🏀 KuBuckets Archive

"“Embrace ugly games, grimy games,” Self said explaining his general philosophy on how to attack the Big 12 this season. “I don’t think we did a great job of that (vs. OU) but we did a good enough job.”" ~ KUSports.com

BAD BALL is officially back!

Or is it?

Most of us in here remember those days. Games in the 50s and 60s. Ugly basketball. Basketball hard to watch and feel good about, even when we win.

For decades now... I listened to a rule that was put out there by someone. "KU rarely wins when they don't score 70 points!" How many of you have heard this statement? I've heard it from many, including people that are hardly even fans of college basketball or KU.

In our loss to TT we only had 67 points. So that game holds water on this old "golden rule."

But our win at OU only garnered 67 points. Our home win against ISU was achieved with only 62 points.

What does this point to? Our point totals look like they are headed down towards BAD BALL territory. We do know we can win games and even league championships with BAD BALL. The key (drum roll) is our defense!

So how is our defense holding up in league play? To date, we are only giving up 64.4 points on average. 3 of our 5 games have been away.

It is my belief... from this day forward this season... we focus on defense. Our offense looks inconsistent. Obviously, we have to look for points whenever they are possible. But the road to gold in this league this year is to value defense and possessions. That means focus on rebounds and taking care of the ball. That means two of our best BAD BALL players should be Jalen and Dajuan. I'm thinking many in here don't want to hear that. And I only believe it to a point. CB has a good point average (we need points) and a good rebounder. Och... well... someone has to put up consistent points and also be our "go to" guy down the stretch. Where does that leave Big Mac? I would say... his value moving forward will largely be about his defense protection in the post and rebounding. When he has mismatches and can score... that is the cherry on top.

For us to be successful winning the league with BAD BALL we are going to have to get a lot tougher. That means we have to be at the FT line a heck of a lot more because we don't shy away from contact. Might also mean that we go deeper into our bench because we foul more. It also means we have to fight a lot harder for 50/50 balls!

Where does Remy fit into all of this? He came to Kansas not used to playing tough defense. We seen him soft. We've seen Self dissatisfied. Is he healthy now? I think Remy is still a very good investment for earning solid PT. He brings energy into the game, and our guys need energy to slug our way through BAD BALL. He still has some defensive weaknesses... but he is putting in more effort with team defense and stealing balls. He is starting to bear down a little harder and will continue to tighten his defensive play.

While most KU fans were excited for this year because of our potential firepower... I envisioned this team could become a very solid defensive team, even without Marcus at point. I've listened to plenty of naysayers with this team and their defense. And I've definitely watched us play some very soft defense. But I do see the screws tightening and it can't happen at a better time!

Is it possible we could win-out in league if we can maintain 70 ppg? I'm not going to focus on that. I'm jumping on the Bill Self wagon and cheering us on as we survive BAD BALL and hopefully bring back the league title to Kansas!

STATISTICS:

According to the conference stats... we are at the top in offense and the bottom at defense. Does it still work that we focus on defense? Yes. Especially if you believe the road to a conference title isn't just through Lawrence anymore... it is from winning on the road! Stats don't tell us everything. I bet we run more possessions per game than most teams in our league.

@drgnslayr said in BAD BALL is back!:

"“Embrace ugly games, grimy games,” Self said explaining his general philosophy on how to attack the Big 12 this season. “I don’t think we did a great job of that (vs. OU) but we did a good enough job.”" ~ KUSports.com

BAD BALL is officially back!

Or is it?

Most of us in here remember those days. Games in the 50s and 60s. Ugly basketball. Basketball hard to watch and feel good about, even when we win.

For decades now... I listened to a rule that was put out there by someone. "KU rarely wins when they don't score 70 points!" How many of you have heard this statement? I've heard it from many, including people that are hardly even fans of college basketball or KU.

In our loss to TT we only had 67 points. So that game holds water on this old "golden rule."

But our win at OU only garnered 67 points. Our home win against ISU was achieved with only 62 points.

What does this point to? Our point totals look like they are headed down towards BAD BALL territory. We do know we can win games and even league championships with BAD BALL. The key (drum roll) is our defense!

So how is our defense holding up in league play? To date, we are only giving up 64.4 points on average. 3 of our 5 games have been away.

It is my belief... from this day forward this season... we focus on defense. Our offense looks inconsistent. Obviously, we have to look for points whenever they are possible. But the road to gold in this league this year is to value defense and possessions. That means focus on rebounds and taking care of the ball. That means two of our best BAD BALL players should be Jalen and Dajuan. I'm thinking many in here don't want to hear that. And I only believe it to a point. CB has a good point average (we need points) and a good rebounder. Och... well... someone has to put up consistent points and also be our "go to" guy down the stretch. Where does that leave Big Mac? I would say... his value moving forward will largely be about his defense protection in the post and rebounding. When he has mismatches and can score... that is the cherry on top.

For us to be successful winning the league with BAD BALL we are going to have to get a lot tougher. That means we have to be at the FT line a heck of a lot more because we don't shy away from contact. Might also mean that we go deeper into our bench because we foul more. It also means we have to fight a lot harder for 50/50 balls!

Where does Remy fit into all of this? He came to Kansas not used to playing tough defense. We seen him soft. We've seen Self dissatisfied. Is he healthy now? I think Remy is still a very good investment for earning solid PT. He brings energy into the game, and our guys need energy to slug our way through BAD BALL. He still has some defensive weaknesses... but he is putting in more effort with team defense and stealing balls. He is starting to bear down a little harder and will continue to tighten his defensive play.

While most KU fans were excited for this year because of our potential firepower... I envisioned this team could become a very solid defensive team, even without Marcus at point. I've listened to plenty of naysayers with this team and their defense. And I've definitely watched us play some very soft defense. But I do see the screws tightening and it can't happen at a better time!

Is it possible we could win-out in league if we can maintain 70 ppg? I'm not going to focus on that. I'm jumping on the Bill Self wagon and cheering us on as we survive BAD BALL and hopefully bring back the league title to Kansas!

STATISTICS:

According to the conference stats... we are at the top in offense and the bottom at defense. Does it still work that we focus on defense? Yes. Especially if you believe the road to a conference title isn't just through Lawrence anymore... it is from winning on the road!

Your right cause this league lives on bad/ugly ball , slow down offense - - limited , possessions, you have to value each possession even that much more , what's that mean ? - -means you can not afford sloppy ball handling , careless turnovers , it means you have to compete on the boards. It's NOT going to get any better tomorrow against K/State , they love ugly ball I read today I think they defend the 3 pt line which is one of the better things we do leading the league at like 37 %- - K/ State defends the line and it's like I think it said they defend the 5th best in the Country against the 3. - - So how do we counter act that ? - -It means this very well might be one of those games where we have to get points out of Dave - - And I think WE DO have an advantage at the 5 in this game he HAAS to come through with the way K/State plays every trip is so important.

Like you said we are 1st on the offensive end and dead last on the defensive end , which is surprising really cause the whole time has been if you don't wanna play defense for Bill - -then you sit.
We have SIX teams in this league that are averaging 73 points or less and KSU is leading that 6 with an offensive output of 68.3. - -YET this league I think they said has ALL teams in the top 40 of the defensive end. - -It's a WAR every night out. - -We HAVE to win BAD/UGLY BALL to hoist yet another trophy

Games in the 60s are just going to happen. Happened to the '08 team 6 times on their road to the NC. Going 4-2 in those games (3 games in a row at one point were in the 60s, I'm sure people were saying the offense was broken then too).

I really think this team's best chance is playing the pace/tempo they have been. Sure I'd love to see the defense cranked up a notch, but I feel like the reason to play "bad ball" is because you lack the talent to win other ways. We do not have a lack of talent. In fact I would argue that Bill Self could finish top half of the league with the bench and not just because he's a good coach. Yesufu, Bobby, JCL, KJ, Zach, and Mitch could put up a fight.

Our strength is transition offense, and we should be wanting to push the tempo. Quite honestly, it feels as if everyone else in the league is playing bad ball. But I do not believe we should be. We have the thoroughbreds this year, you have to let them run. I think the last hump we have to get over is just avoiding "the lull."

This team scores at an above average pace 75-80% of the game. I think they may have had a double digit lead in every single game this season if my memory serves me right. But for whatever godforsaken reason, once we get that lead, we go on the coldest stretch of basketball I've ever seen. This phenomenon will subside. "The lull" will go away and you'll start to see KU beat some really good teams by 25 points. You've already seen Jalen bounce back from whatever the hell he had going on. Dave is showing signs of life. Next we just need Remy to find a little bit of rhythm and that is when you'll see this team kick the sh*t out of others.

I am definitely not on board with a plan to slow this team down and play any sort of style that slows down the offense, mostly because I think it hasn't even hit its stride yet. I still think this team is really really good. FF run type of good. And I don't think a rock fight slow tempo style is what is going to get them there.

@Kcmatt7

I don't think Self wants to slow it down. I think he realizes that our half-court offense is sputtering in league play so anything we can get on a run-out is positive!

Defense is something we can bring every night if we finally get players to buy in. Offense is going to be hit and miss.

So what happens if we continue to lead the league in offense and we lift our defense to being close to the top?

Anyways, I think it is easier to teach defense than offense.

@drgnslayr
Very nice.

my .02:

Okay. I have a big smile on my face after that game last night.

Our performance was a mixed bag.

The positives were huge and shows us clearly that this team can be tough when it wants to be! We showed mental toughness. We never gave up. We never really lost our poise. We stuck to our plan, and eventually it paid off! We also showed some physical toughness. I don't think I've seen a Bill Self team fight this hard on the glass... especially on the offensive glass. We won't lose many games ahead if we keep this aggressiveness. Och... a guy who I've been critical about for not playing hard for 40 minutes... played hard for 40 minutes!

Now... what went wrong in this game? How did we let a team less talented than us almost run us out of the gym? One simple topic... we got SMOKED BY THE "BLOW BY!" I've never seen a Bill Self team get beat this bad off the dribble. I wish someone would watch the game again and count how many times they blew by us. It was so much of their offense (no, I'm not forgetting the treys) and if we had done a better job shutting this down all game, we would have blown the kitties out of the gym! We did a better job in the second half and that allowed us to overcome the monster deficit.

So we leaked horribly on defense for most of the game and made it an almost impossible hurdle towards a win... then we battled like beasts to come back and win!

I tip my hat to this entire team for coming back from such a deficit! And a special tip to Och for staying engaged in this game and stepping up at the end, too!

@drgnslayr said in BAD BALL is back!:

Okay. I have a big smile on my face after that game last night.

Our performance was a mixed bag.

The positives were huge and shows us clearly that this team can be tough when it wants to be! We showed mental toughness. We never gave up. We never really lost our poise. We stuck to our plan, and eventually it paid off! We also showed some physical toughness. I don't think I've seen a Bill Self team fight this hard on the glass... especially on the offensive glass. We won't lose many games ahead if we keep this aggressiveness. Och... a guy who I've been critical about for not playing hard for 40 minutes... played hard for 40 minutes!

Now... what went wrong in this game? How did we let a team less talented than us almost run us out of the gym? One simple topic... we got SMOKED BY THE "BLOW BY!" I've never seen a Bill Self team get beat this bad off the dribble. I wish someone would watch the game again and count how many times they blew by us. It was so much of their offense (no, I'm not forgetting the treys) and if we had done a better job shutting this down all game, we would have blown the kitties out of the gym! We did a better job in the second half and that allowed us to overcome the monster deficit.

So we leaked horribly on defense for most of the game and made it an almost impossible hurdle towards a win... then we battled like beasts to come back and win!

I tip my hat to this entire team for coming back from such a deficit! And a special tip to Och for staying engaged in this game and stepping up at the end, too!

drgnslayr : I agree a lot with what you said. Here is the thing & I've said this multiple times this season , This isn't something new that has just happened yesterday. we ( KU ) has been getting BEAT time after time after time ALL SEASON off the dribble drive. Their containment - - being able to cut off the one on one drive is pathetic , getting beat constantly. One big thing about this is we have had other years where we have gotten beaten on the dribble drive BUT we had Doke , on the back line for the rim protection and make guys think twice about trying to score and they would end up kicking it back out. THIS YR is totally different , we don't have that dominant rim protector. We had guys that knew they could be more aggressive on the defensive end with Doke - - this yr is not the case. Thus this is one major reason KU is dead last in the conference in team defense. I'm like you I've never seen us get beaten , and beaten bad off the drive. We have some guys with not the quickest foot speed to recover when they get beat.

Now as far as the come back - - - Again like you I agree, these guys yesterday after we got 17 down was like umm - - Screw this , no way is this gonna happen. I've never seen as a team , time after time guys going to the floor for a loose ball, and just destroying another team on the Boards specifically offensive end. I mean JUMPIN GEE HOSSIE TOADS , if the guys would put forth that type of effort every time out - - we would be killer. I don't expect that to be the case and like you said part of the reason very well could of been because of the difference of Talent, and in the end it showed yet against more talented teams we can't get in that kind of position again cause on down the road when it really matters most , if that happens - - were screwed

Another thing I mentioned yesterday in reference to how you mentioned Och , I said I think we found our Alpha , our Dog, a guy that's ready and willing to step up and like give me the ball and get the hell out of my way. That's what I'VE been waiting for , not guys that are timid in game time major situations where we have to have that key bucket , and they pass up shots, even wide open shots. Och is ready to take over a game when need be - -Him especially would NOT allow us to lose this game yesterday , Actually that was a team thing BUT Och stepped up huge and showed his moxy. Guy can be a stud if he gets the right mind set. - -This team to me yesterday late looked really good in effort , aggressivness for sure, just attacking time after time either getting the basket or getting the foul. - -now THAT'S THE TEAM I've been waiting for - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Big XII games are going to be ugly because most of the teams in conference don't have the firepower to trade buckets with KU. That means for any other team to have a chance to beat KU, they need the game played in the 60s moreso than the 80s. Pace requires both teams, so if one team wants to walk it up and bog down the possessions, it will be tough for KU to make it an up and down game, especially since this team is not an elite defensive unit, although I don't think they are as bad as some believe.

KU is limited defensively because they play four guys that really can't interchange very well. McCormack and Lightfoot have to guard interior post players. Harris and Martin need to guard smaller guards. Any other matchup for any of those four guys is a mismatch either because of footspeed in the case of the bigs, or size in the case of the guards. You're playing at least one, but usually two or three mismatch players at all times. That limits how good your defense can be since you can get caught in bad matchups.

But the benefit is that KU should be able to score when they need to. They should be able to get baskets down the stretch. Agbaji and Braun should be able to keep the offense rolling because either guy can get a good shot against a set defense. That's the key. This is an offensive team, not a defensive one.

@drgnslayr I didn't see a mixed bag exactly. I saw a team get buried by a team that couldn't miss, and then the most amazing thing happened. It's like the entire team woke up, and began to fly all over the court. This was like a new team- they hit a gear we have never seen with this group. They played tough, they played with grit. The rebounding was amazing. Och took over the game, but all of them played at a level we haven't seen this year. This brutal conference schedule is shaping them, molding them into something special. Now, can we bottle that up, and use that toughness from here on out? Tonight will be a great indicator, because we play one of the toughest teams in the B12 tonight.

@Jethro said in BAD BALL is back!:

@drgnslayr I didn't see a mixed bag exactly. I saw a team get buried by a team that couldn't miss, and then the most amazing thing happened. It's like the entire team woke up, and began to fly all over the court. This was like a new team- they hit a gear we have never seen with this group. They played tough, they played with grit. The rebounding was amazing. Och took over the game, but all of them played at a level we haven't seen this year. This brutal conference schedule is shaping them, molding them into something special. Now, can we bottle that up, and use that toughness from here on out? Tonight will be a great indicator, because we play one of the toughest teams in the B12 tonight.

Still waiting for Och to have one of these dominating games AND shoot well on the same night. He’s going for 35+at least once this year. It is only a matter of time. He dominated that game while shooting poorly from 3 AND the free throw line. Hell of a performance.

Second half of the KU-State game reminded me of the 2011-12 team. That team could be down double digits (like the final home game against Mizzou) or just down 6 or 7 with a couple minutes left (Purdue in the the tourney), and just slowly chip away without freaking out and walk out with a W. Very little hero ball on that team. That's what Self thinks "tough" is.

We don't have Withey or TRob or good Tyshawn, but the current five starters are bought in and true believers that you just don't quit. Two big dogs with Braun and Och and one little bullshit terrier yorkie with Harris and the glue guy Wilson and.... whatever Big Dave is. Screen man and rebounder.

I feel like we are mimicking the Chiefs... soft defense but the ability to get points when we need them. Outrunning teams on points. Yes... we only need 13 seconds to score!

@drgnslayr

And we forced tech into our pace of play for a lot of that game. It was great to see us making them uncomfortable

@BeddieKU23

I liked how we pushed tempo. Just wish we had schemed more ways to score on secondary breaks. We pushed the ball up court then often fell back into a long shot clock possession.

We controlled more of the tempo, too, because they don't have a PG. This team would be deadly if they had that. You can bet they'll bring in a PG next year.

@BeddieKU23 Dropped to 50th D rating on Kenpom....

@Kcmatt7

Plus 12 on the boards tho last night. I'm sure the 91 on how many possessions didn't metric well. Our offense though forced them into a higher paced game then they wanted. If Bryson Williams doesn't have his super bowl yet again they don't hit 60. We defended extremely well at times and even periods. Especially for the fact we don't get steals or a lot of deflections. KJ saved the night on d

I wonder if KJ will defend Oscar better than Dave. I’m not trashing Dave btw.

@drgnslayr

We looked a bit timid to push on the breaks with their guys trailing to block shots. They have a ton of functional athletic ability out there. I think it was smart at times to avoid what was coming.

I just love how Remy forced tech out of their rhythm defensively. Visited the tech board and they noted as much about him. They also had no answer for Agbaji. Talk about a guy locked into assassin mode for 46 minutes. He's in an air all by himself not only on this team but across the nation. Its rubbing off on Jalen too.

@Kcmatt7 said in BAD BALL is back!:

@BeddieKU23 Dropped to 50th D rating on Kenpom....

If history is any guide, that doesn't augur well for our tournament chances - don't think there has been a champion in past decade or two with anything close to that defensive ranking.

@DCHawker My conspiracy theory with Kenpom might come into play here. I've maintained he has twisted his rankings to fit the "must be in the Top 25" narrative in past, and would do so again if needed. I'm specifically speaking of UCONN's last title.

@DCHawker

Sure it doesn't look good. We at least have a Top 3 offense to compensate