🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Seems like every Jayhawk fan has his/her own ideas about who we should recruit and what should be our strategy.

I found this on KUSports.com today:

"Here's a quick look back at the 15 other recruiting classes brought to Kansas by Bill Self:

2007

Highest rated prospect: Cole Aldrich 30
Others: Tyrel Reed 109

2006

Highest rated prospect: Darrell Arthur 16
Others: Sherron Collins 21, Brady Morningstar Outside Rivals150

2005

Highest rated prospect: Julian Wright 8
Others: Brandon Rush 13, Mario Chalmers 12, Micah Downs 28

2004

Highest rated prospect: Russell Robinson 27
Others: C.J. Giles 62, Alex Galindo 65, Darnell Jackson 54, Sasha Kaun 34 "

I snipped off most of the recruiting years to focus on the years that took us to our last National Championship.

As you can see, we really benefited by collecting players from 4 different recruiting classes to build that championship team that was stacked with talent and experience.

Julian Wright was the only Top 10 recruit we landed in that period and he wasn't there when we won the championship.

Kind of looks like we do best with players between Top 10 and 30.

Perhaps these players make up the "sweet spot" in recruiting because most don't think OAD.

Even though it was only 11 years back, it seems like a lifetime ago since our last championship and I am of the opinion that more players of the caliber we had back then wouldn't wait it out in college as long and would bolt for the league or foreign pro ball.

For that reason, I'm thinking today's sweetest spot is probably Top 20 to 40, and how much difference is there from a 40-ranked player and a 50 or 60?

@drgnslayr The 08 team was really a perfect storm. Guys just don't stay that long anymore when they are highly ranked most of the time. Exception for UNC and sometimes Duke lol.

@drgnslayr That's why I'm so stoked about this class, we can build around it (foundational class) and add pieces. This is the most important class that we've added in, hell, what?, seven or eight years?

Go back and look how many HS players got drafted in 04 and 05 and you’ll see why it was harder to land top 10 talent. We were still recruiting at the top of the talent pool available those years too.

Kcmatt7 said:

Go back and look how many HS players got drafted in 04 and 05 and you’ll see why it was harder to land top 10 talent. We were still recruiting at the top of the talent pool available those years too.

2005 in particular was a weird year because everyone knew the rule change was coming, so lots of players declared that year. Gerald Green, Monta Ellis, Martell Webster, Andray Blatche, Lou Williams, Andrew Bynum, CJ Miles and Amir Johnson all went to the NBA. That's 8 of the top 20 right there.

2004 saw Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Sebastian Telfair and Robert Swift all go to the NBA. That's 7 of the top 20 there.

And the crazy thing is, most of those guys ended up having pretty good careers. Green, Williams, Johnson, Howard, Livingston, Jefferson, Miles and JR Smith are all still in the NBA. Ellis, Bynum and Josh Smith all had pretty nice careers. Webster and Blatche both played close to 10 years in the league.

Robert Swift was pretty clearly a bust (only played 4 years in the NBA, and never garnered even 25 mpg). Even Sebastian Telfair, who many would consider a bust, played in over 500 NBA games over 12 seasons. For comparison's sake, Brandon Rush played in 481 NBA games over 9 different seasons.

Those two classes argue for the OAD rule being removed rather than kept.

I hope they rework the draft calendar when OAD is gone. Maybe an earlier deadline for HS kids to declare? It's going to really suck when programs get left out to dry because a kid blows up late.

@FarmerJayhawk I'm with you on that. Let them make money if they can, but programs shouldn't have to be held hostage by the NBA draft.

The NCAA should shift its calendar. The NBA draft is always right after the season ends. The date to withdraw from the draft has to sit sometime in May because you can't have it in April before the combine, otherwise its pointless. The current date at the end of May seems about right, honestly. That gives players a good opportunity to get feedback and make a decision.

The transfer portal offers some opportunity. The next step is immediate eligibility for all transfers (not just grad transfers). Sports is the only avenue in which you have to sit out a year if you transfer

I tell potential student athletes all the time that when you are picking a college you are really picking a coach. A good coach can help you develop. A bad one could make you hate the sport, and possibly fail academically while you are at it. Maybe a coach that is good for you is bad for someone else, or vice versa. And this isn't just for head coaches. Its also for assistants. Often, assistants have a more substantial relationship with non-starters because they led the recruiting efforts. When those people leave, it changes the program for those student athletes. But those people can leave (and I am not arguing that they shouldn't be able to) at any time with no penalty.

And before anyone says it would turn into a free for all, do you really think that coaches aren't already recruiting other teams' assistant coaches in the handshake lines? That happens every night. Why shouldn't students be able to do the same, particularly if its a bad fit?

justanotherfan said:

I tell potential student athletes all the time that when you are picking a college you are really picking a coach. A good coach can help you develop. A bad one could make you hate the sport, and possibly fail academically while you are at it. Maybe a coach that is good for you is bad for someone else, or vice versa. And this isn't just for head coaches. Its also for assistants. Often, assistants have a more substantial relationship with non-starters because they led the recruiting efforts. When those people leave, it changes the program for those student athletes. But those people can leave (and I am not arguing that they shouldn't be able to) at any time with no penalty.

YES.

Some players are just a bad fit with some coaches. For better or worse, Self coaches hard. This can lead to flameouts with kids that aren't as tough mentally. Not even saying they are bad kids but in hindsight it's easy to see why Grimes was a bad fit. Only one or two guys were really putting that out there beforehand. I called Charlie as a terrible fit that made next to no sense in advance. Not trying to toot my own horn so much as just put out there that not every kid that ends up in Lawrence is a great fit for Bill.

On the other side of the coin, I mentioned when he committed that if they had a Bill Self basketball player factory, Marcus would have come from it.

@BShark I take it that you like yourself some Garrett. It will be interesting to see how he responds this year when his minutes are drastically cut.

Bill likes Garrett, it doesn’t matter what we think! Dudes gonna get playing time.

dylans said:

Bill likes Garrett, it doesn’t matter what we think! Dudes gonna get playing time.

Ding ding ding.

Garrett is gong to start lol. His minutes aren't getting cut.

@Kcmatt7 With the Moss signing, I don't think Garrett starts now. That doesn't mean I see a reduction in minutes for Garrett, I think he plays at least 25 mpg next season. But his versatility in being able to sub for and guard the 1-4 spots gives him more flexibility off the bench to start games.

I think that is a great role for Garrett. Also helps to be able to start the game by not having a terrible offensive line-up on the floor. I think Bill needs to be careful with who Garrett plays with.

@Marco Marcus's minutes will only drop if they fire Coach Self, and hire Coach Marco.

I think Marcus starts the season as a starter. Since Moss isn't coming until end of summer early fall I would imagine he'll have a learning curve for the system.

KUSTEVE said:

@Marco Marcus's minutes will only drop if they fire Coach Self, and hire Coach Marco.

roflmao -- No now you stop that - good ol coach Marco wants Garrett to transfer out cause he hasn't done squat - - good riddins - -you didn't understand that lmao

@jayballer73 Hey...I like Marco. We're all wrong from time to time. I thought Charlie was going to be good...remember? LOL...

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 Hey...I like Marco. We're all wrong from time to time. I thought Charlie was going to be good...remember? LOL...

You were given ample warning too lol

@Kcmatt7 I assumed Charlie would be better, and that Devon would be worse. Devon was much better than I could've dreamed of- never seen a freshman point guard come in from Day 1 and play like that.

@KUSTEVE Coach Marco Lmao!!

@jayballer73 Lol! Yeah, and assistant coach Jayballer has already found his replacement, folks, none other than Apollo Jackson, who has arms nine feet long and can play all five positions.

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 Hey...I like Marco. We're all wrong from time to time. I thought Charlie was going to be good...remember? LOL...

Charlie was a stud lmao - -He beat Mitch in a game of horse you didn't hear? lol

Marco said:

@jayballer73 Lol! Yeah, and assistant coach Jayballer has already found his replacement, folks, none other than Apollo Jackson.

I love Apollo - -13 - -14 - -15 - etc lol

KUSTEVE said:

@Kcmatt7 I assumed Charlie would be better, and that Devon would be worse. Devon was much better than I could've dreamed of- never seen a freshman point guard come in from Day 1 and play like that.

Look, I hate to say I told you so on both counts...wait I don't hate to say it at all. :p