Other than the not inconsiderable feat of shutting down fellow OADer Jabari Parker in the closing minutes of last season's Duke contest, one of the most significant contributions which Andrew Wiggins made to the KU program was to embellish Bill Self's reputation among current and future top talent. Now, more than ever before, Bill Self possesses credibility with topnotch recruits, far and wide. Already a master at recruiting players who best fit his particular style of play (and social adjustment), now he can reach out to gain contact with top tier players, parents, high school/prep school/AAU coaches with more accessible ease. Several posters have contributed some really fine stuff on this specific thread. I, too, feel that Alexander, Oubre, Graham and Svi are likely to become better fits for the Bill Self style than were Wiggins and Embiid. Embiid's almost miraculous explosive development will add significantly to the current Jayhawk reputation for super development of big men in the Self program. For basic Bill Self Basketball, now that Selden is healthier and Perry/Jamari/Landon/Frank/Hunter possess another year of experience, the 4 newcomers should make for a stronger more cohesive unit than the newcomers of a year ago. A good thing, too, since Texas, Iowa State and Oklahoma especially appear to represent strong threats to Jayhawk league dominance.
I'd like to hear a tape of the player/father/coach discussion. To wit, did Conner opt for a red shirt but get turned down? A real shame that he has lost this semester of eligibility and will have only 2 1/2 seasons at his transfer school. I noticed in the Bedore announcement, Conner is still listed at 165. After a year and a half of college, he appears not to have gained more than 5 pounds. Hard to imagine a 6 footer playing major minutes at that weight for a top tier Div. 1 program. Conner seemed destined only for spot duty unless the newbies bombed. In years 3 and 4 body likely would not have packed the additional 15 pounds necessary to compete competitively for KU.
I wish for him the very best. Appeared to be a terrific kid, a solid team player.
Jaybate writes, "7 perimeter guys won't play/Redshirting now unspoken." I suspect that by February Greene or Frankamp will have wished for the opportunity to have snatched the red singlet. Tho, most probably, none was offered. After the Wiggins and Embiid recruitment and subsequent lottery bonanza, Bill Self is fairly well set for specific spot recruitment, at least for the near future. No need to burn a fifth year scholly on sophomores who arrived a year ago with superior upside, but did not quite cut the first year mustard in crunch situations. Given TIME, both Greene and Frankamp will probably develop into essential gametime contributors for Jayhawk hoops. Spot duty this season will tell lots about their potential for a junior red shirt or third year major playing time.
Unless injury to other potential key players dictates otherwise, I predict that each of them is yet at least a year away.
Joel and collegiate sis Muriel heading 6000 miles to Cameroon. Sounds as tho 76ers organization did a first-class job in supporting him until Muriel arrived and home flight departed. Interesting that LJW and KC Star have not yet followed up on original report of the death.
The KU hoops landscape is so cluttered with potential surprises this season that, at this juncture, I find it too bewildering to allow for a "most improved" selection. We KNOW that current returning players will have gained much from previous game minutes and practice experiences with nationally top-ranked competitors. By league play, Bill Self's utilization of his roster will say much to this matter: who will earn opportunity to enter games for enough minutes to develop and showcase talent and growth. If Greene has developed the skill to slide laterally and defend, I have thought all along that he will fight for minutes, even against the likes of much heralded newcomer Oubre or reconstructed Wayne Selden, whose leg could use a regular 15 minute dose of bench rest until he is back to a stable 100%. To me, Brannen Greene has shown glimpses of the high energy player who can inject new life and zest into a contest. Depending on several factors (Selden health, Oubre quick adjustment and blend, Ellis perhaps gleaning minutes at SF), Greene might yet be a year away. But by end of Year 3, Brannen is likely to ignite Jayhawk Winning Basketball!
Who will come to Cleveland with him? Will the Cavs trade Wigs to secure a star big man? Will LeBron insist that Wiggins remains alongside him?
If it is true, indeed, that Baylor is offering to bring him back to the program in a nonplaying capacity, kudos to Drew and the University for their goodwill. Maybe my first positive thoughts toward Baylor Basketball since Drew pulled his troops to the hallway during Allen FieldHouse pre-game video a few years ago.
@nuleafjhawk Add me to your closing declaration, Any player who stayed at KU for 4 years (or more)! That reduces my enthusiasm for Wilt and many others who were Kansas greats, but not quite so endearing.
@Crimsonorblue22 O MY! You are up for the Nuleaf Laugh of the Day Award!
@ralster All Jayhawk fans should breathe a giant sigh of relief that Stephenson's teen promoters steered him away from Lawrence. Really surprising that he did not end up with Calipari. The guy really does have more talent than I had considered, but his actions are reprehensible. Leaves Larry Bird with a real dilemma on his hands, trying to decide on keeping him or brokering a trade. Born Ready is bound to paint the Pacers as Ugly Franchise NBA.
LJW posted a BallisLife interview in which Rachel DeMita suggested that Oubre might be a big hit with women on KU campus. Alexander responded, "It might be true...he a pretty guy." Also in the interview, when asked about potential for a very successful Jayhawk season, Oubre cautioned not to discount other powerhouse teams; going on to claim that the Jayhawks would reign supreme because "We're SAVAGES!" These two sound as though they should be real treats this season. Cheery to hear them sound off before settling in to serious business. BenMac's early take is that both of them should do quite well.
The recent LBJ bashers got schooled in Quarter #3. When a player of his stature heats up and goes deadly, O My!
wissoxfan83, In past 15 years, hard for me to think of point guard w/o Aaron Miles on a list...although your 5 are very noteworthy.
@Statmachine If these four newcomers play enough by March to retain their smiles, and Ellis + Selden play enough to help the Jayhawks log another league title, which 2 of the following 6 will play significant minutes to comprise Bill Self's customary endofseason 8 man rotation: Traylor, Greene, Mason, Frankamp, MIckelson, Lucas? And will the remaining 4 be inclined to go the way of Tharpe and White? (Or will we see a 9 or 10 man rotation by tournament time, with only 2 considering a transfer?) But wait! There is still one dangling open scholarship....
Most dogs bark. And some will even turn on you.
An absolute necessary move. To allow for $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 annual raise for salary of head coach. Gotta keep up with Kentucky and inch closer to Duke.
@nuleafjhawk Yee-Haw! You have captured the spirit of the situation.
During the administrations of the immediate past and current U.S. presidents, economists and newscasters persistently insist that this great nation absolutely wallows in economic chaos and fiduciary mayhem. If that is to be believed, and accepted as dreadful financial gloom, what in all holy hell does it say for this nation that the likes of Calipari, Coach K and our very own Jayhawk mentor are bagging these astronomically insane contracts?
Bill Self would not have climbed to the heights he has without having developed and held tenaciously to a system which has led to an almost mindboggling string of league titles and an NCAA D1 winning record second to no other coach in recent years. He has done so without the annual services of squads loaded with Top 20 talent. Now that the acquisition and performances of one and done players Embiid and Wiggins (and Black) have paved the way for more lucrative recruiting among topranked teens and proven transfer players who will spend less time than most former Jayhawks have invested in learning and performing Bill Self System Basketball, I am intensely focused on watching adjustments which evolve in the Self presentation. One of my favorite novelists writes, "There is great audacity in the willingness to change, more than a little optimism, and a serious dose of courage." Self has always been a determined competitor, probably as doggedly courageous as any coach in the game. Will his willingness to change keep pace with the new face of Jayhawk hoops squads, soon to be glutted with starting players who might spend only a year or two in Lawrence?
On 3 occasions, in the 10 year league winning span, Bil Self and staff have done a marvelous job of rising to the occasion of securing a title with no returning starters. This season we return two starters. The challenge is to weave so many talented newcomers and gifted returning bench players into another sweep toward Big 12 supremacy. Every position on this squad is filled with at least a pair of very gifted aspirants, most of whom bear labels of recognized deficiencies (height, speed, wingspan, toughness, D1 inexperience, etc.). If his legs are back to 100%, Selden might be the one exception. Threading so many positives into the carpet, while hiding or compensating for deficiencies, will undoubtedly be a stressful but joyful task for Self and Co. Once again, hopes spring toward another Top 10 team and a run for the national title. But, essentially, even though Selden is likely gone after this season, this looks to be another building year, a springboard toward a 2015-16 Championship.
@HighEliteMajor HEM, in my humble opinion, the coaching staff will drift toward March Doom if it gravitates toward 8-man rotation this season. Too much talent of a wide variety. Perry Ellis represents the prime example of this year's very gifted Jayhawk who should probably play no more than 23-26 minutes per game...because someone on the bench can pop on the court with fresh legs and more defensive intensity to offset his deficiencies. This group shrieks for 9-10 man rotation. In a recent interview, Brannen Greene declared that Bill Self had hinted at such. I hope to see it. There is bound to be some snarling of players and fans if the 2014-15 squad collapses again midMarch into April...while compensatory talent wilts on the pine.
If, indeed, the NCAA eventually reduces the current time clock to, say, 30 seconds, as Bill Self appears to favor, the concept of "Lead Guard" in the Kansas system might be in for some tweaking. A shorter clock would call for quicker decision making on the part of the player who brings the ball upcourt; less time for hi/lo maneuverings; less time for the 3-side swing. The role of Jayhawk "lead" guard might metamorph into more of a standard "point" guard schematic.
Interesting that Pat Riley envisioned the potential for Mario to play into the lead guard role with such a short 24 second shot clock....
@icthawkfan316 Good stuff, ict. Basically, a finesse player who is a tweener (height-wise) is not a prime candidate to thrive at the 4 position in the Bill Self System. Yeah, Perry might benefit from an extreme big city playground toughening process; but facts are facts. With Greene and Oubre battling it out at the 3 position, Perry and Traylor will continue to share minutes at the 4 unless Mickelson or Lucas should make a giant step forward, freeing Alexander to play some 4. Evidently, Bill Self has told Greene that the 2014-15 Jayhawks can expect a 9-10 man rotation. Practices should occur at premium ticket-selling level.
@jaybate 1.0 There you go again, jb, expounding on that dratted SHOEco theme. And the thing is, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT!
My take on this KU future coaching issue follows this line: RECRUITING has become the name of the game. Bill Self has arrived as a major D1 recruiter. KU is fast becoming a site of interest for Top 15 ranked high school seniors and foreign vunderkind. Whosoever replaces Bill Self must be a recognized face on the recruiting scene, dependably capable of maintaining current Jayhawk attractability.
@ralster Manning will replace Turgeon at Maryland?
@DoubleDD If your argument should include recent one and done KU players Wiggins and Embiid, do you have any idea the scope of their earnings over the next 3 years of guaranteed NBA money and additional income from commercialization of their names and games? If so, do you REALLY think those two young men will succumb to penniless lives long after their sports careers have ended? Or that their personal development will be tarnished, even if they never earn another hour of college? Yeah, I think that, in general, your thesis includes sound points. It is a shame that Selby, McLemore, even 3 year player Aldrich felt the urgency to depart in order to help their families; Selby, esp., as he had little in the way of "guaranteed" professional income. Aldrich has returned to KU to finish his degree, and McLemore appears to be following the same track. The two of them are blessed with guaranteed income which not only has offered their families financial stability, but has given the two of them flexibility to spend their offseasons in pursuit of degrees. I'm a guy who earned a pair of college degrees and several hours beyond my masters. I don't regret my decision to earn those degrees or to enter the field of public education. But for several years my family of four existed on an income barely above the poverty level. Our daughter chose to homeschool her five children, all of whom have eschewed college educations in lieu of entering the workforce. They all are thriving, two of them already in management positions. I feel that too much can be made of the value of college educations and the necessity for degrees. HA! I see my thesis bouncing to and fro, similar to yours. Enough said.
@globaljaybird If I were offered 100 to 1 odds regarding Greene's taking a red shirt, I would not wager more than 50 cents. The only way I could envision that happening would be a serious pre-season injury. Things might change dramatically in the next five months, esp. with that one open scholarship dangling; but at this juncture, the only perimeter player whom I see as a possible red shirt is CF. Actually, I would like to see Conner in the program for five years. His game is dynamite, but body still demands tweaks.
Ben did not make the NBA Rookie 1st or 2nd team.
I cherish the thought that Conner Frankamp might spend five years in the system. If, indeed, he is to red shirt, this would appear to be the year. I, too, foresee Mason starting this season at the point, with Graham chipping away at his minutes by early January. Svi and Wayne might see more on-ball time as the need arises. If Greene makes the monster sophomore leap which I anticipate, he and Oubre will share equal time in Wiggins' slot. The 4 position is secure with Ellis and Traylor. Question mark at the five spot, which of the pair, Lucas or Mickelson, will relieve Alexander? So...10-man rotation...with one scholarship still dangling.
@Statmachine D. Graham does not fit into your rotation, even by January?
@konkeyDong Actually, I am one poster who has not borne with you. Early on, I grew weary of all this racial bullhockey. Kudos to Statmachine for opening a new Mykhailiuk thread, hopefully with everyone gathering back on target.
Bill Self just might be weaving himself into position wherein by March his top 8 players will include 4 freshmen. Add those newcomers to Ellis, Selden, Traylor. Who will be #8? Who will opt for a red shirt? Or, sad scenario, would Greene, Lucas, Mason or Frankamp transfer? Turgeon or D. Manning might be watching intensely....
Would not be a bad thing for Frankamp or Mason to red shirt, if jam at the 1-2 positions becomes too crowded this season. Terrific potential for each of them, as program players who opt to stay the full course. At least, they are not likely to be ushered out the door.
Man O Man, if Self brings this recruit to roost in Lawrence this season, half our speculations regarding the 1,2,3 positions go out the window. Fran sizes him up as a shooting guard who can play some point. Sounds like another "lead" guard. Although just approaching 17, if he comes aboard, someone on the current roster is bound to opt for a red shirt. And if he already is wavering between a U.S. college experience vs. playing professionally in the Euro League, his amateur time in the States would most likely be brief.
@jaybate 1.0 jb, we can't forget Greene's capability from long range. He's a player whom I expect to make a huge sophomore jump. Here's hoping Brannen is wily enough to invest lots of hours with BenMac this summer.
I'm still mighty high on Frank Mason, at least his energy and determination on the offensive end of the court. However, if he does not possess the peripheral vision (or perhaps mindset?) to distribute the ball when he races into double and triple coverage, he must be yanked until he learns to do so. He might become more efficient at drawing fouls on his drives: a saving grace if he maintains 80% freethrow shooting. From the vantage point of May offseason, I foresee Mason opening the season at starting point guard, the position his to lose. Graham likely will breathe down his neck until league play; then it's a tossup. Conner will relieve Wayne and be tossed into late game crucial situations where the long ball is in demand. Or, if both Mason and Graham become subjects of turnover mayhem vs. super defenses, Conner will earn minutes to stabilize ball control.
Adam Silver has established a great deal of credibility already with NBA players. If Silver pushes hard for the 2-and-done rule, the Players' Association is likely to bow to his wishes. Would certainly fit well with Bill Self's sytem's approach to the game.
I, too, theorized that the hip pointer was AW3's death knell. Still think that Self might have, at least subconsciously, glawmed onto that incident as his point of decision. That said, HEM's missive makes good sense.
@REHawk And, of course, there is the Alexander, Lucas, Mickelson logjam, too. Or maybe even an Ellis, Alexander, Traylor jam...if Mickelson or Lucas should take wing and soar at the post. Selden appears to be the one player whose position and big minutes would seem secure.
HEM, ict, slayr, outstanding posts re this issue! Such in-depth speculations keep me returning to this site almost daily. A nice tribute to Andrew White that some of the very best fans and posters keep his name and game in their thoughts.
I look to see Andrew complete his eligibility in style, hopefully at a prime opportune location. And I hope to hell Greene and Oubre stay healthy this season. Next potential logjam: Frankamp, Mason, Graham. That could be resolved if Frankamp relaxes to the extent that he regularly hits better than 40% of his 3s; becomes an insert specialist. But as we have conjectured, he might need considerably more playing time in order to settle in with such focus and results. He had ever so much to learn last season, with only scant minutes to put it all together. His specialty suffered.
Zach was a kid who admired the Jayhawk traditions, and committed to the program while still very young. Whatever health and consequent frustration issues he dealt with his freshman year in Lawrence, it is a shame that he was unable to contibute and develop into a significant big man at KU. Most of us bore high hopes for him; were sorry to see him depart. Here's wishing all the very best for him in his journeys outside the world of contact sports. Will always be a Jayhawk.
@HighEliteMajor Thanks for the clarification. I had forgotten that rule. Certainly would seem to preclude his staying in our league. Maybe Turgeon would have a spot for him at Maryland if Danny has no pressing need for a 6'6" swing player. I would imagine that Colorado is giving AW3 a look. So long as he does not connect with Missouri, I will remain a fan. I imagine that Bill Self will put forth considerable effort to help him find a comfortable niche. In the big picture, now Andrew gets a fifth year to complete free studies, and he has a much better chance of playing significant minutes after a redshirt year of practice and readjustment. He can walk tall.
Very intriguing, AW3's eventual home for his last 3 years of residence. Though I would not expect him to come to roost in the Big 12, many of our competitors could really use him. I would imagine that Okie State and Tech are giving Andrew some thought. Hoiberg has feasted off an array of transfers. But the Wake program might already be in the prospectus. Wherever, I hope that Andrew finds the optimum fit and is able to start and make an impact his final two eligible seasons. Among the players who have transferred away during the Self years, AW3 is the one whom I will be most interested in following. I think he will make some coach very happy. Highly unlikely that he would ever embarrass a program. Classy departure comments by his father, too.
Best of luck to you, Andrew. A sound scholar and a classy kid and teammate who arrived in Lawrence perhaps at the wrong time. I hope to see you move into a situation which is a splendid fit. Wherever you land, many Jayhawk fans will follow your development. Your 2015-16 stat sheet will, no doubt, occasionally appear on this site.
@HighEliteMajor ...and he wrote for the Louisville Courier-Journal for several years.
Especially if Andrew White stays there will be a bevy of backups to allow for outstanding and competitive practice situations. Yeah, save the scholarship for 2015-16; reward a walk-on with it this 2014-15 season. By the way, is it true that hoops scholarships can not be shared, e.g. 50% shared by each of two players?
Self's probably not too far adrift of your criteria, esp. with the likes of Ellis and Frankamp, coming out of high % high school shooting.
Coaching carousel might shake someone loose from a commitment before fall. That said, we are now so loaded that a very good player or two is going to sit 36+ minutes most games. Unless a rare specialty expert steps forward to plug s need, I would favor sharing with one of our current non-scholly members.
The Big Shuffle could find daylight if, indeed, Perry should see time at the 3 and/or Selden at the point. Then Mickelson or Lucas is inserted, sliding Cliff to the 4. Under that scenario, a wide variety of options at the 2: Greene, Oubre, Frankamp, Mason, Graham, White. Oops! That includes 11 players! Another Oops! I have forgotten Traylor. 12 players. O My!