Joined by Carson Edwards (leading vote getter), Jr guard, Purdue
RJ Barrett, Fr wing, Duke
Luke Maye, Sr forward, UNC
Ethan Happ, Sr forward, Wisconsin @wissox
Caleb Martin, Sr wing, Nevada
I'm sure Duke and UK fans will be sending death threats to the writers for not including Zion & the entire UK's starting 5
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm sure Duke and UK fans will be sending death threats to the writers for not including Zion & the entire UK's starting 5.
Duke fans are probably shocked Grayson Allen isn't the perennial preseason POY.
I seriously think UK loses double digit games this season. Overrated. They don't even have a player that would have made 2nd team. Maybe not even a 3rd team.
Unless one of those freshmen guards is John Wall they are going to struggle to score, imo.
Nice to have someone from both my teams recognized. With our thin front lines the last couple of seasons I often caught myself thinking how nice it would have been if Happ had come to KU. I hope his game will translate to the pros, but I have my doubts.
The Happ family if you didn't know is quite athletic. He has a cousin who's been a longtime pitcher in the Majors. His brother was a D3 player in illinois as well.
mayjay said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm sure Duke and UK fans will be sending death threats to the writers for not including Zion & the entire UK's starting 5.
Duke fans are probably shocked Grayson Allen isn't the perennial preseason POY.
Duke fans are seriously stunned and shocked they aren't #1 in the preseason poll. Despite basically only having 4 good players.
BShark said:
mayjay said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm sure Duke and UK fans will be sending death threats to the writers for not including Zion & the entire UK's starting 5.
Duke fans are probably shocked Grayson Allen isn't the perennial preseason POY.
Duke fans are seriously stunned and shocked they aren't #1 in the preseason poll. Despite basically only having 4 good players.
And having no depth. And no experience. And no time playing together. And despite every offseason ranking having either Kansas or Kentucky as #1. I'd probably put Nevada ahead of Duke at this point.
Kcmatt7 said:
I seriously think UK loses double digit games this season. Overrated. They don't even have a player that would have made 2nd team. Maybe not even a 3rd team.
Unless one of those freshmen guards is John Wall they are going to struggle to score, imo.
I disagree with this a lot, actually. This UK team is absolutely stacked. They are going to run away and hide in a quite good this year SEC. It would be a blunder by Cal if they don't, imo.
I like KU's front court better, but I'd consider trading guards with UK.
@BShark I still think they are crazy young and don't have anyone in that bunch that I'd be scared of. They return 3 players from a 11 loss team (and should have been 13).
I just fail to see where they improved. They are roughly the same at the guard position as last season, imo. But now they have a much thinner in the front court. I mean they had 3 guards drafted last season. Two were lottery picks. I don't know that they won't be lucky to get that good of play out of this year's group. Especially out of the PG spot.
I think Reid Travis is more the product of a "best scorer on a bad team" than him being really good. I think PJ is a 6'5 PF with no outside game. I think Richards might actually be there best post. But Cal hates him. I think EJ will struggle to adjust to the speed of the game. I think Green is meh. So, unless one of Herro, KJ, Hagans or Quickley is going 18 ppg, that team is going to struggle to score.
They could potentially be stacked if that team comes together. I think Cal's recent teams have trended in the wrong direction despite every year having similar talent. Until they prove otherwise I think this team is his least talented overall (of his last few) but might have better position fits to develop.
I have two thoughts with two different scenario's.
One, this Kentucky team doesn't have the usual OAD talent they usually get that carries their team. Who's the Alpha? They usually have a few. Because of that they struggle in an improved league where as many as 7-9 teams could be NCAA tourney bound. They lose to Duke, North Carolina & KU in non-conference and go something like 12-6 or worse in conference play. 10 losses very easily could happen if this team just isn't good enough because they lack a standout freshman or two to carry the team. Also while 3 players returned, none of them were expected to be difference makers in the NBA so they are in College still. Good for UK, potentially. All three showed flashes but lacked consistency.
Two, this Kentucky team is the opposite of some of the recent teams and the lack of a standout player makes this team more of a balanced attack. The lack of an immediate lottery pick type player shifts this team from 'me ball' to team ball. Having 3 Soph's back and 5 yr transfer come in bring some leadership and stability to the unit that the young guys can feed off. They win 2 of 3 or even all 3 of their marquee non-conference games and win the SEC with a favorable Saturday/Tuesday turnaround for every conference game. SMH at that compared to the Big-12's. They get improved perimeter shooting from Herro, Quickley and Johnson and play more of a half-court game instead of relying on athletes to make plays.
Which is it? I'm still thinking #1
Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I still think they are crazy young and don't have anyone in that bunch that I'd be scared of. They return 3 players from a 11 loss team (and should have been 13).
I just fail to see where they improved. They are roughly the same at the guard position as last season, imo. But now they have a much thinner in the front court. I mean they had 3 guards drafted last season. Two were lottery picks. I don't know that they won't be lucky to get that good of play out of this year's group. Especially out of the PG spot.
I think Reid Travis is more the product of a "best scorer on a bad team" than him being really good. I think PJ is a 6'5 PF with no outside game. I think Richards might actually be there best post. But Cal hates him. I think EJ will struggle to adjust to the speed of the game. I think Green is meh. So, unless one of Herro, KJ, Hagans or Quickley is going 18 ppg, that team is going to struggle to score.
Keldon Johnson is the answer. He is an incredible talent. One of my favorite players in the entire 18 class.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I do think he could be an incredible defender. I'll wait on the offense. I mean, I need to see a game or two to really form a good opinion. But this is my preseason hot take haha.
Admittedly I only saw him a couple times in AAU but I was really impressed!
No surprise that Lawson makes first team AA. If he puts up numbers close to what he did at Memphis while KU wins 30+ games, those numbers make him Big 12 POY and a contender for NPOY.
As for Duke, it all rides on their big 3 staying healthy and co-existing together. Each of those guys is a handful on their own, but there's a question of whether any of them is good enough distributing the basketball to punish the inevitable double teams and slow rotations that come when they do draw the defense. If they do, they will absolutely shred teams with all of the talent they have. If not, though, they will struggle to get good shots and that will be their undoing.
For Kentucky, I think this team has a chance to be better than the last couple versions for Calipari because I think they will defend. The last few UK teams had trouble finding an identity on that end. I think this team will be better on D, which was Calipari's calling card at UMass and Memphis if you remember prior to the OAD revolution - tons of tough minded defense first guys and one big time scorer.
Gonzaga and Nevada are the wild cards - experienced and talented. Maybe not next level superstars, but collegiate superstars that can carry their teams through the college season. I would not be surprised to see one or both of those teams in the Final Four.
In fact, if I had to pick a Final Four right now today, I would pick Kansas, Kentucky (too much talent on both those teams - anything less is a disappointment if they stay healthy), Nevada and North Carolina (gut feeling that they just keep getting better all season). I think Duke fades down the stretch with their big 3 struggling to do something other than just take turns on offense. I think Gonzaga gets a bad NCAA draw because they play in a weaker conference, which costs them a chance to go deep in the tourney. Of course, it's a week before any real games are played. Guys are going to play poorly, get hurt, etc. But that's where I land right now. I reserve the right to change my mind a couple dozen times.
I am not too worried about Travis. Yes, he went off for 29 point against KU in Lawrence in 2016 but 19 of those point came from the FT line. Doke 4 fouls in 11 minutes, Coleby 5 fouls in 7 minutes, Lucas 4 fouls in 18 minutes, refs were calling everything on KU and Travis took full advantage. Next season in 2017 he was held to 12 point and 4 rebounds in 39 minutes while Doke had 24 point and 7 rebounds in 26 minutes.
I believe the big scorer for UK will be Herro.
@JayHawkFanToo I think they're beatable, but I think they will be a real good team. I watched their Blue and White scrimmage, and they have some tremendous athletes. That Herro is a really talented player with real quick hands. They don't have as many big names, but the athleticism is off the charts. Our game with them should be quite a spectacle.
@JayHawkFanToo I think he comes off the bench. I mean he definitely will be an offensive threat. I just think Cal runs Green, Quickley, KJ, PJ and Travis out there as his starting lineup. With Hagans and Herro coming off the bench.
Kcmatt7 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I think he comes off the bench. I mean he definitely will be an offensive threat. I just think Cal runs Green, Quickley, KJ, PJ and Travis out there as his starting lineup. With Hagans and Herro coming off the bench.
My starting line-up would be Green, Hagans, KJ, Travis, Richards. PJ will definitely start over Richards though, Cal has something up his butt with Richards.
I think the starting lineup discussion for kenyucky should be on ukbuckets.com. :)
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I think he comes off the bench. I mean he definitely will be an offensive threat. I just think Cal runs Green, Quickley, KJ, PJ and Travis out there as his starting lineup. With Hagans and Herro coming off the bench.
My starting line-up would be Green, Hagans, KJ, Travis, Richards. PJ will definitely start over Richards though, Cal has something up his butt with Richards.
tbh I'm not sure Richards is what they thought he was. Painstakingly watched a lot of UK's games last season it was hard to tell he was a former All-American. In his defense he just looked like a player that needed time compared to expectation. I wonder what a full year in will do for him.
@BeddieKU23 You are probably right. And they were already dropping enough games that they couldn't let Richards play through mistakes. Kind of a lose-lose situation for both parties. I do wonder what a year of development will do for him.
RE: Keldon Johnson
“I think he’s crazy,” says Kentucky teammate PJ Washington, half laughing and half looking over his shoulder. “Like, literally crazy.”
“He’s wild,” says fellow freshman Immanuel Quickley, choosing his words carefully with the madman sitting less than 20 yards away. “I don’t think he’s actually mentally unstable. He’s just always hyped. It could be 5 a.m. and he’s yelling.”
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 You are probably right. And they were already dropping enough games that they couldn't let Richards play through mistakes. Kind of a lose-lose situation for both parties. I do wonder what a year of development will do for him.
Richards is an interesting case. What I saw of him in High School was a big athletic mobile center that lacked a ton of skill. He was massively overranked/overhyped (probably more of a 30-50 range type recruit on current ability at the time) but because he committed to UK and at his size I'm sure they did it to appease the Nike/UK conglomerate.
At Kentucky as a freshman he was the same player and looked like he struggled being coached up the way Calipari goes about things. Now it will be interesting to see what individual player development he received and what he was able to improve on as well as his maturity which I noticed was also a big issue in why he sat at times
KJ is a talent and probably the best player on their team overall. I'm a bit hesitant to say he's as good as some of UK's past OAD hype machines but he certainly has the opportunity to lead this team if he's as good as they say
BeddieKU23 said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 You are probably right. And they were already dropping enough games that they couldn't let Richards play through mistakes. Kind of a lose-lose situation for both parties. I do wonder what a year of development will do for him.
Richards is an interesting case. What I saw of him in High School was a big athletic mobile center that lacked a ton of skill. He was massively overranked/overhyped (probably more of a 30-50 range type recruit on current ability at the time) but because he committed to UK and at his size I'm sure they did it to appease the Nike/UK conglomerate.
At Kentucky as a freshman he was the same player and looked like he struggled being coached up the way Calipari goes about things. Now it will be interesting to see what individual player development he received and what he was able to improve on as well as his maturity which I noticed was also a big issue in why he sat at times
Usually this is the kind of big that Cal likes and does well under him. I still think Travis is a weird fit.
@BShark @BeddieKU23 I just think Richards is on more of the WCS development path and won't really be any good until his Junior year.
wissox said:
I think the starting lineup discussion for kenyucky should be on ukbuckets.com. :)
I clicked on that link. It actually works, just not the way you think...
ESPN/Nike has Dedric on 2nd team All American. You'll have a good laugh at their 5.
CBS has Dedric 1st team
BeddieKU23 said:
ESPN/Nike has Dedric on 2nd team All American. You'll have a good laugh at their 5.
CBS has Dedric 1st team
Rothstein has SAGBALLS Konate first team over Dedric. I'm laughing so hard it hurts.
BeddieKU23 said:
ESPN/Nike has Dedric on 2nd team All American. You'll have a good laugh at their 5.
CBS has Dedric 1st team
ESPN with 3/5 from the ACC. Just standard ACC cheerleading.
