🏀 KuBuckets Archive

I'll make this a general topic since it's not exclusively KU. As many know I follow the Jayhawks religiously, and the Badgers almost as religiously.

Which means I follow two teams with the two best offensive players/worst FT shooters in the country. Doke is well known here, Happ not quite as much, but a lot of you fans know of him.

Ethan is a multidimensional big who is leading his team in all three usual stats. Basically, he's a 20, 10 and 5 guy. He's also one of the top stealers in the country. While not an explosive player athletically, he has incredible footwork which leads to a dizzying array of reverses, baby hooks, scoops. He's likely an All American.

And both he and Doke have lost games for their team because of their FT woes.

Last night, I drove to Madison to watch the the Badgers take care of the hated gophers. A dreadful first half saw us score 14 points, while holding them to 29. Sat there for 9 minutes with zero badger baskets. 2nd half things started clicking and might very well have won if not for the Hack a Happ. Ethan went 1-7 down the stretch, 2 of which were 1+bonus situations so potentially 8 points were left on the floor by Ethan. (another teammate went 1-4 during the same stretch). 50 bucks for two tickets, 100 for hotel, 30 for dinner at Dotty Dumpling Dowry, more tourist dollars

Unlike Kansas, Gard kept Ethan in the game. We had it down to 2 points, gave up a bucket, Ethan gets fouled on purpose again and game over. Self Wednesday night pulled Doke. It's a little easier for Self because there's still an inside presence if Doke is out. Gard has no such luxury.

Very frustrating to watch. Partially because it changes the game. Your team has no chance to even get a play off. I don't necessarily blame the other coach either. I'd resort to the same strategy if I were coaching (I'll wait til you start laughing).

What needs to happen? Happ is a senior. Unfortunately it's not going to change. Doke still has another year to figure it out, but how? How should these coaches strategize to give their teams the best chance to win? I'm at a loss. (50 bucks for two tickets, 100 for hotel, 30 for dinner at Dotty Dumpling Dowry, more tourist dollars today and I'm frustrated that I didn't get more bang for my buck!)

@wissox I think we are going to see a disappearance of the woeful FT-shooting big man. And I do think it's on the coaches to take them out down the stretch. It's what it is. If your starting PG couldn't ball handle well under pressure and the other team starts to press wouldnt you put the ball in a guys hands that can protect the rock? Doke or Happ don't have to be in the game. Teams need to be multidimensional.

I do wonder if teams should be disallowed to foul off-ball.

Refs could call the fouls what they are: intentional. 2 shots get the ball back.

For a team like Wisconsin that runs its offense through Happ, it makes it tough because the intentional foul goes away if you foul Happ whenever he touches the ball, as @DanR suggests the officials should call. If you noticed OU the other night, they only fouled Doke when he had the ball. They did not foul him away from the ball, so you couldn't call it intentional. Last year, Kruger did the same thing, which resulted in Doke standing in the corner on offense for a stretch.

The best way to remedy that is to be able to go somewhere else for offense. As @wissox points out, that is tough for Wisconsin, but you have to effectively take the ball out of Happ's hands and have someone else that can go get you points down the stretch. It would be foolish to let Happ (or Doke) beat you inside when they likely cannot beat you from the FT line.

Every team will have to have a guy that they can run the offense through down the stretch that is a solid FT shooter at worst (65% is enough to prevent automatic fouls). Anything higher definitely takes that off the table.

They should just make it so any fouls inside of the last 5 minutes are 1 free throw and the ball back. I genuinely hate the last 4 minutes of basketball games.

@Kcmatt7 I despise it as well, a free throw contest for the last 5 minutes isn’t what should determine a basketball game. There are times I wish Dok would use his elbows Aldrich style to clear room. They may think twice about fouling him if he’s the one dishing the punishment.

One added difficulty I forgot to mention is the similar arcs Vick’s season has gone with the Badgers pg D’Mitrik Trice. Through about five games they were 1-2 in 3%. Like Vick Trice has cooled off considerably as has his decision making. This has increased the pressure on Happ and its why Sconnie has lost three of its last four games.

@approxinfinity Off ball fouling should be a judgment call as obviously sometimes it clearly isn't intentional.

The hacking strategy late game needs to go. I like @kcmatt7 s approach. In the last couple minutes award a free throw and the ball tbe the team that was fouled. Maybe just reset the shot clock to 25 seconds so as not to punish the d too much. On the flip side 08 wouldn’t have happened. Hmm

dylans said:

The hacking strategy late game needs to go. I like @kcmatt7 s approach. In the last couple minutes award a free throw and the ball tbe the team that was fouled. Maybe just reset the shot clock to 25 seconds so as not to punish the d too much. On the flip side 08 wouldn’t have happened. Hmm

One solution out there is the Elam Ending ↗

Basically, the Elam Ending turns the clock off at the under 4 timeout and sets the required final score - seven points added to the total of the team that is ahead. If the score is 72-70, the score to win is 79. First team to get to 79 wins. In blowouts, it makes it a fairly easy calculation as well. If you're up 82-58 at the under 4 timeout, winning score is 89. True, the losing team could outscore the winning team 31-6 or better, but its doubtful.

At that point, you can't intentionally foul, because those FTs move the team closer to that final score, even if they are only making one at a time. Unless you are sure a shooter is so bad that they are likely to miss both, it's too great a risk because you need stops, not just misses while the clock is not running.

They used the Elam Ending in The Basketball Tournament this summer. It seemed to work pretty well in the games I watched. The flow of the game remained unbroken because teams that were behind had to focus on not fouling, while teams that were ahead had no incentive to stall their offense since they needed to still score those seven points. Instead, teams that were ahead were still aggressively attacking the basket and looking for fast break chances (after all, a couple of layups during the Elam Ending puts the goal that much closer). And teams that were behind weren't always just desperately chucking up threes, as they had no clock to worry about if their defense was solid and they could keep scoring consistently.

@justanotherfan I think that would provide better basketball at the end of games, but nothing is better than a buzzer beater as far as a spectacle goes. I like keeping the clock. Just make it so fouling isn't advantageous. 1 free throw and the ball.

@Kcmatt7

I thought the Elam Ending would reduce the drama, but it actually makes things even more dramatic in some ways. There's always a game winning shot with the Elam Ending because there's always a shot that gets you to the point total.

I was watching TBT this summer and one of the teams was up 3 or 4 points playing the Elam Ending. They were 3 points away from winning, and a guy hit a three in the corner to end it. With a clock, that guy never takes that shot and instead gets fouled and heads to the line. But with the Elam Ending, he takes that shot because its a potential game winner.

@justanotherfan I heard a podcast about that several years ago. Interesting concept. I guess the only part of it I don't really care for is the fact that some of the thrilling comebacks that occur, i.e. 2008 as was mentioned, probably don't occur.

Also, Poke a Doke/Hack a Happ might still be a useful strategy because you guess there's less chance of our team scoring two points every time down the floor. If we're losing 62-60 and 63 is the threshold, hack Doke still makes sense. Keeping the other team from shooting a 3 by fouling also becomes a strategy because giving up 1-2 points means the team with 62 comes down the floor and just needs a bucket.

Intentionally missing a FT also might come into play. Now it's 62-61 and Doke makes the first by a miracle. Miss the 2nd on purpose and maybe we strategize how to miss, get an offensive rebound.