🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Maybe I can go back further, but as a geography person, this stuff is interesting. Mileage is to first round site.

2017 1 Tulsa, then KC 221 miles

2016 1 Des Moines, then Louisville 233 miles

2015 2 Omaha 210 miles

2014 2 St. Louis 290 miles

2013 1 Kansas City, then Arlington Tex 40 miles

2012 2 Omaha, then St. Louis, then NOLA 210 miles

2011 1 Tulsa then San Antonio 221 miles

2010 1 OK City (dang, that team was 32-2) 317 miles

2009 3 Minneapolis, Indianapolis 475 miles

2008 Omaha, Detroit, Then San Antonio! 210 miles

2007 1 Chicago, then San Jose 549 miles

2006 4 Detroit 803 miles

2005 3 Oklahoma City 317 miles

2004 4 KC then St. Louis 40 miles

2003 2 Oklahoma City, Anaheim, then NOLA 317 miles

2002 1 St. Louis, Madison, Atlanta 251 miles

2001 4 Dayton, San Antonio 638 miles

2000 8 Winston Salem (played Duke 2nd round, we had 7 losses got an 8th seed) 1006 miles

Analysis:

The committee has been pretty kind to Kansas. The pod system has helped of course, and being a high seed has also helped a lot obviously. But we have little to complain about. It's a great show of respect to Kansas to be given close by first and second round sites.

The last trip for KU in early round games that was more than an easy drive was Chicago or Detroit.

Interesting that in 2000 we had 7 losses and got an 8 seed. NCAA went for the TV matchup and gave us Duke which I'm pretty sure they complained about. Interestingly to me at least is that another 8 seed made the final four that year, Wisconsin, and got Roy's ire when they played the Spartans in the final four and the teams combined for 40 points in the first half.

It's a little disturbing that given the proximity of these sites we haven't gone deep into the tourney more often. Wichita and then Omaha should give us some advantage, but last year teaches that always doesn't work out.

Could you do this for Duke?

@wissox good info, I almost wonder if last year didn’t put more pressure on us being pretty much a home game. Oregon wasn’t supposed to be that far anyway and was playing with house money.

@DanR I could, but it might ruin yours or others narrative. I did a few years back and it showed that if Duke gets a sub regional in NC, then UNC has to go somewhere else, therefore, we get more games close to home than either UNC or Duke. The pod system changed . that a bit. When I get some time, I'll do it.

Duke this year, Pittsburgh, (about 500 miles) then Omaha

2017 Duke Greenville SC then NY

2016 Duke Providence, RI then Anaheim

2015 Charlotte, then Houston

2014 Raleigh (the infamous Mercer loss)

2013 Philadelphia, then Indianapolis

2012 Greensboro (the infamous Lehigh loss)

2011 Charlotte, Anaheim

I could go on, but you see, they haven't been blessed with as favorable of first round sites as we have.

@wissox I don't have a narrative in this. I was just curious about other teams and thought maybe you had a place to easily get the info.

Whether playing within a four hour drive in a beige midwest city vs. a 3 hour charter flight to a more exciting place is easier on the team is an interesting idea. We've had a nice situation for fan travel for sure, but I'm not convinced it's better than for any other team seeded 1-2 for the past couple decades.

@wissox

What am I missing? Out of the 8 initial locations you cited for Duke 4 times they did not have to leave the state and a fifth time they went to Greenville, SC because North Carolina was banned from hosting games and the games were shifted to SC. How can you say they did not have as favorable draw as KU?

@JayHawkFanToo In the other 3 they have to travel about 400, 500, and 700 miles. We haven't had to travel more than 300 in the same span. Much easier for fans to travel from KU fan centers than for Duke fans. But I think Duke fans are all over the east coast, so they get lots wherever they are.

But it is more interesting that Duke's 2 worst losses listed were the two 1st rd games closest to Durham. And we know that close to home (KC, Omaha) is no guarantee in the 2nd round, either.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm really looking at it from the distance travelled standpoint. We've had the obvious advantage. But again, don't let the facts ruin your narrative!

DanR said:

@wissox I don't have a narrative in this. I was just curious about other teams and thought maybe you had a place to easily get the info.

Whether playing within a four hour drive in a beige midwest city vs. a 3 hour charter flight to a more exciting place is easier on the team is an interesting idea. We've had a nice situation for fan travel for sure, but I'm not convinced it's better than for any other team seeded 1-2 for the past couple decades.

Here's an easy to use link:

https://allbrackets.com/ ↗

DanR said:

Could you do this for Duke?

North Carolina x 10. Is that close?

@BeddieKU23 You're asking me to do this for UNC? A little unclear on your post, but I will when I get home.

wissox said:

@JayHawkFanToo I'm really looking at it from the distance travelled standpoint. We've had the obvious advantage. But again, don't let the facts ruin your narrative!

@wissox

I'm not seeing an obvious advantage..

in 2000-2017 total miles:

KU: 6,348

Duke: 5,465

2,116 of Duke's miles were on one trip to Salt Lake City as a three seed in 2003. They played in their home state 9 times during that 17-year period and twice in Greenville SC.

I've honestly not really heard people complaining about KU getting shafted by location. Clearly we've had it good, but not Duke good.

wissox said:

@BeddieKU23 You're asking me to do this for UNC? A little unclear on your post, but I will when I get home.

No I actually saw DanR's post and just replied thinking Duke had probably played in their home state every year. That wasn't the case but its happened a lot. I didn't see the full list until after. I assume UNC and Duke have pretty much played in-state most years.

@DanR I've heard people make comments almost every year saying Duke and UNC always get to play in NC. I've countered that it's not true and that KU has the same advantage in the tourney. I'm sure there's a lot of teams through the years that have grumbled (like might happen this year that they have to play KU within a 3-4 hour drive of Lawrence while fans of MSU, Duke, Auburn, Clemson, Seton Hall, etc. are driving pretty far or having to fly to Wichita or Omaha)

Thanks for adding up those miles. I think it proves us both correct and I would say that KU plays in a far less populated state with fewer D1 programs and arenas so there's few options for us to play in Kansas. IF there were, I'd imagine we'd get the same privilege that Duke and UNC have.

North Carolina has more sites that host, so its more likely that Duke and UNC will stay close to home.

Greensboro (53 miles), Raleigh (26 miles), Winston-Salem (80 miles), and Charlotte (143 miles) all host. Greenville, SC (240 miles) also hosts, so its guaranteed that one of those sites hosts each year. For KU, the closest sites are Wichita (162 miles), Omaha (211 miles) and KC (41 miles), then OKC (316 miles), Tulsa (220 miles) and STL (286 miles). After that, there's quite a bit of distance to cover.

As you see, there are 3 sites that are frequently used that are within 80 miles of Durham, and five within 240 miles. There is one site within 80 miles of Lawrence, and only four within 240 miles (and two of those are still 200+ miles away).

There just aren't enough sites close to Lawrence to compare the travel distances. Unless Topeka (31 miles) and Lincoln (194 miles) start hosting regularly (doubtful), that will continue to be the case because there aren't other sites closer to Lawrence than that.

@wissox

There is no narrative, just facts. First, you are assuming that only KU fans from Lawrence travel to wherever KU is playing which is not correct. Wichita would be a lot more convenient to KU fans from all over the state than KC which is convenient to fans in the greater KC Metro area only. Given the option of playing in Wichita, even with the great number of WSU fans that hate KU, and Omaha which is not that differente distance wise, I would pick Wichita every time since KU, as a state team, already has a fan base.

How many KU fans do you believe travel for a game, say in Omaha or Oklahoma City? You will likely have a much larger number of fans if you play in state where you already have a fan base, even in Wichita in KU’s case, than out of state. Duke has already a built in fan base in the state and playing in state is a bigger advantage than playing at a closer location out of state. As far as travel and distance, I can fly to Chicago for a lot less than to Oklahoma City or Omaha which are considerably closer. Didn’t KU had to play in Lexington instead of Chicago because it was a few miles closer even when a Chicago is a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to get to and has a much larger fan base than Lexington? Given the choice of say, Asheville, NC or Richmond, Va which is closer, which one do you think Duke would prefer?

By the way, KU has earned every single favorable setting by virtue of consistently being a very high seed.

As far as the teams themselves, mileage does not make a difference. If it is close they will ride a luxury bus and if farther away they will fly a charter plane.

Distance by itself is not an indicator of preference as shown above. How about this, I read that 3 or 4 of the #15 seeds and 1 #14 seed are ranked lower than Penn and it is the highest ranked #16 seed in the last 6 years...how is that an advantage for being the overall #3 seed?

@JayHawkFanToo First off, I'm not whining about playing Penn. 2nd, every time we play out of state, but nearby like St. Louis, Omaha, or OKCity it sounds like a home game for us. Our fans travel well. The point of my post was more for the sake of the fans being able to travel, not the teams. Sure there might be some locals who might buy tickets because they like hoops and then cheer against us. But in North Carolina, in any location they play, there's probably a lot of Duke haters because they're fans of the other ACC teams in that state. And they're rabid haters too. When we play in OK, those fans who might hate KU are few because they really care way more about football than basketball.

And yes there is a narrative, because I hear it constantly from KU fans. Duke and UNC get to play virtual home games every year. I think I proved this is not true. They, like us, get to play close to home because, like you point out, get high seeds, and because our fans travel well. We're one of the privileged teams. We all receive the same treatment more or less equally.

@wissox

If you believe St. Louis, Omaha and Oklahoma City feel like home, imagine how all those much closer, in-state location feel to Duke.

@JayHawkFanToo I edited my post above to that comment. I think what I wrote bears some merit.

@wissox KU entered the 2000 NCAA tournament at 23-9 and finished in 5th place in the Big 12 that year. That wasn't a TV match up, that was a below average KU team, by KU standards, and didn't have any tournament expectations.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Ok, I guess regular season only was 27-7? I got that record from the link I used above. When I said it might have been a tv matchup, it was because if they had to match us with anyone it might as well have been Duke. I don't remember the game much, but we lost by 5, so we were competitive.

Here's the box score with the apparent Duke whistle.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2000-03-19-duke.html ↗

That team started 3 freshmen in Kirk, Gooden and Collison. What a trio they grew into!

@Texas-Hawk-10 That team actually started the season 15-2 and went 9-8 to finish the season. One really good 17 game stretch and one really bad 17 game stretch. One of those losses was probably the worst i remember since being at KU. 86-53 at OSU. No shame in losing at OSU, but ouch, what a beatdown that was.