🏀 KuBuckets Archive

The other tracker is getting long figured we would start over.

So the final 4 is over, Self is back and has clearly talked to the players. Bragg bailed, so we know talks have happened. So what's the wait with Devonte/Svi?

Are they waiting for the Banquet?

Will we get a presser next week?

I think it's unlikely they haven't made up their mind at this point.

Recruiting is picking up.. not sure any of it has been directly related to either player at this point. Staff is after Juiston to replace Bragg and another guard to back up what we have, Thomas Allen seemingly the top option. Allen is not a pg from all that is out there about him.

So what does everything think?

@BeddieKU23 There's been a lot of players who have announced their decisions at the team banquet so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some announcements there.

Just keep in mind that aside from Graham and Svi, Josh Jackson hasn't declared yet either even though we all know that's going to happen at some point.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Yupp Bragg did it last season, I believe Ellis the year Before that.

When is this year's?

Think Tait said josh's mom has been out of town

If there is a potential top 5 draft pick player who decides on coming back another year, I like to believe that he is Josh Jackson.

OK IM AWAKE.

Maybe JJ's upcoming court hearing will result in probation that will require him to stay in town, under the supervision of HCBS.... Gotta make these things work for us!

@Texas-Hawk-10 So when is the Banquet?. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Oh we ALL have been hittin the same pipe one to many times if we were to think Josh MIGHT come back lmao. - -Wouldn't that just for sure floor you I mean exactly reach right out and pop you in the mouth if he were to say -- I'm returning for a Sophmore year lol - -Boy would that ever make some headlines. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I believe both will be back next year.

Most I think knew Bragg was gone.

We know JJ is gone (@mayjay - maybe we could get you a special prosecutor spot and you could threaten to upgrade to felony charges unless he did some extensive community service in the Lawrence area between Nov. - March.)

I think Svi is gone. I would be surprise if he stayed. If he returns, it will just be a pleasant surprise for me.

I think Devonte is back. His return makes great sense as it gives him the opportunity to highlight his point guard skills, and develop more running a team. His stock can go up substantially in that role.

That said, is anyone concerned that we're reading Devonte wrong -- can he really be a point guard? I heard a comment a few weeks ago that made me think. A KU fan said Devonte reminded him of EJ. A guy we thought could be a PG, but is not suited for the role. Interesting comparison.

Graham would definitely raise his stock better than it is right now. So....he SHOULD stay, but we all know SHOULD is a lost word on many of these players. It wouldn't surprise me either way. If he goes, it's going to be difficult for him to find a spot on a roster. Then he could go to Europe as a last resort.

Svi could go, but might find it difficult too. However, GMs may love his potential. He too would improve his stock if he stays. Neither player will vault too high, but the money might improve. It wouldn't surprise me if he went to Europe. His family is big on academia. He might stay just for the pure educational benefit.

@HighEliteMajor Why do you think Svi is gone? Given his parents background as educators and his play this year, I have a hard time getting to a scenario where Svi leaves, even to Europe.

If Devonte goes, he will compete with Frank for draft and roster spots. I imagine that, all other things being equal, he would not want to rain on Frank's parade.

@HighEliteMajor DG is a lot more EJ than he is FM3.

I'm not sure he Is a born leader.

But WOW...if we do lose both players, YIKES. We just lost 2/3 of our experienced scoring ability. This reality would mean either MNew steps up to the BIFM challenge and wills this team to a very deep run in the tourney (F4), or we get TDuval and they work the whole 1-2 punch that we all seem to love about this SELF-ish offense. If we lose both DG and Svi, it's going to be a little thin, especially if we miss on Duval.

I like TIlmon and Juiston. I could see Juiston working the 3 and feeding U-dunka inside. If our perimeter can pull defenders out of the lane, Udunka will have a feast inside. The firepower outside should be adequate to give Udunka free grazing. If they double-triple, Juiston and Preston need to be looking for the high/low dunk.

TNew/Duval

Vick/MGar

Juiston

Preston - nightmare for any 4 and wouldn't be surprised if he plays a 3 hybrid. I hope Self turns this guy lose and he goes LeBron on opponents. I hope Self works him at the 3-4.

U-Dunka/Tilmon - Double headed beasts (I would not work BPres at the 5 unless we go to a smaller line-up)

@Blown Graham's a leader. When Self had to bring in the drill sargent Graham's freshman year, he identified Graham as tge best leader on that team. One of the most overlooked parts of being a good leader is knowing when to defer and with Mason and Lucas evolving into leaders, Graham didn't need to.

I really disagree with Graham being more EJ than BIFM. Graham might not be as good as Mason, but he's a better shooter, passer, ball handler, and decison maker than EJ ever was.

@BeddieKU23 I love Allen's play. I'm just not sure if he is physical enough to play in the B12. If you go bulking him a bit, how would it impact his game? BUT, if we miss on Duval, he may be a bit of a necessity. But with MGar, it would be nice to have some length at the 1-2 spots. I would love to see MGar pull up on smaller PGs and score over them.

@Texas-Hawk-10 hopefully we'll get one more year to evaluate him.

(http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article143442544.html) ↗

Maybe the coaches know. I find it odd this article was written with Self's pic, Duval's creative announcement, and then KU's visit to Brewster Academy for Allen. This may be quite telling of TDuval.

@Texas-Hawk-10

EJ and DG junior year stats somewhat similar...

!IMG_4897.PNG ↗ !IMG_4896.PNG ↗

I am surprised anyone would question DG's bonafides running the show. He won't be deferring to two All- Americans - I think we'll see the 27 point kicking Buddy's butt Devonte.

@KUSTEVE I worry about his ability to stay healthy more than anything. No showing the elite eight game wasn't a good look either.

@Blown I want to see him running the offense without Frank. I think you'll be surprised.

I was not an EJ fan, either of his character or competency. Would award him, at best, a 7.5 on each. Perhaps if he had not buddied with Tyshawn the former would be elevated. If Bill Self had not persisted in turning him into a floor general I've no doubt that his game would have improved. Sometimes forcing square pegs into round holes just does not work optimally. Bill has had to do that often, maybe because of the Nike impasse. Did work superbly this season with JJ; not so well with Bragg. Anyway, Graham's career stats already look better than EJ's, and he likely will blow up his current numbers if he returns for a 4th season, something I think would be in his best interest. I would like to see both DG and Svi return for a final season. Of the two, if I had to choose one I would go with DG. Experienced floor general very much in demand for next season. DG will elevate his senior campaign, not in the manner or maybe the brilliance of Frank Mason; but he is a sterling option to handle point guard duties for a top level Div. 1 program. Cut much more in pt. guard leadership role than ever was EJ.

Graham is returning. I think Svi is as well but not sure.

@KUSTEVE I like that DG. But just about the time I thought DG was gaining momentum and consistency, he disappeared against Oregon. While Frank was tried and true all season.

I thought Frank lived up to his potential and then some. I'm not sure why DG performed so poorly against Oregon.

Wasn't EJ forced to play PG that year because Tharpe was the only other PG at the time?
I've never felt at any single time, that EJ was a leader, or even had the capacity to be a true leader.

DG on the other hand was tabbed by a Marine as a leader, his freshman year. I still think DG decided to take a back seat to FM, and JJ this past season knowing DG would return for a senior year. JJ's comments about DG having a shot at NPOY next season, and DG's moms tweet, tells me DG is more than likely coming back after testing the waters.

I get a feeling Svi is coming back, but thats all it is, a feeling. Wouldn't shock me to see him leave for NBA or Europe.

@truehawk93 Players do have bad games. Ellis no showed in the Villanova game last year and it didn't change anybody's overall perception of him as a Jayhawk.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Maybe my point exactly. I guess it was one of his few bad games? But the timing was maybe the bigger issue than the fact he had a bad game. Sure, I agree, he had a bad game. Oh well, there's always next season. It definitely doesn't change my perception. He's still a great player and when he turns the corner with consistency, he will be a phenom.

1 decision down, 1 to go. Maybe Svi will announce he's returning Tuesday!!

I wish Devonte' could be as consistently as great as Frank was last year. That's the dream. But Frank was amazingly consistent his Jr. year also. I just didn't foresee Frank stepping up his production as much as he did.

Devonte' disappears for games. Devonte's pretty good defense (could be more intense) is almost always on display, but his O goes completely away from time to time. I hope Devonte' is able to tap into whatever it takes to take him to the next level.

Maybe someday KU will have several players buy in hard like Mason did last summer and show out in the same season. It seems like it's always just the one player his sr. year that consistently performs. Jackson and Devonte' were nice last year, but there is another level as Frank proved. And as I believe Devonte' will prove this upcoming season. Who will join him to push Kansas to the title game?

@truehawk93

I agree. The tournament was a NBA audition for Devonte and he passed with flying colors against MSU and Purdue but crashed and burned against Oregon. Had he had good games and continued playing well and KU made it to the finals, Devonte would have likely moved up to the top of second or bottom of first round and we are not having this conversation.

BTW the same person who said Graham was coming back (he has a source on the team) is saying that Svi will be going to the pro's.

Self after the banquet said Svi should have an immediate decision soon, basically all but pointing to Svi at least testing the waters. Will be interesting to see if he gets invited to the Combine.

We'll know soon enough

So no big announcements at the banquet last night on leaving or staying?

@brooksmd

That is correct.

@BeddieKU23

Svi leaving would make a ton of sense given the staff wants to add a post (Tilmon or Juiston) and a guard (they want Duval but it will end up being Allen imo).

No one else is really a candidate

Graham (Self is ecstatic he came back, starting PG)

Newman (key player, only other ball handler on the roster, starting 2G)

Vick (looking at a breakout year, likely the starting wing)

Cunliffe (just transferred in)

Garrett (FR with a bright future)

Preston (likely OAD, starting PF)

Udoka (has to stay, starting C)

Mitch (Program player, loves KU, Self just talked him up at the banquet)

KJ Lawson (just transferred in)

Dedric Lawson (just transferred in, starting PF in a year and a half)

Only other possibility I see is Coleby but the post is already thin so the only way I see Coleby getting processed is if the staff could land Tilmon AND Juiston.

Plus no offense to Svi at all but he is entirely replaceable by players already on the roster. It will be a bit spotty until Cunliffe is ready to go but Cunliffe and Vick is plenty at the wing. Imo we are definitely looking at Garrett being the 4th guard until Cunliffe is eligible.

@BShark I don't know man. He hit a lot of threes for us, right up there with Devonte/Frank in terms of volume, and he had some key buckets in the Kentucky win and in the tourney. I think he'd be missed. Of course, Bill would develop someone else, but Svi is still poised to do good things for us next year.

@BShark

I don't know if I agree with you. Svi has progressed every year he has played and last season he was a pretty solid contributor and I am expecting his senior year to be a breakout year when he put every phase of his game together and has a great season. Sure, I would take a freshman like Josh Jackson but there are not that many Josh Jacksons out there so I rather have senior Svi over just about any incoming freshman.

@JayHawkFanToo While I hope he does stay, I would argue that his progression has been very modest - and, disappointing relative to expectations. Shooting from the perimeter was streaky at best and while he is capable of driving and scoring, he did it to infrequently. More problematically, he really didn't contribute much elsewhere. Terrible rebounder for a wing of his size (same issue with Selden last year) and surprisingly few assists for someone who is a good passer and at least decent ball handler. He seemed to defer a lot; maybe that would change with another year, but perhaps not with more alphas on the way?

I have no problems with any player exploring his options. If Svi gets a combine invite, he can get even more detailed evaluation and make a more informed decision. I hope he stays, but I will never have an issue with a player taking advantage of the rules.

I'm saying he would make the most sense if the staff felt they needed room. Like I said earlier I think the staff was prepared for him to leave given that they took on two more wings in recruiting.

He definitely hit some threes, but Svi giveth and Svi taketh away seemed to be how it worked last year. He wasn't particularly efficient nor was he good defensively. The team really wasn't as a whole, but I think he was pretty easily the worst defender that played major minutes. He was, essentially, marginally better than Vick offensively. He simply shot a lot more threes than Vick, so he had more points.

I think Svi/Vick/Cunliffe are all fairly marginal wings (at least, compared to what we've been spoiled with in X, Wiggs, Oubre and Josh). I don't think any of them is more likely to break out than the other next year. Though I am the most intrigued by Cunliffe simply because he was surrounded by worse talent at ASU than he will be at Kansas.

@JayHawkFanToo

I'm not convinced Svi particular progressed much from he SO to JR year so much as he simply played more, therefore more stats. If you extrapolate his SO numbers, it's not a stretch to say he could have reached his JR numbers that year with more playing time.

All that said, I'm not opposed to Svi returning (not that my opinion on it really matters) and I wish him the best regardless of what he decides.

And yeah count me in the group that believes Oubre simply didn't play enough. He was one of the three best players on that team (with Mason and Perry). His minutes should have more or less been flip-flopped with Selden's minutes that year. That and Jamari over Cheick (at least early on) are probably the last things Self has done that I strongly disagreed with. Not sure Self ever really figured out that team, the minute distribution was really weird, like he was throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick. Too many options I guess. Anyway, weird tangent over.

@BShark I thought the same thing.

@KUSTEVE

I think Oubre kind of gets lost in the shuffle but he was pretty damn good. Would have been special if he stuck around. Not surprised he has stuck in the league so far. Playing this year too, about 20 minutes a night and almost every game.

I wish BMac was at a better franchise than the friggin Kings.

@BShark Are we signing Shakur?

@BShark thought oubre could have put out more effort, especially in that wsu game. Ben Mac deserves so much better! Love that kid!

@KUSTEVE he's going to ISU this weekend. He will sure help them out. I hope we get him.

@KUSTEVE isu. Can't edit or barely reply w/out a lot of effort

@KUSTEVE said in Thoughts on Graham/Svi decision:

@BShark Are we signing Shakur?

Feels like the staff would take the first to commit between Shakur and Tilmon.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Thoughts on Graham/Svi decision:

@KUSTEVE he's going to is this weekend. He will sure help them out. I hope we get him.

Yep. I hope he doesn't commit on the visit.

@BShark In your opinion who would help KU more Tillman or Shakur? Will Tillman play more than 2 seasons?

@dylans

Tough question. They are both so different. I'd love to get both and not have say Coleby. But saying that's impossible, I'd prefer Tilmon. If we were assured 3+ seasons out of Tilmon, the decision is even easier. Tilmon will just be such a defensive presence.

ISU board talked about Shakur not being the type to commit on a visit. KU wanted him to visit this weekend but he already had the ISU visit lined up. They think he'll visit KU next weekend. Maybe we get the last visit and can have the lasting impression?

ISU has beat us to the punch every step of the way with his recruitment. ISU board has been stressing that relationships are key with him from what his Hutch coaches say (Shakur doesn't talk much about recruiting) and ISU has basically been there a lot and he's noticed. That's what they are saying.

Obviously ISU insider is going to paint ISU's approach but everyone knows KU got into this late and its going to come down to what situation he wants more.

The Hutch coaches think he wants to win and make the NCAA tourney, something he'll get at KU. ISU is on some transfers but this team is going to be on the bubble all year with them losing so much from this years squad. Shakur can start at ISU and have little resistance for playing time but won't win as much. At KU he could carve out a rotation and we all know the situation is bigger and better.

@dylans

Grudgingly I'd say Tilmon. I think the difference maker is length. You plug Tilmon into the rotation behind Doke and this team always has a defensive presence on the court. A presence that's likely to be the difference in a March game when we need our big's to produce.

I love Shakur's game and I think he's a A++ character player that has a chip on his shoulder. He also has a unique skill set for a big (well 6'7) player that could absolutely thrive at KU. The fact that he's 6'7 and we already have Lightfoot at similar height makes it hard to add a 2nd shorter big.

Shakur is a superior athlete that does play bigger then his height so its hard to knock him just because he's shorter. I think he'll provide weak-side rim protection and be a great glue guy that plays for the team. His vision is also something that can't be overlooked especially for a front court player that can be counted on to be unselfish with the ball.

Shakur is the more ready all around player if his elite rebounding and passing skills translate immediately.

But Tilmon offers the length and defensive presence that this team needs to truly be a complete team.

@BeddieKU23

I guess it boils down to whether he wants to be the big fish in the small pond or the little fish in the big pond. No doubt he would get considerably more playing time at ISU but the team is in full rebuild mode and should be middle of the pack at te best in the Conference. KU will be favorite to win the conference and will be top 5 all year but his playing time will be much less.

Shakur is the stereotype of the "tweener," not big enough to play PF and not good enough shooter to play SF. Yes, he played PF and even Center in JuCo but Division I is a huge step up and it is hard to tell how he will fare against better competition. Tilmon is bigger but younger and with zero college experience, probably a wash between them.

@JayHawkFanToo

Yep! PF in a wing's body.

I would favour Tilmon because he has more time to develop whereas we know what Juiston is at this point more or less. If we are purely talking about next year only then I would say it's tougher to call.

@BShark I suppose you have to look at both. Next year being more important than 2 years from now given Graham's return.

I'm more impressed with production than potential. Particularly if you are talking NBA protential. Sounds like Tilmon may be the better option in year 2, but year one Juiston motor and maturity may give him the edge?

@DCHawker

I think Svi's age has to be remembered in all of this. He is still very young. Isn't he about Josh's age?