🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Okay... First... I think Remy proved many of us armchair quarterbacks wrong. Including myself. I didn't think he would come back and play any kind of real part in our season. WRONG! I seriously doubt we would have made it to the Sweet 16 (again) without his "Type A" personality! He came out there and he decided to make it known he was on the court. I don't know how many games ahead he can swing like this... but what would really be great is if the other guys on the team adopted his "Type A" personality for 4 more games!

I want to personally apologize to Bill Self and Remy Martin... when I threw my hat in on the "Remy didn't work out" train of thought.

If we do win a NC this year... and it is largely because of Remy's aggressiveness... will AFH be flying a Remy banner with a retired number? What is the record for few minutes/points and such a designation?

Now... on to something else...

WTF?! Is this 1984?

!notremy.jpg ↗

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/03/march-madness-2022-kansas-basketball-creighton-basketball-remy-martin-ncaam ↗

Someone tell me I'm hallucinating...

@drgnslayr right there with you and honestly happy to be wrong. Seems like his coach and his teammates love seeing type a Remy assert himself on the court. Would agree that I hope Och doesn’t permanently revert to playing second fiddle. Braun will show up at some point. Right? I think that might be my favorite part of us getting to the sweet sixteen the way we did. Self was not joking or posturing at all when he said this team still has another gear. Our best players haven’t even played well yet.

Looking forward to see what Dave can do against a traditional big next game.

And maybe Remy keeps it going. MOP is a rafters spot. Right? I mean. If the dude wins Kansas a title what else do you do?

Braun MUST start shooting more 3’s for the Hawks to be successful deeper into the tourney, IMHO. And I believe Och must reassert himself. Thanks for listening!

@drgnslayr I've been trying to tell ya for months now that Remy’s gonna help :)
Nobody believed me :(
That or I guessed on the correct side of 50-50!

Who knows the real deal with Self and Remy? Besides the non-hug, I noticed that when Remy came out of the Creighton game at one point he walked by a standing Self and looked at him. Self ignored him and looked down court. It was a point where a coach should have said something encouraging, like "way to go." I don't get it. Maybe Self's slights are just meant to keep Remy more even-tempered, less exhuberate. ??????

@stoptheflop said in NOT Remy?!:

Who knows the real deal with Self and Remy? Besides the non-hug, I noticed that when Remy came out of the Creighton game at one point he walked by a standing Self and looked at him. Self ignored him and looked down court. It was a point where a coach should have said something encouraging, like "way to go." I don't get it. Maybe Self's slights are just meant to keep Remy more even-tempered, less exhuberate. ??????

ten·sion
/ˈtenSHən/

noun

2.
mental or emotional strain.

@stoptheflop said in NOT Remy?!:

Who knows the real deal with Self and Remy? Besides the non-hug, I noticed that when Remy came out of the Creighton game at one point he walked by a standing Self and looked at him. Self ignored him and looked down court. It was a point where a coach should have said something encouraging, like "way to go." I don't get it. Maybe Self's slights are just meant to keep Remy more even-tempered, less exhuberate. ??????

Remy tried to hug him, and Bill was like "what the hell are you doing"? Remy did something awkward, and Bill had a normal reaction. I don't see many coaches hugging their players during the game, so I wouldn't classify that as "tension".

Remy doesn't seem like he has a "conventional" basketball personality... but maybe that's a good thing! It looks like he attempts to build the love and emotions in a positive way and I give him credit for that! And if there is any method possible that will lift our guys to play at a higher level... bring it on!

Does anyone have a comment on the ESPN plagiarism?

With Remy's recent help, do you all see us as a real contender for a national championship? Can we knock down the Zags?

@drgnslayr

If we make it that far I'll believe we can do anything. Matchup wise I think Gonzaga (as I've said for months) is the worst matchup for KU.

Some hope: With how Gonzaga has played in its first two games I'd say their chances of making the finals have diminished. Georgia St gave them a game until midway in the 2nd half after their big went down with injury and they just couldn't guard Timme/Holmgren in the last 10 minutes. Memphis had them down 10 at halftime and it took a heck of a comeback to gut out that victory as well. Conclusion: they haven't looked like the #1 overall seed so far. Their defense has looked leaky while the offense and tempo they play with has been as advertised.

Who guards Timme? We've played against him before and he ate our lunch. Who guards Holmgren? Every team says the same thing. Holmgren is the rim protector we fear to see camping the lane. And he'll tap the ball to himself, dribble the length of the floor like a guard and dunk on you. So rare to see in a player. I also think Nembhard would be a bad matchup for Harris/Remy. His size at the position makes him a difficult matchup. Basically Gonzaga would have the advantage in the post and at the PG position and that's tough to overcome. Perhaps Remy has another gear (from the one he's already at) and forces Self to play him even more then he is right now.

As a team Gonzaga is Top 10 in tempo, they play fast and they are used to doing it at a high level. Transition defense would be a huge concern for me on any missed shot. We know this KU team likes to play fast and in transition and perhaps that style actually evens out other advantages I think Gonzaga has. It's been a while since a team tried to run consistently against KU and I'm not sure what our response would be to that as the game wore on.

@BeddieKU23

I was thinking the Zags were vulnerable until watching the Memphis game. I had that game circled to be the game where they went down because I thought the athleticism of Memphis would be too much. And it looked like that for most of the game until Timme carried his team. I don't see anyone stopping his game moving forward.

Can they lose? Anyone can lose... but will they?

What about us beating the Zags? Hmmmm... well, we needed a game of almost perfect FT shooting, dominant boards, and very low TOs to squeak by the Bluejays.

What we need is what Self mentioned... that one more gear! I know what he is talking about. It's finally working hard and playing together on defense for 40 minutes. Then converting that defense to offense on the other end with a mostly open-court offense... on the run off a rebound or steal. We've seen sparks of this and when it happens we blow out our opponents!

Happened upon this just now on CBS re-ranking the Sweet #16. We wouldn't be where we are withOUT Remy:

2 (Current seed)
Kansas
All three of the No. 1 seeds left in the tournament escaped a No. 9 seed in the second round by single digits with Kansas' seven-point win against Creighton as the largest margin of the trio. Creighton was a 30.8% 3-point shooting team on the year, so when the Jays started raining it in from downtown (12-for-28 to finish the game), the statistical anomaly appeared to be setting up for another Big 12 No. 1 seed to fall. Remy Martin's emergence has become the X-factor in Kansas' title hopes, and his 20 points in the second round are part of the reason this team is still in the tournament.
Original NCAA Tournament seed: 3

And there's this:

10
Providence
There's an argument to move Providence up ahead of both Texas Tech and UCLA based on combined margin (37 points) of the Friars' two wins. Ultimately, the original seed line order remained with some of the positives of a 28-point win in the second round being offset by the context of the opponent being a No. 12 seed Richmond team that would not have made the field as an at-large selection. Ignoring silly ranking debates, Providence fans should love what they saw in Buffalo as the Friars held a pair of upset darlings under 60 points to advance to the Sweet 16 for first time since 1997. Original NCAA Tournament seed: 15

@drgnslayr

Despite Memphis having athletes I was surprised to see the game going the way it did. I think Gonzaga suffered in some way from the same issues we had against Creighton- all the pressure was on KU/Zaga to perform and it certainly appeared that both teams were tight and not playing to their strengths for a portion of the game. To both teams credit they were able to adjust and make the winning plays to win but neither game was easy.

The thing that stuck out to me early in the KU game was that Ochai Agbaji did not seem engaged in the game. It felt like the team kind of played off that energy until Remy became a difference maker for large stretches. I also thought Dajuan was not the catalyst we needed at the PG spot with the way they were hedging the post and playing way off him. Then as the game went on we saw CB, Jalen & others get involved and getting more relaxed. I really didn't think our defense was poor, Creighton just shot out of their mind like Kentucky did to us in Allen in late January. It's really difficult to beat teams that shoot way above their pay grade as Creighton did. I thought Gonzaga got punched in the mouth pretty good that first half and then they adjusted and pulled it out with Timme being a huge factor as you mentioned. Nembhard was also a big reason they advanced as well. But I did leave their game thinking they are a bit vulnerable going forward and they will have to play a lot better to advance. Perhaps my expectation was out of place with that game.

I will say this, I'm confident our guys got that pressure game out of the way because I don't think they played above their "b" level game and still found a way to win. We got exposed playing "big" and had to adjust and survived a team that was motivated for the upset given their injuries. Our best players made winning plays and was the difference. But we need more from Ochai going forward and we should expect more. I was a bit disappointed for a while until he made some winning plays late.

I'd say the keys to potentially beating Gonzaga would be Ochai playing at his All-American level, getting consistent production from our starters and having that x-factor off the bench in Remy ready to score. Defensively I really don't know the answer other then forcing them to miss shots, forcing them below their averages and rebounding the ball well. Baylor had the formula for them last year when they had a better team overall but I think this Gonzaga team has the x-factor in Holmgren that no other team can match. When Timme plays at his highest level I'm not sure he's defendable either. I have a ton of respect for those two players. All hypotheticals at this point. We've seen KU's defense really buckle down when they want to and I would hope that kind of defensive effort is there in the biggest game. All hypotheticals at this point

To opposing teams, Remy is like facing a fastball pitcher the night after dealing with a knuckleballer.

The keys to beating Gonzaga are the same as when UConn beat Kentucky in 2014, Nova beat UNC in 2016 and Baylor beat Gonzaga last year. Good three-point shooting is a must, getting easy buckets in transition and playing in up-tempo negates height advantage, and of course how you play your interior defense is also extremely important. Somethings that Villanova did extremely well against North Carolina is post denial by fronting the post and having good ball pressure on the entry pass. You have to make timely shots, spread the floor, run and gun, and don’t have sloppy turnovers. As we have discussed for years, small ball has a number of advantages against taller teams, which have nothing to do about good or bad matchups. Some of the tall and long dominant teams from the last decade or two have many times not one and have been defeated by a small ball team. If we get that far, I would hope to see some of the tactics and strategies that I have disclosed in this post and some of what we have seen from this team at numerous times this year.

If you've never coached you will never understand why Coach Self isn't high on Remy. Coaches keep a running tally on winning vs losing plays. With that, they calculate internally a ceiling and floor for the player and base trust on all of that. Remy defensively has a low ceiling right now. He's the type of player that would need a couple of years minimum to get Self. The Remy/Harris situation seems very similar to Sherron(freshman)/RussRob. At different times we need one and sometimes we need both. Without Sherron's explosiveness, we don't win in 2008. The difference now is that Jalen, Christian, and even Och are more inconsistent offensively than the 2008 guys.

@BigBad I disagree largely with the notion that he has a low ceiling. Yes, a player to have a high ceiling does have to have good fundamentals and skills on both sides of the ball, but he does things on offense that no one on that team can do and you can tell that he is giving more effort onto the defensive side of the ball. Is he great defensively? Absolutely not, but he is putting in the effort to guard and right now that’s the best we will get. To me, it is a no-brainer to have him please significant minutes. He was an absolute star at Arizona State And, as Greg McDermott pointed out, has made much progress overall. He is a net positive overall for the team, and that may be enough to get us W’s in two more games. Only time will tell.

Defense is our Achilles... That is never proven more than the Bluejay game. We could have shot better from the field but otherwise, we can't expect to do better. We dominated boards, we shot the lights out from the line, we had almost no TOs... we dominated possessions!

Teams like the Zags feast on teams like ours. Turning the game into a game where we try just to outscore our poor defense will not get it done versus the Zags.

Yes, I sound negative... but listen to Self. We need that gear we haven't hit yet. And though Remy brings us a big punch... the real secret weapon we have is that gear we need to reach. I don't think the Zags have the personnel to stop us from hitting that gear... it is all within our guys to find it. It means we play totally free from overthinking and we just go out there and run hard on both sides of the ball.

If this happens... we can win a National Championship, no problemo. And we will all be blessed with watching some of the all-time best Hawk ball ever to be played... and it comes from a group of guys not at the personal level of other teams we've had.

No matter what, I'm proud of these guys for achieving what they have... and I'm hopeful having a week to prepare and a healthy Remy, we find that gear Self is talking about. Wow!

RCJH!

@drgnslayr said in NOT Remy?!:

Defense is our Achilles... That is never proven more than the Bluejay game. We could have shot better from the field but otherwise, we can't expect to do better. We dominated boards, we shot the lights out from the line, we had almost no TOs... we dominated possessions!

Teams like the Zags feast on teams like ours. Turning the game into a game where we try just to outscore our poor defense will not get it done versus the Zags.

Yes, I sound negative... but listen to Self. We need that gear we haven't hit yet. And though Remy brings us a big punch... the real secret weapon we have is that gear we need to reach. I don't think the Zags have the personnel to stop us from hitting that gear... it is all within our guys to find it. It means we play totally free from overthinking and we just go out there and run hard on both sides of the ball.

If this happens... we can win a National Championship, no problemo. And we will all be blessed with watching some of the all-time best Hawk ball ever to be played... and it comes from a group of guys not at the personal level of other teams we've had.

No matter what, I'm proud of these guys for achieving what they have... and I'm hopeful having a week to prepare and a healthy Remy, we find that gear Self is talking about. Wow!

RCJH!

I'm calling it - Arkansas beats Gonzaga.

@Jethro

That would be a big upset imo, I don't see Arkansas having the offense but they have athletes..

@drgnslayr said in NOT Remy?!:

Defense is our Achilles... That is never proven more than the Bluejay game. We could have shot better from the field but otherwise, we can't expect to do better. We dominated boards, we shot the lights out from the line, we had almost no TOs... we dominated possessions!

Teams like the Zags feast on teams like ours. Turning the game into a game where we try just to outscore our poor defense will not get it done versus the Zags.

Yes, I sound negative... but listen to Self. We need that gear we haven't hit yet. And though Remy brings us a big punch... the real secret weapon we have is that gear we need to reach. I don't think the Zags have the personnel to stop us from hitting that gear... it is all within our guys to find it. It means we play totally free from overthinking and we just go out there and run hard on both sides of the ball.

If this happens... we can win a National Championship, no problemo. And we will all be blessed with watching some of the all-time best Hawk ball ever to be played... and it comes from a group of guys not at the personal level of other teams we've had.

No matter what, I'm proud of these guys for achieving what they have... and I'm hopeful having a week to prepare and a healthy Remy, we find that gear Self is talking about. Wow!

RCJH!

You are spot on. We haven't played badly, but we haven't played particularly well. We barely got passed a Creighton team that was down to 5-1/2 guys and without arguable their two best players throughout the season. We might be able to win the next two games the same way - winning ugly - but not 4 games as the quality of competition ratchets up. Because we can't consistently get stops on possessions, we are going to have to start making shots. I don't know if that's what HCBS means by another gear. We simply haven't shot the ball well, esp. Ochai. If we do start making shots - even just 8-20 from 3 - we are capable of beating anyone and running the table...

@DCHawker

Self has mentioned pace and controlling it and how important it is. It's about finding a speed rhythm where our guys are in-stride and our opponents are not. That right pace will be determined by our guys stepping up on defense enough to get stops. When we get stops we are more able to turn on the speed on offense, by getting the defensive rebounding and pushing it quick to get a shot before the defense sets up. Sometimes it comes by getting a TO.

Many times now we have had brief moments of this... and we bust out a lead quickly. And then in the same game the rhythm changes... the opposing team starts hitting baskets and we are forced to take the ball from out of bounds under our goal. Then we don't get as many easy baskets on offense.

We are not that great of a half-court offense team, especially moving forward as defenses will become tougher and teams have more time to scout us.

We are a great full-court offense team! We either finish on the initial break or we get a secondary break shot, often from trey!

When we are on our pace our opposition typically gets sped up beyond their effectiveness... adding more TOs, too. The Zags are capable of high TOs when they are made uncomfortable.

I keep talking Zags... but we don't have a cakewalk against Providence.

Anytime we don't control pace we are in a slugfest that comes down to the wire. It has been this way all year. Count us fortunate for winning so many close games. That does indicate the mental toughness of our guys to stay focused down the stretch. We don't panic easily!

Officials for Chicago. Sirmons & Kimble in our area. At least we avoided Kissinger, Pollard & goldie flocks

The officials in Chicago this week for the Midwest region, source told @stadium:

Roger Ayers
D.J. Carstensen
Jeff Clark
John Gaffney
Keith Kimble
Ray Natili
Doug Sirmons
Earl Walton
Terry Wymer
Kelly Pfeifer

@DCHawker said in NOT Remy?!:

@drgnslayr said in NOT Remy?!:

Defense is our Achilles... That is never proven more than the Bluejay game. We could have shot better from the field but otherwise, we can't expect to do better. We dominated boards, we shot the lights out from the line, we had almost no TOs... we dominated possessions!

Teams like the Zags feast on teams like ours. Turning the game into a game where we try just to outscore our poor defense will not get it done versus the Zags.

Yes, I sound negative... but listen to Self. We need that gear we haven't hit yet. And though Remy brings us a big punch... the real secret weapon we have is that gear we need to reach. I don't think the Zags have the personnel to stop us from hitting that gear... it is all within our guys to find it. It means we play totally free from overthinking and we just go out there and run hard on both sides of the ball.

If this happens... we can win a National Championship, no problemo. And we will all be blessed with watching some of the all-time best Hawk ball ever to be played... and it comes from a group of guys not at the personal level of other teams we've had.

No matter what, I'm proud of these guys for achieving what they have... and I'm hopeful having a week to prepare and a healthy Remy, we find that gear Self is talking about. Wow!

RCJH!

You are spot on. We haven't played badly, but we haven't played particularly well. We barely got passed a Creighton team that was down to 5-1/2 guys and without arguable their two best players throughout the season. We might be able to win the next two games the same way - winning ugly - but not 4 games as the quality of competition ratchets up. Because we can't consistently get stops on possessions, we are going to have to start making shots. I don't know if that's what HCBS means by another gear. We simply haven't shot the ball well, esp. Ochai. If we do start making shots - even just 8-20 from 3 - we are capable of beating anyone and running the table...

And honestly, that’s not a bad thing that they haven’t played their best yet. If you remember, the 2012 and 2018 teams both puttered around in the early rounds then picked it at the second weekend. The 2018 especially, other than nearly blowing an 18 point lead to Clemson in the final minutes. It at least gives us somewhere to go and hopefully saves our best shooting games for this weekend.

@HawkChamp This is actually my FAVORITE thing about where we are right now. We've honestly gone a winning streak here to end the season despite being in somewhat of a shooting slump! Here's hoping we come out of that slump sometime in the next 4 games! I know Self is a strong believer in the law of averages and is absolutely loving that this team has been able to win while not shooting well. And even against a team that shot better than their average in what is always a possible trap game.

@benshawks08 said in NOT Remy?!:

@HawkChamp This is actually my FAVORITE thing about where we are right now. We've honestly gone a winning streak here to end the season despite being in somewhat of a shooting slump! Here's hoping we come out of that slump sometime in the next 4 games! I know Self is a strong believer in the law of averages and is absolutely loving that this team has been able to win while not shooting well. And even against a team that shot better than their average in what is always a possible trap game.

Exactly. I’m sorry to bring up old painful memories but to put it in perspective, VCU shot 9/16 from three in the first half and we were down what, 14? On Saturday, Creighton shot an even better percentage at 8/12 in the first half and we led. And we only played pretty good, not great. Just something to keep an eye on moving forward.

@HawkChamp Check out the stats jesse Newell found that I posted on the PER Stats thread!

Look at Remy's game log for this year. Prior to the injury, Remy scored in double figures in 8 of 10 games, averaging about 11 points a game. Then he got hurt and battled injuries for about two months, and did not crack double figures at all. All of a sudden, he's healthy in the Big 12 tournament and has been in double figures every game since, averaging about 14 a game.

Getting healthy made all the difference for him.

I'm just thinking positive from here on out and hoping for the best! Just like Self told his troops... enjoy the moment! I'm going to take his advice!

https://theathletic.com/3206008/2022/03/24/how-remy-martin-came-back-from-an-unsettling-2-months-to-be-that-guy-for-kansas-dont-get-bitter-get-better/ ↗

“He’s been awesome, and I always will respect him and love him for the way he’s handled me,” Martin says of Self. “He helped me with my game and my life. He’s taught me a lot. And I think he kind of brought that dog out of me again.”

:eyes:

It's a good article. I'm glad this has (seemingly) panned out the way we expected to, even if the path to get here was strange.

And if Kansas wins two more games?

“It might look like the Philippines if they make the Final Four,” Sam says.

YES PLEASE

Honestly I haven't been this nervous for a game in a long, long time. I want it so bad for this team. So many good guys. So many good stories. Local ties. Superfans on the bench. This is just such a likable team.

@Kcmatt7

I'm nervous as well but part of that is the long wait. The guys needed the extra day though and well deserved. However I'm confident we are better and will play to that. Just can't draw up a better path to the Final 4. Most of the starters were around for 2019, 2020, 2021. They have all the ammo they need to play with a chip on their shoulder tomorrow.

@Kcmatt7 said in NOT Remy?!:

Honestly I haven't been this nervous for a game in a long, long time. I want it so bad for this team. So many good guys. So many good stories. Local ties. Superfans on the bench. This is just such a likable team.

ya ready too , been a long week , hoping the guys just don't come out and lay an egg. Seems like every year we have ONE rally bad outing just hope this yr it's different. - -hoping we can get past these guys be our luck they come out and hit everything they throw up. - -In reality Miami scares me more then Providence if we get past them a they can spread you out lot of outside shooters - those types of teams really scare me and they on a roll

I've found some other things to be nervous about this week, so it isn't so bad for me this time! Joining a men's golf league (never been in one before--is my game up to par?), cruise refunds (a few grand still hasn't arrived since October), big surprise birthday party for my better half (in the works for @30 people since Jan, and no one has spilled thebeans yet, 🤞),..... Haven't had time for the bad "What if"s!

Stole this data but hasn't been posted here. Since start of Big 12 tournament.

Remy On/ Juan Off: 0.94ppp offense, 0.91 defense.

Juan On/ Remy Off: 1.22 offense, 0.87 defense.

Both on: 1.23 offense, 0.79 defense.

@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23

@BShark said in NOT Remy?!:

Stole this data but hasn't been posted here. Since start of Big 12 tournament.

Remy On/ Juan Off: 0.94ppp offense, 0.91 defense.

Juan On/ Remy Off: 1.22 offense, 0.87 defense.

Both on: 1.23 offense, 0.79 defense.

@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23

Nothing quite like the classic Bill Self 2-guard...

@Kcmatt7 Feel like it's always our best option. Hoping Yes and Bobby continue to come along for next year.

Just saw Video of Mitch, he's looking real good compared to last week

@BeddieKU23 said in NOT Remy?!:

Just saw Video of Mitch, he's looking real good compared to last week

Good to hear. He looked really hobbled last week. Hope the time off has helped him recover.

Did the team have Monday & Tuesday off from practice?

@Gorilla72 said in NOT Remy?!:

Did the team have Monday & Tuesday off from practice?

Just Monday from what Coach said in interview I think he said walk through Tuesday

@BShark said in NOT Remy?!:

Stole this data but hasn't been posted here. Since start of Big 12 tournament.

Remy On/ Juan Off: 0.94ppp offense, 0.91 defense.

Juan On/ Remy Off: 1.22 offense, 0.87 defense.

Both on: 1.23 offense, 0.79 defense.

@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23

But I thought Juan is an offensive liability and since he can't score he should just sit? (Where'd that guy go??)

I think we are in pretty good shape to play this way MORE next year with Juan, Yes, and Bobby. Scoot Christian into Och's spot at the 3 and if Wilson and Dave both stay we are good to go with OPTIONS everywhere with the new recruits. I know Grady is going to play and probably another Big as well (someone has to replace MITCH!).

@rockchalkjayhawk said in NOT Remy?!:

@BeddieKU23 said in NOT Remy?!:

Just saw Video of Mitch, he's looking real good compared to last week

Good to hear. He looked really hobbled last week. Hope the time off has helped him recover.

100% better then last week. Should be 90 95% by the looks of it

@drgnslayr

Guess we talked the Zags out of the tournament:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

@BeddieKU23 said in NOT Remy?!:

@drgnslayr
Guess we talked the Zags out of the tournament

*I'm taking full credit by not jinxing Arkansas! So glad the Zags are gone!

Have to admit I'm shocked TT didn't take down Duke. I had TT making it to the Finals. No doubt I jinxed them!

@drgnslayr

Had Tech going elite 8 so yeah them not closing the game strong certainly was disappointing to see

Do you think Adams sometimes subs to much?

@Crimsonorblue22

I think he did.

Musselman said after the game they wanted to play very physically because the Zags had played some tough games early in their schedule but hadn't the last part of their season. At the end of the game the Zags still had some fouls to give may say that the Zags backed off a bit. The Hogs scrapped on the boards at both ends and never gave up on any play. Holmgren fouled out for the second straight game.