🏀 KuBuckets Archive

I hate comparing Kansas and Kentucky (well maybe not hate since I am about to do a whole lot of it). I think as Kansas fans we would be happier celebrating our successes rather than trying to compare ourselves to other schools. We are the home of basketball, or history speaks for itself. We should feel inferior to no one. With that said, recently I have been having a strange feeling. One that I am not used to as a Kansas basketball fan. It really just popped up in the last few weeks. I’m almost embarrassed to share this shame with other true basketball fans. But I can’t hold it in any longer. This may seem like blasphemy but stay with me here and you might find you agree. Hi, my name (internet name) is benshawks08 and I am jealous of Kentucky.

You might think I am jealous because of Kentucky’s recent success. They beat us in 2012 for the championship and got back to the finals last year. But the way I look at it, we won in 2008 and were back in the finals 4 years later. Add to that our 2003 run and the recent history isn’t too different (depending on your definition of recent!) I think Kentucky will get beat in the tournament this year, and while we may not make the finals this year, I think by Mason’s senior year we will be back to the Promised Land. So when looking at recent championship play, Kentucky DOESN’T make me jealous.

Overall, we are 17 or so wins behind Kentucky in the total win tally. However, with Kentucky’s shady past with point shaving, paying players, etc. and slimy present, I am happy with our place in the win total race. So Kentucky’s wins DON’T make me jealous.

Kentucky’s current record stands at 22-0. They have some good wins vs. KU, UT, UNC and UL. They clearly look like the team to beat this year and many are thinking they will be undefeated going into the tournament. I, however, like our hard fought 19-3 record. Yes I wish we could have beaten them early in the season and the Temple loss doesn’t look great but we have played twice as many games against ranked opponents this year and that number will only continue to grow. So while I always want KU to be ranked 1st and the undisputed best team in the country, Kentucky’s current status DOESN’T make me jealous.

Rupp arena holds 23,500 while Allen Fieldhouse only holds 16,300. I am not even going to finish this paragraph. Kentucky’s venue DOES NOT make me jealous.

Kentucky is recognized as a school that puts players into the NBA. This year Kentucky had 19 players on opening day rosters. Stars including Anthony Davis and John Wall. They always have multiple lottery picks. But Kansas has 17 that is a difference of 2 for those who might struggle with math. And last year we had the number 1 and number 3 pick. Wiggins will be a super star and if Joel stays healthy he would not surprise me if he made some All-Star games. So Kentucky’s NBA roster DOES NOT make me jealous.

Kentucky plays in the SEC. They should go unchallenged this year and most years leading to them racking up lots of conference championships. HA. Not it.

Coach…Please!

Current players? They are good and I’m sure they are not all terrible people. But I wouldn’t trade anyone Jayhawk for ANY Wildcat. Their players DO NOT make me jealous.

Kentucky is consistently one of the best teams in the country. They make the tournament as a high seed fairly regularly. So does Kansas. So, no, this DOES NIT, oops, NOT make me jealous.

So what does? Two things actually.

1. Kentucky has an in state rival that is really good that they play every year. Kentucky v. Louisville is a game that people mark on their calendar as a big game and it usually involves two ranked teams with two highly regarded coaches. Kansas has no such game. Some suggest adding WSU to the schedule and I have thought that at times too. But I just don’t believe they have the staying power to make that a relevant game every year. In the years where WSU is down it would be no-win for KU. Marshall is a KU trolling slime ball who likes to take cheap shots at KU without ever even asking for a game. KSU could be that team but State just isn’t good enough.

2. Kentucky gets to beat Missouri EVERY YEAR. Self made a comment the other day about waking up every morning knowing you hate someone and how that was a good thing for a rivalry. Iowa State is close but as even that other site’s Keegan pointed out,
   “Almost seven weeks later, Elijah Johnson’s 39 points led KU to a 108-96 overtime victory. His final two points came when the right play was to dribble out the clock. That sent Iowa State booster Melvin Weatherwax into such a rage that he nearly got himself arrested. That tirade aimed at KU coach Bill Self landed him on the average KU fan’s list of all-time villains, most of whom have played or worked for Missouri.
   You won’t find the names of fifth-year Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg and his players on that list. The Cyclones are a classy rival. And at the moment, they are undoubtedly KU’s No. 1 Big 12 basketball rival.”
   Iowa State is definitely getting closer to being a true rival but it isn’t there yet. That was a great game and I was certainly pumped for it. You could tell Self and the players really wanted it. There was a little scrappiness and emotions were high. I started to feel a little ire towards ISU as they shoved and bear hugged as a form of block out especially on free throws! Go rewatch it. It was crazy! I just can’t muster the same level of hate I have always had for Mizery.

I didn’t use to think this but we need to play Missouri again. Not that they are as good as Louisville or ever will be. But at least we can feel comfortable hating them and getting our shot to prove just how terrible they are every year. They may have a resurgence at some point and get back to Top 25 caliber basketball. I never thought I’d say this but I miss Mizery. And it makes me JEALOUS that UK gets to stomp them every year while we just watch hoping for injuries (I don’t actually do that… usually).

@benshawks08

Here is a bit of trivia...

AFH is the Cathedral of Basketball and while it is owned by the University it belong to all Jayhawk fans and is revered by basketball fans all over.

Rupp Arena is not owned by the University of Kentucky, it is owned by an agency of the Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government; UK is simply a tenant. If UK ever builds an arena of its own...and since the Rupp name is taken, what will they call it? The Squid Dome? The Probation Center? *PS&C Arena?

*PS&C = Point Shaving and Cheating

Yeap, malice intended.

@JayHawkFanToo I DO NOT understand why the big money boosters, Lexington, and the businesses in the Lexington area has yet to build a stadium for the team. This is their bread and butter, yet no Phog Allen or arena to call their own home. They need to build a real Rupp Arena. My guess is many of the boosters and business owners have a huge interest in the current arrangement.

Or maybe they are investing their money in other basketball interests? ; - )

Sad to have an elite program but no arena for your team.

So do you think we should add Missouri maybe as part of the Big12/SEC challenge? I know that has usually been our Florida game. And I like that game. It usually does more for our SOS than MU does. I still think WSU is a no win game for KU but we need another rivalry. KSU just isn't cutting it. And now Foster is out?

benshawks08,
An ethical question on Kensucky for you or anyone. Recently I read that Slime ball Cali had alums pay for their 7-8 game trip to play against international-professional teams. Also it's not NCAA violation. Please explain to me how this is ethical when NCAA controls & monitors every practicing hour/minute? Because the school itself doesn't fund it, it can be done. But the school is indirectly through its alumns. Aren't these alums tied to the school? Exclude the school, and what or who are they? CEOs of shoe cos could fund it? I bet that'd be against the NCAA rules. It smells fishy, and NCAA should change its rules on that. Thoughts? And NO I am not jealous of a shady mind and crooked hands of Cali. One can say he's creative - just like the Enron crooks who got creative. I just know his time on the stage will be over soon - by his own making.

Well ethically that seems to me like a pretty good way to handle that situation. You certainly don't want the kids paying for it. It is better than taking the money away from other sports or education programs at the school. I'm not sure how it fits with other NCAA rules. It seems to be at odds with some others but I am certainly not a rule book expert. I'm sure our own beloved Bill Self does some questionable things within the rules in attempt to get an edge. Do you know if that counts as one of their preseason tournaments? Like when we go to Canada and what not? Now don't take this as me defending Cal. His record speaks for itself as far as playing by the rules. Nothing has ever stuck to him personally but I'm sure that is not accident. It is only a matter of time before he leaves Kentucky and we find out all the under the table stuff that was going on "without his knowledge."

@benshawks08

Yikes. You opened the drgnslayr can of worms! Shame, shame!

Everyone, their dogs, and their cousin's dogs know where I stand on this. We can't just create a rivalry out of thin air. It looks like we are stuck with KSU, WSU or MU.

KSU is like our cross-eyed cousin. We tend to feel more pity for the poor fools than anger. We used to have a solid rivalry until KSU focused more on football than basketball. To be honest, it was a wise move for them, bringing in a lot more revenue.

Mizzou. Forget it. There is no part of a real rivalry there. It is just pure hate. It is too much hate. And now that they are a member of the Kentucky Farm League, they will never be a potential threat. Beating their heads in every year won't qualify them as rivalry material.

WSU. While it is true that we don't know for how long Marshall can keep this team's pants up... he did bring them to a level where we could start developing this as a playing rivalry. A home-home-Sprint scenario actually works well financially. I've been stating all along, that this is the time to start this, while WSU is a ranked team. Once we start this thing, we help their program more than ours. Fine. Help them maintain a quality team so we can snook them every year! ha... I'm not saying this could ever equal UK vs UL.... but it would instantly be a high-demand view of national prominence, and it would give us someone to rival with every year.

We need to think broader. We need to realize that having good basketball around us is a positive. It is good for our State, and it is good for both schools recruiting. Plus... it just adds some real spice to our schedule. The UK/UL event makes them a lot of attention and it especially helps Kentucky because their schedule can never be that great since they play in the SEC. Kentucky needs to play good teams where there is national interest. Who gives a poo when Kentucky plays Georgia? Borrrriiiinnnggg!

It is a benefit that WSU is not in the B12. Some people mention ISU as a developing rivalry. There is a certain point where Kansas gets hurt with that. There is the situation where we have everything to lose and nothing to gain. By making our games with them real grudge matches (even more than now) we put our games on a closer competitive level. Teams play to the strength of the rivalry and we don't need to make our games even tighter with ISU.

If we lose to WSU, we mostly lose pride. That just fuels the next opportunity to play. A big part of what makes basketball so good back east is the quality of teams within a short proximity.

Good basketball is like a magnet with fans. We can use more magnets in the Midwest.

I vote we play the Shocks. And I vote we kick their arses all the way back to Wichita! Every single year!

Kentucky has zero games in their league this year that nationally will draw any attention. This is in no fault of their own of course, but think about that. We like the attention KU gets nationally, and we like that weekly it seems we have another big game coming up. Not Kentucky. Their next big game will be around the sweet 16. That will be the next high caliber team they play. It's kind of reminding me of Wichita last year.

@JayHawkFanToo

PHOF^10

The Mizz series ending was a shame but it had to be done. They are so bad this year and have been for a few years now that playing them for rivalry sake wouldn't have done anything for us. They left for football great, they have a decent team some years in that sport. Now they are at the bottom for basketball in complete rebuild mode.

I don't feel bad for them we have a new rival in Iowa St. Hoiberg has brought back the magic to their school, and Elijah Johnson cemented the foundation for a great rivalry.
We lose by 5 playing like crap this year, then whip them at home. The last 6-8 games between these schools have been played like its the last game of basketball these kids will ever play.

Even College Gameday went to Ames, and the return matchup was talked about for a week before it happened. That's the making of a rivalry right there. K-St's semi recent success in beating us on their home gym is a blip on the radar compared to the high level Fred has ISU playing against us at. Texas has given us rival status from time to time but never consistently sticks to it because of them being a football school first. Wichita St does nothing for us outside the state of Kansas. No benefit to playing them, unless Marshall stays and consistently has his team winning 25-30 games a year.

We haven't had a non-conference series set up that sticks like some of the others teams. The champions classic has been great for recruiting and early season hype but we don't play UK, Duke or Michigan St consistently every year.

Play a dumpsterous Mizzoo team, simply to smear that stuff on their fans' faces. Beat em by 40+, remind them they are nuthin!

I like KY: the Royal Blue beatings of Mizzoo cont'd at the hands of that blue blood...

I like KY: Ive come to enjoy Calipari and his soundbites. He usually has a spot on description of his team. And he usually gets them to do what they need to do.

I like KY: Calipari has proven his system, different from ours, like Hoiberg's is different than ours.

I like KY, Duke, UNC...where is it written that a royalty program fan & alum cannot appreciate other royalty programs? Savvy college basketball fans should be able to appreciate quality? Just like Self Im sure appreciates royalty level competition, all the while quietly plotting how to beat em...

I may drive a Benz, but that doesnt mean I cant appreciate a bmw or porsche or Ferrari.

I may be married to a stunning blue-eyed brunette, but that doesnt mean I cant appreciate the red-carpet looks of Hollywood blondes or redheads.

Appreciate QUALITY. (Takes 1 to know 1, right?)

Meanwhile, those MizzooCreatures are about done...little bitty pussies, wrapped up in foil...ready to boil!

Hahahaha!!!!!!

Fellow bluebloods know the most what its like to have a target on your back...and every single time Ive said this fact to an obnoxious other-royalty fan, they quickly see the higher perspective & we have some cool bball discussions.

@ralster

"I like KY: the Royal Blue beatings of Mizzoo cont'd at the hands of that blue blood..."

Priceless! I love it, too!

It is the one time I become a Kentucky fan.

The Tigs ran away from their master only having landed in a place with a new master of the same royal quilt.

Eventually their football will fall and the SEC will be ready for an upgrade. I see a new conference for the Tigs.... welcome to the Sun Belt Conference!

Let me simply say that we Jayhawks are damn lucky to have had Roy, and now Self as our coaches. They have kept us relevant, modern high-elite level contenders.

@ralster

What about Larry?

Of course Larry Brown, too. I'll give a half smirk about the talk of Brown getting ku on probation, just ku/Self got penalized a scholly for something on Roy's watch. I put the smoke & noise about John Calipari along that same continuum...who knows if he's done anything worse, until we actually know down the line (future).

Jealous of KY? Nope. Why demean ourselves by feeling jealous of anybody?

I say offer up a toast to KY after their '12NC, like a chivalrous knight would to another!

@ralster

I've got a special spot for Larry because he was the guy that got us back on track. In that same mentality, I toast Calipari for bringing back Kentucky basketball. Whether or not we are Kentucky fans or not, Kentucky was a blue blood program before Cal got there, and he has done wonders to bring back the momentum to Lexington. Good for them!

Yes. UK and UNC both make me jealous! They can always trace their roots to the ONE True Blue Blood. Like A. Rupp, D. Smith, R. William, even Cal the graduate assistant. At KU, we just don't have that. RCJH!

@Shanghai_RCJH I know! If only we had some historical relevance to the game of basketball!

So who might be a good non-conference game to get going? I know @drgnslayr wants WSU, and many of you feel ISU is becoming our conference rival. Any other good options people feel would be a good home and home series? I love the champions classic. Georgetown and Temple seem to pop up pretty regularly. What about a Creighton or Missouri State? Maybe UNI? Someone we could play consistently who plays at a high level fairly consistently. Tulsa is up and coming but who knows if they can sustain it without Danny. Maybe Memphis?

What I would really like would be a series with North Carolina. I know it is a pipe dream as long as Roy is there. No way he signs off on a game with KU that he isn't forced to play. It would certainly give us another game against a blue blood though!

@benshawks08 For my 6 years at KU, I still got to say Mizery. The rest just ain't the same. Competition is one thing, HATE is another. At KU when Norm was MU coach.

@Shanghai_RCJH I'm with you there. Just seemed like that idea didn't get much other support! I really like hating them. It is really the only thing in my life that I allow myself to hate so vehemently.

I've said before that I think we need the Mizzou rivalry in at least basketball and football, just to give KU a major game that matters to people outside the state of Kansas.

UK-Louisville matters nationally in basketball. Duke-UNC does, too. KU-K-State doesn't matter nationally most years because KSU just isn't good enough, and the rivalry doesn't resonate outside Kansas.

KU-Mizzou was a rivlary that mattered. When I traveled and said I was from Kansas, people asked me about KU-Mizzou. The only time I have ever been asked about KU-KSU is when someone asked me if it was a rivalry.

@benshawks08 - Reminds me of a Martin Short "I'm OK, you're OK" schtick...

@benshawks08 said:

@Shanghai_RCJH I'm with you there. Just seemed like that idea didn't get much other support! I really like hating them. It is really the only thing in my life that I allow myself to hate so vehemently.

And, continue that hatred that can't seem to fade year after year and for many many more years to come!

@Ralster and @drgnslayr, What I don't like about Kentucky is they have hijacked this game we all love by stockpiling talent like never before. I don't loathe Duke, Syracuse, or other bluebloods like I do Kentucky. Part of it is their fans. Their arrogance. Their bragging and boasting. Part of it is their coach. You applaud him, and well you should, I guess, but I just can't stand him for what he's doing to the game.

On the Roy and Larry discussion I always felt the minor indiscretion that got us in trouble under Larry's watch was a blessing in disguise. Larry has proven he won't stay put in a place anyways and it opened the door for the wildly successful Roy years and of course the wildly successful Self years.

Mention "Tulsa" and I think of Frank Haith...which reminds me of the most EPIC Bill Self sideline reaction in the history of Bill Self: first a left, then a right roundhouse fist-swing, complete with a redfaced Self yell, which then segued seamlessly into Self's infamous direct personal snub of Haith in the "(no!)handshake line"...didnt even look Haith's direction. See on youtube. Priceless!

@ralster Gotta admit, that one was PDG...priceless !!

And speaking of that Self reaction after the defeat of Mizzoo in AFH, if you ever wondered about Self as HeadJayhawk, y'all saw it right there: Both wings aggressive, angry face, and strutting off with purpose, coattails flapping--A pretty damn good personification of the 1941 FightJayhawk, eh?

@wissoxfan83

"What I don't like about Kentucky is they have hijacked this game we all love by stockpiling talent like never before. I don't loathe Duke, Syracuse, or other bluebloods like I do Kentucky. Part of it is their fans. Their arrogance. Their bragging and boasting. Part of it is their coach. You applaud him, and well you should, I guess, but I just can't stand him for what he's doing to the game."

I agree totally... but I still accept Kentucky as a blue blood. I don't agree with a lot of their fans, and I hate how Cal has highjacked the game.

But it is up to us to prove his strategy wrong. It is up to Self to beat Cal. Cal just raised the stakes. We continue to recruit more talented players. It is up to Self to figure out how to do it and win on a national level.

Kansas is working on going head-to-head with Cal. We've now invested in the luxury player suites. We have the rules and are upgrading AFH with a new facility to offer more.

We should easily be able to compete with Kentucky for players, even surpass them. But in that process, it would be a gigantic mistake to have the Cal strategy that "more is better." There are many areas where we are ahead of Kentucky... we play in a real basketball conference, there is no comparison between AFH and Crupp, our history in the game and legacy is superior, we have a much better strength and conditioning program (the tops in college sports) and we have a superior coach who can not only recruit but knows his Xs and Os.

We aren't far away from being in a superior recruiting position. We are getting top talent now, including the ability to snag top players. We just need to be able to make sure we don't have holes in positions. We are one big man away from this team being a great team, and they might still get there without one.

I agree with others that we should be able to win consistently on a national level without completely stacking the deck like Kentucky has done. Their big advantage this year isn't about who they brought in, it is about all the players that decided to stay. We should be able to battle any team in the nation with 4 or 5 McDs AAs. We should never need the stack that Kentucky has. But what we truly need is the right kind of depth at every slot. We are just one big man away from having a dream team and it didn't even have to be a McDs AA.

One of our biggest issues is youth. We sort of got going in a tough direction when we lost so many players a couple years ago. That sort of created a lopsided year of young blood, followed by another year of it because we lost two OADs. We are now on good ground again because we have a solid core of freshmen and sophomores, most will return and stay 4 years. It is fine to continue to recruit several OAD-type players as long as we balance it out with some experienced players that provide the glue and all the other needed play that isn't SportsCenter highlights.

I think Cal has finally figured it out that his strategy doesn't work to only recruit guys that all will leave after 1 year. He isn't going to lose all 9 of his McDs AAs this year. Some will be back, and that is why he'll maintain a competitive team. But watch his games this year. They have one saving grace.... their size and athleticism is intimidating and they block a lot of shots. Their offense just plain stinks. Their games are boring... and full of sour, flat minutes. Cal hasn't been able to resolve his offense, but he can rely on his defense to win games.

I think we are blessed to have a team like ISU and the Mayor in our league. He has brought a higher standard of offense to college basketball. I do believe Self is starting to get it. This is an area that will definitely help us recruit in the future if Self can adopt this style of turbocharged Princeton. It is far superior to Cal's dribble drive... an offense he seems to have forgotten to teach this year.

I'm not sure the whole KU and MU thing was about a rivalry as it was just pure hate. Think about it KU owned them in basketball, and except for the recent success in MU football the records were a wash.

Even in a good rivalry the opponent will tip their cap when they are beat. Something no MU fan has ever done. They just make excuses, and turn to name calling.

As for a true rivalry for KU, the problem is they are a national brand. They recruit with the best and their HC's can X an O with the best. Nobody in the Big 12 is even close. Though some rise to that level for a season or two, they never seem to maintain it.

Iowa St could be that team but I'm not sure they can sustain the recruiting to stay with KU. Really the School in the Big 12 that could do it, would be Texas. However they need to change their mindset and HC when it comes to basketball. I know some like to defend HCRB but man he has had some very talented teams, and never did nothing with it.

Other than a Blue Blood willing to trade punches with KU I'm not sure KU gets the rivalry they want and the fans need.

Assuming their coach would accept, they stay good and they don't go on probation for the next decade, what about UNC? Lots of connections there, lots of stories to tell.

Personally, I'd like to meet and beat VCU every year, preferably in the NCAA Tournament.

@ParisHawk

I think it would be great, but I'm not sure Ol'Roy and the Brass at UNC would be on board with that.

@benshawks08

I would not mind Gonzaga or Arizona...but our schedule is tough enough as it is.

@drgnslayr I personally do not want to engage in a yearly game with WSU. The biggest snub you can give a team is saying "You aren't worth out time' and not scheduling them. It is the same thought that gave KSU fans fits. Talk with a Wildcat fan and they hated that we didn't care about them nearly as much as we cared about Mizzou. Likewise, they will always be looking up at us because we won't let them on our level, and I like that.

@JhawkAlum couldn't have said that any better!!!!