🏀 KuBuckets Archive

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I'm torn on this issue. With so many factory jobs gone to places like Mexico and China. It's really hard for a low wage earner to make a living wage. Yet I also understand economics. Whether you like it or not a business can't survive unless it makes a profit. No profits no business.

So are we just kidding ourselves by raising the minimum wage, or is it just the beginning of the end? Something that just has to be done?

For the record I prefer Church's Chicken.

@DoubleDD I would love to see the salary tables for corporate management before I could reach a conclusion on how a $15 min wage would affect any particular company.

I am actually not a fan of an immediate move to a min wage up to $15. But I think companies would find it in their own self interest to create incentive and longevity raises for their entry level workers. Don't just grow your business--find a way for your employees to want to stay with you while it grows!

The average worker in the USA makes about $37,000.

The average CEO makes nearly $12,500,000.

$15 an hour is about $31,000 a year, but you have to remember that many hourly workers don't work a full 40 hour work week because they are only given part time hours to avoid benefits, so most people at $15 would actually still only earn less than $25k per year. And that's without paid vacations or paid sick leave, so that figure assumes they work 30 hours every week without taking any time off.

Companies could easily remain profitable if the pay scale were more equitable - in 1980, the average CEO made 42 times what the average worker made. By the 90's, that was 107 times. Today, it's over 330 times more. If CEO pay were still along the lines of 1980's salaries, CEO's would make about $1.3m per year even with the average employee seeing their wages go to $15/hr.

Of course, this is on a large scale, but I am sure you can find lots of companies where the salary scale is skewed significantly towards management at the expense of rank and file talent.

Of course, the people making the salary decisions are also the ones earning the most...

@justanotherfan According to this, ↗ Popeye's current CEO made $3,889,687 last year.

That's about 129 times what her 15-buck-an-hour employees would make, which these days is probably on the low end of the outrageousness spectrum, although--let's be honest--it's fried chicken, not tech or big pharm. Reportedly, she did a pretty good job, and Popeyes was bought by RESTAURANT BRANDS INTL (Burger King/Tim Hortons)

New owner CEO ↗ gets $6,173,993 / year, so he makes in one day what a 15-buck-an-hour employee makes per year.

Good lord, I just realized if Restaurant Brands International gets ahold of Taco Bell they'll control all four North American food groups... donuts, burgers, chicken and burritos. :dizzy_face:

I'd work for next to nothing if my boss was actually human. Nothing like working for an unappreciative d-bag who NEVER (no hyperbole) thanks or compliments any employee. Yes, I'm looking.....

I keep waiting for the cost of living to go down, not sure the solution but something must change.

@nuleafjhawk guessing @Red_Rooster is not your boss or 7 other members? I hear so many people say the same thing. Amazes how people treat each other. Weren't they ever in your position?

@Crimsonorblue22 It frustrates me to no end. First of all, because I just think we should be kind to each other, no matter what position we hold. Secondly, are they really so stupid (YES) that they can't figure out that if they treat their employees well, the employees will respond resoundingly. Hell, most people don't care about the money - it's frosting, they care about being told they're doing a good job. Or they are appreciated. Stuff like that. Seems like there is an old book somewhere that addresses this - "Love your neighbor as yourself". Maybe I'll leave a copy on his desk.

@Crimsonorblue22

Some of the best advice I ever got (from a great boss, actually) was "treat your employees like you would want them to treat you if they were your boss tomorrow." Really puts it into perspective. I think some people (unfairly) assume that they have risen to leadership because they are better than the people that are working for them. Hubris, as they say, will be our downfall.

@justanotherfan I worked for Texas Instruments for 9 years, quitting in 1987 to come back to Kansas.

I have been kicking my own ass for the past 30 years. They were a GREAT company to work for - you're welcome for the free endorsements, T.I. But they really were. The pay was very good, but more importantly, everyone that I ever spoke to in management seemed to go out of their way to treat me with respect. Not just because I always wore KU stuff either! Lol.

My current boss has no clue what the real world is all about. It's a family owned business, been in their family for around 70 years and he cannot relate to what real people have to go through on a daily basis. True story - one time I asked him for a (well deserved) raise - he handed me a brochure - Consumer Credit Counseling. He told me I made enough money, I just needed to manage it better. I told him that if I took that home to my wife, she would come here and beat the piss out of him. And she seriously would have.

@nuleafjhawk she need any help? What a douchebag! I'm guessing there's not a lot of options?

@Crimsonorblue22 Not really. That is, if i want to stay in this town. (Which I don't necessarily - but the wife does....) The problem is that i really love my job and my customers. I feel like i do a very good job. I like everything about it - except the Horrible Boss. (They should make a movie).

Anyway - this has been good therapy today! I'll get over it.

@nuleafjhawk Sounds frustrating at best. Admire your sticking it out--I couldn't have!

Just remember, anything you post can be read by anyone using google, not just members who logged in. So, if anyone where you work has ever seen this user name, or if anyone has seen it and wants any dirt....

@nuleafjhawk Sounds very similar to my situation and why I recently left the car dealership business. Will miss several customers but when everyone doing my job at a less effective rate is making more money than me (most mechanics are commission, they were paying me several dollars less than the others while I flagged more, basically making more money off me) and I'm told after the boss buys $700,000 airplane that they can't afford to give me a raise, down the line I had to go.

My view on minimum wage is this. Minimum wage jobs aren't 'supposed to be' jobs for someone to make a living on. They're to supplement someones income or provide a nice wage for a teenager. Generally teens don't complain about the minimum wage, do they? When the liberal media shows some story about a single mom or dad trying to raise a family while working at MCD's and says this isn't right, I think, well, maybe it is right. How are you going to sell dollar burgers by paying someone 15 bucks an hour at a minimum? Raise it to 15, then the person who is already making 15 says, uh, you're paying me minimum wage now? How about that raise because I'm doing more work, more skilled work than the minimum wage person.

@wissox

I agree. The minimum wage was never mean to be the main source of income for an adult. My grandson who is in HS works evenings as a Tae Kwan Do instructor (he is a black belt) and during the day he works at Domino's taking phone order and making $8 per hour and has no complaints. Many kids that work at fast food places are grossly overpaid even at minimum wage.

Perhaps an individual who is working a minimum wage job should not be having kids he /she cannot support and then expecting tax payer's support.

In the old days, we used to get an education, get a job with a decent pay, get married and then have kids when we were able to support them without help from the government; too bad tings are ass-backward now a days and taxpayers have to bear the brunt of the irresponsibility of some people.

@JayHawkFanToo One benefit of minimum wage jobs are that they're supposed to provide motivation to further yourself so that someday you'll make a livable wage. I worked hard during my summers in college, laboring for my brothers masonry company. It was a great motivator to go back to KU because I knew that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life making mortar and slinging shovel fulls of it up onto scaffolds!

@JayHawkFanToo it's to bad you couldn't raise all the kids in the world in your kc burb home and all kids would have the same shot your kids and gkids had. Maybe you could mentor some kids in the Wyandotte district?

The problem is that wages have stagnated. There are lots of jobs out there that are not minimum wage jobs, but are less than $15 and absolutely are assumed to be jobs that you can support a family on. Here's a list of jobs available from the state, along with the hourly wage:

http://admin.ks.gov/services/state-employment-center/job/job-postings ↗

We have nurse aides for less than $12. Corrections officers for less than $14 an hour. That's $25,000 and $29,000 a year, respectively. Those are salaries they expect you to survive on. The nurse aide job requires a 90 hour post HS course. The corrections officer requires only a HS diploma or GED.

And they wonder why these positions often remain unfilled.

Ultimately, the attempt to raise the minimum wage isn't to make HS kids rich. It's to raise the salary floor so there are fewer FT positions out there for $9-$13 an hour.

Couple things here on the topic of income. First of all I don't think very many places pay minimum wage, just had lunch with my wife at subway that had sign starting at $9 and yes it takes very little skill to find a job better than that. The trouble is that wages in general are just too low. Take my situation for example me and wife both work full time for $16-$20 an hour, both have an education me from a technical school, her from the University of Kansas. We live in a $140,000 house, drive older vehicles that are paid for (me a 99 pontiac, her an 03 tahoe) and we can not afford to have a second child. My 2 year old cost about $1200 a month between daycare, healthcare and necessities. We have no fancy TVs or videogame systems or anything like that(internet is it), but we have to scrape and claw month after month to get bye. If you go back and look at how much less people paid in taxes 30+ years ago and how much less health insurance was(Obamacare cause a 35% increase for me). I just keep working as does my wife trying to get somewhere but most years my property tax goes up every year along with the mentioned insurance and the cost of living in general increasing while pay stays the same. Its just not a good ratio. The baby boomers had so much better benefits and pensions than we do, the american worker is to expendable, people aren't getting yearly raises and bonuses, labor is cheaper in other counties. Its just crazy to me to take a step back and look at my grand father who worked for the Salina Journal for 45 years no education besides highschool, raised 7 kids including my mom, lived in a middle class neighborhood and retired early at the age of 60. My wife and I both put into our retirement fund as much as we can but will most likely be working into our 70s. America used to reward hard work I'm not so sure it does anymore.

Yet is raising the minimum wage really going to help? Look I get the humanistic side of the issue. Nobody wants to watch a fellow citizen suffer. Yet are we punishing those that do to help those that can't and won't? In a true capitalist society the market decides the worth and value of the wage of a worker. If a position/craft is in high demand a company/corporation will pay more to fill that position. If anybody can do the job or be easily replaced then the wage will go down to fill such positon. Think about it? If you owned a business? Why pay top dollar to fill a needed position, when you can basically hire anybody off the street? By setting a minimum wage, you're setting a fake value of services rendered. This can help those with little to no education/skills, but it can also hurt the person that does have an education/skills.

Where do we place the blame?

1. Our Government -- They did not protect our borders, citizens, and companies. They marched us into a global economy with nations that haven't paid the price and fought the wars. A price and war that the American workers have, to bang out a decent livable wage and retirement plan. Our people and companies have been forced to compete with nations and companies that basically have slave labor. Our government did this with their outrageous trade agreements and high taxes.

2. Our Education system -- Too many colleges care more about getting paid than they do about the wellness and minds of the Students that attend their campuses. The idea if you just get an education, everything will be fine is just outdated. Too many kids are getting degrees in job markets where it is saturated with like minded students. Creating to many workers for to less of jobs. Thereby driving down the cost of wages for jobs that would normally pay a decent living.

3. The closing and lack of vocational learning -- I don't know what happened on this arena? Yet this type of education should be firing on all cylinders. A person can make a nice living in this arena. It is a dream job. Most likely not, yet think most people would be happy making a decent living even if they don't really care about the job.

4. Illegal immigration -- I figure I'll draw some ire with this one. Yet it's true. I hear it all the time they do the jobs nobody wants to do. You know why? Because these jobs don't pay enough. That's why. If there wasn't a plethora of Illegal Immigration workers who work for mere pennies then these crafts would indeed have to pay more. Meaning if they pay more people might be interested. Yes that would mean we might have to pay a little more at the store for some items, yet I have to think it would be only right. Besides we're paying one way or another. I rather pay at the store than having the government forcing me to pay.

Hope I didn't offend anybody. Just my two cents.

@DoubleDD #3 did you read @kjayhawks ?

@Crimsonorblue22

Yea I did. I really feel that colleges should focus on getting their students jobs as much as they educate them for said jobs.

I only say this because it cost a small fortune to attend such colleges.

@DoubleDD was that an alternative fact? I'm talking tech schools, not colleges. Vo tech, welding, fire science, etc. Not sure if the cost of those have gone up like the state colleges. I do know enrollment at juco's have gone up.

@Crimsonorblue22

A lot of them have closed. Do remember when you were in High School and they offered vocational skill classes?

I spent 2 months trying to find a carpenter to replace my big bay window that was taking out by a tornado. Yes 2 months I had to live with plywood covered over my window... I'm going to wait another 2 months to get my roof replaced.

@DoubleDD the high school my kids went to has a great ag Dept. They teach welding, all kinds of building in their shop. Drafting, ag mechanics, plant and turf, all I can think of for now. 3 ag teachers, plus 2 that teach drafting and other tech classes. All hs's teach so many different computer and broadcasting classes. Our hs has a class where kids can get a cmt. Lots of options for kids that can't make it to college. We have a few go to hutch juco and do the fire science program. Quite a few go into their nursing program. Lots of options.

@Crimsonorblue22

What's a Cmt? Sounds like you're old High School has things going in the right way. So many not so much.

@DoubleDD certified medication technician . It's not my school. I'm sure my school still has vo tech, but such a small school. Not many choices. They all work on farms and do those things

@justanotherfan "And they wonder why these positions often remain unfilled."

And they also wonder why corrections officers are so easily bought by inmates wanting drugs, phones, and other contraband. My son was on a search team. Scary, scary, scary people, those inmates.

https://t.co/JIgLUCEE5Z ↗

From ks rep jr claeys

@Crimsonorblue22 15 to 20 % raise could make a big difference.

Here in South Cackalackee, the legislature gave all the correctional officers a $1,000 raise, and none to the rest of the state workers. That is about 3%. Oddly, they can't get enough applicants and the ones they get have a huge turnover rate during year one when they meet the wonderful cutthroats they will be spending 12 hr shifts watching.

@mayjay crazy I read that right after I saw his post. El dorado prison has had some problems lately.

@Crimsonorblue22

There have been problems, and nobody wants to deal with that for $14 an hour.

@DoubleDD

Is it the immigrant's fault, or is it the company that hires them for just pennies, pays in cash to avoid payroll taxes, houses them in the equivalent of slave camps (anywhere that has the locks on the outside of the trailers instead of the inside is a slave camp) and makes them work more hours than allowed by the department of labor, all so the company can squeeze out a little bit more profit?

It's easy to blame immigrants because we could (maybe) just get rid of them. But then what happens with the companies that are breaking Tax law, labor law, and criminal law (false imprisonment). Are we prepared to also prosecute and fine, arrest or otherwise punish them for breaking our laws. The immigration debate always centers on "we are a nation of laws that must be enforced." That's true, but many back away from punishing the corporations, CEO's and others that violate at least three bodies of law along the way because frankly its just easier to deport an immigrant because they don't have access to a high powered lawyer to defend them. And they said justice was blind...

@justanotherfan I think it is interesting that businesses have driven the flow of illegal immigration, while the political party most strongly identified with business is also most strongly advocating stopping it. The other political party has failed to realize that the flow of illegal immigrants has helped disintegrate unions whose members' wages have been cut severely or their jobs even been eliminated (Iowa meat-packing industry, for example).

I think it is just one of those ironies of our topsy-turvy political world.

@justanotherfan

I don't blame the Illegal Immigrants or the companies. I mean why blame the companies? After all our Federal government refuses to enforce the law of the land. (well with Trump things are changing) Think about it? We have sanctuary cities? Yes were if an illegal immigrant breaks the law they are let go, for fear of deportation. This is our own government local and federal. (Well not so much with Trump).

Why wouldn't a US company hire illegal immigrants for pennies on the dollar? After what the real punishment?