Snacks doesn't close on Bolden).
@konkeyDong
From what I've heard, Larry Brown never really enjoyed recruiting either. I'm guessing that's something Self would look for in a replacement for Howard.
@BeddieKU23 I was waiting for someone to post this topic. I think it sucks man! Larry Larry Larry, SMH. Thats just terrible, I mean here is a coach that we all know and love and he gets to go through his last years as a coach presumably under probation. Then, a slime ball kind of guy like coach calipari gets to parade around with the Pope and take advantage of the system with no repercussions? Its just not right.
Does this mean Larry is just as slimy as Cal is? After all he left KU and UCLA after penalties were handed out. Presumably he will do the same at SMU.
This is just not good. This story ↗ on the ESPN site is pretty damming...
I am particularly bothered by this part...
This is a man who reportedly used a kid who lived in his own Lawrence, Kansas, home, Mike Marshall, as his bagman at KU and whose infractions at Kansas were so egregious that when asked whether the Jayhawks were eligible for the death penalty (dealt, ironically, only to SMU in 1987), then-NCAA enforcement director David Berst replied blithely, "Kansas was on the bubble, so to speak.''
We have always been led to believe that the Askew issue and KU not hiring specialized counsel was the reason for the post-season ban, but maybe there was more to the story and we willingly looked the other way. If the comments above are true, it would definitely change my opinion of Coach Brown; he is the only coach to have caused all 3 schools he coached to get post-season bans...even Jerry Tarkanian did not do that and even the squid is smart enough to never have been named personally.
Once is a fluke, two coincidence but three is a trend...really, really disappointed..
@JayHawkFanToo I know! Hence my question above. But, I disagree on one point. Cal isn't smart enough, he is just slimy enough.
I saw that ESPN story too, and was hoping that account was defamatory. Although I couldn't find support for the "bagman" line, the committee apparently did consider the death penalty, which I never knew:
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/02/sports/ncaa-acts-against-kansas.html ↗
The SMU situation sucks for Moore & Kennedy,5th year seniors who now have nothing to play for this year.
I wanna ask how does SMU keep Brown after this? PR nightmare. This is now his 3rd offense, again showing to a pattern of character issues.
The NCAA had every right to come down hard on the Brown, but its never right to punish the players not affected..
We all know (I assume....) that Calipari was an assistant at KU once upon a time. What if the roles were reversed? If L.B. had been an assistant and was now Kentucky's head coach and Calipari was the continual job-hopper and was now at SMU? Would we feel the same way?
I admit, I've always kind of thought of Cal as a "slime ball" too, but I really don't know why. He's shown he can coach, can win a heck of a lot of basketball games. In the few interviews that I've personally watched, he seems personable enough and sounds intelligent. Is he a "slime ball" because we may be a tiny bit jealous?
I'm seriously just asking, what makes Cal worse than Larry Brown? Thanks.
@nuleafjhawk Can't they both be bad? I will always love what Larry Brown did for this program, but making KU nationally relevant again came at a high price. Brown cheated in order to get his program where he wanted to, and that can't be denied.
The only asterisk I'd put next to the 88 title run, however, is that it was indeed a genuine miracle. Whether or not there was dirty pool in attracting Danny Manning, that title wasn't won by assembling a juggernaut of ill-gotten talent and steam rolling the competition. It was won through actual heart and perseverance and a whole boatload of luck. But we didn't get there by cheating. The games were played honestly by players that deserved to be there.
The real concern to me with the Cal/Brown connection is, if one disciple of Larry Brown demonstrably tainted by his errant ways, are all of them? Is the apple of Bill Self hiding a rotten core behind its blotched-red facade?
Come on, everyone.
Am I the only one that saw this coming?
SMU will forever be under the NCAA microscope for possible infractions. It goes back to their death penalty levied on their football program. They were so flagrant with their payoffs and other infractions.
While we all love Larry (I definitely do).... Larry is on the books for challenging the NCAA's fascist approach and shoving many rules down everyone's throats that often don't have the interest of the student/athletes at heart.
Mixing Larry with SMU sent the NCAA into "high alert status" towards the situation.
I expected something to eventually happen. Larry is a great coach, but he doesn't operate his organization specifically to accommodate the pushy NCAA and their standards. He can't do it... why? Because he doesn't respect the NCAA and their rules. Can't say that I blame him and this is part of the reason why I so love Larry!
I guess I was a little blind-sighted by all this because I wasn't aware they were under investigation or that penalties were coming.
I knew that Frazier was suspended for academics but I wasn't aware that he became the center of the issues after that. I had read articles that they were excited to have him back to make a run in the NCAA tourney again.
The reports & the media onslaught following seem to cast this notion that he did something so terrible which was not the case.
He didn't do the kids work nor is there any indication he asked someone to do so. He says he wished he did more in hindsight, the same thing Paterno said after the Penn St debacle.
What was he really supposed to do more of?? He's not the kids parents nor academic advisor. I get it, the kid plays for him so in ways he's responsible but the penalties seem to be reaching, seem to be based on his prior issues & the effect of that is all the players not responsible are now the guinea pigs for another NCAA headache. Suspending him for the non-conference part of the season does diddly squat. Why isn't he suspended from coaching for the year if you really want to make a point. The NCAA tourney probation is also pointless.
"I guess I was a little blind-sighted by all this because I wasn’t aware they were under investigation or that penalties were coming."
I recall a long time ago, when the NCAA let Mustang football back into the picture.... I recall a statement from the NCAA basically saying, "consider yourself perpetually under investigation!" It was worded differently, but that was the meaning.
And Larry will always receive the maximum penalty for the minimum violation because of showing his lack of respect for the NCAA.
@drgnslayr Actually, I didnt see this coming at all. I mean I knew about LB's past 2 infractions but that was 25+ years ago. I honestly didnt think he would do wrong again, or at least get caught doing it.
He is one of the best coaches to sit on KU's bench but this is just disappointing. He should have acted like he was at KU still and the high moral responsibility that comes with being a KU basketball coach. Roy and Bill would sooner give their mom's to the mafia then cause KU and KU basketball any harm. At least thats what I think. Maybe Im being naive but I just think that KU is the best school to be a basketball fan of and to be a player at and to be a coach at and those things should put us at a higher moral standard than say...Kentucky?
Roy Williams and the UNC program being investigated for numerous academic infractions,. Started coaching his career at KU and took his main academic adviser at KU with him to UNC
The squid, the slimiest of all coaches. Started his career as an assistant at KU.
Larry Brown,, Now considered on of the worse violator of NCAA rules, Coached and got a National Title at KU.
How soon before all the stench starts wafting toward KU?
@JayHawkFanToo My fears exactly but I think it wont happen. Bill Self is a friggin Saint.
With Brown, it's just that he's only had three college head coaching jobs his entire career -- UCLA, KU, and SMU. And each time, sanctions.
We should continue to embrace Larry Brown as part of our storied history. He won us a national championship. That's a big deal -- since in our storied history, it's only happened three times. Meaning, we should not shy away from having him to AFH, and to campus events, as we've done since he's left.
Self's in charge right now. It's his program. I think everyone knows that.
Let's win a national championship this season.
Larry Brown and SMU may deserve what they got. Yet the NCAA is a joke. How long did the UNC cover up go on for? And the NCAA did nothing. Please, the NCAA is a joke.
If you ask me the NCAA should be investigated.
"How soon before all the stench starts wafting toward KU?"
I sense your fear on this. We have a lot to be thankful for. After our situation with Brown the administration at Kansas realized how ill-equipped they were for handling these situations and for general compliance. They resolved that by building a model compliance program... one that has received praise from the NCAA. So if we end up suffering a major hit, even the NCAA will suffer along with us because or compliance department has been an example for other universities on how to be responsible.
...and yet the programs was penalized under Coach Williams for allowing gifts to players after graduation, an arrangement that apparently was not kosher and the compliance department should have known. Keep in mind that the academic adviser at the center of the controversy at UNC is the one that worked at KU with Coach Williams. What are the chances that he will offer KU as a sacrificial lamb to abate sanctions at UNC? Apparently, there is a lot that goes on behind closed doors that were are not aware, case in point, all the shenanigans that went on with Coach Brown at KU that almost got KU the death penalty and none of us knew about it. Just sayin'
"Apparently, there is a lot that goes on behind closed doors that were are not aware,..."
That may be an understatement...
I think there is plenty of stuff going on, with or without a highly-rated compliance program. But what we have now going for us is strictly political. I'll take that because that is how our society works. There is nothing fair or just... politics rule.
@JayHawkFanToo "What are the chances that he will offer KU as a sacrificial lamb to abate sanctions at UNC?"
There's gotta be a statute of limitations-like rule or something within the NCAA rules -- hopefully.
A reasonable person would think so...but you never know...
If not, then maybe the NCAA can go back and review the numerous past violations at UK under...well, under essentially every coach, particularly Rupp, and at UCLA under St, John Wooden and Lavin and Brown and... :)
@JayHawkFanToo I'll look at that over the weekend.
