🏀 KuBuckets Archive

This thread again .. the lack of suspension of Josh Jackson leads to a KC Star sports page headline, and furthering of an unnecessary controversy. Of course the KC Star was going to go down this road. We knew it, didn't we.

Easy solution, last Saturday, JJ sits. But no.

Here's the KC Star story ↗

Same hack "reporter", Laura Bauer. If you read the article, it is clearly an a attempt to create news, and create a controversy, a manipulate a situation into an issue.

But that is what happens when you don't suspend a player for damaging a woman's car in anger.

It is so silly that folks would suggest no suspension until Jackson gets through the legal process. If the facts are known, then the legal process is irrelevant. The criminal process finds someone guilty by the highest standard -- beyond a reasonable doubt. That, many times, has nothing to do with whether someone is guilty.

So, if a player confesses to a coach, and admits what he did, then the coach should act. If there is significant evidence, then the coach must consider acting depending on the issue.

This isn't like a bar fight where someone may be acting in self-defense where context is extremely important. This is easy - reasonable thing to do would have been to sit JJ. That may not end the controversy entirely -- I know that the KC Star will try to create more controversy, just in a different manner. But it eliminates a huge and obvious issue.

No suspension for a clear and unjustified criminal act against a woman is easy fodder. And here we are, front page of the sports section of the rag .. er, KC Star.

And it's not surprising.

Be ready. The KC Star will surely be drumming up some article or furtherance of this issue for the day of KU's Sweet 16 game in Kansas City. Timing is everything.

I agree there should have been a game or 2 suspension.

My speculation on this article is that this young lady had been informed by her coach a year ago to stay away from Vick after the alleged kick in the face incident. She approaches Vick and throws a drink in his face which not only broke rules from her coach but provoked an incident which created another eyesore for the university.

@HighEliteMajor Other message boards have been 🔨 hammering HCBS & the 😆 slowly dying KC star ⭐️ is milking every last nickel they can from a hate story. So what's new? Nada Yesterday's news is the best they can do in light of JJ being in conversation with Frank about possible Wooden award 🥇 & All American . It's the best that💩 laden newspaper can do. They wouldn't even be qualified to be good 💩 paper 📝 .

@globaljaybird it is news because it's the first time the young lady has spoken about it publicly and on record.

I wasn't aware she had been suspended for the incident, so it was new to me. It also makes Self look bad (right or wrong) in my opinion that the women's coach suspended her and self didn't.

In an age where violence against women is under a microscope( and rightfully so) it was a failed disciplinary measure imho.

It sounds like She and Vick might still be an item.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2017/mar/04/mckenzie-calvert-speaks-about-incident-led-josh-ja/ ↗

She was also involved in a hit and run in the summer. Always more to the story. Her stats are also pretty bad. See Keegan's story from ku sports.

The writers of the article fail to realize that the admission of throwing a drink in Vick's face in the December incident was an admission of battery against LaGerald Vick. There is no mention in the article about the young woman or her family being glad that law enforcement wasn't asked to pursue battery charges against her. Nope, just a complaint about disparate punishment for the conduct of the female athlete and the separate conduct of Josh Jackson. Jackson is apparently going to have a misdemeanor conviction on his record when his criminal case concludes.

It's certainly fair to debate whether Jackson's punishment was fair and appropriate. Coach Self gets to make that call. My concern is that the KC Star sportswriters completely overlooked the crime admitted to by the young woman and don't even mention what an appropriate penalty is for that offense. If the young woman hadn't committed a battery on Vick, I doubt that anyone, including Jackson would have vandalized her car. Jackson may have felt he was defending a wrong committed upon his teammate. That's not a valid defense in court, but it certainly factors into the appropriate level of punishment for Jackson's offense. Young people make mistakes. Let's not ignore the mistake by the young woman that got this whole thing started. I suspect that because Jackson's vandalism was in a misguided attempt to retaliate for a crime committed on his teammate, Coach Self took Jackson's reasons into account in deciding not to suspend him. Jackson was standing up for his teammate. He way over did it as young and immature people sometimes do. Only a car was harmed. All these factor into what is the appropriate punishment for Josh.

Sorry about the long post. But, Tom Keegan's article on KUSports about the same young woman left me completely confused. Anyone else know what the young woman was referring to by "rat"? Come on, Tom. What was she talking about? A teammate? Maybe I don't really want to know.

@stoptheflop 🐀

@stoptheflop said:

Anyone else know what the young woman was referring to by "rat"?

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall...."

@Blown Maybe correct about her, but the Dad has been steady blabbing for months already-they're just trying to keep the pot stirred & in the news to focus on her being a "victim". Not saying she isn't or JJ gets a pass either, but also like @Crimsonorblue22 said, Keegs copy stated her stats & reduced minutes certainly are not what to expect from a top notch recruit & disappointing to say the least. I'm sure there is much info we are not getting in regards to her actions & behaviors as well. JMO

@globaljaybird I can pretty much guarantee that the DA won't be too happy with her blabbing about the incident in public if the case is really going to a trial. I am still sensing a diversion possibility here.

@mayjay that along with what the ku official said about how they were reporting stuff without knowing all the facts. Its important we dont jump to conclusions.

Could the discipline Josh got was the apology and paying for damages and agreed to by the young lady?

@brooksmd Good question..

@brooksmd said:

Could the discipline Josh got was the apology and paying for damages and agreed to by the young lady?

That seems to have been delayed too much, though. I thought HCBS said it was handled internally back when it happened. Seems from the articles that the apology and offer only occurred after it became public.

I suspect it was more of a suspension of privileges plus a very restrictive conduct probation--anything else from December on, get suspended for rest of season which for someone hoping to go 1 or 2 in the draft could cost him a few mil if he drops a few spots being unable to showcase.

Anything less seems too lenient. A 1-game suspension would be ridiculed while the severity of the offense is still up in the air.

I'm surprised by some of the reactions to these stories.

The latest KC Star article is so much more factual than what I am used to here in France. I see little wrong with it.

"Only harm done to a car", indeed! If my daughter was inside a car while a world-class athlete, and apparently a small crowd, was damaging it I would be incredibly upset and angry. Surely that was a traumatic experience.

"Throwing a drink in someone's face is battery" - Jeez.

There's nothing really new in this article, but it's interesting that it's drawing some national interest.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/03/03/yes-baylor-story-awful-kansas-jayhawks-issues-getting-attention ↗

Try not to believe everything you read.

Back in April of 2015 when Calvert announced her transfer from USC there was a discussion on a Baylor fans board about whether she might fit in there. The very first post in reply simply described her father as a pain in the a$$. On the second page of the thread a different poster wrote this (emphasis mine):
"The main issue I believe stems from the face that she committed to Baylor long ago and then opened her commitment thanks to the guidance from her father. Many programs were not interested in Calvert due to her father's intense presence and controlling aspect in regard to her playing time/career etc. She has grown up with a father as a coach and sometimes those students are hard to teach in regard to a new system. Kim won't put up with any of that and that was what many referenced as the reason for her decommitment from Baylor. Doubtful that Kim would even entertain a call from her (or her dad) seeing as now she has Jones and the young talent from LaVega coming in. Calvert is a great player with a lot of potential. However, she comes with a lot of drama and baggage and her success will likely be hindered by her father"
Those two posters probably just made a couple of lucky guesses.

The team was coached and the coach attempted to let her work out of her funk. Those of us that were at the games were screaming for her to be benched long before we knew anything about the drama. She was a ball hog, was disrespectful to her team mates on the court and abusive to the opposition. She was embarrassing to watch in a Jayhawk uniform. Ever wonder why such a star is not playing in the Pac12 anymore?

Copied from the phog. I'm assuming you all read ku sports about her stats? I'm also assuming you know she had a prior hit and run? Probably more will come out.

@Crimsonorblue22 yep, she is bad news. Our players need to consider staying away from girls during their time at KU. It is just a distraction from the main attraction.

@HawkChamp Maybe a few of them need to gain some wisdom in evaluating the people with whom they become involved. They can't get that except with experience. But the same is true for women meeting men.

Girls are a distraction, certainly, but thank goodness for that!

@HighEliteMajor

Among your best.

I will only say that I still have no clear idea of what actually happened in this incident and so I have no way of knowing whether his treatment by Self and the authorities was appropriate. I suspect the reason I have no clear idea is that university managers of this situation managed it so an unclear impression was left in the public' minds. Not saying that Josh, or they did anything worthy of more than what has resulted. But as we have learned with political spin, since Bill Clinton's time in the public eye, the more you Balkanize and compartmentalize stories, even when you have nothing more to hide, the more you create a news vacuum for the media to play anyway they want.

You would think ORGANIZATIONS would learn they are setting themselves up for this when they intensely manage the stories. I suspect they have learned and still think it's worth the ensuing black eye of the media going fishing, in order to keep the media and others as far from their other skeletons, known or not, as possible.

Watching CBernie and Zenger deal with the aftermath of Scalping gate, Mangino, and Lew, it appears they hired Charlie Weiss as much to manage what they did not yet know might be buried, as to build a winning program.

Increasingly leadership in many fields seems to manage to reduce risks of what they don't know they don't know.

And they are willing to tolerate the media's blind fishing expeditions as a trade off.

Or so it appears.

@mayjay I agree. I still think they should wait for all that until they are done at KU.

@HawkChamp said:

yep, she is bad news. Our players need to consider staying away from girls during their time at KU. It is just a distraction from the main attraction.

Hahahahahhahahahahaha, you have too much faith in personal restraint.

18-23 year old hormone driven, handsome men, in peak physical fitness, whom happen to be the biggest local celebrities; God like in Lawrence... Women and girls throw themselves at them. Of course they aren't going to wait until marriage. Many married men couldn't remain faithful under those circumstances, opportunity creates unavoidable conflict. This is a temptation that 99% of the population will never know. Thank goodness!

@HighEliteMajor

In a normal and fair world I would agree with your take. However in this day in age of the Fake news. These guys will never quit. Coach could've kicked JJ off the team and it wouldn't stop the unnecessary and unwanted bad pub.

The thing is the media types can't just report on the news anymore. They have to do an opinion piece on the subject. Like somehow they are experts on the subject. Just look at Trump? They guy and can't even fart in the White House without it being reported and a opinion piece why it's not presidential for a sitting president to fart.

If Coach says he took care of it. Then that's good enough for me. There're always two sides of the story. One side we are forced fed, the other we will never get to hear because it doesn't sell and make money for the media.

@HighEliteMajor Ya, the whole feel of this seems to have taken some dots of truth here and there, and now trying to perpetuate a story to death. Not quite "FAKE" news, but a joke of a story.

How about this: this girl is no saint, just like that soofi-creature either. Sometimes people who push the envelope go too far, and reap what they sow. She throws a drink in Vick's face, Josh & Vick get back at her in a stupid reaction. It's all stupidity, although explainable.

What Josh and Vick need to learn, is that they specifically (any KU player), wear a target and simply cannot be a stupid 18yr old. There isnt any margin.

What the KC Star will never learn, is that a drink in a face, a vandalized car, isnt headline news. The last gasps of a drowning entity. All that thrashing around and floundering is unbecoming...are we trying to drum up 'car vandalism' into the moral equivalent of sexual assault or something? Why is some 'agenda' by the KC Star starting to become an elephant in the room?

@mayjay Completely agree that even a 1-game suspension would look like a farce. Self is caught in something that detractors can spin in either direction.

He does no suspension, he gets criticized.

He does a 1-game suspension, he is seen as treating a criminal act, like coach K treated Grayson's tripping (not a criminal act). Even that was treated as a farce-punishment by Duke's detractors. So Self's detractors would cry "he's treating this like it was just tripping, 1 game suspension only?". Cant win.

I dont know the legal connotations, but speaking from a general citizen's viewpoint, there is certainly a different connotation when differentiating between crimes against a person (physical or sexual assault), vs crimes against property. And then there is the question of degree, which matters in any discussion of a specific occurrence: verbal, vs spit on or drink thrown, vs pushed, vs struck, vs beaten repeatedly, vs attempted murder, vs killing someone. With vandalism, lets see: threw a drink on a car's hood, key-scratched it, kicked a dent in a door panel, bashed a window out by tool or bb gun, or slashed tires, or bashed in several panels/windows/slashed multi tires, or all the above + set the damn car on fire...

So, maybe Self has enough information to put the Occurrence in somewhat better perspective than any of us here or people at the KC Star.

Here's another national story that's very poorly written, but it's still shedding major negative light on our program. Notice reader comments too. Besides Jayhawk fans commenting, no one has good things to say.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/report-josh-jackson-not-getting-suspended-opens-double-standard-talk-at-ku/ ↗

@wissox I read some of those comments. But what else would you expect?. Everybody snipes at #1, and especially most of the other 300+ Div 1 program's fans hate the perenial powerhouse bluebloods.

We even had a logic-fail poster on that link comment about "no evidence any punishment, because it was in house". Genius. How many programs have an in-house option, and use it...many. Precisely to keep the details private, not public.

Just speculating here, but what if Self said to Josh, OK you did it, it was beyond stupid, you are going to get a draconian curfew and other assorted punishments, then we revisit it after the case is formally gone thru the court system. Or maybe he has a draconian penalty waiting on Josh as a step 2, if there is so much as a misstep...?

We can speculate as fans, either for or against KU. But staying neutral until after the court date, is likely prudent, and likely what Self is also doing. What if there is another shoe to already drop on Josh (from Self) after the findings in court?

@ralster said:

What if there is another shoe to already drop on Josh (from Self) after the findings in court?

Self: Okay, you are grounded for, like, a year!

JJ: But, Coach, I am leaving, you know, after this year.

Self: That's what you think, young man!