Kansas just added Dwight Coleby.
One might say: Pedestrian. Roster clogger. Insurance. Average. Unranked. Waste of time.
Another might say: Good rebounder. Upside. Can shoot free throws. Strong. Necessary add. Fits our system. Trust Self.
I will just say: I wanted Chukwu.
This might indicate that Self thought Chukwu was anything but a sure thing.
Well, Chukwu is certainly dragging his heels in regard to the KU interest and offer. I would imagine that at this stage Bill Self is growing weary of dragass recruits who are shopping or holding out for guarantees for their own best future playing time. In my opinion, an offer from Kansas should be looked upon as pure gold. If Chukwu still wants to come, Self can force a red shirt on Greene to make room and move along.
Now does Coleby and chukwu have to sit for a year? Why would we have to redshirt anybody ?
Actually, if Vick reclassifies, we're out of scholarships.
So someone would have to leave to add Chukwu.
I guess we should know soon if vick joins the 15 class or not and that will dictate what happens with chukwu. Right now no need to speculate anything until vick decides. Sounds like coleby took the opportunity when it presented itself. Chukwu wants to take his visits Can't fault him for that or speculate anything because there's zero real info to say anything
@Bosthawk Yeah, those two players are not graduating, just transferring, so they have to sit out a year per NCAA rules. Just like Withey and Mickelson. And HEM is right, if Vick holds off another year, there is still a scholarship for Chukwu or someone else. My bet is that Vick will sign on for the upcoming season, and will join the squad for the WUGs. If that occurs, Self must get creative...or fold up the recruiting lists for 2015-16.
@Bosthawk No, no .. we don't kick someone out. Never would do that. But it would be likely that a player would magically want to be closer to his daughter, or Self might decide to now inform someone that their playing time will be limited. But no, no one would get kicked out.
Don't bet on it though. I think we're done.
@HighEliteMajor
Right... Naa, Connor, AW 3
Wonder if Chukwu will cancel visit ...
I can't imagine Self would ever tell his beloved Jamari that he may see less playing time, but maybe Hunter??? Dont know...
@HighEliteMajor I wonder if this means Vick won't reclassify for 2015, and the last scholarship goes to Chukwu.
Hurd is quoted saying that Vick is a Jayhawk regardless of the reclassification. He's all KU either this year or next. So, either way Vick is coming to KU come hell or high water. The only thing is do we need Vick a bit more than Chukwu? Either way, Chukwu has to sit. So he won't make an immediate impact. Vick would be an immediate impact player sooner than later under the current situation at the 2 and 3.
It would be nice to land Chukwu. If Vick waits next year, we sign Chukwu. If Vick commits 2016, we could have Coleby, Vick, and maybe Chukwu next year. We lose Ellis and Traylor next year which will make room for Vick next year too.
Could Self be re-evaluating his strategy by allowing Vick to commit in 2016 and giving the paper to Chukwu? We would have two bigs sitting the bench, but making progress on the scout team. Chukwu and Coleby would slide nicely into Traylor and Ellis' spot next year.
I'd really like to see Svi in the 2 with Selden for future depth with Vick. Green would be back for the second half of the season, but not full speed. Self may have a lot of confidence in Svi and Green to handle the 3 this year.
Self will be loaded with Green, Svi, and Vick. Selden may be gone next year too. This would mean that either Svi or Vick would fit nicely into the 2. All three could play the 2 or the 3.
One thing is for sure, we will be shallow at the 2 with Selden and Graham supporting Frank at the point. Graham will have to support Frank and Selden. I'd like to see Svi slide into the 2 backing Selden. It all depends on Vick. If he stays in 2016, then Chukwu will sign, but we won't have Vick who will be sorely needed. So, do we take Vick and pass on Chukwu now? Or, allow Graham and Svi to step up to the challenge, and get Chukwu? These are all good problems for Self. Remember, Diallo might be gone after this year too. Coleby would be a replacement for Diallo. We would likely have Bragg for Ellis. Chukwu would be a great strength inside after being part of the scout team and Diallo gone.
So, you strategists can mull this over for a while until we hear from Vick. I find it odd that Vick is taking so long. I thought he would make a decision middle to the end of this past week. If Vick commits in 2016, we get Chukwu. We go with who we currently have, adding Bragg and Diallo, which are two strong additions. I just think we could be very shallow at the 2 and 3.
Here's a wild idea, what if Self works Ellis and/or Bragg at the 3?
BTW- Mickelson will be gone next year too.
I think we need Vick this year to add that one insurance guard in case of injury. Chukwu would have been nice but Coleby took his spot. Doubtful that we'd lose anyone at this point who could play this year to get someone who cannot and would have to sit. Just sounds like a negative approach. We need the bodies this year because anything can and will happen.
Self and his staff clearly wanted Coleby - they scouted him, decided he was going to be a very good fit (he's going to be a 2 year guy right ?), invited him right away, and closed the deal - if they had thought Chukwu was the better prospect, they would have asked Coleby to visit after Chukwu.
They wanted Colebu over Chukwu -simple as that
And yes VERY hard to imagine vick not re-classifying today to this year...
Stick a fork in it - we are done - pretty good haul this year
My opinion, Self has asked Vick to hold off until this thing with the bigs gets settled. Whether the Coleby signing marks the end of recruiting for 2015, we should soon know...if, as prognosticated, Vick does announce his "chosen" year in the next day or so. Chukwu might have just shot himself in the foot regarding chances to develop as an eventual Final 4 player at KU. But maybe not?
In retrospect, my earlier comment on this thread, hypothesizing that Greene might be forced to take a red shirt in order to make room, did not make good sense. Red shirt or no, he would still usurp a scholarship. Faulty speculation on my part. Apologies to the steadier posters.
Jeff Goodman has just said that Chukwu is still visiting Kansas Wednesday - "Providence transfer big man Paschal Chukwu will visit Nebraska today and Kansas Wednesday, source told ESPN. Virginia also involved."
This supports @REHawk's thought on Vick.
But Vick is supposedly to make the decision by today.
There is a least room to speculate that we could have a departure, right? If Vick reclassifies today AND Chukwu visits Wednesday, that would have to be the case.
Unless Self was considering a departure of a current player, why else would Chukwu visit if Vick reclassifies? That's the only conclusion, right?
I was certainly surprised to see that Coleby signed up over the weekend before Chukwu's visit. As an outsider it always felt that Chukwu would be the primary target but maybe he wasn't. Like everyone else, I'm trying to figure out how we could still add Chukwu. KU could certainly use the depth when he would be eligible with the departures of Ellis, Mickelson, Mari, and possibly Diallo. The only possibilities I can think of are:
We need Vick for the WUG games. I think he sticks with this class. I'd wager if he sticks in 16 that he opens up again because now he's a boarderline 5star prospect according to some. If he sticks the grassroots circuit all summer its hard to believe coaches won't be poaching at him despite committing. He could still rise as there's been only a few tournaments where he's been getting notice.
I'm happy with Coleby, he has a chance to really develop at KU. A lot can happen between now and Wednesday before Chukwu gets here. I bet he visits regardless whether there's a scholarship for him or not. But I believe if Vick does re-classify that we are taking him because we need him.
I'm thinking you are right. Self has told Vick to hold off until he knows about Chukwu. Otherwise, I believe we would have heard from him by now.
And signing Coleby should not clog the waters for recruiting Chukwu. Chukwu is a definite 5, and would be the only real 5 on the team. Coleby offers us post depth. Of course he will fight to win minutes and may do so. Big, strong guys are hard to keep on the bench. They always find some minutes. No team we play will out-muscle us on the boards while he is at Kansas.
I read where he will start his Kansas eligibility when he is 23. 23? It always pays to have some men on your team, and no question about him being a man.
Wow... now lets sign Chukwu and have a monster recruiting year! This really plays out perfect! I couldn't be more thrilled!
Consider this guy the next Tarik Black. Size, strength and attitude. It's all there. He is totally thrilled to be a Jayhawk, just like Tar was. So forget his old stat sheet. All eyes forward! Remember how Tar helped us?!
FYI, I don't think Mickelson can do the graduate/transfer thing. There is an article ↗ from March that he was to graduate "next year."
I kind of wondered that on Traylor .. he's been at Kansas four years now. But I haven't seen anything that he had graduated.
Now I'm confused. Can't Vick reclassify and then redshirt and open up a scholarship spot again? We just need him for the WGs and then he can redshirt for the season right?
Sometimes as KU fans we can make things confusing. There is nothing wrong with being confused. However the key is to ask the right questions to find clarification. Now even asking the right questions can still leave a misty, cloudy, glaring picture. Yet it will strip the madness and at the very least puts you in the ballpark of what's going on. :+1:
I'm not sure we can answer all these questions. Yet I think we can draw some conclusions. Coleby Cheese knew he was going to KU or he never leaves his former school. Chukwu is still on the table for KU. As Chukwu is till coming for his visit and HCBS is still recruiting him even thought all the schollies are full. The rest of it is just conjecture.
Just my thoughts here. I think last year scared the Hell out of HCBS. He was so out of his comfort zone not being able to play his patented high/low. That he has vowed that this will never happen again. Trying to see the bigger picture here. After next year there is a chance that KU could lose Perry, Bragg, and Diallo to the NBA draft. Now I know Bragg projects to more of at least a two year player. However if he has a good season all bets are off. As the NBA draft is really about potential, even it they will trade that potential (Cleveland) ( :) ). Meaning KU could have a big hole in the paint trying to fill competing with UK and Duke in 2016. Hence why I think HCBS is still in on Chukwu. Meaning somebody is transferring, as I don't think redshirting a player gives you another scholarship. I maybe wrong but even if a player redshirts the school still has to honor the scholarship?
I just see Vick playing this year. So I believe somebody is leaving. Especially if Chuckwu signs on the dotted line. If I had to guess it is Traylor. I love the guys heart but he's so in over his head at KU. If he played for a team like Iowa St. that likes to run and gun he would most likely do quite well. Yet in BS system a big has to be able to score with his back to the basket. Something Traylor just can't do. :(
@SkinnyKansasDude said:
Can't Vick reclassify and then redshirt and open up a scholarship spot again? We just need him for the WGs and then he can redshirt for the season right?
Redshirts have nothing to do with scholarships.
If you are offered a scholarship, you have it - for that year.
If Vick comes now, he signs his papers and gets his scholarship and we have none left. Whether he redshirts or not, that scholarship is his.
A non-scholarship player can redshirt too of course - but again whether you redshirt or not has nothing to do with your scholarship.
Think about it for a minute - what does a player do if he comes on scholarship and in October suddenly his scholarship is pulled: how is he going to pay for the rest of his school year?
Chukwu could always decide between now and Wednesday that he isn't coming. This Coleby news was Sunday night so its not like he or his camp has had time to think about it. I think he will take his visit anyway because of the mutual interest but Coleby definitely jacked his spot at the moment.
I seriously doubt Self has said anything to Vick about holding off, they recruited him to play this year as added depth for the WUG and depth for the season. We would have taken Eubanks for this year, or Mack, so this is the same, Self wanted him for 2015.
This situation does raise some questions about a potential post WUG transfer from someone like Mickelson, especially if Vick reclassifies as expected. Mickelson probably isn't going to play much this year and I still wouldn't be surprised if something happens with him, especially if Vick reclassifies as expected.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
This situation does raise some questions about a potential post WUG transfer from someone like Mickelson.
Mickelson has already transferred and redshirted. He cannot redshirt again.
He has only one year of eligibility left and he has to use it this next year. His choices for 2015 are KU and nowhere.
I'm not sure who could leave. The guys who could leave have already left.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Unless Mickleson has graduated, he is stuck. Just like Traylor. He already burned his redshirt season. The NCAA rule is 5 years to play 4. This is his 5th year. The only possible 6th year (still 4 seasons of play) is a medical redshirt, say if Mickelson tore his ACL this summer or something like that.
@BeddieKU23 I would bet on your scenario there. But if Vick doesn't say something today, I'd say the betting line shifts.
@DoubleDD You, I think, are the first one to speculate what we really fear -- the Bragg is an OAD for some reason. You broader point by that comment is that Self is doing everything he can, in this OAD world, to make sure we aren't horribly depleted. Heck, Bragg could end up disenchanted when Self plays Traylor over him most of the season, right (I know that's not funny)? My point is anything could happen. If Coleby ends up being just a body, that is badly needed insurance. Chukwu appears to be more than insurance. I like that it appears we're still in on him.
The "how" would be interesting.
Since we're speculating about someone leaving the team, let's narrow things down:
My conclusion: there is no room for Chukwu if Vick comes now.
Well that's the point.
Why is Chukwu still taking his visit to KU?
Why is HCBS still recruiting Chukwu?
You're right on the Red shirt analogy. That means somebody has to be transferring, as I believe Vick comes now.
@ParisHawk unless Hunter transfers down.
@HighEliteMajor I just read Mickelson isn't scheduled to graduate until next season so that means if Vick reclassifies, recruiting is done because there's no one on the roster that would make sense to force out for Chukwu.
"When Dwight became available, we researched it and watched tape. He's a exactly what I think we need. He's a big guy that can play either bigs position. He's active. He reminds me of a lot of a bigger Jamari or Thomas Robinson-type body." - Bill Self
Saw this quote from posted to KU's basketball Facebook page. Self apparently believes Coleby is more versatile than Chukwu because Self believes Coleby can play both the high and low post and therefore could pair him with either Bragg or Lucas when he becomes eligible to play for KU in 2016-17.
Exactly what i surmised earlier - self and staff quickly researched coleby and saw that he is a hi-lo fit , and acted fast because they wanted him.
if they though chukwu was a better prospect they would have delayed colebys visit
Maybe self knows vick may not be able to fulfill his academic obligations? ... But doubtful, since vick is needed for WUG
I would be shocked If Self told traylor or mickleson they will be benched.
Traylor has been the epitome of what a Ku player should be in Self's system.. Completely dedicated and selfless and extremely hard working
I guarantee you, Self loves traylor despite his shortcomings
@Bosthawk You said, "Traylor has been the epitome of what a Ku player should be in Self’s system… Completely dedicated and selfless and extremely hard working ... "
"Good" though was not included. I'd like that too. Traylor isn't "good."
@Texas-Hawk-10 -- Might you have read that on the helpful link I provided?
@DoubleDD Exactly. If no room, and if we're still after Chukwu .. what gives?
I've said this for quite a while. I thought Brannen Greene might transfer -- the "fit" thing more than anything. Could he transfer if Vick reclassifies? Scholarship open for Chukwu? Greene's dad said no in March or April pretty definitively.
On the pie graph of possibilities, the "we're done" slice is probably at 95% if Vick reclassifies. Yet there are other possibilities ...
@HighEliteMajor
Yes much has been written this past year on various threads about traylor, and i do remember you have written some very detailed well-researched informative analyses on the weaknessess of traylor - none of which i can argue with :)
So why do i (and apparently many others here ) like him so much?
I loved kevin young too, another hard working selfess KU know-his-place role player but i suspect trayor would not match stats with Young.
But im a Traylor fan nonetheless.. Such is the nature of being a KU fan :)
My biggest concern after reading Coleby would visit this weekend was that he would have a hair-trigger and cost us Chuckwu Norris. I'm disappointed, but understand Bill can't wait around.
@HighEliteMajor I actually didn't see the link you posted before I responded, but I think it was the same link I found though.
"Coleby could play a big role tonight to provide some more size in the Ole Miss lineup. After a strong freshman campaign, Coleby is having another solid season off the bench for the Rebels. He is a very good rebounder, especially on the offensive glass, and finishes everything around the rim."
-Scouting report I found on him before the played Kentucky.
I think he is going to be a decent player. Probably nothing truly special, but if you look at next years bigs, odds are they are Lucas and Bragg. That means we would be relying on 2 freshmen to fill a lot of minutes. Coleby is just insurance. He is a solid role player at the very least that can come in off the bench and give solid minutes. Something we will need when he is finally eligible.