The only thing more annoying then Dick Vitale is when KU fans complain about announcers not being pro KU in every aspect. Bilas is the best in the business for not doing everything you're complaining about. It wasn't an "anomaly" of a game for him he was imply correct in what he was saying and you didn't like it.
I have the best fantasy football team and cutest dog on the planet.
agreed ParisHawk. I think Wayne will come on later in the season - I expect him to have a big big12. He is a kid who has done nothing but make the right choices for himself from a young age. Very mature beyond his years. I think we'll see him again next year assuming his big 12 isn't TOO big.
Well this just ruined my christmas. Jaybate I hope you're ready for a bukkake. They've been waiting.
I'm wondering if this is more of a wakeup call for Tharpe. Self keeps saying we need energy and passion and the older guys need to show the way. What we've lacked is energy and passion the past 3 games.
I don't think Mason will be starting for long. Hopefully Tharpe reacts positively.
I am all for keeping it civil. If we're going to do that let's stop ascribing genuine learning disabilities to MTV.
Also - and I'm saying this for the good of all your sanity. Stop being so hurt and using this site as a big "I told you so" to kusports.com. The self pity and loathing is one reason I can't check this site more often. Regardless of their reasons or motives, what's done is done, and if you want to use this site as your avenue to talk Jayhawk basketball then that's great and very much welcome. But if I can't call a stupid idea stupid and point out the GLARING weakness's in an argument what's the point? Is this just a big hug fest?
I agree with most of the things drgnslyr has said on this site but if I can't make a quip about his manifesto that referenced vomiting throughout the entire thing then I think your opinions are dumb as well. It seems to me - based on your argument - that if I simply hadn't put "there is no way to say this without sounding rude..." and simply said it then I would be fine.
Don't censor me. Thanks.
drgnslayr - that was absolute word vomit and pretty far off point. Yes, the way we ingest media has an effect on how the game is played and marketed but ascribing that to MTV is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing MTV had to do with what we're seeing today is by starting the trend to turn athletes into pop culture. Claiming MTV created fast paced entertainment that fostered ADHD and led to the current media process is not only insensitive but downright stupid.
Basketball is marketing to the masses. Everyone knows that. If you want to read a book instead of making outlandish assumptions try reading "Michael Jordan and the New Global Capitalism". It shows a fantastic correlation to world globalization and how Michael Jordan and Nike essentially fostered that. Corporations using sports as their medium and internet as their avenue started this marketing trend. It wasn't MTV - they simply showed their commercials on it.
We are part of the internet generation. Highlights were always around, they are simply accessible now. It's the natural progression of media and marketing that has us where we are. If anything this "highlight" phenomenon can be ascribed to USA Today or the idea (that was correct) that people don't want long, developing news articles - they want their news quickly. USA Today turned to CNN which Turned to CNNonline which turned to Twitter.
Lastly - and this is the most important part. ESPN WAS FOUNDED IN 1979 AND WAS AN ENTIRE NETWORK DEDICATED TO SPORTS. IT WAS GOING TO LIVE OR DIE BY MARKETING HIGHLIGHTS. THEY LITERALLY HAD A DAILY SHOW CALLED SPORTSCENTER. There is no way to say this without sounding rude but, if you are going to talk highlights and marketing, sports icons and money, and NOT mention ESPN and its revolutionary effect on sports then I simply cannot listen to a word you have to say on the subject.
There is my word vomit.
Today is slow Jayhawk news -
http://www.people.com/people/package/gallery/0,,20315920_20635373_21207339,00.html#21207346 ↗ ↗
Sexiest Alaskan alive, GQ cover boy, I went to school there... I'd say KU is doing pretty well for themselves in the looks department.
Jesse -
I was at the Duke game sitting behind the KU bench and noticed multiple times Self shouting at the bench to get up, get excited, and get involved. For the majority of the game the body language wasn't good. I made note of it and have been watching the body language of some of our guys who are 7-12 off the bench and haven't been impressed. are you worried the amount of talent on this team and subsequent lack of playing time for some will lead to a negative attitude or am I just being paranoid?
Iowa State is the worst. They have decades long history of bringing in absolute bottom of the barrel individuals from Floyd, to Morgan, and now Hoiberg. Iowa State fans won't even argue that the majority of their players have "questionable" character at best. It's amazing to me that when Morgan left Hoiberg was seen as someone who would "clean up" the program but he has taken the opposite approach. Giving guys who have a lot of talent and significant character flaws that have been kicked off their teams a second chance. I'm not saying people don't deserve one - but when the majority of your team is full of them then you're giving the impression to "good kids" like Ejim that it's okay to act like such an idiot.
Iowa State is, and has been, for as long as I can remember a "win at all costs" program. The only difference between them and say a Florida State or USC is that they don't actually win.
I 100% agree with you guys. I actually think at the end of the day Jo could be the best pick in this draft. I truly feel his ceiling is higher then anyone else's. A 7" with his feet, touch, vision, hands, and brain? Truly has the chance to be the next Hakeem. The problem is in this draft though (and this is as unique of situation I can remember) is there are NBA ready all stars sitting in college. There are NBA ready talents on the level of Durant, Carmelo, and Rose (i never compare anyone to LeBron because he's once in a lifetime). Joel COULD be a future hall of famer. He also COULD be a complete bust. You know you're going to get an intregral piece in the top 3 (I'd argue 5 I love Smart and Exum) and that is just too tempting to risk on Embiid. That being said, next year's class (if everyone leaves) just simply isn't as good. Okafor is the #1 prospect who at worst will be Andrew Bogut and at best will be a perennial All Star. He's not athletic/freakish enough to be on the Shaq, Ewing, Olijawon level. But Embiid is.
This year is full of all stars. Next year is full of pretty damn good players that might make a few all star teams. If Embiid stays and everyone else goes then he simply will have the highest ceiling in that draft. If he has a poor year his ceiling is enough to gurantees him a top 7 draft pick. If he improves from this year (regardless of how it ends up) I think he'll be the number one pick.
Number 7 picks with potential don't get shoe contracts. No. 1 picks do. Usually I'd say go, take the money, as I will this year to Wiggins and Selden (if he's in the lottery) but not for Jo. I think he stands to lose out on millions and millions in his career if he does.
And to answer the "how much does a person need" question. When you have a limited shelf life and your earning potential is in such a small window, coupled with the lifestyle your salary affords, the answer is a whole damn lot. These guys, if lucky, retire at 35 and live off their earnings the rest of their life. It takes a lot to upkeep your 4 houses :)
Is this weird? I actually think Embiid playing well INCREASES the chances he stays at KU.
Hear me out - his hook and jumper are soft and beautiful. His footwork is like nothing I've ever seen. He runs the court with ease on the fast break. He is the most rapidly improving player I've ever even heard of. This guy is a high draft NBA lock this year, next year, or 4 years from now - no question.
I've noticed a few things though that really caught my eye - there were multiple rebounds and slams where he quite simply out "heighted" people. Wiggins will get 6-8 points a game by out "athleting" people in the same way Joel dominated last night. When he gets to the NBA those baskets, rebounds, and blocks won't be there. His game is a lot like Anthony Davis in the sense that when his game comes to maturation he won't be the best at anything but be darn good at a whole bunch of things. He will be a huge asset to Kansas this year simply because he's an athletic 7 footer who gets good position and has a knack for finding the ball - not because he's technically gifted enough to take a game over. But he's close.
What I'm trying to get at is this - Embiied would be pushed around in the NBA this year, next year, and two years from now. He's long but he's not thick. With his intelligence and willingness to learn he will reach maturity much sooner then anyone expects but, if he leaves this year, he will still be learning next year as well. He'd probably play, he'd deffinitely get paid, but he'd be a few years away from becoming a fast Roy Hibbert. I think the top 3 are pretty locked in. Tweeners and potential are the surest way to get a GM fired and with the three can't miss freshman coming out this year you'll be darned to find a GM willing to pass on any of them. Then there's Exum out of Australia and we all know how potent Marcus Smart can be. So, let's say Jo leaves this year and is the 5th pick. Great for him, he'll make a ton of money. But now let's say he stays - Okafor is the #1 recruit in the class and Jo's potential is phenominally higher than his. NBA loves potential and Jo is a quick learner - give him a few years and he'll match Okafor's offense but Okafor can never match Jo's athleticism. I think there is a very real shot that Embiid is the #1 pick NEXT year. In fact, if he stays, I would be surprised if he wasn't.
So there-in-lies the reason I think he may stay. Regardless if he stays 1 or 2 years he's probably 3/4 years away from 20 and 10 on the NBA level. his first 2/3 years will be a growing process in the NBA. If he leaves after this year and say he's the 5th overall pick he'll make 2.9, 3.0, and 3.2 million respectively. The team option will be a fourth year at around 4 million and then his rookie contract will be up. If he doesn't produce at a high level until his 3rd year maybe they don't pick him up year 4. Maybe they offer him a lower qualifying offer and, when he blows up year 4, he's already signed for 3/5 years. BUT, if he stays, and goes number 1 overall, he stands to make roughly 4.8 million MORE combined over his first 3 years (2nd 3.3 mil 3rd 2.1 mil). Furthermore - considering his maturation is further away, he'll be coming into his prime years 2 (if lucky) and 3 which is a much better situation to be in when renegotiating your next contract. The NBA is all about your 2nd contract - that's where the real money is.
I've thought this way for a while and I have people who agree and disagree with me. It's hard to tell a kid to leave millions on the table but if you look at it from the perspective of, if he leaves, he may be leaving millions on the table, it might shed a bit of light for him. It's a rare situation that he's in having - so much raw talent and being in such a talent laden class. I don't think I can recall a situation like this before but it just seems like it may be best for Jo financially to stay next year in the long run. I'm not considering the whole mental, physical, free school, great school bs into this decision because the NCAA right now, like it or not, is all about getting to the pros and getting paid. That's fine by me. Jo will be a pro - I think if he stays he'll be the wealthiest rookie in 2014.
I see every basketball player as an entrepreneur. They have a singularly focused goal from an early age - become the best they can be at what they do and make the most money possible. They make life changing decisions at a young age, develop a brand, and position themselves to meet the goals they set for themselves.
The NBA going to a one year out of high school rule had nothing to do with protecting players and insuring their emotional and physical maturation - it was purely a direct effort to generate more hype and make teams more money. It was a nod to the NCAA and its popularity. It was a realization, in my opinion, that players like Carmelo Anthony, can create a brand and name for themselves in one year of college and help transform a franchise. I know multiple people who were Syracuse fans who, the second he was drafted, became huge Nuggets fans. You look at the impact Carmelo made as compared to a guy like Kobe. If Kobe had gone to college he would have been a household name. But it took a few years before Kobe became a superstar (and it wasn't because of play).
The NBA is self serving. They see the NCAA as the greatest minor league system in the world. It is purely used to develop players and gain exposure to create hype for previously unknown guys. I mean, look at KUsports. Every day we have an NBA update for a bunch of guys that no one else in the league besides KU grads care about. What great exposure!
Let's not forget as well that the NBA tried to ruin the NCAA with the d-league. Their reaction to players coming out of high school that weren't quite ready for the league was to create their own minor league system to have these kids grow. They actively pushed for teams to draft high schoolers and put them in their developmental league. They realized the d-league didn't provide 1/10th the hype of the NCAA and magically - the one and done rule appears!
The OAD is a self serving NBA rule and it is best for these kids to position themselves in large programs, create national exposure, and prepare their brand for the NBA. I don't think they should have to take this step if they don't want to (although it has made people like Carmelo millions more so it's not always a bad choice) and I definitely don't feel they should have to stay more than one year for maturation's sake. The NFL takes red flags all the time - even after 3 years. It's up to the teams to take the risk.
I subscribe to the Jay Bilas model - Players can be drafted at 18. They choose their college regardless and if an NBA decides to they can either take them at the beginning of the season (say a wiggins, randle, parker) or they can keep them in college for up to 4 years as long as they pay him. They cannot pull a player out mid year and have to make the decision at the end of the season what they're going to do with the player. There are kinks to work out but let's just pay these kids already.
Dylans - if your children are deciding on what school to go to or, as parents, you are persuading your child's choice based on not being able to see 4 non conference regular season basketball games then either your child is dumb and not a fan or you are a bad parent. I can also say, as a non in-state graduate, that by NO MEANS does living in Kansas mean you are more likely to give the school money. I, personally, would say it is probably less - as a KU grad making a salary in a bigger city is much more likely to have disposable income then someone making a salary in a rural setting. I understand this is not always the case - but by-in-large it is. And, lastly, your argument that these are the fans that are more likely to go to the game... uh... if they can't see the game on tv aren't they MORE likely to go to the game? If jumping on frontrow.eu is too difficult and it's easier to complain and become a k-state fan then good riddence.
This isn't really directed at you dylans, either. More to all the fanbase I've heard saying the same thing. There are more KU fans outside Kansas than in and the money the University can make on this is astronomical which will be good for everyone in Kansas. Not to mention we now have every KU game televised in Canada due to this deal. Which, if you are forgetting, is the country that will probably have 2 consecutive #1 picks. Raptors fans are absolutely RABID fans and, as someone who follows the NBA closely, they have been looking for a college team to cheer for. This contract will pay off exponentially. Thank goodness Zenger had the foresight and tough skin to pull the trigger.
I don't understand your reasoning. "The problem with the OAD phenomenon is it gives those very players a false sense of how good they really are." - College basketball is supremely different today then it was back then. These kids are traveling all over the country playing each other at an early age. Their level of competition in the summer aau circuit is so much better, even as compared to 5 years ago. There is such a focus on developing kids at a young age because it is making people money. AAU coaches get paid entirely too much, prep schools get national attention, Nike and McDonalds are able to run the hype machine and make even more money themselves. It's a different monster. The OAD phenominon doesn't give them a false sense of how good they really are, everything leading up to it lets them know how good they really are. Wiggins wasn't even going to be a part of this class until he dominated Randel and realized he was ready.
I personally feel basketball needs to go back to the way it was before the OAD was forced on kids. I would say most, if not all, of these top recruits view their future profession as being a professional basketball player. They don't need to go to college the same way Zuckerberg or Jobs didn't. There are some very special and talented players out there who are missing out on a year of making millions of dollars and their window for making that kind of money is very small. I also don't feel you can force a player to have to stay for an extended period of time. Should Carmelo have had to stay after his freshman year at Syracuse? No. Was his decision to go for a year to Syracuse rather than directly to the NBA the right one? absolutely, yes. Kids have a decision to make at a young age - go and take the money now or, if not comfortable/totally ready, develop in college to see where you stand.
My apologies if this got a bit rant-ish. I just think it's totally backwards and can't imagine how angry I'd be if I had a limited shelf-life and was good enough at something that people wanted to pay me millions of dollars but someone told me I couldn't join because...?
I don't think there's any chance Lucas transfers. He was an unrated 3 star recruit who came to Kansas after his father and Bill Self had countless conversations about how he was going to develop Landen. While I'm sure he would very much like to get PT he came into the program knowing that it was going to be a process into his development. He has all the tools to be great but spent the majority of his life overseas not playing competitive basketball. I think he'll have a career similar to Releford's and I think the fact that he spent a year red shirting with Travis on the team shows him that, if Bill says to wait his time, his time will come.
The kid is a hard worker who chose to come to Kansas to be developed into the player his body will allow him to be. Could he transfer next year to a school like Cal or Stanford and play the following year? probably quite easily. But I think the reality of it is that he knows his best chance to get to the next level will be to stick it out with Self and bide his time. He may not see much PT next year but he would see 0 if he transferred.
You can't teach Lucas' body. He chose KU to develop him into a pro. He can transfer to a ho hum school and get all the playing time he wants but if that is what he was worried about he wouldn't have signed with us in the first place.
Agreed dubD. I am really okay with Self leaving as long as it is to either OK ST. say... 15 years from now? :) Or a Solid NBA franchise. If he were to leave to take over a team like the Bobcats I'd be furious, but, if he decides to depart to a solid franchise like the Spurs (which are the class of the bunch) I could only cry a bit and say farewell. R.C. Buford is a close friend of Self's and Chase is obviously a grad and current grad assistant. If he were to inherit a front office and team like the Spurs I have no doubt Self would be the 2nd coach to win both an NCAA and NBA title - nice that they'd both be Jayhawks!
As Self has said - he is at a Cadillac program. He's not going to leave for anything less then his alma matter or a solid NBA franchise. But, not trying to get too far off topic, if we have him the next 5 years I have no doubt we'll be hoisting at least 1 more banner.
Rock Chalk
Hey - thanks man! I give all the credit to my dog who is literally the cutest puppy in the world.
For the amount of Final Fours and and Championship games KU has been a part of the actual number of Championships is somewhat disproportional and infuriating. I'm not directing this at Self as much as it is at Roy :) but I certainly expect over the next 5 years to bring in at least 1 more championship and multiple final four appearances. We're spoiled.
That being said - I also am of the thinking that when Popovich leaves the Spurs, Self is their next head coach. The only hope we have of keeping him in my humble and always correct opinion is that Pop leaves within the next 2 years before Tyler graduates. Hope it never happens but the situation would be too perfect for Self for me to be angry that he did it.
I was hoping for Alexander all along and couldn't be happier it ended up this way. Our backcourt is already stacked and Tyus not starting would simply serve as a distraction. With the speed and athleticism at every position a guy like Okafor would slow down one of the biggest advantages we have.
I feel like, regardless of departures, Alexander is the best fit and will start immediately - you cannot keep him off the floor. If Embiid leaves he can instantly be slotted in the 5. If he stays (and this would be the case if we could somehow get Turner) we have the ability to slot Alexander at his natural position of PF. This is assuming Perry stays as well - Perry's biggest assets are his IQ and footwork which would transition nicely to the small forward position. SF is the only position Perry will be playing in the NBA so it makes sense for him to develop those techniques at KU. That leaves us with either Selden (if he stays) at the two or plug in AWIII if he leaves and Naadir at point. We've got Traylor, Lucas, Mickelson as front court reserves and Mason, Frankamp, Greene, and Oubre to spell our back court.
I think the reality of KU's recent recruiting (and hopefully future) is that we are attracting NBA ready one-and-done talent. Does that mean they'll all bolt? Hopefully not. But it is no secret that Kansas players haven't been as successful in the Pros as other programs. This is because, in large part, Self is a system coach who puts his best 5 on the floor. Take the Morris Twins, for example, who struggled their first few years learning the position and, now comfortable in their role, are flourishing. Same with T-Rob.
If we are going to start brining in top 10 guys on a consistent basis then 1. they will start and 2. We will try to start them at their NBA/natural position because that is where they provide us with the biggest advantage. There will be times we mix and match like we did against Duke when other teams are going to 3 guard sets but can you imagine the size, length, strength, and speed of a lineup of 1. Tharpe 2. Selden (WhiteIII) 3. Ellis 4. Alexander 5. Embiid (Turner)?
Now, assuming Embiid leaves and Turner goes elsewhere we would simply shift to a smaller lineup that gets the players a bit out of their NBA position but fits Self's best five strategy. Either way Alexander ensures that we are set to be a dominant team next year and we won't be forcing a player like embiid to enter the draft so a player like okafor can take his position. That's not Self, that's not Kansas - thank god we aren't Kentucky.
Really excited for this season and years to come. We've got something rolling right now!