🏀 KuBuckets Archive

This is clearly going to be the biggest thing to monitor throughout the season. One thing I'll say though, I'm not worried.

We essentially have 5 guys looking to get minutes at one position. Zach, Udeh, Zuby, Cam, and KJ are all wanting to get minutes there. I can't decide if Cam coming back was the staff actually thinking he could play, or if he was basically just wanting another season with living the KU Basketball player campus life (wouldn't blame him). But I think each one of the 5 options bring something to the table the others don't.

Zach - Elite shooter for the 5 spot. Seems to play hard. But I do think he has cinderblock for feet. He provides essentially no rim protection. Truth be told, I'm not high on him at all and understand why coming out of camp they aren't committing to him immediately. BUT, I think it is hard to keep a guy off the floor who is "good enough" at a lot of things and shoots it at .400 from deep.

Udeh - The longest guy on the team for sure. Dunker of the basketball. Will absolutely provide some rim protection just being on the floor. But what I've seen so far he's just so lost that there is no chance he is the guy Bill Self closes games down with. I'm sure he'll make strides by the end of the season, but I just can't picture him getting more than 15 mpg on the high end.

Zuby - He looked like a DUDE in the scrimmage. He's built like a 6'8 linebacker. He seems like he's going to be a great college big. He seems like he "gets it" a bit more than Udeh. If I were betting today, you'll see Zuby edge Udeh out for minutes down the stretch. I can definitely see why the staff liked Zuby this last cycle and prioritized him. I do think he has a ~10% chance of being "the guy" at the 5 by the end of the season. His biggest issue: What does he do better than KJ besides be a little bit bigger?

Cam - I honestly can't believe he is still on the team. It almost leads me to believe he may find himself in a Hunter Mickelson role. He'll get some minutes this year early and see if there is any "there" there. I do think he can shoot it. But he just doesn't seem like a contributor for a National Championship contender. I'm not sure what to think of him at this point. I kind of do want to see him try to ball... But the reality is Zach is probably the same player but a little bit longer and a little bit better of a shooter. He does have 5 years of experience playing College ball though. Nobody else has that.

KJ - The guy I would say is the frontrunner to start the season at the 5? Dare I say, I LIKE IT? Talk about positionless basketball. Starting KJ gives this team a clear identity. We are a switch everything, run and gun, DEFENSE first team. Starting Harris, McCullar and KJ with each other is going to be one hell of a defensive lineup. And one where anyone who gets the rebound could push the ball. We might be "small" at the 5, but we will be big everywhere else but PG. And then the opposing 5 will have to guard KJ, who I think you can put in the weave and force the opposing big man to run around on D way more than they're used to.

So, if you actually read all of this I think you can tell my opinion. It is to play KJ a lot at the 5. And to run run run. I'd probably play Zach next as the first sub. But I honestly believe that Zuby could pass him up by the end of the year just based on the style of ball I think Bill is adopting with the 4-out where we just defend, rebound and run. So very Roy Williams of him.

Interesting in Zach's limited minutes last year he had the highest Rebound Rate & 2nd highest Block Rate on the team. He was clearly not ready for primetime (body wise & experience) but he was not afraid to mix it up against guys bigger/stronger than him. Another positive quality he showed last year was a surprising steal rate (also led the team). Take these stats with some grain of salt due to how limited the minutes were for him (118 on the year) but they are glimpses to his defensive potential. Wondering if he's just a gamer. He showed some nasty when healthy down low. Very interested to see year 2 development.

I think Self has an idea who's going to play the 5 long-term but when he's got a room with little experience, he's going to push competition and be guarded with the media.

At least from the scrimmage Zuby looked like he was further ahead than we might have expected which is a good thing. Udeh has the size you want there & could turn into a rebound/lob threat as the season progresses when he gets practice reps in by the thousand.

KJ could start early due to his defense but man he's gotta rebound. Dude had the least amount of defensive rebounds on the entire team last year which doesn't even make 1 ounce of sense given his athleticism & motor. Statistically it looks like he was allergic to the ball on defense. Not sure Harris/KJ in your 5 is good for the offense but maybe we'll just shutout teams from scoring.

I do agree the growth of the position is going to be extremely important to this teams ceiling. Self was all over that scrimmage about how they don't score inside etc. This position group is going to have to grow up in a big way

If I'm not mistaken Zach had an unfortunate first time on the floor. He gets called in and immediately drains a three. I was like, wow, this guy is going to be the GOAT! I say unfortunate because he didn't continue making 3's like that but he does have a high side and I think because of what Beddie pointed out we're going to enjoy him by the time he's done here.

KJ is going to be a stud by the time he leaves here I believe. Don't know anything about Cam, Zuby and Udeh so thanks for the info @Kcmatt7.

Kj don't have 5 size even in today's modern game of positionless basketball

@ReggieKansas Does positionless basketball mean having a guard initiate play is now point-less? 🤔

“He’s unbelievably athletic,” Self told The Almanac this offseason. “Style-wise, we can use him similar to how Golden State uses Draymond.”

KJ ^

I would love to see a Golden State style offense in college... Not sure it's possible because there are enough additional possessions in an NBA game that it makes up for some of the turn-overs and missed shots from 3. Those long shots are strategically valuable in the pro game because they serve to stretch the D and the TOs are also a strategic sacrifice when you are moving at break-neck speed to break the defense down.

But the college game doesn't allow for those kinds of mistakes (which are strategically useful in the pro game). It's a game that puts much more value on each possession.

But there was a team that came close to doing it years ago. See LMU, 1990.

I try to see this through Self's eyes... a guess at best.

I think he will prioritize the minutes at the 5 by:

1. Defensive prowess... hold ground on bigger bigs, switch well, decent shot blocking ability.

2. Offensive prowess... in the paint

3. Rebounding

4. Foot speed... fast break basketball

5. Offensive prowess from outside

Our biggest calling card this year should be defense. We have some decent pieces here to develop into one of the better defensive teams in the country. We need a 5 who can hold his ground, block some shots and always be a threat, switch well on screens. If we get that from a 5 we should end up a Top 5 defensive team nationally!

Someone has to be a scoring threat in the low post. Got to have it!

I put rebounding in there with defense. Both are necessary from our 5!

@mayjay no sir its just if we look at the traditional 4 and 5 they are usually 6'9 to 7'0. With more guards and wings dominating the ball you don't see the tradition 4 and 5. Having said that my point is kj is 6'7 so being a 5 even in a small lineup is a stretch.

@ReggieKansas I think you missed my pun....

I’ll double up on a thought I had in another thread…

We have 25 fouls to give. Let’s use em. Be aggressive. Put some shoulders into their bigs. Bump, battle and bruise.

In foul trouble? Next guy up. Tired? Next guy up.

Will Self do that? Maybe early on, but certainly not by mid conference year.

IMO: Zach and KJ will play a lot.

I can’t really offer an opinion on the new guys yet. I sure hope one of em can contribute — rebound and have a presence inside.

The days of the traditional 12345 spots on the floor are gone. Otherwise I think we’d have Zach playing the 4 spot, like Raef LaFrentz back in the day.

@ReggieKansas said in The 5 spot:

@mayjay no sir its just if we look at the traditional 4 and 5 they are usually 6'9 to 7'0. With more guards and wings dominating the ball you don't see the tradition 4 and 5. Having said that my point is kj is 6'7 so being a 5 even in a small lineup is a stretch.

If KJ had any rebounding ability, he'd work as a smallball 5. But his lack of rebounding ability limits how long he can play the 5 spot.

Not center related but Mccullar was the best player for us today in the Illinois Scrimmage from Jeff Goodman

Who has the best ability to score near the basket in hi lo game.

This is classic Self system.

When shots are not falling throw it inside and let your Big go to work.

KU needs Clemence to win that job and play the majority of the minutes. He's got the best overall skill set and has the highest ceiling of any of the 5's.

Texas Hawk,

Does he possess post moves and can he score with the back to the basket.

@BeddieKU23 I guess I didn't think Zach's stats from last year passed the eye test for me. He was certainly a spark when he was in, but it felt more fluky than good.

KJ's advanced rebounding stats are better than the "totals" show, but they could definitely be better... Wouldn't argue that. Part of my thought with KJ getting minutes is that if he is going to close down the game with KJ (which is what I expect, personally) then there has to be some cohesion. So KJ will need to get some minutes. But that's just me trying to predict Bill a bit.

I'm hoping this is all just Bill pulling levers with Zach and then he comes out and plays like he's Matthew Hurt or something.

@AsadZ This is a good question. And it is a bit concerning that we don't have an answer.

I don't think KJ or Zach are much in the post (though Zach is tall enough to score). I'm not sure what Zuby is capable of quite yet. Udeh does not look like he will be good 1v1, but at 7'0 with a long wingspan it is entirely possible he's tall enough you still can't stop him even if the post moves are ugly. Doke was a pretty good example of "you can't teach size." Even Sivio showed that sometimes just being a big athletic dude and getting good post position will get you points.

Zach probably has the edge right this second if I had to answer.

At the same time, not having anyone who can really do this makes me think some sort of 5-out with KJ could end up being the most effective/consistent offense we have this year. And I also think you'll see Jalen get a lot more touches posting his man up. You saw Bill post Och and CB at times last season. I would expect the same with McCullar, Dick and Wilson.

Posted some stuff about the 5 spot in the scrimmage thread.

“If you want a ball-screen, run-to-the-rim, defensive team, you’d probably go with Ernest or Zuby,” Self said Wednesday. “If you want a skilled, pick-and-pop team that maybe doesn’t have the same presence defensively, you probably go with Cam or Zach. But we need one of those guys to emerge. And right now they’re all just right there the same.”

“At the end of the day, you’ve still got to be able to throw the ball (inside),” Self said. “Our last two baskets of the season last year were throw the ball to a guy (David McCormack) and have him make a four-footer. And right now we don’t consistently do that at all.”

There are other ways for KU to get the low-post scoring Self wants, and he said Wednesday that he thinks wings Jalen Wilson, Kevin McCullar Jr., Gradey Dick and MJ Rice all could be used in that type of role from time to time. "Absolutely,” Self said. “Now, the (bigs) need to be good enough passers that they can (throw it inside), but we’re messing with all that stuff right now.”

@Kcmatt7 said in The 5 spot:

“

“At the end of the day, you’ve still got to be able to throw the ball (inside),” Self said. “Our last two baskets of the season last year were throw the ball to a guy (David McCormack) and have him make a four-footer. And right now we don’t consistently do that at all.”

I am in unbearable pain.

I mean, yeah, it's true but gosh I hope that isn't the takeaway from the season.

@BShark because we have to depend on it or because nobody can do it? I assume it's the first.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in The 5 spot:

@BShark because we have to depend it that or because nobody can do it? I assume it's the first.

Both but mostly the first. I do think Bill will adapt though.

@Kcmatt7

He certainly had some moments, good and bad. Looked like a freshman & then dealt with some injury issues that stunted further growth. I'm not sure we saw him in the best light last year. I'm disappointed we are not hearing that he's been that good so far leading up. In fact it sounds like the all the bigs have struggled. We have had a lot of steady years in the post when we think back to even the Doke days. Doke/Dave/Mitch played a lot of minutes here the last 5-6 years and now that mantle is finally being passed on. Sounds like a lot of growing pains going on right now and something that will likely spill over well into the season.

KJ will play & I have long thought he'd still get minutes at the 5 after solid play there in spurts last year as a freshman. When you earn that kind of trust from coach you tend to keep it. I just think it's a valid concern about his rebounding. He had 10 total defensive rebounds last year in his minutes. Guards grab more boards than that without even trying. It's weird because he was pretty darn good at stealing a possession here and there on offense, so you know he has the ability to get the ball.

Why not Jalen at the 5?

@Jethro

I mean we all know what he can/can't do defensively. He's a great college rebounder and not much else defensively.

@Jethro said in The 5 spot:

Why not Jalen at the 5?

Even at 6'8", I remember thinking Mitch Lightfoot was undersized at the 5 when the opponent got the ball to their 5. At a "listed" 6'7", 225 lbs., other teams will post him up and let their big men go to work and score. KJ will be OK on offense; way different that DMac, but OK. The mismatches will ocurr on the defensive end of the court. But, I loved KJ's defense on the perimeter, like NC's Manek. so when the opponent's 4 or 5 regularly plays outside, KJ would be my choice.

Unless Zach/Udeh solidify the 5 position we're going to be a bit small there all year. Zuby, athletic but 6'8, KJ is shorter than that but again he's an athletic freak. Cam is tall but not good.

I do think we will go small some with Wilson at the 5. But it isn’t a 30 mpg solution

@Kcmatt7

And will be very matchup dependent as well if it happens. I see no reason to play our best player at the 5 and get him beat up. Guys are just going to have to step up and rise to the occasion.

@Kcmatt7 said in The 5 spot:

I do think we will go small some with Wilson at the 5. But it isn’t a 30 mpg solution

I'm thinking we could go that way until Bill can get the 5 spot sorted out. I just wish each of our 5s had an extra year of experience.

@Jethro pretty sure you see them do this only when the offense is struggling to get going. But otherwise a last resort.

I definitely get what you’re saying though.

There is definitely some vindication from people who said we should go after a transfer at the 5. It would be nice to have Kofi in the building lol

Very fun read in here.

I like to read diversity in opinions on the 5 and we have many ideas going.

I don't think we become a real powerhouse team without the 5 being resolved. Self has always relied on the post and even last year, as he designed around his previous necessary hi-lo the season came down to low post scoring down the stretch.

I'm never going to say "never" about Self because he has proven me wrong before. He is a guy who changes with the game and the players he has. But as of today, I think his focus right now is to weed through the post guys and maybe nails it down to 2 soon to carry the weight. Ability to develop low post scoring will be key and I can't help but think strength will be very very important. Look at all those guys and judge them by strength and you have maybe the best indicator (guess) as to how this is going to work itself out.

I have to admit I'm intrigued with Clemence... just not quite as committed as @Texas-Hawk-10 yet. Clemence clearly has a huge skill set, but will it be the skills needed in the low post? Kind of reminds me of EJ... is it necessary to sacrifice his development for his future in order to fit into KU's needs today? If I'm Clemence... I'm working on my handles, outside shot, crossover, creating scoring space all over the floor and less low post finishes.

Yeah, perhaps a transfer would have been ideal.

Here's my rebuttal against that though. We recruited Zach, KJ, Zuby, Udeh in two recruiting classes to play the position. You develop and play these guys that you have invested in. Your security blanket of having an experienced post player is gone after reaping the benefits of guys sticking around. We forget Dave/Mitch struggled mightily as younger players. I get the portal let's you go out and get a ready-made guy but these KU coaches get paid a great deal to also develop HS talent & long-term that's the best way to get out of this situation.

Think we are seeing a combination of Self expecting a certain level of play in the post & new guys struggling to match that standard right now. I think we need to prepare as if this will be a constant battle all year long. It's probably going to take most of this year before we see someone start to emerge. These things take time & this position group is probably a year away from being a strength again.

@drgnslayr

Clemence's game is more poor man's Brady Manek.

I feel like Self is going to have to be way more creative in how he gets points down low. A lot of his traditional stuff he likes to run doesn't have a traditional guy to make the plays yet. If the guard play is strong, then that will help them.

I do agree that he's going to have to settle in on 1-2 options and live with it. I can't see a platoon being effective.

A lot of my analysis has been about finding the best offensive option in the post but defensively I think that's the bigger issue Self isn't talking about. It sounds as if the void Dave/Mitch left is significant right now

It's too bad we couldn't get Doke another year of eligibility.

This is an interesting conversation. Kind of an old school conversation in a way though, right?

The model in basketball lately has been mobile bigs who can handle and shoot, not necessarily post up and dominate inside like Shaq back in the day.

Looking at the last half decade or so of national champions, Kansas last year was really the only team with a traditional big with size with Big Dave. you have to go way back to 2015 Duke to find a traditional big over 6-9. Villanova? Virginia?

So, I dunno if this is even a conversation.

@Jethro

Dave had another year available to him which would have been ideal.

@rockchalkjayhawk

UNC had a traditional big (Bacot) and made it to the Finals. Flo Thamba was a traditional big on the Baylor team that won it 2 years ago. Doke in 19-20 was on the best team in America. Virginia's big Diakite on their title squad was more of the mobile type.

At least recently, its proven to be effective to have that traditional big in the lane.

@BeddieKU23 said in The 5 spot:

@Jethro

Dave had another year available to him which would have been ideal.

Any way we could get him on the phone?

The irony is that the staff sort of shoo'd Dave away. At least that is what it sounded like.

Basically said thanks, but we're ready to move on. Reaping a bit of what we sowed.

I think for the new brand of ball, Zach fits pretty well. The key is for him to hit from 3. As soon as that happens, the defense gets spread out and opportunities open up for everyone.

And on D, you switch, switch, switch.

@Kcmatt7

Perhaps.... but it sure wasn't done because Self wanted him gone and replaced. Self pushed him to leave because this was his time to go, even if he preferred to stick around.

@bskeet

I love the idea... just uncertain of the effectiveness. I think back to Kieff popping the julie from top of the key... it was sweet when it worked. But how effective is it? Your big out there having zero chance of a rebound and taking a shot that is probably best left for a guard. We should always be able to scheme a good trey for a guard.

I hope I'm proven wrong here... would be great if Zach could go 40% from outer space!

@drgnslayr said in The 5 spot:

@Kcmatt7

Perhaps.... but it sure wasn't done because Self wanted him gone and replaced. Self pushed him to leave because this was his time to go, even if he preferred to stick around.

@bskeet

I love the idea... just uncertain of the effectiveness. I think back to Kieff popping the julie from top of the key... it was sweet when it worked. But how effective is it? Your big out there having zero chance of a rebound and taking a shot that is probably best left for a guard. We should always be able to scheme a good trey for a guard.

I hope I'm proven wrong here... would be great if Zach could go 40% from outer space!

Here's what having a 5 who can knock down 3's does, it opens up the paint for guys like Wilson, McCullar, Rice, and Harris to drive and do damage in the middle of the floor because teams would have to guard Clemence on the perimeter.

This is also why KU's best chance this year is if Clemence develops. This team doesn't project to be an elite shooting team, but being able to space the floor and get penetration with the wings and guards is still getting the low post points that Self wants, just not in a traditional way.

Based on last year, Clemence also has the mentality to be an above average low post defender and rebounder because he is tough and he's aggressive. He may not have the ceiling that Udeh has on defense, but Clemence does have the highest overall ceiling of any of the bigs on the roster.

@BeddieKU23 said in The 5 spot:

@rockchalkjayhawk

UNC had a traditional big (Bacot) and made it to the Finals. Flo Thamba was a traditional big on the Baylor team that won it 2 years ago. Doke in 19-20 was on the best team in America. Virginia's big Diakite on their title squad was more of the mobile type.

At least recently, its proven to be effective to have that traditional big in the lane.

Well, sure kinda sorta maybe on Flo? Dude averaged a career best 6 pts a game his last year. So not really counting him as a go to guy to get a basket down low.

So we got Bascot and KU’s offerings. The cupboard isn’t exactly bursting at the seams is my point.

I’m by no means arguing against the idea of a big who can get a bucket, just saying they don’t exist as much in today’ game any more.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in The 5 spot:

Here’s what having a 5 who can knock down 3’s does, it opens up the paint for guys like Wilson, McCullar, Rice, and Harris to drive and do damage in the middle of the floor because teams would have to guard Clemence on the perimeter.

Exactly. It's a big if, but there's a lot of speed with that crew, so if they can rev the engine and stretch the defense.. good things should ensue.

If you think about it, that's kind of what they did last year in the tourney. The first shot against Nova and UNC was Ochi hitting a 3. That couldn't be a coincidence. It would be interesting to go back and look at KUs first set and shot in each game to see how often they tried to establish the outside threat and tug at that D from the get-go.

And last years team was fast. Fast break points were a priority. They passed quickly and this occasionally resulted in some sloppy looking passes, especially early in the season. But when it got dialed in, it was a thing of beauty.

@rockchalkjayhawk

Yeah Flo was the starter but not a very impactful one to their success that year. Crazy that he's still around.

I agree the traditional Big's importance has diminished with how the game has evolved at that position. For KU's scheme it has been critical that they have a guy that can go get a bucket.

Clemence was an interesting take from a fit perspective. Bigs that can stretch the floor have been rare in the Self era. DLaw was the last one and he was only around 1 year.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Great post... hope it works out that way!

I get revved with this idea... Clem offers so many assets, including passing, and his footwork outside of the low post is like nothing we have ever had from a big. Put this guy on the perimeter and we have a lot less fouls called on us because Clem is skilled at setting a screen.

Imagine his potential for pick and pop, pick and roll?

He's also a solid passer who can easily pass over defenses into the post for darting guys.

To really take advantage of Clem we will need to commit early to having him be our guy. There is pluses and negatives... the plus is we can have other traditional bigs back him up who run traditional offense and then we have two very different offensive approaches we can run at teams and they have to practice against this before facing us. The neg is we have to work hard to get proficient at both.

We want Zach to separate from the pack I feel, but it's an uphill battle because he's not what you would call a Bill Self big.

@drgnslayr said in The 5 spot:

@Texas-Hawk-10

Great post... hope it works out that way!

I get revved with this idea... Clem offers so many assets, including passing, and his footwork outside of the low post is like nothing we have ever had from a big. Put this guy on the perimeter and we have a lot less fouls called on us because Clem is skilled at setting a screen.

Imagine his potential for pick and pop, pick and roll?

He's also a solid passer who can easily pass over defenses into the post for darting guys.

To really take advantage of Clem we will need to commit early to having him be our guy. There is pluses and negatives... the plus is we can have other traditional bigs back him up who run traditional offense and then we have two very different offensive approaches we can run at teams and they have to practice against this before facing us. The neg is we have to work hard to get proficient at both.

What do you mean by "his footwork outside of the low post is like nothing we have ever had from a big?"

@BShark

He recruited Zach knowing this about him already. Going to take time but I think he gets there

@Kcmatt7 said in The 5 spot:

What do you mean by “his footwork outside of the low post is like nothing we have ever had from a big?”

Clem is nimble with his feet. For example, when he sets a pick he can position his feet the right way to prevent a lot of offensive fouls. He can also know how to set a better screen by being in the exact spot that will best slow down the defender's path.

Sounds like a little thing, but it ends up counting big!

Think back on all the offensive fouls that were called on guys like Big Dave. He either arrives late or his position is ripe for drawing the call.

@drgnslayr I wouldn't say he's doing things we've never seen before on the perimeter. Zach is pretty cinderblock footed in my opinion. Reminds me a lot of Carlton Bragg the way he moves to be honest...

The only thing Zach has shown to be elite at so far is shooting. He could possibly be the best shooting big man we've ever seen under Self. Stroke is absolutely pure. I assume he probably has good BBIQ as well.

But he is physically weak in the post. He also appears to be pretty vertically challenged based on everything I've seen. Even his HS tape shows this. He's not going to set better screens than probably any of the other bigs (all of whom are bigger in stature). He isn't going to be a better rim protector than anyone but maybe Cam.

Now, if Zach can always be in the right spot and do the little things, he probably is the best option. Having a potential lineup where all 5 guys can hit it from deep is tough af to defend. Might force teams to play smaller, in which case Zach at 6'10 can go post guys up for easier buckets. The ideal situation is Zach taking a big step forward and owning the position.

I'm just not sure that Self is willing to concede some easy buckets when he has a 7'2 wingspan and two other freak athletes on the bench he can put in that spot.

@Kcmatt7

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I compare how he moves his feet to how Dave moved his feet and I see a huge difference.

I agree he needs more strength and think that is what works against him stealing all the 5 minutes. Probably not a great leaper. If he moves his feet well that can make up for a lot. Positioning and being a quick leaper can do that.

To be honest... we all need to see him play more to assess him and he might be better this year if he spent his summer wisely building his strength.

I met him a few months ago... he's got some size. His height is real and isn't as thin as I previously thought.

@drgnslayr I can definitely agree we need to see more. I can imagine Bill knows what he is going to do already, but he is pushing some buttons here at the end of the preseason to see what else he can milk out of these guys. The master of pushing buttons. Easy to forget that he benched Dave midseason and started KJ for a hot second to prove his point.

I certainly hope Zach comes out and proves me wrong. Because a starting lineup with a good Zach, Dick and Wilson is a great shooting lineup that would keep opposing coaches up at night.

@Kcmatt7

I totally agree.... would be great to see Zach earn the spot!

The one thing the dump downs to the post did was draw the defense inside, which led to open perimeter shots. And Bill misses that. I think I will, too. But I keep thinking what MCCullars will do down low w/o a center to harrass him, and MJ ... MJ is the premiere on the block guy we have. And Jalen will run past any ( hyperventilation moment- I should say almost any ) 4 in the country to the rim. Hell, set Clemence up at half court, and let our other players slice and dice.

@Jethro You saw Bill post up both Och and CB last year.

I would expect to see him expand that part of the playbook. Wilson, KJ, Dick, MJ and McCullar all of the size to abuse smaller guards. Just watch Bill do something disgusting like invert the high-low offense and have bigs feeding lob passes over the top to guards for 20 points a game. Would be too funny to watch honestly. And it'd probably work amazingly well.

@drgnslayr said in The 5 spot:

@Kcmatt7

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I compare how he moves his feet to how Dave moved his feet and I see a huge difference.

I agree he needs more strength and think that is what works against him stealing all the 5 minutes. Probably not a great leaper. If he moves his feet well that can make up for a lot. Positioning and being a quick leaper can do that.

To be honest... we all need to see him play more to assess him and he might be better this year if he spent his summer wisely building his strength.

I met him a few months ago... he's got some size. His height is real and isn't as thin as I previously thought.

Plus,
He's the only KU player who has ever tweeted me back...ever. That counts for something right there.

@Kcmatt7

McCullar should be a beast in the low post!

@drgnslayr I can already picture the old man game down there ha.

My first thought was honestly Jalen Brunson absolutely dominating dudes down there with just an old school post up game. I could see McCullar doing this for sure.

How about our Big 12 very own Niang? 6'8" and body. I loved watching that guy play! He schooled everyone... both outside and inside!

Cam hurt, will be out a few weeks.

Sounds like a little thing, but it ends up counting bi
Think back on all the offensive fouls that were called on guys like Big Dave. He either arrives late or his position is ripe for drawing the call.

Yay, a grammar police moment.

I believe you mean “rife for drawing the call.” :nerd_face: also, your post is right on.

@BShark

Sounds odd. Might be a couple of weeks or might be surgery.

"the Jayhawks welcomed a group of ladies back into the Fieldhouse in person for a behind-the-scenes look at everything that goes into the program. That included a tour of the facilities, including the KU locker room"

I read this and thought the worst. Then it mentioned players' moms.

Hearings: would expect KJ to start at this spot against Pitt St. Will update if something changes.

Sounds about right.

Grady, too?

After last night I thought the position was Udeh's to lose in the long run. I think KJ will play a ton there early. But Udeh and Zuby will slowly chip away at his minutes as the season goes on.

Here are some notes I took rewatching the game this morning:

• Udeh - got the start. He was out of position on ball screens twice his first run. Was a little lost on offense (but so was everyone). Clearly the other starters were not comfortable playing with him yet. 2nd run - GREAT defensive effort on the first possession. Basically cause the TO (and almost a shot clock violation). He isn't posting up at all on O. Not sure if that is by design. I think he must just feel more comfortable on pick and roll lobs. I do think he is a shit rebounder for his size so far. Back in with the starters for his 3rd run - REALLY good help on ball screen action forces a DEEP 3 by Pitt. Then catches the lob the next possession. Next possession another really good help on a ball screen. Then misses the lob. Next possession Udeh gets away with a block, but no call. Ends up a layup from the chaos. Next defensive possession Udeh causes the turnover with a tipped pass that leads to THE OFF THE BACKBOARD LOB. Then KJ throws an idiotic lob and Udeh gets a little banged up.

• KJ got the start at the 4. Which was interesting. His confidence to launch a 3 early tells me we may see a few more of those... Not sure if that is good or bad. Nothing special though his first time on the floor. First run with KJ at the 5 - The switch everything defense caused some confusion between Joe/Jalen/KJ and we give up a wide-open 3. The next possession it works and forces a shot clock violation... Then a turnover the next... The next half court possession ANOTHER turnover. AND THEN ANOTHER TURNOVER WHERE ADAMS GETS AN AND-1. Now a tie-up (KJ had nothing to do with this). Halftime over and KJ get the start at the 5 again. Dumb turnover, stripped by a guard at the high post. But then sets the screen to get Dick open for 3. Forces a bad shot at the rim which gets us a bucket at the other end. Makes a good hustle shot contention in the corner the next play. Next offensive possession he makes a brilliant under the basket skip pass to Wilson in the corner for 3.

• Zach first run - didn't set any really good screens. Did nothing on O. And gave up two layups I don't think any of the other big men give up... Offers literally no rim protection. 2nd time out: Good little hook in the paint. 8:13 mark Zach comes over to help on a backside block and might as well not even try. Guy goes over him no problem. Zach in for his 3rd run now. With an awful lineup (wtf Bill). Zach for the 2nd time has the ball on the block and doesn't realize he is sort of open. Makes a bad pass. Zach a few possessions later gives up on a rotation and guy drills a 3. Zach gets a steal here and it leads to him getting a nice bucket off of a nice pump fake. Very next possession he falls over on D (trips himself) and we give up a 3. Next D possession Zach overhelps on D and can't close quick enough on his own man we give up a 3. Zach back in with 3 minutes left. Two big look with Zuby. Zach drills a corner 3 (man that stroke is pure).

• Zuby - He looks better on this first run than I remembered last night. But didn't do anything special. He does take up a lot of room and set some screens. Him and Yes had a bad defensive ball screen action. Gave up the 3 that let Pitt go up 20-6. I though Joe should have gone over the screen, so not sure it was Zuby's fault. Zuby's 2nd run - set the screen to get Dick loose for his first 3. He did get abused on a possession. Needs to be tougher for a guy who is 250 lbs... Then got scored over pretty easily. Then he leaves his feet to try and block a 3 and lets his man draw a foul at the basket. Zuby back in for his final run. Posts up his man and makes a very award attempt at a basket, but misses. Gets his own rebound though and scores. Zuby gets a nice poke on a ball that leads to a fast break foul. Next defensive possession he gets a nice help side block. Tip in by Zuby off a missed shot. Zuby with another lob catch for a bucket.

So here is a power ranking of bigs after last night:

1. KJ - I love this team playing small and fast. Because we aren't small. This team is HUGE outside of Harris at PG. KJ lets us play some intense D. It makes sense to see 4 guards and KJ for a good 10-15 mpg where we just pump up the pace of play as fast as we can.

2. Udeh - I thought he did the best job of the other bigs defending ball screens after his 1st run. Got his hands on the ball some. Clearly the guys feel like they can just throw the ball at he rim and he'll go get it. I was disappointed by his rebounding. And I was surprised we didn't post him up at all. But I like how active he was and I like his ability to defend a lot.

3. Zuby - By far the best of the bigs at setting screens and rebounding. He did both of those really well last night (in comparison to the others). He looked raw, but that's okay. I thought he defended okay and did provide some good rim protection. Overall, I liked what I saw and he easily could have been 2 over Udeh.

4. Zach - I do think he is the savviest of the bigs. He's in the right spot quite a bit. And that shot is something else. But otherwise he is a piss poor rim defender, average rebounder and slow footed in comparison to the others. He is the anti-Bill Self big. A guy who could be force fed for 15ppg at another program. But the truth is I'm just not convinced that he is a P5 big man... And I'm not sure he ever plays more than 15 mpg here ever with his athletic/defensive limitations.

Overall, I wasn't disappointed by the bigs last night. I thought it was weird how we didn't post them up very much (maybe that is telling). I continue to believe that while it is the position with the most minutes up for grabs, it isn't going to kill us. I will say last night did make me appreciate Dave a bit... Hopefully Zuby and Udeh can progress quite a bit over the next 3 months though. I think they will. And what right now may look like a weak spot could turn into a strength. A 1-2 punch of Udeh and Zuby with the ability to go full Golden State Warriors if we need to in KJ.

@Kcmatt7

Perhaps Self was saving parts of the offense from getting scouted. One reason I can think of them avoiding the post ups. Or the offense is so vanilla right now because of the lack of experience they are running it certain way until there's more practice and game reps. It is weird but there has to be good reason for it

@Kcmatt7 Oddly Zach was the ONLY big who posted up and scored last night. And there was evidence last season he could post up and score as well. So, he seems like the perfect modern big to me. Assuming he proves he can shoot of course, which he hasn’t yet in a game. He even proved he’s mobile. He took it to the rack from the foul line and scored!

I say Zach will prove very valuable over time.

As for us morphing into the Golden State Warriors…can’t do that without 4.5 shooters on the floor. We ain’t got the ponies for that. Best we can hope is that Self makes these guys dribble drive like Dotson did. I think the odds of us turning into a good driving team are higher than us turning into a good shooting team, outside of Gradey of course.

Just keep those bigs rotating …

@Kcmatt7

It was such a "newbie" game. Wow! All those first half nerves were hilarious. I'm almost positive a junior high school team would have taken an early lead on us.

The competition at the 5 will continue. None really grabbed me enough to give a thumbs up. I did notice how they were all trying to keep up with the speed of the offense.

What sticks out in this game is Self's desire to run!

All of our 5 candidates are going to have to realize they can't be "ball and chains" out there... slowing down our team pace. From what I saw, KJ holds the lead with speed!

VIEWS OF THE GAME:

1. Gradey stuck out to me! Wow! That kid has an amazing shot! Great verticality, great form, super quick release... I can't think of anyone we've ever had that had a stroke that clean as a freshman! He's going to take some lumps this year, but he is going to get plenty of PT and will be making some amazing plays!

2. McCullar is the real deal! 5 steals... and almost another 5 steals. When he is out there it seems like we have 6 defenders! He was the guy that flipped our lousy slow start into a big win! He started the charge on defense then others sped up and played better defense, too! If I was to give out a game ball for this game it would go to McCullar!

3. JWil showing more scoring aggression. Many times last year he had the rock and was driving and pulled out... now he tries to finish more. It's a good sign and I expect him to average some big numbers this year!

4. Bobby has to stay healthy! His scrap should earn him plenty of minutes! His game is still untapped and he can be huge for us this year if he stays healthy and builds off his PT.

5. Dajuan played it right! Only 6 points but 10 assists! How many games will we lose this year if he puts up 10 assists?

6. Rebounds are in question! No one got more than 4 rebounds. I get it... this year will be a "team rebound" theme. I'm okay with that but hey, we only had one more rebound than Pitt State! It's hard to send everyone to the boards on defense if we plan to be a fast break team! ANSWER: We need a big that will dominate the boards!

@drgnslayr said in The 5 spot:

@Kcmatt7

It was such a "newbie" game. Wow! All those first half nerves were hilarious. I'm almost positive a junior high school team would have taken an early lead on us.

The competition at the 5 will continue. None really grabbed me enough to give a thumbs up. I did notice how they were all trying to keep up with the speed of the offense.

What sticks out in this game is Self's desire to run!

All of our 5 candidates are going to have to realize they can't be "ball and chains" out there... slowing down our team pace. From what I saw, KJ holds the lead with speed!

VIEWS OF THE GAME:

1. Gradey stuck out to me! Wow! That kid has an amazing shot! Great verticality, great form, super quick release... I can't think of anyone we've ever had that had a stroke that clean as a freshman! He's going to take some lumps this year, but he is going to get plenty of PT and will be making some amazing plays!

2. McCullar is the real deal! 5 steals... and almost another 5 steals. When he is out there it seems like we have 6 defenders! He was the guy that flipped our lousy slow start into a big win! He started the charge on defense then others sped up and played better defense, too! If I was to give out a game ball for this game it would go to McCullar!

3. JWil showing more scoring aggression. Many times last year he had the rock and was driving and pulled out... now he tries to finish more. It's a good sign and I expect him to average some big numbers this year!

4. Bobby has to stay healthy! His scrap should earn him plenty of minutes! His game is still untapped and he can be huge for us this year if he stays healthy and builds off his PT.

5. Dajuan played it right! Only 6 points but 10 assists! How many games will we lose this year if he puts up 10 assists?

6. Rebounds are in question! No one got more than 4 rebounds. I get it... this year will be a "team rebound" theme. I'm okay with that but hey, we only had one more rebound than Pitt State! It's hard to send everyone to the boards on defense if we plan to be a fast break team! ANSWER: We need a big that will dominate the boards!

Your spot on about Grady , and that's what we as fans have to keep in mind.- Like you say Grady gonna take some lumps -so later this year he hits a wall - gotta remember he is a Freshman , with a showing like he put out last night isn't going to help him any as far as fans expectations go lol - -he is human - -just got to be there to support him not get down on him - - and it will happen. Other teams start keying on him if he keeps showing like he did. - Spot on guy

I didn't get to watch last night's game, but I do have some thoughts on the bigs rotation.

This is a bit of a mess (if you can call anything on a national championship contender a mess) because KU does not have a single big man that can truly do all of the different things you want out of a big man. They don't have a lob catcher/rebounder/post up threat/ stretch shooter/ rim protector/ PnR defender in a single package.

KJ can catch lobs and defend the PnR, but his rim protection will be at issue with bigger players, and his rebounding will be roughly average. He can't post up against bigger guys and his shooting remains to be seen, though I am probably higher on his shot potential than most. So out of those six things, KJ can probably do 2 well, 2 okay, and 2 poorly. Zach can shoot, but can't protect the rim, guard the PnR or catch lobs. So he can do three things (post, stretch and rebound), but really can't do the other three (protect the rim, PnR, lobs).

You can combine Zach and KJ in the lineup and that gives you 5 of the 6, but you still lack rim protection. Zuby or Udeh could protect the rim, and both look to be okay on PnR (though they are freshmen, so they will struggle against more advanced PnR players), but neither is as good a shooter as either KJ or Zach. I don't think either is a real post threat at this moment, so basically you just get lobs with them. And while Zuby is a good rebounder, I worry about Udeh's hands in the rebounding game. And Cam, while a good shooter and adept offensive player, is likely not a P5 level defender. He can get spot minutes for his offense, but against teams with good bigs, he will be a liability.

And with the talent KU has on the perimeter, I don't know how much you can legitimately play 2 bigs without compromising having your best 5 on the floor. Wilson, Dick, Harris and McCullar are going to play big minutes. Rice is super talented, but may not have a spot right now. Either Yesufu or Pettiford is going to get squeezed on minutes as the season continues, especially if the big rotation remains this crowded.

KU has a lot of questions to answer over the next three weeks because the rotation is crowded and there are things that different guys do really well, but also things that they don't do as well.

@justanotherfan I'd settle for average rebounding from KJ I fear it will be much worse. Early on at least he is going to get more minutes than most fans would probably like.

I suspect Dajuan/Kevin/Jalen are all 30+ minute guys. Maybe Gradey gets there too but I think 25+ at a minimum. I think Bobby is the clear back-up PG and I see him getting steady minutes as long as he is healthy. When Joe was in there he was playing off the ball exclusively from what I remember. I hope MJ can prove good enough to grab those minutes because Joe showed me what he did last year which is that he isn't very good. I do feel confident that those 4 are the top 4 though, and that we see 2/3 of the other three round out of "small" rotation. As for the two bigs that separate, I truly have no idea at this point.

@BShark wasn't it Zach, 2x, that lacked total court awareness? Easy buckets! I think that's what coach was so po'd about.

I'm in favor of really looking to the future with Udeh. Get him time. They all were clogging the middle, hoping the screening gets better! Getting the ball side to side a few times like self and Juan said after game instead of Wilson shooting so quick at the beginning, which he said too. Pretty green. It'll be fun to watch them mature!

@Crimsonorblue22 said in The 5 spot:

I'm in favor of really looking to the future with Udeh. Get him time. They all were clogging the middle, hoping the screening gets better! Getting the ball side to side a few times like self and Juan said after game instead of Wilson shooting so quick at the beginning, which he said too. Pretty green. It'll be fun to watch them mature!

Not much else to do with that starting 5 out there but have Wilson try to chuck. Certainly can't get anything out of a structured offense when you are playing Dajuan (non-scorer period don't care what Bill lied about), KJ (non-existant on offense period far less value than Harris) and Udeh (a lob/rebound only guy at this point who also isn't good setting screens yet). Would imagine (hope) we never see that exact 5 again. Gradey should start.

@BShark didn't gradey start 2nd half? Wilson shot us out at the beginning, to quick. Guess we have to disagree. Glad we started pressing. Won't be that easy from now on. Bet we work on screens but not much time before mon. Let's hope roberts can get them to start better.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in The 5 spot:

@BShark didn't gradey start 2nd half? Wilson shot us out at the beginning, to quick. Guess we have to disagree. Glad we started pressing. Won't be that easy from now on. Bet we work on screens but not much time before mon. Let's hope roberts can get them to start better.

I'm talking about the start of the game when we played like complete crap.

We have two choices in the post:

1. Go small

2. Go big

Zach is big... just thin. I consider him "going small." So we have KJ and Zach on the "going small" side. Also... we have potential to stick someone like McCullar in the low post. Maybe sometimes even someone like JWil.

Zuby and Udeh have size and are players who will eventually develop into traditional bigs... back to the basket scoring, rebounding, and low post defense.

Question is... how many teams will we play that have a real low post threat? I'll tell you... not many! The biggest issue (and need) we have with a big is offering rebounding. We need rebounds to get out and run! If we could have a big capable of pulling double-figure rebounds... this contest would probably be over. Low post scoring is pretty basic. Not too hard to have your back at the basket and shoot a mini hook. Glad more people are now appreciating what Big Dave had to offer. He had great low post scoring %.

Right now.... I like the idea that we play games with some minutes small, some big. We adjust as the game goes along with what works best.

Starters.... I don't always put faith in the +/- stat... but checkout this game. It is glaring... Harris, Wilson, McCullar, Adams, Dick... and then Bobby... Very telling.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in The 5 spot:

@BShark didn't gradey start 2nd half? Wilson shot us out at the beginning, to quick. Guess we have to disagree. Glad we started pressing. Won't be that easy from now on. Bet we work on screens but not much time before mon. Let's hope roberts can get them to start better.

I agree early in the game Jalen was pressing. - -I think maybe his thought process was early when we fell behind like 21-6 - -he has in his head that this was one of those times this year where he thought he needed to step up and provide leadership role - - kinda try and put the team on his back, IF that was his thinking I can understand , yet I think he came down and took like possibly 5 straight shots- -and forced shots at that.

He was actually hurting us more then helping at that stage of the game. - -I think Jalen wants to be the leader for the team this Season - which is not a bad thing but just has to realize when to temper things a bit

@jayballer67 It's in large part because we only had two guys in that starting line-up even interested in/capable of scoring much. It was not a good/sustainable line-up at all. Doubt we see it again.

I think Udeh wins the 5 mystery. I hope he gets 20+ min from here on out.

@BShark said in The 5 spot:

@jayballer67 It's in large part because we only had two guys in that starting line-up even interested in/capable of scoring much. It was not a good/sustainable line-up at all. Doubt we see it again.

very true & hopefully not

@drgnslayr saw lots of excitement in your post and i concur. We have a wealth of talent! Sky is the limit!

@BShark The starting lineup was Bill’s defensive dream and we got down 15 to a D2 school

The lineup only works if Juan looks to score. I won’t say Bill lied but all we’ve heard is talk about Juan taking a huge step offensively to lead the team. He doesn’t drive (reason he shoots such few free throws) and if he can’t knock down a three he’s offensively just a hockey assist guy.

Juan can’t score, kj can’t score, udeh can’t score so it leaves Wilson and McCullar to chuck and they were off to start. Pair that with atrocious defense and you get down quick.

Juan not even looking to score and Joe being atrocious were the two biggest takeaways from that game to me.

Grady, Wilson and McCullars gotta score 15-20 a piece to carry us offensively.

@drgnslayr to name a few post threats

Duke - 7-1’ Lively
Tenn - 7-1 (don’t know his name)
Indiana - 6-9 trace Jackson
Kentucky - Oscar
Baylor - has 3-4 6-8 to 7’ athletic bigs

Pretty much any team you’d have to beat to win a natty

@kuballin10 Yeah I agree with this completely that line-up simply can not score. Gradey needs to start going forward. You can't have 3 non-offensive players in the game at once and 2 is pushing it.

I am hoping MJ proves good enough to take those minutes from Joe who was playing back-up off ball roles. Bobby is clearly the back-up guard and he looked really nice. He just needs to look to score more and he can be a great player. I don't think it's outside his dna like Dajuan I think it boils down to what the staff asks him to do.

I was surprised by how small Udeh is. Zuby is the only big that physically looks the part. Clemence can stretch the floor. KJ is a tweener with unreal energy. I’m curious to see how this plays out.

@dylans Udeh looked like a very large man live.

anyone know if we’ve pressed that much in a preseason game before? Was it just a result of being way down or an actual glimpse at a possible strategy this year? Normally the bill self full court defense is just straight man to man pick up your guy on the inbounds but I saw Juan and jalen working traps and trying to really disrupt, leaving a ball hawk like McCullar to get in passing lanes. Will be interesting to see if self pulls that out again or goes back to his normal stuff.

@Kcmatt7 Not sure if that’s a rebuttal or just you dropping that you went to the game. Either way - I had never seen him until the game. I was expecting a large bruiser McCormack type, not a Darren Hancock 6’6” post type. That’s all not disparaging the guy.

@benshawks08 said in The 5 spot:

anyone know if we’ve pressed that much in a preseason game before? Was it just a result of being way down or an actual glimpse at a possible strategy this year? Normally the bill self full court defense is just straight man to man pick up your guy on the inbounds but I saw Juan and jalen working traps and trying to really disrupt, leaving a ball hawk like McCullar to get in passing lanes. Will be interesting to see if self pulls that out again or goes back to his normal stuff.

Yup, that was seemingly new territory for Self. Pressing really hasn't been part of his strategy over the years. If i were to guess i'd say he dabbles in pressing a bit more this year, given our potential scoring issues. He likely wants to create his "havoc" and some turnovers for easier buckets.

@dylans said in The 5 spot:

@Kcmatt7 Not sure if that’s a rebuttal or just you dropping that you went to the game. Either way - I had never seen him until the game. I was expecting a large bruiser McCormack type, not a Darren Hancock 6’6” post type. That’s all not disparaging the guy.

Hmm, not sure we were looking at the same guy. Seemed pretty big to me. For sure not a Hancock 6-6 type to my old eyeballs. Not well defined and muscular yet. true.

@rockchalkjayhawk short. I meant he is short. I was expecting more of a true 5. Just had the wrong expectations, that’s all. He’s not skinny or weak. Not super explosive like Hancock - bad example. Doesn’t have t-Rex arms. First impression after the recruiting hype - He just appears shorter than I expected for a “bruising” post. Not a true 5 type. It’s might be better or worse depending on matchup.

@Kcmatt7 yeah he’s tall and lanky maybe that’s what the other poster meant (he looked skinny but said small). He’s a legit 6-10/6-11 guy I think

@rockchalkjayhawk this year he will do it more than any year however, his talk down in Houston he explained his philosophy, “no easy baskets ever”.

He thus hates pressing because if beaten correctly a press often ends in a layup or dunk and isn’t worth the risk compared to potentially getting a steal.

I agree with him here but in todays game you gotta defend the three point line and not just the rim

I need to watch more apparently. Just saw about half of the first half. Udeh is 6’10”? but I thought he looked 6’6” maybe I had him confused with another player. Lots of new faces.

Udeh is quite tall, probably tallest on the team so I do think you were thinking of someone else @dylans

@BShark must have them confused. Feed sucked here. Hard to tell the new guys apart - don’t know their tendencies/movement styles yet.

@dylans said in The 5 spot:

I need to watch more apparently. Just saw about half of the first half. Udeh is 6’10”? but I thought he looked 6’6” maybe I had him confused with another player. Lots of new faces.

You might be thinking of Zuby Ejiofor who is listed at 6-9, 240 on KU's roster.

@dylans said in The 5 spot:

@BShark must have them confused. Feed sucked here. Hard to tell the new guys apart - don’t know their tendencies/movement styles yet.

Yup. i got confused with a few faces. Didn't really know Udeh vs Zuby going in.

Udeh looks like a 40 year old! :)

And I was like, who's that guy with the mini fro? Cuffe!

Watching UNC now. Kinda glad we didn’t get Nance. He’s kind of a stiff

Power rankings after last night:

1. Udeh
2. KJ
3. Zach
4. Zuby

Udeh just provides this team with exactly what they need. A rim running big man who provides rim protection. He ran the floor like Tshiebwe last night. I was thoroughly impressed.

KJ still let’s us play a style of run run run. He rebounded well last night. Now if he can just be a little more of an offensive threat that’d be nice. He should be the guy tearing up the zone. Get it to him at the FT line and then he just goes over the top of the zone… Maybe next season.

Zach didn’t do much yesterday. Didn’t get a chance to do much, but it is clear to me he isn’t going to get much run. Not when you have three Adonis-like dudes you’re competing against.

Zuby also got like no run. The only reason Zach ranks ahead is because if he isn’t going to get experience now, I guess I’d rather have the Sophomore in the game. I’d like to see Zuby get 10-15 one of these games coming up.

@Kcmatt7 https://theathletic.com/3774169/2022/11/08/kansas-jayhawks-win-ernest-udeh-jr/ ↗

:writing_hand_light_skin_tone:

“I liked the matchup with KJ, because we were gonna sag on him,” Crutchfield said. “We could give help with his man. But when the big fella’s out there, I mean, it’s a different story.”

Our eyes did not lie.

@BShark hopefully bill’s espn+ feed was better than most.

It’s obvious we are a better team with Udeh. When KJ and Juan are out there then it’s horrible spacing because the D can sag off those guys and clog the lane. Wilson and McCullar can’t drive as well because the D doesn’t honor a kick out to 2 players.

Udeh needs 25-28 mpg with kj filling in the rest. Bill has that long, athletic rim runner who will learn to block shots better paired with some guard who I think can shoot it (Gradey and Wilson). McCullar will come around and if Bobby can shoot 32-33% then we are going to be dangerous!

@kuballin10 Something else I am monitoring is the back-up wing minutes. KJ was very not good in those spots imo and hopefully MJ can get/stay healthy and take those minutes.

KJ doesn't have much of a fit here but he plays hard and last night made an impact with his offensive rebounding/passing/moving the ball. Still waiting for any of his FT's or perimeter shots to hit the rim though. I know they worked with him this offseason but that shot is still not good.

@BShark KJ in the 4 wasn’t good. He did have a nice pass for a lob to Udeh but offensively with him unable to even look to drive, Juan is the same and udeh can’t even post up the offense is brutal

KJ and Harris don’t do a lot of things other players can’t do but they sure do a bunch of things a lot of players DONT do that lead to winning. It’s gonna be tough for self/norm to sit a guy that does everything he preaches and was a small but important piece of a national championship team.

@benshawks08 there is some truth to this but not enough weight to garner the minutes (especially kj) that they will play.

We got down 21-6 to a d2 school who isn’t some top d2 ranked team.

Omaha is over 300 in kenpom and crutchfield said when kj is in theyd play off him (said in another thread by Bshark).

When we play legit teams who have 6-10 to 7 footers KJ’s hustle will only go so far and his absolute zero threat offensively means the big man guarding him can camp in the lane so we can’t drive. That forces us to Chuck 3’s and this isn’t a good three point shooting team.

Part of the problem is Bill’s allegiance to said players as he sees their positive traits but negates a lot of their negatives which domino effect into why offensively we are hurting ourselves further with lineups.

When kj comes in Bobby should sub in for Juan so he’s at least guarded from deep.

@kuballin10 I love Bobby but he’s made one three. Not sure he’s a respected deep threat yet.

KJ is undersized, as noted by pretty much everyone, so if he's our 5, any team with a decent big over 6-8 is going to be a problem for him. There's just nothing you can do when you are giving up 2-3 inches to a guy that can actually play.

As for the others, Udeh is pretty clearly the furthest along, and should get minutes that reflect that. Ejifor is going to be a bit of a project. I think Clemence should get minutes, but I worry that he is going to be as bad a defender as we feared, possibly worse. His lateral quickness just isn't very good, and teams can put him in bad PnR situations to exploit that. I think KU is going to have to defend PnR differently depending on which lineup is in. With KJ, you just switch everything because he can harass even quicker guards on the perimeter with his athleticism. With Udeh, you can play more straight up. With Ejifor and Clemence you probably have to ice the screen (force the defender to the nearest sideline) to limit the options of the ball handler by using the sideline as a third defender.

Having those changing strategies will require some discipline from our guards though, because they will have to be aware of which big is guarding the screen at all times. You can't mix up that KJ just came in for Ejifor, for example, expect to ice the screen to the sideline, and miss the switch. That's a dunk pretty much every time.

There are some pretty clear limitations for our 4/5 rotation. That will probably be the biggest thing to watch here early.

@benshawks08 he’s unknown by other teams right now. Juan was similar and as the year went on teams figured out he was no threat and would sag off him much like kj just making our offense impossible to run when two guys aren’t threats.

Swain or someone posted a picture of Pitt state sagging so far off us to start daring us to shoot. If Boschee can figure that out the same will happen with other coaches.

Me watching Udeh, a large athletic big after 2 years being removed from Udoka

best Aaron Lewis impersonation IT'S BEEEEEEEEN AWHILE

Great stuff as usual from CJ. And as a matter of course, these things don’t get written without at least a passing glance from one Billy Eugene Self https://theathletic.com/3774169/2022/11/08/kansas-jayhawks-win-ernest-udeh-jr/?source=user_shared_article ↗

@FarmerJayhawk does it suggest Udeh will start and be the guy going forward? CJ is great I probably need to pony up the $1-$2

One thing for sure I found out afterward about our 5's - -between Udeh - - Clemence - - - & Ejiofor - -they managed 3 shots - - - THREE for the entire game, - -umm my friends that's not gonna get it done. - They have to be more involved in the offense then that. We have got to work more to get them more involved then that offensively.

If were gonna run with that then were in trouble. If we got KJ on the floor who poses no offensive Threat - - Juan who really isn't a great threat - - and then Our big's get THREE SHOTS for an entire game between them - - were in TROUBLE

On another note - -I found a flaw with Grady lol yes believe it or not - - Grady is gonna have to hit the boards harder then that - -Against Omaha - he got TWO - - Two boards not good

@jayballer67 I think the lack of boards for Grady is a result of him being the wing who is supposed to leak out and run. Let Wilson grab the boards and push it.

@benshawks08 said in The 5 spot:

@jayballer67 I think the lack of boards for Grady is a result of him being the wing who is supposed to leak out and run. Let Wilson grab the boards and push it.

Braun was a wing

@jayballer67 If Gradey can add that dimension (which he will), he will be pretty dynamic. Sweetest stroke in a minute.

I have not kept up well so far with this team. From what little I have seen Udeh is the best Big.

Zach seems lost. His play style does not appear to be suitable to this team which likes to run. Unless coaches come up with some specific plays for him, catch and shoot 3s type, I do not see him getting much PT this year.