🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Is that actually a possibility? To rest your starting point guard a couple minutes each half in a Big 12 Conf game?

Devonte needs a break every once in a while. Rediculous he has to play 40 min. Has no legs left at crunch time. He is our unquestioned leader, no doubt. We don’t have much back up pg talent on roster but playing him 40 min a night certainly doesn’t help him or the team.

Use the bench more Coach. Certainly can’t hurt playing the few backups we have a few more min per game. Give them some on the job training & more importantly, keep this 3 point dependent shooting team somewhat fresh for second half’s & stretch run of season.

OU has a back up point guard though. He played a lot when their starter went down last season with an injury.

KU doesn't have another PG on its team. We have a freshman who played the point in HS but hasn't been put into a situation to run the offense here. So maybe he's a PG capable of subbing for Devonte but apparently Self isn't too keen on switching Garrett to that role.

@BeddieKU23 We do have to rest DG. Have to. Can't play him 40 minutes to get peak performance. But the question is why we don't have another PG then on the roster that Self would be comfortable with?

@HighEliteMajor

I absolutely agree Graham should never be playing all 40 minutes. That tells you how little he trusts Newman and Garrett to fill in that role.

We all know we whiffed hard on PG recruits and then signed Charlie Moore to sit this year, and then we went and recruited over him in 2018 anyway. Seems like a baffling move. We'll have PG depth next season, yay! But today we are struggling in multiple area's, not just in the post.

What's the solution?

I would seriously consider playing Garrett at the PG position 5-8 minutes and get Graham's minutes down to a respectable 32-35 area. His defense has been well discussed, maybe he's able to disrupt the opposing teams flow for a few possessions each half. He seems to have the necessary quickness to stay with smaller guys. He has generally moved the ball well (although at times I feel he makes the safe play such as a quick pass to avoid making a mistake). He was aggressive taking the ball into the lane against Tech. It's not a perfect solution but it seems to be the only one we have on the team. There could also be a long term benefit to this move ala next season. All options should be on the table at this point

@BeddieKU23 I am a bit surprised that Newman isn't Self's answer. He obviously seems to handle the ball adequately from a dribbling standpoint. But Self likely has his reasons there, some of which we've all discussed. Garrett seems the natural guy to give DG a blow. I do fall in the camp that these guys are young, athletic, and can play and bounce back. I don't worry about lack of rest as it relates to the season. They only play twice a week. But I more focus on peak efficiency during the game. And rest during the game can make 33 minutes better than 40 minutes. All options, absolutely, should be on the table.

We’re we not all in on Trae and whiffed? That would have given the entire perimeter a minute shift. It is in the past now.

@HighEliteMajor

It is surprising Newman hasn't been the answer considering Self talked a good bit about Malik needing to be that "guy" to spell Graham in games before the season. I vaguely remember Self trying to do this in some of the non-conference games and seeing the result be a mixed bag at best. It often seemed like Graham was entering the game after one possession of seeing Newman initiating offense. We all know Self's reputation for the short leash on guys that don't do what he wants them to do. Malik might have already burned all his bridges there. What happens if DG gets in foul trouble or leg cramps, etc.. Who do we go to in that situation? Back to Malik who's barely been asked to run the team.

Peak Efficiency during a game is a very good point to make. Graham, Vick, Svi are all playing more minutes then they should be. Of course they were out of necessity and our post player debacle didn't help things. We have Sam now to help rest guys but as you mentioned after the Texas game Sam isn't trusted yet. I think he's getting a raw deal but our Coach doesn't see it that way right now..

@BeddieKU23 I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Cunliffe. He seems more than capable of being a real contributor and I suspect Self’s confidence in him will increase. He has done well defensively which is big starting point.

Makes me reflect on just how important it was having a really good backup PG last year (and how much that must have helped BIFM be so successful).

So many unforeseen holes for Self to fill this year to keep this boat chugging along in shark infested waters. But if there was anybody I'd want as the captain to do that, he'd be the one.

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Cunliffe. He seems more than capable of being a real contributor and I suspect Self’s confidence in him will increase. He has done well defensively which is big starting point.

Agreed he's looked eager to please in his limited minutes. It was big to see him hit that Corner 3. I've liked his activity level on defense. He certainly hasn't been exposed yet and because of that I think there is some intrigue there to see what he could do in extended minutes. I haven't seen anything so far that leads me to believe he shouldn't be getting some rotation minutes

@HighEliteMajor

Yes! I was starting a new Sam thread while you were typing your comment. I want to see more of what he can do.

Loving the pro-Sam comments. Until a couple of weeks ago, our experts here were assuring us that Cunliffe would contribute nothing this year. As @Jayballer54 constantly reminds us, players can improve and can surprise us.

Newman has spent most of his life playing the 2, and is in the process of moving to the 1. Honestly, Newman should have played the 1 for the scout team last year while he was sitting just to get those reps. You can't become a PG overnight. It takes time.

Cunliffe has played more 1 in his life than Newman has. The tough thing is that when you're the type of scorer that Newman is, you spend so much time being told to score for yourself, you have to learn how to just run the offense because you were the offense. Remember, Newman once went for over 70 in a HS game. Cunliffe can score, but has the advantage (in this case) that because he wasn't as gifted a scorer, he was expected to also initiate the offense, same as Garrett, same as Graham and Mason, and same as we will see with Grimes next year, who was a late bloomer as far as dynamic scoring goes. That makes a difference in how guys develop.

I hope he rests the whole game against us. Both times.

@BeddieKU23

Newman position at the next level,and much like Chalmers, will be PG. It is indeed surprising that he is not playing more PG, particularly when you factor in the need at that position. The only thing I can think is that he has shown to not be willing to share the ball when he should and try to take the ill advised shot or drive himself instead of passing to a better positioned player. The concern might be that with this frame of mind and as a PG he would become a veritable black hole where the ball would go to never be seen again.

@JayHawkFanToo

This is why he should have played PG all last year on the scout team. Form those habits in practice. Tell him he can't shoot for an entire scrimmage. Make him initiate the offense so that it becomes a part of his overall game. He's a scorer. He wouldn't have lost that over the course of a year. But he could have rounded his game out, and at the same time left us better equipped to handle the current season.

The whole starting five is now either playing through injuries, or dead legs, against opponents fresh as daisies. .

The Texas effort wrecked them. Too many trips and too much jumping. Then Tech jumped to a big lead and roughed them up big time as they tried a loooooong come back. Every started got hammered a number of times. Even Cunliffe pulled his first muscle against Tech. Vick could barely run by the end. Graham was probably seeing double a couple times.

Prior impressive shooting percentages are now likely unfeasible to sustain. This situation arises in years when Self is short handed. The difference this season is he has no bigs to get physical with, and his perimeter players are both fewer and more fragile than usual.

Self telegraphed same, when he tried to go to Bad Ball driving against Tech the second half. Alas, no one could even lift to the rim to get fouled.

Devonte—exhausted.

Malik—bad foot.

Vick—one dead leg, no more pop.

Svi—shows no apparent injury, but his cuts and driving are so uncoordinated, plus he’s a step slow on defense, so something has to be wrong.

None of these four super accurate outside shooters could hit the side of a barn. And they couldn’t lift on drives.

Self is in pickle. It will be a full month before other teams are as banged and as dead legged as KU is right now.

The weave and Bad Ball driving only work for guys losing their shooting legs, if those guys are strong enough to muscle into opponents at the finish. And the bigs have to be able to make FTs. That lets Doke out.

The logical answer is a deliberate, horizontal motion offense with screening; one that frees up shooters for uncontested looks that do not depend heavily on explosive playmaking.

Alas, KU as never run Knight’s motion offense.

But even the motion offense requires some athleticism and depth to play effectively.

Outside the box time.

Self should consider the Princeton. Yep. He needs an offence a no talent bench can run and keep from getting blown out, while the starters rest. The starters can mix the usual offense and the Princeton. The bench runs only the Princeton.

It’s time to start, unless the legs heal. If the legs don’t heal, this team’s three point game is going down a bumpy road to Hell during January against teams with fresh legs.

@jaybate-1.0

Lots of teams playing limited rotations like KU and they seem to be doing fine.

@JayHawkFanToo

Which elite program playing a comparable schedule with a comparable bench is doing it?

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@jaybate-1.0

Arizona State that just beat KU at AFH used a primary 6 man rotation and 2 other players that played a combined 12 minutes at that game and has played that rotation through the season to date. Lots of other programs with short rotation; you can do your own search.

@JayHawkFanToo

They don’t count.

Try again.

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@jaybate-1.0

The top 6 players for ASU played 188 minutes, the top 6 players for KU played 185 minutes. I guess the concept of primary rotation escapes you so I am done wasting my time.

@JayHawkFanToo

They don’t count.

Who else?

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ASU Colorado overtime

Who is Tad Boyle? hmm...another successful former KU player that is now coaching his azz off.

Down goes asu

Uh oh another bball darling failed. But the critics will play it down. The story will be that one bad loss won't hurt them, unless your KU. ASU is 0-2 in conference play? They are ranked 4? I don't get it.

MSU is looking more and more like the favorite this year. They are my non-KU pick. Izzo is my next favorite coach.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1.0

...so I am done wasting my time.

It’s always okay not to waste my time, or yours. If you can just remember that, things would go much smoother IMHO.

Rock Chalk!