🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Double over time!

Everyone contributed!

Nic Moore is officially a Jayhawk for life.

Thank you Lawrence Brown!!!!

Julian Debose is a Jayhawk for life!

Thank you Joe Do!!!

Every player did something wonderful, despite the fatigue of so many games in a row.

Roll call: list them all!!!!

Coach Self backslid for awhile and ran the chop. It almost sunk us, but then he loosened up and the boys won it for him!!!!

D1 adopt international rules now!!!!

One of the great wins in THE LEGACY!

@jaybate-1.0
"Coach Self backslid for awhile and ran the chop. It almost sunk us, but then he loosened up and the boys won it for him!!!"
JB, please describe this as I didn't get to watch the game! Thanks!

@jaybate-1.0 pretty special group! Where's the party!

@HawksWin

Selden lost his touch today.

Then team lost legs down stretch of regulation and couldn't buy baskets.

Then Self went conservative and pulled Hunter for a mistake.

Then the team started running the weave 3-4 straight possessions and suddenly KU looked completely insecure.

Can't recall but seems like first OT.

Then Self seemed to regain his composure, loosened his grip, and let them play to win it without him.

Good things shortly followed. Players got back in the moment, went after loose balls, kept missing but finally Frank took over in their spread sets and this seemed to take pressure off Wayne. Wayne began to play harder and think less. Soon Wayne was making plays including a great follow of his own miss. Perry was really struggling from fatigue. Finally Wayne got a late look in second OT, gunned it in from threeville, and then Nic made the topper play of the game by stealing inbounds pass off Wayne's made three and Nic made a couple FTs and suddenly KU went from hanging by a thread to the driver's seat!!!

Great win that deserves to go high in the pantheon!

Anywhere you want, Special Agent @Crimsonorblue22

@jaybate-1.0
Wow, THANK YOU! I see even great coaches gotta let go & trust their players!

@HawksWin

Hell yeah!

The great ones know exactly when to do so.

Coach Self may have gone to the next level of his career today.

Go, Bill, go!!!!!!

@jaybate-1.0 "One of the great wins in THE LEGACY!"-YES" & "D1 adopt international rules now!!!-emphatic NO !!!

I said on another thread that KU scrapped their way to this win. Once the shots stopped falling they kept so many live balls from going Germany's way. Then we'd go down and miss and keep it alive.

Oh and the game should have ended in regulation I think with Mason shooting two, but the refs swallowed their whistles!

Germany came into the game having shot 35-130 from 3 (27%) and in this game managed to hit 10-27 (37%). They averaged 17.5 points per game from the 3 against weaker competition and yet they got 30 points from the 3 against KUSA that had one of the better defenses...hard to plan against something like that.

More importantly...Did anyone notice that the Pool group A where Germany played had only 5 teams instead of the 6 teams all other pools had and they had to play only 4 games instead of 5 games in the initial round? Now wonder that KUSA was more tired than the Germans.

I had heard that Germany's highest mpg guy was only 23 or something for the tourney coming into our game. Can't verify that.. Compare that to Selden/Mason's epic minutes.

German team stats...

!Germany WUG.JPG ↗

Germany lost to Estonia by 30 pts in match play?!? Yikes, didn't realize that.

@RockkChalkk

I am not sure why they show the score that way but no, Germany beat Estonia by 30 and was unbeaten prior to playing KUSA... :(

People far more knowledgable about basketball than I have been against the chop play for awhile. I am still a believer as long as you need a two or three instead of just a three.

From what I've seen/gathered, the chop play has so many variations based on what the defense gives.

We see the hand off in the Mario's Miracle. The back door cut dunk for Taylor late in the MU game, and fade from Bmac in the ISU game (lucky bank shot but still got a clean look), one of the late 3s by Frankamp in the tourney, a decent look when Elijah drove. He passed it to Tharpe of course for the missed 3.

Am I missing something? I thought about starting a thread to analysis the chop play but I figured if everyone was against it, then I could be set straight in a reply lol

@JhawkAlum I love it just from the reasons you gave. There are a TON of variations. And with it, you can lull your opponents to sleep for an unexpected bucket. I would say that we have seen only a sample size of plays that Bill can run off of it. And that is why he sticks with it.

@Kcmatt7 I also didn't mention the plethora of times it worked in less dramatic situations.

I have just seen way to many last possessions with a pick and roll that gets trapped and throw up a 36 foot guarded shot. Granted, the chop play has failed before. Which play hasn't? But from what I've seen, it gets a decent look more times than not.

@JhawkAlum Yea it works well because it doesn't allow the opposing team to double the handoff without giving up a much easier bucket. So no matter what it allows a decnt look at the 3.

@JhawkAlum The chop play is excellent, but in small doses. Self used it by and large perfectly in the WUG. Last season, though, it was way over used (much of the time with four perimeter guys). We were in the dilemma that Self had put a clamp on our three point shooting -- clearly pressing our guys to get different looks. This allowed teams to pinch their defense to shut off driving angles without much concern. "Bad ball" became pretty bad (conventional definition). This was very obvious vs. ISU and WSU.

The chop "play" is exactly that -- a "play." With certain targeted shots.

The chop play, though, is exposed when it is used as the offense. This was the case in the latter part of last season.

I would also argue that it can be more easily defended than some teams seem to be able to execute. I would strongly attack the handoff points nearer the wing (vs. up top) when the lesser ball hander is receiving, then bring a back side man to trap hard. I'd slide a defender up to zone the open space created by the displaced defender. You could get hit for an easy bucket, but it would be hard to do.

@jaybate-1.0 I would kill to see this game! Someone has got to know where to find it.

@jaybate-1.0 When I saw that KUSA won the game in 2OT, I was just jumping around at work and everyone was looking at me like I was crazy. They just dont get it up here in Vermont. ;)

@Lulufulu It will be replayed tonight at 8pm on ESPNU. Go to a bar or a friend's house if you don't get it.

@HighEliteMajor I'm smelling what you're stepping in. I can see how it can be overused now. What are your feelings on the chop play as a last possession play?

When you say you would double hard on the handoff, isn't that the beauty of a chop play? There can be a hand off, but if the defense is playing that way, that is when the wing fades behind the pick. If they anticipate the fade, that is when the back door cut is used.

But as we see when Elijah exploded against ISU, they hedged hard on the hand off and Elijah simply kept dribbling because another pick is set at the top of the key and got another open look.

@JhawkAlum I like it ... but not all the time. Like the four flat.

I don't like doubling until you attack the receiver with his own defender. Envision Selden at the wing moving to top. Mason hands to Selden. The mid top defender, who maintains his spot (because they switched), attacks Selden just as he's receiving the ball. Doing this nearer the wing (very important). The wing defender, who is now Mason's defender, attacks Selden's back. Mason now behind Selden. The post defender on Mason's side (post defender one) slides to the open zone near Mason, to defend that. The other perimeter defender guards the third perimeter player, but is moving toward Selden with the offensive player (due to the weave), and creates a little logjam.

The only real weakness is if Selden can find post player one (who's defender shaded Mason), and find him at the right angle, inside, toward the basket, over the double team.

Another option is the second post defender zones a bit in the middle to partially cover his man, and the semi-vacated first post man (whose defender shaded Mason). The wing defender could help cover that space by dropping down a bit from the anticipated second hand off spot.

Personally, I like creating one option for the offense (the inside angle pass to post player one). If they beat you, they beat you.

Hopefully I explained that so it can be visualized easily.

Can't defend it that way every time. But I think it is one strong way to contest the weave.

@HighEliteMajor You made it very easy for my simple mind to grasp. You are a teacher at heart!

But it would be tough for Selden's man to fight throw the pick to execute a good double team. I guess you could switch on the initial pick on Selden as well. But then you would have a big running and not fouling on the double. But I definitely get what you're saying.

Thanks for the analysis! I have a more wholistic view of the play now.

@HighEliteMajor Thats why I love basketball man, cuz its amazing to watch and its so intricate in the plays on both sides of the ball.

The chop play is good, but too often it was the only desperation play Self ran in end game situations. I know there's a lot of variations to that play based on the defensive look, but it had become pretty ineffective last season because teams have learned how to defend it. Mixing chop with the 4 flat and occasionally running the chop out of the 4 flat look adds variety to end game situations and makes it harder to scout what Self will do in late game situations.

@JhawkAlum Thanks .. in my example they would switch, so the interference action you are referring to (probably more that than a screen) would be nill. Defenders stay underneath. So the top defender, who was guarding Mason before he went to the wing to meet Selden, doesn't stick with Mason, but stays behind and attacks right at the time of the handoff, basically off of Mason's hip.

Now, if you know that double is coming, have Selden take an inside path and flare to the hoop and Mason could drop a little over the shoulder pass to him ...

I know how I would prepare my team to guard the Kansas chop play.... I'd just tell one of my perimeter players to step out in the path. Actually... since our guards expect to run it smoothly, it is the perfect situation to draw an offensive foul. I'd have a gifted guard step out in someone's path and pull a mini-flop to draw a charge. End of chop play.

I agree with @HighEliteMajor ... it was used properly at WUG, but we used it way too much last year. Even though there are many finishes that can be drawn out of it, for a large part it becomes predictable.

The problem with the chop is it gets your shooters concentrating on hand offs and timing instead of on making baskets.

Imagine having your rebounders run the chop to get in position for a rebound.

It is silly to run the chop for just a trey.

You don't need to run the chop to get an open three. KU gets all the open treys it needs by anyone guy dribbling forward a step and then stepping back. You run it to take up time and tire the opponent with sliding, so you can turn a ninety on him and blow by for a short Trey down the lane.

Time and again it takes our guys out of reacting in the moment and into thinking about execution.

I used to like it. Now I don't.

@jaybate-1.0

Self may also run it because Iba occasionally takes over his body. 😀

I don't know if it has been addressed but a few of the social outlets are calling Mason the real Captain America! That's pretty cool!

@Statmachine THat is kinda cool! So if Frank = Captn America, then Selden = Iron Man