🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Where this goes from here... who can say.

Just how much is KU willing to pay athletes?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31679946/supreme-court-sides-former-players-dispute-ncaa-compensation ↗

This is a quote that should have the NCAA scrambling to implement NIL rules ASAP:

"All of the restaurants in a region cannot come together to cut cooks' wages on the theory that 'customers prefer' to eat food from low-paid cooks," Kavanaugh continued. "Law firms cannot conspire to cabin lawyers' salaries in the name of providing legal services out of a 'love of the law.' Hospitals cannot agree to cap nurses' income in order to create a 'purer' form of helping the sick. News organizations cannot join forces to curtail pay to reporters to preserve a 'tradition' of public-minded journalism. Movie studios cannot collude to slash benefits to camera crews to kindle a 'spirit of amateurism' in Hollywood. Price-fixing labor is price-fixing labor."

College sports can only work when the athletes value a scholarship. Schools started using Basketball and Football as advertising to attract more students. I have ZERO interest in watching minor league sports, and that is what this will now become.

@BigBad nothing is stopping you from rooting on your local NAIA or D3 school.

Did you really only watch because players weren’t legally getting paid?

I guess how does this change it for you from what it is right now?

@Kcmatt7 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

I guess how does this change it for you from what it is right now?

Basically, it's just icing on the cake.

It's already getting to the point where you don't watch kids develop. The turnover(outside of Lightfoot) makes following a team less fun. This upcoming season is already my least anticipated season since I can remember.
I'm not interested in watching schools have recruiting competitions(for nonpro players) using advertising companies showing how their players get more exposure on the local TV market. Then watch the recruiting prize walk out the door 9 months later.

@BigBad youre not wrong, but Im still intrigued even if its less enjoyable.

@BigBad

It's tough to be a real fan of D1 and an alumni these days.

I expect this to become a complete carnival. I'm considering entering my hat as a shoe designer, because those cats are going to get stinky rich!

Just how far will the enticements go? Big $$$ will obviously lead the way, but from what interests? I'm guessing Kansas should now go on a real recruiting trip... to solidify a hold on large corporate donors. Shoecos are only one revenue stream. Sportswear, energy drinks, media giants... maybe even Amazon. Marketing is about "following the crowds."

Why shouldn't this become a $$$ bonanza for universities? They are already bribed with Shoeco products.

Is it possible that D1 completely overshadows the NBA?

If there is no future definition of amateurism... might we see NBA dropouts returning to college?

I can't look at this thing without thumbing my nose at the NCAA. They dropped the ball. They should have been well out in front of this issue decades ago so it could have been developed gradually and making some sense. But they fought it, and for what reason? Power. And who will pay the ultimate cost? The fans...

Let the circus begin!

Question: Why should a college athlete be time-limited on eligibility? Can a restaurant do that to waiters?

Let's talk complete meltdown in college sports.

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

Question: Why should a college athlete be time-limited on eligibility? Can a restaurant do that to waiters?

Let's talk complete meltdown in college sports.

Even with NIL, student athletes still have to be in good academic standing to play. Like I can go sign a deal with my local car dealership to be in a commercial but still have to make degree progress to be competition eligible. Two entirely different issues there. I don’t think anyone has a problem with degree progress requirements and the eligibility clock. Just while you’re in school have the economic rights any other student has.

@FarmerJayhawk

I just wonder if this becomes a perpetual academic pursuit for some in order to play "semi-pro" D1.

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@FarmerJayhawk

I just wonder if this becomes a perpetual academic pursuit for some in order to play "semi-pro" D1.

Nah, I don’t think the institutions have any interest in perpetual students.

@approxinfinity wouldn’t earning an income make players more likely to stay?

My first thought is now you have to make the decision between staying in school and making money or leaving for the NBA and giving up two years of guaranteed income to go chase the NBA.

I think it would make borderline guys think twice about leaving.

@Kcmatt7 thats a great point. Guaranteed income plus excellent benefits.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/hidden-figures-college-students-may-be-paying-thousands-athletic-fees-n1145171 ↗

If they pay athletes they sure better get rid of ANY fee from ACTUAL students.

Also if they pay Basketball and Football players whose programs actually make money does Title IX then require the schools to pay a women swimmer an equal amount.

If I'm a low level D1 college sports go bye bye.

@approxinfinity Exactly. Free housing. Free food. Free school. $75k+ in salary. Free training with an elite staff. And still the potential to develop into a top tier draft pick.

I wonder if KU would have been willing to pony up and pay $500k for Dotson to stay and play this last season... My guess is absolutely. But maybe I'm wrong.

@drgnslayr Right? Who gets paid, and if so how much? How much do gymnasts get paid? What about cheerleaders or baseball players? I am not in support of the Court's decision. What, going to pay high schoolers next? What the ruling will cause due to opening the NCAA and or even universities up to lawsuits is complete chaos. It will sooner rather than later hurt not only the true student-athlete - and there are alot of them - but also and eventually the entire system while perhaps ending it altogether. What about physics students who are studying to help advance the world and universe through science? How much should they be paid while going to school? What about the guy or girl who dresses as the mascot on gamedays?

@Marco https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/physics-graduate-student-salary-SRCH_KO0,24.htm ↗

@approxinfinity while going to school?

@Marco those are salaried grad students, right?

@approxinfinity after they already got two degrees, yes. But they didn't get that cash by just showing up and studying after being recruited by the school - and brilliant students are recruited by universities.

@Marco The eventual goal seems to me that anyone could get paid as much as they can. If someone thinks a cheerleader is a valuable asset to the university, pay them accordingly. Doesn’t seem to me the goal is to guarantee money for every student athlete but instead to allow them to earn freely just like the rest of the student body.

The only way I see this negatively impacting college sports is that it could simply perpetuate the “rich get richer” idea as far as competition. Kansas and duke and Kentucky will all still be competitive because basketball makes enough money at those schools to be able to attract players with money. On the other hand I’m basketball, one player can make such a huge difference if schools with less marketable brands focused on one or two players they could still make a splash.

I do worry our football team is doomed.

@benshawks08 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Marco The eventual goal seems to me that anyone could get paid as much as they can. If someone thinks a cheerleader is a valuable asset to the university, pay them accordingly. Doesn’t seem to me the goal is to guarantee money for every student athlete but instead to allow them to earn freely just like the rest of the student body.

The only way I see this negatively impacting college sports is that it could simply perpetuate the “rich get richer” idea as far as competition. Kansas and duke and Kentucky will all still be competitive because basketball makes enough money at those schools to be able to attract players with money. On the other hand I’m basketball, one player can make such a huge difference if schools with less marketable brands focused on one or two players they could still make a splash.

I do worry our football team is doomed.

I respect your opinion. And you are correct in your assessment, our football team is burnt toast.

As with every change in sports over the past 50 years, this will be the end of civilization as we know it.

I'm really trying to think how this will change football at all, and I really don't see it. You still have to recruit well and build a good program. A lot harder to do that with 100 players than 13.

A basketball team can be bought, but a football team still has to be developed.

@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@drgnslayr Right? Who gets paid, and if so how much? How much do gymnasts get paid? What about cheerleaders or baseball players? I am not in support of the Court's decision. What, going to pay high schoolers next? What the ruling will cause due to opening the NCAA and or even universities up to lawsuits is complete chaos. It sooner rather than later hurting not only the true student-athlete - and there are alot of them - but also and eventually the entire system while perhaps ending it altogether. What about physics students who are studying to help advance the world and universe through science? How much should they be paid while going to school? What about the guy or girl who dresses as the mascot on gamedays?

Women student athletes have some of the highest earning potential once you factor in social media. Basketball, soccer, softball, and gymnastics all have a very strong following on Instagram, and student athletes will be able to cash in on that. 538 and OpenDorse did a cool analysis: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-money-could-student-athletes-make-as-social-media-influencers/ ↗ how many are household names? Not many! But Instagram is a very valuable medium for brands.

Yes, graduate students do make (awful) money. But not just for showing up. We're paid to teach courses and do research to earn our keep, and the actual dissertation work is mostly unpaid unless you can find independent grant funding.

@mayjay I am saying that is is a slippery slope, that's all.

@Kcmatt7 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

I'm really trying to think how this will change football at all, and I really don't see it. You still have to recruit well and build a good program. A lot harder to do that with 100 players than 13.

A basketball team can be bought, but a football team still has to be developed.

It will change everything, athletes only going to those schools that can pay the most. It comes down this, even high schools make money, look at Texas and Florida and California high school football - pay them too? If yes, then what about the everyday students? They are benefiting the schools and universities too, afterall.

The schools are not going to pay the athletes directly, at least not at this point.

The only thing that is happening is that a student athlete can now earn money from other means while maintaining their eligibility.

A few years ago, a University of Miami football player who was also a music producer was in a position to get a production credit, and the pay that comes with it, on a rap album for a song he helped produce. The NCAA said that he could not take the compensation without losing his eligibility. Point me to any other scholarship student that would lose their scholarship in that scenario?

Another football player ↗ from South Florida had a growing social media presence, but the NCAA told him that he either had to de-monetize his social media, or lose his scholarship. He gave up his scholarship.

The NCAA ultimately took it too far. They got to a point where they were preventing athletes from making money in other pursuits while on scholarship. That has always been my issue. I went to college on an academic scholarship. I knew other scholarship students that made extra cash by proofreading papers, tutoring high school students, teaching test prep strategies, etc. At no point were any of our scholarships in jeopardy because of that. But an athlete can't even pursue other interests and get paid for it, let alone get paid for teaching athletic skills.

If this ruins college sports for you, I don't know what to say.

For me, it actually may get me to watch a bit more. I had cut back on how much I watched college sports because I was tired of lining the pockets of coaches, university presidents, athletic directors and others at the expense of the players. There was a time where I watched almost every second of KU basketball. You guys on here know that, and have probably seen the degree to which I have dropped off in the last couple of years from my lack of comments here. This may help bring me back more often because the players will now have opportunities to benefit for themselves rather than just making other people rich.

@justanotherfan you are wrong. That is the direction that all of this going.

I say expand the G-League and let the NBA foot the bill, rather than the taxpayer. I also think that the NFL should start up a farm system similar to that of the G-League or MLB farm systems. Then if seventeen or eighteen year olds want to be paid they will atleast have the opportunity to do so, if good enough. Otherwise, take your scholarship and be happy.

@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@justanotherfan you are wrong. That is the direction that all of this going.

@Marco you may be right that this is all heading in that direction. Right now, that is not where it is at. All we have right now is the right of each student athlete to profit off their name, image and likeness in the commercial market, much as anyone else.

Now, that could certainly mean getting "appearance fees" from boosters, but those aren't taxpayer dollars. That could also mean getting endorsement deals from global sports companies, or even local businesses. Again, not taxpayer dollars.

If that ultimately means schools wind up paying student athletes to attend because that's where the market goes, well, that's just capitalism and market forces at work. Having the NCAA over-regulate to prevent that is wrong.

But that's a future possibility. The now is just name, image and likeness. That's not money from individual schools, unless those individual schools use the name, image or likeness of an athlete to promote particular events.

@Marco In what way would the taxpayer be footing this bill?

How many slippery slopes

will sports slide down,

with people saying it will no longer be fun?

And how many colleges

will slowly go broke,

as they pay all the good athletes to attend?

How many times

will KU get outrecruited,

once the amateur sports mythology no longer stands?

The answer, my friends,

is it doesn't matter to true fans,

it just doesn't matter to true fans!

@justanotherfan that is the direction that it is going, and when universities even after giving them fullride scholarships start paying athletes to play they will inevitably be dipping into taxpayer funds, and that does not smell like capitalism to me.

@Kcmatt7 the universities in such a scenario would be paying them, right? Do those universities not receive billions of dollars a year from the government? Who gives the money to the government?

@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Kcmatt7 the universities in such a scenario would be paying them, right? Do those universities not receive billions of dollars a year from the government? Who gives the money to the government?

Universities and athletic departments are separate entities. KU Athletics doesn't receive public funding unless you count student fees.

@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@drgnslayr Right? Who gets paid, and if so how much? How much do gymnasts get paid? What about cheerleaders or baseball players? I am not in support of the Court’s decision. What, going to pay high schoolers next? What the ruling will cause due to opening the NCAA and or even universities up to lawsuits is complete chaos. It will sooner rather than later hurt not only the true student-athlete - and there are alot of them - but also and eventually the entire system while perhaps ending it altogether. What about physics students who are studying to help advance the world and universe through science? How much should they be paid while going to school? What about the guy or girl who dresses as the mascot on gamedays?

To give you just an idea of a tiny part of the iceberg... listen to Self's words:

"“You can do whatever you like. It’d be hard for an individual to do some type of sponsorship deal with Coca-Cola if the university is a Pepsi-provided university. Could be the same with shoe companies. We don’t know about restaurants. We don’t know about dry cleaners. We don’t know about car dealerships. We have a pretty good understanding on what the value of 100,000 followers on Instagram would mean compared to somebody with 500,000 followers, compared to somebody with 10,000 followers. But everything is abstract, so we’re not really using it to sell, we’re just saying, ‘Whatever it is, we’ll maximize it.’”" - KUSports.com

The big money ticket for certain players will be in D1... not pro ball. Expect to hear a great deal about "fan following numbers." Let me put it to you this way... I'd be happy to be the representative for dry cleaners. Car dealerships? I'd beg for that gig! lol

Moving forward... it will be D1 players that have a lot more freedom to pursue revenue than NBA players. NBA players answer to team owners, the league, union... College players will have to answer to the university... but their position will be strong.

This quickly gives attention to eligibility rules. Why can't a player keep playing if he/she remains enrolled as an active student?

And what about the boatload of players out there who left D1 for pursuits or dried up eligibility? I'm guessing many would like to come back and work on their degrees (while making big $$$).

Another question... won't a big part of KU's instant success depend on the Kansas Board of Regents? They set policies for state-funded universities here... like Kansas! I think it is worth losing sleep here. Progressive? Hmmmm... not so much!

Does the rower, or mid major DI soccer player, or the UMKC volleyball player get paid too? Shouldn't they demand it too? After they, while generally not being as talented as their high level counterparts, are often competing on the same fields and in the same venues.

Just because athletes are going to be paid doesn't end the corruption because programs will exceed allowable stipends in order to entice recruits.

@wissox that's what I am saying. Not there yet, but definitely trying to go in that direction.

The mystery of a deleted post!

@wissox It was a screwup. I did like your post though 😂

@wissox said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

Does the rower, or mid major DI soccer player, or the UMKC volleyball player get paid too? Shouldn't they demand it too? After they, while generally not being as talented as their high level counterparts, are often competing on the same fields and in the same venues.

Just because athletes are going to be paid doesn't end the corruption because programs will exceed allowable stipends in order to entice recruits.

If those people can figure out how to monetize their NIL. Instagram probably won't be the major income source because of how many followers it would take to make decent money there. High level basketball and football are probably where the money is off of Instagram in regards to NIL.

For lower level athletes, the more likely options would be stuff like Twitch, Cameo, and stuff like that. Where it could get interesting and controversial which I would just about guarantee happens is someone on partial scholarship, like most non revenue sport athletes, is someone creating a Patreon or an OnlyFans account and posting nude images because it's just about guaranteed an athlete will go that route and a school will try and kick that person out for that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@wissox said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

Does the rower, or mid major DI soccer player, or the UMKC volleyball player get paid too? Shouldn't they demand it too? After they, while generally not being as talented as their high level counterparts, are often competing on the same fields and in the same venues.

Just because athletes are going to be paid doesn't end the corruption because programs will exceed allowable stipends in order to entice recruits.

If those people can figure out how to monetize their NIL. Instagram probably won't be the major income source because of how many followers it would take to make decent money there. High level basketball and football are probably where the money is off of Instagram in regards to NIL.

For lower level athletes, the more likely options would be stuff like Twitch, Cameo, and stuff like that. Where it could get interesting and controversial which I would just about guarantee happens is someone on partial scholarship, like most non revenue sport athletes, is someone creating a Patreon or an OnlyFans account and posting nude images because it's just about guaranteed an athlete will go that route and a school will try and kick that person out for that.

A Mike Novitsky OnlyFans would be HOT FIRE

https://theindependent.com/sports/college/runza-to-offer-historic-nil-deal-to-in-state-college-athletes/article_e085a9d5-dcd8-5ab1-b6b6-a0e5d83f144e.html ↗

NIL laws go into effect tomorrow so we should start seeing partnerships and promotional posts pretty quickly from KU athletes.

I do think a lot of people are blowing way out of proportion how much money athletes will earn from this arrangement. We're also not likely to see very players using their school logo when promoting a product since most states with an NIL law have banned that and I assume will end up being prohibited once rules are standardized nationally.

I think the most financially successful NIL arrangements will end up being subscription based services such as Twitch and Cameo.

I am curious where that line will end up being in regards to that area because it's all but a certainty that college athlete is going to advantage of their looks and physique they have and create an OnlyFans while participating in a sport.

I'm also curious how this will impact the new EA Sports College Football game in regards to obtaining permission to use a player's NIL.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I've already seen some tweet their DM's are open.

Our man Mitch already is out soliciting NIL opportunities. This is gonna get wild

They will be getting most of their money from well to do individuals and or shoe companies such as Adidas. Hmm,, that almost sounds familiar. It is going to be interesting how this all shakes out,,, like, for example, what certain members of the Oklahoma women's gymnastics and softball teams decide to do, etc.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31724992/teenage-hoop-stars-get-paid-earlier-ever-does-mean-ncaa ↗

"Now, it's not that the kid needs a college," he says. "It's really a partnership, and that partnership needs to be balanced a little bit more than it is now."

How about you save the scholarships for the kids who do?

@Texas-Hawk-10

RE: EA Sports... This ruling makes a College Basketball edition much more likely in the future.

We'll never know how OP that 2019-2020 squad with Doke would have been.. but if we'd had the game, we could have had a lot of fun dunking over and over for the final 6+ games of the season.

@bskeet said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10

RE: EA Sports... This ruling makes a College Basketball edition much more likely in the future.

We'll never know how OP that 2019-2020 squad with Doke would have been.. but if we'd had the game, we could have had a lot of fun dunking over and over for the final 6+ games of the season.

I hope EA doesn't do the college basketball game because their basketball games have been trash. I'd much rather 2K make the college basketball game.

Looks like Mitch Lightfoot is the first Jayhawk basketball player to sign an endorsement with 1-800-Got-Junk because he apparently has the messiest locker, lol!

1. Sorry if I missed it earlier, but will this ruling have any impact on the NCAA vs. KU case?

2. Also, you’d think this would make players stay longer, right? So a good thing for college basketball?

3. At least, so long as they are still motivated to play hard despite having already received income.

4. We are KU and that should still help get recruits. But perhaps not as much anymore since they can get paid (more easily) to go anywhere, particularly the larger markets, right?

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

1. Sorry if I missed it earlier, but will this ruling have any impact on the NCAA vs. KU case?

2. Also, you’d think this would make players stay longer, right? So a good thing for college basketball?

3. At least, so long as they are still motivated to play hard despite having already received income.

4. We are KU and that should still help get recruits. But perhaps not as much anymore since they can get paid (more easily) to go anywhere, particularly the larger markets, right?

To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

I would think there’s a strong enough relationship between NIL and KU’s case that it may have some impact? E.g. If NIL existed then perhaps KU wouldn’t have done this or that (allegedly)?

Also for the marginal kids, the ones who may or may not make money by declaring, perhaps NIL would give them the incentive they needed to return?

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

I would think there’s a strong enough relationship between NIL and KU’s case that it may have some impact? E.g. If NIL existed then perhaps KU wouldn’t have done this or that (allegedly)?

Also for the marginal kids, the ones who may or may not make money by declaring, perhaps NIL would give them the incentive they needed to return?

NIL has absolutely nothing to do with KU's case. New NIL regulations won't change how Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour operate at the grassroots level funneling kids to specific programs. A $2,500 endorsement deal isn't going to stop Nike or Adidas from funneling $25,000 to a recruit's family (more money the higher ranked the recruit is).

Your second point is just flat out bad business. NIL is going to have no impact on whether a player stays or goes pro because there's no restrictions on endorsements as a pro so players would get any NIL endorsement money on top of their professional salary. If a kid chooses to return to school solely because of NIL, then that kid needs to take a financial literacy class because that kid is dumb and financially illiterate.

https://mwwire.com/2021/07/03/fresno-states-cavinder-twins-could-make-more-than-double-than-basketball-coach/ ↗

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

I would think there’s a strong enough relationship between NIL and KU’s case that it may have some impact? E.g. If NIL existed then perhaps KU wouldn’t have done this or that (allegedly)?

Also for the marginal kids, the ones who may or may not make money by declaring, perhaps NIL would give them the incentive they needed to return?

NIL has absolutely nothing to do with KU's case. New NIL regulations won't change how Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour operate at the grassroots level funneling kids to specific programs. A $2,500 endorsement deal isn't going to stop Nike or Adidas from funneling $25,000 to a recruit's family (more money the higher ranked the recruit is).

Your second point is just flat out bad business. NIL is going to have no impact on whether a player stays or goes pro because there's no restrictions on endorsements as a pro so players would get any NIL endorsement money on top of their professional salary. If a kid chooses to return to school solely because of NIL, then that kid needs to take a financial literacy class because that kid is dumb and financially illiterate.

Depends on the specifics. If a particular booster is willing to go above and beyond any reasonable rate to retain someone, could be the case. To my knowledge, Devon Dotson doesn't have any lucrative NIL deals. Maybe on shoes? And makes ok money as a 2 way. A booster could theoretically (if NIL was passed 18 months ago) say, "yo Devon. I'll give you a $750k deal to endorse my insurance product." Total compensation would be about equal. Is this likely to happen? No. But at big time college programs like KU basketball and Nebraska football with rabid fanbases and great booster support, it's quite possible.

@FarmerJayhawk said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

I would think there’s a strong enough relationship between NIL and KU’s case that it may have some impact? E.g. If NIL existed then perhaps KU wouldn’t have done this or that (allegedly)?

Also for the marginal kids, the ones who may or may not make money by declaring, perhaps NIL would give them the incentive they needed to return?

NIL has absolutely nothing to do with KU's case. New NIL regulations won't change how Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour operate at the grassroots level funneling kids to specific programs. A $2,500 endorsement deal isn't going to stop Nike or Adidas from funneling $25,000 to a recruit's family (more money the higher ranked the recruit is).

Your second point is just flat out bad business. NIL is going to have no impact on whether a player stays or goes pro because there's no restrictions on endorsements as a pro so players would get any NIL endorsement money on top of their professional salary. If a kid chooses to return to school solely because of NIL, then that kid needs to take a financial literacy class because that kid is dumb and financially illiterate.

Depends on the specifics. If a particular booster is willing to go above and beyond any reasonable rate to retain someone, could be the case. To my knowledge, Devon Dotson doesn't have any lucrative NIL deals. Maybe on shoes? And makes ok money as a 2 way. A booster could theoretically (if NIL was passed 18 months ago) say, "yo Devon. I'll give you a $750k deal to endorse my insurance product." Total compensation would be about equal. Is this likely to happen? No. But at big time college programs like KU basketball and Nebraska football with rabid fanbases and great booster support, it's quite possible.

Your proposed scenario would likely never happen because that would be a major rules violation that could ruin a program. NIL legislation restricts athletes from signing NIL deals with companies associated with boosters so unless a school wants the NCAA handing out punishment, your proposed scenario will never happen.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@FarmerJayhawk said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@chriz said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
To answer your questions:

1. No, none of KU's issues involved NIL stuff.

2. No, very few people will make enough from NIL deals to want to stay in school longer. If someone is good to turn pro early, that's going to be more money than staying in school.

3. Someone will end up as the poster child of how not to balance academic/athletic/NIL responsibilities

4. Most NIL based deals will be relatively small and from local businesses. The NIL deal will have minimal impact on KU's recruiting unless the athletic department totally botches how they handle and promote NIL opportunities to kids.

I would think there’s a strong enough relationship between NIL and KU’s case that it may have some impact? E.g. If NIL existed then perhaps KU wouldn’t have done this or that (allegedly)?

Also for the marginal kids, the ones who may or may not make money by declaring, perhaps NIL would give them the incentive they needed to return?

NIL has absolutely nothing to do with KU's case. New NIL regulations won't change how Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour operate at the grassroots level funneling kids to specific programs. A $2,500 endorsement deal isn't going to stop Nike or Adidas from funneling $25,000 to a recruit's family (more money the higher ranked the recruit is).

Your second point is just flat out bad business. NIL is going to have no impact on whether a player stays or goes pro because there's no restrictions on endorsements as a pro so players would get any NIL endorsement money on top of their professional salary. If a kid chooses to return to school solely because of NIL, then that kid needs to take a financial literacy class because that kid is dumb and financially illiterate.

Depends on the specifics. If a particular booster is willing to go above and beyond any reasonable rate to retain someone, could be the case. To my knowledge, Devon Dotson doesn't have any lucrative NIL deals. Maybe on shoes? And makes ok money as a 2 way. A booster could theoretically (if NIL was passed 18 months ago) say, "yo Devon. I'll give you a $750k deal to endorse my insurance product." Total compensation would be about equal. Is this likely to happen? No. But at big time college programs like KU basketball and Nebraska football with rabid fanbases and great booster support, it's quite possible.

Your proposed scenario would likely never happen because that would be a major rules violation that could ruin a program. NIL legislation restricts athletes from signing NIL deals with companies associated with boosters so unless a school wants the NCAA handing out punishment, your proposed scenario will never happen.

It absolutely doesn't prohibit that. From the NCAA document, "12. Can individuals enter into NIL agreements with boosters?

Yes, provided the activity is in accordance with state laws and school policy, is not an impermissible inducement and it does not constitute pay-for-play."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/miami-booster-offers-540000-nil-endorsement-deal-to-all-hurricanes-scholarship-football-players/ ↗

I'm not smart enough to be able to wrap my brain around all the particulars of the NIL thing and I haven't had the time to study any of it, but my gut tells me this is going to spiral out of control very quickly and there are going to be lots of unintended consequences.

@BigBad I saw that and was going to post bit forgot. :thumbs_up: tip of the iceberg.

@BigBad said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/miami-booster-offers-540000-nil-endorsement-deal-to-all-hurricanes-scholarship-football-players/ ↗

Very misleading and click bait-y title.

From the article:

"Players can earn up to $6,000 a year by promoting the gyms through social media, personal appearances and other marketing tactics."

That's not money that's going to influence anyone to stay an extra year.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

That’s not money that’s going to influence anyone to stay an extra year.

Maybe not, but that's certainly money that might influence someone to go to Miami over another school. Not everyone is likeable and marketable. Not everyone is cream-of-the-crop talent-wise or the "loveable loser" that endears someone to the public at large. Someone who would normally fall through the NIL cracks is now guaranteed to get a shot at some cash. I think that's a pretty big deal.

Also, this is notable because it's the first instance (as far as I know) of a company taking an entire team under its wing. In my opinion that will certainly turn some heads in the recruiting game.

@tis4tim You got it. The mid-major or small schools are going to be left holding the empty bag. For example, do you think that what Gonzaga has become could've happened had there been NIL? I doubt it. And there probably won't be another one. This thing has slippery slope written all over it.

Gonzaga never happens if Mark Few leaves. He is the reason that program is what it is. Has nothing to do with NIL. Everything to do with a coach who found ways to get top end talent to his school. He recruited abroad better than anyone else. He took transfers. He developed well.

@Kcmatt7 that he did. But would it have happened now? I say no.

@Marco time will tell. I think the transfer rules have hurt mid-majors far more than the NIL will.

Gonzaga is no longer a mid major, of course. I mean technically they are but they are a big boy, deep into the game with the bags to keep it going.

@Kcmatt7 They will both hurt.

You know, after giving it more thought, I'm good with NIL. When it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and those that are delivering the product are paid nothing - yet when a player gets caught being paid something both them and their school are punished, how is that even close to being cool? In point of fact, it sounds downright un-American.

@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

You know, after giving it more thought, I'm good with NIL. When it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise yet those that are delivering the product are paid nothing, and if when they are paid something and their school gets caught that school is and or might be put on probation, how is that even close to being cool? In point of fact, it sounds downright un-American.

US history would like to have a word with you on that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 "Un-American" usually means contrary to America's purported ideals, which as you point out certainly can seldom be found to have been followed in our history.

Or, more succinctly, American history is pretty damned un-American.

@BigBad

Just the beginning. Mark my word... there will be a million past athletes wanting back into D1 soon. I expect this to litigate or the NCAA bends quickly to this.

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@BigBad

Just the beginning. Mark my word... there will be a million past athletes wanting back into D1 soon. I expect this to litigate or the NCAA bends quickly to this.

There may be plenty of people wanting back in, but unless they still have eligibility and value to a program, they're going to be out of luck. And no, courts will not side with athletes on that issue.

Meh - Don't see it happening at all.

NCAA will end up with a class action lawsuit that pays out a ton of money to former athletes for lost earnings. But that will be the end of that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

There may be plenty of people wanting back in, but unless they still have eligibility and value to a program, they’re going to be out of luck. And no, courts will not side with athletes on that issue.

For sure. I think they will start putting pressure on the NCAA to change eligibility. Question then... is that fair to high school players coming in? This could be argued that it will help more players earn degrees.

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

There may be plenty of people wanting back in, but unless they still have eligibility and value to a program, they’re going to be out of luck. And no, courts will not side with athletes on that issue.

For sure. I think they will start putting pressure on the NCAA to change eligibility. Question then... is that fair to high school players coming in? This could be argued that it will help more players earn degrees.

The NCAA isn't changing anything in that regard because the people you're talking about have zero leverage to make the NCAA change anything because a court can't force a school to take back a kid in that situation because athletic scholarships are only good for one year and a school can say we're choosing not to renew so and so's scholarship. If anything happens, maybe records get restored for players who had previous NIL violations, but that's it.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

There may be plenty of people wanting back in, but unless they still have eligibility and value to a program, they’re going to be out of luck. And no, courts will not side with athletes on that issue.

For sure. I think they will start putting pressure on the NCAA to change eligibility. Question then... is that fair to high school players coming in? This could be argued that it will help more players earn degrees.

The NCAA isn't changing anything in that regard because the people you're talking about have zero leverage to make the NCAA change anything because a court can't force a school to take back a kid in that situation because athletic scholarships are only good for one year and a school can say we're choosing not to renew so and so's scholarship. If anything happens, maybe records get restored for players who had previous NIL violations, but that's it.

The Big 12 and other P5 leagues adopted multi year guaranteed scholarships years ago. https://big12sports.com/news/2014/12/1/209788901.aspx ↗

@FarmerJayhawk said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@drgnslayr said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NCAA loses more power... again...:

There may be plenty of people wanting back in, but unless they still have eligibility and value to a program, they’re going to be out of luck. And no, courts will not side with athletes on that issue.

For sure. I think they will start putting pressure on the NCAA to change eligibility. Question then... is that fair to high school players coming in? This could be argued that it will help more players earn degrees.

The NCAA isn't changing anything in that regard because the people you're talking about have zero leverage to make the NCAA change anything because a court can't force a school to take back a kid in that situation because athletic scholarships are only good for one year and a school can say we're choosing not to renew so and so's scholarship. If anything happens, maybe records get restored for players who had previous NIL violations, but that's it.

The Big 12 and other P5 leagues adopted multi year guaranteed scholarships years ago. https://big12sports.com/news/2014/12/1/209788901.aspx ↗

Not across the board and the situation @drgnslayr is far more likely to be relevant at lower level schools that only do 1 year scholarships.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I wasn't referring to U.S. history, which I know more than my share of. I am talking about free people having the ability to make money, any money.