🏀 KuBuckets Archive

We paid CW $2.5m /year for the following victories :

• Central Michigan 2014
• SE Missouri State 2014
• West Virginia 2013
• LA Tech 2013
• South Dakota 2013
• South Dakota State 2012

TG was given a 5yr/$10m contract for the following victories:

• No Illinois 2011
• McNeese State 2011
• New Mexico St. 2010
• Georgia Tech 2010
• Colorado 2010

$1million/victory would be a salary reduction from what Turner Gill and Charlie Weiss made.

And right now, if someone came in and got 8 more wins out of this season, it would probably be worth $8 million dollars.

Do you think any coach would take the job if it was set up as pay-for-performance at a million per win?

I Agee we've been paying a million per win, but I'm not in favor of paying a million for a cupcake mid major win. I would bet there are a lot of coaches that would settle for a million dollars a year for a dismal season of one significant win.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but six wins/year minimum is the mentality needed to consider this program close to par for the course.

But at the end of the day I would be happy to see us pay a coach MILLIONS per year, one year contracts with our option to fire or pay him more the next year with bonus money tied to conference wins.

@JayhawkRock78 good point, and I agree with the mid-major win price. Still, that's what we've been paying for already. I'll modify the payouts below, but want to keep this idea of pay-for-performance model...

I guess a better question is: Would the pool of potential candidates (the interest in the position) change if we set up the job as pay-for-performance... $1m / conference victory. ($300k per non-conference victory.) ($1.5m / bowl victory)

That's a set up that would have cost us less than we've been paying for the current performance.

But the hope is that this model would allure the best candidates. A coach that believes in himself could make this his heaven -- making more than any other peer. Maybe we couldn't afford to go to a bowl game.. but can we afford to continue losing at this rate?

CW was 41-49 as a head coach in college football. He went 41-49 and made $65 Million dollars. Thats good work if you can get it.

That's $1.5 million per victory for Charlie over his tenure as head coach.

Wonder when Tom Brady will stop being his reference?

Football is the key to most successful college programs and boy did Snyder work a miracle.
Do you know that KSU is about to start another huge building project? This one is 65 million.
Visit Manhattan and you'll find a bunch of new hotels around town. They are selling out a big stadium, selling gear, etc. Some would like the bball program to move up, but the mentality and money in college athletics is in Football.

We are lucky to have the bball program we do, but it can't continue to carry the weight by itself in the long term. We are lucky to be part of the TV money the Big 12 is passing out.

So I don't mind KU throwing extra money at a proven BCS coach. I can't believe with gave two 5 year contracts with guaranteed money back to back. Maybe our interim coach can make some noise, but if he doesn't lets come up with enough money to get the right people here, and limit the contract to two or three years. Do your magic with your formula and get the program back on its feet. "If you build it, they will come." Coaches-Athletes-Fans-infinity.

@JayhawkRock78

Do you really believe a "proven BCS" coach would take the KU job? If yes, who?

Mangino and Leach were victims of the wussification of the USA, and unbelievably in one of the most masculine testosterone out of your ears sports in the world. So, firing Magino was our fist mistake in my mind.
Second, not to go deep in our pockets and throw enough money at someone proven out of the gate. (I heard Texas offered 10 million to Nick Saban which he turned down). I think you might get a proven guy to change schools with a million dollar a year raise.

At this point we are desperate, and I just wonder if there is someone out there like a Mack Brown who wants another challenge or wants a change. I've left jobs for a change/challenge before.

@JayhawkRock78

I fully agree that Mangino and Leach got raw deals.

To a proven coach that is already making millions an extra million will not make a difference, considering the risk to ones career after coaching at KU. Gill is now coaching at Jerry Falwell's school and Weis likely will most likely not ever get a HC position again....plus KU does not have the money considering the last 3 buyouts.

Yes, it's hard to believe we've just dug a bigger financial hole as we've gone along. The new TV contract took us from something like 13 million a year to 21 or 22 million a year. I would like to see half of the increase go to fixing the football program.

I want the job!

@JayHawkFanToo that well never dries up! Amazing!

I don't think we'd be able to limit a new hire that's worth a damn to a 2-3 year contract. Guys like that are going to demand 4+ years, your right arm & both legs, and your first born. Proven Power 5 coaches are going to want stability and security. Hell, we promised 5 years with ridiculous cash to two guys that weren't proven. That's why we won't be able to hire a coach that has proven themselves at another P5 school for those terms (2-3yr). Plus there's no way we lure a current P5 coach away from their current position even with (in my best Austin Powers voice) one million dollars. I know Zenger said this “We feel like we can do whatever is necessary for whomever fits our needs the best." but do we really want to take a chance on a guy that's probably going to demand Bill Self's salary and his parking spot too??? Right now for any P5 HCs and OCs/DCs at Top 25 schools KU is a demotion unless we're offering the moon. Minnesota has the lowest P5 HC salary at 1.2 million. And for us to get a good coach we would have to start looking at what we were paying for two below avg guys we just canned. So to get these P5 proven guys to come here we're going to have to add a ton of cash to their current salaries which would make them worth more than HCBS. Like I said in the other thread, our best bet is going to be someone that has ties to here and hope it works out for the best. And please don't pay the next HC more!

And did anyone hear about Weis and his KUvsUT pre-game show?? Chuck says: "They can give it to Bergeron too..." Really!! The problem is, Bergeron was Berger-gone a long damn time ago!! Did he record the pre-game show this past spring/summer?? Zenger should have fired his unprepared ass right then and there! How out of touch with the whole game was Charlie?? Did he not sit down with the DCs and go over things?? Which leads me to this... was Bowen aware that Bergeron had been released??

@bskeet I think you're going about this all wrong. Here's the ways I'd set it up.

Start with a base salary of 5 million. Each loss take away a half mil.

With each loss, assuming the coach is married, we have to get the wife on board with this, no 'privileges' until he wins again.

He starts the year with no KU basketball tickets because we know that's really why anyone would take the KU job. Win a game, get tickets to two games, top row underneath the Pay Heed sign. With each win, move down a few rows and closer to center court. I'M TELLING YOU PEOPLE, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE"LL EVER GET A GOOD FOOTBALL COACH AGAIN.

Go winless in the big 12, you're rooming with a 3rd string offensive lineman who will eat all of your food. Do it two years in a row, you're under the bridge by the Kaw.

We've just got to think outside the box to get the right man, or woman, for the job.

@wissoxfan83 great ideas! I'd like for the fired one to pay the next ones salary.

If money is the motivator at that level, basing their salary on wins is pointless. They all "want" to win. The thing is, only some coaches are true winners (no matter what they're paid) and the rest are blowhards and phonies who managed to cultivate a perception of success on the backs of others.

@wissoxfan83
LMAO mister out of the box!

@DanR
Yes-they all want wins, but the "w" would be the deliverable.
Unfortunately the contracts are already set as previously stated, and KU has paid dearly for this system in the football world.

Meanwhile, Bill Self came in and has earned TWO big contracts based on wins and titles.

Yeah, the system is flawed when winners and losers seem to be so similarly rewarded.

Since the untraceable bailouts, money is never a limitation. The limitation is the ability recognize a great coaching prospect, hire him an support him till he wins. Why does KU HIRE GOOD BASKETBALL COACHES SO OFTEN? Because there are a lot of folks around KU that know what a winning basketball coach looks like. Not so with football. We are fighting ignorance here. That is why I advocate hiring Self to find the next football coach. He is the best shot we have to recognize a good young coach. Together, he and Zenger could solve the problem easily. But the deep pockets have to tell bGL they will support the choice.

Dana Dimel. If he is a Bill Snyder protege, I want that.

@HighEliteMajor

Bill Snyder.

Bill Self.

Bill Belichick.

Bill Walsh.

Bill Cowher..

Are there any good young prospects named Bill?😄

@jaybate-1.0 You forgot Billy Martin!

@jaybate-1.0 remove belichick

The guy I wanted when they hired Weis, was from Eastern Illinois, Dino Babers, who left for Bowling Green this year, after he lost his star stud QB Jimmy Garrapolo to a second round pick by the Pats. If that name rings the bell, he's Belichick's back up OB that replaced Brady in the 4th quarter of tonight's MNF beat down by the Chiefs. He's a helluva coach & would have been pennies on the mills that both TG & CW have lavished in. Not only might we have the new BB dorms, we might have even won a couple more games too !!

@jaybate-1.0 Bill "Andy" Reid (Heck, I don't know, call him "Bill," but also call him Owner over New England Patriots 41 - 14 !!)

At the very least the "Face of the franchise" is more appealing to the fans & media now with Bowen than with Weis IMO. CW was always too chippy/smart elec when addressing the public. Now we get to find out if SZ can cut his buck or gets another whiff on a head coach. Any bets?

KU has to go with an unproven commodity.

Think of it this way.

In 1999, if you were a major college basketball program in need of a coach, you could have hired a pretty successful young coach from a midmajor program. That coach only had six years experience, and his overall record was just 97-76 (.560 winning percentage), but he was coming off a conference title (his first ever) and an NCAA tournament appearance. He wasn't a proven commodity yet, but if you had made the leap right then, you would have hired then Tulsa coach Bill Self. The next year Self led Tulsa to a 32-5 record, went to the Elite 8 and got the Illinois job. 3 years later he was the coach at Kansas. If you were a program that wanted to strengthen your basketball team, you would have had to hire Bill Self the year before he broke out and got the attention of the big boys. You would have had to hire Mr. .560 winning percentage with one conference title and one NCAA tournament appearance, because once Illinois came calling (a mid tier major conference school) if you were a bottom tier major conference school, you were out of luck.

KU is at the bottom of the major conference football pile. The only way to change that is to make the leap the year before everyone realizes what the coach is capable of and everyone comes calling. You want someone young (under 50) that may be ready to break out. You prefer HC experience and success although that success will likely be at the FCS or midmajor level.

With that, I submit the following candidates:

1. Mark Hudspeth, current HC at Louisiana Lafayette. 48 years old. 11 years experience as a head coach, 7 at North Alabama (FCS) where he was 66-21, 4 at UL-L, where he is 28-15. Has worked mostly in the south (Delta State, Central Ark., Mississippi St., etc.)

2. Troy Calhoun, current HC at Air Force. 48 years old. 8 years experience as head coach, all at Air Force. 52-42 record. Has some NFL experience as an OC.

3. Matt Campbell, current HC at Toledo. 34 years old. 4 years experience as head coach, all at Toledo. 20-11 record. Originally from Massillion, OH. Has worked either at BGSU, Mount Union (his alma mater) or Toledo.

4. Rod Carey, current HC at Northern Illinois. 43 years old. 2 years experience as head coach, all at No. Ill. 15-4 record. Originally from Madison, WI. Has always worked in Big 10 country.

5. Chris Creighton, current HC at Eastern Michigan. 45 years old. 18 years experience as head coach, 4 at Ottawa University (KS) (32-9), 7 at Wabash College (63-15), 6 at Drake (IA) (42-22) and this year at Eastern Michigan. He's won 8 conference titles.

Obviously, of this list, the most intriguing is Campbell. He's young, he's reasonably accomplished and he may be ready for a new challenge. There will probably be competition for him, but if KU gave him time, he could be a great hire.

The only way KU gets any reward from this hire is if they take a risk.

@justanotherfan You're right with your theory, but it's a crapshoot. Turner Gill was probably on a list like that 5 years ago. So was Mark Mangino I think before we got him. How do you get a coach is going to do well for you? Michigan's no better than KU in hiring coaches. They're a mess.

I like the choice of Hudspeth. Seems to have a good offensive mind.

@justanotherfan

I like your list. As I stated before, the chance of KU landing an established Major program coach are next to nill. Perhaps a capable assistant coach at a major program looking to break into the HC position might also be an option.

@wissoxfan83 I have an offensive mind too, and I could save KU a lot of money. Shoot, I'd work for a mil per year. Until we won the National Championship.

@wissoxfan83

Turner Gill should not have been in that list in the first place; his record as a head coach prior to KU was:

2006 2-10, Conference 1-3

2007 5-7, Conference 5-3

2008 8-6, Conference 5-3

2009 5-7, Conference 3-5

That is a combined 20-30 and 14-14 in the MAC. How in the wold does this record qualify Gill for a HC position at a BCS school? Just askin'

Maybe we can grab another Snyder assistant at KSU. His coaching tree is all over our conference.

@JayHawkFanToo @wissoxfan83

Turner Gill would not have been on that list five years ago. But let's post the resume of someone that would have been:

42 years old (in 2009). 18-9 record in two seasons at a midmajor school. Had previous experience as a position coach at several major conference schools, including stints as an offensive coordinator at two separate Power 5 schools. Coming off a season that saw his team go 10-4 and win their division in their conference.

That of course is the resume of Kevin Sumlin, now the head man at Texas A&M. KU probably could have landed him for the right price back in 2009. But they would have had to make that decision before Sumlin led Houston to a 12-1 season, because A&M came calling after that.

@justanotherfan

Kevin Sumlin would have been a grand slam hire back then. In 2009 KU was in good position to recruit a top tier coach, now it will have to settle for an unproven assistant, mid-major coach or a coach on his way down/out. KU is just not a desired destination at this time, it is the place where coaches got bid their last hurrah...for nice paycheck.

@JayHawkFanToo OK, I just mentioned it because he was a mid major coach who won some games and got his team in a bowl game. Thanks for the info though.

@wissoxfan83

Sumlin and Gill resumes are quite different.

Major applewhite
Kirby smart

I'd look at TE next Gus Malzan. Find a guy who has never had his shot as a head coach in college, like they did with Mangino.

The two listed above are names at the top of my head. Scott frost would be another and I say that even after the Gill debacle and ties to Nebraska.

Brady Hoke will be available next year I'm sure. But it has to be in his contract that he has to wear a head set!!!!

@JRyman

I think its critically important that we avoid coaches that have failed elsewhere. We can't just grab up Hoke right after the crash and burn job he's put together at Michigan. Not saying that Hoke won't be better in his next stop, but KU cannot offer him a situation that is any better than what he has right now in Ann Arbor. How can we feel like he will succeed here when he failed with better resources at UofM?

That's the biggest lesson of Charlie Weis. We ignored his ND failures and just looked at the name and experience, forgetting that all of the resources and tools that were available at ND were there when he failed so spectacularly and didn't factor in that he would not have the shadow of Touchdown Jesus to recruit from at Kansas.

I like both Applewhite and Smart. I doubt Smart leaves Bama unless he gets a nice contract, and he's never been a head coach. Applewhite is available, but has also never been a head coach, which is worrisome, as well as the fact that his UT offenses weren't exactly setting the world on fire. Frost is a nice name, but again, no HC experience. Frost is intriguing because he has been both a DC and an OC.

@justanotherfan The Hoke thing was more of a joke than anything, there fore the headset comment. I don't want him he always has an excuse ready and it's never his fault.

Gus Malzan had no head coaching experience besides at the highschool level before he went to a mid major for one year.

Mangino didn't even have mid major HC experience and Roy Wilkiams didn't even have HS HC experience.

Not sure about any of the names I through out just names that are possibly available. Your are probably right about Smart, but Applewhite spent a year on Dabans staff before going to Texas. He was also hand cuffed my an incompetent head coach in Mack Brown.

@JRyman

... and Roy Wilkiams didn't even have HS HC experience.

Hey, wait just one minute...Williams' first coaching job was in 1973 as a high school basketball and golf coach at Charles D. Owen High School in Black Mountain, N.C. He coached basketball and boys' golf for five years, ninth-grade football for four years, and served as athletic director for two years. Roy Williams also coached the JV at UNC for 8 years when he was serving as an assistant for Dean Smith.
No college HC basketball experience other than the JV though.

Ugh.. I don't even want to hear about the Gill hire anymore.. It's like an ugly memory from a drunken night that I want to believe didn't happen and would like to go away.

As disappointed as I am in CW, I think he did some good to the program. The Gill hire and tenure was a debacle.

Kirby Smart makes over 1 million a year to be the DC for 'Bama. You think he wants to give up a job of working with future NFL stars to take a chance at tarnishing his name to become the HC for a program in the dumps?? If Smart wanted to be a HC he would take a more attractive gig than KU. Same goes for Frost at Oregon.

We should look at Lincoln Riley from ECU. He's a Tx Tech, Mike Leach guy which means he's from the same OU Stoops coaching tree as Mangino. Shockingly he's turned down other P5 OC gigs to stay at ECU. Most likely waiting for a HC gig. Could KU be that place??

Phillip Montgomery, AKA Art Briles' right-hand man. Briles is a Leachian too. Do I need to list what Baylor has done recently??

If we want a top level assistant to be the next HC then we need to look at other Big12 guys that know the HS coaches in our recruiting corridor. Not guys familiar with the B1G, SEC, or PAC.

@justanotherfan : I like your research and the list of current HCs that could be viable candidates and especially like the last line The only way KU gets any reward from this hire is if they take a risk. I couldn't agree more. We're going to have to take a risk on some little known or virtually unknown HC, OC, or DC that's young and motivated. We'd all love to hire that Jim guy from the Niners but that's not happening! I've been looking at OCs and DCs with some ties to the Big12, KU, and Texas with the idea that will help recruiting.

The litmus test for the next KU football coach is can he bring in a large number of talented players immediately that can stay eligible and off police blotters.

Players first.

Then charisma.

Then schemes.

It is so simple.

Just do it.

No, we're not a Nike school: can't say that.

What is adidas slogan?

"Impossible is nothing."

The hell you say, adidas.

Many things are nothing.

We don't want nothing!!!

How about: "With our money backing you, you can be a champion NOW!"

:-)

@bskeet

I really didn't recall either coach winning even that many games!

Besides, asterisks need to go by those wins, because they were really nothing more than exhibition-grade opponents.

Legitimate D1 cupcakes always beat Weis and Gill.

I will always view Turner Fish Gill and Charles Never-in-Charge Weis as winless.

I will remember them as standing on the sidelines with black sunglasses, tin cups and canes begging for wins.

Coach Weis was especially pathetic, because he was old enough to have known better and apparently so willingly debased himself for the bones.

The two bookends of losing won a few exhibition games; that was all.

Next.