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Bill Self "growth stunter"
Jan 05, 2022 03:02 AM #1

You all ready for 3rd - 4th place in the Big 12?

Coach neutered an All American guard (nice 3 for his 21st bucket 25 minutes in...brutal coach way to screw guys mentally in order to toughen them up but just mess it all up) so instead of having a big 3 we have a big 1 1/2 depending on Braun.

Coach followed that up with a guy who can beat anyone off the dribble and score with the shortest leash I've ever seen.

Have we gotten more athletic and better as the man himself said after last years round of 32 drubbing? Nope so be prepared for another early exit.

When you can't beat a team that's not even full strenght on the road it's going to be a long year.

Basketball is best when the big is a 7 foot athletic rim runner (see Baylor) with minimal athletic skill. Block shots, set screens, rebound, dunk on lobs.

You play 5 out and space the floor. The old adage of "you have to throw it into the post to open up things" has been disproved for a while now (see the warriors on spacing and ball movement in modern basketball).

Hey another Harris turnover no surprise there.....Pettiford can't ever have it taken from him but he'd never played ahead of Harris because "Harri's went undefeated in summer ball" - per the man himself. Get out of here on putting emphasis on something so meaningless.

Guys can know your system but when not athletic enough won't make the plays. You stunted the athletes you did have by handcuffing them.

You made your bed now you lie in it.

Jan 05, 2022 04:22 AM #2

Yeah that being said I’d take Self over any college coach in the game right now

Jan 05, 2022 04:42 AM #3

Scott Drew & Jay Wright

The guy at ISU has them playing D all over the place. I’ve watched 4 of their games and Tristan is active and aggressive not scared to be yanked.

I don’t know if homers would claim the systems to complicated or what but our guys look like early 2000’s with defensive scheme compared to isu and Baylor.

Why 1 guy gets a leash and another doesn’t makes no sense. As a coach your job is to have us playing the best in March and get the absolute most out of our guys. Self doesn’t do that it’s the exact opposite unless you are one of his pets.

Remy should be like Akinjo leading this team with Och and Braun instead he’s neutered. Self instilled no confidence in him and deserves everything he’s got coming to him with his lack of developing these players.

Joe came in looks aggressive in FL. He is all over on defense (not always in the right position but defense matters to self and man’ing up he can do) and he’s so athletic he immediately comes in beats his man off the dribble for lobs to our bigs.

Meanwhile Harris who is a solid backup is the new Frank mason in selfs mind and has to be on the floor even when he gets beat off the dribble or turns it over back to back possessions yet never is yanked.

That’s bad coaching. Even coach Saban has grown that his young team he can’t berate as much and has to encourage.

Self hasn’t evolved he’s actually digressed and his lack of playing better athletes is exposed more as our roster isn’t full of all Americans.

Jan 05, 2022 05:04 AM #4

So Jay and Drew have passed Self in a month? Ok.

Look, it’s no secret why KU has struggled to land top tier talent the last recruiting cycle. And it’s not because of coaching. ISU is a paper tiger. They play hard but we’ll blow their doors off because they can’t score at all and haven’t played anyone.

Self’s defense is complicated, that’s well documented. And it works. Remy had no accountability or structure at ASU (source: Remy) so he’s getting used to playing a different style. ASU didn’t win jack with Remy as their best player so not like that’s what we should aim for. He’s clearly not a scrub, but he’s a good #2 on a title team.

I agree Yes should be playing more. I like him as the first guard off the bench, JCL the first wing, Wilson to the practice gym. Juan also bailed us out on multiple possessions tonight. With Remy far less than 100% he was our only reliable ballhandler. Yes is a scoring guard, not a point.

Self is the best in league play. History says we’ll get better as we go.

Jan 05, 2022 06:26 AM #5

@kuballin10

Okay... you get the award for kicking some life into this group. Keep up the critical approach... everyone needs to be challenged in here and that hasn't really happened since HEM left.

What worked tonight was Self ripping DMac's ass. I couldn't believe what I was seeing... David actually lifting his legs and running the court like everyone else. On one play he scored at the rim and made it back quicker than anyone and rebounding a fastbreak shot from OSU. Bravo!

Who didn't get ripped tonight, and clearly deserved it... was Och! It's like he went out there and got his points early and then went on cruise control. Not sure what is on his mind... but what is on my mind is he is reverting to old habits of becoming invisible in games. He definitely did NOT raise his NBA stock tonight! Quite the opposite.

OSU just plain sucked! I'm still surprised we pulled out of there with a victory.

As I mentioned before the game... this would be a game won by possessions. Look at the stat sheet... the guys who rebounded lead the +/- category by a substantial amount. Braun is keeping his role as Superman. DMac finally elevated his game. The guy who matters as much as anyone else on this team, Wilson... still stunk on his shot, his rut continues... but he nabs 15 boards in 26 minutes. He is going to matter in our success this year as much as anyone. Maybe he kicks in gear when Self chews his ass out there.

I'm a Self fan... make no mistake about it. But if you read back on my rants for all these years you will discover my view of Self's Achille's heal as being not able to get his troops emotionally psyched for games and play hard... like Jay Wright is effective. Drew and Baylor... a completely different story. They have an NBA approach (in some ways) because they realize how important it is to have the complete package from the main office down to the water boy. I don't expect Baylor to fall from the top of the Big 12 (or nation) anytime soon. As a true fan of the sport itself, my hat tips to coaches like Wright and Drew.

If you exam the stat line on Self... he's achieved a great deal. I still remain critical about Kansas basketball but as I have aged I don't downgrade Self as much because I see other schools passing us. Instead, I acknowledge those schools on the move for what they are achieving. Just not a fan of Calipari and K.

Jan 05, 2022 07:13 AM #6

@kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

Remy should be like Akinjo leading this team with Och and Braun instead he’s neutered.

Totally agree with this statement. What’s the point of playing Remy — a guy who doesn’t remotely fit Self’s defensive mold — if he’s barely allowed to use his offensive talent!?

Makes no sense. If Pettiford was healthy, I’d advocate playing him for his all around play over neutered Remy.

I sure hope there’s a Self grand plan here that we aren’t privy to.

Jan 05, 2022 01:12 PM #7

We just won a road game in a place where we historically struggle by double digits while missing 20 straight shots. Was it ugly at times , yes it was. But guess what… that’s conference play on the road.

Remy still isn’t 100% and I think that is why he wasn’t very aggressive last night.

Jan 05, 2022 01:57 PM #8

I will say this if Self watches film and thinks Jalen Wilson should be playing 20 minutes a game he's straight up crazy. Great he rebounded but he's got zero game on offense and the defense is even worse. I have no idea what he is doing tbh

Jan 05, 2022 02:08 PM #9

I do think we are criticizing the #4 offense in the country a bit much... While I can hear the argument that this team isn't playing up to their full offensive potential, they are still an elite offense. This while Dave has been mostly butt, Remy hasn't been at 100%, and Wilson is playing 25 mpg while on a stretch that makes me yearn for the offensive prowess of freshman Marcus Garrett.

While I do agree that we should have looked for a rim protector big man, I don't think it is the end of the world. I don't have that same feeling of worry for the 1st round exit like I did a year ago. Just too much talent imo. Ignoring the Dayton fluke, the next closest game has been an 8 point win.

Also, we should all get used to winning ugly. Because that is going to be the B12 this year.

Kenpom D Ratings:
- Baylor #5
- Kansas #30
- Texas #9
- Tech #10
- OU #36
- OSU #19
- ISU #7
- KSU #45
- TCU #52
- WVU #27
- Kentucky #15

Literally not a "Bad" defense left on the schedule. The B12 is going to be a bunch of fist fights where very few wins feel like they come easy.

Jan 05, 2022 02:38 PM #10

It has been concerning that this team is struggling to score in the last two games. Perhaps it's a product of the 11 day break and getting back into flow and getting momentum going forward. Just feels like we have only certain pieces playing to their potential and when you don't have 5 guys on the same page it looks bad at times. It looks like JCL is starting to carve a real role with real value with his shot making.

Definitely a murders row of defenses. If they are truly a top 5 offense they will find ways to make good defenses look average

Jan 05, 2022 03:05 PM #11

@BeddieKU23 We fell apart the second he took Juan out, and put in JW.

Jan 05, 2022 03:09 PM #12

@BeddieKU23 I think our offense flowed best when we had a healthy Remy and a Pettiford driving the lane, and opening up the floor for OCH and Braun. We need a healthy Remy, and a healthy Pettiford. I also think we are giving too many minutes to JW, and too few to Yes. He'll work it out, though.

Jan 05, 2022 03:38 PM #13

@Jethro I agree on all points.

Jan 05, 2022 03:40 PM #14

Yesufu and Adams definitely need to play more. Kind of lost in the shuffle and playing time debate? Clemence.

Jan 05, 2022 03:51 PM #15

@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I do think we are criticizing the #4 offense in the country a bit much... While I can hear the argument that this team isn't playing up to their full offensive potential, they are still an elite offense. This while Dave has been mostly butt, Remy hasn't been at 100%, and Wilson is playing 25 mpg while on a stretch that makes me yearn for the offensive prowess of freshman Marcus Garrett.

While I do agree that we should have looked for a rim protector big man, I don't think it is the end of the world. I don't have that same feeling of worry for the 1st round exit like I did a year ago. Just too much talent imo. Ignoring the Dayton fluke, the next closest game has been an 8 point win.

Also, we should all get used to winning ugly. Because that is going to be the B12 this year.

Kenpom D Ratings:
- Baylor #5
- Kansas #30
- Texas #9
- Tech #10
- OU #36
- OSU #19
- ISU #7
- KSU #45
- TCU #52
- WVU #27
- Kentucky #15

Literally not a "Bad" defense left on the schedule. The B12 is going to be a bunch of fist fights where very few wins feel like they come easy.

Not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that we are an elite offense. Based on what? We literally haven't played a top 50 caliber team other than Michigan State in the very first game. In fact, MSU is the only team we've played that is in the Kenpom top 50. Only 5 are in the top 100 (and Iona barely). 8 of our 12 wins have come against teams with Kenpom defensive efficiency rankings above 100. Statistically, Oklahoma St. is the best defense we've played against - #19 in Kempom defensive rankings - and we saw how that turned out. The saving grace is that their offense is offensive - ranked 140th.

I don't think there is any basis for concluding we have an "elite" offense at this juncture. Time will tell whether last night was an indication of true color against a quality defense or an aberration. If the former, we are going to struggle mightily against the teams you've noted - all of which have better offensives than OSU....

Jan 05, 2022 03:59 PM #16

Just a reminder. In 2020 this coach who doesn't have it any more was a pandemic away from his 2nd national championship. No guarantees of course but as good as that team was playing no one would have been surprised if they had won it all. While none of those guys has distinguished themselves so far, 3 of them were future NBA players and 2 more Braun and Ochai are likely NBA players. He had nice talent and they were playing at a high level.

Jan 05, 2022 05:15 PM #17

The best coaches in any sport are stubborn, but also flexible. Stubborn because they know what works, but flexible enough to make necessary adjustments to fit their situation, personnel and style.

Self has proven that he is stubborn. Now he has to show some flexibility.

The best players on this team are perimeter guys. That means interior guys are on the floor to play hard, grab rebounds and dunk lobs. That's it. They get few or no post touches because that's not the strength of this team. Last night, Big Dave got going because he was pursuing every rebound. That has to continue. He has to understand that most of his offense will come from putbacks, so he better get on the glass on both ends. Same for Mitch. Same for whoever else gets minutes at the 5.

Self demands accountability, which is great. He also has to know which guys need more space to play. Remy Martin did zero for most of the game, then iced the game with a couple big time buckets down the stretch. He should be that type of threat from the opening bucket. Agbaji started hot, then disappeared due to foul trouble and cold shooting for almost 20 minutes. Where's a play drawn up to get him a good look? Same for Braun. Why aren't plays getting drawn up to keep your two All American level wings involved offensively?

Those are the adjustments necessary because the defenses are going to get better. They have film to review now. They know what's coming. So now you have to show some schemes to get Agbaji and Braun loose on offense with something other than stepback threes. Why aren't we seeing some Agbaji/Braun fade screen action? Why don't we see them iso'd for a little two man game. Both can handle, pass, and shoot. Why aren't we combining that? We need that creativity because they can carry us to and through March.

Jan 05, 2022 06:21 PM #18

@DCHawker I don't really know how you can use kenpom rankings as an argument against the offense, and then ignore that kenpom has KU ranked as the 4th best offensive team in the country.

I mean out of the top 10 in Kenpom, we've played the 2nd hardest schedule so far. And our defensive schedule is actually 37th in the country. So as far as scoring against good defenses, we have done it against a top 15% schedule.

Meaning we have the 7th best FG% and 8th most points ppg in the country against a reasonably hard schedule.

Teams ahead of us in FG%

  • Gonzaga - 265 SOS - 252 DSOS
  • Colorado State - 269 SOS - 246 DSOS
  • South Dakota State - 132 SOS - 140 DSOS
  • Purdue - 114 SOS - 214 DSOS
  • Loyola (IL) - 147 SOS - 84 DSOS
  • Murray State - 164 SOS - 277 DSOS

The only team playing anywhere near our level of schedule and scoring the ball more efficiently than us is Loyola Chicago. If you do the same with PPG, the story is basically the same. Except sub out CSU and Loyola for Cornell (278 SOS - 320 DSOS), Arizona (157 SOS - 184 DSOS) and Iowa (255 SOS - 209 DSOS).

Point being - KU is scoring the ball very well pretty much no matter how you want to look at it. And they've done it against a way harder schedule than the majority of the other top teams in the country so far.

Jan 05, 2022 06:33 PM #19

Ok. I’m going to throw this out there but I do think some people may be discounting JWs rebounding as a DEFENSIVE skill. Yes he may bet blown by or miss an assignment, but without him (and new Dave last night) we have struggled to END defensive possessions.

The rebounding WAS the difference last night. Getting this offense more possessions is a fairly simple recipe for success. And yes, to this point, this team has been successful as someone above pointed out the only loss coming on a last second miracle.

Jan 05, 2022 06:48 PM #20

@benshawks08 that's why he's playing

Jan 05, 2022 08:04 PM #21

@Kcmatt7 Fair point about using Kenpom defensive rankings, but not reflecting our Kenpom offensive efficiency ranking. I will continue to take issue with the strength of our schedule, which - admittedly without a deeper dive - seems to have been the weakest non-conference schedule for KU in memory. It's "strength" is a reflection of the fact that - unlike others - we haven't played any really bad teams. Only 2 with losing records. Lowest Kenpom ranking is Stony Brook at 209. But, other than MSU, we also haven't played any very good teams - again, MSU is the only one ranked in the top 50. And, MSU is likely the only at-large caliber team we've played in non-conference (UK will be one more). Contrast our schedule with Iowa State. Ours is ranked much higher, which is a product of the fact that half of ISU's wins are against objectively bad teams. But, they also have beaten 3-4 at-large caliber teams (Iowa, Xavier, Creighton and Memphis) and their only loss is a much "better" loss than ours. I'm just saying that at least I find it hard to draw any conclusions about KU generally, including offensive capability, given the schedule we've played. We simply haven't demonstrated YET that we can or will be efficient against quality opposition.

Jan 05, 2022 09:47 PM #22

I guess it just depends on what particular site you look at , will give you various opinions about where your team is as far as strength of schedule goes. - you look at 10 different sites - -you more likely then not your going to get 10 different answers. I've voiced my opinion whether you agree , disagree , it's all good we are all entitled to our own opinion or whatever. My thoughts are at THIS POINT could change tomorrow the next day whatever , but my question at THIS POINT in the Season , if you were an opponent of KU - - - would KU put the fear of GOD into you ? - -Let me ask do you think is under rated should we be higher in the pols? - you feel we are not getting respect ? - -if you do whats you reasoning for that?

I look at the way our Season has gone how we have played - defensively - - - -free throw pct's - - - rebounding - -who do you think we should be above in the teams currently above us right now ? I watch this team and just at this point again it can change but right now - this is not a NCAA Champion team - -were a good team , a really good team but not an NCAA Champion team . You just don't see that flow.

Take Remy Martin , good player but he tries to make better plays/passes then what the simple pass would get the deuce and because of some of those passes they turn into turnovers , you take Jalen - good rebounder but defensively huge liability you watch - -focus on Jalen and his man sometime , he is getting beat consistently and his shooting pct is miserable , David ? - and I'm a Dave supporter BUT until this last game not even close to what he should be getting - he is at what like 5.8 rebounds somewhere like that, should be closer to at least 8 - that's just the tip of things.

You watch KU and then you watch Baylor teams like that just things different. - just like when Baylor was playing Iowa State at Hilton, Baylor ALWAYS had an answer, Iowa State make a run & Baylor always answered the challenge - -Their guard is an absolute stud - -good height - -very athletic. Am I saying KU can't/wont beat them ? - -hell no I'm not just saying at this point Baylor is the better team , and like some others said right at this point an agrument for Iowa State could be made for giving KU fits looking to see how it works when WE go to Hilton.

Like I said might have guys here think I'm a KU basher/hater. Think what you want is what I would say , you can do that , I'm just stating what I see. - -if you go on on of these streaks go 0-20 and a 9:112 drought in the tourney - -you will be blown out. Game over - - Season over - - Done.

like I said in the beginning if your wanting to compare things just depends on what site you look at. I just looked at Strength of Schedule from the NCAA College Basketball and where the 5 other teams sit on their strength of schedule -they were this - -Baylor ( 15th ) - - -Duke ( 11th ) - -UCLA ( 9th ) - - - Gonzaga ( 3rd ) - - Purdue ( 20th ) - - - & KU ( 26th ) - -just sayin - just some thoughts your up to yours - -I ain't mad at ya again you agree or not agree thats fine hope this doesn't turn into war of words everyone is entitled to what they think & at this point I think w are ranked right about where we should be. Maybe even anotch or two high, BUT CERTAINLY not above any of these teams ranked above us

Jan 05, 2022 10:44 PM #23

Lunardi has us back to a #1 seed again.

Jan 05, 2022 11:16 PM #24

@mayjay said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

Lunardi has us back to a #1 seed again.

ya seen that today and I like the region and the teams thats in our bracket - -if it only turned out to be the case - - out of forth worth Texas

Jan 06, 2022 05:23 AM #25

I'm not going to let KenPromNight tell me what my eyes see.

KU Offense: Top 30

KU Defense: Top 200

We should be a lot tighter as we start conference play, especially considering we aren't playing freshmen.

"On any given night we can bet anyone!" That's a great phrase, worthy of a bumpersticker. But when describing conference play I'd rather hear other comments about how superior we are to everyone else.

Once again, we are starting conference play without a definite "team leader." A floor general. Someone to rally the troops. Someone in between coach and players to bark orders. Someone controlling tempo. Someone reading defenses. Someone calling plays. You know... the way basketball used to be played.

I am a big fan of Harris and Martin. Harris has a lot more potential left in his game as he grows into manhood. Martin... still trying to assess if and what he will be able to do more. I definitely think we need Bobby healthy and he should give us some good minutes ahead.

Where is this team on the toughness scale? Anyone willing to reply?

Jan 06, 2022 04:43 PM #26

@drgnslayr not going to lie, the Okie State game tampered my expectations for our team. So far, it looks like we're playing for 2nd place in conference at best, and if we got to the sweet 16 I'd call it a good season.

Jan 06, 2022 05:02 PM #27

@Marco

It is so easy to feel this way... and at times, I do, too.

But I also see a team with so much potential. Look at the bright side of this game. Maybe Dave is back and ready for a great season moving forward!

It is a year we are really missing Marcus Garrett! We really need these guys to buy in to pressing hard on defense. Without that happening... we can't go far. We've got the personnel to compete with anyone! We just need all 5 players on the floor bought in to heavy pressure every single play! Harris has bought in...

I think Martin is a big key when it comes to defense. He may be our "quickest" player and he's capable of stepping up more on D. He's a guy that is so visible on the floor. You just can't miss his play while he's on the floor. He could do a lot to inspire others.

The difference is 5%! We don't need guys to just give 100%. Somewhere around 105% we will kick the sh*t out of every team in the nation, including Baylor!

Jan 06, 2022 05:08 PM #28

@drgnslayr I forget which year it was that Self said his team was tough. Thinking it was the final four year, but it may have been the blowout loss to Oregon year too. I forget. May have been 2020 which was definitely a tough team. I went and looked at their schedule. They lost to Duke, Nova, Baylor, no slouches there of course, defeated national runner up TT twice and future NC Baylor. I think that team was tough.

How do you quantify tough? Is it going unbeaten? Winning in tough places? Coming back in a game like we did the other night and overcoming an unheard of shooting slump? Is it just intimidating the heck out of everyone like Kentucky 2012 did? Is it playing lockdown defense? Or is it having an offense that will always score more than your shaky defense gives up?

I'd think this years version of tough for us is looking to be the last one. Not thinking we're going to ride our defense to a title, but I think our offense can carry us to a title.

Jan 06, 2022 11:55 PM #29

@wissox said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

How do you quantify tough? Is it going unbeaten? Winning in tough places? Coming back in a game like we did the other night and overcoming an unheard of shooting slump? Is it just intimidating the heck out of everyone like Kentucky 2012 did? Is it playing lockdown defense? Or is it having an offense that will always score more than your shaky defense gives up?

I don't always think the toughest teams win. I think part of it is optics. What we see. We see guys scrapping it out. Running at full speed on every play. Exhausted yet still hitting another gear.

There are different kinds of tough. There is physical toughness. Being exhausted but still going hard. There is also mental toughness. Our current team is in good physical shape and we have a bench to help the minutes load. But what I did see at OSU was a certain amount of mental toughness. I didn't see our guys give up. Didn't see heads hanging low or frustration. If the sportscasters didn't keep telling us, you couldn't tell they had missed 20 or so shots in a row. That mental toughness impressed me. I was also impressed with David and his physical toughness. He stepped up and hustled.

I see other guys not quite being tough enough in some areas.

Jan 06, 2022 11:55 PM #30

Tough means not soft. Win while playing ugly. I think we had some long discussions a few years ago about playing ugly. I'm not sure how to quantify any of these classic Self phrases, but they are all related. Can you be tough when your team is pretty, or just ugly?

Jan 07, 2022 12:43 AM #31

I would like to think that Remy has another gear, and he's been pulling the Tyshawn Taylor senior year trick. I think there is another level to his game that could truly change our fortunes. Hopefully him and Bill can mindmeld and unlock his talents. Remy going off will really help Braun and Och, and open things up. As much as I want OCH and Braun to be alphas, the real alpha is Remy. I bet he's the guy that's going to take the last shot.

I also think Big Dave will now be known as Good Dave the rest of the season. The benching helped, and we saw some really nice work the other night. He made some nice shots, and actually rebounded the ball for once. I know- he also had some sucky moments, but Good Dave has finally reappeared.

JW is literally killing us on offense. He can't possibly continue his level of suckness - it's mathematically impossible. Well, maybe it is possible, but I'm still going with the "impossible" line to push my narrative: 2 for 23 from 3. He will get better, or Coach will make him stop shooting 3s. Either way, we suddenly get better. He is our best rebounder, and it's not close.

Jan 07, 2022 03:16 AM #32

@justanotherfan

“The best players on this team are perimeter guys. That means interior guys are on the floor to play hard, grab rebounds and dunk lobs. That’s it. They get few or no post touches because that’s not the strength of this team. Last night, Big Dave got going because he was pursuing every rebound. That has to continue. He has to understand that most of his offense will come from putbacks, so he better get on the glass on both ends. Same for Mitch. Same for whoever else gets minutes at the 5.“

Bingo

Jan 07, 2022 03:30 AM #33

@Jethro Agree with you on Remy. I think he will take off as you say whenever he hears that "it's his team," which makes it difficult since he is the new guy. With some of the softness and uncertainty we've seen lately from Ochai, I think he might welcome that from Remy.

Jan 07, 2022 04:36 AM #34

Man if Remy can become the talent the writers made the preseason POY in the league this team becomes one of the threats to win it all. Not sure it happens without him.

Jan 07, 2022 01:39 PM #35

He's not playing to his potential and there is several reasons for it. I think he has deferred to Och and CB but if this team is going far this season he's going to have to assume more of the Alpha role on this team. I think the team would easily get behind him too if he does

Jan 07, 2022 02:55 PM #36

@BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

He's not playing to his potential and there is several reasons for it. I think he has deferred to Och and CB but if this team is going far this season he's going to have to assume more of the Alpha role on this team. I think the team would easily get behind him too if he does

I think the same. While Och and CB have obviously been playing well, all-league all-American well, Remy is going to have to pick up his scoring and assume the leadership role that his personality almost dictates. I want to see Remy be a bit more selfish.

Jan 07, 2022 03:39 PM #37

@Marco

Yeah Remy has been too unselfish especially when he dribbles. He's rarely drawn contact which he can do easily with how he plays. He wants to make the spectacular pass which I get but its not helping himself or the team. I'm happy with his effort to please his Coach but its time to tighten up and do what he's good at. Especially with Ochai coming back to earth we need to see him step up

Jan 07, 2022 05:29 PM #38

@BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@Marco

Yeah Remy has been too unselfish especially when he dribbles. He's rarely drawn contact which he can do easily with how he plays. He wants to make the spectacular pass which I get but its not helping himself or the team. I'm happy with his effort to please his Coach but its time to tighten up and do what he's good at. Especially with Ochai coming back to earth we need to see him step up

Yup, but the question is really will he be allowed to? Sure seems as though he’s got a leash on at the moment.
I sure hope he can “unleash” himself and play more to his skill set.

Jan 07, 2022 06:30 PM #39

Self tells him to shoot more

Jan 07, 2022 07:13 PM #40

It took Malik Newman like 25 games before he finally "got it" so I'm personally not panicked. Outside of Josh Jackson I can't remember a single guy who ever came in and just was the perfect Bill Self player in both mentality and talent.

Jan 07, 2022 09:04 PM #41

@Kcmatt7 Newman also was after a year of sitting ie being with the team

Jan 07, 2022 09:12 PM #42

Agree JJ was remarkable. BAseline dunks on UK heads 4evA

Jan 07, 2022 09:16 PM #43

If we talk about kids who started off with a bang and don’t account for sitting BMac was pretty special

Jan 07, 2022 09:18 PM #44

And Xavier and oubre I think were on lesser teams to JJ but were close

Jan 07, 2022 10:06 PM #45

@approxinfinity said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

If we talk about kids who started off with a bang and don’t account for sitting BMac was pretty special

I firmly believe we win it all in 12 if Ben could’ve played

Jan 07, 2022 10:21 PM #46

@approxinfinity said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

And Xavier and oubre I think were on lesser teams to JJ but were close

Xavier was on the team that lost to Northern Iowa in the tournament and was a team that should've won the title as well as they were #1 most of the season and never ranked lower than 3rd at any point. For my money, Xavier Henry is by far the most underrated OAD to come through KU.

Jan 07, 2022 11:04 PM #47

@approxinfinity Bill messed with Oubre too much Imo. I thought he should have started day 1 and just let him figure out stuff on the court. But that's never been Bill's style (except with Grimes which is still weird tbh).

Jan 07, 2022 11:07 PM #48

@FarmerJayhawk Yea I'd bet if you replaced 17 Teahan minutes with BMac and we have a different ball game.

Jan 07, 2022 11:16 PM #49

BMac had an absurd year. Technically a FR but gotta think the off year helped.

Jan 07, 2022 11:17 PM #50

@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@approxinfinity Bill messed with Oubre too much Imo. I thought he should have started day 1 and just let him figure out stuff on the court. But that's never been Bill's style (except with Grimes which is still weird tbh).

!alt text ↗

Jan 07, 2022 11:19 PM #51

@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

It took Malik Newman like 25 games before he finally "got it" so I'm personally not panicked. Outside of Josh Jackson I can't remember a single guy who ever came in and just was the perfect Bill Self player in both mentality and talent.

I get what you're saying, but with Remy it is different. When the guy shoots, he more often than not scores. We don't want nor need for him to be the volume shooter/scorer that he was at ASU, but do need for him to lead this team and look for his shot more.

Jan 08, 2022 04:39 AM #52

@Kcmatt7 oubre was a bit lazy, I love the guy. The WSU game😩, no hustle!

Jan 08, 2022 08:58 PM #53

@wissox funny how others saw what he was and how he can impact this team yet Self decided to take it upon himself to completely change how remy plays taking shots via the media and complaining constantly when he’d have comments on good plays.

Bill doesn’t get our best players to play at their best he picks and chooses who he likes who are oddly never the best guys (traylor, Mostar, ect).

Remy came to Allen and torched us yet now he never looks to get downhill like Frank or graham would (prior to his knee even)....that says enough Self will look back at this team and still not seeing his blindness and lack of maximizing the talent he had

Oh and Baylor torched us that 2020 year in Allen we went back there and won a hard fought game. 2020 wasn’t guaranteed and Baylor just as much could say they could have won it and be back to back

Jan 08, 2022 09:02 PM #54

Do you ever think that's because Remy can't beat guys off the dribble that well? Not a strength of his.

Jan 08, 2022 09:02 PM #55

@kuballin10 Agreed about Baylor, but we seemingly had it turned up a notch. They would have been our biggest threat to winning it all.

I really don't understand your comment about Remy. Why would Bill do that to one of our players?

Jan 08, 2022 09:33 PM #56

@wissox gonna have to ask Bill your guess is as good as mine but everyone knew our O was a mirage with easy schedule.

Sure would be nice if we had ball dominate scoring and distributing Remy when we can’t buy a bucket

Jan 08, 2022 09:33 PM #57

Well Joe and Zach played today, how'd they look?

Jan 08, 2022 09:34 PM #58

Bill wants Remy to score, thinking otherwise is just dumb.

Jan 08, 2022 09:48 PM #59

@BShark scared to make a mistake or else they get the yank. You seen Tristan play defense and rim run at all this year? Different player when his coach instills confidence in him not the short leash one mistake against technical school in November and you’re pulled.

Joe scored 32 on a team Harris and our guards couldn’t get a shot off in the paint. Shows all the potential and now he looks so uncomfortable and not confident out there.

Who do you think did that?

Jan 08, 2022 09:49 PM #60

@BShark really? What about anything self has said this season early on and how remy’s played constantly passing left and right hardly looking for shots says Bill has encouraged it????

Bill has flat out said he takes bad shots at bad times and is all frustrated. Where you been all season?

Also - Self showing his ignorance fronting Harris with “he’s undefeated in summer ball that’s unheard of” literally had me rolling. Yeah summer ball translates to when the lights come on.

Zach we are told dominates in a practice but never gets any run so the whole show us in practice to get minutes is Bs for mr BS

Jan 08, 2022 09:55 PM #61

You are putting too much stock in one 9 game hot stretch against mostly bad competition by Yesufu.

Jan 08, 2022 09:59 PM #62

The far bigger issue for this team is defense, the piece are not there to make it a great defense either. Part of this is recruiting which obviously struggled in 19 and 20.

Jan 08, 2022 10:01 PM #63

@kuballin10 He wants Remy to score within the system. Dotson, Frank, Graham etc all scored within this system just fine.

Jan 08, 2022 10:01 PM #64

@BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

The far bigger issue for this team is defense, the piece are not there to make it a great defense either. Part of this is recruiting which obviously struggled in 19 and 20.

Agree. Not going to be a great defensive team. Need to score.

Jan 08, 2022 10:01 PM #65

@BShark what did he do against the best when the lights were the brightest? Apply your same logic and mine to our guys last year.

You probably played sports. A great coach is tough but instills confidence while wanting you to improve.

Billy never spoke well about Remy from day 1. Everyone’s talked about them “gelling” or each “giving a little”.

That’s all Bill’s fault. He should say we want remy’s D to catch up with his O. He’s so quick he should get 2-3 steals a game and control the game on both ends. We already know he can create just honing in the timing while staying aggressive.

Instead he pumps Harris’ summer gym record like it matters or anyone gives a crap but clearly Billy does.....

Meanwhile he trashed remy even when remy saved us one game it was negativity when asked

That’s just being an @$$ not a great coach I’d expect

Jan 08, 2022 10:21 PM #66

@BShark he does? Sure does talk like it because anything remy does on O is questioned.

Bills system is the problem so glad you brought it up. Reason he has minimal involvement in team USA stuff they know how he is and no nba talk in years. The warriors and modem ball has changed just like nfl has and even saban has accepted in college.

Remy will never know the system like 4 year guys and self’s system he’s so rigid in instead of letting guys get good shots within it with a bigger leash.

Harris can’t shoot a bad shot in selfs mind and Remy can’t take a good.

Dave can’t take a bad shot cause it’s in self’s system. Self was mad Dave wasn’t making shots but not Dave chucking up bricks.

The game now is open the floor and spacing. The inside opens it up on the outside is proven true every night the game is played.

Jan 08, 2022 10:21 PM #67

@BShark I agree with this as well. ISU and Tristan plays better (more aggressive) D and we look slow and unathletic on D because we are.

Jan 08, 2022 10:22 PM #68

Tristan has had a couple good games for ISU but otherwise meh, looks like the same Tristan to me.

Jan 08, 2022 10:24 PM #69

@BShark you’ve seen 10 minutes of isu Baylor I’d guess. I watched them in nyc he was night and day different. The aggression, look on his face, all over the floor with his wide wingspan. For that defense we agree on would be nice to have.

Jan 08, 2022 10:27 PM #70

I'm referring to the several games where he had 6 or less points.

Jan 08, 2022 10:45 PM #71

what the hell was that - -no fricken call. Harris got hit in the back

Jan 08, 2022 10:45 PM #72

Good GOD are you serious ?

Jan 08, 2022 11:06 PM #73

@BShark box score watching checking points my point is he’s playing great D, all over the court and getting dunks and put backs. The O isn’t ran through him and he’s excelling playing aggressive while here he made 1 mistake and was yanked.

Only tcu last year he played well and go figure he had a huge leash with other guys out...played loose

It’s all on coach he berates then but doesn’t build them up. His shtick is getting old.

Jan 08, 2022 11:26 PM #74

@kuballin10 I appreciate your take and its part of a natural tension that keeps it real.

The other side being necessary as well. He's one of the winningest coaches of the last decade. That's a pretty good schtick.

Jan 09, 2022 12:19 AM #75

@approxinfinity win percentage is nice but only one thing matters....titles
He no doubt wins regular season stuff but same titles as Scott Drew and about to be passed in the next 2-3 years I’d say. Wright, Roy, K....ect. It’s the reason Cal isn’t that great X’s and O’s But he gives his kids long leashes. Lose some in the regular season but be better prepared for the tourney which is more important.

One is improving the other is going backwards (Drew vs self).

Pride is a killer.

Jan 09, 2022 12:34 AM #76

I seen this on ESPN traile, now it was eith the 3rd - or the 5th straight loss for KU against a top 25 ranked team longest in Self's tenure - -not good

Jan 09, 2022 12:50 AM #77

When you literally tell teams you are throwing it inside to start the game the first 3-4 possessions and you dont have Doke....you deserve to lose.

Self said when they had Dok they’d walk into every gym knowing they could beat anyone. We don’t have him now but still trying to get easy buckets the problem with the self logic is the buckets due to the bucketgetter aren’t easy because the player isn’t that good (yes, I stole a word from this site bucketeers or bucketgetter)

Players see our style and see the favoritism for worse players but they are older or “run the system”. Self is at fault because he is arrogant enough to think his system is what wins when in realty it has been and always will be the players.

Jan 09, 2022 01:11 AM #78

@kuballin10 maybe if you're lucky he'll be banned.

Jan 09, 2022 01:38 AM #79

Nothing like having a hall of fame coach but knowing some new blood with a new system would help jolt us back to life.

Unc, uk and potentially duke may be down these next 4-5 years. We need to rack up another title at least. If self goes another 3-4 years without one and if we do get to the final four we get blown out throwing it inside while the other team lights us up from deep and plays aggressive penetrating and kicking out for “inside out offense” then yeah self reflection would be nice.

Jan 09, 2022 01:54 AM #80

@kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@approxinfinity win percentage is nice but only one thing matters....titles
He no doubt wins regular season stuff but same titles as Scott Drew and about to be passed in the next 2-3 years I’d say. Wright, Roy, K....ect. It’s the reason Cal isn’t that great X’s and O’s But he gives his kids long leashes. Lose some in the regular season but be better prepared for the tourney which is more important.

One is improving the other is going backwards (Drew vs self).

Pride is a killer.

I am not totally discounting what you say. I thought that Tristan should have had more playing time, ditto now Adams and Clemence. But am not on board with Self being replaced. Am on board with him being not so loyal to certain players while they are not producing, and making lineup changes when and if necessary.

Jan 09, 2022 02:37 AM #81

@Marco said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@approxinfinity win percentage is nice but only one thing matters....titles
He no doubt wins regular season stuff but same titles as Scott Drew and about to be passed in the next 2-3 years I’d say. Wright, Roy, K....ect. It’s the reason Cal isn’t that great X’s and O’s But he gives his kids long leashes. Lose some in the regular season but be better prepared for the tourney which is more important.

One is improving the other is going backwards (Drew vs self).

Pride is a killer.

I am not totally discounting what you say. I thought that Tristan should have had more playing time, ditto now Adams and Clemence. But am not on board with Self being replaced. Am on board with him being not so loyal to certain players while they are not producing, and making lineup changes when and if necessary.

can't agree with Adams & Clemence - -Adams is way to offensive challenged at this point to play extended minutes in Big 1 play & Clemence get tossed aside like a rag doll at this point and also is ANOTHER defensive liability , just not ready

Jan 09, 2022 07:05 AM #82

@kuballin10

I think your concept of the only thing that matters in this game is a NC is shortsighted and a negative view of the game. That is a great angle to take when you are a cynic and just want to propel your concepts ahead of a HOFr coach. Only one team wins it all every year and your approach basically says everyone else in college basketball sucks. It shows a complete inability to appreciate the game beyond this one single focus. You must have hated all KU basketball since 2008.

Your approach in here is nearing troll status.

Jan 09, 2022 02:55 PM #83

@drgnslayr Thanks for the response.

1) not trolling honest convo about the state of the program in regards to the ultimate goal each year as coaches/players everyone would say

2) What do you think of Boeheim? Self is version 2.0 great win percentage but only 1 title to his name. People talk about how difficult it is yet other coaches have 2 that people would say no way are better than Self and point at win percentage.

3) You’re right besides 2008 it’s been fun but never reaching the top sucks. That’s the ultimate goal Self would say and everyone else. I weight that more. Going 30-6 and beating up and 20 bad teams doesn’t impress me. Beating up on a bad big 12 bedsides 2-3 teams doesn’t impress me. Self hasn’t played his best players every year which is frustrating.

4) How many big 12 titles would you trade for 1-2 more ncaa titles? I’d trade 10 away. The streak is nice but if we were in the acc we wouldn’t have had it. It’s like Gonzaga is doing currently and not getting much respect. All of the sudden other big 12 teams do better in the ncaa and we might go a year or there now without winning the big 12 which doesn’t bother me if we excel in March.

5) Self isn’t adapting to the modern game and his defensive philosophy is brutal. The system he prioritizes over players versus the other way around. He for years plays lesser talented guys who know the system thus limiting the teams ceiling but also limiting the teams floor. We win a lot but not the big 12 and definitely not a title because of it.

6) This system is also effecting recruiting. Ask other guys in here or on TOS it’s well known in AAU circles how Self is. If I am Scott Drew I’m taking Akinjo at AU and showing how he’s allowed freedom at Baylor versus All American Remy and how he performed here. Self didn’t adapt his system to Remy and that was obvious as the first game Remy didn’t attempt the shot in a half. Same for additional games he isn’t looking to score and even get downhill it’s “run the offense don’t take a stupid shot Remy.”

7) This is not trolling but other coaches with better philosophies are getting big boy jobs. These coaches will win some Titles sooner as the game is changing. As Saban has learned he used to win 17-14 but now it’s 44-41. Have to adapt. With the best athletes we want MORE possessions not less. Win 81-78 not 52-49 (see Virginia if you want proof of that. They have 1 lucky title as many could say about us and then have some awful losses - worst in tourney and multiple awful ones every year due to their style ). Utilize your athletes and adjust the system not the other way around.

8) Stealing from poster on TOS regarding Self’s philosophy on O that’s poor and how awful we are on D with outdated philosophies. Self prioritized post feeders like Brady and praised him as the best player in the game often (similar to traylor or harris). Self builds up lower guys instead of building up our best players. It’s like Draymond Green having 8 boards 6 assists and Kerr saying he was the best player in the game. Unless he has a triple dub that is never said. He says Steph went off and did Steph things to carry us.

Instead of saying Harris was awesome with his 6 points, 2 steals and 3 assists ignoring his flops maybe encourage your horses (Och and Braun) and have a proper view of why you are winning and push to excel those players further that’s who will carry you.

“ NBA teams run way more pnr and pnp than post ups. We run way more post ups. So we either run outdated offense through our bigs or we don’t have talented enough bigs to run more modern offense with our bigs. It’s probably a little bit of both, but either way, it’s an issue on offense. Self wants to run post up offense through his bigs, even though they’re not even that great at it, and then compounds the issue by insisting on playing Harris all the time because he’s the best post feeder, despite the fact that he lacks offensive skill outside of that. It’s actually incredible we’ve been as good offensively as we have, but as I forecasted, it’s not sustainable because Agbaji and Braun couldn’t maintain their level of play.
This isn’t even the fundamental problem with our team, it’s just the one thing that everyone chose to take out of my post. The post offense is irrelevant because our defense is so bad. I also commented on that original post that Baylor is a much better defensive team than us. That’s the major issue and what will hold us back.”

Jan 09, 2022 04:38 PM #84

@kuballin10

There is no logical merit in talking about trading conference titles for NCAA titles. Not only can we not do it, but I don't think there is a logical strategy where we intentionally not care about how we play in conference and have that help us win NCAA titles.

I've aired my criticism on Self and staff for years. Sometimes that has involved strategy questions... like questioning hi/lo at any cost.

My biggest criticism remains... Self's ability to fire up his troops. He is such a mellow man (except sometimes yelling in the huddle). For example... in that TT game, where was the urgency? I only saw it for a minute after Brawn stole the ball at the end and slammed it. He briefly turned up his game. I see a big difference in our teams over teams like Jay Wright's. Everything we do works so much better when guys play with urgency. I have always challenged this and probably always will.

We have a great group of guys, and I think our coaches want to win. But I don't think they know how to turn up our guys. We currently aren't playing at a level of urgency where we can defend and interupt another team's offense. This was on clear display in the TT game... how TT disrupted our offense but we didn't disrupt theres. Our talent level is higher so we made the game closer.

Jan 09, 2022 05:25 PM #85

@drgnslayr I can agree with the turning up the players part for sure. Jaybate used to write about amp games vs non-amp games. Which I never really bought fully but maybe partially.

The part I do buy about that theory is that self saves a little something for the games he thinks will be the toughest. Wrinkles as jay are used to say. Different sets, strategies and mindsets for the top opponents. We didn’t see much of that vs Tech maybe because he’s saving stuff for Baylor and UT.

I think self relies on players to bring effort and pump each other up. He often relies on an emotional leader on the floor. I think about graham, and doke in recent years.

I feel like Remy is that guy this year but he’s currently injured. I had hopes that Braun could step up and do it but he hasn’t consistently. We’ve known Och is to cool calm and collected, Dave is too wild, Mitch is too old (jk), and Harris just isn’t it.

Remy looked hobbled vs tech but you could see when he was in, even the way he passed the ball added zip and flash and emotion into the game. Unfortunately without him on the floor right now the guys seem to be lacking that urgency that they will need to take this team to its peak. If they find it, I still believe they can be good enough to win the big 12 AND the national title. And I definitely agree there’s no reason not to try to win both.

Jan 09, 2022 07:00 PM #86

@benshawks08

I know you have been around long enough to remember my constant rants about lacking a chip! ;)

Jan 09, 2022 11:34 PM #87

@benshawks08 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I feel like Remy is that guy this year but he’s currently injured. I had hopes that Braun could step up and do it but he hasn’t consistently. We’ve known Och is to cool calm and collected, Dave is too wild, Mitch is too old (jk), and Harris just isn’t it.

I think Pettiford is that guy. Can’t wait to see him run this show.

Jan 10, 2022 02:47 PM #88

@tis4tim

Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

Jan 10, 2022 03:42 PM #89

@BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@tis4tim

Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

Really hoping this doesn't derail him. Hoping against hope he can end up the starter next year.

Jan 10, 2022 04:05 PM #90

@BShark Me too. Pettiford is key next season, Harris would be good coming in off the bench - a two-headed point, if you will. Yesufu will be important as well, as either a two starting or first off the bench. We'll be young, but with alot of depth and athleticism inside and out.

Jan 10, 2022 04:57 PM #91

@BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

Agreed. I know @BShark was high on this guy from the start and in the limited time I've watched him, I think he has "it". Every move seems to have a purpose and he seems to ooze confidence. It just feels like something good is going to happen whenever he touches the ball. Looking forward to getting him back and giving us that spark we've been missing.

Jan 10, 2022 05:29 PM #92

@BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@tis4tim

Definitely missed him in this stretch of Remy being injured.

Really hoping this doesn't derail him. Hoping against hope he can end up the starter next year.

Even if Self loved him more then his own son at this point Bobby will have a limited role whenever he comes back unless injury changes that. Self has clearly shown he doesn't trust anyone that hasn't played here 5 years already or isn't 25

Jan 10, 2022 06:15 PM #93

Bobby has minutes awaiting him if he gets healthy. If.

Self has already indicated he will be one of our next great guards. So it would be a huge mistake to bench him throughout this year and basically waste a year for him to season with experience. Bobby has monster upside!

Jan 10, 2022 08:28 PM #94

I think they need Bobby back in a bad way because Self trusts Bobby. And that gives them the depth to press more and shorten the shot clock. Which is desperately needed with our poor interior defense.

Jan 10, 2022 08:51 PM #95

@Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I think they need Bobby back in a bad way because Self trusts Bobby. And that gives them the depth to press more and shorten the shot clock. Which is desperately needed with our poor interior defense.

we have an interior defense ? lol

Jan 11, 2022 04:55 AM #96

Self literally said per Sam Lance - I wish I played kj and Zach more early on.

He was the only guy on the planet not seeing that one straight.

Zach looks good against Msu our toughest comp all year under the bright lights of MSG and proceeds to never play real meaningful minutes when we got back to Lawrence.

He does this every year I get being “stubborn” but now I’m starting to think he’s losing it.

Jan 11, 2022 05:20 AM #97

@kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

Self literally said per Sam Lance - I wish I played kj and Zach more early on.

He was the only guy on the planet not seeing that one straight.

Zach looks good against Msu our toughest comp all year under the bright lights of MSG and proceeds to never play real meaningful minutes when we got back to Lawrence.

He does this every year I get being “stubborn” but now I’m starting to think he’s losing it.

If by losing it you mean got Remy to entirely buy in you nailed it

Jan 11, 2022 05:12 PM #98

@FarmerJayhawk if by buying in you mean becoming a minimal offensive threat who just passes it around the perimeter and hardly looks to penetrate because he’s gotta run the offense or he’s yanked.....and playing less minutes when fully healthy than Harris.....

Yeah I stand by my claims he’s not adjusting/losing it and his ignorance that he had to “change” remy was an unfathomably bad decision

Jan 11, 2022 06:27 PM #99

@kuballin10 Remy had to change. The point is to win games right? Did Remy win anything of significance at ASU the way he was playing? I guess we could shoot for an 11 seed and first round exit if we just let Remy fire at will and not guard anyone.

Jan 11, 2022 07:49 PM #100

Remy had to change what exactly?
He realizes he isn’t the number 1 scoring option because of Ochai but they can absolutely be a two or three headed monster with Braun. The problem is that was never presented or encouraged by Self with everything said in the media.

Remy’s a great kid and it was assumed he would come in and shoot 20 times a game and be this ball hog...why? You don’t think Remy’s never played on a team where he isn’t the best player or that he can’t recognize he doesn’t have to get 25 every night to have a chance but he can get 15 with 6-7 assists?

That’s where the staff flat out sucked. They made assumptions and any bad shot he took in practice they tried to act like they had to break him of this awful habit which was aggression and being an alpha.

Sure would be nice to have an alpha guard for the season and a tourney but unfortunately Self massively screwed his mind games with the key player up and reaps what he sows.

Jan 11, 2022 08:00 PM #101

I think CB and Remy have both been a bit unselfish. But better than being a ball stop.

Remy has quite honestly banged up for most of the season. Been nursing both a back and knee injury for like 8 of the 14 games I think. I'd like to revisit this in 2-3 weeks once Remy's knee starts feeling better.

Jan 11, 2022 08:27 PM #102

@kuballin10 effort on defense and shot selection. Expected by who? That paragraph is a mess. I sure didn’t expect him to come fire 20+ shots a game. Remy himself said he had to come become a real PG for his pro prospects. If he wasn’t going to change at all he might as well had stayed in the draft and started his career in Moldova or someplace.

And as @Kcmatt7 wisely pointed out, he’s been hurt almost all year and that’s really affected him. Broadly speaking, we’re going to be fine, there’s always a KU fanbase meltdown around this time of year then we go on a stretch of winning 12 of 13 and everything is fine. Unless you’re one of those fans who likes losing 91-90 more than winning 60-59 (they do exist, including a fairly prominent Twitter account).

Jan 11, 2022 09:48 PM #103

@Kcmatt7

This. Remy is not healthy right now. Anyone can see that while watching him play and the minutes or lack of minutes he is logging. Of course everyone would like to see Remy be more assertive, but until he is healthy we are not going to see that.

Jan 11, 2022 11:16 PM #104

Does anyone remember when the producers of Monday Night Football brought in comedian Dennis Miller to be a color guy? They thought his quick wit and somewhat irreverent approach would be great entertainment for viewers. Not long after, he was told to tone it down and not speak so much, pretty much negating the entire point of bringing him into the booth in the first place.

This is kind of how I feel about the Remy situation with Self. Why bring in this charismatic, free-wheeling shooter then force him to play within a system that pretty much neuters his strengths? I get that Self is a defense-first guy, but you have to let guys be who they are to some degree.

Jan 12, 2022 02:12 AM #105

I’ll address my poor sentence structure in another message but did Och coming down and going 1 on 5 count as a good shot?

If remy did that he’d be yanked. Self plays favorites and it’s killed this teams title chances for years.

Jan 12, 2022 04:20 AM #106

@kuballin10 you’re acting like Remy is playing 5 mpg.

He’s getting 25 minutes and will get 30 mpg + once he’s back healthy

Jan 12, 2022 04:40 AM #107

@Kcmatt7 25 mpg....you know there’s 40 minutes played right? You remember how remy was supposed to come here and be the alpha? That attacking mentality.

Check what senior Frank and senior Graham’s mpg were and get back to me.

Before remy was hurt he still wasn’t planning even close to the 35 mpg he should have been.

When Harris is getting more minutes than the stud transfer and all American then something is drastically wrong with the guy calling the shots.

Jan 12, 2022 10:53 AM #108

@kuballin10 but seniors Frank and Devonte in consecutive years both played on teams that seriously lacked depth. Even when a hundred percent healthy Remy probably won't go over 30 mpg, and why would he?

Jan 13, 2022 02:26 PM #109

Our two best players are taking the majority of the shots. Talk about stunted growth!

Jan 13, 2022 02:44 PM #110

@BShark

boom shackalacka off the top rope

Jan 13, 2022 02:53 PM #111

During his stints against the cyclones KJ impressed me with his heads up attitude and understanding of Self's game. He was alert and moved quickly around the paint. PT for him will make us better. I'm not down on Mitch as much over the last few games. If Dave loses his hesitation on both ends and if he could make a freaking few more bunnies that would help. Shooting air balls from two feet out explains the 47% FG rate. OMFG! and my better half says honey the grandkids are going hear you. They live in CO so she may have a point. Wilson is going to be better and better so I'm going to get off of his ass to lighten the load.

Jan 13, 2022 03:05 PM #112

@BeddieKU23

Boom Shacka lacka lacka from "I wanna take you higher" by Sly and the family Stone makes for a clever and positive post.

Jan 13, 2022 03:22 PM #113

I'm a fan of Remy. A big part is his cheerleading ability out on the floor. We need energy and emotion. Anything to help our guys play with enthusiasm.

But I'm not sure how he fits. Essentially, he is a freshman in Lawrence. He's stepping on a team where guys have been here for a while. I don't think his game has meshed with the rest of the team yet. Players have to figure out other players. The transition hasn't been smooth... plus his health is in question.

Right now our team is a hodge podge. Who is our PG and can he run the team? We need our offense to flow. I'm not seeing that happen with our starting 5, let alone, when we start substituting. Obviously... seeing Self jiggle the lineup so much indicates he's searching for flow. It isn't just about a player coming in and getting some points.

Where we are is frustrating. We have enough talent on this team to become a solid contender... but we play like a November team. We better keep our fingers crossed in hopes we don't hit some bad luck, like injuries come on. Our current margin for victory is razor-thin. We are capable of losing to every team in our league. Hate to say this... but with a little bad luck we could face the worst results since Self arrived here.

We had some crude play in recent years and Self turned to defense to save us. We appropriately named it "bad ball" because of the ugliness of games. I don't see this team being capable of defending enough for us to sweat through league games and come out on top.

Unless we show an evolutionary breakthrough soon... I remain pessimistic about our chances this year.

I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

Jan 13, 2022 03:42 PM #114

@drgnslayr

I think Remy fits well with this bunch but your right he's essentially a freshman here. Remember he wasn't here for offseason and even when he got here to start the fall semester he was hurt. It always makes some difference when you don't have chemistry developed with teammates and coaches. We've certainly seen that even Remy and Self have that give and take relationship going. Self pushing Remy to be a bit of a different guard out there then he was at ASU. Perhaps that would have been all ironed out before if they spent a full summer together etc but its spilled over into real games.

We've seen what this team is when Remy isn't on the floor and its not pretty. Having that secondary playmaker on the floor makes or breaks the offense really because Och & Braun are not creating plays on their own. It puts Harris in a tough spot to be the guy creating for everyone else which isn't his strength.

What I saw in the Iowa St game was Harris & Pettiford afraid to take perimeter shots when they had opportunity especially when defenses were sagging off. If that was Remy getting those looks he's taking the shot. Remy really helps spread the floor and defenses respect him so he doesn't get a ton of open looks running our normal stuff. If the last couple games are an indication of anything I'd say Remy is the most important player in the lineup to creating the kind of flow we want in the offense

Jan 13, 2022 03:43 PM #115

@BShark that seems like an ignorant comment especially at this time.

How’s the team look? Are the majority of our players playing their best ball? Are they maximizing their potential? We need all 5 guys a threat to score and a three headed monster to win the big 12.

How’s Dave look? Does he look like end of year Dave who carried us the second half against the groves bro’s?

Ochai should shoot the most
Braun and Remy 2a and 2b (Braun disappears against better athletes and he’s too hot and cold).

Jan 13, 2022 03:45 PM #116

@Marco that’s just wrong and ridiculous.

Frank played 33, 33 and 36 his last three years here.

Dtae’ played 32, 35 and 37

Get out of here with our best lead guard shouldn’t play 30 mpg this is asinine

Jan 13, 2022 03:48 PM #117

@drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I'm a fan of Remy. A big part is his cheerleading ability out on the floor. We need energy and emotion. Anything to help our guys play with enthusiasm.

But I'm not sure how he fits. Essentially, he is a freshman in Lawrence. He's stepping on a team where guys have been here for a while. I don't think his game has meshed with the rest of the team yet. Players have to figure out other players. The transition hasn't been smooth... plus his health is in question.

Right now our team is a hodge podge. Who is our PG and can he run the team? We need our offense to flow. I'm not seeing that happen with our starting 5, let alone, when we start substituting. Obviously... seeing Self jiggle the lineup so much indicates he's searching for flow. It isn't just about a player coming in and getting some points.

Where we are is frustrating. We have enough talent on this team to become a solid contender... but we play like a November team. We better keep our fingers crossed in hopes we don't hit some bad luck, like injuries come on. Our current margin for victory is razor-thin. We are capable of losing to every team in our league. Hate to say this... but with a little bad luck we could face the worst results since Self arrived here.

We had some crude play in recent years and Self turned to defense to save us. We appropriately named it "bad ball" because of the ugliness of games. I don't see this team being capable of defending enough for us to sweat through league games and come out on top.

Unless we show an evolutionary breakthrough soon... I remain pessimistic about our chances this year.

I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

Agree that Remy is the emotional leader on the floor which is a little sad considering al the experience returning to this team. I do think Och is trying to develop that aspect of his game but might go against his natural tendencies. The brightest spot in that development WAS the end of that ISU game. After that last ISU bucket, he ran to the ball and DEMANDED it. Not something we've seen a lot of from Och. Yes, in the end he did give it up to Harris of all people to make the final play, but Och initiated which I think is key. I'm sure everyone thought Ochai would take the last shot which is why Harris was able to get to the rim (well, close to it at least). We also saw him trying to will himself and the team to victory. I think back to the deep three off the pass at the top of the key from Braun, and the pull up jumper at the elbow after a spin move to get open. He's trying to learn when to take what the d gives and when to take over and initiate. It's not an easy balance to find.

I've been in the camp for a while that believes this team's fate is unfortunately tied to the ability of Dave to produce. If Och can find that next level where he can truly impose his will on a game, that might not be true. I'd love for that development to be on d as well but one step at a time.

Bill thinks Och is the one. His comments after that game make that clear. Leading a team is a big job and Och is learning it's about more than making 47% of your 3 pointers. He'd be my pick too. He isn't a GREAT leader yet but there's still time and I'm taking that ISU game as evidence that he is making progress.

Jan 13, 2022 05:49 PM #118

@kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@Marco that’s just wrong and ridiculous.

Frank played 33, 33 and 36 his last three years here.

Dtae’ played 32, 35 and 37

Get out of here with our best lead guard shouldn’t play 30 mpg this is asinine

The reason that they played so many minutes as seniors - Frank 36 Devonte 37 - is because we had no depth. Remy is not going to play 37 mpg, period. If you believe such a reality to be asinine, that would be your problem not mine. Btw I said that Remy would probably not play over 30 mpg, didn't say that he shouldn't play 30. Why would you play him for much more than that? What, no one else gets playing time?

Jan 13, 2022 05:53 PM #119

If Remy were deserving of 35+ minutes a game, he'd be playing that much. He is not close to Frank, Graham etc

Jan 13, 2022 06:18 PM #120

I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

Jan 13, 2022 06:43 PM #121

Not a good comparison... Frank and Devonte versus Remy. F and D had no good backups. If they had, they would have played much less. You could see the wear and tear on those guys as the year progressed and I seriously doubt Remy's physique can go that long in the Big 12 without even more injuries.

Beyond that... Self looks for flow on the court. He'll keep guys out there usually when the flow is good. He will also pull guys that clearly need a blow.

I believe our issues are much deeper than whether Remy puts in 30 or 35 minutes.

Now that Bobby is back... he will have to get some minutes. He needs that for future seasoning. Listen to Self... Bobby is the future at KU!

Jan 13, 2022 06:48 PM #122

@rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

That's why we saw KJ "start" while playing 10 minutes.

Jan 13, 2022 06:58 PM #123

@BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

That's why we saw KJ "start" while playing 10 minutes.

I agree but he also played the last 30 seconds as well.

Jan 13, 2022 06:59 PM #124

@BShark said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

That’s why we saw KJ “start” while playing 10 minutes.

I think it is more about Self willing to try anything to get production out of the 5. He knew starting him would bring extra energy... and this team needs to play with more energy!

I thought KJ played with great poise! He was energized but for the most part in control from playing too sped up.

This team needs a spark! I'm trying to stay hopeful because dropping a bunch of games now would create a disaster. Hopefully Remy will be back soon and Bobby can get comfortable.

For now, I expect Self will keep rotating at the 5 because it gives some motivation for those guys to earn minutes.

Jan 13, 2022 07:20 PM #125

CRIMSON/BLUE GLASSES ON:

Okay... I've been offering up doom and gloom. Here is my best attempt at a bright, sunny season!

Many great things happen as we go on a winning streak and do not lose anymore games this year. On to the National Title!

  1. Remy gets his health back and comes on big to lead this team! He takes a few more shots and lifts his stat line, making teams honest and forced to guard him out high.

  2. JalenW goes on a scoring spree! Next game he gets hot and decides he belongs near the top of our stat sheet in points, while silently dominating the boards, too.

  3. Dajuan tightens up his game.. takes more open shots and finishes at the rim when it is there. He improves his assist/TO ratio by cutting down on mistakes while being a better playmaker.

  4. Big D gets it together and becomes Mr. C (consistency) for this team by averaging near a double-double every game while steadily improving his defense.

  5. Och finally realizes his need to become a true volume scorer. He figures out it takes more than just him creating his own offense so he stays late in practice with other teammates to develop more opportunities for him to score. He definitely yearns to get the ball at crunch time, and becomes a deadeye when given the chance.

  6. CB makes the adjustment on offense as he now plays against tougher competition so he becomes the Superman he was early on in the season by challenging Och for scoring stats every game... 20+.

  7. KJ and Mitch step up their roles with the goal of consistency set down by Big D in the post. Suddenly we have depth, production, and consistency in the post!

  8. Bobby comes on as the season progresses. His body heals and his speed increases! He makes the most of his minutes and gives us needed energy on the court. One of the pieces in helping this team speed up their game!

  9. JaCol becomes comfortable in his role as assassin! Comes off the bench and averages 10 a game in limited minutes.

  10. Quality team play finally arrives! Our D tightens up. Guys start guarding and weakside help is there. Players stop making mistakes on switches. Players seal off the boards. High energy on defense forces teams out of running their stuff (like TT does). On offense... guys start setting off-ball screens to help each other. 1 thru 4 drives the ball. Our post player mixes it up from running a little back to the basket offense to popping out for high ball screens. How about mid range screens? Everything runs well because we keep HIGH ENERGY throughout the game! The body language of our guys is very positive! Heads are up, smiles, high fives, encouraging each other... even our bench becomes totally animated as we kick the crap out of everyone!

Okay... lets make that happen!

Jan 13, 2022 08:35 PM #126

@drgnslayr I honestly think if 2 or 3 of those happen, this team can win the big 12 and half or more has KU contending for a title. The team just isn't THAT far away and as tech showed on Tuesday, no team is unbeatable.

Jan 13, 2022 09:30 PM #127

@benshawks08 @drgnslayr agreed if 1,2 and 4 happen 11-7 goes to 13-4 in my mind real quick.

Jalen was so good to start last year and he’s been awful shooting the ball this year. I didn’t know it was possible to be that bad after last year he shot it fine.

Dave is the mystery if he could have some confidence it’d help. He was right in the middle of the huddle locked on coach at the end of the game that he wasn’t even in. That’s solid character really hope he succeeds.

Jan 13, 2022 11:23 PM #128

@drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

Winner, winner chicken dinner. The group consisting of Och, Braun, Dave, and Jalen need to show us something. I need to see some badass.

Jan 13, 2022 11:26 PM #129

@Jethro said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

@drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I really like this team! Maybe someone needs to spike the water jug with testosterone (joke). Anything to bring out some alpha in all our guys.

Winner, winner chicken dinner. The group consisting of Och, Braun, Dave, and Jalen need to show us something. I need to see some badass.

You and me both Jethro. I wanna see some bad ass - -I don't give a flyin rats ass if they DO have a little bit of an attitude , like you said Alpha. - I want to see where the guys almost let opposing teams -you don't belong of the Court with us We need that person that refuses to let us lose - -that edge

Jan 14, 2022 12:54 AM #130

@rockchalkwyo said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

I also want to point out that when Frank and Devonte were here, transfer rules and transfer probability was nothing as it is today. Kids want to play more otherwise they’re out. Self is balancing that as well.

Great point about the new transfer rules. Definitely something that every coach now needs to think about.

Jan 16, 2022 07:44 PM #131

Late addition:

1 1. Joseph adds a spark with his quickness allowing us to run fast through all 40 minutes!

Jan 16, 2022 08:39 PM #132

@drgnslayr said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

Late addition:

1 1. Joseph adds a spark with his quickness allowing us to run fast through all 40 minutes!

He also might have a bit of dare I say it, a chip?? After he gave up that ugly turn over he worked his butt off to make up for it.

Jan 16, 2022 08:54 PM #133

@benshawks08 loved that possession. Showed an extra gear and intensity. Want the kid on the court when we absolutely need a stop.