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Listening to some media sessions with Bill Self, he talks about playing Perry at the 3 some. We know he wants Devonte and Frank out there together at times. He talked about our bigs all getting 12-16 minutes a game unless one really separates themselves and being totally interchangeable at the 4 and 5 spots mostly. He also talked about our wing defense and said it was terrible in the exhibition (Selden?) He never said the name Wayne or mention him at all by name in a whole segment of one talk.

Where does that leave Selden?

I watched the World University games and Selden played great, but he really did not shoot a whole lot better overall percentage wise then he ever has..

Is he in the doghouse? Does Coach Self not trust him anymore? Is he dead to Coach?

To me Selden reminds me of Elijah Johnson, just could not turn that corner in their development for some reason.

He has been playing a few years now and Self talks about not having enough ball handlers out there, now terrible wing defense. So Selden is not a ball handler, not playing defense. Streaky shooter..

All this is ignoring Diallo exists..

Devonte, Frank, Perry, Bragg/Traylor, Hunter/Lucas?

Yes please. Go big Self! (Frank to my eyes is really big)

Traylor and Bragg are very athletic, Hunter would do fine especially at the 5.

Self also said Perry is one of the quicker guys on the team so him at the 3 is not a stretch.

Subs for 1, 2, and 3 spots would not really matter if you kept Devonte or Frank out there with them.

This should not be a team that will fold or get scared.

I am rooting for Selden! If he does turn the corner and the light comes on more for Svi and Diallo can play, it should be a deep deep run in the tourney!!

Selden gets an absolute pass because of the ankle injury, if it is actually been put out there as a fact by KU Athletics, WHY wouldnt Jayhawk Nation take it seriously? Its ok to give our own soldier (Wayne) the benefit of the doubt.

I recall Selden getting blown by, but Greene was worse. Think about it: Self cant be calling out Wayne in the same few days we know Wayne's ankle is hurt. Greene had twice as many blowbys!!!!

To all those KU fans who lament Greene not getting mpg, I'd ask: do you know, after 13 seasons, who our head coach is? Do you have any idea what his defensive requirements are?

Look, you cant have it both ways: cry for more mpg for Greene, then bawl like a goat when we get another 2nd round Tourney exit, because our "D" couldnt stop a mid-major from scoring on us when it matterred most.

WSU's D looked rock solid the final 3/4ths of their exhib game: hate to say it, their "veteran" D looked better than KU's "veteran" D.

You know its not the coaching philosophy, as Marshall & Self preach the same things, almost to a tee. Its the personnel.

And did someone make the mistake of mentioning "Frankamp" again? God, why? He had the worst 3% on the team. And those 3 x 3s he hit vs Stanford were absolutely meaningless, now werent they? Lets be clear: KU had NO heroics vs Stanford, by definition...we lost. There literally was NO KU "hero". Same vs Syracuse natl champ game: neither Collison nor Langford met any definition of hero.

Back to Wayne, even as a frosh, when healthy, he is a good defender. Think of the Duke game in Madison Sq Garden. Him, Wiggs, Frank Mason.

@ralster BG never sets screens for his teammates either. Watch. If he worked half as hard as Phil forte he could get a lot of shots off, of course forte works really hard on the defensive end too.

Actual KU Heroes: Mario Chalmers, Sherron Collins, Brandon Rush, Darrell Arthur and every kid on that 08 team that busted his ass on both ends of the court.

Honorable mention to the '12 team of Thomas Robinson/Tyshawn Taylor/EJ/Releford...and their never-say-die toughness!

The 2015-16 Jayhawks have a LOT to prove. At least they have experience & a toolkit...do they have heart????? Can Greene bend his knees? At all? If he cant, he can ride pine or transfer.

@Crimsonorblue22 Great observation...Phil Forte has 100% JerrodHaaseFactor (he never quits). OSU is lucky they got him. He would have been a perfect Self player. Now for grins compare 6ft Forte to 6ft Frankamp-- who would you pick?

@ralster that's where he'd be on my team. It's hard for me to understand why he doesn't work harder knowing that's what's holding him back.

@ralster no question, forte.

@Crimsonorblue22 said:

@ralster no question, forte.

I watched WSU, and with Rashard Kelly + that kid named Brown (both tall), and that quick athletic 6'1 "PG of the future" ( name begins with C ), I'm skeptical Frankamp will get many mpg. He cant play til January, I believe, which means their rotation may be set alrdy...

I dont wish Frankamp ill, its just that I dont see him favorably competing vs D1 bodies. Maybe then new rules will help him???

@ralster I've heard some time mid dec. gregggggg is oohing and ahhhing over the best shooter he's seen. Can he play D like baker and Fred? I'm guessing he'll move baker to 3 to get cf in there. I wonder if he had any punishment for his DUI?

Cf might do better against Missouri valley.

@ralster Ya, with the ankle, someone mentioned it could be a message to Greene and Svi to up their defensive game or their spots will be replaced by an extra big. I just hope Selden can take the next step, I like the guy. It just hard to trust him out there still for long periods, he could go 0-15 from the field..

On Ellis at the 3:

• Ellis will start and play most of his minutes at the 4

• Ellis at the 3, if it happens, will be 10 minutes a game

• Those 10 minutes will come from Greene / Svi, not Selden

• So we are talking about taking 10 minutes from Greene to give to Traylor.

Yawn.

This is mostly another way to motivate the wings and to give opposing coaches a bit more to think about.

Boy us fans get called out for overreacting to everything and anything, does anyone think Self is overreacting just a tad after 1 exhibition game.?

I understand the defense was poor, it would be unacceptable to any coach. Let's wait and see how the troops do tonight. Last week was a perfect example of trial and error. Less than stellar play contributed by poor practices before hand. Since the game, better execution in practice will lead to a more focused performance overall?

I also get that Perry at the 3 is good for his future, & could be good for the team in some situations. If that means Bragg gets onto the floor with Ellis & Mickelson I'm all for seeing what kind of possibility that brings. I'm not for the other lineup possibility bringing Lucas & Mari on the court with him.

What does this say about Wayne, Svi & Greene. He's clearly calling them all out. Get healthy Wayne and use this talk from your coach as motivation..

@BeddieKU23 I'm with you. If moving Perry to the 3 means more minutes for Bam Bam / Landen then I'm not at all interested. If it means Cheick is going to be cleared and we will have Cheick / Perry / Bragg in the game at the same time on occasions I'm up for that.

Selden and Greene are both less than 100% right now. Ellis playing the 3 is probably just a temporary thing with Selden and Greene being less than 100% and was more motivating towards Svi since he's the one without a legitimate reason for not playing well even though Euro's wings have the reputation of being disinterested in defense.

I heard it from the horse's mouth (Self)... Wayne hasn't played like Wayne since fall practice started. I think the belief is that Wayne is trying to rehab in two different areas... first... his ankle... second... his mind.

We might not see the same Wayne we saw in WUG play this season. Most likely he has to overcome the mental struggle he has over his ankle. Perhaps I'm one of the few in here that have gone down with severe injuries.... because I keep mentioning the mental rehab necessary and no one responds. Wayne is going to be "gun shy" on playing aggressive until he overcomes the mental side of his ankle injury. He's even reading books trying to help empower himself to play to his potential and not play defensive (trying not to get hurt again).

And Wayne is at a tough position to make that recovery. He is expected to drive the ball into a crowd and score (or create an assist). He just isn't up to it mentally (more than physically).

He was able to be the Wayne of our dreams in WUG because he had a long recovery period where he didn't practice all the time. So he was able to regain his health and hit the mental "reset" button. Now... he doesn't have that working for him this time. He has to learn to play through his injuries. This is going to be tough, but it is something Wayne has to learn to do if he wants to stand even a chance of one day signing a NBA contract. You are expected to play through the injuries and pain in the "No Boys Allowed" league.

I do not understand playing Ellis at the 3. This compromises the defense, as Perry does not have the lateral quickness to handle perimeter defense against a legit outside player. If Perry could do that, he should have been playing the 3 this entire time to avoid matching him up against the bigger, stronger inside players that consistently give him problems.

I would love to have Cheick, Perry and Carlton all on the floor at the same time. Unfortunately, I don't think their skillsets will allow that. I agree with @BeddieKU23 and @joeloveshawks that this should be used as a means to get our best players (Cheick, Perry, Carlton, Hunter) on the floor together, not as a means to get more minutes for fringe rotation guys. Unless Self has no confidence in Svi, Greene and Vick, there is no reason to use Perry at the 3.

Wouldn't it make more sense to play Bragg at the 3? I feel like Self is mainly trying to help Ellis's pro prospects since Marcus Morris is currently the starting 3 for the Pistons. But Bragg seems to have the more wing-friendly skillset and athleticism.

@justanotherfan Perry's D is better than the other 2 guys that played a wing last game. Perry is also a pretty good outside shooter.

@Crimsonorblue22

The defense was absolutely atrocious. Perry, at his best, will be serviceable, but I don't want him guarding a legit pro level talent wing for any length of time. Ultimately, this may mean that Vick emerges because nobody else can guard anybody, but that discussion is for another day. Perry can handle the wing against lesser teams, but against good teams, he will be exposed on that end.

Perry is a very good college player and certainly serviceable at the 4; however, his best chance in the NBA is playing SF since at PF he would be facing 6'-10, 250 lb. players and he would get killed.

HC Self values loyalty highly and probably feels he owes Perry to get it him at least partially prepared for the next level and this is the reason why he will see time at the 3. He is a good defender, quick enough...even more so now that is leaner and stronger and a decent outside shooter, and at the 3 he would be facing smaller players which can only help

@justanotherfan at least we know we have some options. I was shocked how poorly Svi played, hope it was a one game deal. Wayne's ankle will get better, BG was no surprise, actually I take that back. Was hoping the surgery fixed his not being able to bend muscle!

@JayHawkFanToo

"HC Self values loyalty highly and probably feels he owes Perry to get it him at least partially prepared for the next level and this is the reason why he will see time at the 3. "

This has possibilities of helping us recruit. Because... the basketball world perceives Kansas as a school to go to if you want to help Kansas... Kentucky is a school to go to if you want to help yourself. Yeah... off come the crimson-blue glasses. If you listen to Calipari talk it is all about his goal of seeing how many players he can put in the league. Part of that is getting the player to play at the position he has his best shot at in the league.

I think we have 19 guys in the league, second only to Kentucky at something like 21. Big difference here... most or all of those Kentucky players were highly ranked out of HS and should have made it to the pros even if they sat out a year. Whereas... pull out Wigs and JoJo, and maybe X... our guys weren't at that same level coming out of HS. Big difference.

However... "perception is king" and that is why Kentucky is always loaded.