🏀 KuBuckets Archive

To me the blue blood teams are in order thusly;
KU
Duke and UNC
Kentucky and UCLA

Blue blood cousins in no particular order

Arizona, Indiana, Michigan st, Georgetown, Okie St. USC, Louisville, Syracuse, St Johns( back in day ) Villanova

5 teams IMO are deserving of blue blue blood status.
Everybody else in Div 1 basketball is cousin or second cousin.

@Lulufulu Nice list, but there is no way USC deserves mention in this group. Perhaps UConn would be a good substitute.

USC:

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UConn:

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!0_1494814214011_2017-05-14 22.05.37.png ↗
!0_1494814852842_2017-05-14 22.17.25.png ↗

I might be tempted to place UConn in the blue blood list rather than a cousin, but that might make a certain other Board Rat too happy at my concession!

(Please forgive the format issues with the screen shots. The USC screen cut off an NCAA appearance in 1997.)

I like discussions like this because they're tough to determine who's right and who isn't. And it's a fairly vague term. I'm sure fans of most of those teams you mentioned, like the cousins even, might consider themselves to be blue bloods.

Certainly, KU, UK, UNC are included. History, influence, championships, longevity.

Duke? Before 1986 they had made 4 final fours but not won anything. Sure, they're elite level now, but Duke hoops history isn't as long lived as the three I mentioned.

UCLA? No final fours before 1962, and we've won more championships since Wooden left than they have.

Michigan State? 9 final fours all time. Heck since I came to KU in 1986 we've had 8 of them.

Indiana might be in the discussion but they've dropped off obviously but they do have a lot of tradition.

Bluebloods: KU, KY, UCLA, UNC, Duke.

@Lulufulu

It depends on what your definition of blue blood is.

If you are going to have St. John's then you need to add teams like San Francisco, La Salle, Cincinnati, Seton Hall, Marquette.

I don't believe teams like Georgetown and USC belong in that list and I would add UConn and Florida.

@jaybate-1-0's list of Blue Bloods:

Nicaragua St.

State Penn

Groundhog U

Directional State Institute of Technology

Infinite State of Dichotomies

Dewie Cheatem and How University

UCLA has the most titles. Don't see how you can do a list of bluebloods without the group that has the most titles.

Kentucky and UNC fit into that same criteria. Indiana as well. Duke and KU also.

After that, it gets a little more dicey. I think a school has to have multiple titles (preferably separated by 10 or more years). They need to have long stretches of consistently high performance.

Michigan State is on the cusp of that. They don't have quite the history, but they do have two titles and they have been consistently good for basically the last 25 years.

Arizona doesn't have the multiple titles, but if they did, they would be right there as well.

Ohio State has a strong history, but has long stretches where they basically fade away. Same with Michigan. Florida lacks the history prior to the 1990's.

NC State isn't consistent enough. Same with many of those old Big East programs (Georgetown, St. John's, etc.)

UConn is the toughest call. Four titles, but not really any history prior to the late 80's, early 90's. Still, that is over 30 years of history here. And they do have four titles. That's not nothing. But I don't think they have a long enough history.

@justanotherfan

It depends on what the definition of the word "is" is - William Jefferson Clinton

Again, it really depend on what we mean by blue blood. Many schools the were very good in the early days of basketball are now marginal and many relatively young programs are now very good.

Keep in mind that during the Ted Owen yeas, KU was considered a good but by no means an elite program and only starting with Larry Brown and following with Roy Williams and now Bill Self, KU moved back to the elite level and stayed there consistently.

@justanotherfan I think you must not have looked at the UConn resume very closely if you think they only became good in the 80s. More NCAA appearances (13) through the '70s than KU had (12), plus conference titles 12 out of 13 years from 1948 to 1960, including 10 in a row.

Even if you start in the 80s, sure seems that UConn gets in based on their 5 F4s and 4 titles. KU has the purer coaching bloodline, but it sure seems hard to say UConn has no history before Calhoun.

To be a blue blood program, the success of the program has to extend beyond the tenure of a single coach.

(in my opinion)

@DanR point names and name fingers!

@wissox's list of blue blood Black Nobility D1 programs behind the front universities and their mascots...

House of Bernadotte (Sweden) aka The TNT

House of Bourbon (France) aka The Bane of the Bourgeoisie

House of Braganza (Portugal) aka The Tawny Ports

House of Grimaldi (Monaco) aka The Neutrality Principals

House of Habsburg (Austria) aka The Silver Knights

House of Hanover (Germany) aka The War Eagles

House of Hohenzollern (Germany) aka The War Willies

House of Karadjordjevic (Yugoslavia) aka The Yugos

House of Liechtenstein (Liechtenstein) aka The Secreet Bank Accounts

House of Nassau (Luxembourg) aka The Fighting Exiles

House of Oldenburg (Denmark) aka The Something Rottens

House of Orange (Netherlands) aka The Fighting Williams

House of Savoy (Italy) aka The Truffles

House of Wettin (Belgium) aka The Terrible Twerps

House of Wittelsbach (Germany) The Sausages

House of Württemberg (Germany) aka The Golden Wurts

House of Zogu (Albania) aka The Fighting Balkans

(Note: all fiction. No malice.)

@jaybate-1.0 Entertaining as it may be, I was kinda hoping for a little less fiction from you on this man. :drooling_face: :sunglasses:

@DanR I think that's a good measuring stick to start with! How about this raise your hand if the inventor of the game coached at your school? OK everyone else sit down :)

@Lulufulu

TRUE BLUE:
Kentucky,
North Carolina,
Kansas,
Duke

Faded Denim:
UCLA,
Indiana

Aqua:
UConn,
Louisville,
Michigan State,
Syracuse

Duke is the tough one, IMO. Only one great coach, but the program has 2000+ wins (20 coaches!) and were NCAA runner-up twice ('64 and '78) prior to coach K. They get contact cred from being near UNC and having that rivalry. They also deserve some credit for preserving tradition with Cameron Indoor. Dedicated fans. I'll break my own rule and call them true blue.

I was also thinking that to be a blue blood, the school should have had at least one legendary player. (Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, etc.) Oddly enough, Kentucky doesn't really have a household name kind of player in their history.

@DanR You are right about that one! I don't recall Kentucky having a legendary NBA player as an Alum. But, I think Anthony Davis has the ability to get there in the next decade or so... He might be able to join those ranks. Hated the guy when he was at Kentucky but he is a great player in the League.

@Lulufulu @DanR

Can't ignore UK's Alex Groza, who won 2 NCAA championships and was named the MOP of the Final 4 twice (1948-49). Scored 2,925 points.

And probably would have scored more if he had not been involved with some teammates in point-shaving at Kentucky, which after being discovered in 1951 got him banned for life from the NBA after only 2 years.

Seems like an iconic player to me--represents all the good and bad for that program!

@mayjay UK was dirty in the 40s and 50's. I hate so much that Rupp is apart of KU's history. Rasict old prick.

K-State

Mizzou

Colorado

Nebraska

Wichita St

OH! I thought it said "Black & Blue" bloods.....

• KU
• UK
• Duke
• UNC
• UCLA

Those are the only Blue Bloods. And to me, even Duke could become a question after K leaves. Although I find that hard to believe with 20+ years of really strong history now. It will take more than 1 bad hire for them to fade into the background like Indiana has.

Close behind:
- Florida
- Indiana
- UConn
- Arizona
-

@mayjay Great points on UConn. But what's your gut feel on UConn now? Are they a destination job? Are they a top-recruit mentioned pick? They seem to me, at least, to be B-tier.

@Kcmatt7 Well, the older generations most definitely were more racist. Not just deep South. Even in KS. Especially rural KS.

Somewhat tangential, but this is also why the progressives on both coasts look down on the Midwest/rural areas, as they consider us the slowest to change attitudes, beliefs, values. (For better or worse, of course, hotly debated across several issues, politically speaking).

@JhwkrRedLegs Maybe this Venn diagram has blurry borders on its circles as programs shift in and out.

I ALSO think a measure of true blue bloods is that they are the teams opponents circle on their schedule as their biggest game of the year.... year after year after year. Decade after decade. Beyond regional rivals. Opponents don't ask, "are they any good this year?" because they always are good, and even in a down year it just increases the pressure on those opponents to try to steal a rare win.

UK, KU, NC, Duke, UCLA and Indiana

ALSO ALSO... Sad to say, true basketball blue blood schools can't have a consistent powerhouse football program. North Carolina/Duke and Kentucky are far enough north to not have the full-blown "god, guns and football" SEC mentality (I'm getting into @jaybate-1-0 territory!), so those schools were environments to excel in hoops. IU was always in Notre Dame's football shadow. UCLA up and down in USC's football shadow. Kansas was sandwiched between OU and Nebraska football for decades (add to KU the Naismith tradition and it was a prime hoops environment).

@mayjay Groza... not exactly a household name, but a fantastic representative of Kentucky BB tradition. LOL

This is defiantly a very debatable topic. I think Kansas is the easiest because of the consistency of the program, we have had some bad years as has everyone else but being in the top 5 in just about every category besides NC's (T-7th) makes us a Blue blood. I then would say UNC, Duke and UK. These programs make up the top 4 in all time wins list and are top 4 for win percentage, 3 of the 4 are in the top 5 for NCs as well, you don't get those without being pretty dam good for a long time. UCLA isn't a blue blood because they were great for 10 or 12 years in the 60s and 70s but weren't jack before it and have been hit or miss since. UCONN because they sucked before the 1999 title team (0 FFs and 4 E8s prior to that year), it takes more than a decade to become a blue blood (sorry WSU fans). Indiana isn't jack since Knight left, one good season in 2002 they have 1 FF, 1 E8 and 3 conference titles since 1993, that's not getting it done. Syracuse? don't make me laugh. They only 1 NC (that we gift wrapped them with missed FTs, don't get going on that), 6 FFs, none of which came before 1975. They are 6th on the all time wins list but with only one title and 40 years of good i don't think so.

This is the list of teams I consider blue bloods and the reason why also

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So a side question. - -If I'm not mistaken we have picked up 6 games on Kentucky this year- -- - so far in ALL time in the game of College Basketball right ? - -So how many are we behind them? - -I was thinking some where around 10 games - -is that right? - -let me know. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 We started the year 20 back. UK went ape poop with two 38 win seasons recently. Hopefully it’s single digits after next season.

@jayballer73 I think UK finished with 26 wins, and we have 31, so we have gained 5. Hoping to get to 7!

@mayjay

Correct. I posted all the number yesterday after the game. 15 behind as of today and could got to 13. I believe UNC is now 20 games behind after being in front of KU for a long time. Coach Self sure has moved the needle in the right direction.