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What I'd like to see by March...

Dajuan/Kevin/Gradey/JWill/Udeh

Bench: Bob/KJ/MJ

Three clear bench roles here. Bob for the 1-2, MJ can slot in 2-4 but I'd lean 3-4 and be careful about who he is in with. KJ the bench big and can play the 4 in a pinch but I'd avoid that.

Need to make sure Bob is playing 25 a night, he's amazing. Absolutely a Bill Self PG. If not for Juan being well... Bill's lost son I think Bob would be starting by now. To me he has been better so far, but both are very good which is a nice problem to have.

KJ is frustrating in some ways but has clear value. He is a menace defensively but goodness he needs to at least keep his head up on offense.

Some people (as @FarmerJayhawk noted the clowns at RCB included) are down on Kevin but he is a floor raising player. He's never going to be bad, even when he isn't scoring is the thing. He was a big part of why NDSU was in hell offensively the first half. When this team is engaged on D are are nasty.

Udeh is more along than I would have guessed. I heard conflicting reports about this before the season but clearly he is a guy that is already contributing. He already has great synergy with Bobby.

MJ is insanely talented but you can also see why he frustrates Bill. Hopefully this goes in the right direction after being in the dog house because him being the bench wing does help this team a lot.

Gradey will be up and down especially on D (he does try and is long these things help) but clearly a key cog for us.

Jalen has had the 4th year under Bill "it's my team" ascension that we have seen in the past with Frank, Graham, Och etc

Joe is right on the fringe of the rotation I feel. He is not playing as a guard for us which does help him because he'd be buried behind Juan/Joe. He is playing at the wing in our current system. Obviously we get a lot smaller with him in the game but there will be times when his offense helps us.

You nailed it that’s why I don’t think it’s even possible for someone to unseat Juan. Juan is Bills security blanket. He starts the game off and runs things as Bill wants to see what works.

The key is playing Udeh at the 5 against Duke because KJ will get eaten alive. He literally caught a dime from Bobby uncovered and didn’t even look to score thinking he had a 6-10 slow white guy on him. Wait until it’s Lively. Udeh has to play and honestly Zuby should be some as well because I’m off the KJ train. He excels against these scrub teams but once we play legit D1 competition we will all see the huge drop off offensively as we labor to score. Kj doesn’t even look at the rim or to drive and kick - it’s brutal.

Bobby with his ability to get in the paint at will, throw perfect lobs (Juan is clumsy), and hit floaters (Juan can’t) is 100% the reason he should start and at worse play more minutes.

I view the team in lineups based on offense/defense depending on what we want to control.

Defensively best lineup
Juan
Kevin
Gradey
Wilson
Udeh

Offensively
Bobby
MJ or Joe whoever’s hot but I lean MJ
Gradey
Wilson
Udeh

Your squad of who will play is right on. Seems Clemence is over Zuby for scrub big minutes. Mj and Joe is the other one to see who is knocking down shots will then play the most so it’s a game to game thing.

@BShark I agree with everything you said, that would make up a very nice rotation. - -There are times we need to play bigger , last night was one of them. I like KJ but against real height he just can't match up then becomes a liability - no offensive threat , at least at this point.

I've been pleasantly surprised by Udeh going to be fun to watch him progress, It's nice to have depth at the five , then IF Udeh is in foul trouble even at this point I think I would as at this point and time rather put Zuby in to relieve Udeh over Zach. - Yes Zach is mobile and can stretch the floor BUT the energy/hustle Zuby brings is awesome I think they said he has played 10 minutes so far this season and in those ten minutes he has 10 rebounds.

Kevin is very disruptive on the defensive end and can and hs sparked the team when needed.- These guys are pretty nasty defensively when they turn it up and by the middle of the year or towards the end - - -LOOK OUT they will be down right ugly. - In my eyes they might be by years end be the best team ever Coach has had defensively.

The ONE thing I have heard from some people and actually can't believe they are actually saying it though is they say that Jank should get Juan' minutes. - - WHAT ? ? ? ? - -Are you fricken SERIOUS ? - & if you are let me have some of that shit your smoking because it has to be some really good smoke.

Mercy I don't even see how those words could come out the mouth., So your wanting to Bench a multiple year player for a walk on , Question what is Juans position again ? - - He is a POINT GUARD. - What is a PT Guards main responsibility - -his main thing is to take care of the ball , run the sets ,- -make the assists. - -Sure score when you can , but his chief responsibility is to dish and find the open guy to score.

So tell me this you actually think Jank is going to be able to score ENOUGH to off set his ball handling and turnovers and defensively ? to replace Juans minutes ? -- Roflmao, come on sure not, geez Seriously ? Have we forgotten who was the or one of the main ones who help to bring us back from that deficit in the national Championship game last year ? - -I sure in the hell haven't forgotten.

Juan right now is averaging 8.0 this year- -he has a 13 - - -to 1 assist to turnover ratio s far this year - he has 3 steals - & averaging 2.5 rebounds.. Sure I like Jank but dam - -replace Juan minutes to Jank - - PLEASE. - Now if anything I would say switch Bobby & Juan minutes if anything. - -Bobby is playing great just been hard for him because of health - -hope to GOD he can remain healthy this year - -Bobby & Juan are very interchangeable . I would have no problems with that at all, Bobby - Averaging 7.5 - -& has a 10 - - -to 1 assist to TO ration - -between our two pg that works out to - -23 assists to - -2 turnovers -- I'd say that's pretty dam good. - Bobby also a couple of Steals. - -Bobby & Juan changing time - - Cool - -Jank & Juan - - -Na , I'll hard pass - -Thanks. -

Yeah I think Self will stick with 9 (including Yesufu). Yes can be instant offense and his defense so far has looked very good.

If Bobby continues to play like he has I feel he'll take some minutes from someone. We may see more of Bobby/Juan on the floor together as well at times.

Jalen has ascended, he's got All-American vibes but its early. I had really high hopes for him out of High School but he's surpassed what I thought he could be. Thank Jon Beilein every day for leaving for the Cavs!

All I know is... I saw some major potential with Rice last night! He's still getting healthy but his athleticism will be huge for this team. If he received big minutes he could become our best rebounder. The guy plays above the rim!

I know we haven't played anyone yet... but wow! This team is coming together quickly! Can't ever recall a team this young and with so many pieces playing anything that even looks like basketball this early in the season! We only had 9 TOs and we constantly shuffled players in and out!

I am sensing we have pretty good basketball IQ as a team... and that is something we haven't always had with Self teams.

So glad to see many of you jumping on my enthusiasm bandwagon!

The Duke game might bring us back to earth... but I'm not sure we are a good matchup for them! We might run them out of the gym! (wishful thinking here)

I don't know when I've ever been this jacked up on our team! Felt pretty darn good about our 2020 team with Doke... but I'm quickly passing that!

@drgnslayr Definitely with you on the Bball iq thing. Seems like almost everyone on this team already “gets it”. Winning another title and putting guys like Och and Braun in the league surely grabs most players attention and respect.

I didn’t know anything about Udeh coming in but heard him and self on hawk talk. Self was comparing him to Dave academically and brains wise so that’s pretty high praise there. He sounded so humble and just kept saying, I listen to these coaches because they definitely know more than me. I think the most impressive thing I’ve seen from Udeh so far is that transition dunk last night. That’s not a pass and situation a ton of big guys can manage so smoothly. Caught it in rhythm, measured his massive strides, and slammed it without traveling or bumbling the ball at all.

@jayballer67 Great points about jank and Harris. You might be right. Maybe Jank should be getting minutes instead of kevin or Grady instead. Gotta get a shooter like that on the floor!

Yup, Sharkie, that rotation sounds right to me.

Before the season I thought Zuby would be a key the guy in the middle. But after seeing his slightly smaller size, he’s got some things to perfect before he sees a ton of time on the floor.

Although Jalen has helped soothe some concern about 3 pt shooting, I still think we need somebody else to make some shots from deep if Self wants to take more 3s this season.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

Yup, Sharkie, that rotation sounds right to me.

Before the season I thought Zuby would be a key the guy in the middle. But after seeing his slightly smaller size, he’s got some things to perfect before he sees a ton of time on the floor.

Although Jalen has helped soothe some concern about 3 pt shooting, I still think we need somebody else to make some shots from deep if Self wants to take more 3s this season.

I think Udeh and Zuby will both be really good eventually. Won't be this year for Zuby but he is a guy I think will surprise once it is his time to start. He is already an animal on the glass but he is still learning a lot of things. Udeh is learning on the job as well (basically just set a pick go to the rim) but his size and better defense will get him time this year.

@drgnslayr

Agree, especially the first half last night made you start dreaming of really good things.

I'm surprised we've looked this clean and cohesive this early with all the new faces. Credit to the coaches and the vets returning. Seems like J Will, Juan, Kevin, Joe are real veteran leadership kinda guys with zero ego's. You would never know Kevin wasn't here half a decade already the way he's fit in so far.

@BeddieKU23 Yeah, Kevin is a perfect fit. Can't overstate the leadership of Harris and Wilson. It's clearly their team and doesn't seem like anyone has an issue with that, including them.

The 1 free transfer is going to allow Bill to win more titles. KU has great recruits but we are never on Duke or UK’s level.

Bill has to have and loves experience so with the 1 free transfer he can get that.

I’d expect him grabbing a 6-8 Wilson type (hopefully same shooter but more athletic) in the portal to pair with our guards and bigs

@kuballin10 It's just so funny because all of last year was about how difficult it was for the new transfer to fit in, and he only finally got it and healthy at the very end of the year (thank god!) but kevin has just slid into the starting lineup as if he's in his 3rd or fourth season in a KU Uniform. Looks good on him in my opinion.

@benshawks08 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

@kuballin10 It's just so funny because all of last year was about how difficult it was for the new transfer to fit in, and he only finally got it and healthy at the very end of the year (thank god!) but kevin has just slid into the starting lineup as if he's in his 3rd or fourth season in a KU Uniform. Looks good on him in my opinion.

Fit and coachability is important. Remy was allowed to do w/e he wanted for 4 years and clashed with Self.

Zuby's rebounding hawkishness has me thinking hmmmmmmm.
When many were, and rightly so, admiring the spark and play of Bobby I didn't think it was threatening for Juan. We heard stories about Bobby last spring, from the coaches, that kept telling us how special Pettiford was looking during practice. I was hoping to see what the big deal was all about. I am glad to report the coaches were right. Lol. His ability to finish on drives was just great and assists everywhere picked up the team energy. When he subs there won't be any warm up delay because he just goes into action immediately. Yes!!!

Juan makes me feel warm and safe both on offense and defense. He's not going anywhere soon.

When the team was being special in the first half everyone was involved. When it got sloppy in the second half everyone was involved also. We are just two games in. We don't know what's up yet!

@Zabudda said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

Juan makes me feel warm and safe both on offense and defense. He's not going anywhere soon.

Juan can defend and takes pride in it. As much as I don’t enjoy watching him offensively he’s the one guy on D I constantly follow and ignore the ball. He’s a stud defensively.

If he can knock down a few threes or get to the line more my gripe offensively would dial back. Self shouldn’t say he can shoulder the scoring load if it isn’t true though did the kid no favors before the season.

You are absolutely right Bobby is legit and zero drop off when he comes in. Better offensively and he’s been scraping getting steals defensively.

This is Bills type of team better defensively than offensively, has a legit athletic big. Only thing we are missing is the ability to throw it in down low and score otherwise this is the type of team I’d see him draw up.

@BeddieKU23

Seems like Gradey is playing like a sophomore or junior! What a level kid! But we'll see if he keeps his cool when playing Duke away from Lawrence.

I think yesfu is still potentially a big bench piece. We are offensively limited in some ways and he has some much explosiveness and ability to score that others don’t have. Bobby and jaun are defensive pass first guys and poor shooters. in certain matchups we need yesfu!

Udeh definitely should be the starting center as we move forward. Love kj as an energy guy and defensive bench guy but not the starter yet…He really needs to grow offensively to play more.

Fastest team in the Bill Self era? Smartest team since 2008? Bill found a new way to beat teams in the tournament last year, and he's "running" with it. This is a really great thread- great points by numerous posters. My only add is I am hesitant to anoint MJ quite yet. Saw some talented moves, but also saw some glaring rookie mistakes. I hope he stays humble and teachable, even if only for the one year he's here.

@jayhawks2010 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

I think yesfu is still potentially a big bench piece. We are offensively limited in some ways and he has some much explosiveness and ability to score that others don’t have. Bobby and jaun are defensive pass first guys and poor shooters. in certain matchups we need yesfu!

Udeh definitely should be the starting center as we move forward. Love kj as an energy guy and defensive bench guy but not the starter yet…He really needs to grow offensively to play more.

Joe's biggest issue wrt this roster/team is he needs the ball in his hands to be at his best but we aren't playing him at PG because we have two guys ahead of him there.

It’s early but 5 guys have stood out to me as championship quality pieces.

Jalen Wilson is a do it all player and our go to guy at the moment. When thing get tough the team is going to look for him early in the season.

Gradey Dick is long and more disruptive on the defensive end than I expected. Oh yeah he’s the best shooter on the team as well. Best talent on the team, looks like a pro in the near future.

Earnest Udeh isn’t a 7ft Embiid type, nor is he a 6’10” McCormack type. He’s his own guy - not the tallest or thickest, but he moves like a 3 and seems to be a hard nosed player - KUs best big by a long shot.

Kevin McCullar has been a lock down presence on defense. He is ridiculously strong for someone that moves as well as he does. And can find his shot when needed - not a pure shooter more of a driver.

MJ Rice - the sample size is smallest, but he popped off the screen in his debut. MJ is the most athletic basketball player on the team and scoring comes easy to him. (Self has had some athletes that never figured out basketball this isn’t one of them). He’s aggressive on offense, once he settles into the program I expect better results within the framework of the offense. MJ has the most upside at this point.

And as a bonus 6th DeJuan Harris has already led the Jayhawks to a championship. His defense is on point and his leadership skills are unmatched on the team.

Can’t wait to see how it shakes out.

You know some have said MJ reminds them some of a young Wayne Sheldon - -I watched the other night, and you know what - - if nothing else he does look like at least a little like Wayne now not talking basketball wise -- BUT his facial features does lok some like Wayne - check him out next time lol. - In the face you would think could be Wayne all over again

@jayballer67 Bill wasn’t lying about mj like he was with Juan shouldering the scoring loan

@kuballin10 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

@jayballer67 Bill wasn’t lying about mj like he was with Juan shouldering the scoring loan

Can't change a player's hoop dna we all knew that was bs lol. Don't know if everyone caught it but they talked to Dajuan after the last game and he was like "Coach has been getting on me to score more but..." :face_with_tears_of_joy:

I see Cuffe went down in practice today with MCL and PCL. no surgery, they say. How do you not need surgery?

According to acting KU coach Norm Roberts, Cuffe tore his MCL and PCL ligaments while running up the court in practice. Roberts said it was a non-contact injury and that Cuffe is expected to be able to return to basketball activities in 10-12 weeks.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

I see Cuffe went down in practice today with MCL and PCL. no surgery, they say. How do you not need surgery?

According to acting KU coach Norm Roberts, Cuffe tore his MCL and PCL ligaments while running up the court in practice. Roberts said it was a non-contact injury and that Cuffe is expected to be able to return to basketball activities in 10-12 weeks.

I’m not qualified to answer this, but this is the internet after all. I’m guessing it’s a lateral tear?

Or it’s a move to have him RS again to save a year considering we are at reduced scholarships next year. A move after the season started which didn’t give him a chance to transfer.

Clemence is day to day after taking a shot to the nose in the game Thursday

@BeddieKU23 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

Clemence is day to day after taking a shot to the nose in the game Thursday

That shot was brutal. Are they not doing auto techs for elbows to the head anymore?

@benshawks08 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

@BeddieKU23 said in Way Too Early Line-up and Player Thoughts:

Clemence is day to day after taking a shot to the nose in the game Thursday

That shot was brutal. Are they not doing auto techs for elbows to the head anymore?

Just a miss on the official's part, I guess. It was a bang bang play but clearly the offensive player was at fault and should have been reprimanded for the use of that arm