FOOLS GOLD or no, today's offense was fun to watch. Can Bill Self sleep peacefully with it? Jayhawk Nation to stay tuned!
REHawk
1583 posts
@jaybate-1.0 There you go again, jb, strumming a Bob Marley classic, raggin' on the power of predatory capitalism.
Greene, Svi and Oubre on the floor together? Now THAT would be an interesting combo...esp. if one of them wields a hot hand.
Regarding Manning and Mickelson this p.m. Five minutes combined? Four?
Man O Man, you guys are really ON today. Self infers that Ellis is his FOOLS GOLD GO TO GUY; Self just THINKS OUT LOUD...GETS OUT OVER HIS SKIS, SO TO SPEAK; Self is ALWAYS IN MOTION. Damn, that is really good stuff! SMOKE and MIRRORS, just to keep people guessing. I'm left laughing probably all morning, spitting bananas from my cereal spoon.
@JayHawkFanToo "Coach Self might be just trying to pick the times where he can be most effective...." We saw this last year, early on, with Joel...and with TRob and Withey. Self has been patient and cautious in gradually exposing his big kids to the buzzards.
@joeloveshawks This might sound nit-picky, but, as I recall, Lucas has won all opening jumps but for the Utah contest vs, 7' Austrian.
I think that Cliff would have lost 2/3 of those jumps. Too short, not enough time yet to Hudyize his vertical.
What a terrific opportunity for Thomas to step up and rise to an occasion! Such double/double productions will stabilize his future.
I am comfortable with Lucas starting. He has done a better than decent job on the opening jump, and he covers for Cliff's probable early fouls. Am really puzzled, however, at Mickelson's delayed progress. He sets a frosh block record at Arkansas, then 3 years later can't manage to stay on a Jayhawk court for two minutes? What gives?
I'd like to think that Self regrets wearing down Aaron Miles back when he was faced with the problem of disciplining obstinate freshman Russell Robinson. Miles, Langford and Co. seemed absolutely worn down at season's end; incapable of playing up to par in the Tournament. I know, I know, I have beat this dead horse for a long decade.... Anyway, I hope that Frank can survive the current pressure which a hapless defection and unlimely injury to teammates has cast upon him. His bulldog inclinations will clamor for a full 40 minutes of action. Bill Self must find for him those 6-8 minutes of necessary relief. Frank Mason does not back away from propelling his body into harm's way; and he represents one key player which this team cannot survive without!
Providing Frank those crucial 7 or 8 minutes of rest sets up opportunity to work Svi back into the lineup. His passing is crisp, handles already are decent, and he appears always to be thinking a step ahead of the action.
I don't view this squad as tougher than nails; but these kids are plenty tough. The thing which really stands out, individually they are blessed with a variety of talent, yet they have funneled their egos into team play. They are listening to their coach...even tho at times I am certain they are finding him hard to read. I don't see them winning the league outright. Am not by any means a wealthy man, but would wager $100 that KU will earn no more than a share of the title. Too much parity in the league this year. And too much of a chance that Bill Self won't adapt to his team's strengths at crucial moments. He's a stubborn coach. His tenacious hold on form and style have served him wonderfully, other than in post-season competition. This season he appears to be sitting atop a very different set of explosives. And the conference appears ready to rush his capacity to offer change-ups. If these kids can play patiently, gravitating toward the hot hand(s) in all particular occasions, we are in for a thrilling roller coaster conference season. If one of our starters again goes 0 for 11 without prime focus on sharing the leather, we are bound for failure against the likes of Iowa State or the Longhorns.
Frank earns a 2 minute gasser.
Spread Greene and Oubre at the low corners. Hunter at the key. Svi and Selden bring the ball.
Pass, pass, pass, SWISH!...
or...
Pass, pass, pass, dribble, SWISH!
@jaybate-1.0 jb, I just read a CBS article which mentioned that for 19.6 minutes of the second half Selden, Greene, Oubre and Svi shot a combined 4 pts.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I plan to watch the game again tomorrow; but it appears that you are onto something.
@wrwlumpy Fantastic photo!
Something is going on with Traylor, and I suspect that Bill Self is trying to salvage him, in a parental-like manner. Self took pride in deciding to leave Jamari on the court in closing minutes of Tennessee game, telling him, "They are going to foul you and you are going to hit both freethrows." Which did occur. But then Jamari struggles again in the Florida game...and now the early Sunday morning arrest.
I hope everything works out in the best of all possible ways. The squad needs his refocused contributions. Jamari needs to finish his years of collegiate eligibility in productive style. His struggles and life's story are the stuff of intriguing novels or moviemakings.
@KUSTEVE Steve, in my 73 years I have witnessed many examples of police overkill in dealing with black citizens. For 30 years I lived near and worked in a South KC residential community where, during the 1960s and 70s, if a black motorist was pulled over a second patrol car immediately joined the ticketing or warning or search process. Now I am an Ozark hillbilly who on two occasions observed the tasering of unco-operative lowlife white neighbors. I am well aware of the tough job facing law enforcement, esp. in latenight situations involving bar closings. But I also know that sometimes there exists a law enforcement inclination toward the overuse of force and command. The "protect and serve" rules get trampled sometimes during the process. For all I know, Jamari might have gotten off easy with the charge brought against him Sunday morning. But, yeah, I buy into the proposition that black citizens still sometimes face undue indignities by those who have been employed to protect and serve. And I am also aware that right now, in America, racial tensions have accelerated. Sad for the Jayhawks Hoops Community that Jamari was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope he does not remain bent over the incident. No doubt, Self and Co. will get his attention in a firm way. This team NEEDS him to be as focused and essential as he was alongside Tarick last season. Jamari has come along way too far from the streets of Chicago to allow for a personal backslide.
This incident occurred at an especially explosive moment, as the country has been reeling from innercity mayhem involving police and black citizens. Jamari grew up on the streets (literally) in the heart of innercity Chicago. Although he has forged an almost ideal life for himself in the world of USA competitive basketball, his experiences and natural inclinations might yet draw him toward jeopardy involving late-night policing situations. Whatever happened, I wish for him the very best. I would hope that Lawrence, KS, has become a fairly safe comfortable home. It appears that members of our coaching staff have served as important role models and parent figures. Time now for him to do a bit of soul searching and reflection, adjust his offcourt friendships and activities, return quickly to the avenues which will lead him toward future security. This incident does not reek of Goofy Giddins' latenight fiasco, or of Little's latenight violence at his girlfriend's quarters, or of Brady M's reckless DUI. I hope that Self and Co. can quickly unravel details, mete out whatever punishment might be called for, and get Jamari back on track. We really have needed a more focused JamBam in our lineup. Also, as an afterthought, if the Lawrence police force or whatever law enforcement service might possibly have over-reacted, I would hope that the handling is addressed and re-evaluated accordingly. Sensitive times right now most everywhere on the dark streets of America....
@jaybate-1.0 "...and Dean, who outmaneuvered an entire university beaurocracy to build an informal fiefdom which we might call Carolina Basketball INC." Ooh, nice!
@jaybate-1.0 jb, I really enjoyed your analysis today, esp. the Svi thing. I plan to rewatch that game with an eye to Svi and K. Hill. Is amazing that Graham appeared to do a much more effective job. Perhaps by the time Graham got most of his minutes, Florida had just about run out of gas. Topnotch coaches are such masters at plotting and counter-plotting against strengths and weaknesses! If I can squeeze another ten years from these weary old eyes (and continue to read such precise analyses) maybe I will understand the game at least a glimmer before buying the farm.
@jaybate-1.0 Yeah, Yeah, jb, I get the drift re your analysis of some of my "first impressions"! I enjoyed your post here; think you hit lotsa nails squarely on the head. If we as posters are to pay allegiance toward maintaining enthusiasm for the 3, 4, 5 year Jayhawk players, then Brannen Greene represents a dandy example of a player who deserves our commitment to patience. Hell, if he does indeed stay five seasons, most all posters will remember how to spell his names.
I have given considerable thought to my above declaration that Greene will transfer in May if Svi and Oubre return; or if one of them stays and Self brings in a Top 10 wing player. If one of those two scenarios does occur, Brannen might best pull a red shirt, a la Releford or Little. I like the kid abundantly, and concur with his coach that he will become one heck of a fine contributor before leaving college.
The Oubre thing is very intriguing at this juncture. The kid looks happy on the bench. Perhaps it is true that he and his father have placed their trust almost completely in the hands of this KU coaching and training staff to guide Kelly toward skills, physique and competence...regardless of how long it takes. I view K. Oubre as starpower lurking in the wings. Obviously not yet comfortable with Bill Self Basketball, but when he "gets it," O MY! Does not bode well for Brannen's minutes this season, perhaps next. However, after next season Brannen Greene could be THE MAN at the 3 position (for 2 seasons if the cards fall opportunistically). Tightrope walking for Greene and Oubre right now. PATIENCE in demand, howsoever grim and tedious.
@wrwlumpy I have been very high on Brannen Greene from the getgo; but my enthusiasm for him now begins to wane. As Svi's game improves, and Oubre slowly but surely becomes a factor, Brannen looks to become the odd man out by mid-league season. I have watched that Spartan game 3 times, backing up several plays on the remote. Greene's impulses are still a shade "off" for a talented player with a year and a half in the system. HEM has suggested that the Watch is Now On in terms of a Brannen Greene transfer. If both Oubre and Svi should return next season, or if one of them returns and Self recruits a top 10 wing player, I think Brannen Greene is gone.
@jaybate-1.0 ...and, yeah, Wily Bill stood steady at the stern at crunch time, leaving BamBam on the floor, telling him how it was going to go down...then walking tall toward the handshake line. Ratso staggering toward the press table where he could melt down to cast some whines.
@jaybate-1.0 Good stuff, jb. While you were watching Florida I was watching the Longhorns. If we are to survive and move on, this squad must become super proficient and efficient in dealing with height, length and tonnage. Bill Self and Co. issued a resounding statement to Ratso and crew. Reassuring win on the step back toward league dominance and national respect.
I'm going to continue to differ with you 3 guys. After the Kentucky debacle, this tournament was a huge televised opportunity for Jayhawk Basketball to shed some ugly. Even with the trophy, we barely budged in the AP and Coaches' Polls. Sunday's championship contest pretty much came down to the wire with Jamari's freethrows playing a big part in saving the closing seconds. This was NOT the occasion for Wayne to choose to get back on track offensively and shed his shooting slump. 7 misses, maybe; but to continue firing blanks beyond that certainly put his team in jeopardy. 2 more assists and 3 fewer shot attempts would not have stirred my ire. At the moment, Bill Self is depending on the experience of Wayne, Perry and Frank especially to lead this squad toward fundamentally sound winning ways. Yesterday, they were probably the only 3 team members who might have gotten away with such pitiful offensive production w/o being yanked. Wayne's defense was essential to holding down Valentine, and he did a marvelous job; his ball control was admirable. I can understand Self's reasoning (and patience) in not benching him. But yeah, if it continues in the Florida, Georgetown or Utah games, I'd recommend sitting him on the pine for enough time to capture his attention.
Wayne vs. MSU: 0 for 10 shooting, 2 assists. For a player whom Bill Self calls The Guy to Lead This Team, 0 for 10, 2 assists??? After miss #8, my wife moved her chair to the other side of the room to shy away from my grousing. Granted, he did a great job on Valentine and played a steady hand, other than the selfish offense. But, hey, this wasn't exhibition play vs. Podunk State. Wayne was hogging some shots vs. teammates with hotter hands in a tournament championship contest against an opponent and coach with a history of success vs. Bill Self and Jayhawk Hoops. Leadership?
@HighEliteMajor Well, considering the tight pinch which Oubre faces right now, just imagine the clutter if Frankamp had stuck it out!
If Greene's shooting % remains high, and his focus and defensive effort remain on the uptick, Self will be more and more reluctant to seal him to the pine. So, every minute that Oubre can manage, he must lock his determination in to high caliber play on both ends of the court. Attitude and determination will eventually tell the tale (unless peer injury factors in). Brannen Greene has certainly paid some dues, waiting his moment. Self appears to be prognosticating that Cliff and Kelly will eventually see many more minutes. I'm hoping that they will believe in buying in to the process, and will stayed focused both on and off the court. They have signed on with a system which demands TIME for maximum adjustment. Regarding the impact of their bench minutes on current and future recruiting, whosoever declared that Bill Self was swaying on a high tightrope certainly painted an emphatic picture.
@HighEliteMajor Barring injury or offcourt infractions, don't you suspect that Oubre will be earning his 20+ minutes by January? And thriving by February?
@JayHawkFanToo I was puzzled (actually disgusted) with our second half production fall-off in the Rider contest. In retrospect, I think Bill Self chose to let it happen. He was bent on heading toward the Thanksgiving tournament w/o the chest thumping which Jayhawks demonstrated after last season's Duke game. If he had left Alexander in the game, we would not have lost the second half to Rider. Self chose to discipline his new player(s) rather than to allow them to run AAU Rampant.
@JayHawkFanToo Really a stretch, at this juncture, to think of this squad in terms of "the rotation cut to 7-8 players." If that happens before midMarch, we are likely to see Greene, Graham or Frank transfer after the season. Oubre had best step up soon if he is to cement his position as one of 8 or 9 key players by league play. (Did I just contradict myself re numbers???) No doubt, Kelly possesses the physical tools. But SOMETHING is holding him back as a dependable ingredient.
HA! A day after posting my BOLD PROPOSAL I still get a chuckle regarding its thesis. Certainly opened decent discussion and feedback. And, yeah, bound not to happen. We think by now that we know Bill Self well enough to understand that he will not waste a minute of practice time engaging in something this far out of the box. In truth, of all the Div. 1 coaches I have watched, Billy Tubbs might be the only guy who would seriously consider such a move. Anyway, thanks to responders. A fun proposal...and maybe not so outrageous as it would appear, on first reading.
@Statmachine Fascinating stats. Thanks for your post.
@HighEliteMajor Pretty much the same way I see Oubre at the moment. He's like that 3rd ACE lurking near the top of the stack in a five-card poker game. And, yeah, I concurred with your take on his starting vs. UK; although I can understand why JahawkFanToo and J. Newell anointed him best player in that hapless contest. If Kelly bears patience and determination, sooner or later he will burst forth. Right now he looks timid and a bit lost.
Graham subs for Svi; Mason subs for Selden; Greene for Oubre; Traylor for Ellis (or Alexander); Lucas for Alexander. Starting 5, most games: Svi, Selden, Oubre, Ellis, Alexander. Mickelson, spot duty for shot blocking. Manning for psychological salt to be administered grimly.
Immediately, move Svi to point guard. Do not...repeat, do not back off. The kid might be the only player on the squad who sees the court and is capable of thinking and taking action a step ahead of opponents. Crisp passes, no-stickem dribbling, constant motion. NOW is the moment. Do not wait!
Unless injuries intervene to take their customary toll, the Big 12 is set for a topsy-turvy dogfight. As I commented a week ago, KU could easily lose 5 league games and still tie with perhaps two other teams for the conference title. Probably Texas, Oklahoma or Iowa State (although some lower echelon early season sleeper usually steps up). No way that this Jayhawk squad will win the title outright with only 3 or 4 losses. The Longhorns really look formidable; but the injury thing with one or two of their returning starters or Myles Turner could derail Rick Barnes in the snap of a finger. Oklahoma has already shown weakness in organizing an effective starting lineup. We know that Mayor Fred will host a real blockbuster when we arrive in Ames. Gotta place our hopes and expectations on the Spirit of The Phog to protect our winning legacy at home. If we can keep our league slate clean in Allen FH, the title should once again trudge though Lawrence. But a very likely tie....
"But..."but..."but...But" Lotsa "buts" in Bill Self's comments today. Maybe he is working up to issuing one of those football style GAME PLANS: something about BUTTS.
@HighEliteMajor Cal being "hamstrung," having to play all his McDees guys. Oooooo, NICE! I have read some of the Wildcat articles and blogs. Cal seems to be facing complexities, trying to squeeze his returning juniors and sophomores into his customary "We are such a new young team" scenario. The guy faces pressure in extreme proportions tonight.
If Oubre's legs allow (and none of us appear to know if he might actually be enduring injury) I look to see him play significant minutes in tonight's Kentucky matchup. That said, I think HEM is probably right on in his belief that Svi is adjusting much more quickly to the Bill Self style, and is a rarer gem than anyone had predicted at this stage of his young hoops life.
Agree. This Kentucky game is the big stage. Oubre will get his chance. Hopefully he is our lefty secret weapon.
Unless Oklahoma, Texas, Iowa State or our very own Jayhawks end up imploding throughout the league season, as did Okie State last year, this looks to be the most competitive of the upper echelon Big 12 squads in recent years. The Big 12 is now loaded with experienced winning coaches. We could lose 5 conference games and still tie for the title, maybe with two other teams. The league tournament, come March, should be a super colossal prep for the NCAA Tourney.
@KUSTEVE Frank IS who he is. I predict that most games fans will grind their molars over his slashes into the tall trees. With experience, he will come to temper such inclinations...or become more proficient either at finishing or drawing fouls. His makeup is not dissimilar to that of Sherron Collins.
Oubre either is injured or up to his eyeballs in the Bill Self Toughening Box. Whichever, I hope he maintains the patience and cool to come forth. No doubt whatsoever that the kid possesses amazing talent and potential. His 4 minutes are a bold indicator that he is not yet ready. The only other explanation is that Self is holding him back in order to mess with John Cal's game plan. I don't buy into that one little bit.
@globaljaybird gjb, we have bought into ESPN Fulll Court the past several seasons, so as to watch games not scheduled for CBS or regular ESPN channels. I think the cost this year is $110 for entire season. We get it via Dish Network; but I assume it is available via most other providers.
@Lulufulu Lulu, the squad is so packed at that 3 spot that I can't envision him moving Ellis into the logjam. Self really has a heady task on his hands, figuring out the utilization of Greene-Svi-Oubre.
@jaybate-1.0 Looks to be Svi or Greene. Gotta hope that one is on fire in Indy; preferably both. With Frankamp's defection, the door opens wide for Svi or Greene to capitalize on promise. The probable scenario will test Bill Self like never before in his Kansas tenure.
After my earlier grousing about non-telecast, I discovered that Full Court was running this contest on Dish 457. So, I can sleep peacefully after all. Bill Self has so many available combinations this season that winning basketball will certainly be a work in progress.
Good to see Selden and Ellis get serious after 3 halves of lackluster numbers. Svi's shooting was off tonight, but the kid is the real deal. His outlet pass with 2 1/2 minutes left in first half was splendid. He looks to become an impact player sooner than anticipated by many.
Lucas, Mickelson and Alexander all looked formidable. A very active crew of big men. Point guard position looks to be much improved over a year ago, with Mason and Graham exhibiting some good stuff. Greene still quick to bounce into BIll Self's toughening box, but he pops back off the bench to create some serious mayhem for defenders. Freethrow shooting very much improved tonight. Bill has made his point! I'd say that it will take awhile for this squad to gel and win smoothly; but by midFebruary they should be ready to make a run toward some titles. Athleticism abounds.
Here's a plea for fellow posters to provide ongoing gametime info on tonight's contest. I have been Zingered, sitting in rural West Central MO with Dish Network TV and a slow Verizon internet aircard (ergo, no ESPN3). If I am fortunate I might be able to dial onto 610 am if the signal has not been reduced as is customary for nighttime broadcasts.. IMHO, Sheahon Z's Time Warner Cable deal still absolutely stinks.
If the Jayhawk AD position were an elected chair, I would campaign like a madman to demote that guy to position of assistant equipment manager for non-basketball sports.
The two things which stand out, for me, in this Bill Self decision: Bill is traipsing into the head of Cal, what with the KY game a week down the pike; and Bill wants to see Selden work from the 3 position. A talented brilliant youngster is being showcased and inserted as an example of how the coaching staff would like to see this year's squad play. The midrange game has struggled since '08.
Oops, I forgot Greene. I really hope that kid hangs in there patiently to latch on to opportunity when and if it occurs. I will continue to see him as a potential monster lurking within the Jayhawk hoops program. I retain a touch of sadness regarding the departures of AW3 and Fankamp; and really am keeping fingers crossed that Greene will develop into the significant contributor which many posters think he can become. He injects energy and a touch of excitement when he appears on the court.