I only thought that it appropriate that I announce the news. Trust in Self. National title ---- Please!?!?
I asked this on another thread this morning, just kind of crossed my mind. Does anyone think AW3 knew this possibility was coming? I mean nothing new changed since late March to affect AW3's situation. Graham for Tharpe was a push. Makes me wonder ....
Unreal. Bill working his magic. What does this do to our lineup? Does he take the spot of CF due to his size and the fact that they are both advertised as sharp shooters?
@HighEliteMajor Wheter you trust Self or not, let's just hope for two great years out of this kid. And yes, National Title PLEASE!
What does everyone think about him staying home for the summer? I remember when Wiggins announced everybody was worried about him staying in Canada to play with the national team, then praised him for coming early to KU. Is everyone going to brush off this kid staying in the Ukraine this summer (as Self appears to have done)?
Now my hopes are that one of the players (CF, Mason, Greene) this kid will be siphoning minutes from will red-shirt as opposed to transfer.
Ok, here's a plan for the perimeter - CF or Mason, Graham, Selden, Oubre, SM (might be perfect for SM as the 5th perimeter guy, who gets scrap minutes).
CF or Mason (loser of that battle) and Greene redshirt.
Oubre and Selden turn pro.
2015 - CF, Mason, Graham, SM, and Greene. Sign a nice non-OAD to develop.
Amazing how stud our perimeter is for the future, but how unsettled our post spots are. Maybe Self plays more outside in? Maybe???
What are the odds that Brannen Greene, right now, is saying "This isn't what I'd hoped"? But if he did redshirt, and have two gangbuster years, he is likely the NBA guy Self said he is.
But I can't imagine that SM is better than CF or Greene right now. Self seems to think in his quotes that he'll play next season.
“Obviously, this is great news for us," Self said today. “He is 16 years old and will turn 17 in June, but his skill level, knowledge and aptitude for the game are way beyond his years. I think that he will be an immediate impact guy. He is a guy that can play all three positions on the perimeter. At 6-8, he can play point, play the No. 2 (guard) or the No. 3 (guard). He allows us to be more versatile next year and certainly, there would be few people that would shoot it better than him.”
Again, what is Brannen Greene thinking?
@HighEliteMajor My gut tells me that Greene is 2 full years older than this kid, physically more mature and has a year of NCAA basketball / Bill Self practices under his belt. Also, Greene seems like he has quite a bit of fight in him.I like Greene's chances to play in front of SM.
@HighEliteMajor I too wonder what Greene is thinking, as well as Connor & Mason. While SM might not cut their minutes directly, the ripple effect certainly does. This was my fear all along.
I think for Greene, best case scenario is a red shirt, then hope that both Selden & Oubre turn pro next year. That would open things up for him to start at the 3, with SM being a very tall 2.
The nightmare scenario for him would be if he red shirts and neither Selden nor Oubre turn pro. In which case he burned a year of eligibility for nothing.
@icthawkfan316 It will be very interesting to see if there is any other "ripple effects" between now and the start of the season, or through semester. I think once they start school in the fall, a transfer would have to sit until after 1st semester of the following season. The next few months will be interesting to see -- if there is any (more) movement related to this signing. I say "more" because maybe AW3's decision was based in part on this possibility.
Essentially, Self traded Tharpe and White for Graham and SM.
@joeloveshawks - Exactly. We say this a lot though -- is SM coming to Kansas now to simply ride the pine? If not, who sits? Selden and Oubre, we know, will play. Self has to have two ball handlers -- Graham, CF and/or Mason. Can't imagine Self sits Greene with the reincarnation of Pistol Pete Maravich and Manu Ginoboli rolled into one sitting there. Self obviously thinks he'll play now. He said that about Graham, too.
Also on the international front, saw that Iowa State signed a 7 footer from Greece that plays on their national team. Not sure I'll believe it though until he plays a year at some other university then decides to transfer to ISU :)
12 players that are competing for playing time this season: Ellis, Alexander, Selden, Oubre, Graham, Mason, Frankamp, Traylor, Mickelson, Lucas, Greene, Mykhailiuk. Only 9 of them will see minutes.
Let's start with the obvious, Ellis, Selden, Alexander, and Oubre are locks for playing time.
Traylor is a pretty safe bet and between Mickelson and Lucas, I think Mickelson will win the 4th spot for a big.
The point guard spot will be between Graham, Mason, and Frankamp and I suspect Self will pick 2 of them. As of right now I have no idea who gets the short straw but that leaves one available spot for 3 players. Right now I'm leaning toward Graham starting and Mason coming off the bench as the back up, which sucks because I do like CF a lot.
And that brings us to Greene, Mykhailiuk, and Frankamp. I'm leaning toward Greene getting minutes but I can't imagine that Mykhailiuk came to KU to sit on the bench and watch. Also, Self called Mykhailiuk an immediate impact guy which would indicate to me that he will play this season. So I guess Frankamp, Greene, and Lucas won't get too much playing time this season.
@HighEliteMajor -- I think you may be onto something. However, AW3 was struggling to get playing time even with Mykhailiuk entering the equation. I know you have reservations HEM, but I'm thinking this kid is the real deal. He will most likely get pushed around at first as the US game is more physical. After he adjusts and gets stronger look out.
This is Fran Fraschilla's take on ESPN "Insider". Fran is the International expert as you all know. I'm not sure that what he says means he will be an instant starter or anything but obviously he has a lot of tools. I'm shocked at how young he is.
Kansas has added one of the best young players in Europe to its 2014-2015 roster. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk (pronounced ME-kuy-luke), a 6-foot-6, 16-year-old Ukrainian guard, signed with the Jayhawks today after considering scholarship offers, initially, from Virginia, Oregon and Iowa State.
Mykhailiuk, who averaged 25 points and eight rebounds at the 2013 European Under-16 B Division Championship last summer and was named to the all-tournament team, recently played in the Nike Hoop Summit. His minutes were limited as he arrived in Portland, Oregon, as a late addition to the World Team, but his appearance made him the youngest player to ever compete in the game.
It was during the practice sessions leading up to the Hoop Summit game where Mykhailiuk really shined. He shouldn’t be characterized as a point guard or shooting guard because he is multiskilled and can play either position, and he showed that during the World Team practices.
Mykhailiuk is an outstanding shooter with range, though he struggled in the Under-16 tournament, making only 28 percent of his 3-point attempts. He did, however, make 77 percent of his free throw attempts. He handles the ball well for his size and has a better than average feel for the game as a playmaker.
Though he will turn only 17 years old in June, Mykhailiuk is well put together physically for a young player. This past season, he played for the Cherkasy Monkeys of the Ukrainian Superleague. His teammates included Americans Ronald Moore (Siena) and Jamal Boykin (California). While the level of play in Ukraine is not the best in Europe, it is a very physical league. That will make his adjustment to the college game even easier.
Mykhailiuk’s transition to college should be relatively smooth because he has already mastered the language barrier. Both of his parents are educators, and his English is certainly above average for a Ukrainian teenager.
Initially, I see Bill Self using Mykhailiuk off the ball where he won’t have the pressure of running a team. As he grows more comfortable in the Kansas system, he will be entrusted to have the ball in his hands more. I believe that if he were playing in the United States as a high school junior, he would be rated among the top 10 players in the Class of 2015.
Interestingly, when Self visited with Mykhailiuk and his family after the Hoop Summit, he discussed with them the great Kansas basketball tradition. While they were impressed, the biggest impression was made when they discovered that Self had coached Russian Sasha Kaun during his four years at Kansas. Kaun is now starring for CSKA Moscow, one of the top clubs in Europe. It is too early to tell about Mykhailiuk’s NBA future, but like Kaun, at a minimum, he should have a very good European professional career.
We just got a lot better! Competition at every position. Should be another great year. Outstanding recruiting class. Understandable that AWIII and Tharpe left. They were not going to play this year. The fat has been trimmed. We should be solid this year. Now if we can have a little luck come tournament time...
I have to be honest... I'm as excited signing this kid as I was signing Wiggins.
He's going to be an impact player this year and next year.. and we'll see after that.
I guess he grew 2 more inches in the past week or two... or he received the "KU bump" (added height from KU-rigged tape) right after committing.
As soon as this guy adjusts to college ball (which I expect it to happen this coming year) he will be a big time player and his unique name will be bobbled by every sportscaster in America. I can't wait to hear them attempt his name.
We better get a nickname on him quick. Heard it was "Svia."
Guess that is a start until we come up with something to match his play. Maybe "Larry Bird?" Wait.. that's been taken...
@drgnslayr We need to start by spelling his last name right:
Sviatoslav MykhailiKU!
Love it!
In other news....
There is an excellent chance we will still use that one remaining scholarship.
It could even be for one more Int'l player.
Svia may bring a buddy with him.
When I first saw his name a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned it here and literally got no response. Well coach Self must follow my posts because he had enough sense to sign the Ukrainiak.
@ParisHawk Brilliant! Get it trademarked!
The phonetic spelling @joeloveshawks gave us My-kuy-luke provides absolutely no guidance on how to pronounce the middle syllable! And his first name? Forgetaboutit!
I'm just glad we get to call him Jayhawk!
@HighEliteMajor Welcome Comrade
Excellent and welcome to the Chalk "Myck"(pro. Mike) or "Mick." We just increased our fire power.
Fantastic news! Self really has worked more recruiting magic...
It's also great news for Myck who could be entering the NBA draft at the age of 18 -- with TWO years of major college experience. That's remarkable!
Imagine Hudy getting to work with a kid still in the prime growth years of 17-18 and the ability for him to learn from Self's system for two years at this age.
(wondering how much credit we should be giving to Sasha...)
@HighEliteMajor It really is intriguing if Self "traded" Tharpe and White for Graham and Mikhy (if they are actually linked behind the scenes).
Personally, I just dont see Brannen Greene redshirting. He knows the System, he's big, and his demeanor isnt going to take redshirting. He is a horse you let out of the gate, and you ride him. No way a 16yr old with no knowledge of Self ball plays ahead of Greene. The whole maturity angle (physically and mentally) is a big factor for Mikhy's potential mpg...but even bigger is he just doesnt know Self's system and the plays. Certainly not as well as Greene and Mason do.
I have noticed on this site, as well as on the old LJW site, that the speculation on who is going to 'redshirt' is simply astonishing, to say the least, considering Self-players must have experience and physicality to play well in this system. People are forgetting that our junior "PG" just transferred. The most experienced PG currently is Frank Mason, by a wide margin over CF (minutes played)--yet people keep putting his name out there for a redshirt. So what kind of "experience" will be running PG if Mason redshirts? That's immensely scary to me. Sherron couldnt run the show as a frosh, but gave great hi-energy minutes off the bench. So how is a non-MikeyD-anybody going to come run PG. RussRob NOR Tyshawn could run the point as frosh. EJ couldnt either. So what are people expecting if Mason redshirts? I'm sorry, but I'm at a total loss why it is speculated that Mason may redshirt?
I was thinking along the same lines...Mick has a nice ring to it.
Nice take on Coach Self at Bleacher Report...
@ralster I agree. I love Connor and want nothing but success. I'm from Wichita and have nothing against Connor, but we all know Connor has too many disadvantages. I said he had skill limits and was immediately challenged by one or two that disagreed and said he was athletically challenged. I say he has a limited skill set, lol. Connor greatest strength is his shooting and I also said he worked hard for that strength.
He understands basketball and he's an intelligent player. I just don't see Conor doing much. He reminds me a lot of Ali Farokmanesh, only slightly better. It's hard to admit when a player you really like might not play meaningful minutes, but it happens. Connor's dad is a coach too. I know he totally understands. I happened to like Jeremy Case and believe he was as good, if not better than Connor, definitely more athletic, but we all saw what happened to Case. Case was a coach's son too. I think Connor will play some special minutes, and wouldn't call them "mop" mintues either. He's going to be key at the 1 and maybe the 2 as his time allows. Again, if he is patient, he will have a killer senior year. We could discuss Adams and Woolridge too, but same situation. Adams wasn't quite the shooter of Connor, Case, and Woolridge, but Adams, Case, and Woolridge were as athletic as Connor.
It's going to be pretty simple. I know there is one on this board that "cringes" when a lineup is speculated, but will post it again:
Mason-Connor - But watch Graham during the second half of the season take minutes from Connor.
Selden-Myck- This will be intriguing.
Oubre-Green- I like this and it's solid.
Ellis-Traylor- SOLID
Alexander- and it's wide open between Lucas/Mickelson
If you're of the 8 man rotation I will give you a final lineup, cringe now...:)
Mason-Graham
Selden-Myck - This kid can play 1-4 if necessary. He's Self answered prayer.
Oubre-Green
Ellis-Traylor...ok nine man rotation as needed
Alexander
It's all great and a win win for all that want it to be a win.
@ralster-Agreed raster, no way he's a leg up on Greene out of the chute. But for a moment just imagine what a redshirt year could do for him? Another thought also is that Selden's wheels aren't as solid as Bill would like & he'll need more than Greene at the 2 & the 3? If only the fly on the wall could talk. Self & his staff are far more knowledgeable of these guys' limitations for sure, while all we can do is kick around the chatter & spin. I read that this new kid is closer to 6' 5" than the 6' 8" some are writing on the major sports sites. Tick tock, tick tock...time will tell at late night.
OMGoodness!!! Just found out...I'm totally excited to get this kid.
He looks to be more cerebral than athletic (sarcasm font.)
Imagine the possibilities for us going with a big lineup or a small (lightning fast) lineup!
I still wouldn't be surprised if we land a big fella out there with that last scholarship.
If he's out there... Self is on him.
There are several foreign big guys...
@globaljaybird NO, no, no, why would Self bring him to RS? Self said he's an immediate impact player. What he produces during his first year is all bonus. He develops his first year and really impacts his second year.
I'm looking ahead and think Connor is the lone beneficiary of a RS. We don't need him right now with Myck. I would love to have Connor an extra year after he's developed and all grown up. Connor just can't give you solid production due to his skill set or athleticism. I say give Connor an extra year of eligibility and then watch him dominate yr 4 and 5 senior yr. Connor and his dad get it. If Connor wants a chance, he sits and waits anyway. Better to do it with a RS than sitting pine for no real reason.
Mason's skills and athleticism are needed now. Graham will take Connor's minutes and will chip into Mason's. I would love to see Connor for a long time at KU. RS Mason is only going to prolong the PG log jam. Use Mason and Graham now, and bring Connor in later.
Green is the same as Mason. Green is the total package and Self's dream player with his size, skills, and athleticism. You'd be foolish to RS Green. RS Green is almost like saying RS Alex. I think Green and Mick are going to be nasty. I would also think Selden is good as gone after this year. Mick will be a nice supplement to Selden's draft election. Oubre may likely be gone in two years. We may well lose Oubre and Mick together. Self has orchestrated Green's stay through his senior year.
All the transfer talk is over. Our transfers have left Lawrence. I don't think you'll see anymore transfers. These kids know how special they have it.
Self needs a solid 4, PF, 6-8,9 to play under Perry and Traylor. That last scholarship would serve that position well. Once Selden jumps, then get either another 6-9 or 6-10, 7-0 center. Self's not against playing 2-forwards as he will this year with Ellis and Alex. We are solid for the next two years. But I'm seeing an immediate need rising at the 4 unless Mickelson will step in to that role. I could see Alex staying after Perry leaves. You could see Alex back at the true 4 and Mickelson at the lone 5. Keep in mind if these new recruits stay 2 years, Ellis, Traylor and Lucas are all gone.
By the way, Sviatos just grew 2 KU inches as soon as he committed. :)
A native of Cherkasy, Ukraine, Mykhailiuk is a 6-foot-8, 195-pound shooting guard/small forward. The 16-year old will be eligible to play in the upcoming 2014-15 season.
And now he no longer is a combo guard, but a guard/forward.
AWESOME!!!. Maybe we'll make it out of the first weekend of the tournament this year. Or...maybe not.
AWESOME!!! Maybe we'll make it out of the the first weekend of the tournament this year. Or...maybe not.
AWESOME!!! Maybe we'll make it out of the first week of the tournament this year. Or...maybe not.
What fantastic news to start my Thursday (clap) (clap) (clap). Below is a link to Nike Hoops Summit video and NBC Sports (Rob Dauster) article about the signing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gr8CUOIrFBA ↗
Rob Dauster
May 21, 2014, 2:10 PM EDT
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, one of the most intriguing European prospects to come along since Ricky Rubio, has decided that he will head to Kansas for at least two seasons.
“Obviously, this is great news for us,” Kansas head coach Bill Self said in a release announcing the commitment. “He is 16 years old and will turn 17 in June, but his skill level, knowledge and aptitude for the game are way beyond his years.”
Mykhailiuk is a 6-foot-8 wing who is still just 16 years old. He played at the Nike Hoop Summit in April and was the youngest player in the history of the event. A native of Ukraine, Mykhailiuk played big minutes in the Ukranian professional league this past season. But he never signed a contract specifically in order to retain his collegiate eligibility.
The plan is for Mykhailiuk to spend two seasons at Kansas before entering the NBA Draft, as that’s how long it would take for him to be 19 years old and eligible to declare.
Mykhailiuk’s an above average athlete whose strength is in his ability to shoot the ball. He’s a capable passer and can jump passing lanes defensively, but he still needs to add some strength to better finish around the basket and be a more capable defender. That’s understandable, however. In Ukraine, high schoolers graduate at the equivalent of what is 11th grade here.
“He is a guy that can play all three positions on the perimeter,” Self said. “He allows us to be more versatile next year and certainly, there would be few people that would shoot it better than him.”
According to an NBA scout that has seen Mykhailiuk play, if he was in the Class of 2015 or 2016, which is likely where he would be classified if he played high school ball in the states, he would be a top ten recruit. He compared him to Nik Stasukas.
Mykhailiuk joins a loaded perimeter attack for the Jayhawks, as he’ll likely be stuck behind Kelly Oubre, Wayne Selden and Brannen Greene.
From Fran Fraschilla @franfraschilla · 9h
More great info on Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Kansas' newest recruit from @rustindodd - http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/21/5037687/ukrainian-teenager-sviatoslav.html ↗ …
@ralster I agree on Mason and I expect him to be the starting point guard. But I've long since learned that my opinion controls nothing in the universe.
The speculation on a redshirt is simple numbers, as you know. And it will come down to a decision by Self. We know he won't tie his own hands.
But here's the situation: Three guys that can handle to ball at the point, and now a fourth, SM, who seems like a legit emergency point (compared to Selden, who just isn't, or at least wasn't).
SM won't redshirt. Graham won't either. So if there is one among that group, it's CF or Mason. All four of them won't play regularly. At least one is the odd man out. We know that.
And if a kid starts out redshirting and there is a calamity (injuries), he can still play.
So what if Self does prefer CF over Mason? Now, Self could obviously prefer Mason over Graham. Again, this "immediate impact" stuff would tend to imply that Graham is a guy Self thinks will play. I'm not so sure I'm ready to buy that one, though. I think Mason and CF are ahead of Graham quite easily. It's a matter of how good Graham really is, and how quickly he assimilates. The Mason speculation is solely taking Self at his word on SM and Graham, and then crunching the roster numbers by skill, size, and positioning.
But I'm absolutely with you. Mason has the most experience. He demonstrated that he matured as the year progressed (much fewer drives into the abyss), and his three point shot got better. He also was a much more active distributor.
I think Mason is our best bet there. But this coming from a guy who was squarely on the Tharpe bandwagon on May 22, 2013.
I've watched a fair amount of film on S.M. ( not S AND M ....) and I believe that his biggest asset is that he PLAYS the game.
I hope Self doesn't get him to think.
I cherish the thought that Conner Frankamp might spend five years in the system. If, indeed, he is to red shirt, this would appear to be the year. I, too, foresee Mason starting this season at the point, with Graham chipping away at his minutes by early January. Svi and Wayne might see more on-ball time as the need arises. If Greene makes the monster sophomore leap which I anticipate, he and Oubre will share equal time in Wiggins' slot. The 4 position is secure with Ellis and Traylor. Question mark at the five spot, which of the pair, Lucas or Mickelson, will relieve Alexander? So...10-man rotation...with one scholarship still dangling.
@nuleafjhawk Pretty funny .. how often do you think this kid has been told DON'T shoot?
Self: Look, we need to get this ball into the post. That's our offense.
SM: What do you mean?
Self: I mean, I want us to look for the post entry pass early in the possession.
SM: "look for the post entry pass" .. but I can shoot if I'm open, right?
Self: Right, but you'll be sitting next to me.
SM: So I have to look at the shot clock before I shoot?
Self: We need to be aware of the shot clock.
SM: I'm not sure I really understand English -- I shoot ball (in Russian accent).
Self: Ok, then "you sit bench" (also in Russian accent)
@HighEliteMajor I think it's a little spooky that you can look into the future.....
I know it's been documented that Self had to continually get on Andrew Wiggins to be more selfish, but looking at your post, I can actually see Self having that conversation with just about any gifted shooter/scorer. I think the young fellas might be getting mixed messages.
"Shoot more. Score more. But only after 5 passes and only when there's 6 seconds or less on the shot clock."
@nuleafjhawk Self definitely brought out the treadmill for Rush after he didn't shoot when open.
I hope these conversations depend a little bit on lineups:
- "The post player is a #1 draft pick: get him the ball."
or
- "The post player is the best rebounder coming out of high school: shoot when open unless there is no offensive rebounder in sight."
Don't tell me the better D1 shooters aren't aware of rebounding position, game situation and the shot clock...
Draftexpress.com lists Mykhailiuk as 6-foot-6 in shoes, citing a Nike Hoops Summit measurement.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2014/may/22/self-says-ukrainian-recruit-will-provide-immediate/?mens_basketball ↗ ↗
6'8" is definitely with 3 KU inches added.
And per Fran, "He handles the ball well for his size." So I'd expect Mason to blow by him or pick his pocket every other possession. :)
I totally cracked up on your last post. A+ for comedy and also for some degree of reality.
Yes... Wiggins was nudged to shoot the ball this year, just like BMac was the year before.
The key you hit on several times now... that Self applies too many rules and discipline that college kids just aren't ready to implement yet. He needs to lighten up a bit and look for simpler methods of teaching and executing a strategy.
This is at the core of why we play stiff in March... and don't adjust well to tough situations.
There is a place for discipline and strict rules... including in college basketball. But it has to be applied in a way that doesn't make players get out of the flow and start thinking too much.
I get down hard on Self... but I do see him make changes almost every year and it keeps me having faith that he'll figure out the right formula for making his guys play loose and with confidence. This has little to do with how old the guys are on the team... in 2013, we had a team of mostly 4 and 5-yr seniors and they still stiffened up in March.
The difference between this kid and Wiggins and BMac.... this kid already knows how to create shooting space anywhere on the court.... something both Wiggins and BMac couldn't do. And he has better ball handling skills, giving him the option to move with the ball. This is the type of player that you can go to with 5 seconds left in the game, down by 1, and he'll at least get a good shot up because he'll move his feet and use fakes. Chances are... he'll get fouled!
It may take a little while for him to adjust his game, but what I will be looking at most in his freshman year is the amount of FTs he attempts versus his PT minutes. I bet this kid lives at the line! Something we haven't had from a perimeter player in a long time (except for Wiggins, who got there by brute forcing it in the paint).
Absolutely agree 100%. If you watch games and review games everyone one of our shooters looked first. They almost look/ed a little confused at times because they appeared to be shoot first, then pass at times. Hence the reason for many of our crazy discussions about decision making by some players. I can't get the EJ pass outside to Tharpe for the win against Michigan from head...but we should be able to do a better job.
Self will inevitably pound inside to Ellis, Alex, and either Lucas or Mickelson first. But depending which G/F is in the game, you'll see some driving and dishing. Self will be silly not to drive and dish, especially with this insane firepower. And to your point Mason has shown to be the drive/dish pg we need right now. Graham looks to be capable, but that transition from high school play to D1 is NASTY and will wake you up in games the hard way, sitting on the bench, wondering, "What the heck did I just do?" Pass the ball? Graham will realize the talent level he's against and should adjust in the second half of the season, if he doesn't think too much ; )
I'll never forget a game when an analyst observed Wiggins' shots. He said, Wiggins needs to catch and shoot. He went on to say that when he did, he made many more shots, But when he catches and dribbles and then pulls up, he misses many shots. I watched him from the point and whoever it was, was right. I think it is the hesitation that throws many shooters.
Natasha:"Look Boris, moose and squirrel."
Boris: "Not now Natasha, watching Svia and Jayhawks."
Wiggins just did wonders for KU exposure in Canada-now we'll have double the exposure Sasha Kaun got us in Russia.
Curious- why was this kid not on the recruiting radar before? Did he not open himself to be recruited or did we just not know about him? Such a sudden move, Bill!
Svi will not start over Greene. Neither would AWIII. AWIII saw both Greene and Oubre ahead of him, and I doubt very much he knew about this news before anybody else.
Most coaches were not aware that he could and did skip the 12th grade and became eligible. I am going to guess that the few college coaches that actually scout European players were looking at him as a 2015 recruit. Coach Self scored a major coup, with long term repercussions, with this signing.
And a couple of videos of him that I saw he actually PASSED THE FREAKIN' BALL WHILE IN THE PAINT.
@Blown The only curious thing is why it took so long. Same with Tharpe.
Tharpe goes 5 or 6 weeks and doesn't transfer. Graham visits, Tharpe leaves, Graham signs, Graham says that Tharpe leaving impacted his decision.
Then, White goes 6 weeks and doesn't transfer. Nothing has changed since the end of the season. Then, KU "recruiting" SM becomes public. Just a day or two later, AW3 transfers. Then KU signs SM.
Maybe no connection. But maybe there is ...
"Svi will not start over Greene" -- Ok, but will he "play" over Greene. Starters, say Mason, Selden, Oubre. Next ball handler CF or Graham. Have to have that. Does Self bench SM and play Greene? "Immediate impact" doesn't happen on the bench. Self isn't playing more than 5 rotation guys, and we know that four will be the major bulk, with the 5th generally getting scraps.
@Blown What say you?
@RockChalkinTexas Hmmm ... SM has a leg up on Wiggins already. Can you imagine how dynamic a player Wiggins would have been if he could have actually passed and found the open man on penetration? Given our team, I cannot imagine one single item improving our team more than that last season -- well, maybe other than if Tharpe's defense could have been 50% better.
@HighEliteMajor Exactly. Hope Mason learns to do that over the summer! He can't just go rushing in like a bull in the china shop and get nothing out of it. Competition amongst the players could prove to be a good motivating factor for all concerned.
@HEM Just returned from a very long, grueling, sun-filled vacation. My brain is mush. I realized I said "start" later on and knew you'd call me on it :)
Your logic is much better than mine on the "why" they transferred later.
My opinion: Naadir had one foot out the door in January/February. Something just was not right with him. I could see it all over his face when I saw him the Fieldhouse. We also got a taste of his inner agony with his play, too. Then he acted out with "The Selfie" The timing of Naa's departure was a culmination of his poor decision making, his homesickness, and knowing he barely kept his job last year and Davonte was coming in. I do agree with you that Graham played a part in his decision.
Re Andrew: I thought back in April and early May we would get the announcement from AWIII close to, or around the week of finals. I didn't think he would want to announce right away, and deal with all of the stuff on campus for six weeks. He had already been fielding questions on it dating back to February and it was wearing on him. He could barely contain himself in the Jesse Newell interview. AWIII decision was more impacted by his knowledge that Greene is better than he is, and he would have been fighting an uphill battle against Greene AND Oubre.
These articles always use catchy words like: The next Manu Ginnobli or Immediate Impact guy, which sends the readers into an expectation setting frenzy. I've been reading the boards closely now for sometime, and it happens year after year. We believe in the hype too much and start giving away "starting roles" based on the hype. Look how long it took immediate impact, best player in the last ten years to actually impact the game? Maybe people have quickly forgotten that Andrew really wasn't an "immediate impact" guy. He grew into it, and still left a lot to be desired.
The reason my opinion is that he will not play over Greene is simple. Self's system requires experience, defensive toughness/quickness and a toughening box to excel, and equally important, as we saw with the Brady Morningstar effect: One must be able to pass it inside from the perimeter to initiate Bill's offense. Brannen has already been through the toughening box, as well as being exposed to DI speed and court spacing. I expect a HUGE jump in his performance this year.
Bill is a fine wordsmith. He likes to use "immediate impact" loosely. If I recall correctly, Tarik was an Immediate impact guy, but Embiid wasn't labeled as such. That ended up being reversed. This is a good way to help a kid feel good about their decision to choose Kansas but at the same time, not declare him a starter over current roster players. He also likes the phrase "there is nobody in the country better" or similar expressions. He won't say "the best" but he will say he doesn't know of anybody better. He chooses his words very, very well.
With your scenario:
Mason/Frankamp
Selden/Oubre
Greene/Svi
Ellis/Traylor/Mickelson/Lucas
The real battle for that 8th position is between Svi & Oubre, imho. Lucas, once again, odd man out
I'm not discounting the damage Tharpe inflicted on himself with the selfie.
I know the selfie thing is generational... I'm surprised I even know what it means. But KU is a special place and students know it. I bet Tharpe faced some backlash even on a student level. I know his selfie ticked off lots of old gas alumnis like myself... and I'm sure it worked its way down to their kids who are KU students now.
From old folks down to little kids... in Kansas, most are familiar with the legacy of Jayhawk basketball, and most don't like anything that can possibly tarnish it.
That seems to be something that pierces the generation gaps...
The reality of recruiting is AWIII, and Landen Lucas are players that signed with Kansas on less than stellar recruiting years. As soon as the recruiting picks up, their usefulness to the program is for spirited practices, limited playing time, the possibility of a transfer, and not much more. We as fans, love the players, appreciate their efforts, and hate to see them go. I believe that when AWIII asked Coach Self where he stood, Coach Self told him the truth. Something along the lines of I love having you here, but if I can do better than you, I will. I cannot promise you anything other than practice time and an education.
Over the past two years, the bar to be one of the 'Great Eight" at Kansas, meaning you will get decent playing time, has been raised quite high. If you look at the top 8 players: Ellis, Oubre, Selden, and Alexander, that's four Mc Donald's All Americans. Conner Frankamp/Brannen Greene (Very well could have been a McDonald's All Americans. Traylor, spent the past 3 years, including one year as a red-shirt learning Coach Self's System, and Mickelson, transfer, with a year learning Coach Self's System. Combine that with two more elite recruits, and there just isn't any room for players such as AWIII and Landen Lucas to get substantial playing time, unless they blow the Coach's socks off and take it. AWIII made the right decision, after trying so hard for two years to earn playing time. It just was not coming. Better to transfer, and earn playing time elsewhere. I am sure he does not regret his decision to come to KU, but I don't think he thought it would end this way either. Landen Lucas on the other hand, took the red-shirt immediately and will eventually get playing time. Maybe not as much as he would like, but playing time nonetheless. He has had two years in Coach Self's system, and was only a Freshman last year.
That's life at KU, one minute Coach Self is scrambling for players, adding a player such as Kevin Young, the next minute he has more talent than he knows what to do with. I love all KU players, I just try not to fall in love with any of them. Because, well, you never know...
@icthawkfan316 I remember Bill also being supportive of Andrew when he originally said he was going to spend the summer playing with the Canadian team. But there was no covering up his joy when Andrew decided to show up in Lawrence for the summer. I suspect this might be the same way.
When a recruit visits, does he get to work out with the team? Does the coach get to put him thru some drills, combine-like?
If I had Frankamp and Greene on the floor, I'd tell the team to get them open and to only take 3s.. When Sviat and Oubre show they are shooters on that level, the message would be the same to them.
In the meantime, they are driving and dishing in or out. And the bigs are rebounding and looking for dunks when the perimeter is crowded.
We should be taking shots from two locations: 1) Three-point line and 2) the Rim.
I would lead with threes given the quality of shooters on this team.
Svi will not start over Greene. Neither would AWIII. AWIII saw both Greene and Oubre ahead of him, and I doubt very much he knew about this news before anybody else.
But Bill did and he influences the decision making process for these kids.
I look back at the Mario, Brandon, Julian, Micah recruiting class and think this one could be better assuming Svee is no Downs. But I don't think this class will have 3 kids stick around 2-3 years, so the impact may be less. :(
@oldalum I'd rather he be with the National team playing with Pro's 10 years older than he. In watching all of his video, I realize that these are simply the highlights, but I've been amazed by his ball handling and I honestly can't figure out if he is left or right handed. He has a left hand dunk from 8 feet away then an right handed dunk in the next clip, he goes right or left equally well. Brandon and Ben were both handicapped by only being able to go one direction. But then I calm down and back away from extreme expectation when I remember that he won't turn 17 until next month.
I've been very busy with end of school stuff and two graduations to boot, so maybe someone has addressed this. Is there any possibility that this underaged kid doesn't meet NCAA eligibility standards and would have to sit a year before suiting up?
@wissoxfan83
No age limit and he must take the SAT's, but he's very smart with two Phd. parents and he can take the test in Ukrainian or English.
@wissoxfan83 I've been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
@dylans Micah Downs I remember was a player who was golden from the wrist. He had a beautiful stroke from deep, but didn't take advantage of his 6'8" height. And he was somewhat a soft kid who couldn't take Self ball and was home sick. So he went back home to Gonzaga. Interestingly according to euroleague.net, he played professionally in Kiev, Ukraine recently.
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002015&seasoncode=E2013 ↗ ↗
@wrwlumpy Svi spoke good English from the interview at Nike. If he is as smart as his pedigree suggests, he'd do quite well. Svi speaks better English than Sasha did when he got to KU, and Sasha graduated with a solid GPA (Academic All American?) majoring in Computer Science. Not sure if Svi can top that.
@JayHawkFanToo Looking at the euroleague.net stat page, Downs started 4 of 5 games he played and average 40% from 3. Not bad. He was a shooting guard at KU, and still is in the pros. Based on the current stat, he is 1.95 meters or about 6'5" instead of 6'8" with the KU inches. So Svi probably is comparable in the height (6'6" in shoes) and build, and athletic ability. We will have to wait and see how Svi develops and adapts to the physical game at KU.
Here is the statshee.com stats of Micah Downs in college, http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/gonzaga/micah-downs ↗ ↗
@JayHawkFanToo Good point about Downs. Thing with Micah Downs was, that of course, in most high schools, a 6'5 kid with athleticism and a 'shot' can dominate...but in college, especially at a royalty level Div1 level, where the coaches bring in the pick of the crop in well-rounded guys...there are going to be guys with good hops, good shot%...AND are also 205-220lbs (for a 6'5-6'6 SF). That's exactly what happened to 185lb Micah Downs: He had to face 210lb B.Rush, who had one of the best 3pt% we've ever seen for a KU frosh, and he was bigger, and could play D. B.Rush set the standard. Now we can split hairs and say BRush is a "finesse" SF, but not when you compare him to Micah Downs. Also arriving about that time was Rodrick Stewart, a 6'5, 210+ lb pkg of muscle, and was a top50 recruit also (along with his twin brother Lodrick). Micah, while a very good player, simply got outclassed even on his own team...and just looking at NBA rosters, he'd be outclassed by almost all NBA 2s and SFs. Why would a coach play "small" or "thin", unless he was forced to, like when Kevin Young started for us at the 4 the year we lost to Michigan. KYo could do some things, but he was no Thomas Robinson, who manned the position the year before.
This is what I think about Connor Frankamp, that physically he is at a disadvantage on his own team...this isnt the MVC, where Connor would have been a Day 1 starter for almost every MVC team. I hope he surprises us all by finding a niche where he can contribute that Bill Self accepts and uses. I'd love for Connor to shine at KU somehow...
@ralster From the time knowing you on these boards and on kusports.com, I know you value the physical qualities. You like L&A guards. You like muscular players. In an everything created equal world, yes those are tremendous advantages to have and players with those qualities should take precedence over all others. You can't teach length and athleticism. And muscle can be difficult to put on, especially in the right places.
However, at some point we have to make room for skill & basketball IQ. That is where Connor Frankamp gains the advantage. If this were track I'd agree, Connor is an MVC caliber player. But basketball is more about skill and the mental aspect than simply being a freakish athlete. Ask yourself, in March would you rather have the 5 best athletes on the court, or the 5 most skilled basketball players?
Now where this becomes perhaps a simple academic discussion is when we look at what Self is likely to prefer. Tough to say. On the one hand, we know he covets the things you can't teach, because his ego tells him he can make good basketball players out of athletes. The Al Davis syndrome. We saw this with Tyshawn for years. The classic Self quote "He'll make plays that you just can't coach, then he'll make plays that you wonder if he has ever been coached." Did Tyshawn ever really "get it"? Senior year, particularly when conference play started, he played as good as any guard in the country. But was that due to him finally making smart basketball plays, or was it due to him finally finishing more shots at the rim and his trey gun improving?
On the other hand, we've seen Self go with the smart play. Playing Brady for years over guys like EJ & Releford. Brady was fairly average in the athleticism department. But he had a few simple things that made him a Self favorite. Things that some posters liked to mock (his entry passes to the post being one), which is pretty laughable, until you see the next guy throw it out of bounds or right into the hand of the defender.
Personally, I think CF should be the starting PG to start next year. To me, that wouldn't be a "surprise". I don't think he should be looking for a "niche". The comparison of Frankamp to the Downs-Rush situation is not a very good one in my opinion. As you stated, Rush had a good 3pt shot, and he was bigger and could defend. So basically the one plus Downs had in his bag, the 3pt shot, was matched by Rush and then he was "outclassed". But when you put Frankamp up against say Mason, you don't get the trey gun, or the basketball IQ, or the propensity to take care of the ball from Mason. So while Mason is bigger (bulk), stronger, faster than Frankamp, he doesn't also match Frankamp's strengths the way Rush matched those of Downs.
Of course who knows what improvements the players will have shown come November? Mason may have closed the gap with an improved outside shot. He may show more maturity when valuing the basketball. Or Connor may add 10 lbs of muscle to his frame and show quicker footwork on his defense. My point is, if the next season started right after the Stanford game, my vote would have been for Frankamp to run the team.
@wissoxfan83 I've been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
I guess, @HighEliteMajor, it depends on how you define risk. Did recruiting Enes Kanter expose UK to more risk? I wouldn't say so. Yeah, he was disqualified from amateur status, but that all happened before the season and it's not like UK didn't have plenty of great front court talent besides him. In that sense, even if there's a greater chance that Svi isn't allowed to compete, we're less exposed because there is relatively little need for him in our back court. And it's also not the case the UK incurred any penalties in terms of games stricken. If there's any question about his eligibility, I'm sure Self will be prudent and hold him out of competition.
As far as a European flight risk (a la Pappapetrou), it could happen, but American players do this too (see Josiah Turner's transfer to SMU or Aquille Carr and Seton Hall). Also, while I don't know the specifics on Pappapetrou, given that Greece was/is going through unprecedented economic turmoil, I don't find it difficult to believe that his family might have urgently needed the money. The Ukraine doesn't have the greatest economy in the world, but the fact that Svi's parents are both employed professionals gives me solace. It's also not that different from players that transfer out of homesickness or in search of greener pastures.
Academic eligibility is a question mark because of the whole needing to pass an additional test, but like my first statement, even if he doesn't pass, we're really no worse off in the back court. So that wouldn't be much different than the McLemore/Traylor/Anderson situation (particularly the Anderson part of it), only we're not as exposed as we were then.
The risk of losing another player to transfer is definitely there, but that's the same anytime we land multiple top players at the same position (like the aforementioned Downs/Rush affair). I think everyone is aware that the possibility exists that we add this kid, he plays for a year, then bolts for Europe all while spawning a transfer. It'd be unfortunate, but how damaging it really is depends on who and whether or not it's something we can shore up on the recruiting trail/transfer market, and/or who's left on the team after the fact.
The real worst case scenario would be that Svi is ruled ineligible after a title season and we have to remit a title. Truly that would be devastating, but that could happen with anyone (the McLemore scandal of last season certainly raised some hairs, but ultimately seems to have petered out). I'd be more afraid of this if A) I thought we were a real title favor (I'll reserve judgement on that until after I see us compete against UK) or B ) the NCAA appeared to have any teeth theses days. The former is a nice problem to have. The latter, however, is something that I become less an less concerned about the more often that scandals come and go and nothing is done about them. From our own McLemore-gate or Pot-gate to Duke's watch-gate or Cuse's Pot-gate, there seem to be a lot of these things that spawn headlines each season and that, ultimately, nothing ever comes of. Even something the level of Miami-FL was so badly mishandled, it's tough to take the threat seriously. I'll wait to see the full fallout of OSU's mess before I either pronounce NCAA rules enforcement dead or revived. I suspect, however, that it will continue to limp along as the gimped worm that it is.
@ralster Rush certainly outclassed Downs, but I'm not sure if he would fail to shine if Rush had left after one year and he had stuck out all 4 years at KU. Downs was a 28th rated player just like Brannen Greene and about the same physical aspects. If Greene is capable going to the NBA per Coach Self, Downs might have as well. Guess the difference might be the desire and competitiveness. We will have to see what Greene is made of and whether he will be successful enough to get drafted.
Rod Stewart came before Downs and I don't remember he was more effective than Downs. He was injured big time.
By the way. I updated KU recruiting 2002-2014
@icthawkfan316 and @ralster You both made great points. I think Frankamp has the smarts and I like how he finished the season strong.
@icthawkfan316 Great post & breakdown, ict. It really made me think about what not only I personally like, but what it seems Self likes...nothing more than pattern-recognition-with-hindsight as we try to figure what Self will do. Self tries to target long-athletic athletes, then tries to teach them to play at a high level. Intelligent decision-making, and with the basketball skills to finish in a variety of ways. He wants that out of his guards, but also out of his bigs. So I'll "abstract" my discussion in to Self's 'ideal' player, and not make this so much about Connor Frankamp, although I will refer to him a bit later here.
Here's a list of attributes Self wants in his guards (1, 2, and wing positions):
1 -- Skillset. Be able to score. Be able to shoot. Competent handles required. Knack for passing is a big plus. (See RussRob and Brady).
2 -- Athletic. Quick feet, and fast-twitch abundance serves the player well if he is using his "first-step" quickness to blowby, or using his ability on the defensive end. Having hops is a plus, but that can vary. And for some, quickness on 1 end of the court is NO predictor of performance on the other (either) end of the court.
3 -- Intelligence to learn the system. Be able to read and react to various presses and opposing D's. Offensively we have dozens of set-plays to learn. I'll quote Roy here as he talked about CJ Gile: "...bless his heart, he cant remember the plays for even the few minutes I get him in the game...". Interesting that Self actually dismissed CJGile (not just for beating up his girlfriend)--what good is a jump outta the gym athlete if he's in the wrong spot at the wrong time??? The polar opposite of CJGile would be Embiid, who just wasnt supposed to know all of those post moves, or passing out of doubleteams, or dream-shakes, or swat-timing...just how'd he pick up all of that so quick? Both were mad-athletic...but one had a brain to be proud of...
4 -- Toughness. Shouldnt I have listed this first? Arent we talking about HateSoftBillSelf? Usually a physically bigger specimen has an e-a-s-i-e-r time of playing Selfball. Occasionally, there are exceptions in both directions: physically athletic specimens playing soft (Ellis, EJ at times...), or physically light specimens playing tough (Kevin Young, and we hope Connor Frankamp?). Evidently, 180lb KYo was tougher than his KU teammate (245lb Zach Peters)...as after a practice session altercation, Peters gets a concussion/ultimately quits the team...while KYo got the broken hand. But make no mistake, KYo was nowhere close to Thomas Robinson, and there was something missing in Bill Self's bigman game in the 2013 season, ending with the loss to Michigan. (Withey+KYo were the starting postmen). Guard toughness? Let's talk about those who have set the standard: RussRob, Sherron, Chalmers, Rush, Releford, Brady (defensively). Not a single one of those guys was under 190lbs. And, no, they werent all long-athletics.
5 -- Physicality & conditioning. I almost didnt list this as a separate category...but honestly, all we've talked about year after year under Self is how his requirements have caused Andrea Hudy to craft a comprehensive training regimen to meet Self's conditioning and defensive stamina requirements. She specifically said so last year. We 'Hudition' them for a few very key reasons.
Let's just summarize our guards with the blanket statement: Frankamp, Graham, Mason, Mikhailiuk, Selden...they ALL got work to do in the various departments above.
And finally, I live near Wichita, grew up in Wichita, went to undergrad in Wichita (before KU professional school)...so nothing would make me happier than seeing some Wichita kid shine at KU, right? So Perry Ellis needs to find his above-rim game & hops & aggression--his early sophomore-MarcusMorris impersonation needs to evolve up to junior-level Marcus, with a little bit of TRob thrown in. And dear Connor Frankamp, who already seems a bright, intelligent little guard with a good a:t ratio, needs mother nature's (and Hudy's) maturing process to add some mass and quickness to even give him a chance of competing against his own teammates, in order to win some real mpg...something we all want to see, so we can judge better. (As a corollary to this, how would KU have done vs. Duke with Connor getting all the minutes that Frank Mason got? Would KU have won that game?
Bottom line: I think Self believes he can take athletes and teach them to be efficient, smart basketball players. His payoff is HUGE: if he succeeds, he has crafted the perfect player, that does it all. Then I see him take "developmental experiments" with guys like Withey, Frankamp, Brady, Teahan, etc., and we all can judge the results with hindsight. I hope Frankamp succeeds.
Again, I hope Frankamp succeeds. Wouldnt it be nice to have our own Farokhmanesh or Keiton Page? I've seen Frankamp dunk, so he certainly has some level of athleticism. Sherron and Mason were not long-athletics, but both were tough. The only category Mason is lacking is evidenced by his frosh learning curve and poor-but-improving decision making. Some of the issue with both Mason and Frankamp is that they are both 6ft or less. Even with a quick closeout, opposing guards can still get their shot off. Contrast that with 6'4 Brady, 190lbs, who bothered 95% of opposing wing players, and was able to do it without fouling out all the time.
At the risk of sounding like a Kentucky Wildcat fan, let me say: 'dont get to enamored with recruits'...they either pan out, or they dont. Or they get recruited over, and then transfer. Guys will get replaced. Self just proved that, and has done so ever since he got here. He's not going to stop recruiting the best guys.
And the talk about Connor in the Stanford game...well Mason was in that game late also (not benched like Tharpe), and I recall Mason missing that corner open 3...but Connor's clutch shooting was a bright spot for him, even if we lost that game. But that doesnt take away what Mason steadily improved on all season: on ball D, decision making, and even his 3%. Prior to that Stanford game, CF's 3% was in the 20's (worst on the team)...and Mason's wasnt much better. Point is, for KU's sake, they both need to improve on different aspects of all of the above.
Let me put it yet another way: I got a 'W' over Duke thanks to Frank Mason, and I saw why Self pleaded with Mason to come to KU. But he was still a frosh, we saw the learning curve. I like Connor's a:t ratio, but the rest of his ability remains to be seen, so I am waiting...I recall CF's first few games, he didnt hit a single 3...unlike that other Conner (Teahan) who seemed to have a charmed 3stroke his frosh season.
Much improvement needed by all these young Jayhawks.
I've been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
@HighEliteMajor Double bull hockey.
1) Your first sentence only makes sense if Self had to choose between SM and a USA kid with the same talent and skill: he didn't. Besides, even if he did there were 2 scholarships available. Don't imply that it's an either/or situation, it just isn't.
2) Enes Kanter took money and played pro: SM didn't. End of comparison.
@ParisHawk It's kind of kidding around, but ok ..
How do you know this kid didn't take money? I forgot. You were following him around Europe. So I stand corrected.
Mykhailiuk said the following: “I have pro experience. In Ukraine I play on a pro team. There were guys 10 years older than me, 12 years,” said Mykhailiuk, who turns 17 on June 10. “I don’t have problems with these (older) guys."
How many kids here "have pro experience" and play on a "pro team"?
Doesn't mean that he took money, but sure seems like more chance for impropriety that could get the NCAA delaying or denying his eligibility. I'm just saying it may be a bit more risk.
Also, again, the kid is "graduating" after the 11th grade because the Ukraine permits a "test" to skip the 12th grade. I, of course, wouldn't expect the NCAA to scrutinize that. Not saying it will be a problem, just saying that it seems like a bit more likely that it could be. Risk, that's all.
I'm not implying it's an "either/or" situation between this kid and a USA recruit. I know there is no real available option here to sign, of that quality. I have never done that. I just said it's more risk.
My main argument against this kid was the impact his presence may have on our current roster, i.e., a transfer or two. And then, coupled with the increased possibility, because he is actually from Europe and has never lived here, and that he could struggle for P.T., that he might leave early to grab a paycheck in Europe -- it might not be the best move. We could lose a transfer, and then lose him too. That's my main concern.
I saw someone post that his parents are educators, and Phd's, or whatever, so they must want him to stay in college here more than a year. Of course, they're sending their kid half way around the world to a basketball school, not Harvard or Stanford. My guess is Harvard would have taken him. I'm sure Tommy Amaker could have made that happen.
It is almost comical how defensive some folks get on a pure risk analysis. I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that signing a kid from overseas brings more risk.
You can't look at any signing in a vacuum -- a "well, we have an open scholarship." There is always a collateral impact.
I bring up Kanter or Papapetrou and it's "this kid isn't anything like that ..." Right, we say that because we know.
Here's what Rustin Dodd said at the KC Star on May 22, after I posted my concerns by the way --
"But one thing to keep in mind: European players always have the option of leaving college and returning to play professionally in Europe. Take the case of Ioannis Papapetrou, a one-time Kansas recruiting target who spent the 2012-13 season at Texas. Papapetrou, a 6-foot-9 forward, averaged 8.3 points and 4.4 rebounds during his freshman season, and he looked like a solid building block for Longhorns coach Rick Barnes. But last summer, Greek pro team Olympiacos — one of the top clubs in Europe — gave Papapetrou an offer he couldn’t refuse, a reported five-year deal worth approximately $2 million. This is one of the inherent risks of signing European teenagers. They will always have more options than their American counterparts."
Don't forget, Barnes, as I had previously posted, said one week before he left i August/2013 that Papapetrou would "definitely" be back. Uh, no.
But I'm not completely negative on the signing. I like our guys. We could win with our perimeter without this kid. But it was pointed out that if Selden and Oubre leave, we only would have four perimeter players for next season without SM. Perhaps good reason to take the increased risk.
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/22/5039706/a-deeper-look-at-some-questions.html#storylink=cpy ↗
D-1 Basketball is big boy basketball. It's not the end of the world when someone ask to or is asked to transfer. Other than sitting out for one year, in most cases it's best or all parties concerned. Coach Self had an excellent chance for a title last season. Team chemistry was starting to develop. We had an eraser (Embiid) to clean up defensive lapses and then he got hurt. Season was toast from that point, and the effort to win was made. I applaud our team. Had they been healthy, who knows.
Obviously Coach Self was not pleased, so changes have been made to improve this year's team. These changes will prove to be for the better. As a fan, I get upset when my team loses, but life goes on. I am sure the other 300+ D-1 Schools would like to win the whole thing year in and year out as well. It is after all competition. In reality 12 players have a realistic chance to earn playing time. From that group, 8 will get significant playing time. The other 4 are there for practice, scrimmages, injuries, and blowouts. Whether a player will transfer or not is irrelevant due to the fact that Coach Self always has a Plan B and a Plan C. We win every year, top ten every year. That's good enough for me. We have been to the final game twice recently. I don't believe we will have 20 years between titles again.
@KansasComet Great post. I especially like the second paragraph. It is good to keep in mind that KU has been to the Finals twice just in the last 6 years and that we are a top 10 team in contention year in and year out. RCJH.
@KansasComet You said - "We had an eraser (Embiid) to clean up defensive lapses and then he got hurt. Season was toast from that point, and the effort to win was made. I applaud our team. Had they been healthy, who knows."
I'm curious, without Embiid, you don't think we should have beaten Stanford?
All was not lost with Embiid out. I'm sure Self didn't believe that.
After Stanford, most thought Embiid would have returned. Even if he didn't, we would have played Dayton to go to the Elite 8. And then Florida with a one game chance to get to the Final Four. If we lose to Florida without Embiid, no shame there. But losing to Stanford was flat out embarrassing, as it would have been if we'd have lost to Dayton (with or without Embiid). Both games we should win, no doubt.
You also said "We win every year, top ten every year. That's good enough for me." --- that's just where we respectfully differ. But I envy your peace of mind.
Embiid, a potential number one overall pick got hurt. He was a game changer. I think we could have beat Stanford with him. Who knows what would have happened? It didn't, and life goes on. It's a high paced, stressful, and exciting game. Part of the fun is the fact that we could lose. That's what makes it interesting. I love winning, but nothing is going to change the facts after the final buzzer. My disappointment last about two weeks max.
I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year. Or how anyone could have thought "Coach Self had an excellent chance for a title last season." There were too many games they played poorly or inconsistently. A game or two against mediocre teams they easily could have lost--i.e. UTEP and at Texas Tech. Also, especially the second half of the Oklahoma State game at AFH. These should have sent up red flags to all those who expected a great postseason run.
At the beginning of the NCAA tournament, KU already had 9 losses. Only two champions had lost that many since KU's 11 in 1988. They didn't put together 6 straight games all year that were impressive. The tournament wasn't the time they were going to do that either against solid or great teams--especially with poor guard play and Embiid sitting out.
From my perspective, I was disappointed in Bill's lack of effort in the Stanford game. Possibilities: 1) He was tired and dozed off. 2) He knew the season was over. I say that because he made NO changes offensively or defensively until it was way too late. The commentators ALL made suggestions on how to free-up Wiggins, for example. Bill waited to press until it was way too late. We all have "off" days. However, when you're only on the bench 30-some days out of 365 and making 3+ mil, we fans have a right to expect your best effort every time.
Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of Bill. I just think in 10+ years KU Basketball has missed out on some opportunities to be even better.
@Wigs2 "I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year."
Again, this is puzzling. We lost to a #10 seed. We should have won that game going away.
I understand that we didn't have the look of a title team. Our defense was horrendous. And we didn't have an offensive approach to make up for it. You pointed out that we hadn't had 6 impressive games in a row all season. However, you don't need 6 "impressive" games. You need 6 wins. You just need to survive. We started conference play 7-0. I'd say the stretch itself was impressive.
But goodness -- not understanding why anyone was "extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year"?
I'd be interested to hear who lives on that planet.
@HighEliteMajor This year ended for me like most football seasons. " Thank goodness it's finally over ". ( 10 losses, really?? )
With the exception of 3 or 4 games, we looked lackluster and very Un-KU like all season long.
Having said that - heck yeah, I was extremely disappointed with the way we finished this year. I ain't on that planet.....
You keep bringing up Papapetru as comparison and you (and Rustin Dodd) have it wrong as you are comparing apples to oranges or in other words European Leagues and NBA prospects.
Papapetru WAS NOT a NBA prospect and he came to the States for a chance to improve his game for a future in the European Leagues, not the NBA, and the first chance that he had he bolted for the place that was his final destination any way. BTW, his contract was for FIVE years at about $400K per year; this is what undrafted players make in the NBA to be part of the practice squad; however, this is big money in Europe and as such it comes with a long contract.
Svi, on the other hand, is being referred as the best European prospect since Ricky Rubio and his goal is the NBA and NOT the European Leagues. If he goes back to Europe for the money, he will be tied up on a long term contract that would delay his goal of making it ti the NBA. Look what happened to Ricky Rubio, he signed a long term contract that ended up delaying his entry to the NBA and costing him a lot of money.
If after one year Svi is till and NBA prospect, for the reason listed above, there is no way he goes back to Europe. If he goes back to Europe is because he did not show enough to stay as NBA prospect and hence its not a big loss.
Also, unlike the NBA, the Euro Leagues have no minimum pay and players can play for a professional team without being paid. The NCAA actually does not have a problem if players that come from the European Leagues received compensation for meals, lodging and incidental as long as it does not exceed a certain amount; in Kanter's situation, he received considerably more that the amount the NCAA allows and thus he was not allowed to play for UK. BTW, if you talk to people that follow Euro BBall, this was a known fact and the squid just tried to pull a fast one and for once he got bitch slapped by the NCAA.
In summary, if he is a stud or shows potential he will see playing time, will stay two years and then bolt for the NBA. If he is a bust or show Euro League and not NBA potential, he leaves after one year and there is no downside since there are scholarships available anyway. If I were a betting m,an I would pick the first case.
Our guards have been whipped the last two years. We haven't had good ball handlers or passers. Last year, any token pressure, and we flat melted. I don't think Frank is our answer, anymore than Naadir was our answer. Bill keeps turning over the keys to the Caddy to valets who've never driven before.... and they keep wrecking the car. Our answer lies between Graham and CF. I've seen the "CF can't play Div1 ball" posts, and I don't agree with them. I saw a determined man play two games in the tournament, and literally took the games over. If the litmus test is playing defense, how did Naadir ever see a minute on the court?
I think Graham makes an impact with his passing, and ball handling skills. This kid isn't going to be turned over like Naadir and Frank were last year. I think he'll make teams pay for trying to pressure us.
@HighEliteMajor So we lost to a #10 seed. Who cares? I don't understand why you are so fixated on that. Everyone on this board was disappointed that they lost to Stanford. KU could very easily have been seeded at least a couple notches lower. I am only saying they didn't play well enough during the course of the season to expect much better.
You're right that they started with an impressive 7-0 run (four at AFH and one at TCU) in the conference. The last 13 games before the NCAA tourney, they went 8-5. That was not impressive at all. And it certainly wouldn't cause most to expect them to make a decent tournament run.
@HighEliteMajor sucks anytime we lose! But Stanford was a tough matchup for us. If Tarik could have 6 fouls, we win. If we had the Embiid that I see now, we win a few more! He looks so much stronger, amazing me!
@JayHawkFanToo It is amazing to me how you can see into the future. Papapetrou was no different than a guy like Tyshawn Taylor. He would have to work to get to the NBA.
You seem to think that because their situations are apparently different, there is no way he'll bolt after one year or before. You seem to discount that he might be homesick in a new culture. And you seem to discount the possibility that if he shows that he is a real player, that a Euro league team might offer him a nice deal. Heck, if he is so much better than Papapetrou, then he'd like command more money. Say, 3 years, 3 million? Or stay in college.
Again, I haven't said it will happen. You just keep saying it won't.
You point to Rubio as if it supports your argument, but Rubio did sign a deal.
And I do appreciate that you seem to be able to tell us without doubt that this kid never took any benefits beyond those permitted by the NCAA.
I just find that sort of apparent certainty comical, particularly when you give no credence to the risks. I understand and appreciate your argument, but it loses credibility when you present it as a certainty.
@Wigs2 No, actually, you said "I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year."
Now you say, "So, we lost to a #10 seed. Who cares?" Well, seeding is a reflection of your performance during the season, and most times, the quality of team. And watching Stanford, they weren't that good. Are we going to debate that? Are we going to debate that KU should have beaten Stanford with or without Embiid by 10 points? I'm sure we will.
It's a way to rationalize the significant failure of our coaching staff in having this group ready to play in the NCAA. You cite the end of the season -- that was a collapse too.
Your argument is that the way we played this season, apparently with Embiid, "wouldn't cause most to expect" a decent tourney run.
Well, I don't know, if you have the #1 and #2 (or #3) picks on your roster, you might. Maybe.
@Crimsonorblue22 I thought CF played average defense. Not as good as Mason (although I think Mason's defensive reputation comes largely from one play, the block/strip of Nash at the end of the Okie St. game), but he showed good instincts & effort; he was almost always in the right place. I always watched both Mason & CF on defense, particularly when they subbed in for Tharpe. You could always immediately see the difference. Even when they got beat, it wasn't as maddening because they didn't have, as HEM would say, the "whipped puppy" look that Tharpe had.
@HighEliteMajor HEM, I 'm not going to deny that we could have or should have beaten Stanford. I just don't get your point to keep harping on it for the past 9 weeks. It's over. I expected the Hawks to beat Stanford but I certainly wasn't surprised that they lost.
They were lucky to win at Texas Tech. Had to hold on against Okie State, when they almost blew a 17-point halftime lead.
Maybe you're right that Self should be recruiting lower-ranked players who may (or may not) develop well enough to get them to another FF. Maybe the coaching staff should be fired for leading KU to only 2 FF championship games in the past 7 years. Maybe Zenger should be looking for a coach that wouldn't produce such lofty expectations. Then you wouldn't be so distraught at the end-of-the-season losses. I've been through a number of years like that. Seasons when KU had outstanding players but didn't get into the NCAA tournament. I don't really care to go back to those years.
@Crimsonorblue22 I keep hearing that meme and it makes me wonder if there isn't something else behind it. It seems the only player that anyone is remotely worried about their defense is CF, and the entire fan base seems to be completely obsessed about it.
@HighEliteMajor I'll grant there are non-zero chances that he will not be eligible next year OR there will be an extra transfer OR he will go back to Europe, but some of those risks cancel each other out. If he gets in a McLemore situation then why would anybody transfer? If he leaves after a year then transferring becomes less of a necessity.
How can you compare with Rubio? He never came to college. You have one example of a European who left after a year.
You have one example of a European who lost his eligibility.
I have one example of an American who chose Europe over college: Brandon Jennings. Should we be worried that our American recruits won't come to KU?
You are now saying "a bit more risk". Fine: a bit.
Again, if you are going to quote me at least do it correctly. Nothing I post is a certainty because none of us can predict the future; however, we can make educated guesses as to what could/might happen based on known facts and precedent.
Svi has already played for professional teams and has been exposed to big time basketball, and has had a a taste of American basketball as well, and knows what it takes to be away from home, By all accounts he comes from an well do do, accomplished family and he seems to have the same drive. So no, I don't believe he will suddenly miss the homeland and run home. Again, I am not saying it will not happen, I am simply saying that based on his background and experiences it is unlikely.
Yes, Rubuio, the best prospect in Europe signed a contract but it was for SIX years with a $8.1 million buyout. Even the best prospect in Europe could not get a short term contract without a buyout. This is what I am talking about and you seem bound and determined to ignore. The Rubio contract was a wake up call to all European players with NBA aspirations. Do you really believe that if Svi is that good he will want to get stuck in a similar contract with huge buyout that would greatly delay his entry to the NBA, where the real money is? I don't think so. Could it happen? Sure it could happen, but again, if he is as good as advertised, the odds are he will not. If he does not live up to the hype and does have the skill to be a NBA prospect, then he might well go back to Europe...as I previously indicated.
I have family and friends in Europe that follow basketball, and of course soccer, closely and the Kanter situation was well known over there, as it was the family that went looking (and getting) the money and there were plenty of reports/allegations on the subject and people that regularly follow basketball in Europe already knew this; the only surprising part is that Calipari thought he could get it pas the NCAA. On the other hand, there is no indication whatsoever, NONE, that Svi (or family) took any undue money. Again, I am not stating this as a fact that they did not, nobody really can, but there is no evidence that I could find that he did either.
I do find it comical that you, of all people, interpret my "opinions" as certainty so you can justify your own opinion. I certainly never claimed them to be facts, simply informed opinions and/or conjectures which is all we can offer anyway...after all this is what forums like this are for...right?
@JayHawkFanToo -- I think Mykhailiuk wants to play in the NBA. He has most likely already has had contracts offers with the terms you talk of. I do believe that's why he is here. Mykhailiuk doesn't want to be stuck in a European contract delaying his aspirations to play in the NBA. I think the bigger question is Mykhailiuk choosing to play college ball at KU a game changer? Is this the beginning of top young European players coming to the states.
@truehawk93-Not the new kid to RS, Greene to RS. Just a thought.
@globaljaybird If I were offered 100 to 1 odds regarding Greene's taking a red shirt, I would not wager more than 50 cents. The only way I could envision that happening would be a serious pre-season injury. Things might change dramatically in the next five months, esp. with that one open scholarship dangling; but at this juncture, the only perimeter player whom I see as a possible red shirt is CF. Actually, I would like to see Conner in the program for five years. His game is dynamite, but body still demands tweaks.
@Crimsonorblue22 I wasn't picking on you - I was picking on the idea that CF is a huge liability in any part of his game... even defense. The kid is smart as a whip, and he simply has the ability to change a game. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he has been out on that court everyday working on his deficiencies. I know, I know he's short. He's white. He would get creamed matching up against the Harrison twins...but I saw something in that kid in those tournament games I haven't seen since Travis graduated - a gritty, tough as nails competitor that relished in the spotlight. I mean, we were getting our ass stomped by Stanford, and this freshman came off the bench, and almost pulled the game out for us. He was nothing short of amazing. Go back and watch his sequence near the end of the Stanford game. It's really a work of art.
@HighEliteMajor Just an interesting quote, that almost all of Jayhawks would definitely believe every single season under BOTH Self and Roy: "...We lost to a #10 seed. We should have won that game going away..."
I think that idea in that quote is an abstraction: Most days, with most Jayhawk teams, and against most 10-seeds, we should win.
But dealing with that gametape analytically: we didnt have the tools to go inside against their collapsing zone, and with Embiid out (an ultra-elite big), and with BigBlack fouled out, it left us with 2 6'8 guys who had trouble finishing against the size and gameplan of Stanford. And they were seasoned vets (upperclassman-heavy Stanford team), able to execute their coach's plan. Now look at KU: Once Black out we are small ball. With a dumbed-down offense, out of necessity, as 5mos isnt long enough to learn even half of the set offense. And our best recruit in the history of KU, Wiggins, cannot penetrate like he could in other games, and he got gameplanned as well (as you have cited his post-game quote...). Oh, and our most experienced 'PG' is sitting over there on the KU bench watching his headless team flounder. The team sees Embiid sitting. The team sees Wiggins failing. The team sees BigBlack foul out (another team leader)...So where was this team's mojo/swagger/confidence? To me, what Frankamp did was too little, too late. That could never have been part of Self's gameplan, because Connor had never done that all season. That performance by Frankamp simply didnt exist in all of KU's season, until those last few minutes.
Self's gameplan of inside-out high% looks simply couldnt get it done with half the horses sitting on the bench: Tharpe, Embiid, Black. Selden had knee surgery shortly after the season, so he is off the hook.
@nuleafjhawk nailed my sentiments about as accurately as Stanford nailed their gameplan: ..."10 losses, really? With the exception of 3 or 4 games, we looked lackluster and very un-KU like all season long.... Same team needed a buzzer beater, loose ball putback by Wiggins to defeat TEXAS TECH in Lubbock. I think Stanford is a better team than the TubbieTechies, eh?
Stanford is exactly the type of senior-laden midmajor team to upset a name opponent, who brings a lackluster game, coupled with key players out. Yes, we should have beat them, but certain matchups, especially physicality-type matchups, were NOT our forte this past season. Nor were facing experienced defensive schemes being executed against our inexperience. That's it.
All that softness and effort lackluster-ness is about to get fixed, bigtime...and so is going into battle with only 1/3rd of the usual Self-amount of repertoire and excellence of execution.
Thinking Self "slept" on this one is selling him 'short', and expecting too 'long' out of a wounded, depleted, inexperienced KU team. What else was he going to call, that he didnt in timeout after timeout? He cannot make Ellis and Traylor make the paint shots they missed. Those are the high% looks he wants. If Wiggins cant get his shot going, I dont think he is going to turn into this "high post passer" that the announcers kept talking about--why? Because Andrew Wiggins had never done that all season, and never played as a passing-high-post-4man ALL season. Yeah, I heard the announcers keep saying that, and it was a sound piece of strategy for some other team or some other game, but not with a guy who's never done what they were proposing, and, I also highly doubted Self would ask Wiggins to try something he'd never asked him to try before, all season. The high% usage of Andrew Wiggins was to ask him to do what he did best all season (penetrate and pull-up-J's and try to get to the FT line.) Our D was actually decent, and we only had 13 turnovers...our failure was on the offensive end by poor finishing, execution, and limited options/toolkit to begin with.
Maybe a different comparison helps my fellow Jayhawks as we try to contemplate and put this '13-14 season behind us: The 2011-12 National Runner Up Jayhawks (Withey/TRob/Releford/EJ/TT/KYo/Teahan) were a better "team" than the 2013-14 'Hawks. More W's. More toughness. More swagger. More execution. More defense. More experience. More leadership. More plays at their disposal. More results. More heart. No injuries. No Mickey D's. Almost no bench. Yes, they still lost in the end, but my god those guys put up a hell of a fight, every time out!
Doing these post-loss analytics, sometimes I get the idea to do a piece on "Anatomy of a KU Loss", but I think it could be too depressing for some. Boy, who'd want to see that thread, Im not sure I do. To me, the losses sting just as hard as they do to other royalty program fans, especially if its a lower seed type 'upset'...(UNI, VCU, Stanford...). But the answer of "why didnt we win" or "how'd they beat us" lies right there on the tape...
Most of the time, though, (to give a CliffNotes one-line summation): KU beats itself, usually in more than one major statistical category. So there is always hope, especially when a loss is countergrain to our usual tendencies. Unfortunately, the Stanford loss was simply a repeat of a much-too-often pattern of lackluster, limited play that is pretty much unique to the '13-14 season, due to several factors. Said another way: the Stanford loss showed or 'exposed' our "grain".
It all gets better, you will all see...due to several factors at play. '14-15 will be fun.
@Wigs2 At times, I don't think folks get my points here. My fault I guess. All I want, really, is coach Self to be flexible. To assess his talent and be willing to change course if necessary to compete in March. To be honest, isn't he the exact kind of coach you'd want to coach against? You really would never have to worry about being surprised.
@JayHawkFanToo - When you are attacking the idea that there is more risk in taking on a European player, that seems pretty definitive to me. By saying there is not more risk, you are definitively saying that it's just like a kid from the USA. The mere fact that the kid is coming from a completely different culture to the US, without having lived here before, is an increased risk of departure standing alone, correct? You can admit that, right? You admit that he could go to Europe for the money after one season. I admit, so could a US kid. There are just some reasonable items that increase the risk. That's all. Now, when you say it's unlikely .. that's hard for me to accept. Unlikely? We just don't know: and I certainly wouldn't say that it is likely the kid will leave. But from a logical standpoint, objectively less likely than Papapetrou? I can buy that. Your arguments clearly establish that. But, likewise, I would suggest that my arguments clearly establish an increased risk of bolting after one season than the normal KU player (just and increased risk), and thus the risk of collateral roster damage.
@Vailhawk - I referred to Rubio because @JayHawkFanToo did in his discussion. The example of Papapetrou, truly, is unimportant. The risk thing is simply looking at geography, culture, and options given the kid's situation.
@HighEliteMajor nooooo!
Again, you are misrepresenting what I said. I did not "attack" the idea that here is more risk taking European players. In fact I did not address the subject of taking European players at large, other than to indicate that Rubio's situation was a "wake up call" to all European, true NBA prospects; in fact, Enes Kanter, a true NBA prospect heeded the warning and chose to sit one year here rather than go back to Europe and a contract that would delay his entry to the NBA, right?. I simple addressed two individuals, Svi and Papapetru, and pointed out the differences between the two situations and my conclusion was that Papapetru would end up in Europe anyway, right? But Svi, by virtue of his much higher NBA potential was indeed a much lesser risk of bolting back to Europe, right?
Again, I did not say that European players are more or less likely to bolt; it depend on the individual circumstances, and in Svi's case, I feel pretty confident that if he is as good as advertised he will stay 2 years, and if he is not, he may or may not go back to Europe, in which case it would not make that much of a difference as far as KU is concerned, right?
@JayHawkFanToo No, I'm sorry, you did. Your whole argument was why he wouldn't bolt. Saying the money wouldn't be worth it, speculating that he'd have to sign a long term deal (though Jennings of course signed a 3 year deal), claiming players learned from Rubio, suggesting because he'd been exposed to "big time" basketball and "knows what it takes to be away from home" he wouldn't "suddenly miss his homeland and run home."
My argument is the risk is greater because he is from Europe and played in a European pro league. You made an argument against that, while saying you don't know. But no, it's too hard to even simply concede that a kid playing in an overseas pro league might be a bit more of a risk to have taken something the NCAA might say is impermissible. That's just arguing to argue because you want so bad to defend the signing.
But you CAN do both -- you can very much support the signing, but also acknowledge the obvious risks generally inherent in signing an overseas player.
Maybe this will make it easier for you -- there are more moving parts with a kid from overseas. More moving parts create more risk. Can you at least bring yourself to concede that?
@HighEliteMajor I'll concede that there is in general a bit more risk in taking a European player than in taking an American player.
OK? I conceded.
Now can you bring yourself to concede something?
That is not the issue.
We are still talking about SM, right? If so, you have to compare the "risk" of taking him versus the "risk" of having a scholarship open. There is no American player Self passed on to take SM.
No question, you have mentioned some real risks, such as current players transferring. Good for you.
But this comparing of SM to a non-existent American recruit should stop: that comparison doesn't apply here since we still have a scholarship open and no American recruit to give it to.
@ParisHawk That's not what I've stated as my concern. My concern is that we take a kid that has an increased risk of leaving, and that kid can cause collateral damage to our roster by triggering a transfer -- Greene, Mason, or CF. You also take away a scholarship for 2015 which could be a guy developing behind our solid perimeter (but that argument is a very weak one).
But I agree and concede 100%, in a vacuum, I'd sign this kid in a minute. There is no comparable player to sign now. In fact, he looks terrific -- and if he stays two seasons or more, he could be the perfect recruit. In fact, but for coming from overseas, he probably is. I also concede that as @JayHawkFanToo has mentioned, and you might have as well, the risk analysis favors signing the kid.
Also, @ParisHawk -- what is your avatar? Looks like Releford -- in Europe?
@ralster -- Wanted to highlight the shear brilliance of this quote from you above:
"Maybe a different comparison helps my fellow Jayhawks as we try to contemplate and put this '13-14 season behind us: The 2011-12 National Runner Up Jayhawks (Withey/TRob/Releford/EJ/TT/KYo/Teahan) were a better "team" than the 2013-14 'Hawks. More W's. More toughness. More swagger. More execution. More defense. More experience. More leadership. More plays at their disposal. More results. More heart. No injuries. No Mickey D's. Almost no bench. Yes, they still lost in the end, but my god those guys put up a hell of a fight, every time out!"
Here, here. Self's best coaching job ever.
Again, I HAVE NOT commented on the risk of European players versus American players at large, so stop bringing this straw man argument.
I simply compared two players, Svi (a true NBA prospect) and Papapetreu (NOT an NBA prospect) and clearly and specifically pointed out the differences between them. IMHO, (that mean in "MY" humble opinion), Svi is not as big of a risk as another European player such as Papapetreu. We have many American players that have signed with KU and did not play a single official game (Doyle); how is that for a risk? How about Kanter, another European true NBA prospect? He did not bolt for Europe even when he was told he could not play at UK; he stayed and now he is getting a NBA paycheck..
Now, if you really want to extend the concept based on the facts at hand...European players that "ARE TRUE" NBA prospects (such as Svi) are more likely TO STAY here and pursue the NBA (and the big paycheck) instead of going back to Europe and delaying the payoff. European players that "ARE NOT TRUE" NBA prospects (such as Papapetreu) are more likely TO GO BACK to the Euro Leagues, since that is their final destination anyway and makes no sense playing college for no pay when they can go back to Europe and get started with their careers.
You cannot lump all European players in one group since their level of skill will influence the outcome. Looking at all European players as a group is the equivalent of saying that a 5-star top 5 American High School player (say Wiggins) has the same chance of staying at KU for 4 years than an low or unranked player (say Mason); the answer is clearly no.
It is really that simple; I am not sure what part is tripping you.
@HighEliteMajor the avatar is Releford at Versailles during the team's European tour - photo from kusports.com. They came to Play in Paris and I was out of town!
@REHawk-That's pretty enormous odds Re. At 100 to one for 50 cents, you might be a... nothing personal...but here's your sign, chump...50 bucks is definitely worth a sitdown at the crap table, at least to me & my paltry lifestyle. So whatever the reasoning...Salute.