🏀 KuBuckets Archive

The AAC has reached a deal with Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF on early buyouts and those three will be joining the Big 12 next summer and begin competing as Big 12 members for the 2023-24 athletic season. BYU had already committed to joining the Big 12 for 2023 so as of now, the Big 12 will be at 14 teams for two seasons before Oklahoma and Texas head off to the SEC.

With the AAC teams timeline settled, I wouldn't be shocked if we see Texas and OU negotiate an early buyout and head to the SEC early now as well.

What a frankenstein of a conference.

With OU & UT leaving, it’s actually back to 12? Took long enough. 😉

Looks like it will hurt conference baseball without OU & UT, though.

💸💸💸💸💸

Bleh

@FarmerJayhawk would you rather be in the big 10?

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk would you rather be in the big 10?

100%. Not just for athletics (thought that is important) but also for academics. We'd be an outlier in the new Big 12 in terms of research expenditures and having professional degrees. We rank 70th in the country with about $370m in R&D expenditures. ISU is close behind. The next closest is KSU with about $218m, which ranks 115th. Baylor and BYU are down in the 220's. So we're closer to the Big Ten than Big 12 in academic metrics. I think it would be great for KU, and the state as a whole, for KU to be in the Big Ten.

I doubt the Kansas Board of Regents would allow KU to go to the Big Ten without KState. Lots of politics that go into that sort of move.

@justanotherfan said in Big 12 Expansion:

I doubt the Kansas Board of Regents would allow KU to go to the Big Ten without KState. Lots of politics that go into that sort of move.

They 100% would. There’s no real attachment to keeping them together. Only a couple Board members have any KSU affiliation. It’s very much a pro KU body.

It would hold us back, so not fair.

I'd really miss playing Baylor, TT, OSU and that's about it.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

The AAC has reached a deal with Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF on early buyouts and those three will be joining the Big 12 next summer and begin competing as Big 12 members for the 2023-24 athletic season. BYU had already committed to joining the Big 12 for 2023 so as of now, the Big 12 will be at 14 teams for two seasons before Oklahoma and Texas head off to the SEC.

With the AAC teams timeline settled, I wouldn't be shocked if we see Texas and OU negotiate an early buyout and head to the SEC early now as well.

I fully expect Texas And OU try and get that buy out. - -Heard Texas has their money - - just waiting for OU to get their's

I actually feel this isn't quite as bad as some may think. - -Houston , BYU , & Cinn may not be quite the caliber in football , but they are no slouch's either they have competitive teams. In Basketball I think these schools mor then hold thir own in Basketball with Texas & Oklahoma. Calvin will not take a back seat to either one of those teams in Basketball. - -BYU has shown they can compete - -were gonna be ok

You've heard it before, but I for one would love to see KU in the BIG! Seeing KU at Northwestern (easy ticket), Purdue and of course in Madison would be amazing. You all would have new reasons to join me in hate of Iowa to boot. It's win win!

Except, the basketball of Baylor and Tech is so good that I'd not like to see those go.

I dont want B12 blown up. I think it can survive and i love our identity as is.

We need a better tv deal!

@approxinfinity said in Big 12 Expansion:

I dont want B12 blown up. I think it can survive and i love our identity as is.

This.

Big 10 seems like the most natural location for us now that the B12 has no soul.

That said, I do see the wisdom in being patient. The consequences for schools that have burned bridges are enduring. It's worth waiting to make the move at the right time. Plus, KU has the opportunity to be the premier institution of the new B12. That has advantages as well.

@Gorilla72 said in Big 12 Expansion:

With OU & UT leaving, it’s actually back to 12? Took long enough.
Looks like it will hurt conference baseball without OU & UT, though.

Yes. Makes me wonder how many sports will be damaged and will some be helped?

I'm sure someone out there knows.... hope to hear a response.

I'm not in any hurry to jump to a new conference. It's all fools gold. The Big 12 took an identity hit, but we didn't. We still remain in a conference that has molded and changed while we stay right here with several other schools.

Let's see where this goes! Let's see if our conference learned a lesson from luring in Texas and giving them the keys to the store. No more Longhorn Network dominance. Now we will be 12 schools on similar footings... let's encourage equality to all members. There will be strength in that if we realize it.

It's going to be weird. Houston makes sense but the other two not so much. Obv Cincinnati & UCF have good developing football programs which is important.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Gorilla72 said in Big 12 Expansion:

With OU & UT leaving, it’s actually back to 12? Took long enough.
Looks like it will hurt conference baseball without OU & UT, though.

Yes. Makes me wonder how many sports will be damaged and will some be helped?

I'm sure someone out there knows.... hope to hear a response.

Just the revenue deficit alone will make competing nationally more of a challenge. When the inevitable happens and Self retires, we won't have the resources to write a blank check to anyone we want. There will be less revenue for football stadium renovations and improvements. We're trying to rebuild the baseball program now and renovate Hoglund, which takes money. Ditto swim team facilities. Track and Field should be ok. RCP is an incredible venue and should cement us as a destination for teams all across the country.

The basketball schedule will get whacky, with KU likely getting fewer primetime slots. There's talk a chunk of the Big 12 hoops schedule could move to Thursdays and Sundays, which could mean we're up against the NFL for ratings. Just us hardcore will watch KU basketball instead of the Chiefs (which, I'm not a fan but there's clearly a TON of crossover). But that's ESPN's call, not ours. All for a reduced payout over what we're getting now, and a conference without much of an identity. What do KU, BYU, Cincy, and Texas Tech have in common? The new Big 12 is a marriage of convenience, no more, no less.

@FarmerJayhawk

BYU can't play on Sundays if I recall. Wonder how that would work if it came to it

@BeddieKU23 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk

BYU can't play on Sundays if I recall. Wonder how that would work if it came to it

That's right. The NCAA ran into this a few times when BYU advanced in the hoops tournament. They ended up planning to swap days so BYU's region would play Saturday, the other would play Sunday. I suppose they just wouldn't schedule them for any Sunday games

All 4 schools have stronger baseball program histories than ours (except for that aberrant CWS appearance).

Baseball, softball and track and field are the sports that would feel the most immediate impact from UT and OU leaving the Big 12. Obviously OU just won the NCAA softball title (5 titles in the last 1o years). UT was OU's opponent in the softball final, so there's that. Texas and Oklahoma both also advanced to the college baseball world series.

Texas' track and field team is one of the best in the country (was ranked #1 this season), although both Baylor and Texas Tech have very strong programs. OU is a top program as well (definitely top 25, probably top 15 or 20). That said, Houston and BYU are comparable to OU in track, so the drop off isn't huge there.

Texas is a top notch volleyball program on the women's side. OU not so much.

Oklahoma is ranked #1 in men's golf. Texas is in the top 10. Oklahoma State and Texas Tech are both in the top 10 also, so not a huge drop off, but that's two top 10 teams leaving.

Texas is one of the top programs in the nation in swimming and diving (notice a pattern here?). Oklahoma is strong in gymnastics.

Essentially, losing Texas and Oklahoma means the Big 12 is losing one or two of its strongest programs in just about every non-revenue sport. There are strong programs still left in some of those sports, but losing the competition of Oklahoma and Texas could hurt recruiting, particularly in baseball and softball, where the Big 12 has to compete with the SEC directly (and the SEC just got MUCH stronger).

@FarmerJayhawk so KU, TT, Baylor, ISU, Houston, maybe OSU won't interest tv markets on sats or big mondays?

I hate this!

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk so KU, TT, Baylor, ISU, Houston, maybe OSU won't interest tv markets on sats or big mondays?

KU definitely is a big draw, and will be as long as Self keeps us rolling. So we'll still get more than our share of Monday primetime games. But we'll also get stuck on Sunday afternoons on occasion just because that's what the new Big 12 media deal will likely entail.

@FarmerJayhawk I just can't believe that, national champs? Wsu plays a lot on sundays.

@FarmerJayhawk heard of anybody for the new big 12 commish? Any ideas?

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk I just can't believe that, national champs? Wsu plays a lot on sundays.

Yeah, it's going to suck. ESPN will replace a lot of American Conference games that were on Sundays with Big 12 games.

@FarmerJayhawk they're worse than us?

@FarmerJayhawk some of conference USA is moving there. Lower than us.

@Crimsonorblue22 College basketball doesn't draw big numbers outside of the NCAA Tournament. Only 1 regular season game topped 3 million, and only 8 topped 2 million. Duke or Kentucky were involved in 6 of those 8 games. The two games that didn't involve Duke or Kentucky were Ohio St./Purdue that was tge lead in to the AFC title game so a lot Bengals fans were likely watching that game as well and the other game was St. John's/Georgetown that I believe was the lead in to the Rams/Buccaneers playoff game.

And those overall numbers are still down from pre-pandemic numbers. People's viewing habits are changing amd I doubt very many leagues, if any, actually see their next media rights deals increase because of those changing habits.

@Texas-Hawk-10 😭 not even coming off a championship will help us or Baylor?

We have to put our emotions on the side here and look at hard facts. All the numbers on viewership are out there for us to study. Basketball doesn't draw near the crowds that football does, and it is also represented in real numbers in stadiums.

I do remember life before Texas in our conference. We survived. Has our sports lives been enhanced since Texas entered our conference? We've won two basketball titles. Do we thank Texas in any part of that? I know it is painful to even ask those questions. Do I personally give Texas credit? No. I give Self and Brown credit. But these are my thoughts and feelings, and as I said above... we need to tamper emotions on this to think rationally.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

We have to put our emotions on the side here and look at hard facts. All the numbers on viewership are out there for us to study. Basketball doesn't draw near the crowds that football does, and it is also represented in real numbers in stadiums.

I do remember life before Texas in our conference. We survived. Has our sports lives been enhanced since Texas entered our conference? We've won two basketball titles. Do we thank Texas in any part of that? I know it is painful to even ask those questions. Do I personally give Texas credit? No. I give Self and Brown credit. But these are my thoughts and feelings, and as I said above... we need to tamper emotions on this to think rationally.

I myself am in a mind of just let this play out. I think we might end up being better off in this then what some think. Answer to your question, did Texas help us in any way ? - -The answer for me is a big fat simple NO

i'll actually be glad when they are gone - you want out ? - -get the F - - - out. You may end up finding out you not the studs you think you are. .I think ?Texas is in trouble in football in the SEC - -well actually they in trouble in both , they are liable to be middle of the pack , you not gonna be playin kick the can when you come up against the LSU'U - the Georgia's & others. - In Basketball they gonna be in trouble against Kentucky Florida's and others. - I think Oklahoma is a bigger loss then Texas, i would of much rather have them stay then Texas.

I'm ready for them to move on - -so the Big 12 can move on , I think we going to be ok. - -Plus ther are some people that think KU going to the Big 10 is a lock - - I don't think thats a given , I'm just ready to get rid of their ass and move on

@jayballer67

Right on!

I'm glad to see Texas go. They came in and did a great job of wrecking our conference.

I also think... let's play this out and see what happens.

Without Texas and OU, the Big XII is kind of straddling the line between a power conference and a mid major, to be honest.

Who's the Big XII's best athletic department without UT and OU? Probably Baylor or Oklahoma State? KU is too weak in football to be the premier department in a conference. Iowa State and K-State are decent, but not a top flight department. Houston and Cincinnati are stepping up, but could be good for the conference. BYU will always be solid, but the question remains on whether they will be a good fit long term.

The conference slips a bit in football, quite a bit in softball/baseball/track. Basketball is probably the only sport where the Big XII doesn't take a bit of a hit. The next commissioner is going to have to make sure no one takes a step back, or that could start a slide towards mid major territory.

@justanotherfan

We slipped in football.... at least for now. But maybe the future in football isn't with Texas and OU... maybe it's with Baylor, Houston, TT and others.

The Big 12 is going to have to step up big in football, or it could go like you said... slipping away.

@drgnslayr The Big 12's decline overall began with UT's decline in football after the 2009 title game loss to Alabama. Regardless of anyone's personal opinions of UT, they are the school that gave value to Big 12. They were the program that drew ratings to the league. They were the program that drew recruits to the league. How many other below .500 teams could KU have beaten on the road and garnered so much attention nationally? KU doesn't get the attention they got last year for that win if was any other Big 12 team that entered that game at 4-5 like Texas did. How many teams with a losing record sell 95,000 tickets to a game against Kansas football?

Texas is a name brand and losing them is going to do irreparable damage to the Big 12 because there isn't another Texas out there to bring into the Big 12. All the complaining about UT should be a bright, neon billboard to everyone about where UT's place and importance to the Big 12 is.

Cincinnati may have had more on field success than Texas recently, but Cincinnati is not capable of filling a 100,000+ seat stadium like Texas does.

As much I'm looking forward to being able to see KU in person more frequently with Houston in the conference, KU officials need to be working behind the scenes to get KU into the Big 10 as soon as possible.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I can easily agree with everything you said.

But I can also challenge where we were because of the dysfunction down in Austin. The Big 12 also paid a horrible price for bringing in Texas. That, to me, was the beginning to the end of our conference.

I can't just blame Texas... but more of the overall deck-shuffling in college sports.

I remember when the Big 8 sat on top. When the entire nation awaited games like Nebraska/Oklahoma. The Orange Bowl often decided the national champion.

I can already hear the criticism of my post... that was THEN and this is NOW! And it is a valid criticism... however... I still question whether it is smart to jump conferences and become a school with ZERO identity.

Let's look at other Big 12 school departures. How has it worked for Nebraska, Missouri, and Colorado?

Big huge "nothing burgers!"

In the new landscape we’ll also be a nothingburgers. The difference will be a rich one or poor one. Only half the Big 8 will be left in the Big 12 3.0. I just can’t bring myself to care as much if we’re playing at Orlando instead of Austin or Norman or Boulder.

Let's face it... we remain a big nothing burger in football, and will probably always remain that. So we go from a conference where we might win some games or we go to a conference where we may never win another conference game.

From a basketball perspective, I think we lose by going to the Big 10. It's a conference that plays a rough version of basketball. I'd hate to recruit when you have to tell players they'll have to "pad up" before games. It's an identity we simply don't have and goodbye recruiting in the south.

I'm sure Nebraska would love us to join, so they get at least one team they can thrash every year in football!

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

Let's face it... we remain a big nothing burger in football, and will probably always remain that. So we go from a conference where we might win some games or we go to a conference where we may never win another conference game.

From a basketball perspective, I think we lose by going to the Big 10. It's a conference that plays a rough version of basketball. I'd hate to recruit when you have to tell players they'll have to "pad up" before games. It's an identity we simply don't have and goodbye recruiting in the south.

I'm sure Nebraska would love us to join, so they get at least one team they can thrash every year in football!

I wouldn't get myself all worked up just yet about us and the Big 10 Drgnslayr, I'm just not that sure that the Big 10 will give us that invite a even though with our Basketball that our other sports non revenue & revenue bring enough to the table to entice that invite. Basketball would be the bonus for us but like we have been made aware of Football is the sport that brings the money it IS THE SPORT & as we know thats not going to get us in. I just don't think if we stay where we are at that we are going to be in such dier straights as some try to make it out to be. Play it out let's see how things work before we worry about the doom and gloom of staying put. - I just don't think that the Big 10 is going to be as a automatic invite as some seem to think that they would be chomping at the bit to get us to join

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

Let's face it... we remain a big nothing burger in football, and will probably always remain that. So we go from a conference where we might win some games or we go to a conference where we may never win another conference game.

From a basketball perspective, I think we lose by going to the Big 10. It's a conference that plays a rough version of basketball. I'd hate to recruit when you have to tell players they'll have to "pad up" before games. It's an identity we simply don't have and goodbye recruiting in the south.

I'm sure Nebraska would love us to join, so they get at least one team they can thrash every year in football!

@jayballer67

I heavily doubt if the Big 10 wants us... and why would they? It's not good for any conference to add a horrible football team. What does any of their current teams gain by adding us to their schedule? And then we come in on basketball and completely stir the pot.

The Big 10 is a horrible idea for us and for them. Horrible. We are better off as an independent. Why are $s important when we will get murdered every year in football and experience a decline in our basketball program.. all happening while trashing our identity.

We may face some struggle with the Big 12 coming up... let's compare that to the struggle created in some of these super conferences, with so many teams divided and odd unfair schedules... and zero identity because it is all unnatural and without historic significance.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67

I heavily doubt if the Big 10 wants us... and why would they? It's not good for any conference to add a horrible football team. What does any of their current teams gain by adding us to their schedule? And then we come in on basketball and completely stir the pot.

The Big 10 is a horrible idea for us and for them. Horrible. We are better off as an independent. Why are $s important when we will get murdered every year in football and experience a decline in our basketball program.. all happening while trashing our identity.

We may face some struggle with the Big 12 coming up... let's compare that to the struggle created in some of these super conferences, with so many teams divided and odd unfair schedules... and zero identity because it is all unnatural and without historic significance.

I agree bud. I just don't think us going to the Big 10 is a given as like many think. - -Your right because at THIS MOMENT ur football brings nothing to the Big 10 , our other sports are just eh --not bad BUT not goo enough to help out a lot. Basketball is our Ace - -but just don't think some people think that it's a given were gonna get invited. - I'm just not that sure, and on top of that I'm not gonna lose sleep over it if we don't.

I don't think we are as bad off as some think. We have added quality teams to the league, Houston for sure more then will hold it's own in Basketball - Cincinn isn't no slouch. - BYU is capable I actually think we up graded in Basketball, & I don't think it's as bad as some of those people that are standing on the edge of the cliff thinking the world is coming to an end in football. - -Again Houston & Cin cinn both will be repectable sur on the football front they won't be quite the caliber but in the other sports - - -let's wait and see before we think that the Big 10 is just frothing at the mouth to get it in. - -That's not happening people. WE might get in -we might not

With NIL, $$$ are key to recruiting because NIL $$$ are going to mean everything. If we fall by the wayside conferencewise, we probably won't be able to compete for recruits in basketball, and that will make it hard to make consistent runs in the NCAA. We have crossed the threshold in the NCAA in terms of $$$. Either have $$$ and have success, or not have $$$ and fail.

@justanotherfan man, you are really a downer! Depressing!

@justanotherfan

Where will our kids be making their NIL? Maybe I'm off here... but won't it be for selling carpet in Kansas City? Or BBQ? Won't that be more localized $$$? Like... would Och be making money on his image in Michigan? I am thinking the big $$$ made from moving to the Big10 won't be going to the athletes.

There are many discussions about NCAA ceding enforcement powers to the conferences. That is something to consider in deciding how KU best survives in sports. Seems lke we can have more influence in Big 12, where we have been connected historically with most other teams.

How is Gonzaga pulling top 5 recruiting classes in a midmajor? Are shoecos still king? Can we survive in B12 just by remaining the adidas flagship?

@drgnslayr The reason to try and move to the Big 10 is not solely athletic. Yes, the TV money will be better because because of schools like Ohio St. and Michigan that are on par with Texas in regards to followings and drawing viewers. The bigger boon is going to be on the academic side because once Texas and Oklahoma leave, KU would be the top research university in the conference and the only AAU member university which is unofficial criteria for Big 10 membership. Joining a conference where almost everyone else is also an AAU member would be a big boost to the university itself and not just athletics

In regards to athletics, think about how much people here complain that a low level game is on ESPN+, that doesn't happen in the Big 10 because of the Big 10 Network that's generally apart of most providers sports package.

You'll get to see every basketball game on the BIGNetwork if they go to the league. I've never forked over any extra ESPN+ money to watch the Badgers, and while the network doesn't televise every league game on their main channel, they do feature the prominent teams.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Very interesting post.

Reality check : we're contemplating joining a conference that hasn't invited us, and recently made a public announcement they would not expand their conference. It would be nice if we were offered, but it's not even on the table right now.
I'm fine with the B12 for now. I like the fact that KU will play football and basketball in Houston, which will be a lot of fun to attend. I'm planning a sabbatical back to the Phog next year, which will be a blast, but it sure would be nice to see the guys locally.

@wissox they don't televise every game? Are their games on sun. too?

@Crimsonorblue22 They have a sort of ESPN+ thing for the less popular games. I've never had to miss a Badger game because of the + thing. They want their popular teams on live TV. Their Sunday games have become later in the day with some Sunday evening games.

@wissox at least we haven't been on Sundays. It's actually worse.

@Jethro

Right. I don't see the Big 10 wanting Kansas. Seems more logical they would want KSU before KU. I know that bruises a lot of egos... but football trumps basketball by a mile.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Jethro

Right. I don't see the Big 10 wanting Kansas. Seems more logical they would want KSU before KU. I know that bruises a lot of egos... but football trumps basketball by a mile.

Not remotely true.

Quick and unverified googling:

The Wildcats brought in $67.6 million in total revenues and spent $78.4 million. Both numbers were down significantly compared to normal years. In 2020, K-State reported $86.4 million in revenue and $86.1 million in expenses.
— feb 10 ‘22

Kansas' NCAA financial statement for fiscal year 2021 showed an end total of minus-$1,815,108, when comparing $92,325,635 in operating revenue to $94,140,743 in operating expenses. Back in fiscal year 2020 the figure was plus-$14,564, when comparing $102,707,575 in revenue to $102,693,011 in expenses. — feb 10 ‘22

Question: How many years would it take for Kansas football to lift its reputation as being competitive? 5 years of solid performance? 10 years?

KSU may be a good model to study. They stunk worse than us before turning their program around long ago. How are they valued today, both economically and competitively?

I know this conversation stinks... but realistically... who wants Kansas football today? Even a shelled-out Big 12 has us at the bottom.

Old the athletic article…

Stewart Mandel wrote last week that two sports TV consultants estimated to The Athletic that about 50 percent of the value of the Big 12’s television contract derived solely from Texas and Oklahoma. The Big 12’s current deal paid each school around $25.2 million this last fiscal year, according to tax returns. Add in other league revenue — mainly from the bowls — and the schools received an average of $38.5 million. Last year, the Big Ten paid out about $42.4 million to each of its members. That number was down from about $53.8 million the previous year because of canceled football games. So, in theory, the Big Ten would have to be convinced that any school that comes into the league would be able to increase its TV revenue enough that no one’s bottom line suffers.

Article referenced Gonzaga as a successful midmajor bball powerhouse, also Villanova, whose football is div ii

13 million drop in athletic revenue from tv contract would hurt. Hard to build up football while youre cutting budget.

@drgnslayr If the Big 10 only cared about on field football results, they never would've added Maryland and Rutgers who have been somewhere between middle of the pack at their bests in the Big 10 to bottom feeders. There's a lot more than football success that goes into the Big 10 discussions about adding new programs.

TV viewership numbers are down across the board because of how viewing habits have changed so I wouldn't expect any conference to see an increase in their next major deals. The Big 10 is also a conference that tries to keep up with the SEC and with the SEC moving to 16 members, don't be too surprised to see the Big 10 take a serious look at trying to add some combination of KU, Pittsburgh, Virginia, and UNC to keep up with the SEC.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@drgnslayr If the Big 10 only cared about on field football results, they never would've added Maryland and Rutgers who have been somewhere between middle of the pack at their bests in the Big 10 to bottom feeders. There's a lot more than football success that goes into the Big 10 discussions about adding new programs.

TV viewership numbers are down across the board because of how viewing habits have changed so I wouldn't expect any conference to see an increase in their next major deals. The Big 10 is also a conference that tries to keep up with the SEC and with the SEC moving to 16 members, don't be too surprised to see the Big 10 take a serious look at trying to add some combination of KU, Pittsburgh, Virginia, and UNC to keep up with the SEC.

How big are the tv markets for Maryland and Rutgers?

@Jethro If you want to know the future of TV, look at MLS and their deal with AppleTV next year, look at the NFL and their deal with Amazon, look at UFC and their deal with ESPN+. The New York Yankees I believe have a streaming deal with someone beginning next season. That is the future of TV and live sports, not cable TV deals. Media market size is going to be less relevant than ever going forward and KU has always had good in-house production and can add value to a streaming deal because of how many hours of content they can provide to a streaming deal with another conference.

Streaming is the future of TV and KU adds value in that regard because JayhawkTV can provide many hours of content to a streaming service like Amazon or AppleTV who appear to be the platforms most interested in moving into the live sports realm.

@Texas-Hawk-10 hard time imagining UVA leaving the ACC

Also can you guys imagine Duke and UNC getting split up. That i could get behind.

@approxinfinity Duke is also an AAU school so there could be a deal there if the Big 10 really wanted to push that.

Realistically, what probably hurts KU the most is Iowa St. leaving the AAU this year.

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/.amp/football/big-12-revenue-still-third-among-power-5-conferences-but-not-light-years-behind ↗

@approxinfinity Texas and Oklahoma are the biggest reason why the Big 12's is where it's currently at. Losing those two likely drops the Big 12 into the Pac 12 and ACC range and possibly lower than that. There's a reason why both ESPN and Fox vetoed the Big 12 expanding while Texas and OU were still long term members of the league. The Big 12's next TV dealnis going to see a major drop off in value without the league's two cash cows.

@Texas-Hawk-10 how much will Houston, Cincinatti UCF and BYU estimate to bring in? If 13 mill per school is lost in revenue, how much do we recover? If we are in ACC / PAC territory isnt that okay? Does this give us a little more leash to try to fix the football program and maybe compete in the conference with OU and Texas out?

Also since our budget is basically break even, where does the loss affect us? What cost saving measures do we see?

@approxinfinity we didn't get money from the longhorn network did we? Do they get to keep that in the sec?

@Texas-Hawk-10

I challenge your view for us to go to the Big 10 but I appreciate your wisdom in this area. It is far deeper than mine. I openly admit to a simplistic view on this topic.

I am skeptical about us having an opportunity to go to the Big 10. And everything else... I've already stated.

I would like to ask you... let's say the Big 10 is a "no go." What is your best outlook for Kansas in the future? Connecting in another conference? Or if we stick it out... can you project a little deeper into the future... beyond dollars and cents?

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@justanotherfan

Where will our kids be making their NIL? Maybe I'm off here... but won't it be for selling carpet in Kansas City? Or BBQ? Won't that be more localized $$$? Like... would Och be making money on his image in Michigan? I am thinking the big $$$ made from moving to the Big10 won't be going to the athletes.

You're right, they will be making money locally. But answer this - where can you make more money? Selling carpet in KC or selling carpet in Chicago? Advertising for a restaurant in Wichita or in Dallas? See where I'm going. The Big 12 footprint doesn't have a lot of pull in the larger metro areas, so NIL $$$ will depress slightly. If you're an athlete at UCLA or USC, you have all of LA at your fingertips. That will pay more than something in Lawrence. That's the challenge.

@Texas-Hawk-10 if streaming is the future, again, will Jayhawk TV get as many subscribers as a network dedicated to Texas or USC or Cal? If not, the money just won't be there because Kansas is a smaller state than a lot of these other places. That's just the difficulty with the new deals out there.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Texas-Hawk-10

I challenge your view for us to go to the Big 10 but I appreciate your wisdom in this area. It is far deeper than mine. I openly admit to a simplistic view on this topic.

I am skeptical about us having an opportunity to go to the Big 10. And everything else... I've already stated.

I would like to ask you... let's say the Big 10 is a "no go." What is your best outlook for Kansas in the future? Connecting in another conference? Or if we stick it out... can you project a little deeper into the future... beyond dollars and cents?

You cannot take a simplistic view on a matter that is very complicated. If KU can convince the Big 10 to add KU, then KU needs to jump on that opportunity ASAP because it is a bigger benefit to the entire university and not just athletics which is what most people only focus on in these situations.

The Big 10 is generally regarded as the top academic conference among the P5 conferences and the Big 12 is at the bottom of the P5 in regards to academics. The SEC has significantly improved its academic standing in recent years with the 4 B12 schools it's added because 3 of the 4 are AAU member schools and once Texas officially moves, it would give the SEC 5 AAU member schools whereas pre-expansion they only had two.

Being apart of the best academic league among major conferences has recruiting prospective students looking for a top academic school (there's only 65 AAU member schools), it helps attract international students, especially from India and China because AAU rankings are currently emphasizing medical research. Medical isn't the only emphasis, but it's currently the largest.

Being in the Big 10 would allow KU to partner with other B10 schools on major research projects from government grants.

Travis Goff does have strong ties to the Big 10 so he can have conversations about what KU needs to do to join the B10 athletically amd pass on to Doug Girod what KU could do academically to help itself as well. Girod coming from the Med School has a lot as well because of the AAU's focus on medical research.

Once Texas is gone, KU will be the only AAU member schools left in the B12. Houston would probably be the only other school that could gain membership as the school just approved building a medical school and became a Tier 1 research school not too long ago so they have significantly increased the school's academic profile in recent years. Baylor is another possibility because they just became classified as a Tier 1 research school this year and ready have a College of Medicine, but I'm not sure the structure Baylor has between the main campus and the med school.

If KU can't get into the Big 10, staying put in the Big 12 is the next best option. I'm also perfectly okay with Girod and Goff not publicly discussing the matter because it's not a situation that needs to play out in public and Missouri basically making the negotiations public is one of the big things that hurt their chances at joining the Big 10 a decade ago.

@justanotherfan said in Big 12 Expansion:

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@justanotherfan

Where will our kids be making their NIL? Maybe I'm off here... but won't it be for selling carpet in Kansas City? Or BBQ? Won't that be more localized $$$? Like... would Och be making money on his image in Michigan? I am thinking the big $$$ made from moving to the Big10 won't be going to the athletes.

You're right, they will be making money locally. But answer this - where can you make more money? Selling carpet in KC or selling carpet in Chicago? Advertising for a restaurant in Wichita or in Dallas? See where I'm going. The Big 12 footprint doesn't have a lot of pull in the larger metro areas, so NIL $$$ will depress slightly. If you're an athlete at UCLA or USC, you have all of LA at your fingertips. That will pay more than something in Lawrence. That's the challenge.

@Texas-Hawk-10 if streaming is the future, again, will Jayhawk TV get as many subscribers as a network dedicated to Texas or USC or Cal? If not, the money just won't be there because Kansas is a smaller state than a lot of these other places. That's just the difficulty with the new deals out there.

That's not how NIL works. Playing for a school in a bigger market doesn't guarantee a bigger payday. In the case of somewhere like LA, that's a pro sports town and it's going to be players from the pro teams getting the type of endorsement deals your talking about. The way NIL money makes it way to programs is through the school's boosters and the companies they own paying athletes to promote those businesses on social media.

As for streaming, no, JayhawkTV is not something that KU should market independently. If you go into ESPN+, you can find hours of content produced by JayhawkTV there like "Miles To Go" and other stuff like that. Old football and basketball games, olympic sports archives, behind the scenes stuff. That's stuff that adds value to JayhawkTV and if KU were to move to the Big 10, all that content moves with KU to be added to the BTN archives giving them even more content they can add. Then, when the Big 10 goes looking for a new media rights deal, if someone like Amazon or AppleTV get involved, the B10 can show them how many hours of content they have to sell, including JayhawkTV content and help increase the value of that type of deal because a lot of those deals are based on how many hours of content are being offered.

This may be a stupid question, I've asked a few, but do our many wealthy alumni that are scattered around the country contribute to NIL's?

@justanotherfan do you think our ncaa championship game viewership is a good judge of that or not?
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2022-04-05/2022-di-mens-basketball-championship-game-sets-single-game-viewing-records ↗

@Texas-Hawk-10

Fascinating posts... thank you! I can get behind growth in academics!

The new Big Ten media deal will be MASSIVE. Like over $1 billion per year massive. Pretty soon the gap between the two premiere leagues and the rest of the crew will be $50m+ per school per year. Not to mention the Big 12, ACC, and PAC will get worse networks, less desirable time slots, and less coverage on ESPN, ABC, CBS, and FOX.

Our ticket to a better league for KU is when (I don’t think it’s an if statement) the conferences tell the NCAA to screw off and take the basketball tournament into their own hands. Any other network would love to have the tv rights to a new Power 5 Invitational or whatever they call it. And KU would be the biggest beneficiary. Why, you ask? It all comes down to how the NCAA distributes Tournament revenue.

The NCAA Tournament takes in over $1 billion per year. How much of that gets doled out to conferences? Well, about $170 million. Each school gets one “unit” for making the tournament and another for each win. The value of a unit this year was about $340k. So KU earned 7 units for the Big 12 to split up among the 10 schools. Which is a ripoff! We should be getting A LOT more. But between the Tournament not being sold at market value (the NCAA isn’t maximizing the value at all) and the NCAA taking by far the largest share of a too small pie, the conferences are getting jobbed.

What if the power leagues started their own, similar to the football playoff? I’m glad you asked! The CFP distributes $74m per conference to P5 leagues as part of the bowl system, plus academic bonuses. And an additional $6m per league for each playoff team. And an additional $4m just for making a bowl.

There is a vast well of untapped value KU has if the leagues tell the NCAA to screw off.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@justanotherfan do you think our ncaa championship game viewership is a good judge of that or not?
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2022-04-05/2022-di-mens-basketball-championship-game-sets-single-game-viewing-records ↗

I don't. The NCAA championship game usually has good viewership. You had a great game with two high profile programs. That should have high viewership. This wasn't Texas Tech-Virginia. This was KU-UNC. I don't think that necessarily translates to NIL, but it does help the overall college basketball market.

@FarmerJayhawk

I wouldn't put the PAC into the same category as the Big12 or even ACC. I think the PAC has a unique demographic advantage that is very desirable-- the entire west coast.

My opinion: The 3 conferences with the best positioning for the foreseeable future are SEC, B10 and PAC.

These are the 3 Kings.

All 3 are headed toward a natural state of equilibrium that is 16 schools. The SEC is already there with the addition of Texas and OU. The B10 and PAC both have 14 schools, so they could add 2 schools each.

In this ecosystem, there is room for one more super-conference. (Four super-conferences provides 64 teams for a natural playoff bracket for all major sports. It covers the timezones for the networks and it avoids saturation.)

That fourth conference is to be determined... but the B12 and the ACC do not have the mass/gravity to hold together while in such close orbit. They will pull apart at some point and there will be reformation to a new conference of 16 schools that will join the 3 kings.

An inevitable game of musical chairs is coming. Any schools not already comfortably sitting in one of the 3 kings, would be vying for those 16 spots -- including the remaining schools from the ACC, the Big12 the AAC and the Big East... not to mention a few from the Big West will try to make a case.

Avoiding this game of musical chairs is another reason (on top of all the points previously made) why it is important to secure a spot in one of the 3 kings... (and SEC and PAC are non-starters, so it has to be B10).

Well, there goes KU's shot at joining the B10....

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/usc-ucla-planning-to-leave-pac-12-for-big-ten-though-deal-not-yet-finalized-per-reports/ ↗

Dwindling options. Join the PAC 12 or the B12 add two of the best remaining - CO rejoin and maybe AZ? Not sure they would have any interest...

@DCHawker said in Big 12 Expansion:

Well, there goes KU's shot at joining the B10....

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/usc-ucla-planning-to-leave-pac-12-for-big-ten-though-deal-not-yet-finalized-per-reports/ ↗

Dwindling options. Join the PAC 12 or the B12 add two of the best remaining - CO rejoin and maybe AZ? Not sure they would have any interest...

ya does look that way if those two joined that would put the Big 10 at the 16 team , although I've never thought we were really in that serious contention. Not worried KU will figure this out

The moving isn’t close to done

This is interesting and surprising because usually the Big 10 has been interested in schools that share a border with current Big 10 members.

With the Big 12 hiring their new commissioner, I'm hoping he'll look at further expanding the Big 12 by raiding the PAC12 and going after Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, and Utah if UCLA and USC do bolt for the Big 10.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

The moving isn’t close to done

How much more moving are you thinking? 20 teams? 24 teams?

A bit concerning and discouraging as KU fan who thought the Big10 was the best resting place when the music stopped.

There are interesting opportunities for the B12 - Not only plucking some fruit from the Pac12 as was mentioned, but also from the SEC which might have a couple of schools rethinking their allegiances... And possibly ACC (which has been very quiet lately.)

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

The moving isn’t close to done

How much more moving are you thinking? 20 teams? 24 teams?

24 🐦 View Tweet?s=21&t=kS1iTgLGpPca_kJ7eJsZcA

Hang onto your butts 🐦 View Tweet?s=21&t=-aAGNmgYxa1sic2rGR5wTA

The news just said at 6 they've been accepted.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Hang onto your butts 🐦 View Tweet?s=21&t=-aAGNmgYxa1sic2rGR5wTA

Out of curiosity, would you rather UNC join the SEC or the B10? And how do you feel about not being in a conference with Duke?

Media outlets in the Northwest are already reacting to the USC & UCLA departures, mostly with alarm.

Schools like Oregon and Washington (fiscally stable up to now) have a decision, according to one headline I just read: "Leave Pac-12 Or Be Content In A Declining Conference." Already some rumors have the two schools off to another league, possibly the Big 10.

One issue for any conference taking them in: the fate of the rival programs at Oregon State and Washington State, which don't have near the resources of their in-state counterparts.

(It makes one wonder how many KU fans would trade the K-State rivalry for a berth in a better conference.)

A lot of the blame for the LA schools leaving can be put on the last Pac-12 commissioner, who negotiated a terrible TV contract that put a lot of kickoff times way too late for viewers in the Eastern and Central time zones. I'm sure the Big 10 won't have them play home games at 7:30 Pacific.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Hang onto your butts 🐦 View Tweet?s=21&t=-aAGNmgYxa1sic2rGR5wTA

Out of curiosity, would you rather UNC join the SEC or the B10? And how do you feel about not being in a conference with Duke?

That’s tough. Culturally UNC is a much better fit in the SEC, but the SEC doesn’t have the Olympic sports or academics UNC really values. So I’d say Big Ten. Duke can rot in hell 😎

@nwhawkfan said in Big 12 Expansion:

Media outlets in the Northwest are already reacting to the USC & UCLA departures, mostly with alarm.

Schools like Oregon and Washington (fiscally stable up to now) have a decision, according to one headline I just read: "Leave Pac-12 Or Be Content In A Declining Conference." Already some rumors have the two schools off to another league, possibly the Big 10.

One issue for any conference taking them in: the fate of the rival programs at Oregon State and Washington State, which don't have near the resources of their in-state counterparts.

(It makes one wonder how many KU fans would trade the K-State rivalry for a berth in a better conference.)

A lot of the blame for the LA schools leaving can be put on the last Pac-12 commissioner, who negotiated a terrible TV contract that put a lot of kickoff times way too late for viewers in the Eastern and Central time zones. I'm sure the Big 10 won't have them play home games at 7:30 Pacific.

Answering about KU leaving the K/ state rivalry - -I think they would in a heart beat, bottom line is teams/schools have to look out for themselves , rivalries or not, and really for KU/K State there hasn't been that rialary lately in the two sports - - K/State dominating Football - - KU dominating Basketball. The other school need to win once in a while for it to really be a rivalry . The thing is and I have no clue on this totally know nothing but evey time this is brought up all I hear is how Govt here in Kansas would not allow KU to leave K/State behind I don't know

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

This is interesting and surprising because usually the Big 10 has been interested in schools that share a border with current Big 10 members.

With the Big 12 hiring their new commissioner, I'm hoping he'll look at further expanding the Big 12 by raiding the PAC12 and going after Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, and Utah if UCLA and USC do bolt for the Big 10.

Ya we must do something and would say I think fairly quickly. - -Like your thoughts would like possibly having Arizona & Arizona State possibly joining . - -What about trying to get some teams from ACC if not PACC 12 ? - -This whole deal with the BIG 10 accepting UCLA & USC has kind of blown geographics right out of the water. - Would be some travel problems/distance for sure but looking like now all bets are off and Dog eat Dog

I think with this move by USC & UCLA moving to the BIG 10 - your gonna see a lot of movement now. - -I think this thing has just erupted. Hoping for the best & I think now KU stays put expand the Big 12 and see where it goes. Good teams from other conferences going to be looking to make moves and make moves soon I think

Not sure if ANY TRUTH at all to this but got from TOS. statement from Bowlsbuy - -The Big 12 officially announcing extending offers to Arizona , Arizona State , Washington , & Oregon to joining 24-25 academic year. - -Could be some trioll.

One thing we DO KNOW this is going to be something else hold on wild ride in the future

I don't know guys , I mean call me blind , call me thick , call me slow , call me stupid BUT with this latest development , I just think even more now that KU will be staying put. - -One - -with USC & UCLA joining the BIg 10 I just think there is even a less chance of KU just for Basketball.- - With what has even been mentioned here Football is the money maker in College sports and even though I love my KU - - we all know KU brings NOTHING in that aspect I just don't think even more now that our Basketball is enough to attract the offer. USC traditional good football teams - & good enough especially UCLA can hold their own in Basketball

I just feel even more strongly now and like an article I red tonight the Big 12 which found it'self in Death throes 11 months ago NOW all of a sudden find their Selves in an advantageous position as beneficiary with this movement in the Pac 12. I think the possibilities like a different article said - -we could see the Big 12 and the remainder of the Pac 12 form a merger - -OR the big 12 may just try and add Arizona - - Arizona State - - Oregon - - Utah - -* Washington I just think KU will stay put and ride it out

I would favor something like what happened with the Big 12 1.0. The Southwest Conference and Big 8 folded and formed the Big 12.

I’ll be honest, I do not give a flying monkey’s arse about BYU, University of Florida - Orlando (Online), or “baby vomit over spaghetti” Cincinnati. I don’t like those cities for road trips and they don’t add much to the competitiveness of the league in terms of economic value.

I also don’t really care about Wazzu or Oregon State. Pullman is more or less in Idaho and Corvallis allegedly is a real city, but I haven’t confirmed that.

So, let’s take the best of the rest and build a legit power league. Stanford, Cal, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas are a good start out west. KU, ISU, Tech, OSU, Houston, and maybe another Texas school works. If you can get UW and Oregon that’s even better. All the sudden you have a really good league.

Doesn’t CA have a prohibition against their state supported schools (UC system) playing schools where politics conflict? I think Kansas, Oklahoma, maybe Nebraska conflict. I dunno about other Big 10 schools.

@Gorilla72 said in Big 12 Expansion:

Doesn’t CA have a prohibition against their state supported schools (UC system) playing schools where politics conflict? I think Kansas, Oklahoma, maybe Nebraska conflict. I dunno about other Big 10 schools.

State funds can’t be used to travel to those states. Which doesn’t really matter for athletics since they can just say it’s donor money.

“ The travel ban, which took effect in January, originally included Kansas, Mississippi, North Carolina and Tennessee. The Attorney General … announced he had added Alabama, Kentucky, South Dakota and Texas because of recently enacted laws in those states.” Apparently it includes university staff members. I’m not certain it can be gotten around so easily due to the amount of state funding involved. I’ll be interested to see if it comes into play…

Coaches and team personnel are almost always independent contractors. If this was a real issue UCLA would be in trouble. I believe Iowa and Ohio are on the list

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

I would favor something like what happened with the Big 12 1.0. The Southwest Conference and Big 8 folded and formed the Big 12.

I’ll be honest, I do not give a flying monkey’s arse about BYU, University of Florida - Orlando (Online), or “baby vomit over spaghetti” Cincinnati. I don’t like those cities for road trips and they don’t add much to the competitiveness of the league in terms of economic value.

I also don’t really care about Wazzu or Oregon State. Pullman is more or less in Idaho and Corvallis allegedly is a real city, but I haven’t confirmed that.

So, let’s take the best of the rest and build a legit power league. Stanford, Cal, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas are a good start out west. KU, ISU, Tech, OSU, Houston, and maybe another Texas school works. If you can get UW and Oregon that’s even better. All the sudden you have a really good league.

Baby v**** over spaghetti. That is the grossest restaurant on earth. When I lived in Florida, there was a Skyline right next to my office. I tried it once, and it was horrible. A year later, I got talked into it again, and it was even worse.

I think chances are that the Big 1 and the Pac 12 merge when it's all said and done , & I think we are going to see this put into action fairly quickly

@Jethro said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

I would favor something like what happened with the Big 12 1.0. The Southwest Conference and Big 8 folded and formed the Big 12.

I’ll be honest, I do not give a flying monkey’s arse about BYU, University of Florida - Orlando (Online), or “baby vomit over spaghetti” Cincinnati. I don’t like those cities for road trips and they don’t add much to the competitiveness of the league in terms of economic value.

I also don’t really care about Wazzu or Oregon State. Pullman is more or less in Idaho and Corvallis allegedly is a real city, but I haven’t confirmed that.

So, let’s take the best of the rest and build a legit power league. Stanford, Cal, Colorado, Utah, and the Arizonas are a good start out west. KU, ISU, Tech, OSU, Houston, and maybe another Texas school works. If you can get UW and Oregon that’s even better. All the sudden you have a really good league.

Baby v**** over spaghetti. That is the grossest restaurant on earth. When I lived in Florida, there was a Skyline right next to my office. I tried it once, and it was horrible. A year later, I got talked into it again, and it was even worse.

Good to see this board has people with the strictly correct take regarding Skyline. Carry on then.

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

I think chances are that the Big 1 and the Pac 12 merge when it's all said and done , & I think we are going to see this put into action fairly quickly

The B1G isn’t ready to move on Oregon and Washington. Waiting on Notre Dame. The Big 12 should be pulling every string to get the top of the PAC.

If Oregon joined the B12, the flagship institutions for Nike and Adidas would be head to head every season. (assuming KU stays in the B12, which is as big of an assumption at this point as Oregon leaving the Pac12)

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

I think chances are that the Big 1 and the Pac 12 merge when it's all said and done , & I think we are going to see this put into action fairly quickly

The B1G isn’t ready to move on Oregon and Washington. Waiting on Notre Dame. The Big 12 should be pulling every string to get the top of the PAC.

couldn't agree with you more Famer - - I think they need to jump and jump now. - -The chances of us in the Big 10 are getting less and less. - - I dove into the message boards of the pac 12 schools and they all seem to think they need to join the big 12 - Arizona , Arizona State , Utah , & Colorado. - sur not the perfect scenario but we can't sit still and do nothing

I red a statement from CBS Sports that quoted one Big 12 Member saying they had no interest at this time to add any Pac 12 members - - that would be a HUGE mistake. - -Either merge and take all remaining members or take those 4 schools. The Big 12can not afford to just sit and do nothing

@FarmerJayhawk so no way we get invited?

So it looks like this is going to turn into one big time cluster. - - Read where the Big 10 has told Oregon & Stanford they standing pat and not looking to expand any further at this point.

Pac 12 looking to expand ,if this happens - -does KU become one of the expansions joining the Pac 12 ? - I will repeat the people in charge need to get after this with all fours - -whether its the Pac 12 joining the Big 1 or Visa Versa - -things have got to move. -I think probably best if the two just merge

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk so no way we get invited?

There's definitely a way. If the B1G goes to 20+, we're a strong candidate.

So I wonder what happens to these other Conferences ? - -The Big East - - Will the ACC survive

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/06/30/big-ten-conference-done-with-expansion-for-now/ ↗

Not sure how reliable, but sounds like Big 10 is done for now with expansion. If that is the case, the Big 12 needs act and go after Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Utah, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington and beat the Big 10 and SEC to 20 teams.

No wonder people say the ACC grant of rights is ironclad. There’s no mechanism in the deal for getting out of it! https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/07/01185531/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1.pdf ↗

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

So it looks like this is going to turn into one big time cluster. - - Read where the Big 10 has told Oregon & Stanford they standing pat and not looking to expand any further at this point.

Pac 12 looking to expand ,if this happens - -does KU become one of the expansions joining the Pac 12 ? - I will repeat the people in charge need to get after this with all fours - -whether its the Pac 12 joining the Big 1 or Visa Versa - -things have got to move. -I think probably best if the two just merge

The Pac 12 would be a death knell for us- the black hole of college sports. I sure hope we don't merge. If anything, I could see Pac12 losing most of their members after all this shakes out. I think the B12 will swoop in.

@Jethro said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

So it looks like this is going to turn into one big time cluster. - - Read where the Big 10 has told Oregon & Stanford they standing pat and not looking to expand any further at this point.

Pac 12 looking to expand ,if this happens - -does KU become one of the expansions joining the Pac 12 ? - I will repeat the people in charge need to get after this with all fours - -whether its the Pac 12 joining the Big 1 or Visa Versa - -things have got to move. -I think probably best if the two just merge

The Pac 12 would be a death knell for us- the black hole of college sports. I sure hope we don't merge. If anything, I could see Pac12 losing most of their members after all this shakes out. I think the B12 will swoop in.

Hell if the big 12 swoops in as you say and most of members no difference then the leagues merging -big 12/pac 12 - - pac 12/big 12 either way these two will form in the ed in some way

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

No wonder people say the ACC grant of rights is ironclad. There’s no mechanism in the deal for getting out of it! https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/07/01185531/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1.pdf ↗

I don't imagine the conference lawyers wanted to make it easy to make a "lateral" move for schools from one P5 league to another. The Big 12 probably has similar language in their deals which is why OU amd Texas haven't been able to work on an earlier move to the SEC than when the B12 Grant of Rights expires.

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/07/01/pac-12-big-12-college-football-realignment-news/ ↗

If accurate, WTF!?!? I guess the behavior makes sense considering Bowlsby is still in charge for a few more weeks and he's never been proactive when poaching teams when that's been anopinion, he's always been reactive when making moves. It'd be nice if his farewell to the Big 12 was to change it up, swing for the fences and invite Arizona, ASU, Cal, Colorado, Oregon, Stanford, Utah, and Washington to the Big 12 and see who's interested. Especially considering the Big 12 does have their next TV deal coming up a year after the B10. Going for those 8 schools is probably the only way to realistically increase the current yearly payout to schools.

https://www2.ljworld.com/news/ku/2022/mar/22/kus-research-ranking-grew-by-five-spots-in-the-last-year-but-it-still-ranks-low-among-prestigious-aau-schools/ ↗

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/07/01/pac-12-big-12-college-football-realignment-news/ ↗

If accurate, WTF!?!? I guess the behavior makes sense considering Bowlsby is still in charge for a few more weeks and he's never been proactive when poaching teams when that's been anopinion, he's always been reactive when making moves. It'd be nice if his farewell to the Big 12 was to change it up, swing for the fences and invite Arizona, ASU, Cal, Colorado, Oregon, Stanford, Utah, and Washington to the Big 12 and see who's interested. Especially considering the Big 12 does have their next TV deal coming up a year after the B10. Going for those 8 schools is probably the only way to realistically increase the current yearly payout to schools.

If the Big 12 jacks around and does nothing and wets all over themselves with this - - then the league deserves whatever they get. This bullshit of just sitting when the teams are there to expand - -now days you better get it done. - -The Big 12 can not afford to just sit around on their thumbs with this

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

No wonder people say the ACC grant of rights is ironclad. There’s no mechanism in the deal for getting out of it! https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/07/01185531/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1.pdf ↗

I don't imagine the conference lawyers wanted to make it easy to make a "lateral" move for schools from one P5 league to another. The Big 12 probably has similar language in their deals which is why OU amd Texas haven't been able to work on an earlier move to the SEC than when the B12 Grant of Rights expires.

maybe I'm a lone wolf , maybe im stressing to much but I've been reding Arizona , Arizona State , Utah boards and seems consensoul that these teams need to be added to the Big 12. WHY is the higher ups of the Big 12 being so blind. They need to move, the Big 12 sits silent then they WILL BE silent at the wrong time. - -They have to get these teams added to stay relevant in the sporting world. To sit and be silent makes no sense what so ever The Big 12 needs to move and move now.

Either we merge with the pac 12 or we take these teams to form our own solid conference - not just sit and be a complete idiot

There’s a meeting Tuesday between the Big 12 and the Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado. This could get done quickly

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

There’s a meeting Tuesday between the Big 12 and the Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado. This could get done quickly

Dang Farmer thats good news hopefully. Thanks for the insight. The Big 12 just can't afford to sit still and do nothing, I'm hoping this is some SERIOUS TALKS. - -I think if we could get together with the Arizona Schools and add the other two it would at least put us on more stable ground. No wouldn't be some mega conference but we would at least put us on more stable ground..

Your a breath of fresh air on this Sunday Evening Farmer, may not be the ideal situation but we have to DO SOMETHING. - -Like I posted earlier, off the Arizona boards most their fans figure it's pretty much a given they come to the Big 12. If indeed this got done would move us to a 16 team conference

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

There’s a meeting Tuesday between the Big 12 and the Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado. This could get done quickly

Dang Farmer thats good news hopefully. Thanks for the insight. The Big 12 just can't afford to sit still and do nothing, I'm hoping this is some SERIOUS TALKS. - -I think if we could get together with the Arizona Schools and add the other two it would at least put us on more stable ground. No wouldn't be some mega conference but we would at least put us on more stable ground..

Your a breath of fresh air on this Sunday Evening Farmer, may not be the ideal situation but we have to DO SOMETHING. - -Like I posted earlier, off the Arizona boards most their fans figure it's pretty much a given they come to the Big 12. If indeed this got done would move us to a 16 team conference

Hoping it’s a kind of quasi-merger and we don’t even entertain bringing Oregon St and Wazzu unless it means getting their big brothers.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

There’s a meeting Tuesday between the Big 12 and the Arizonas, Utah, and Colorado. This could get done quickly

Dang Farmer thats good news hopefully. Thanks for the insight. The Big 12 just can't afford to sit still and do nothing, I'm hoping this is some SERIOUS TALKS. - -I think if we could get together with the Arizona Schools and add the other two it would at least put us on more stable ground. No wouldn't be some mega conference but we would at least put us on more stable ground..

Your a breath of fresh air on this Sunday Evening Farmer, may not be the ideal situation but we have to DO SOMETHING. - -Like I posted earlier, off the Arizona boards most their fans figure it's pretty much a given they come to the Big 12. If indeed this got done would move us to a 16 team conference

Hoping it’s a kind of quasi-merger and we don’t even entertain bringing Oregon St and Wazzu unless it means getting their big brothers.

Ya, I hear ya. I really think chances are we just work a deal with these 4 , I think the chances of Oregon and Washinton being available is going to be pretty slim down the line, as from what I've been reading although the BIG says they are good for now - -when it's al said and done sounds like Oregon and Washington is next on the list for them..

I think we stand pat with the 16 team conference about as good as it's gonna get for us. The others from the Pac 12 just bring not much - -the only thing would be would be a complete merger , but with the meeting talking to these 4 I think this is it.

Mercy the ACC is going to play out really interesting wiith teams if they even thought about leaving they would have to forefit all home revenue for games up until 2036? - -is that right ? - If that's true that league is in a world of hurt with the way these things are playing out. - Looks like we gonna get like been saying maybe 4 mega Conferences? - -Not sure if we would have to add yet more but not sure where we would get any quality teams from. - If we still have to add cause there is talk of even 20 team conferences now thats insane. Yet I think we are good if we can get these four - - -at least for now.

I openly admit to having little knowledge in these conference shakeouts. But my gut says to NOT PANIC and get into death deals. I feel like being part of a super conference is an absolute disaster. No more solid conference home/away round robins stinks. And the answer to split up conference by region is not the answer. I know viewing numbers add up to cash dollars.... but in the long run I like the strength of identity. And though the Big 12 has changed flavors it still has some bones left that connects history and region.

Just look at our rivalry with Mizzou. It was building into one of the top college basketball rivalries before it dissolved. And now that it has been realized how important it was... they are trying to rebuild it. Not such an easy task... though we see the attempt.

The big $$$ in our conference ALWAYS related to rivalries. Am I the only one who remembered when the Big 8 largely controlled college football with NU/OU games? Had we "kept it real" and stuck together through all of this conference shift garbage we would own college sports today, regardless of the viewing numbers because those big games were MONSTER games that attract the entire USA!

I miss those days... and I hate the idea that we become some kind of begging orphan sister to another conference we have ZERO identity with.

Hey.... screw it... let's go independent. Use our football program strictly as a revenue source finding opponents who fill stadiums and wanting an easy win. Stop dreaming like Kansas football is coming back to something real.

Our basketball program can start looking more like the Harlem Globetrotters.... traveling the nation playing ranked teams only. Talk about gaining a recruiting edge... we become the "elite of the elite" by only playing Top 20-25 teams. The money will be outrageous. Our entire schedule will be on ESPN. Our SOS will guarantee us a 1-seed every March... and we won't get stuck playing in stupid conference tournaments before March Madness. We take time to heal and rest before we go into the big tournament to DOMINATE!

If we are going to leave our history/identity behind, then lets really leave it and go for a real cash in! These super conferences are absolutely stupid!

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

I openly admit to having little knowledge in these conference shakeouts. But my gut says to NOT PANIC and get into death deals. I feel like being part of a super conference is an absolute disaster. No more solid conference home/away round robins stinks. And the answer to split up conference by region is not the answer. I know viewing numbers add up to cash dollars.... but in the long run I like the strength of identity. And though the Big 12 has changed flavors it still has some bones left that connects history and region.

Just look at our rivalry with Mizzou. It was building into one of the top college basketball rivalries before it dissolved. And now that it has been realized how important it was... they are trying to rebuild it. Not such an easy task... though we see the attempt.

The big $$$ in our conference ALWAYS related to rivalries. Am I the only one who remembered when the Big 8 largely controlled college football with NU/OU games? Had we "kept it real" and stuck together through all of this conference shift garbage we would own college sports today, regardless of the viewing numbers because those big games were MONSTER games that attract the entire USA!

I miss those days... and I hate the idea that we become some kind of begging orphan sister to another conference we have ZERO identity with.

Hey.... screw it... let's go independent. Use our football program strictly as a revenue source finding opponents who fill stadiums and wanting an easy win. Stop dreaming like Kansas football is coming back to something real.

Our basketball program can start looking more like the Harlem Globetrotters.... traveling the nation playing ranked teams only. Talk about gaining a recruiting edge... we become the "elite of the elite" by only playing Top 20-25 teams. The money will be outrageous. Our entire schedule will be on ESPN. Our SOS will guarantee us a 1-seed every March... and we won't get stuck playing in stupid conference tournaments before March Madness. We take time to heal and rest before we go into the big tournament to DOMINATE!

If we are going to leave our history/identity behind, then lets really leave it and go for a real cash in! These super conferences are absolutely stupid!

Well my friend , I'm afraid your on a sinking ship. Cause this with the Pac 12 is going to happen. The Big 12 is talking with these Schools tomorrow and look for it to move fast.. The Big 12 had to do something , there is no way they could just sit still and do nothing. College athletics as a whole is taking on a new face - -this or these super conferences are the future landscape , If the Big 12 didn't act then in the near future there would be no Big 12. It would crumble , and every team including KU would be left without a home and scurring to try an find some place - - any place to continue. I hope your not one that thinks we are a certain to be accepted to the Big 10 , Cause KU just like an article I read today - KU is in kind of the same boat as Oregon & Washington with the Big 10 - they are considered a tweener The Big 10 considers those Schools Oregon & Stanford s a School that does not quite bring enough value to the Market. - That's another reason the Big 10 has said they are done for now.

If Ku wouldn't of made some kind of move then we would be in the cold -playing in some mid major conference or like the Mountain West - - The AAC . Now this deal with these 4 Schools from the Pac 12 that the Big 12 is scheduled to talk to tomorrow is not a done deal - - - it's a done deal. Pretty much word is everyone who is anyone feels like this is what needs to be done. - -Sorry buddy but I'd much rather be this way and on or solid footing then the other option

@jayballer67

Why don't we go independent? Our basketball is going to SUFFER making a move like this. We need to hire-in marketing gurus in the AD and go after big independent bucks.... we then share with no one.

We tie in with Pac12 we will take a monster hit. It's such a bad kneejerk reaction. The big money deal is a dream. No one east of Colorado wants to stay awake late at night to watch KU play Washington (beyond KU diehard).

In all of this, it's worthwhile to keep in mind that there are two discussions: "What's best for the Big12" and "What's best for KU". Ideally, we should not conflate these two things because they are not always aligned and may lead to separate outcomes.

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67

Why don't we go independent? Our basketball is going to SUFFER making a move like this. We need to hire-in marketing gurus in the AD and go after big independent bucks.... we then share with no one.

We tie in with Pac12 we will take a monster hit. It's such a bad kneejerk reaction. The big money deal is a dream. No one east of Colorado wants to stay awake late at night to watch KU play Washington (beyond KU diehard).

Can't really answer that , as far s our Basketball teams taking a hit - -not really that sure. - With the Schools that have been added or considering being added - -I'd say were fine. - We are gaining Arizona & Houston BOTH better then Oklahoma and Texas in quality of play. It might be idealistice to be independent and play a schedule like you talk about but not realistic -- KU would be committing suicide to try and play that kind of a schedule if your looking at it from a KU stand point and not a League standpoint - - No matter who KU plays you would be surprised at the National media they pull no matter who they play. - -Ku is BLUEBLOOD AAS BLUEBLLOOD can be in Basketball. - -People want to see really good basketball , your true College fan loves seeing Blue Blood basketball. So to say Ku would be or suffer don't think is necessarily true. - We will have quality teams in this league more then offset losing Tex and OU to the SEC

Again Arizona - - Houston - - & Even Cincinnati are good quality with Houston and Arizona being better then Tex & Houston in Basketball -- don't really think KU Basketball will suffr as much as you beleive

@drgnslayr This is starting to look like the formation of two super conferences and the rest being minor players unable to attract enough eyeballs. I don’t like it but there’s a real chance that KU ends up being one of those minor players. It would seem that the best case scenario for KU long term would be to get picked up by one of those super conferences, preferably the B1G. UCLA and USC going to the B1G is not simply a shot across the bow, but more like general war with the B1G and the SEC brushing aside the collateral damage they’re responsible for. And if things keep going in the direction they seem to be going, being an independent isn’t that crazy of an idea.

@rocketdog The point about eyeballs is a critical one. While the both the SEC and B10 have the big media deals, its actually the B10 which now has a much larger media market footprint, including the top 3 (NY, LA and Chicago). The SEC is actually behind others in shear eyeball reach. And, those two and the ACC overlap in markets to a significant extent. I would argue that combining the right B12 and Pac12 schools could result in pretty strong media market footprint, with 5 of the top 12 and 11 of the top 36, many of them that would not have cross-competition. That would mean adding Arizona/Phoenix, Colorado/Denver, either Stanford or Cal/Bay Area, Oregon/Portland and Washington/Seattle to pair with Houston, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Orlando, KC, SLC, and Cincinatti (the latter 3 are top 36), plus some of Sacramento and San Antonio. It won't be close to the B10, but its not nothing. It would dominate the center of the country to the west (ex LA).

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

I openly admit to having little knowledge in these conference shakeouts. But my gut says to NOT PANIC and get into death deals. I feel like being part of a super conference is an absolute disaster. No more solid conference home/away round robins stinks. And the answer to split up conference by region is not the answer. I know viewing numbers add up to cash dollars.... but in the long run I like the strength of identity. And though the Big 12 has changed flavors it still has some bones left that connects history and region.

Just look at our rivalry with Mizzou. It was building into one of the top college basketball rivalries before it dissolved. And now that it has been realized how important it was... they are trying to rebuild it. Not such an easy task... though we see the attempt.

The big $$$ in our conference ALWAYS related to rivalries. Am I the only one who remembered when the Big 8 largely controlled college football with NU/OU games? Had we "kept it real" and stuck together through all of this conference shift garbage we would own college sports today, regardless of the viewing numbers because those big games were MONSTER games that attract the entire USA!

I miss those days... and I hate the idea that we become some kind of begging orphan sister to another conference we have ZERO identity with.

Hey.... screw it... let's go independent. Use our football program strictly as a revenue source finding opponents who fill stadiums and wanting an easy win. Stop dreaming like Kansas football is coming back to something real.

Our basketball program can start looking more like the Harlem Globetrotters.... traveling the nation playing ranked teams only. Talk about gaining a recruiting edge... we become the "elite of the elite" by only playing Top 20-25 teams. The money will be outrageous. Our entire schedule will be on ESPN. Our SOS will guarantee us a 1-seed every March... and we won't get stuck playing in stupid conference tournaments before March Madness. We take time to heal and rest before we go into the big tournament to DOMINATE!

If we are going to leave our history/identity behind, then lets really leave it and go for a real cash in! These super conferences are absolutely stupid!

Nobody will pay jack for an independent basketball program, and we won’t be able to get games from January on. Conferences and the networks won’t bend over backwards to schedule breaks so KU can come play in their sandbox. It would be the death of KU sports as nationally relevant.

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/eb/11/DAB2B33D-7A00-4B04-81F7-45EC6DAFA7D8/Image-1.heic

So we were third in revenue. Way higher then other big 12 teams. AAU membership and we have a lot of the KC market, which sure isn’t huge but still a decent market that the big ten doesn’t have…. I guess I don’t get how Bball doesn’t play into this. So all of these TV deals that are driving this are only football related. Literally one of the most televised things in the winter is college Bball. College football doesn’t carry the whole winter. So the UK vs KU Bball matchups have no value over a mediocre Iowa football team vs ucla football? Like I get getting the best football you can, but duke ku etc have such a Bball following. How would that not drive the needle a bit for the TV contracts, to include KU vs ucla, KU MsU etc

@jayhawks2010 said in Big 12 Expansion:

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/eb/11/DAB2B33D-7A00-4B04-81F7-45EC6DAFA7D8/Image-1.heic

So we were third in revenue. Way higher then other big 12 teams. AAU membership and we have a lot of the KC market, which sure isn’t huge but still a decent market that the big ten doesn’t have…. I guess I don’t get how Bball doesn’t play into this. So all of these TV deals that are driving this are only football related. Literally one of the most televised things in the winter is college Bball. College football doesn’t carry the whole winter. So the UK vs KU Bball matchups have no value over a mediocre Iowa football team vs ucla football? Like I get getting the best football you can, but duke ku etc have such a Bball following. How would that not drive the needle a bit for the TV contracts, to include KU vs ucla, KU MsU etc

It's not that college basketball has no value, but it's much less than college football. Duke and Kentucky are the only genuine needle movers in college basketball. There were only 8 regular college basketball games that topped 2 million viewers and Duke and Kentucky played in 6 of those games and the other two were lead ins to NFL Playoff games. College football had 100 more games top 2 million viewers for regular season games. There is a lot more money in college football than college basketball.

What about the ACC and Big East teams?

@Texas-Hawk-10

Probably so. But basketball does have more games and more nights throughout the week. Like football has pretty much one day, so a one day game might have more, but what about the cumulative effect of a whole week of games. I get that it doesn’t matter compared to Football but I feel like it still has television value when it’s like literally the only thing on outside of the nfl Jan-March. Anyway hopefully it all works out

@jayhawks2010 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Texas-Hawk-10

Probably so. But basketball does have more games and more nights throughout the week. Like football has pretty much one day, so a one day game might have more, but what about the cumulative effect of a whole week of games. I get that it doesn’t matter compared to Football but I feel like it still has television value when it’s like literally the only thing on outside of the nfl Jan-March. Anyway hopefully it all works out

It's not literally the only thing on after football from Jan.-March. The NBA and NHL are also both going strong at that point and each averaged quite a bit higher numbers than college basketball for their nationally broadcast games which were on basically every night.

@jayhawks2010 said in Big 12 Expansion:

file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/eb/11/DAB2B33D-7A00-4B04-81F7-45EC6DAFA7D8/Image-1.heic

So we were third in revenue. Way higher then other big 12 teams. AAU membership and we have a lot of the KC market, which sure isn’t huge but still a decent market that the big ten doesn’t have…. I guess I don’t get how Bball doesn’t play into this. So all of these TV deals that are driving this are only football related. Literally one of the most televised things in the winter is college Bball. College football doesn’t carry the whole winter. So the UK vs KU Bball matchups have no value over a mediocre Iowa football team vs ucla football? Like I get getting the best football you can, but duke ku etc have such a Bball following. How would that not drive the needle a bit for the TV contracts, to include KU vs ucla, KU MsU etc

An additional point, the conferences own all the college football revenue pie. The NCAA owns the most valuable property: the NCAA Tournament. Once the conferences get ahold of that you’ll see KU’s value skyrocket.

Sure other things are on, nba and nhl. nba does have their time slot on espn etc. but espn, fox, cbs devote a ton of main tv nights showing college basketball. If it had very little coverage/following they would show way more nba games but they don’t. College Bball would be only on espn 2 or plus. Pretty much all Monday-Wednesday on espn, espn 2, espn + etc is college Bball. Almost all Saturday is college basketball. Big portion of Sunday for the big ten is on cbs. Most of the nba is on tnt.

@jayhawks2010 Your analysis is correct, but that saturation of college games is precisely why KU would not command a massive audience in the regular season. Too many other choices.

I think the bottom line is , that we as fans can try and twist things around , wish , hope , , talking about why being independent would work- - the fact is these super conferences are now a reality - -this is the future for football & College sports it's just the fact of life now.

We can complain & wish all we want about KU not merging , KU becoming an independent KU going to the BIG - -thing is IT'S NOT HAPENING Or as far as the BIG goes not happening for some time to come. - We just don't bring enough Market value for them to invite. - You can argue all you want. - -If they are not adding Stanford & Washington calling them tweeners where they don't bring enough value- -then they sure the hell aren't inviting KU for some time

The Big 12 & KU by talking with these Pac 12 4 Schools is doing what they need to do at this time. We CAN NOT just sit still and do nothing If they did then the Big 12 would be screwed and would be a thing of the past. Then we would have to hang onto our butts and hope to GOD for the best. - This at the present time anyways is about the best scenario - either add these 4 Schools OR just merge total with the PAC 12 we become that 3rd Conference

So I read where the law makers is Washington & Oregon that said there was a movement to emphasize to put tax pyers and public not wanting to split PAC 12 public Schools. - If they are successful that would force Oregon State? Oregon & Washington State & Washington together - you take one - -you take them both or not at all.

I'm sur the Big 10 would neve accept that as it waters down the amount for evey school because WSU & OSU for sur do not bring enough market value.

This in turn may add more credence to the Big 12 ? Pac 12 joinging together/merging as a mega conference - merging together and having all of these schools come together

Read Dennis Dodds latest from like a half hour ago. - -Saying the Big 12 was in DEEP discussions with the Pac 12 of adding at least 4 teams to the Big 12 , could be more- - -maybe 6 with Washinton & Oregon. -Talking about how the big 12 has a small lean in their favor with the two leagues

Seems like we might hear about Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, & Utah first. Oregon and Washington later on, perhaps waiting to see what Notre Dame does. If everything moves forward as rumored I'm really liking how things are shaping up for the Big12.

Also, Utah fans are something else. Had no idea. If they join this will take some getting used to.

@RockkChalkk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Also, Utah fans are something else. Had no idea. If they join this will take some getting used to.

Sounds like Arizona State fans are a piece of cake also

@RockkChalkk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Seems like we might hear about Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, & Utah first. Oregon and Washington later on, perhaps waiting to see what Notre Dame does. If everything moves forward as rumored I'm really liking how things are shaping up for the Big12.

Yea if that is how this shakes out, I'll be very happy. What would the Vegas odds of the B12 surviving another round of expansion after the OU/UT fiasco?

I would have said 100 - 1 no chance in Hell the B12 would survive as a power conference. But here we are about to poach from the Pac12.

Would LOVE some commentary from Bill Walton right about now.

Any guesses how soon this gets done with these 4 Schools ? - -End of the week ?

I'd caution everyone not to count our eggs before they hatch. This has the feel of something that could fall through. There hasn't been a ton of reporting about it, just the same rumor/tip being repeated over and over, not a lot of hard facts to go off of.

This has all the feeling of my son and him collecting Pokemon cards.

What would happen if we ditch football? It's a huge loser for us and why not focus our AD on more productive sports. Then we go independent in basketball with the goal to truly become "America's team."

@Texas-Hawk-10 opened my eyes to our potential hit in academic programs and I do consider that a major consideration.

What happens when we think "outside of the box?" Big 10 inclusion is not going to happen and we waste our time having thoughts like that.

We form a union with the west and what happens (besides playing games late at night with viewership #s down)? If we are desperately seeking the financial strength of a conference... will this bring it to us? All I see is suddenly we are playing a bunch of games out west, when TV viewership drops considerably. Why do we win with that?

What could we be without football? Obviously, we won't be able to join these two super conferences (that aren't asking us anyways). If we didn't have the drain of football on our AD what could we become in many other sports? Since Kansas basketball is a well-known brand... why couldn't we be independent and draw home/away serious with most of the top teams? How would that work financially? Couldn't individual sports join conference memberships independently?

@RockkChalkk said in Big 12 Expansion:

I'd caution everyone not to count our eggs before they hatch. This has the feel of something that could fall through. There hasn't been a ton of reporting about it, just the same rumor/tip being repeated over and over, not a lot of hard facts to go off of.

Colorado Board of regents has a meeting scheduled from between 5:30 & 7 tonight - -not off an site but off offical Web site - -pulled this of post from Baylor board. - Now does this have to do with the talks we had today ? - - hmmmm

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

This has all the feeling of my son and him collecting Pokemon cards.

What would happen if we ditch football? It's a huge loser for us and why not focus our AD on more productive sports. Then we go independent in basketball with the goal to truly become "America's team."

@Texas-Hawk-10 opened my eyes to our potential hit in academic programs and I do consider that a major consideration.

What happens when we think "outside of the box?" Big 10 inclusion is not going to happen and we waste our time having thoughts like that.

We form a union with the west and what happens (besides playing games late at night with viewership #s down)? If we are desperately seeking the financial strength of a conference... will this bring it to us? All I see is suddenly we are playing a bunch of games out west, when TV viewership drops considerably. Why do we win with that?

What could we be without football? Obviously, we won't be able to join these two super conferences (that aren't asking us anyways). If we didn't have the drain of football on our AD what could we become in many other sports? Since Kansas basketball is a well-known brand... why couldn't we be independent and draw home/away serious with most of the top teams? How would that work financially? Couldn't individual sports join conference memberships independently?

I think FarmerJayhawk pretty well answered your question about going independent in Basketball. -- -Conferenes and networks aren't going to do any KU favors in the middle of the season and schedule just so we can play them KU going indepedent would be suicide for our program just not workable

Funny story: a bunch of Az Mildcat fans are going on the Phog and hoping and praying they get invited to the B12. They want to play Kansas, and they are excited about it! That's going to be a hell of a basketball league- KU, Baylor, Az, Houston were all Top 10 last year. I think we'll hear very shortly we have AZ, Az St, Utah and Colorado going to the B12. Don't quote me on it- I have a strong hunch.

@drgnslayr are you Lew Perkins?

@Crimsonorblue22

Ha... Actually, I knew Lew.

I'm expressing my complete frustration with this entire bs. No amount of money is going to put a shine on this turd.

Can't we bring in some Russian and Chinese teams to our conference? They can draw in millions of viewers and we'll be RICH! lol

@jayballer67

Why wouldn't they schedule in a team that would lift their SOS, regardless of the time of year? Their current conference is nothing but a joke anyways. lol

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67

Why wouldn't they schedule in a team that would lift their SOS, regardless of the time of year? Their current conference is nothing but a joke anyways. lol

Nobody is scheduling a random non-con game in February. The money would be terrible, Self would leave, and the program would effectively die. There would be no incentive for, say, Purdue to play KU in February. You’d have to disrupt the regular league schedule or add a game midweek. Which the conferences just won’t do and 3 games in a week just for fun would be not intelligent scheduling. There are good reasons why the last independent joined a conference in 2016. Go look at NJIT’s schedule that last year. Sometimes they played back to back nights, sometimes it was almost 2 weeks between games. Good luck selling season tickets or recruiting when you have no idea when or who we’re playing until the summer.

And that’s not even going into where you park other sports. Or we just drop all but football, basketball, and women’s rowing to meet Title IX compliance. I know some want to drop football and be Gonzaga of the Big East. Which would involve an almost 90% cut to tv revenue. Good luck keeping Self happy, being competitive with NIL, and keeping facilities upgraded with less than $5m per year coming in from TV.

Now they're talking about the pac 12 leftovers joining the ACC.

We should merge with the Pac12 and ACC and rename it the Continental Conference. Great players could be named All-Continent.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why the Pac 12 talking heads are having such a hard time accepting the Big 12. they snubbed us before when some big 12 teams were possibly thinking about merging and now these same dam people are turning their noses when there is talk of some Pac 12 teams coming to the Big 12.

Still with the ACC reading their boards and for the most part Arizona and State fans think this talk of a loose parentship with the ACC would be a joke and not the answer to the money situation.

My question now becomes though if the Pac 12 does form this relationship with the ACC then what happens with us ? - -Doesn't paint a very pretty picture and again NO the chances of KU getting an invite to the glamorous BIG is a very remote possibility as they other schools still in line for invites before KU

Well read this from TOS Greg Swaim tweeted out : " The Big 12 has made their offer to the six Schools in the Pac 12 very clear and has detailed Fox TV numbes to go with it. - - Understand that this offer has expiration date of 30 days. - - -Farmer , what you think ? - -any validity to this have you heard anything ?

I know from reading boards still lots of Arizona - -Arizona St and Utah fans thinking the best move would be for them to join Big 12 - -just don't know how much truth there is in this but on the other hand I've never heard of the guy but same goes FOR NOT being true.

Read an article saying that ESPN owns the shabang with the ACc and that the PAC 12 & the ACC hooking up really wouldn't make much of difference money wise. - let me hear your thoughts farmer

@mayjay

Or even bigger...

"One World Conference!"

Just in case we expand to international partners!

Well I'm not feeling nearly as confident as I was earlier. Just listened to Matt Brown from the extra point , and he was saying that from the athletic directors he had talked to about how the Big 12 was in the drivers seat and that it was a close to anything the PAC 12 AD'S were saying Whoaaa not so fast that their weren't really any serious discussions and not really that sure about this whole Arizona and group joining If it does happen they said it's going to be awhile it's not something that is going to happen soon.

He said he really didn't think the Big 12 was in the drivers seat saying really he doesn't think there was going to be any more re-alignment or merging until he siad he thinks it's going to take until Norte Dame makes up their mind what they are going to do. - After they decide then we very well could see the next Domino fall. - He sure wasn't as positive about the Big 12 getting these teams from the Pac 12 as was thought

I understand the PAC12 is going into television rights negotiations 2 years early to get a value on their remaining teams. Remaining teams may want to hear that before deciding. I’m thinking this will be a drawn out process.

@Gorilla72 said in Big 12 Expansion:

I understand the PAC12 is going into television rights negotiations 2 years early to get a value on their remaining teams. Remaining teams may want to hear that before deciding. I’m thinking this will be a drawn out process.

That's the whole purpose of them opening their negotiations up early so they can make some kind of counter offer to whatever the Big 12 presented yesterday. I still think at the end of the day, 4 teams moving to the Big 12 is the most likely and I could see Oregon and Washington following USC and UCLA to the Big 10 once Notre Dame makes their decision.

Personally, I think all Notre Dame's decision does is affect how big the Big 10 goes in expansion. If Notre Dame says yes, not as difficult as what some may think, then the Big 10 adds 4 more to get to 20 so they'd be looking for a 4th school, which KU should fight tooth and nail to try and be. If Notre Dame says no, then I think the Big 10 only adds two more being Oregon and Washington.

Getting this from Baylor board. ( Jim Hill from CBS sports at 6 p.m. reported that Oregon & Washington are also in discussion with Big 12. Hill also mentioned that Phil Knight ( Nike Owner ) and huge booster for Oregon wants to follow USc & UCLA to the BIG or move to the SEC.

2 out of the 6 schools came out today and said they were committed to Pac 12 - ( Arizona State & Utah )

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

Well read this from TOS Greg Swaim tweeted out : " The Big 12 has made their offer to the six Schools in the Pac 12 very clear and has detailed Fox TV numbes to go with it. - - Understand that this offer has expiration date of 30 days. - - -Farmer , what you think ? - -any validity to this have you heard anything ?

I know from reading boards still lots of Arizona - -Arizona St and Utah fans thinking the best move would be for them to join Big 12 - -just don't know how much truth there is in this but on the other hand I've never heard of the guy but same goes FOR NOT being true.

Read an article saying that ESPN owns the shabang with the ACc and that the PAC 12 & the ACC hooking up really wouldn't make much of difference money wise. - let me hear your thoughts farmer

The Big 12 is trying to get the 6 attainable big dogs in the PAC: 4 corners + Oregon and Washington. I don’t think Stanford and Cal are interested.

Some PAC 12 presidents would much rather be associated with the ACC than Big 12. Which is fair. The ACC is a terrific academic league with UNC, dook, UVA, GA Tech. All well above anything the Big 12 has to offer. Smart financially? No. But they have huge endowments and can sacrifice some revenue for academics. KU? Not so much.

I'll remain the barking dog... but I appreciate all the opinions here because it educates me on this disgusting topic. Thank you!

Question: Does any of this challenge antitrust laws? Do antitrust laws still exist? I realize conferences represent associations versus buyouts.... but still....

The only expansion I'm concerned about is my waistline.

Here is a list of the best remaining teams we can scrap for:

https://www.boardingschoolreview.com/basketball-boarding-school-sports ↗

(sarcasm... as usual)

Apparently North Carolina, Florida State, Clemson, and Virginia are in talks to join the SEC. If it happens it could open up a whole other can of worms with the ACC leftovers. The possibilities seem endless. Teams like Pitt, Miami, NC State, Duke, Louisville, etc. could start to be looked at.

Wake me when it's over... 😵

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

I'll remain the barking dog... but I appreciate all the opinions here because it educates me on this disgusting topic. Thank you!

Question: Does any of this challenge antitrust laws? Do antitrust laws still exist? I realize conferences represent associations versus buyouts.... but still....

I have to imagine that behind the scenes there is a massive breach of contract going on at the very least. My gut tells me something illegal, but who is going to speak up about it? Schools aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them, ya know?

KU isn't going to sue ESPN for tampering because they still need ESPN.

@RockkChalkk

Wow... I'd feel much better about going east than west! Bring these teams into the Big12!

How about we name our new conference "F*CK THE SEC!"

@RockkChalkk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Apparently North Carolina, Florida State, Clemson, and Virginia are in talks to join the SEC. If it happens it could open up a whole other can of worms with the ACC leftovers. The possibilities seem endless. Teams like Pitt, Miami, NC State, Duke, Louisville, etc. could start to be looked at.

ya I'm hearing this too. - -SEC talking to ESPN or whoever it is about getting this GOR void for these ACC teams. They were talking saying if this happens would really help big 12 cause forcing the Pac 12 Schools plus possibly looking at Louisville & Miami from the ACC. - I can't keep up with this anymore just crazy.

Like one said though you can say good bye to March Madness

@drgnslayr said in Big 12 Expansion:

@RockkChalkk

Wow... I'd feel much better about going east than west! Bring these teams into the Big12!

How about we name our new conference "F*CK THE SEC!"

Some talk I've seen too that if this were to happen possibility of Louisville & Miami from the imploded ACC

🦗 🦗 🤦‍♂️ the suspense is once again killing me.

Well after all the hub bub looks like the PAC 12 is sticking together

@jayballer67 I haven't seen anything to indicate that. Actually quite the opposite, lots of indications that the Big 12 will be expanding again soon and are trying to pull at least a few PAC 12 teams. Things just don't move as fast as we'd like. There are a lot of dynamics that need to be sorted out.

@RockkChalkk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 I haven't seen anything to indicate that. Actually quite the opposite, lots of indications that the Big 12 will be expanding again soon and are trying to pull at least a few PAC 12 teams. Things just don't move as fast as we'd like. There are a lot of dynamics that need to be sorted out.

Oh ya I've seen multiple , multiple articles about how the PAC 12 is going to stick together or try and stick together. - -You can go on almost any PAC 12 message boards and there wil be posts or links where the Commissioner or others are talking about they not going any where and gonna stick it out.

Now that's not saying that's how it's gonna turn out. I think we could get a couple of teams at least anyways from the PAC 12. I think Arizona WANTS to come , I think Colorado is looking for an escape - BUT from what I have read off multiple articles Utah is not crazy about coming to the Big 12 - - Arizona State fans come across to me like they think they are better then the Big 12.

The talk is with if Oregon & Washington don't get that invite to the BIg which that's not happening they are not going there right now anyways - -so if they stay in the Pac 12 it might be just for a short time but the article is saying it will give the league time to figure out what they are going to do.

It's a mess but I wouldn't say for the Big 12 that anything with the PAc is etched in stone by a longs ways - maybe we can - -maybe we don't - Some figure we will have a lot better read on how it will play out by the time they break camp for the Season we will see - -Nothing gonna happen for a while

The good news is that the Big 12 has the upper hand. That's certainly not everyone's shared opinion, but its a majority opinion from what I can gather. Big 12 is currently evaluating their options, has gotten many calls about joining, however has not sent any official invites out yet.

Its hard to really know but I also think Arizona and Colorado are going to end up joining. I think Oregon holds a lot of power too. They obviously want into the Big 10 but the Big 10 has basically said no for now so now they need to weigh their options. It should be noted that Oregon did not issue an official statement about staying in the PAC 12. If Oregon were to switch to the Big 12 that would probably break the PAC 12 because we'd likely see Washington and the four corner schools do the same.

Assuming ACC schools are locked up with GOR for now, a few other schools that could be in the mix are SMU and Memphis. Might see one of them if say Colorado is the only PAC 12 team wanting to break away and the BIG 12 wants to keep numbers even.

@RockkChalkk The PAC 12 schools are going to wait and see what happens with the new TV deals they and Big 12 are working on which is the smart way to go. If you're officials at Arizona, Arizona St., Oregon, Colorado, Utah, and Washington, you'd definitely want to know what those potential values are before making a decision about the long term future of a school. I think it's more likely we see movement next year after each league gets their project TV deal packages which for the Big 12 will likely include values if they stay at 12, or go to 16 or 18 with the potential PAC 12 school additions.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yeah thats definitely possible. There are models that use historical data and market share that can provide projections for what those numbers will be though. Not exact but ballpark. It might be enough information that schools don't need to wait until its finalized in order to make a decision. I've heard there is one network interested in the PAC 10 deal. I've heard there are at least two that have expressed desire for a Big 12 deal. Always a benefit to have multiple bidders! The projections that are out there show PAC 10 at around $40M per school and Big 12 at about $51M per school. Its also been suggested that Oregon & Washington would likely demand a larger share of the PAC revenue to stay which adds another wrinkle to that formula.

Further, there are other dynamics like air times, PAC games not being seen by large sections of the country due to time zones and kickoff times is always going to suppress potential viewership. Another interesting variable in play is culture/politics. Some states/schools/conferences are quicker than others to cancel events, limit crowds if another covid-like event was to happen. For example, no fans at football games in California is a lot of potential lost revenue for both schools. I could see that weighing on the minds of more reddish states like Arizona, Colorado, Utah, etc. Maybe its not a coincidence that the heaviest rumored schools to join the BIG 12 from the PAC are from states furthest to the right politically.

I find this whole topic of conference realignment so interesting. Anxious to see where the chips fall!

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@RockkChalkk The PAC 12 schools are going to wait and see what happens with the new TV deals they and Big 12 are working on which is the smart way to go. If you're officials at Arizona, Arizona St., Oregon, Colorado, Utah, and Washington, you'd definitely want to know what those potential values are before making a decision about the long term future of a school. I think it's more likely we see movement next year after each league gets their project TV deal packages which for the Big 12 will likely include values if they stay at 12, or go to 16 or 18 with the potential PAC 12 school additions.

Was listening to the pod cast of Arizona or one of the pac 12's. - -Heard that Fox is declining to bid on the Pac 12 network. Which means if ESPN is the sole bidder then the Pac 12 is in trouble , they come in and low ball the Pac 12 and you will see Schools bailing out and bailing out fast. -- Feeling is CBS is going to be on the Big 12

Also read/ heard that Fox & CBs Both appears likely to bid on the Big 12. Saying Fox has every incentive to drive the best Pac 12 Schools to the Big 12 to increase their return and cut ESPN off from late night inventory.

Multiple sources I've heard/read have also said they think that we won't know anything till after this coming football Season after that they think you will see game on.. In the end I think we will end up more likely then not with at least Arizona & Colorado. They were talking like Arizona really wants out and may even it it happens they would try and come by theirselves if the have to. They like others have said if Oregon & Washington are trying to hold out for an invite to the BIG , they very easily could be waiting for awhile , as the BIG isn't looking to add they thinking for like two years and then it will be Norte Dame. - They just say Oregon and Washington are tweeneres and just don't bring enough market value to the conference for the league to have to give them a slice of the pie.

Really good article in The Athletic on the new Big 12 commissioner. He plans on being active and taking the initiative in all areas, including expansion. He’s already working of the Big 12 but doesn’t start contractually until August. Active, instead of “reactive”! Refreshing.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Nobody is scheduling a random non-con game in February. The money would be terrible, Self would leave, and the program would effectively die. There would be no incentive for, say, Purdue to play KU in February. You’d have to disrupt the regular league schedule or add a game midweek. Which the conferences just won’t do and 3 games in a week just for fun would be not intelligent scheduling. There are good reasons why the last independent joined a conference in 2016. Go look at NJIT’s schedule that last year. Sometimes they played back to back nights, sometimes it was almost 2 weeks between games. Good luck selling season tickets or recruiting when you have no idea when or who we’re playing until the summer.
And that’s not even going into where you park other sports. Or we just drop all but football, basketball, and women’s rowing to meet Title IX compliance. I know some want to drop football and be Gonzaga of the Big East. Which would involve an almost 90% cut to tv revenue. Good luck keeping Self happy, being competitive with NIL, and keeping facilities upgraded with less than $5m per year coming in from TV.

Good points!

This has all become about dollars and cents... I feel like there is more to this.

I'm in my 60s... and changes like this can be challenging. I have over half a century of experiencing Kansas sports and with many of the teams we may be saying goodbye to. It was devastating to me to say goodbye to OU. I've been an OU fan all my life, too. It seems like fanbase demographics are important.

Social changes... are schools or fanbases going to fight it out over Roe or climate change? hmmmm...

If a tornado wipes out half of Lawrence, does other members of our conference and their fanbases give a rat's ass?

Are rivalries now officially dead?

I wonder what my perspective would be if I was 40-years younger? More accepting of these big changes?

My son is 8. He asked me about my financial investments returns over the two Covid years. He showed to me some general returns of Pokemon cards during those two years. "Dad... did your investments return 600% growth like my Pokemon cards did?" So I'm thinking... this genius is onto something. Now that we have NIL... why don't we create college sports cards like the old baseball cards? If no other conference wants us we will make up the $ with sales of very rare Kansas basketball player cards! lol

Thanks to everyone for posting news and ideas... I feel blindsided by most of this! Have a great weekend!

Is Jay-Z coming along for the ride?

@drgnslayr

Like this??
!b6e3b2d9-efa1-4403-8bae-fc59cef63d55-image.png ↗

Also, there's this:
https://throughthephog.com/2022/06/17/new-kansas-basketball-football-trading-cards/ ↗

https://www.fanaticsinc.com/press-releases/fanatics-collectibles-and-topps-announce-comprehensive-college-trading-cards-program-with-more-than-100-new-university-partnerships ↗

In this brave new world, it's all about your brand value. Our NC came at the most opportune time.

Bowman University has some nice cards of Braun, Ochai, Remmy, Wilson, and McCormack. No Harris, but a freshman or two made it - Clemence. I imagine the players got paid for their image and autographs. Great timing to win a ‘chip! Hopefully it will be a recruiting win.

@bskeet

Sweet! Thanks!

So it's looking like qw will know nothing for some time to come.

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

So it's looking like qw will know nothing for some time to come.

Not so fast my friend! https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/ ↗

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

So it's looking like qw will know nothing for some time to come.

Not so fast my friend! https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/ ↗

Hmmmm, the plot looks to be thickening

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

So it's looking like qw will know nothing for some time to come.

Not so fast my friend! https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/ ↗

Are we joining the Notre Dame conference then?

ESPN reported that the Big12 told the Pac12 that there was not enough revenue to warrant a merger.. so allegedly, they have stopped talks.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34264518/sources-big-12-pac-12-partner-talks-officially-end ↗

Yeah.

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

ESPN reported that the Big12 told the Pac12 that there was not enough revenue to warrant a merger.. so allegedly, they have stopped talks.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34264518/sources-big-12-pac-12-partner-talks-officially-end ↗

Yeah.

Time to go full send. Add the top 6 (4 corners + Oregon and Washington) and tell the rest they’re on their own.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Not so fast my friend! https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/ ↗

"Outgoing Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby had not heard anything specific on NBC targeting the Big 12 for additional programming but said such a move "makes sense." "

Wow! Business at this level without communication. Hum. Sounds more like NBC is just using the Big 12 for negotiation cover but not actually interested. Maybe just having Notre Dame is worth more than filling in with the Big 12.

I think Bowlsby should have kept quiet. His comments reflect poorly on the Big 12 and also throw network tv (NBC) under the bus by showing their bluff. Since he's days away from leaving, you would think he would just be a shadow now and not doing anything to impact the Big 12 future.

"For weeks, it was believed that the so-called “four corners schools” — Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah — could be at the top of the Big 12’s wish list if it were to target the Pac-12 for expansion candidates." ~ KUSports.com

So we shuffle in these schools then we split for the Big 10 later? lol This is so f-ed up even alcohol can't ease the pain! lol

How about all D1 schools just join the SEC? Essentially... we let the SEC usurp all powers of the NCAA as they then decide to bail out of it! lol

@drgnslayr It sounds like the TV market for the B12 is better than most were expecting.

And then it sounds like Notre Dame is looking to secure an insane TV deal, and if they do they'll remain an independent (for now).

To me, that puts a pause on the B10 trying to poach anyone else. And I think it will allow the B12 to go after UW and Oregon first. But I have to wonder how the politics behind the scenes change that. Without knowing the structure of the BOR in each state, will they let Oregon leave without taking OSU? Can Washington leave without taking WSU?

If you HAVE to take the "State" schools with Washington and Oregon, is that a better or worse package than AZ, ASU, CU and Utah?

Sitting at 12 right now, I think the smart move is to try and get 6 of the Pac12 schools. It would work out a pretty reasonable 2 division system of 9 schools on each side. 6 Pac12 schools plus Tech, BYU and KSU make up the West. The rest to the East.

That probably screws TTU and KSU a little bit with travel, but better to be traveling making P5 money than Mountain West...

I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.

Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.

Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.

Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.

Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.

Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.

Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.

Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.

How is Oregon not THE top choice of remaining Pac12 schools? Rabid fanbase that crushes TV ratings almost every single week. Great programs in both money sports.

@Kcmatt7 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@drgnslayr It sounds like the TV market for the B12 is better than most were expecting.

And then it sounds like Notre Dame is looking to secure an insane TV deal, and if they do they'll remain an independent (for now).

To me, that puts a pause on the B10 trying to poach anyone else. And I think it will allow the B12 to go after UW and Oregon first. But I have to wonder how the politics behind the scenes change that. Without knowing the structure of the BOR in each state, will they let Oregon leave without taking OSU? Can Washington leave without taking WSU?

If you HAVE to take the "State" schools with Washington and Oregon, is that a better or worse package than AZ, ASU, CU and Utah?

Sitting at 12 right now, I think the smart move is to try and get 6 of the Pac12 schools. It would work out a pretty reasonable 2 division system of 9 schools on each side. 6 Pac12 schools plus Tech, BYU and KSU make up the West. The rest to the East.

That probably screws TTU and KSU a little bit with travel, but better to be traveling making P5 money than Mountain West...

Not 100% absolutely sure, but I haven't seen any state requirement that Washington and Washington State have to be bound together in a move to any new conference. State politics here is such that most of the power is on the western side of the mountains, leaving WSU supporters scrambling. Don't know about Oregon, but I think it's similar.

The Seattle and Portland TV markets (#11 and #22 respectively) are much larger than Pullman/Spokane and Corvallis. And in terms of academics (remember those?), UW and U of O are well above their land-grant school counterparts at WSU and OSU. Both factors make them much more attractive to other conferences.

I could see Colorado and Arizona jump. I thought Utah and Az State had stated publicly they were staying in the Pac 12. Maybe that changes if Az and Colo come aboard.

@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.

Not saying it's right. Just saying that everything about what's going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.

Not saying it's right. Just saying that everything about what's going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.

Oregon is not to be ignored, just because of two words: Phil Knight (aka Mr. Nike). His money alone will keep the athletic program in good shape no matter where the Ducks end up. (Check out the world Track & Field championships this week on TV. That shiny new track stadium they just built is nearly all due to his money. ) He is to Oregon athletics what Boone Pickens was/is to Okie State.

As our estranged friend Jaybate once noted, those sneaker bucks and Nike's national profile speak volumes.

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.

Not saying it's right. Just saying that everything about what's going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.

It is definitely about TV sets. But Oregon has the best TV ratings by far in the Pac12.

It’s like OU. You don’t want the Oklahoma City market. You want the 1.5M-5M TV Ratings regardless of who they are playing. And that is what Oregon brings.

This whole expansion thing is crazy. I've read so many didn't articles , heard so many different people with their views , so many inside sources ( which when I say inside sources is people actually connected with different programs within the leagues & have let things leak out.

Just got through listening to another from 365 sports & they guy was being asked who he thought would be the 1st team to join the Big 12 ? He said he would hate to put percentages or numerological but like he said the ONE thing the ONE team that keeps be mentioned in every article - -every conversation is Arizona. talking like he would be shocked if Arizona wasn't. Then the next more likely then not very well could be Utah . Which kind of surprised me cause I had been hearing Colorado.

One thing is for sure the addition of teams from the PAC IS GOING TO HAPPEN. - -you can take that to the bank. When ? who knows , could be next week , could be next month , could be all the way at the end of the football season , BUT it will happen. - There is just way to much fire for it to not. - -To many sources

Like they was saying in this 365 , in the end it's everyone for themselves , they have to do what they feel is in their best interest for their athletic department , their School. When they get their answer from ESPN and how low that offer is -they gonna bail. Some reports of ESPN saying 25 million per school - -that's not going to get it done by far.

The main guy that does all the reporting for the Arizona Insider I think his name is Jason Scheer he is 100 % believes Arizona will land in the Big 12, he said from his sources saying what they have. - -He DOES say now if Arizona State doesn't come then that might cause a little different response from Arizona - -he doesn't think Arizona would leave Arizona State behind.

In the end from al I've red from all these different sites , fan posts and podcasts I've heard I think the most mentioned teams to jpin when it's all said and done would be Arizona - - Arizona Stae - - -Colorado - - Utah - -and then possibly Oregon - - -& Washington sure gonna be interesting

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.

Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.

Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.

Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12

Where do you think those two end up? Seems like they're in a really weird spot.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12

Aren't they in a bad spot now? To me, some of the old Pac12 teams may be the most vulnerable of the schools left.

I suddenly feel more positive about the Big 12.

First... are we really going to get poached again? Doubtful.

Second... we have a marketing wonk in charge and the future is only about money.

Third... we still get to beat the crap out of the purple kitties every year! lol

@Kcmatt7 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Big 12 Expansion:

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

I’m a bit perplexed why Cal-Berkeley and Stanford are not considered in at least some scenario.

Honestly, if I look at Pac12 markets of value, I think you have to pick Wash, Stanford, Cal and Arizona. If I could add 2 more it would be Oregon and Colorado.

Those six would add prestige and major markets across the west.

Cal and Stanford want no part of the Big 12

Where do you think those two end up? Seems like they're in a really weird spot.

I'm guessing Stanford goes to the Big Ten. Fits their criteria in terms of institutional profile (great academics, selective, successful Olympic sports, parter with ND). They're also so well off financially (almost a $40b endowment) they can plausibly go independent in football and park Olympic sports in the Big Ten, WCC, or Big West

Cal is the weird one. I could see them piecing together a "west coast Ivy" by joining the Big West (which is mostly UC System schools) and some other oddballs (maybe Zags for hoops?). But they're in a really tough spot. Nobody really wants them because they're a nightmare for travel and frankly don't fit culturally anywhere except maaayyyybe the ACC. There is something to the coastal elitism there. It's more rank than usual at Berkeley. I think there's a better chance they go independent than join the Big 12.

The B12 isn't likely to get poached because there is not much left worth poaching.

@bskeet said in Big 12 Expansion:

@Kcmatt7 I think Oregon is not the top P12 target because the market (Portland) is smaller than than the Bay Area, Seattle, Phoenix and Denver.

Not saying it's right. Just saying that everything about what's going on seems to be best explained through the lens of money/revenue.

No true Big 12 Network means TV market size means very little to the Big 12 and their TV negotiations which is part of why Cal and Stanford aren't being brought up much. With a true Big 12 Network, you could absolutely guarantee the Big 12 would be trying to sell those two schools and gain access to a top 10 media market in the Bay Area. Since neither school draws big ratings and the Big 12 doesn't have a network to sell to TV distributors, Cal and Stanford have very little appeal to the Big 12 just like neither school wants much to do with the Big 12.

So when these guys quit playing paddy cake with one another -Who do we think will be the 1st School to jump ship and joing the Big 12 ? - - TA DA - -from everything I've seen/heard/read - - - ARIZONA hands down

Well guys BIG rumors now to keep an eye out for the 1st week of August, Coming of Utah site and podcast talking about Colorado and Arizona looking to join or apply for acceptance by the first week of August some time.

Reports are saying Washington &Oregon like holding the Pac 12 hostage saying they want un equal shares to remain in the Pac 21. Had been some rumor that the ACC had reached out and was trying to get Washington & Oregon but guess that was not solid Also talking about reaching out to Stanford. .Saying now that Oregon & Washington say if they don't get un-equal shares they are entertaining the Big 12.

Word is an I quote " Colorado is pissed about this un-equal shares idea "

Talk also is ESPN trying to get an agreement with the pac 12 for modest amount as ESPN doesn't want to lose that late slot. - Fox HAS NO INTEREST in the PAC 12 a they are all over the SEC. .. Guess CBS wants the Big 12 as they are losing the SEC at the end of this year and want to work with the Big 12 and then have a prime time game with the Big 12 in the middle of the week like Wedns or Thursday Night.

Also talk like the Big 12 might just want TWO teams from the Pac 12 which would be Colorado & Arizona saying if they were to add FOUR teams it would cut their profits a little as where with two teams their profits actually would increase a little.. - -Who knows, but just to much smoke for nothing, Smoke coming from all directions.

Wonder if Oregon and Wash would demand higher shares in the Big 12? They might not have heard about Texas's popularity in the conference....

@jayballer67 said in Big 12 Expansion:

Well guys BIG rumors now to keep an eye out for the 1st week of August, Coming of Utah site and podcast talking about Colorado and Arizona looking to join or apply for acceptance by the first week of August some time.

Reports are saying Washington &Oregon like holding the Pac 12 hostage saying they want un equal shares to remain in the Pac 21. Had been some rumor that the ACC had reached out and was trying to get Washington & Oregon but guess that was not solid Also talking about reaching out to Stanford. .Saying now that Oregon & Washington say if they don't get un-equal shares they are entertaining the Big 12.

Word is an I quote " Colorado is pissed about this un-equal shares idea "

Talk also is ESPN trying to get an agreement with the pac 12 for modest amount as ESPN doesn't want to lose that late slot. - Fox HAS NO INTEREST in the PAC 12 a they are all over the SEC. .. Guess CBS wants the Big 12 as they are losing the SEC at the end of this year and want to work with the Big 12 and then have a prime time game with the Big 12 in the middle of the week like Wedns or Thursday Night.

Also talk like the Big 12 might just want TWO teams from the Pac 12 which would be Colorado & Arizona saying if they were to add FOUR teams it would cut their profits a little as where with two teams their profits actually would increase a little.. - -Who knows, but just to much smoke for nothing, Smoke coming from all directions.

That's what I've been reading, too. Az and Colorado, come on down!

New school in the conference "swingers swap" portal:

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@jayballer67 Unequal revenue shares are a big part of why Colorado left the Big 12 in the first place so of course they're not going to be happy about that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Big 12 Expansion:

@jayballer67 Unequal revenue shares are a big part of why Colorado left the Big 12 in the first place so of course they're not going to be happy about that.

All this does is just enhance the chances of the demise of the PAC 12 even further - -of course thats pretty much a given any ways- - just name the time sooner or later these teams going to bail