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Loved hearing that Self is looking at 5-guard lineups. Granted.. I know he has to consider maybe not having a big that will truly gel with this bunch, plus maybe foul trouble and minus Silvio out of the equation.

We have the potential to run 5 guards and still have height out there. Garrett has already proven that you don't have to be too big to guard the post.

I'll visualize this. Look at a graphic of a basketball court. Shade in area for each player where they are a threat on the floor. With 5 guards, hopefully they all have some potential from trey, they should completely darken the offensive end of the court. You don't get that with guys like Big Mac... or the now legendary Doke.

I've always looked at our offense where we take big guys out on the perimeter who can't shoot the long ball and set high ball screens. What a waste. I get the idea that we are trying to develop a mismatch, but how often do our guys burn the big defender off the dribble? Right... Meanwhile... their big plays off the screen and guards most of the paint, eliminating our chance of drives as their guard goes above the ball screen. This isn't the NBA. But with 5 guards... chances are our opponents still play their bigs. Pick and rolls, pick and pops, double screens, pick and dribble drive... attack attack attack. Remove all the slow guys and up the tempo. Run. Full court offense. Closer to some NBA offense, maybe a bit less size, but huge potential.

So get 5 race horses who can all be a threat from trey or driving and finishing. How can any D1 team guard that? Run all kinds of motion... unstoppable.

We definitely have the personnel to run 5 out. Wonder who'd be the 5 in those looks. Could be anyone

5 guard line-up, Marcus Morris and Perry Ellis will both play the 3. Dedric is the best passer we've ever had and Grimes is as good as any guard we've ever had here.

@BeddieKU23 Tristan?

@BeddieKU23 said in Self flips to x-axis ball in AFH!:

We definitely have the personnel to run 5 out. Wonder who'd be the 5 in those looks. Could be anyone

KU has 6 guards total on the roster and if we see Garrett or Ochai at the 5, then KU is dealing with major foul issues or injuries to Dave and Mitch.

If Self's referring to having a stretch 4 like Tristan, Wilson, or TGF at the 5 at times, that's not a 5 guard line up.

@Texas-Hawk-10 pretty sure he is. He did refer to having Josh Jackson at the 4 as being a 4 guard lineup, I didn't ever think he was a SG, really an SF. Maybe that's a bad example. But yeah, I think all he really cares about here is whether theyre not a traditional Center at the 5, and probably specifically can shoot the 3.

@approxinfinity Villanova type of team. That can’t be a bad medicine.

@twhalen :hundred_points: pretty sure Jay Wright is on Bill Selfs very short list of coaches he looks at for inspiration.

I think we've reached that point in time where we truly call it "positionless basketball." Self talks about it. That impresses me because I believe he has a feel for the direction basketball is going. Sometimes I think it is easier for us old timers to assess where basketball has come from. When I was young the game was all about positions and you recruited to the expectation of the position no matter how bad you had to recruit. Spin forward to today, and most coaches try to find ways of getting minutes to their best players, even if it doesn't fit into the traditional positions. Self definitely knows this.

I'm thinking to myself right now... "what defines a guard?"

I think I'll look at it from two perspectives; guard-like attributes and big man attributes.

Guard-like attributes - obviously first, ball handling ability... ability to face pressure (including double-team), ability to go where ever you want to go, change direction, crossover, dribble drive. Seeing the game is important... being able to setup other players, run offense (point guard skills), proficiency at the pass, low turnovers, high assists. Shoot the ball, mid range to the long ball. Finish drives to the rim. Speed. Defend the drive.

Big man attributes - finish in the low post, back to the basket, rebound, defend bigs well, seal off, hold ground, block shots. Have size... height, girth. Play above the rim.

For any player to make it on a Jayhawk team he has to have some of these qualities. Most players will have some attributes from both of these groups. Usually, one side will be dominant. And one thing is for sure, a player has to have a certain level of ball handling to be considered a guard.

I see several players on our current roster I could tag with either position... so for the sake of creating hype, it works well for me to call it "an all guard lineup" or "4-guard lineup." Some of these lineups might lack girth, but many will have height regardless what we call it.

The NBA has had plenty of bigs that can be called guards, from early on with Magic Johnson, who always was considered a guard, to Kevin Durant, who might be considered a forward but usually plays like a guard.

@drgnslayr

Really good post btw. Self definitely wants "positionless basketball" when it comes to his defense. It's important to his defense that his big man have the ability to switch late in shot clock or guard the pick and roll.

The all guard lineup definitely has potential if he has the right guys in the right spots. Self could throw out Garrett, Braun, Thompson, Agbaji, Grant-Foster, Wilson & Enaruna in some fashion, all perimeter type players from 6'5 to 6'8. No other team in the country has 7 guys with that much size.

I don't think we'll start any games with 5 guards this year unless Dave gets hurt.

A lineup with Garrett, Braun, Thompson and Grant-Foster has four guys that did a lot of ball handling in their careers up to this point, but have also all played on the wing, so they can easily switch in and out of those roles. Agbaji, Enaruna and Wilson with those groups seems like a pretty nice fit. Agbaji in particular could allow you to switch everything (Enaruna and Wilson may not have the agility to handle guards defensively).

@BeddieKU23

We know Self always wants to go M2M... so he's a matchup-style coach. I can see us playing guys I qualify as 5 guards when Self likes the matchups. As @approxinfinity stated... I question if Self ever starts 5 guards (this year). I don't see how we avoid playing all guards sometimes.

@drgnslayr

I expect we see the 5 guard look out of necessity. Self has too many mouths to feed on the perimeter and only 2 big's that have experience. That creates a situation where you have to be creative and try new things.

I think the most interesting part of running 5 guards is seeing what plays Self can run out of it. I would imagine it would be some new stuff we've never seen when you don't have a big your scheming for angles inside.

This year the Big-12 has some real quality bigs so KU is going to have its work cut out guarding some teams this season if they have to go 5 out.

@drgnslayr I think it's a matter of loyalty. Self knows to attract the best bigs he has to start them as upperclassmen. He won't get another Udoke or Dave if he doesn't.

I really wish Self would bring in someone from like the Rockets or Warriors as a strategist for this particular roster.

We have an NBA roster this year. We have 6 guards/wings that are 6'5 or taller, all of whom should be getting PT. 7 if you put Wilson in that mix (I don't personally from what we saw last year). But Wilson is at least a modern NBA 4-man.

Then you have three rim-runner centers to rotate and their job is to only shoot layups.

It is time to embrace the three and pretend the shot clock is 12 seconds. It is time to put up 70 shots a game. If you are only a 7-man rotation, good luck. We are going to run you out of the gym. We have 11 guys who can play. Our three bigs are rotated like it's hockey. Our mission is to make a Roy Williams fast break look slow. We will get turnovers. We will get easy layups. We will get wide open threes. And we will shoot everything with the confidence of James Harden. We may have a game or two where we are cold and get down 15. But this is the NBA baby, that lead can disappear in 3 minutes of game time.

Of course I don't expect Self to do this. Although to his credit he did quite a bit of it the FF year. His problem was he couldn't run. We didn't have enough bodies. We had to pick and choose when to run. This year, you have the bodies...

@Kcmatt7 Please don't ever ask for the Mike D'Antoni system at KU. It's not a championship winning formula at any level. It also doesn't fit the strengths of this roster because KU is not an elite shooting team and KU doesn't have the rebounding to play that small for more than short stretches.

This team is set up to drive, draw fouls or kick out for an open 3, and play lockdown defense.

This team is set up to drive, draw fouls or kick out for an open 3, and play lockdown defense.

So, the Mike D'Antoni system? lol

@Kcmatt7 haha

@Kcmatt7

I like the idea of Self paying closer attention to tempo this year. I like the way you think... use up all those legs we have on the floor and bench. So few (if any) competitors can run that much quality for 40 minutes of basketball.

But I think that goes against the grain of Self's nature. Defense is where Self is at (though he has really been drawing up some good offense with some recent teams). And if we became so fast paced that even Roy's teams couldn't keep up we would sacrifice defense. In fact, we would have to learn a different style of defense to coordinate with the faster pace we would probably get our opponents playing.

I'd settle for something in the middle. I don't know why, but over the past years we have basically abandoned running fast breaks. When I grew up playing ball... we were taught that fast breaks were the reward for playing good defense. When we stole balls or ripped down good rebounds, we looked for fast outlet passing for runouts. And a runout doesn't mean we have someone ahead of the defenders... usually it means a 1 on 1, 2 on 2, or even 3 on 3. You have to coach your guys into open court basketball scoring. Attack the rim and score or get fouled or both.

"This team is set up to drive, draw fouls or kick out for an open 3, and play lockdown defense."

@Texas-Hawk-10 did an excellent job describing this team. I'm okay with it, but would like to see us learn to vary our tempo. Good teams learn that and don't lose. Find the tempo you like and force the other team to play your tempo.

I'd also like to see us use full and half court pressing. I'll never understand why we don't put time in on learning to press, especially since Self emphasizes defense. This is a tool that has incredible potential to keep opposing teams from ever getting into their style of offense. It's a great way to help control tempo and speed up the game.

I don't want to start the season harping about what I'd like to see Self do... he has changed in many areas and grown as a coach. The greats will do that and he is becoming a great in my book!

@Kcmatt7 said in Self flips to x-axis ball in AFH!:

This team is set up to drive, draw fouls or kick out for an open 3, and play lockdown defense.

So, the Mike D'Antoni system? lol

Nope, because Self isn't going to run much iso except for the end of half. This team is suited for pick and roll, screen and roll, and pick and pop which isn't D'Antoni ball.

I must have dreamt the years where he had Amari and Nash running pick and roll and pick and pop. Almost exclusively...

But his whole thing was still 7 seconds or less. Which is more the point I'm trying to get to. An explosive offense that basically either shoots layups or threes and gets up and down the court as fast as possible.

If DDot was back, this team could be a 7 seconds or less type squad. Garrett is good, but he is a different type of PG. That is just not his style of play, and would be a mistake to try and shoehorn him into that role.

@justanotherfan At least people this year aren't freaking out about Garrett doing nothing in the scrimmage. He is much better in a structured game environment.

I though Garrett proved himself last year. No need to worry about him. Just get the ball up the court and play D.

@Kcmatt7 said in Self flips to x-axis ball in AFH!:

I though Garrett proved himself last year. No need to worry about him. Just get the ball up the court and play D.

If he improves his trey shot to mid 30's & FT shooting to 70 or above I'll take his stat line any day.

I know Marcus is capable of handling the ball. What I don't know is how well he sees the game from the perspective of a PG and then acts on it. Does he know how to create offense? As good as he is, I'm wondering if he will be able to excel at PG within one year. Dot was just coming into a good flow and then was gone.