@KirkIsMyHinrich I see NO problem with them at all or a log jam. It's a coach's dream. Alexander is capable of playing the 4 or 5. This would give Ellis some great breaks. Then, Alexander can play the 5 too. I don't see Turner starting right away due to his size. Unless he improves like Embiid, he will need some Hudy-izing in the off season. Alexander will likey be your starter at the 5. Turner can provide Alexander with some breaks.
I want Turner really bad in Lawrence, but wouldn't be too broken if he played for LB at SMU. However, rumor has it LB may be retiring after this year. We'll be fine with Alexander, Lucas, and Mickelson at the 5. They could start for most other programs in the nation. JaTray will be a great experienced backup for Ellis at the 4 too. I guarantee you there's nothing at OSU after this year. Smart, Brown, and even mental case Nash will all three be gone. Ford's wheels are falling off his trike after this year. I wouldn't go to OSU because there's nothing there, unless of course they return. The only way Turner goes to OSU is if Smart stays another year, which is insane. Ford has nothing after this year.
@approxinfinity Don't look now but they just lost Oklahoma State backup point guard Stevie Clark reportedly was arrested for possession of marijuana on Wednesday morning.
The wheels on Travis' tricycle are a little shaky right now. He has Smart and Brown to tighten them up a bit. It will be interesting to see how Ford addresses this little in house issue. Ford will have a Smart Brown year. His game plan will be to let Smart and Brown run the team. If plan S and B fail, he'll go to Forte...and if that doesn't work, well, there's always a temper tantrum on the court. I've said it before and will say it again, Ford's biggest problem is BIGs. He never has an inside game. Since he's been at OSU, Ford cannot recruit a big to save his life. You can't live by Smart Brown alone.
I reviewed and thought about each of HEM's points. I tried to deconstruct them all. I had a hard time. If you address jaybate's pg issue and Kirk's defensive concerns, you do have some challenges. However, HEM is looking to 2014 and I'd simply refer each challenge to #s 6,7,8...respectively. I want to get totally wrapped up in #9, but I do have to stay objective too. But any further arguments please read #6,7, and 8.
I see a trend every year with all teams. Here is my theory in a nutshell: teams that peak early, typically fail in the end to some degree. The teams that are "late bloomers" (ie. KU) tend to peak at the right time. It doesn't guarantee the results we all want, but I do like the possibility of another NC.
@wrwlumpy Great news for Embiid...This means that he is guaranteed top 5 draft pick. Worse case he is drafted 2-5, which is incredible when you consider his bball journey. Perry Ellis #26 to Miami? I expect that to improve as the season progresses. Tarik Black #52 to Dallas? Not too bad at all.
@drgnslayr Yes, KU was an early leader. I would like to think we still are the leader. I've said over and again that he is likely waiting to see what Embiid will do. It appears Embiid is drafted at this point.
Many think Alexander's commitment may cause Turner to pause. I see no reason why both can't play. Ellis is the ace in the hole at 4. Alexander had to know that Ellis would be around and Embiid was a question mark. Now, it appears the cards are falling ever so nicely for each recruit. I could see Ellis and Alexander playing some significant 4 time. I could also see Alexander and Turner playing some 5 too. I just don't think Lucas and Mickelson are ready to carry this team at the 5. They are going to get some mins at the 5, but not anything significant. I could see Lucas playing more his junior and senior year. I could see Mickelson backing Lucas too after playing with Embiid, Alexander, Traylor, and possibly Turner. Turner's story reminds me a little of Ellis. Turner might be a OAD or he could be at least a 2 yr project. Could you imagine Ellis and Turner together for 2-3 years? This is assuming that Embiid is gone after this year and Alexander is gone after next. There's plenty of rotation for the bigs.
I just don't think Self wants to have another repeat of the Twins leaving without a big or two playing a key role in the rotation. Alexander's build alone makes him a auto draft pick. Turner would be really talented, but needs some Hudyizing.
Hudy may be a big factor with Turner. It was interesting to read how weight training is a big part of his personal training from Slim. He needs a good coach to take him to the next level. Self and Hudy may be Turner's ticket. One of Turner's early pieces was KU's record with bigs in the league.
A great story and love at about the 6:50 mark, he mentions Kansas twice...He seems like a really good kid.
I'm open to Lyle. However you argue, some are saying pt or attitude problems, but Black came in with some issues. He's doing really well under Self. Sometimes, these kids need the right coach. We all know Self is a player's coach.
I was the biggest opponent of Tharpe, but he is turning the corner. I also think Mason will learn a ton this year. I'm just not sure if there's enough paper to ink both Lyle and Turner. Yes, I still believe we need a high end big like Embiid. Embiid is good as gone. I said Self would play more Embiid earlier than expected. Black is ok, Lucas is good, but they are not Embiid type quality. Turner is Embiid quality and maybe with a few more skills. We need Turner in the Phog, we want Turner in the Phog, and hopefully we get Turner in the Phog.
I will DIE if he goes to OSU and we lose Embiid. I just don't think Lucas or Mickleson will lead the bigs.
So, my response to this post is Turner over Lyle. I'll take my chances with Tharpe as a senior and Mason as a soph. In fact, I might even take my chances with Mason his junior and senior seasons.
It's early for Selden. Embiid is shining really bright right now. He's only getting bettter. Selden will definitely make it about mid way through the conference. By conference tourney, Selden will be talked about with Wiggins and Embiid as lottery picks.
I grew up in Wichita and around WSU. I grew up attending basketball and baseball camps. However, I'm mixed about playing WSU. Ever since The Battle of New Orleans, there have been a lot of strange angst that continues to this day between KU and WSU. Just typing that brings back memories. My dental hygenist here in OKC is a WSU grad and she was a cheerleader. I've gotten my ear full of how KU is "scared to play WSU." I just let her talk. She especially rubbed in this last years F4. I respect WSU and hope one day this will work out either way.
I don't care either way at this point. I just hope that whatever happens, it will be completely justified and the game is played for the right reasons. I want it to benefit both programs. I do have some reservations and WSU people need to stop their idle talk about something they obviously are pushing for the wrong reasons. Let's give this some time. It will happen in due time.
@MoonwalkMafia Your last sentence pretty much summarizes the polls. Yeah it's pretty funny seeing OSU at their rank having played...nobody. It's Smart mania. The media loves him and are rewarding OSU for Smart. OSU beats a non-ranked team and they climb by default of top teams losing, ie. KU.
Every year in the B12, critics, haters, and the like are dying to see KU get knocked off as conference champs. They keep promoting a B12 team to beat KU. Last year it was OSU. Two year ago, it was Baylor, and this year it's OSU again. I'd even throw ISU in the mix too. It's about the media hype.
UF beats Memphis (if they show up like they did against KU) and really think CU "can" beat OSU (if they play like they did against KU). UNC beats UT. Mich St beats UT too. Mack Brown is gone and my guess is UT is cleaning house. Barnes may be next.
You watch UF will lose to Memphis and CU will lose to OSU. It's really funny how teams show up to play KU and then tank against other teams. It's really early in the season. These same teams that are playing "well" will meet reality. The season is a marathon.
What do you make of Kansas losing three of their last four games?
25%
Fluke
75%
Bad sign of things to come
Time for Self to prove a poll wrong. Looks like KU is written off as the first few loses being a "Bad sign of things to come" per ESPN wording.
slayr- I don't know what happened in or before that game. But they all looked pitiful to say the least. Selden had a "rough" game. Ellis "struggled." Mason was "overwhelmed," "outmatched," and Tharpe does not play like a junior pg. I don't get it. Tharpe is a junior and played with some of KU's best for the last two years and comes into this season playing passively, and with little to no confidence. I just don't think Tharpe wants it. Selden and Mason aren't quite prepared. But I think Self hit the nail on the head when he said it was "confidence." The only way to give confidence is let them play through. He's still yanking at the smallest mistake. I'm baffled at why Self doesn't let them play through their mistakes. He used to keep Sherron on the court simply to make a statement when Sherron made mistakes. He wanted to let Sherron work through humiliation after making bone headed mistakes. It worked too. Now Self just pulls players at the slightest mistake.
It's interesting what he's doing with Greene. If Tharpe, Mason, or Selden fail, why not give Greene a shot at pg? Greene is much better than what we've seen. He can handle the ball and is smart. He made that one bobble at the end of the Florida game, but that wasn't the game losing play. Greene could be a big pg, he's got the skills. He needs reps and confidence and he could be huge at the pg. Oh and btw, Greene will talk and can be vocal on the court. He brings energy too.
slayr- I really thought when Tharpe arrived, he came in with skills. I really thought his pg skills were complimentary to the team. He came in with one of the best abilities to read screens. But, he's just a bit too quiet when it counts. He doesn't seem to have the qualities you wrote about.
Mason could take this team over if he steps up and matures. I just think his freshman mentality is limiting him. He thinks his youth prevents him from being "The" leader. It's time for Tharpe to put up or shut up and if he shuts up, then Mason needs to take control and put away his underoos, and be the leader this team so desparately needs. He thrives on these moments of criticism and says he's faced adversity his entire bball career. Well, he's being critiqued again. It's time to step and respectfully take the reigns from Tharpe, if he doesn't want the responsibility.
I don't see Tharpe being a leader because he's not vocal and doesn't have a positive attitude. He falls under the quiet EJ type player mentality. I think he's getting a bit mental with Self right now. I don't think Tharpe understands how important his role is to the team right now.
Mason is young, but he displays all the qualities of a pg. Mason is vocal, tough, skilled, and love his aggressive attitude on the floor. Tharpe should have the experience by now, but Mason should be a solid floor leader by conference. I'm just not sure if Tharpe will turn the corner.
Fantoo- I'm sure Self will work out the kinks, but right now they are totally out of sync. I'd like to see a bit of progress, not digress. Two games in a row is a bit out of character for Bill Self teams.
Great piece and interesting question.
Beat Florida. This would be a good win on the road. I think we have a great chance. I'd like Florida healthy though.
Oh no, the sky is falling...KU dropped from top 10. This will change soon.
This is old news. It happens in high school. The refs are flexing against a big recruit. They are big time refs that want their day. Way to go refs, that'll show those big recruits whose boss at the end of the day. I love Alex's attitude and his hard nosed bball play. We are too soft right now and he will be a welcomed sight next season.
Rock Chalk Big Fella
HEM- It is apparently the D of choice against KU. It appears to work too. I'll say it over and over, like a broken record, defenses are going to sag, sag, and sag everytime. Even if we hit a few, we'll still have to improve our shooting. Self better get a shooter ready, because KU is officially exposed. Ask Jim Boeheim at Syracuse how to beat Bill Self. Ask Tad Boyle at CU, who just beat KU. Boyle even said he went against his own coaching philosophy with the zone. It paid off with a lucky shot, KU loses. Also, get behind and KU becomes relaxed. You step up your intensity and bring th egame within 2-4 points after having a 20+ pt lead. Basically just stand in the lane, hell, KU can't hit the ocean in a helicopeter, hovered over the middle of it.
I don't know what bball psycho babble Self is using, but it's not working. The players aren't responding too well. Players have a hard enough time learning the crazy system, then Self plays mind games with players, thinking he will "break" them into Bill Self coached players. Just run plays, defenses, use players to their strengths, and play. The pg situation is goofy. Pick a pg and stick with him. The 3pt shooter issue is stupid. Pick a shooter and let them get into a rhythm, like BMac. Stop jacking so much with the line-up. What's up with Greene? White and Tharpe are my biggest disappointments so far. Tharpe is becoming more and more EJ 2.0. What is going on? I'm not talking so much about Nova and CU either. KU deserved to lose and their play proved it.
Hem- Nothing against Black, other than the obvious, but Lucas seems to be a nice backup to Embiid. However, it depends when Embiid committed versus Black. Didn't Embiid commit before Black? If so, not sure why Self was so insistent on getting Black or even why he's so set on him starting.
Lucas would've been a great backup to Embiid. But, Self didn't know exactly if Embiid would develop as he is either. I think the Twins leaving as they did really caused Self to pause and vow to never leave a big man on the table, especially an experienced big man at D1 play. I think Self's montra is "you can't have enough bigs." Unlike Travis Ford in Stillwater, "i can't get a big."
I read how shooting was a problem in Atlantis. The only problem was the other teams didn't really seem to have the same shooting problems. I haven't looked at the stats, but I'd say KU may have the worst 3pt shooting stat of that tourney. I could be wrong. Whatever the problem was, every shooter on the team fell victim to the mental shooting block. I don't think it was the ballroom. I just think it was a lousy showing all around. I just hope the guys learned to overcome their personal mental block to have a better season.
Self keeps discussing the schedule of this tourney. Again, why didn't the other teams have the same problem with the schedule? Why didn't the schedule bother the other teams' energy? It just appears what could go wrong, went wrong for KU, especially the Nova game.
I don't think they played bball in Hope. Cal should've dropped Barry's name. At least he plays bball and makes his national picks in March with Katz. But not too many people are name dropping Barry's name these days. Barry's not a very popular guy right now.
I'm pretty sick of the polls this early in the season. MSU will lose soon enough. Zona will definitely drop a few too. I don't see a clear favorite right now. It's too early.
Our ranking is about right at #6? We'll move up to #4 soon and hopefully can stay there most of the season. We'll be up and down between 8-4 over the next few weeks through January and hopefully the guys will find their identity and when they do, I pity the teams they play when they break out of this funky talent slump.
I see Wigs busting out at some point for 30+. I wonder when he'll hear, "Overrated...Overrated..."? I'm thinking it's going to be in Stillwater as the Pokes support Smart's comments.
Self is definitely showcasing Embiid. He is handing Embiid over to the NBA scouts. This is for Turner. Self knows he has a shot at Turner and if Turner is committing, Embiid will have to go pro. Not a bad move on Self's part. But, we win either way. If Embiid goes, we may get Turner, and if Embiid stays, it's a win. In fact as someone suggested Embiid staying might be an even bigger win the second time around.
And, there is always the little lose lose too. Embiid goes pro and Turner commits elsewhere, yikes.
I totally agree Blown.
Would someone please respond to Tharpe's hoisting up treys and I might add Mason too. But Tharpe may be my biggest challenge right now. The guy is a junior pg and he hits a few and misses even more often than not. I just don't think we can afford for someone to huck up some unnecessary treys. Our shooting is sorely lacking and I don't understand the mental block. I know it's there, but Self is an inside first, high post second, rim attack and kick last. I'd like to see about 2-3 passes or rim attack before someone hucks a trey. Opponents are beginnning to sag on defense and daring KU to beat them oustide, AGAIN.
Would a pure shooter please rise? Greene, White, or Frankamp?
I want someone to catch fire and for Self to keep adding fuel to that fire. I don't want that shooter yanked and for that shooter to lose his rhythm. But, Self will do what he wants. I get the funny impression that Self is so inundated with possibilities that he really doesn't know what he wants right now.
HEM- I read your initial post and have always thought that if Greene was given some pt, a bit more confidence, and some chances, he would be the best go to shooter. I think he's the total package. Self will definitely need to adjust soon. He can't do it soon enough. People have definitely gone to sleep on KU after the horrible showing in Atlantis, which is good. Selden, Wigs, Ellis, Tharpe, and Embiid need to take notice. They have been put on notice by the bball analysts. This team has got to develop a killer instinct, because they have much to prove right now. But, play KU bball, nothing else.
Coach Self, get your rotation set and let your starters settle into their roles. Let your bench settle into their roles and create some consistency, please.
Lulu- I remember that very well. I also loved how Mario got Wright's attention on the court by saying to Wright on the sideline, "watch this..." Remember what happened next? I believe Rio sent a lob to Shady for a goal rattling dunk.
[link text](
I remember this...
konkey- I would tend to agree that it should come down to Ohio St and KU. I really believe as do most of us, that Turner is waiting on Embiid. I'm totally convinced that we'll see a lot of Embiid earlier than we all anticipated. I for one was thinking second half of the season, but with Black being up and down with fouls, Embiid will definitely get more reps. I think Turner is playing his options really smart. I really like how he has changed his approach with programs. I think he tipped his hat a bit early toward KU. I do believe Alex has given him a brief pause. But, he just wants to have his top choices ready to go. I think it's KU, Ohio St, and a distant, but desperate third Okie St.
You can't read a lot into anything. I did read this from Nov 18.
http://zagsblog.com/recruiting/myles-turner-to-visit-oklahoma-state-next-father-says-okafor-turner-could-be-formidable-combo-at-duke/ ↗ ↗
I wouldn't blame any reader if you stopped after this first sentence. I warn you this is a long thought worth about 2 cents.
I've been following and reading anything Myles Turner. He's committing in the Spring, however, I'm finding a lot of banter about his recruiting. I find it all funny and sometimes ridiculous. The main stream bball recruiting analysts have him leaning toward KU.
I think it's a bit laughable, although possible, that he would pick Okie St. Travis Ford is by far one of the worse Xs and Os coach. I don't see him developing much in Stillwater. He doesn't or hasn't developed a top/quality big man at all during his time at OSU. He gets a good guard or two and like Smart, he simply let's them play their game. I saw highlights of their last game and Smart just went ape crap (with KD in attendance), which we ALL know is possible. Love Smart's self deprecating attitude about being a "team" and it's "not about me..." Please it's all about YOU Marcus Smart! Who else is leading this team? Without YOU, this Okie St team is lost.
My question to bball fans and OSU fans is simple: Can the Pokes win without a true big? Can Ford develop a true big to be what he needs in his lineup? Lastly, like Barnes, can little Ford make it through the Big Dance with a big in the lineup? This is a tall order that is above and beyond Ford. I just don't think he's got the coaching ability to lead a NC team with his coaching experience. Most of his players have bailed him out many times in certain games. The players make him (Calipari-ish) type coaching.
So, if Myles wants to be developed as a big man, he must look to the program that is not only proven in the NCAA, but also a program that will develop him at the next level. Larry Brown can develop him, but SMU will likely not do much even with Mudiay. Also, rumor has it that Brown is retiring too? OSU will likely be losing Smart and Brown which is the heart of their team. People are actually promoting Forte (good player) and this kid from Douglas HS from OKC. I doubt they will provide a nucleus or run. So, unless Ford can convince Smart to stick around another year with Turner (unlikey), I doubt OSU has much chance.
There's a KU fan typing guarantees of "Turner to KU, mark it down, you heard it here first," but I am optimistically hopeful. Many are trying to discourage Turner away from KU with Embiid and Alexander.
What's your guess on Turner's choice at this point? Oh and there is a small contingent that Turner may or possibly choose dook with Okafor too. Funny, because those same dook commentators said that if Okafor picked KU, Turner would pass on KU because he wouldn't want to compete with Okafor. But now, Turner may be interested in playing with Okafor at dook (haha). Many of the dookie lovers are even saying that Okafor could play the 4 and Turner the 5.
Have you all noticed how Self is marketing Embiid more and more? Hmm...Self is quite the marketer of his players. This is to get Embiid some reps, exposure, and much needed improvement. All at the same time showing Turner a few things too. Embiid looked good against Iona, but it was Iona. The best thing Self can do is market Embiid in each game and it's a win, win, and win. Embiid get's his, KU gets theirs, and Self just may get Turner in the process. We shall see and TBA.
I'm not real sure about the other OSU and UK at this point.
dylans- reposted what?
HEM- I think it's interesting the three are announcing at about the same time today.
Believe me, if I had a better pic, I'd be happy to submit it. I would've shot a couple and used the better of the 2-3. I guess your response explains it all.
Please tell me this is not the best pic available for this headline.
Fan- I like Black's size and overall experience at the D1 level. He's here to buy time for JoJo...give it time and watch the transformation. Black came knowing that JoJo would eventually start for the right reasons. Black has resigned to that fact. I applaud Black's maturity and seniority. He has been great.
slayr- I really think JoJo will learn so much from this game. It was definitely a learning game for him. He did some fundamental things that shows he's going to develop nicely. The three had me shaking my head...but hey...why not?
As mud
Penny for your thoughts? If you're Okafor, and you're not, but if you were, what would your thoughts be after that game? I'm a big considering Dook and KU. Which team maximized or showcased their bigs the most? Umm...maybe I'm biased, but KU is a bigman showcase everygame. I loved how they featured KU's ability and skill to angle the ball on the blocks to the bigs. If I'm Okafor, and I'm not, I would definitely be thinking about which team values their inside game. Dook was all outside and dribble drive. Dook is not a bigman team. They had zero inside O except for Jefferson, and it was all garbage.
BTW- Ok's dad said yesterday that his 'son's mind was made up, and he knows where he's going.'
HEM- I like White too. I think he would give us some balance on both ends of the court. Experience will win this game. White has that experience.
Greene is the dream and love how he steps up to the shot. His confidence should get better with each game. I love his shooting mentality. I hope he matches it with his defensive intensity.
HEM- Let's talk game and slayr is right, it will all sort out in the end. I think KU wins one way or another on the recruiting saga.
Dook...I love Greene as a nightmare for them. It will be interesting to see who steps up on the stage.
Winners want the ball, who wants the ball for KU?
I know a few facts, not speculation. Alex likes Howard and KU. Ok and his dad love Self. Howard may even have some pull with Ok. Turner is simply KU's to lose if one or both of the others choose KU. And this recruiting thing is too much fun.
Funny how some of you are sure Alex comes to KU and others say Ok is coming to KU.
HEM- I think Embiid goes on potential alone. He's got the skills and the GM's love his height. He can hit the FTs too for a footer.
My pitiful take is that we have a great chance with all three: Alex, Ok, and Turner. I only hope Self learned from Tarc. I hope Self kept all three bigs open and that Turner was kept in the coaching loop. Howard has to be a huge help with Alex and Ok. Turner seems to be a KU lean regardless. Incidentally, funny that Turner hasn't committed either. I really think he's playing his recruiting really well with the other two bigs. These bigs know they will be an immediate impact for any program.
I do think we are reading too much into the Self's squad right now. Jaydoc and HEM are both conspiracy theorists with a valid point about Ellis and Embiid. Alex has the biggest decision. He wants to play, period. However, he will have to go where the program would likely miss the tourney. He gambles with the other two programs. However, he's almost guaranteed to be a draft pick at any program. But if he wants to dance, you go where they have a consistent history of dancing.
Ok is a great kid. I really respect his decision. BUT, I've always been a bit criticial of the 'buddy thing.' I really think he makes a good decision either way, but you need to think about your own development at the next level. KU gives him a proven big man coach in Self, and Hudy is going to get your body NBA ready, see Twins and TRob. I think Dook is soft when it comes to bigs. I posted Dooks last good big man and it was Shelden Williams. Carlos Boozer is doing well. But, Dook doesn't seem to max their bigs or maybe not too consistent. But it is Ok's decision to make, not ours.
Turner is waiting to see where these two go and I think he comes to KU regardless of Ellis or Embiid. Turner needs Hudy the most when compared to Alex and Ok.
I'm not worried. It would be nice to get one or both of these recruits, but in the end, it will work well. Self knows how to max his bigs. I think we walk away with one of the three at least. Texas would be the biggest failure for any recruit right now and Barnes' position isn't the most stable right now. He's one more season closer to the unemployment line. I think UT is fed up with him.