🏀 KuBuckets Archive

This thread (about Pack signing to Miami for $800/year) from Matt Tait got me thinking about the the feckless NCAA and what it means for the future of College Basketball (and maybe other sports).

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What I really noted is the discussion about the lack of a cap on the NIL and the "annual free agency" that is now a part of college basketball.

Professional sports has policy instruments in place to meter the salaries and rosters of teams. This is not a novel concept and not hard to anticipate.

Why didn't the NCAA think of this?

The sports entertainment marketplace is constantly evolving. The NCAA is not.

The NCAA has repeatedly demonstrated its inability to build policies that will drive desired behavior in their constituents. What is happening now is great example of their inability to anticipate behavior that would follow from a policy change (made involuntarily, which is more evidence that they don't have vision or innovate.)

Without these modulators, I think we can safely speculate that college basketball will go in some pretty unpredictable directions that are not to the benefit of the sport, the schools or even the athletes.

This moment could be the fissure that transforms college sports.

Proper policies and governance are necessary for major college sports (football, m/w basketball, baseball?) to operate as the entertainment business that it already has become, and continue as a feeder to the professional operations.

Many people feel that conference realignment has been moving toward some inevitable sea change. If the NCAA won't do it, maybe this is the trigger that leads to a coalition of conferences to break off from the NCAA.

There are many things that have been building toward the 5 super conferences, but at the heart of it is the NCAA's inability to develop functional policies, even when there are policies in operation that they could use as a model. They are always in reaction mode. I can't remember the last time they did something innovative.

This is not new, fyi. The transfer rule change opened the gates on true free agency. The sit-out rule previously was the detriment to that.

It's worse in Football. Tennessee QB will reportedly get up to 8 million in NIL when he hits campus. What's the price Arch Manning is going to command? The Top 22 recruit reportedly got 1.5 million from Barstool for a documentary.

The NCAA needs to get out of the game and let the big conferences form their own rules and regs

True-- transfer rule is not new, but I thought there was a recent change relaxing the rule, plus the Covid accommodations. And each year the transfer portal has gotten bigger and people seem a bit surprised by how quickly it has grown.

Anyway, my assertion is that the combination of NIL and transfer is a new dynamic.

@bskeet

Also due to Supreme Court rulings the NCAA is handicapped in what they can police from this NIL stuff. Perhaps some regulation comes to even the field but right now its gorilla warfare out there. Kids are mostly benefitting from their new opportunities.

I think the transfer rule should stay but there needs to be a "transfer window" created to control when they can enter and what time period to select a new school. Shouldn't be a 12 month job for coaches imo to recruit their own and recruit others

@bskeet said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

True-- transfer rule is not new, but I thought there was a recent change relaxing the rule, plus the Covid accommodations. And each year the transfer portal has gotten bigger and people seem a bit surprised by how quickly it has grown.

Anyway, my assertion is that the combination of NIL and transfer is a new dynamic.

You are correct. The recent rule change regarding transfers is what opened "free agency". Even before NIL, the deals were nuts. I don't think NIL bringing things into public light has changed much, by and large. Some schools like Miami are trying to make things very public but 400k for one year isn't even an insane number. Top talent has received more than that 10+ years ago including at KU.

@BeddieKU23 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

It's worse in Football. Tennessee QB will reportedly get up to 8 million in NIL when he hits campus. What's the price Arch Manning is going to command? The Top 22 recruit reportedly got 1.5 million from Barstool for a documentary.

The NCAA needs to get out of the game and let the big conferences form their own rules and regs

Football is absolute funny money. There is a reason we aren't a big force there lol.

I am still not seeing the issues other than the transfer market being crazy.

Miami paying big bucks for a player is GOOD for the sport. They've only made the tournament 11 times in history. They beat out some top tier basketball schools for him. If money wasn't a thing, Nigel Pack is either back at KSU or somewhere in Indiana.

NIL is going to let some schools who can get creative compete at a national level. And I don't think it will decimate mid-majors the way people think. We just saw a 15 seed make an elite eight run. Literally the furthest a 15 seed has gone in the history of the tournament. And the only reason that roster is being decimated is because the coach left.

While mid-major's will lose their best players yearly (it is a reality) they also will get to backfill their roster with the Tristan Enaruna's of the world. A guy with P5 athleticism and experience. There is a give and take.

I do like the idea of a shorter transfer window.

I also like the idea of limiting the number of transfer roster spots allowed or some sort of mechanism that doesn't allow for 1500 new spots to open up. So, you are free to transfer, but there might not be a scholarship for you waiting on the other side of it. Almost like how football limits you to 25 scholarships per recruiting class. You can have 13 scholarships, but each year you can only add 3 players from the portal. Something like that I think could work.

No matter what I don't think it is the end of the sport or the world. This last NC game just set a record for viewers so people are still watching games.

Selfs opinion
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

Selfs opinion
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Self says, as he likely takes ISU's starting PG for himself due to NIL.

@BShark but it's not just cause of the nil. He said he wanted to go to a blue blood.

@Kcmatt7 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I am still not seeing the issues other than the transfer market being crazy.

Miami paying big bucks for a player is GOOD for the sport. They've only made the tournament 11 times in history. They beat out some top tier basketball schools for him. If money wasn't a thing, Nigel Pack is either back at KSU or somewhere in Indiana.

NIL is going to let some schools who can get creative compete at a national level. And I don't think it will decimate mid-majors the way people think. We just saw a 15 seed make an elite eight run. Literally the furthest a 15 seed has gone in the history of the tournament. And the only reason that roster is being decimated is because the coach left.

While mid-major's will lose their best players yearly (it is a reality) they also will get to backfill their roster with the Tristan Enaruna's of the world. A guy with P5 athleticism and experience. There is a give and take.

I do like the idea of a shorter transfer window.

I also like the idea of limiting the number of transfer roster spots allowed or some sort of mechanism that doesn't allow for 1500 new spots to open up. So, you are free to transfer, but there might not be a scholarship for you waiting on the other side of it. Almost like how football limits you to 25 scholarships per recruiting class. You can have 13 scholarships, but each year you can only add 3 players from the portal. Something like that I think could work.

No matter what I don't think it is the end of the sport or the world. This last NC game just set a record for viewers so people are still watching games.

I'm with you for the most part here. No way this turns into gloom and doom for college sports. Shoot, pay to play has been happening for 80 years. Nothing new here, it's just out in the open. Will there be a market correction? Sure, I guess that could happen. I won't feel sorry for rich people who are spending some disposable income on what's more or less a hobby. Them's the breaks.

The portal window is shorter this year. Last year the deadline to enter for fall eligibility was July 1, now it's May 1. Anyone who enters after has to sit out until fall 2023. They also tried it in football. You had to maintain good academic standing through the end of the semester to be eligible right away.

Also worth noting the one time transfer was the norm for the vast majority of SA's for a loooooong time. I believe only football, men's basketball, and maybe volleyball(?) had a sit out provision. Literally all other sports had this already, just nobody noticed.

Tl;dr: there's nothing new under the sun.

@Crimsonorblue22 but really, it's about the money as always. Bluebloods pay well.

He does like the big stage and he knows what we have to offer in terms of packing the place with 16,300 every game.

@Kcmatt7 To be clear, the record set was not for a men's champ game in general. Only a record for one carried on cable, which has a much smaller sample! Nowhere near the audiences in the broadcast era. Still good.

@BeddieKU23 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I think the transfer rule should stay but there needs to be a “transfer window” created to control when they can enter and what time period to select a new school. Shouldn’t be a 12 month job for coaches imo to recruit their own and recruit others

This is a very reasonable concept for a policy.

If the NCAA would have considered this idea, I can't imagine how they would have concluded "Nah, let's just leave it wide open."

My point is that the NCAA is unimaginative and ineffective when it comes to policy development. (Note: I'm not talking about policing or enforcement -- that's a different responsibility of the NCAA. But enforcement is dictated by the policies. I see setting policies as their #1 job.)

@Kcmatt7 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I also like the idea of limiting the number of transfer roster spots allowed or some sort of mechanism that doesn’t allow for 1500 new spots to open up. So, you are free to transfer, but there might not be a scholarship for you waiting on the other side of it. Almost like how football limits you to 25 scholarships per recruiting class. You can have 13 scholarships, but each year you can only add 3 players from the portal. Something like that I think could work.

This is also a very reasonable concept for a policy.

I think we are doing NCAA's work for them.

SMH

@Kcmatt7 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I am still not seeing the issues other than the transfer market being crazy.

Miami paying big bucks for a player is GOOD for the sport. They've only made the tournament 11 times in history. They beat out some top tier basketball schools for him. If money wasn't a thing, Nigel Pack is either back at KSU or somewhere in Indiana.

NIL is going to let some schools who can get creative compete at a national level. And I don't think it will decimate mid-majors the way people think. We just saw a 15 seed make an elite eight run. Literally the furthest a 15 seed has gone in the history of the tournament. And the only reason that roster is being decimated is because the coach left.

While mid-major's will lose their best players yearly (it is a reality) they also will get to backfill their roster with the Tristan Enaruna's of the world. A guy with P5 athleticism and experience. There is a give and take.

I do like the idea of a shorter transfer window.

I also like the idea of limiting the number of transfer roster spots allowed or some sort of mechanism that doesn't allow for 1500 new spots to open up. So, you are free to transfer, but there might not be a scholarship for you waiting on the other side of it. Almost like how football limits you to 25 scholarships per recruiting class. You can have 13 scholarships, but each year you can only add 3 players from the portal. Something like that I think could work.

No matter what I don't think it is the end of the sport or the world. This last NC game just set a record for viewers so people are still watching games.

That's a good idea. Limit transfers to 3 a year. I would also put a provision in that you can transfer the first time and be immediately eligible, but have to sit out a year with any more transfers you make.

https://www.isdhoops.com/article/im-here-reason#:~:text=Brian%20Hunter%2C%20Tyrese's%20older%20brother,the%20heels%20of%20her%20death ↗

@Jethro Any limits on getting players from the portal would have to allow for more if a team has an unusual number of departures, I would think.

@Jethro said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

@Kcmatt7 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I am still not seeing the issues other than the transfer market being crazy.

Miami paying big bucks for a player is GOOD for the sport. They've only made the tournament 11 times in history. They beat out some top tier basketball schools for him. If money wasn't a thing, Nigel Pack is either back at KSU or somewhere in Indiana.

NIL is going to let some schools who can get creative compete at a national level. And I don't think it will decimate mid-majors the way people think. We just saw a 15 seed make an elite eight run. Literally the furthest a 15 seed has gone in the history of the tournament. And the only reason that roster is being decimated is because the coach left.

While mid-major's will lose their best players yearly (it is a reality) they also will get to backfill their roster with the Tristan Enaruna's of the world. A guy with P5 athleticism and experience. There is a give and take.

I do like the idea of a shorter transfer window.

I also like the idea of limiting the number of transfer roster spots allowed or some sort of mechanism that doesn't allow for 1500 new spots to open up. So, you are free to transfer, but there might not be a scholarship for you waiting on the other side of it. Almost like how football limits you to 25 scholarships per recruiting class. You can have 13 scholarships, but each year you can only add 3 players from the portal. Something like that I think could work.

No matter what I don't think it is the end of the sport or the world. This last NC game just set a record for viewers so people are still watching games.

That's a good idea. Limit transfers to 3 a year. I would also put a provision in that you can transfer the first time and be immediately eligible, but have to sit out a year with any more transfers you make.

The latter is already the rule. You only get one freebie without a waiver.

@BShark geez I can't take all these kids in.💙🙏😥

@BShark That story... woah. Forged in a crucible of despair...

I think the transfer portal concept will start balancing out as time goes by (a few years).

Watch schools like WSU... where they totally missed the early NIL train and now are trying to catch back up.

There will come the day when an organic balance is reached.

Meanwhile... try not to think of adding more rules. It is a great concept. It's basically "free agency" to players every year!

In the end, it will eventually be good for the player, which will also make it good for the school, which will make it good for the fans, too.

Emmert stepping down June 23.

A good day

@BeddieKU23 Kansas City Jayhawks🤬

@Crimsonorblue22 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

@BeddieKU23 Kansas City Jayhawks🤬

The next person I'm sure will be spineless and heartless

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I think the transfer portal concept will start balancing out as time goes by (a few years).

Watch schools like WSU... where they totally missed the early NIL train and now are trying to catch back up.

There will come the day when an organic balance is reached.

Meanwhile... try not to think of adding more rules. It is a great concept. It's basically "free agency" to players every year!

In the end, it will eventually be good for the player, which will also make it good for the school, which will make it good for the fans, too.

Not to mention the impact COVID and the COVID year are still having on this.

Johnny Jockstrap comes in to play QB as a top recruit to one of the four schools allowed to qualify for the CFP. But he surprises everyone by choosing KU instead of Clemson, or gasp, Bama. He gets an 8 million$ deal because you know, the other guy did. JJ is now a very rich freshman and he starts using some of that money to convince $ome friend$ to come to KU. I mean, just hook em up with a bit of cash, who will ever know? Not like he's a booster living in the KC burbs, he's a KU football player, an insider obviously. What's stopping these sorts of shenanigans from happening? I admit, my eyes glaze over whenever they talk about money in sports so I don't follow it closely. But this whole thing is changing the two college sports we all follow. Transfers? The worst change to college sports maybe ever.

Warning take with a grain of salt Vernon tweet alert*

Vernon posting that Wichita barnstorming event brought in 100k +. He also says there are at least 6 more stops & he's expecting bigger NIL news to drop for KU coming up

I figure Wichita would probably be their busiest event. Probably won't do $100k at every event.

Still if this nets $600k and each guy walks away with $60k that's good money. I have to imagine there will be some creative ways to get guys NIL money with events. I would think that maybe the late night in the phog is an opportunity for that. Would get the ladies bball team some money too...

I just don't know where the line in the sand is for where the school can and can't be involved.

@BeddieKU23 I bet he added Remy's jerseys. After the initial sale, remy sold 2 more I think, to the other bidders. Those are just Remy's cash. Of course anything they sell of their own belongs just to them.

If I had the means, I'd jump on jerseys from Remy, Ochai & McCormack. They gave us some unforgettable moments.

Honestly, they should be auctioning some of this stuff or donate to schools and other charities that run auctions. I think that's where they might maximize the revenue (although the donations don't generate anything for the player.)

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To me this reads like rich people have found away to avoid paying taxes on payments to student athletes… I mean it was obvious this is where this was heading. But this is essentially a non-affiliated endowment specifically to recruit players. Kind of crazy to say out loud

Not only is pay to play legal, it’s taxpayer subsidized!

Looks like Isaiah Wong of Miami will enter the transfer portal if he doesn’t get more NIL money from Miami, according to The Athletic. Same school that gave Pack $800,000. Wild year.

@Gorilla72 said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

Looks like Isaiah Wong of Miami will enter the transfer portal if he doesn’t get more NIL money from Miami, according to The Athletic. Same school that gave Pack $800,000. Wild year.

LMAO!

We brought in the biggest gun out there in the NIL arena 🐦 View Tweet?s=10&t=zliOsNFrwG71nasQCGBGpQ

Great news

The biggest LOL I've seen yet from this organization

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/34420323/ncaa-asks-member-schools-help-nil-violation-investigations ↗

Help with "NIL violations?"

I read that and the first thought I had was something positive about the NCAA. I thought they are trying to protect the athletes' rights concerning NIL violations (going to battle for the athletes when others were using their NIL rights without approval).

Ha.. I should have known better!

@drgnslayr That's funny! Have you been optimistic about pigs flying, too? Or the life expectancy of that snowball in hell? 🙃

@mayjay

Hahaha.... I'm usually not that optimistic. Especially this summer... since grasshoppers have eaten all my tomatoes! lol

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

@mayjay

Hahaha.... I'm usually not that optimistic. Especially this summer... since grasshoppers have eaten all my tomatoes! lol

Try spraying bifenthrin (generic capture insecticide) on the grass (and weeds) around the the garden to kill the rat bastards before they get to your tomatoes. Will provide 2- 3 weeks control.

@dylans

Hey thanks! Good to know for next year. I think I'm about done for this year. Since they were so bad this year, am I likely to have them back next year?

@drgnslayr They are variable year to year —Grasshoppers are typically worse in dry years. They do well in grass and weeds and when they dry down (turn brown from drought) they go looking for something green - your garden!

@dylans

I had high grass near my garden. I'll make sure that is gone between now and next year!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2022/08/30/ncaa-consider-major-changes-infractions-process-division-i/7943166001/ ↗

Good or bad for us?

No idea, but Dan Wolken sucks

@Crimsonorblue22

I've learned the hard way to limit my expectation/interpretation comments.

@KirkIsMyHinrich no post season bans.

Sounds like posturing for the release of their verdict on KU.

Am I reading this right?

"We are basically ending harsh penalties that punish today's players from past school affairs. No more long, drawn-out investigations. This will become law after we stretch out the Kansas decision and then penalize the f out of them!"

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

Am I reading this right?

"We are basically ending harsh penalties that punish today's players from past school affairs. No more long, drawn-out investigations. This will become law after we stretch out the Kansas decision and then penalize the f out of them!"

I think we'll see a suspension for Kurt and Bill, but not much else. I'd be surprised if the ban was longer than 10 games.

@Jethro said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

Am I reading this right?

"We are basically ending harsh penalties that punish today's players from past school affairs. No more long, drawn-out investigations. This will become law after we stretch out the Kansas decision and then penalize the f out of them!"

I think we'll see a suspension for Kurt and Bill, but not much else. I'd be surprised if the ban was longer than 10 games.

... it could explain the recent return of Dooley to get some more coaching experience into the program..

It seems to me to be extremely cruel punishment. We've had to live under the investigation cloud already for several years... and now punish us for something that is basically legal today. I know I'm repeating myself but.... Zion and Duke!

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

It seems to me to be extremely cruel punishment. We've had to live under the investigation cloud already for several years... and now punish us for something that is basically legal today. I know I'm repeating myself but.... Zion and Duke!

And the most damning evidence that's public knowledge about KT involves Zion, lol!

My brother got an MIP a week before his 21st birthday. When asked by the judge if he learned anything he said, “I’ll never do that again” (he was 21 by the court date). This feels similar.