🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Dwight Coleby Tears his ACL ↗

No good. Everyone would've benefited from his year of practice.

Really bad news for him. On the other hand, if it was going to happen, it did at a time when he can take his time recovering with the help of Andrea and hopefully come back stronger and more careful. He can also take the time to get ahead in his school work and maybe leave with a Master's degree...

Out for the entire season.

Saw this late last night.

The good news is he wasn't going to play anyway but that bad news is everything else in between. No practice to develop his game, no pushing the current players in practice, no skill development.

I've been pretty high on him for next year but now its up in the air. I don't know how there is any silver lining to this when next year we will need him to be a rotation player, but were banking that he would take this year to enhance his game and his grasp in the system. He will basically be a freshman in terms of understanding Self's system whenever he is fully healthy again.

The dire need for Self to get impact bigs in recruiting just went up a whole lot.

The ACL -- an injury Kansas hoops has avoided.

Last ACL for KU men's hoops? Brandon Rush in 2007. Nine years ago. Pretty amazing.

@HighEliteMajor That ACL brought us a
National Championship.

If he cannot practice, can he at least attend practices? I mean, that way, he could learn and absorb, even if he could not actually practice.

@EdwordL I'm sure!

@EdwordL said:

If he cannot practice, can he at least attend practices? I mean, that way, he could learn and absorb, even if he could not actually practice.

I imagine that Coleby will keep his normal transfer redshirt and not apply for a medical redshirt. In that case he can do anything he was allowed to do before, health permitting. He could attend practices before, he can attend them now.

I don't see what a medical redshirt would buy him, since no matter what happens he will have two years of playing eligibility.

@EdwordL

Sure he can be there to watch, but its entirely different when your actually having to do what the coach is asking. It's a major setback for a staff that is hoping that his year off would give him a chance to become a more rounded player to contribute next year with all the departures we will have. He'll likely not be ready to do anything until next summer which negates almost everything they probably had planned for him.

Pressure to land an impact big just jumped through the roof.

@BeddieKU23 That pressure to land an immediate starting caliber big didn't change because Coleby isn't that tyle of player. Coleby is a back up at best type player at KU.

Marques Bolden is still KU's most important target, but the odds of Bolden coming to KU seem to go down every day now and if he doesn't commit at Late Night, he's probably not coming here at this point.

@Texas-Hawk-10

12 of the top 20 players have not signed and, much like last year, most will wait until the end of the season. Top players want to know where the other top players are going before making a decision. I would be surprise if KU signs anyone at Late Night.

@JayHawkFanToo Bolden is one of those kids who the longer he waits, the lower KU's odds for him continually get unless Self pulls Howard from that recruitment and puts Townsend on the Bolden recruitment.

Coleby's injury really isn't a huge blow in the grand scheme of things. He loses the opportunity to practice this season, but he will be healthy in time for off season work, so he should be able to work on things then. He will get to focus on the mental side of things this year, and he's already played D1, so he will come back next year knowing the schemes, and should be in shape, assuming that his rehab is complete sometime in late April or early May.

As @Texas-Hawk-10 said, Coleby wasn't really slated to be the starter, so the recruiting needs don't change. Coleby is there to replace Traylor and Mickelson, not to replace Ellis and Diallo (assuming Diallo is eventually ruled eligible).

@Texas-Hawk-10

Regardless of whether we think Coleby will be a starter, rotation player or backup his injury does us no good.

I think the pressure does go up because he's basically going to be the same player he was when he left Ole Miss. The staff was counting on him using this year to his & their advantage to not only get him comfortable with the system, but to further his post skills.

Next year we are looking at Bragg, Lucas & Coleby before any recruits/transfers join the fold. Lucas isn't a starter & from your viewpoint either is Coleby. So we have potentially 1 starter & 2 backups. The pressure to land Bolden or any Big with the potential to contribute from day 1 has gone up in my mind. I think the Staff signed Coleby to fight for a starting spot in case recruiting didn't work out.

What a bummer for this kid. Get a shot to play for a big time program, and now this. Sadly the clock his ticking for Coleby. In reality he may never put on a KU jersey.

I think that if we don't get a big man commitment after late night, it is a big deal. But a bigger deal if we don't get one at the early signing date in November.

We have clear openings in the post, Duke has already snagged a top 50 post player, UK has just gotten a commitment from Gabriel today, and UNC, MSU, OSU, Louisville, 'Cuse, UConn, UCLA, Indiana, etc. -- top programs -- all have commitments from various players.

In past years, we have always had commitments by the early signing date.

Of note, while @JayHawkFanToo is right, 12 of the top 20 haven't committed, 30 of the players ranked 21-60 have committed. Meaning there are only 10 still on the board ↗ in that range. So of the top 60, only 22 remain.

As of now, we're clearly lagging behind other top programs. There is no arguing that. It's where you finish, though, not how you start.

I am puzzled as to why a top post player wouldn't jump to commit here, given all factors.

I will preface my post by saying I have not personally had ACL so I do not have first hand experience but I do have friends that have, and after 2-3 months they all started doing light workouts and at six months they were pretty much at full strength. Here is a link ↗ with ACL recovery time frame...

I am confident that by the first part of next year, he will be doing light workout and getting used to the system. I don't believe he will sit an entire year and do nothing. Recovery from surgery is now considerably faster that it was 10 years ago,

@JayHawkFanToo You're exactly right. Athletes can be ready to go, many times, in even 4 months in extremely aggressive rehab cases. My son was full speed after 5 months. The key for the ACL is if there is other involvement - MCL or cartilage, which can extend recovery time a bit. But a non-contact ACL like this, 6 months he should be ready to go no problem. Just in time for the parade down Mass in April.

@BeddieKU23 Even if Coleby didn't tear his ACL and had the full year of practice, I still wouldn't expect him to start. He is a guy who's ceiling is comparable to Traylor or Lucas and is a career back up at a place like KU.

I've been of the opinion all along that KU needed 3 bigs with 1 ready to start right away and 1 that could come off the bench, and one developmental big.

Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels · 21h21 hours ago
Down to 32 top 100 players still available in Scout's top 100. This is quickest I can remember a class coming off the board.

KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0! KU with 0!

These stories are tough. Coleby is now presented with a real hurdle he'll have to go over.

But struggles often help young players grow up quicker... help them focus like they never have before... and work harder to come back stronger than before their injury. All we can do is hope for the best for him and hope he takes this very personal and remains upbeat and dead-eye focused.

Sometimes struggles work out for the best. That is the attitude players need to have when faced with them. We never would have won in '08 had Rush not gone down because he was gone for the league in '07 if he was healthy.

@JayHawkFanToo

Absolutely recovery is faster than it was even when B Rush had his.

He's probably hasn't had surgery yet so I would say he's what 3-4 months away from being cleared to do anything. I have a hard time thinking he's going to get any meaningful time in this season with the injury just occuring. It's going to be all rehab for a while.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I guess we just disagree about his ceiling. He's a physically gifted player already. It's different from Mickelson who needed a lot of work with Hudy to get where he is now. Coleby is just some skill development away from being a very good role player for this team. Because of his experience it definitely gave him an edge to any freshman coming in, but now I think that advantage has been negated. I think if Coleby is better than expected its a win-win for all.

@BeddieKU23 coleby was late getting here this summer because his passport was stolen. Missed out playing w/his national team and missed summer workouts.

@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah, Coleby has had a terrible summer. Poor guy! At least he's Jayhawk!!!

@BeddieKU23 said:

I guess we just disagree about his ceiling. He's a physically gifted player already. It's different from Mickelson who needed a lot of work with Hudy to get where he is now. Coleby is just some skill development away from being a very good role player for this team. Because of his experience it definitely gave him an edge to any freshman coming in, but now I think that advantage has been negated. I think if Coleby is better than expected its a win-win for all.

The reason I compare his ceiling to Lucas and Traylor is because that's what the advanced numbers say. Even without the injury, I still would've expected Coleby's numbers to dip because of the increase in the caliber of competition that KU plays. He's a guy that can contribute, but his production isn't what yoy want out of starting front court player, it's more what you would want out of a back up player.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Question, though, what did the advanced numbers say about Tarik Black?

What I mean is the dynamic of Kansas, better coaching, better surrounding cast, more targeted system to a players skills, could lift a player too. I was not too hip on Black, until he got out of his fouling abyss.

I recall looking at Black's stats -- his points per minute, rebounds per minute, blocks per minute and field goal percentage all got better in his senior year at Kansas vs. his junior year at Memphis.

But Coleby was an unranked, three star guy -- comparable to Traylor and Lucas in that regard. Black was appx. 50-60. Different to be sure from Coleby.

System is important, though, too. Didn't Ole Miss run a more perimeter based attack as opposed to the hi/lo we run?

The Black experience in my mind is an example that could lead to a different conclusion.

@HighEliteMajor

Excellent point. Tarik's number and off-court issues did not predict his performance at KU, He performed well above what I had expected but more importantly, his leadership was an unexpected and most welcomed bonus.

@Statmachine, @HighEliteMajor

The lower ranked players are going to start committing much earlier, because when the music stops, coaches will find a spot for a top 10 guy. They won't necessarily find a spot for a guy ranked 54. Plus, so long as you don't sign an LOI, you can always switch your commitment late if anything changes.

There's no benefit to high ranking guys signing early unless they know for sure where they want to go, otherwise its to their benefit to just keep the options open. There isn't a program in the country that wouldn't love to sign a top 20 player.

@justanotherfan

That certainly makes sense.

@dylans Yeah, it is bad news. But then we get Diallo on the practice team for sure. It sucks for Dwight. I hope he heals quick and gets stronger, comes back next season and makes an impact for us. But, we get Diallo! Even worst case scenario, he doesnt get to play in games, he practices with us and makes us better anyways, then my thinking is that in that situation he would come back to KU for at least one more year. He came to KU to play in games, not sit on the bench during them. He wants to show everyone he is the best in the '16 class. If he cant do that, he comes back his sophomore year and kills it, gets drafted #1 in 2017.

@HighEliteMajor said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 Question, though, what did the advanced numbers say about Tarik Black?

What I mean is the dynamic of Kansas, better coaching, better surrounding cast, more targeted system to a players skills, could lift a player too. I was not too hip on Black, until he got out of his fouling abyss.

I recall looking at Black's stats -- his points per minute, rebounds per minute, blocks per minute and field goal percentage all got better in his senior year at Kansas vs. his junior year at Memphis.

Here's the link to the stats I'm looking to compare these two:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/tarik-black-player-stats ↗

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/dwight-coleby-player-stats ↗

The numbers on both players show that Black was a much better scorer than Coleby is. I would also say based on the overall steals, blocks, and other defensive stats that Black was a superior defender than Coleby is. Coleby is probably the better FT shooter, his jump from 1st to 2nd year makes me wonder if he's more streaky than legitimately improved since he went from since his FT shooting improved by almost 30%. I'd want to wait until Coleby's next season before judging the FT shooting to see if Coleby stays anywhere near the 80% he shot last season of if he's more like Tim Duncan where you never know how good he is from year to year. Neither is/was a great rebounder for their position (lack of height is probably to blame for that).

Just looking at the numbers, they show that Tarik Black was the more productive player and had the higher ceiling with his two biggest drawbacks being that he's a terrible FT shooter and too aggressive on defense at times.

@Lulufulu I was just assuming Diallo would OAD this year after a national championship. I was in CYA mode after the mass exodus following such a win. Fox and Graham for Mason. Coleby for depth and consistency. 100% Greene for Svi. Unknown Stud 3 for Selden. Maker for Mickelson. Bolden for Diallo. Lightfoot for Traylor.

@Lulufulu I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but did you guys catch it when Diallo was asked how long he thinks he will be at KU and he responded with something like "I don't know, can't think about that now, maybe 4 years. I don't know." I know its very very very unlikely that he stays all four years especially when he sees the money he could make but the words came out of his mouth. So to now quote Lloyd Christmas.. "so you're saying theres a chance!?!" Haha, its fun to dream sometimes.

I think we have a "sink or swim" recruiting mentality these days.

Perhaps we could sign a couple of mid-elite bigs now, and then just forget about signing an elite big late... or do a great job and sign an elite or two late after already signing one or two mid-elites.

Or we sign no one early and go for broke on getting an elite big late and then filling in with bench backups at the very end. This means we sign an elite big or mildly possible to sign two, then sign some no-ranked or up to 3-star bench guys, like Traylor.

Problem is.... worst case scenario. We don't sign middle guys now and we don't sign elites later.

I would like to see us double what we did last year. Sign 2 guys now at Bragg's level, then sign a super elite late like another Diallo or maybe 2!

But seriously... we need to sign at least 2 mid-elites to elite bigs.

@Texas-Hawk-10

The comparison is valid, Coleby wasn't a highly rated kid out of HS.

The caliber of competition between KU & Ole Miss is a mute point. They both play in power conferences . KU may play a harder overall schedule at times but he's played against top teams & performed pretty well. He played great against Kentucky & Florida last year, games I watched him play & he definitely held his own.

If he can come in and avg around his Soph stats he should turn out ok come his Sr year. Self is high on him & I'm going to have confidence in that fact.

Remember Black was a starter for Memphis, Coleby was not.

We should be a very young team in the post if we can actually sign some guys. It will be nice to have another upperclassmen not named Landon on the team.

@HighEliteMajor

Coleby played in a perimeter based team. Ole Miss has been that way since Kennedy was the coach. He definitely could see a bump in a switch to a more post oriented offense. It's part of the reason the kid came here.

@drgnslayr

I think its gotten to that point of sink or swim. We are in trouble of missing out on everything this year.

Just got word that Bolden will be going to Duke's madness festivities. This will be his 3rd visit in the past month. Hate to be pessimistic at this point but we have to concede that unless a miracle happens this weekend we have lost our target and only priority for the class.

Herard visits this weekend, a guy who wouldn't be a factor his freshman year here. But at Miss St the way their roster is setup he'd probably start & get a chance to develop. It's likely he ends up in the SEC if he leaves KU this weekend without a verbal commitment.

Monk, Giles, Fox are all coming here for the freeloaders all expenses paid trip to see the sights and sounds. None of them are a serious contender to be on our roster next year.

Your post hope Azubuike has visisted Florida & NC St since KU got him on campus. The NC St visit really worries me because they had Dennis Smith, Adebayo & Alkins all on campus. That probably has shifted his recruitment instantly. NC St has a real chance of getting all 4, they have the roster space.

What's left?? Lightfoot came and went, Leaf visits next week, Allen has no official set as of yet to KU..

I really hate to be down but we are clearly bombing on the recruiting front right now. This isn't last year, or the year before or the year before that or whatever year Self started becoming the closer in the spring. We are setting up to be behind the 8-ball with basically every recruit we targeted.

@BeddieKU23

I believe we will land one elite post player to play with Bragg. What bothers me is right behind them... in the reserve role. I would have liked to think we could get at least two elite post players and maybe a solid 3-star or 4-star reserve. Unfortunately, our name isn't Duke or Kentucky.

But Self is the master late recruiter and always pulls a rabbit out of his hat (or an ace from under his sleeve).

I believe the issue of recruiting should be a good topic question for @Jesse-Newell to ask him. Why is it so difficult for Kansas to recruit?

It seems that we have a banner year every once in a while and the rest of the time we have to scrap very late in the game to salvage our recruiting year.

Look at everything we have to entice elite big men:

1. Will team up with experienced and quality perimeter players who know how to run the team and feed the post.

2. We run a hi/lo to showcase our post players.

3. We've put a boatload of players in the NBA.

4. We have one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in D1.

5. Bill Self will be a HOF coach eventually, and in the meantime he is capable of bumping the hype on players.

6. And seriously, the next two seasons we should have good runs in March with the leadership we will have.

@BeddieKU23 Tarik was a starter at Memphis for the majority of his time there, he didn't start coming off the bench until his junior year.

If you look at Coleby's game logs from last year, he had maybe 4-5 good games playing similar minutes to Traylor and Lucas so that's tge biggest reason why I think his ceiling is where it's at.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Right, Black began to lose favor with Memphis as his Jr year went on. He got the change of environment he needed.

Coleby could get the same change he needs, one that focuses on the inside more & there's a chance he gets an increased role. He played well against good competition, that's always a positive.

I understand everyone doesn't believe he was the sexy pick up & he definitely just snuck up on us this summer. There's a chance he's just a role player, or a chance Self can improve him enough to help us win some games.

@HighEliteMajor

Tar was playing for Josh Pastner--a proactively damaging coach to play for. Pastner actually coaches 'em down!

Was Colby playing for someone like Pastner, or just for a Mediocre coach?

It would influence what we should expect out of Colby.

@jaybate-1.0

On July 7, 2015, Austin Nichols announced his intention to transfer from Memphis. Nichols, the Tigers leading scorer and rebounder in 2014-15, was expected to lead the team in 2015-16 and was considered a likely first team all AAC player. Memphis initially denied Nichols' transfer request then released Nichiols with restrictions. Nichols' attorney made a public statement after the restrictions were made public calling the restrictions a "calculated effort by a dysfunctional staff to punish a player for taking a step to remove himself from a failing program."[1] Nichols' announcement followed the departure of 5 other scholarship players to transfer since August of 2014, including Dominic Woodson, Dominic Magee, Kuran Iverson, Nick King, and Pookie Powell. It also left Markel Crawford as the only remaining scholarship player from the Tigers' heralded 2013 recruiting class. The restrictions on Nichols' release were swiftly removed by Memphis Athletic Director Tom Bowen, and Nichols ultimately transferred to the University of Virginia (a team originally on the restricted list).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2518514-is-memphis-josh-pastner-on-hot-seat-after-losing-another-player-to-transfer ↗

@Crimsonorblue22

Memphis faces a real problem.

.

@Crimsonorblue22

I wonder if Josh will return to assisting Cal at UK? 😀

@drgnslayr

Valid points, recruiting has just changed so much even in the last year. I thought @jaybate-1.0 was losing it talking about shoe company this or shoe company that, but its really become rampant. This isn't a behind the scenes issue anymore, its happening right in front of us.

As far as the shoe war goes we are definitely getting the short end of the stick. Adidas is just the ugly stepchild in the shoe war. Under Armor is becoming more popular, maybe even more popular than Adidas is already. We have benefited from our relationship with them, but more and more it seems we are losing out on a larger pool of players because of our affiliation.

Why is it difficult to recruit to Kansas? Because its the Big-12 & it's in the middle of nowhere. Perception is key, KU has done a marvelous job to entice kids with the facilities & the dorms etc.. If we are the premiere basketball program in the conference we should be doing even more. Market the crap out of the university like UK, UNC, & Duke are perennially.

It could be the conference itself, with just 10 teams we have thinned the reach to other markets. I do believe if we had signed Louisville or some of the eastern based programs with solid history that we would benefit from that arrangement in recruiting. Marketability has decreased as we went back to 10 teams.

Whatever the reason may be we are definitely tanking on this years class so far. If we need to shake up our assistants then so be it. Bring Miles on or find another young coach affiliated. It's just hard to believe that we cast our net on all these players & not one of them seems to be generally interested in being a Jayhawk. What does that tell us???

@jaybate-1.0 Actually I think Mississippi's coach is pretty good. Good point. I've always thought of Pastner as a pretty good coach. He wins at least. Sounds like the other stuff might be a mess. Either way, I think Self and Kansas' system is an upgrade vs. what Coleby played at Mississippi. I think we should expect his "per minute" totals to get a bit better. That makes sense.

@BeddieKU23

My answer is to bring someone like Miles on. Go all out on player development.... and truthfully... these kids need it.

AAU teaches nothing but bad habits. HS, for the most part, doesn't even teach development to players.

All we have to do is separate us from the rest of the schools who all do the same thing... hire salesmen coaches and assistants that are good at "closing the deal."

Don't you really think there are enough elite players out there with smart parents that would go for the school that could best develop?

Granted, part of it is conference and media attention. East coast has an advantage, but Kentucky.... are they really east coast? They play in the hillbilly/redneck conference.

I still think we could dominate in recruiting with the right development. And we will be happy to stay with the players just beyond the elites.

Obviously, there are practice rules with coaches in attendance, but the players practice all year and are directed by coaches, just not in attendance. That is why we should always be very careful on who we take as walk-ons. These guys should understand basketball and perhaps desire a future in coaching.

Within a few years we should have a big reputation for development and it will stick, even with NBA scouts and management.

We can all complain about the Slick Cal's in the world, who recruit using Drake and whatever.... but we can't be effective just being another version of Cal. It is time to start doing the right thing for the kids. And the right thing is to give them a choice on where they want to school... development school or "shiny box" schools.

@drgnslayr

Miles is definitely a guy we need to consider for the future. He's got west coast ties, he's a KU alum & more importantly he's young & will be able to relate to kids on the recruiting trail.

Other than snacks, our assistants are not getting any younger & with the growing discontent for snacks ability to recruit & develop players is something we must consider in the next couple years.

@BeddieKU23 said:

Other than snacks, our assistants are not getting any younger

Snacks is getting younger? That's amazing. j/k. No malice.

In seriousness though, I think Miles would be a great addition to the staff at some point. He has a great understanding of the game, he's played professionally in Europe, was a high level college player and has potential as a recruiter.

Bolden seem to be Duke lean at this time and so is Harry Giles. What are the chances of Duke getting both of them? If KU does not get either one, what are Snacks chances of staying at KU?

@JayHawkFanToo

One would have to question Selfs decision to keep him on staff if he can't land a single recruit this year. That would put him with 0 for this current class and our freshmen guys.