🏀 KuBuckets Archive

!Perry Ellis ↗

Newell: KU forward Ellis a different player at rim this season ↗

A stronger Perry Ellis is hitting 71 percent of his close-in shots this year compared to just 54 percent last year during his freshman season at Kansas.

Fisher, Self: No bad blood, just game on ↗

from the San Diego Union-Telegram

SDSU and Kansas coaches back on good terms after recruiting flap

Jayhawks stress defense in lead-up to Aztecs

Defense, as one might expect, has been the focus of Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self since Toledo torched KU for 83 points Monday night in Allen Fieldhouse.

Ok, I learned something -- an explanation of the otherwise inexplicable Merv Lindsay signing. Why would this guy come to a place he would never play? Many of us asked this question at the time (with some of those lovely responses at kusports.com - "Self has an eye for talent"; "diamond in the rough"; "he wouldn't sign a guy if he didn't see something in him" ). The quote from the San Diego paper is at the bottom.

So, KY and Merv had the same AAU coach, a guy named "Kool-Aid." Merv had no D-1 offers. Kool-Aid brokers the deal. KY switches from SDSU to KU, and a week later Lindsay comes to KU -- Lindsay's basketball value gets "laundered" so he is suddenly more attractive to other D-1s (having been a part of the KU program). Setting up the transfer.

Slimy underbelly of college hoops on display.

However, think about how important that KY signing was? He was our first big off the bench in our 2011-12 championship game season. Without him, it would have been Wesley. The KY signing was crucial.

We were desperate with a capital "D". When we talked about Self "scrambling" that spring, we weren't blowing smoke there. Grabbing whatever he could get his hands on -- Traylor, Anderson, KY -- and if you had to tamper with a committed player and take a Merv Lindsay in a deal with an AAU coach, so be it. After that experience, and the "all in" experience with Kaleb Tarczewski, doubtful Self gets "surprised" again.

As I've mentioned before, we want coach Self on that wall, we need coach Self on that wall. He did the job that had to be done. Absolutely no qualms with it at all.

Here's the quote from the SD article:

"There also was the suspicious signing a week later of Mervyn Lindsay, a guard who reportedly had no previous Division I offers but conveniently had the same Southern California AAU coach as Young, Elvert “Kool-Aid” Perry. The conspiracy theory: The man named Kool-Aid brokered a package deal with Kansas, which was short quality players but had multiple scholarships available after the Morris twins left early for the NBA. Lindsay, the thinking went, would go to Kansas for a year and have his basketball value “laundered,” then transfer elsewhere. And sure enough, on cue, Lindsay transferred the following year to New Mexico (where he remains buried on the bench)."

@HighEliteMajor - I'm not sure I'd call this deal "slimy." First... the total details aren't known. There may be a connection with Merv (probably is), but we don't really know how that connection happened. Was it "brokered" by "Kool-Aid?" Wording is everything, and the way that reads there is a NCAA infraction committed because it infers Kool-Aid was paid. It could just as easily be that Kool-Aid conversed with Townsend, that it might help the deal to include Merv because Merv and Kevin were close friends. Recruiting is all about connecting the pieces, and those pieces are often friendships.

I think we like to label anything "slimy" when the details come later. We feel like we were left out in the cold and there wasn't transparency. There is never total transparency in recruiting, and never will.

Did Larry Brown make a package deal with Ed Manning to land Danny? Who knows... and who cares. The only factor that really matters is if NCAA rules were followed.

Going back to the Kevin-Merv connection.... there is no bad karma on that deal. Merv was given more of an opportunity than he probably deserved. His rep got lifted, and he should be making the most of it. In the least, he's getting a college education paid for. He is definitely not a victim in this, more like a beneficiary. The only hurt party was SDSU... and they missed on a recruit. They miss on plenty of recruits, and they get their fair share of recruiting victories, including victories over us.

I tend to believe the articles when it comes to mutual respect of these two coaches. Both are competitors, and don't like to lose to the other. Sometimes comments will be made, in the heat of the battle or after a loss. But in the end, both respect each other and are happy to continue a competitive relationship. The one thing about competition, it takes at least 2 sides for it to exist.

After saying all of this... if we lose to the Aztecs, I'll probably say something inappropriate about Fisher. Nothing fair about emotions, and emotional blurts! :)

@drgnslayr Sure, I understand what you're saying.

The reason I said "slimy" is that, if the narrative is believed, Self did not make contact with KY after he had committed, as he stated. However, the AAU coach (Kool-Aid), who was in contact with both Self/Self's staff and KY, as a middleman, ensured that KY would back out of his commitment to SDSU; and did so in return for another one of his players (Merv) getting a scholarship for the purposes of making him more attractive to other colleges after a year at KU. A convenient quid pro quo. "Kool-Aid" brokered the deal -- if the narrative is to be believed.

How about "distasteful" instead of "slimy"? That's distasteful to me.

A lot of things in life are distasteful, but necessary. I'm not criticizing it. It's how the game is played, and I enjoy winning. No rules were broken. We were in a desperate situation in the post. And that move got us to the title game. I guess this scenario doesn't cross the ethical line for me. But I do feel as if I need a shower ....

You hear about this type of allegations all the time but most prove not true. If there was any evidence of misconduct the NCAA would be all over it. Even Coach Self is not big enough to deflect an investigation of this magnitude, and the NCAA would love to nail KU like it did after the 1988 Championship season for what could be considered minor violations.

The main flaw in the story is that Lindsay had no Division 1 offers; in fact, he had signed with Texas Tech and de-committed from them and also visited Marquette before signing with KU.

link to Lindsay recruiting ↗

With an error that big, the story folds like a cheap suit.

@JayHawkFanToo --you exposed the SD Union story. Congratulations. But then you stopped short of explaining why the SD Union writer would apparently misrepresent the facts, and why he would propose the apparent misrepresentation under the rhetorical convention of in his words a conspiracy theory. This seems loosely similar to a limited hang out technique in the psy-ops/propaganda field. And all of this leaves unspoken why KU's Keating felt compelled to arrange the game and why Self went along? Would it be fair to say that your catching them with their technique showing implies there is more to the story? Or are you comfortable with mistaken reporting, as an explanation and Keating arranging the game as unrelated coincidence?

Re: Ellis--his scoring efficiency has been nothing short of superb. But can we get some stats to indicate if it holds up against L&A 4s?

I'm hijacking this thread, sorry, but Brannen Greene ‏@b_greene14 tweeted 2 hours ago:

"If I said it, I meant it. There's no way around it."

What the heck could that mean??

I am confused about laundering Merv.

I don't see how an AAU coach, or anyone else, gains more by Merv going to UNM than to TTech, or Marquette.

Someone school me on laundering marginal players.

Is this bogus nonsense, or is there something substantial here?

@jaybate 1.0

Snopes is full of stories that someone initially and incorrectly reported and soon the story gets quoted all over as being true. I read before that Lindsay did not have any Division 1 offers and apparently the writer did too and was too lazy to check the facts; obviously the Newspaper's fact checker must have been busy that day as well. You have to admit their story is more entertaining than the factual story, and interesting stories sell papers.

SDSU has been a program on the rise and so has Long Beach State and Coach Self has always tried to schedule a game or two in Southern California against decent competition. Long Beach State came to AFH a couple of years ago and a return game is probably in the future. With the demise of the hardwood series between the Big 12 and the PAC 10, scheduling SDSU seems like a sound decision and consistent with KU and Coach Self philosophy. This explanation is as or more plausible than the conspiracy put forward by the SD Union, but not nearly as sexy. wouldn't you agree?

@JayHawkFanToo --failure to fact check is a real phenomenon. Use of failure to fact check could also, i suppose, be a fallback alibi in an intentional misrepresentation, could it not? Coupled with the apparently conscious introduction of an unattributed conspiracy theory in a big city daily makes my antennae go up. File it under Hmmm for now, I guess.

Re: Ellis--his scoring efficiency has been nothing short of superb. But can we get some stats to indicate if it holds up against L&A 4s?

Looking forward to seeing if Ellis can keep up his progression or if he is taking advantage of lesser players. Looks like this should be another good test. We can't afford to have him missing bunnies or worse, disappearing from too many games in the conference.

Also, Kudos to KSU in defeating OSU to open the conference. This should be one crazy ride in the Big 12 this year with our youngsters. Enjoy the ride!

@eastcoasthawk No easy conference road games. Oklahoma St loses to KState, Duke loses to Notre Dame, Tech kept it close with ISU for most of the game yesterday. Even Arizona and Syracuse struggled at home with middle-of-the-pack conference teams yesterday.

Kudos to SMU and Coach Brown for knocking off UConn yesterday as well.

A stronger Perry Ellis is hitting 71 percent of his close-in shots this year compared to just 54 percent last year during his freshman season at Kansas.

How weird is that ? A player improves from his freshman to sophomore year?

I wish all freshmen had that opportunity.

After the KSU win and other close conference games yesterday, for all of you older classic movie fans, Margo Channing (Bette Davis) called the Big 12 (from the great beyond) and left this message:

"Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride."

P.S. Full disclosure requires me to say that the original quote used "night" instead of "ride."

@HighEliteMajor - I'm sure calling just about all recruiting "distasteful" probably fits the bill. Recruiting mimics used car sales. But.. someone has to do it. It's a part of life. And there are quality used car salesmen (like Self) and guys you wouldn't leave your sister with alone for 5 seconds (shall I say Calipari?).

Might as well throw politics into this. When you put the word "Congressman" and "secretary" in the same sentence, what do you imagine the rest of the sentence says? (actually, in one particular case, if you put "President" and "intern" in the same sentence...)

Politics are probably the best comparison to basketball recruiting. Everyone knows the process is often distasteful, but no one believes their own politician or coach are involved in distasteful actions.

Now.... on to politicking: "Bill Self for President!"

@drgnslayr

"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."

I believe the concept applies to college sports recruiting as well...

Bravo, @JayHawkFanToo !

I guess we should just focus on the tasty results... especially when applied with a side order of "sour" kraut!

;)

@drgnslayr I would always believe my own politician would do something distasteful, just like any other politician. I'd just hope mine was smart enough not to get caught.

Sorry to see that Ellis was not able to maintain his level of improvement against a tough opponent. Looked more like his early season play last year. Hope this is not a recurring factor in conference games this season.