Recently the idea of KU Buckets T-Shirts came up, so I did a little legwork and was approached about running with the idea. So, is there enough interest?
A T-shirt would run about $8 plus shipping/handling. How many of you would buy one?
Is a polo shirt the better way to go? My best guess is $25 each.
I don't think I'd buy one, sorry.
Or are hats or bumper stickers a better idea?
I'm DEFINITELY IN for a shirt. T or Polo is fine. I've spent a lot more money on a lot worse stuff in my life!!
I'm always game for Hawkwear!
I will send in $8 but I want mine given to a poor person in Lawrence.
Some more suggested KUBuckets:
Danny Manning Head Sun Screen
Bill Self Hair Plugger
Jam Tray Crimson and Blueberry Jam
Snacks' Hi-Fat SNACKS.
Kurtis Townsend Ebony and Ivory Cuff Links
JayhawkFanToo GOBLUE! Keyboard with Dedicated Back Fill Key
AUTO-HOWLING!!!!!!!!!!
... Ditto Jaybate's comment above !! I want the shirt to be "Worn in Lawrence" whereby you will get the most visibility and overall PR. Tell us where to send the $$$ or Check and made out to who ?? Thank You, RedRooster
@jaybate-1.0 I don't call him Jam Tray! That's slayer, so change that. I know lots of poor people in Lawrence if you need help!
More Possible KUBuckets Memorabilia
KUBuckets All Natural Lake Henry Sun Screen
dragonslayr autographed crimson and blue gardening gloves made of old practice jersey remnants.
Sexy basketball net lingerie made from actual Allen Field House basketball nets modeled by Olivia Wilde.
A Blue Ray Disk of all the signings of Nike leans and adidas leans signing with Nike schools and adidas schools that support jaybate 1.0's conspiracy hypothesis.
Crimson and Blue #14 Welder's Masks for watching the coming total eclipse of the sun.
Sign me up for Olivia's outfit. I will pay for the cost if Jason can talk her into wearing it during halftime at a KU home game. Proceeds would be split between Olivia's & HCBS favorite charities. All. Kubuckets.com ask is a long carpet. With our name on the floor as she walks across it.
@jaybate-1.0 thinking I'd like bb net stockings! Not sure about # 14 welder's mask???
Are golf shirts a possibility? Also, what are you thinking for a logo. I know the people that run a certain mammary obsessed KU twitter feed got into trouble for releasing branded merchandise a year or two ago. I like the idea, but I'd hate for you or anyone else to suffer at the hands of an IP attorney.
@JayhawkRock78 You can count me in for one. T-shirt or polo is fine with me.
Maybe a few more, in kids sizes. Christmas is coming, they would make great stocking stuffers! :)
I was thinking the site logo with Naismith holding the ball with the red KU and kubuckets,com below it. This would not be a money making venture but I am wary of this kind of trouble. I also thought of a Jayhawk and kubuckets.com but maybe that is even risky.
I would it think there isnt any risk in a simple "ku.buckets.com" line across a shirt, or hat, or bumper sticker. I offered to kick in some cash before.
Maybe I should just make a few hats and give them away to the site guys and a few ku kids and place a few adds in the UDK and LJW announcing our site?
(The printers told me a t-shirt with a collar is called a polo and is embroidered). But hey, I think we should give these out to approx/bskeet and designated web site studs regardless.
Please-anyone feel free to shoot down, add on, or let me know your opinions.
Another idea would be to put a list of the users with over 100 posts on the back with KUBuckets.com and logo on the front. That's 42 posters as of today with a few more on the cusp.
Remember that great Bonnie Raitt song where she sang, "Let's give them something to talk about..."!KUBCON.jpg ↗
"dragonslayr autographed crimson and blue gardening gloves made of old practice jersey remnants."
*with authentic poison ivy urushiol remnants. The gift that keeps on giving!
Howling!
I remember Cal's "We're chasing perfection" t-shirts ended up on the 50-cent rack.
How about a spin off slogan...
"Perfection keeps chasing us"
University of Kansas
Jayhawk Basketball
University of Kansas
Jayhawk Basketball
We found it!
University of Kansas
Jayhawk Basketball
Since 1898
Our first parking lot was a horse stable!
University of Kansas
Jayhawk Basketball
116-year winning streak!
University of Kansas
Jayhawk Basketball
Playing Naismith Ball since 1898!
Naismith invented it...
Wilt perfected it...
Kansas Basketball
Dragon-I am impressed. Would you put the kubuckets.com on the same side? Or if different sides-which front versus back?
How about this-What will be the number of years ku buckets has accumulated in fan years is?
100 users average 20 years is 2,000 years of Jayhawk Fandom?
KU.BUCKETS.COM. 2,000 years of ku fans/knowledge can't be wrong.
Unfortunately, anything with Kansas University or Jayhawk or even with the crimson and blue color and any reference to basketball would have KU lawyers all over it and there is now a precedent...just ask Joe-College.com
Thanks for the link-that scares me but the intent is non-profit-
Just exposure. Perhaps in the end I just need to print a few things and give them away-zero change of money beyond what I pay someone to print and then give them away.
First, I am not a lawyer. But if I were you, and wanted to pursue these T-shirts, I wouldn't let any one's gloom-and-dooming and fears get in the way. Why don't you just write Larry Keating a letter and ask him if it would be okay with him and his lawyers if you were to make up some KU Buckets t-shirts, and sell them to cover costs, and inform him that any surplus that might unintentionally result you would be happy to donate to KUAD, or the Williams Fund, or the Assists Foundation, or whatever he thinks would be appropriate. And if he says no, then respect his wishes and just don't do it. We live in an age when too many don't give persons in authority a chance to act with some generosity of spirit, or to explain why they cannot. You would not be asking to do something similar to what the firm mentioned in the story was trying to do, so there is no real reason to assume what Mr. Keating might decide without asking him. Too many persons go negative and/or scare the heck out of others rather than just give them common sense advice. You are a fan. You love KU Basketball. You like this web site. Its not a commercial web site, so far as I understand it. Its reputedly 42 board rats that post frequently and some others that don't, and a bunch of spam identities; that's all. We are not talking about commercial competition for anyone. We are just some fans using the web to talk hoops. I am not even knowledgeable enough to know if KU would have any implied rights in such t-shirts. So: probably all you ought to do is write Larry Keating, or whomever is the appropriate contact person and ask them; that 's all. In the story, Mr. Keating sounded reasonable to me. He indicated KU gave the firm and its management in the story many chances to stop before any legal actions occurred. The key thing is you won't know until you ask. Mr. Keating might have a very honorable and legally sound reason for saying no, or he might say, sure, go ahead. I don't know. But it can't hurt to ask. At least that is how it seems to this layman.
Rock Chalk!!!
Even if you give them away for free, you are getting the benefit of the exposure. You would have to license them through KU and the process is long expensive and you have to pay royalties on each item you produce.
An acquaintance of mine had a flooring business and wanted to make area rugs with big Jayhawk in the center; it took several months and had to pay several hundred dollars to process the application and he has to submit samples before getting approval, plus he had to pay a percentage of sales. as royalties. Unless you are producing large quantities, the cots is prohibitive.
@jaybate-1.0 said:
just write Larry Keating a letter and ask him if it would be okay with him and his lawyers if you were to make up some KU Buckets t-shirts, and sell them to cover costs, and inform him that any surplus that might unintentionally result you would be happy to donate to KUAD, or the Williams Fund, or the Assists Foundation, or whatever he thinks would be appropriate.
I agree with this approach if we want to pursue this. And just follow whatever comes out of his answer to the request. However, the request needs to include the final design so that the request is specific and well understood.
I'm not sure... but you always need a catchy phrase on the front if you will wear our shirts to a game. Who knows... we might get on the tube!
I'm not sure about printing the Jayhawk. It may be hard to find someone to do it without authorization, especially since our logo is unique, identifiable, and known to be protected.
But if we can I think a short quick run could be done without issues, and not for profit. I wouldn't keep them on this site and show them for sale. Just describe the designs, maybe show some of it, people place orders, then they just mysteriously arrive in the mail.
I think we can also go through the front door on this one and find contact info on the university site and ask for permission.
"Kansas Athletics earns about $2 million a year in licensing revenues, received through the sale of products that contain Jayhawks, KU logos, Kansas team names and other related items, said Jim Marchiony, associate athletics director."
There used to be a tricky way around this.
In my examples above... saying... "University of Kansas, Jayhawk Basketball" would probably be as wrong as printing the Jayhawk.
I thought it used to be okay to say "Kansas Basketball" because what exactly does that mean? It could mean anything... but from reading that article it wouldn't surprise me if the courts see otherwise because it is always tough for the little man to win in court.
I remember that shop down on Mass but never went in. Did any of you go in and know what he printed on his shirts?
The owner of Joe College thought the same thing and yet KU prevailed.
As far as asking permission, this is what "licensing" is all about, you ask (and hopefully receive) permission to use the "art work" legally owned by the university for a fee and royalties.
If you write a letter I am 100% sure that they will direct you to the Licensing Department. Depending on the product, the university (through its licensing department and/or partner agency) will either give you permission (for a fee. i.e. "licensing" ) or deny it all together if it feels it is on poor taste or does not follow the guidelines outlined; alcohol and tobacco fall under this category. There is no way that they will let you use and art work owned by the university at no cost, otherwise, they would have every non-profit organization asking for the same exception; most likely you will have to either get a license or use one of the current licensees to produce the end product. There may be a smaller, local licensee (Kansas Sampler??) that is wiling to produce a small batch (under 100).
This is what the licensing department does. You can write Larry Keating or Bernadette Gray-Little or any big shot at KU and regardless of who you write, I can just about guarantee that you will be directed to the Licensing Department, as I mentioned in my previous post.
My kids have had shirts made up at acme in Lawrence. Pretty sure they could help you figure one out. They would know what would be legal. We just made up some shirts there for the royals, some slogans they been using. They are pretty good!
Finally we have a real and valid option.
I've been extremely busy recently and so I'm sorry I haven't gotten anything done on this. @JayhawkRock78 and you guys have my endorsement however you want to go with this. This will always be a community and I appreciate your efforts in making good things happen. Rock Chalk!
If you want an easy way for people to order, plus have it done "one off" then companies like Cafepress do a pretty good job.
They aren't as cheap as doing a run, but shirts/caps/everything is only made per individual order. Plus... they have a shopping cart system so people can pay by cc.
cafepress.com
I've had them do several things before and the quality is pretty good. I don't believe shirts are screenprinted, but they use a high quality transfer system that isn't like the old way where the designs start peeling off.
@JayHawkFanToo - Yes... you described it right, and I don't think there are any exceptions around paying licensing fees.
But you can avoid fees when you make it vague. I'm not sure you have a problem with a basketball image and the word "Kansas" written over it. At least, that is the way it used to be. Univ of Kansas owns rights on material using their name and mascot, but they don't own our State name, even when combining it with a basketball word or image.
Joe College wasn't in any position to take on the university. And i'm positive they gave him a chance to bow out gracefully without a lawsuit. If he would have ceased his operation of anything relating directly to the university, they would have pulled the suit.
Here are some links to Cafepress that has some Kansas things that I'm talking about:
They probably have a couple of hundred things on there that hint about the university.
Joe College did take on KU, unfortunately for them, they just did not have the law on their side so KU prevailed.
Cafepress might be a KU licensee.
There are a few Naismith images in the public domain, so that shouldn't be an issue. The only problem would be using "KU" ... kind of hard to avoid that since it's in the site url.
Maybe if we just add (No Malice.) to the art, they'll go easy on us?
Or... not mention KU so prominently (other than the website)
Riff on Slayr's last slogan above...
This is a big help.
I am in touch with Acme and am looking into cafepress today as well.
I will find out what we can or can't do but acme tells me they run things by ku regularly.
I am beginning to think I just try a few designs with cafepress t shirts and a simple hat. Everyone could order themselves or even design their own. If they are so inclined.
I will keep ya'll posted.
This might be legal?
I still suggest asking Mr. Keating before doing anything. Give him and KU a chance to be generous and kind, or to explain why they cannot be. And unless the image DanR used of Naismith IS in the public domain, and probably even if it is, because DanR used Naismith's name in the slogan, you should probably ask the representatives of his estate. And Wilt's estate, too, since his name is used in the slogan. It seems the right thing to do.
It sure is a handsome looking t, regardless.
Backfill here.
And here.
And here.
@JayhawkRock78 These were just a couple quick ideas. I'm in the graphic design/advertising biz and have created more T-shirt designs than I care to remember. If we can all come up with a decent idea and legal design, I'd be happy to prepare the print-ready artwork.
I love what you did. You remind me of a marketing gal that worked for me back in the day.
I would cook something up and show it to her-the next day she'd have something that would blow my socks off. I guess my brain is just too linear.
@jaybate-1.0 said:
Larry Keating
No need to bother Larry Keating. As JayhakwFanToo mentioned, just about anything with "KU" on it will need written approval from the trademark licensing director at KU before any local printer will touch it.
Back when the Saints went to the SB the NFL tried to get New Orleans shops to stop selling merchandise with the fleur-de-lis on it or "Who Dat" on it. They backed off with the stipulation that as long as it wasn't marketed as official Saints or NFL merchandise. Just my 2 cents worth. Two hours to "Play Ball." (beer)
Perhaps that will keep us below the radar.
And please don't take this as a shot at you. I love to visit NO, but that is a very corrupt city/state IMO. We were there for my daughter's club bball tourney, and they made the girls show them all their bags and made them throw out their water bottles, making them buy inside the facility for $2 each. I've never seen an athletic organization do anything so sleazy in my life.-there were probably 100 teams of teenage girls in that tourney.
Anyone ever watch the "Nathan for You" Dumb Starbucks episode?? He opened an "art gallery" called Dumb Starbucks in which he sold coffee much like the real Starbucks and was legally able to do so. The logo was pretty much the same as Starbucks but had dumb in front of it. The same with all of the items the store sold. The episode was pretty funny and the show in general wasn't bad at all. Check it out. But to my point...
Under Fair Use you can:
One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the copyright law (title 17, U. S. Code). One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of “fair use.” The doctrine of fair use has developed through a substantial number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.
The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
The nature of the copyrighted work
The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”
Copyright protects the particular way authors have expressed themselves. It does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in a work.
The safest course is to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.
When it is impracticable to obtain permission, you should consider avoiding the use of copyrighted material unless you are confident that the doctrine of fair use would apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine whether a particular use may be considered fair nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.
I can't believe we don't have a lawyer on this site!?!?!
I can't believe we don't have a lawyer on this site!?!?!
LOL. Be careful with what you wish for... :)
I've worked with Cafepress before and they void out any obvious copyrighted material unless you have approval to show them.
@DanR - RIght on! I'd buy those! Just make it a darker blue! If those images are in the public domain then there will be no issues with those designs! Great job!
"If we can all come up with a decent idea and legal design, I'd be happy to prepare the print-ready artwork."
I'm on board with all of your designs... but especially love the one about Naismith and Wilt! Maybe you could tweak it to make "kubuckets.com" a bit larger because we should promote this site!
It is no problem to say kubuckets.com on our shirts.... that does not infringe on university rights, plus... kubuckets.com has the right to promote their name. If they didn't have that right, they would already be potentially breaking copyright law by having a website, especially if there is any related commercial aspects.
I did go into joe college. They had 50+ different designs most were clearly copyright infringement.
Some of the more memorable: muck fizzou, beat KSU, Missouri 5million people 8 last names, I bleed Crimson and blue therefore I crap purple.
On top of the note to Acme & cafepress I sent an email to Keating who replied he sent it on to the proper contact.
As for designs by DanR and other suggestions I think we can go with all of them until we hear from the powers that be and then let users choose style and sizes.
RCJH
@approxinfinity said:
I've been extremely busy recently and so I'm sorry I haven't gotten anything done on this. @JayhawkRock78 and you guys have my endorsement however you want to go with this. This will always be a community and I appreciate your efforts in making good things happen. Rock Chalk!
With all you've done with this site you should never apologize to anyone here for anything. RCJH
Watch out! Looked what happened.
@Crimsonorblue22 Big Government went on a panty raid...
@Crimsonorblue22 Too bad they don't show as much concern with protecting our southern border.
Suggested slogans for the T-Shirt
KUBuckets Old Farts Talking Hoops
KUBuckets Talking KU before we kick the bucket
KUBuckets Guardians of the Jayhawk Legend
KUBuckets Phog Allen Ghostwrites Here
KUBuckets We don't often blog, but when we do, it's KUBuckets
Or KUBuckets, when we write, Bill Self Listens because we're the most interesting men on the face of the earth.
In the Beginning God created the heavens and KUBuckets.
KUBuckets John Wooden Read Here
KUBuckets Tom Keegan wishes he was us
KUBuckets @Jesse-Newell Gets His Ideas From Us
KUBuckets If Guy Lewis read us there'd been no Jim Valvano running around the court looking for someone to hug.
KUBuckets James Naismith Invented Basketball We Perfected It
KUBuckets Thankful every day we're not the major school just to the east and just to the west.
KUBuckets The epicenter of the hoops world
KUBuckets We Wish There Was a KUGridiron
KUBuckets Thankful we're not UKBuckets
@wissoxfan83 DUDE! You're on your game today - those are awesome!
Yo! I know I'm a lil late to the party, but I'm totally down for a t-shirt. In fact I want two!
Here is the guy we need to obtain written permission from:
Paul Vander Tuig, Trademark Licensing Director
The University of Kansas
Office of Trademark Licensing
1601 Irving Hill Road
Burge Union, Room 306
Lawrence, KS 66045-7557
Phone: (785) 864-4650
FAX: (785) 864-3877
e-mail: pvt@ku.edu
Here's the list of verbiage that is trademarked:
On the KU Athletics page they have a FAQ page and one of the questions is about royalties and what happens to the money raised from the royalties. Proceeds generated by the trademark licensing program are returned to KU students through academic or athletic scholarships and student programs administered by the KU Endowment Association. All net royalties are deposited into these funds annually.
This is some more info on my Fair Use stance.
Some courts have recognized a somewhat different, but closely-related, fair-use defense, called nominative use. Nominative use occurs when use of a term is necessary for purposes of identifying another producer's product, not the user's own product. For example, the newspaper USA Today ran a telephone poll, asking its readers to vote for their favorite member of the music group New Kids on the Block. The New Kids on the Block sued USA Today for trademark infringement. The court held that the use of the trademark "New Kids on the Block" was a privileged nominative use because: (1) the group was not readily identifiable without using the mark; (2) USA Today used only so much of the mark as reasonably necessary to identify it; and (3) there was no suggestion of endorsement or sponsorship by the group. The basic idea is that use of a trademark is sometimes necessary to identify and talk about another party's products and services. When the above conditions are met, such a use will be privileged. New Kids on the Block v. News America Publishing, Inc., 971 F.2d 302 (9th Cir. 1992). Read Here for more... ↗
@wissoxfan83
PHOF
@Kip_McSmithers said:
Here is the guy we need to obtain written permission from:
Paul Vander Tuig, Trademark Licensing Director
The University of Kansas
Office of Trademark Licensing
1601 Irving Hill Road
Burge Union, Room 306
Lawrence, KS 66045-7557
Phone: (785) 864-4650
FAX: (785) 864-3877
e-mail: pvt@ku.edu
Here's the list of verbiage that is trademarked:
- The University of Kansas ®
(Use "THE" when possible)- KU ®
- Kansas Jayhawks ®
- Jayhawks ®
- The Crimson and the Blue™
- Kansas ®
- Beak 'Em Hawks
- Rock Chalk Jayhawk®
- Allen Fieldhouse ®
- Kivisto Field ®
On the KU Athletics page they have a FAQ page and one of the questions is about royalties and what happens to the money raised from the royalties. Proceeds generated by the trademark licensing program are returned to KU students through academic or athletic scholarships and student programs administered by the KU Endowment Association. All net royalties are deposited into these funds annually.
This is some more info on my Fair Use stance.
Some courts have recognized a somewhat different, but closely-related, fair-use defense, called nominative use. Nominative use occurs when use of a term is necessary for purposes of identifying another producer's product, not the user's own product. For example, the newspaper USA Today ran a telephone poll, asking its readers to vote for their favorite member of the music group New Kids on the Block. The New Kids on the Block sued USA Today for trademark infringement. The court held that the use of the trademark "New Kids on the Block" was a privileged nominative use because: (1) the group was not readily identifiable without using the mark; (2) USA Today used only so much of the mark as reasonably necessary to identify it; and (3) there was no suggestion of endorsement or sponsorship by the group. The basic idea is that use of a trademark is sometimes necessary to identify and talk about another party's products and services. When the above conditions are met, such a use will be privileged. New Kids on the Block v. News America Publishing, Inc., 971 F.2d 302 (9th Cir. 1992). Read Here for more... ↗
Thanks. I have a response from acme-see cut and paste below.
Below is my answer from Acme in Lawrence.
Hi there,
Yes, this is something we could potentially print, but only because we have a licensing agreement with the university. As such, anything with KU or Jayhawk or reference to that, has to be approved by KU. How it all works is we would put the design together (either in store or via email) and then you pay a $5.00 approval fee. That fee goes to the university for using their logos and we submit it to the approval board. Once they give us the okay, then we can go ahead with the order. Since any of your ideas would need approval I think all of them would work equally as well, so it's really just up to you which direction you'd like to go with the shirt. Just let us know which one you'd like us to put a design together for and we'll get a rough draft started for you!
Now as far as the printing goes, we could make a design and just have it on file and people can call in or email and order one and pay for them individually. If you want to get them at a cheaper price though, I would suggest having a bulk order printed up that people could purchase from you or the website. Any order over 24 shirts, we can have screenprinted by our friends here in town and save you a lot of money. So for example, an individual shirt in our store, with a one sided single color print is $18.95 before tax. The same shirt with a one color print on one side screenprinted would just be $8.71 before tax. So if that would be a possibility I would recommend going with one big order. But again, that's totally up to you and what would work best for you!
Please let us know if you have any questions and if you'd like us to put a design together!
end of email.
So fellow Bucketeers,
Here is how I see it. Every design comes with a $5 approval fee. I have the feeling if we were to all pick the same one, we might not even get to the price break of 24 each that would lower the price from $18.95 to $8.71.
I could start the ball rolling if we were to vote on one, but I am thinking maybe we all want to choose our own shirt, and individually deal with acme for $5 + $18.95. There are so many good choices already I think it would be cool if different messages/slogans about KU Buckets are out there for the world to see.
What say you?
@JayhawkRock78 just wanted to add- we ordered from there last week and got the nicer shirts-not the 100 percent cotton. Not where I can look it up, but just wanted you to know there's a choice.
@Crimsonorblue22
Good point-individuals would have lots of flexibility with types of shirts, colors, etc.
But as I said, if ya'll want to vote on one to get a standard rolling, I will get it going.
Being a layman, I cannot explain why, but I just don't have a positive feeling about getting into the shirt activity in terms of possible fallout for the site's owners without first getting permission from KU, and the estates of anyone else's name, or image, put on the t-shirt. And even with the permissions, it seems some sound legal counsel would be prudent. My hunch is that @approxinfinity needs to weigh in on this, because this is his site and the actions that are being discussed are being discussed on his site and apparently aim to use the name of his site on the t-shirts.
I just don't want to see any harm come to @approxinfinity and @bskeet, or the community. No one probably gives a hoot about our small online community, but I sometimes wonder about attorneys involved in seeking to set precedents for trademarks in the internet era and on the payroll of high powered players in the marketing game picking on tiny online communities like ours precisely because such communities are not funded to defend themselves, and because that makes them an easy mark for setting precedents with. Just a thought from a concerned layman.
(note: @JayhawkRock78, this is the post I moved from the quotes thread. Not sure how I goofed and got it on there in the first place. I hope it works out that it is ok to do the shirts, because they would be fun. )
This is pretty much what I indicated the process would be like based on precedent. Since Acme already has a licensing agreement in place (this is the harder and more expensive part of the process), then I cannot see why there would be any concern about legal backlash. The shirts would be printed by a "licensed" business and the design approved by KU before hand. If there are any legal repercussions, it would be on Acme and not on this site or its owner; this is the reason why I suggested using a provide with an existing licensing agreement in place.
Looks like the leg work has been done. Great job!!! :)
Should have posted this request I sent to acme BEFORE I gave ya'll the answer. Here it is.
There is a group of KU fans that have a website called kubuckets.com
We were thinking of having T-shirts made up. We don’t know about licensing issues.
This is a non profit bunch of fans just having fun. We would not mark anything up to make money. In fact I may just order a few and pay for them out of my own pocket.
If we just use, kubuckets.com, do we need to go to KU for approval?
If we include the logo in the upper right hand of the web page, I suspect we need the approval. How is that done?
(I cant figure out the cut and paste, but I included the website logo here as an example.)
kubuckets.com
Another suggestion includes more verbiage
Kansas University Jayhawks
Playing Naismith ball since 1898
KUBuckets.com
Costs?
Is it easier to just have individuals order directly from you as some would need them shipped?
@JayhawkRock78 Thanks for checking with Acme. I'm in Lawrence, so I can work with them if we go forward with anything. I have a couple of other design ideas, but I think we ought to wait until we hear from the powers that be before I throw anything else out here.
@jaybate-1.0 Definitely need approxinfinity's approval. We could get a "Naismith" permission too if you can find a contact person. (I can't find much of an established foundation online, but someone got $4.3 million a while back for the rules!) They don't own the rights to the photograph, so it's more of an issue of using his likeness.
"With all you've done with this site you should never apologize to anyone here for anything. RCJH"
Amen on that!
What does a small possible copyright infringement have to do with homeland security?
Sounds like some bozos with fake IDs wanted some free Xmas gifts for their girlfriends.
The "KC' image does look like the Royals logo.
I don't see a potential infringement on anything @DanR has made as long as the image of Naismith is public domain.
"KUBUCKETS.COM" should not be an infringement. If it is, then we'll have to move this website to a new name.
The university does not own the rights to kubuckets.
That would be like saying the university owns all words starting with ku.... like kudos!
Imagine this battle:
KU KLUX KLAN
@drgnslayr said:
Imagine this battle:
KU KLUX KLAN
Yikes. I have a great idea for an extra long Tshirt and matching hat if anyone wants to get in some serious legal trouble.
This is from wikisource so take it with what that's worth....
-Some or all works by this author are in the public domain in the United States because they were published before January 1, 1923.
The author died in 1939, so works by this author are also in the public domain in countries and areas where the copyright term is the author's life plus 70 years or less. Works by this author may also be in the public domain in countries and areas with longer native copyright terms that apply the rule of the shorter term to foreign works.
I know there is the magical line of pre-1923 copyright. I wasn't sure if 1912 'Hawk would fall under that or not??
!1912 'Hawk ↗
@Kip_McSmithers There's really no magical line. Plus, copyrights and trademarks are different beasts. (1912 Jay is a registered trademark, so regardless of whether the original copyright ownership for the artwork expired, KU owns the mark as long as they continue to renew and protect it.)
@JayhawkRock78 I think that if we decided on one design then there would be a demand for at least 24 shirts. So why not get the price break.
Maybe we could do one design now and then work to agree on another every 3 to 6 months, or a new design every year. Maybe do some commemorative shirts for special occasions like big 12 play, championships, final fours, national championships, etc.. I don't know, maybe to much.
Some other ideas: kubuckets.com on the front and on the back;
Some posts from users that were deemed PHOF.
a list of abbreviation definitions used on kubuckets.com. (so new users wouldn't be lost when they check out the site)
maybe simply put "Back fill here" on the back. :)
Or my favorite (which is a combination of inspiration from JB and Abe Lincoln, "with knowledge and malice towards none". That is what kind of sets us apart from other basketball sites, the knowledge and malice towards none that is found on this site. Just a thought!
@jayhawkbychoice definite no in 1-4, jmo
@Crimsonorblue22 Man! Really? Ok, 1 and 2 are a little sketchy, throwing props to some of our uniqueness here on the site. Yeah 3 was just a joke. But I thought 4 was pretty darn good. :)
@jayhawkbychoice I won't get it! Go ahead!
Some good ideas JBC
It seems we have a comfort level with DanR to take his ideas and include a few others and propose some designs. Then we can a vote on it. Maybe it's one print to start with which I would guarantee 24 prints from acme so we hit the price point and let folks order individually.
We could also pick the top 2 or 3 and go from there.
DanR, can you present our ideas? Then the rest of us can vote on them and add options to consider. From what I've already seen we have a bunch of really good ideas to choose from.
No, no. I respect your opinion. I would be proud to wear the same uniform as you or any others on this site. Plus I've never been known for to many good ideas. :)
Maybe?
"KU Buckets, this is my facebook" (and no stupid questions to answer)
@jayhawkbychoice I don't like the cutsie stuff. Simple.
@Crimsonorblue22 and everyone else,
As far as t-shirts, I don't care. Whatever you guys like or whatever gets the most votes, I'll go with.
But there was nothing "cutsie" in this country on March 4, 1865, when the words "With malice toward none,..." were first coined. This is a great site. A place where we can come to publicly, freely express opinions and ideas without all the malice and negativity that is found on most other sites. That is what ultimately brought all of us here. And that, along with the vast knowledge here, is what will ultimately bring others to this site. (if that's a real goal) But I warn, the day we don't heed to the historic virtuousness found in the Second Inaugural Address by Lincoln is the day this site will start to resemble what the old site is now.
@crimsonorblue22, I don't think your comment was meant in this way, so I'm sorry. But, I couldn't let the word "cutsie" be the final word when I was making reference to such a historically significant phrase that changed the country and resonated so well it may have, perhaps, been the reason Lincoln was killed.
@jayhawkbychoice whoa!!! Not anything what I meant! Don't stone me please! Jk
@Crimsonorblue22 No worries.
Those of us (ME) in glass houses should never cast stones.
Ok, I'm off my soap box, time to have fun now!
Glad that got sorted out gents. JHBC- every thing I think I know about you and others here is "NO MALICE" all the way around. You bring some deep thinking into this and it went clear over my head history wise so perhaps it got by others.
So let me say this about that-lets start with the KU bBall Stuff, and there is a lot of knowledge-better yet WISDOM on this board that could benefit a LOT of people outside of our bBall world.
Maybe we start another site to help point youngsters in the right direction.
@jayhawkbychoice did you read what is meant w/back fill?
@Crimsonorblue22 and @JayhawkRock78
CC: @JayHawkFanToo
BCC: anyone else that has trouble grasping "backfill" as used by @jaybate 1.0
Backfill. Backfill. Backfill. Backfill. Its okay to write and say the word, at least as I use it. I am unfamiliar with other usages than what I define below, and I am frankly wary of going to unfamiliar links unrelated to sports on this site for a variety of reasons. But one reason is this: Granny jaybate 1.0 used to say, "Lil' jaybate 1.0, remember, try to protect your senses from folks trying cunningly to expose you to the pornographic, because it dulls your senses and can be used to smear you." Well, I'm not absolutely sure she said exactly that, for its been a long time ago, now, but it was something to that effect. :-)
Now, here is the definition (or should I say etiology? I haven't looked up etiology in awhile), as I use it. Enjoy.
from jaybate's idiosyncratic basketball posting dictionary:
backfill: noun, verb, personally observed origin--surveyors in desert southwest, early 4th quarter of 20th Century
Definition: 1.) n, on a construction site, after a utility infrastructure trench is dug, and water/sewer pipes, or power line conduits are laid down in the trench, the trench is then filled back in with dirt, i.e., backfill.
2.) v. the act of covering up the utility infrastructure in the trench with dirt.
I have taken this meaning of the word backfill and applied it with poetic license to basketball posting.
Metaphorically speaking, then, in posting, jaybate 1.0's comments are hopefully like the digging of a utility infrastructure trench and laying of utility infrastructure that others might tap into were such comments to offer any actual utility (and that is oft doubted by some), while, say, some other poster might repeatedly (obsessively?) follow immediately behind with posts that kind of cover them with metaphorical dirt. :-)
Now, I cannot say for sure if "backfill" is still in use on construction sites, or even how widespread the usage was, for it has been awhile since I was on a construction site, but that is how I have used and intended its usage here.
There. All the fear and mystery and taboo (and potential for smear) are gone.
Now, repeat after me: backfill, backfill, backfill. :-)
That's what I thought back fill meant til you wrote that other nasty definition! I couldn't even repeat it here. I started to, but erased it. As far as other sites, is it food, gardening, Royals, or pictures you don't like?
Yikes.... guys...
Let's keep laser-focused on these shirts and possible other products, like ball caps. I think many of us are thrilled with @DanR artwork.
I would be happy to build this into a mini shop on Cafepress if we finalize artwork with @DanR .
Cafepress has millions (and I do mean millions) of shopowners and their artwork online and they are the first ones hit with a cease and desist on anything that potentially violates infringement. It is safe for us to do this, and even at the miniscule chance someone at Kansas has an issue with it, the most that will happen is Cafepress will take our shop down. I'm not worried about it, and I would be the one dealing with it and Cafepress.
Mind you, Cafepress approves all artwork prior to sale and they red-flag potential violators. If they think there might be an issue, they will red-flag and require more information before letting it go up for sale.
Our situation is in no way like Joe College.
With Cafepress, we can have several different garments.... short-sleeve Ts... long-sleeve Ts.... sweatshirts... ballcaps.... polos... mugs.... even pet clothing!
I'd be happy to donate my time and I'd run the shop at cost, so there would be no profit involved.
I own a bunch of their products and the quality is good!
Anyways.... that is my 2 cents.
I will go along with both solutions and try to help or butt out if I'm in the way. I suggest those active in this effort read the email I just got back from KU....in a nutshell we can move forward if we cover our bases and watch out for a few things.
From KU:
Hi John,
Larry Keating forwarded your e-mail to me.
I'm not familiar with your group, but I'm sure we can find a middle ground on what you want to do.
Based on what you've described, here's probably where I'd lean:
That being said, the honest truth is that the URL "kubuckets.com" may not ultimately be an issue, unless it becomes a site for commercial activity or the site makes an attempt to appear like it is somehow endorsed or sponsored by KU or Kansas Athletics. We have folks take our content and logos all the time and post it as their own, which confuses the public into thinking we are associated to it. At that point, as you might imagine, we have issues.
I'm certainly open to discussing this and the tee shirts further. I'm slightly concerned that you seeking "more exposure" for the web URL more visible by "advertising" on tees you would wear, but I may be over thinking it. ACME is a licensed vendor and they would send me the artwork for review.
Something like a peach basket and "Bucket Brigade" on a tee is not an issue though. I just have to be careful about promoting an outside web site with our logos.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have; I'm happy to visit in person about this.
Thanks for reaching out to us.
Paul
--
Paul Vander Tuig
Trademark Licensing Director
Kansas Athletics, 1412 Wagnon
1651 Naismith Drive
Lawrence, KS 66045
(785) 864-4650
pvt@ku.edu
This is what I got from the e-mail:
Acme is the cleanest/easiest way to go since it is a licensed vendor that would clear up the shirt content with the power that be prior to printing.
The "KU" in kubuckets.com is problematic. It might not be an issue now but it could be in the future if the site becomes bigger, and particularly if the site starts selling ads.
Still not hearing @approxinfinity weighing in on this issue.
Nor @bskeet.
Interesting read.
I just visited the government trademark site. You can go search out trademarks.
uspto.gov
Search under "Naismith" found exactly 2 live marks:
Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall Of Fame - the registrant is Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, Inc. CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS 1000 West Columbus Avenue Springfield MASSACHUSETTS 01105
Naismith Awards - the registrant is ATLANTA TIP OFF CLUB, INC. CORPORATION GEORGIA 235 Andrew Young International Blvd. Atlanta GEORGIA 30303
The University of Kansas has absolutely NO CLAIM to anything regarding the term "Naismith" and they are putting themselves at risk of a legal issue if they claim to (if they claim ownership that infringes on other entities' rights).
Here is a "Naismith" product for sale... and Homeland Security won't be beating down this guy's door anytime soon:
I don't believe we have an issue with KU in our URL, especially if we don't use this website for commercial purposes.
It would be a good idea if this site had a legal section where it clearly stated that this website has absolutely no affiliation with the University of Kansas.
This website has honorable intent. We aren't pushing pornography or anything offensive, and we do not have the intent to defame the university in any way.
@JayhawkRock78 said:
On top of the note to Acme & cafepress I sent an email to Keating who replied he sent it on to the proper contact.
As for designs by DanR and other suggestions I think we can go with all of them until we hear from the powers that be and then let users choose style and sizes.
RCJH
@approxinfinity said:
I've been extremely busy recently and so I'm sorry I haven't gotten anything done on this. @JayhawkRock78 and you guys have my endorsement however you want to go with this. This will always be a community and I appreciate your efforts in making good things happen. Rock Chalk!
With all you've done with this site you should never apologize to anyone here for anything. RCJH
Just above you will see a comment from approxfinity.
I don't remember if bskeet weighed in.
I like the designs by @DanR :-)
I think if someone gets the shirts created (or any other merchandise) and wants to provide a link to the site where it can be purchased, it's easy and legal to post a link to that site. You can add a link to any post, any thread on the site at any time.
I haven't talked to @approxinfinity about going much further with this. But a couple of things that could be done:
1) to make it easy, we could create a 'store' or 'marketplace' section where links to shirts and more were available. The selected materials could be curated by members of the site.. So I could post a list of things that I think are great (including legit KU attire, the official video of KU's championship, etc.) all linked to a site where the item can be purchased.
2) if KUbuckets was an affiliate of the site, a small proceed from the purchase would go to KUbuckets. Here's how that works. I have an affiliate account with Amazon, skeetcom. There's a syntax to the URL that points to the product and gives me credit: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001675YTI/skeetcom ↗
So I could list this item from Amazon: Rock Chalk Championship: The Kansas Jayhawks' 2008 Run To The NCAA National Championship
If anyone here clicks on that link, you'll go to Amazon and see that it's the DVD of KU's championship. If you choose to buy it from that page, Amazon will credit me a couple of cents on the purchase. Eventually, when enough purchases are made, the pennies add up, hit a threshold that triggers Amazon to send me a check... I think the trigger is like $15. It's not a lot of money, and it takes some volume of purchases to get there, but this would be a way to provide patronage to KUBuckets.
One other comment.. I'm pretty sure that using the domain name: kubuckets.com is perfectly legal. I suspect it gets dicy on the 'no malice' design where the visual emphasis is on KU (very big) and bucket.com is small and separated from the KU.
If the picture of Naismith is public domain, then the "bucket bridgade' and final t-shirt design (below) seems safe to me.
!
↗
P.S. I like this one best
P.P.S. I am not a lawyer
So it seems the merchandise and design expertise lay with Dragon (cafepress) and DanR (acme) with both sites covered where liscensing is concerned. bskeet has already been down this road and has a way to move forward as he states above. I will bow out as I don't want to add an extra step to the process but remain at the ready with a credit card.
I love T Shirts. Especially KU T shirts. I have at least a dozen of them. I'd get another. What do they look like?
@jaybate-1.0 Dude, I follow Ms Wilde on twitter. That idea is kind of funny. I hope you dont mind if I tweet that to her! LOL
@JayhawkRock78 T-Shirts!
I insist. In fact, tell the lovely Ms. Wilde that I envision her posing with a wink and a smile over her shoulder in the full body basketball net in one of those sideways poses that reveal everything and nothing. She is in full focus at center court on the Jayhawk standing in the midst of the blurs of ten fast breaking KU players. And take or share credit for the idea. Also, tell her I would have wanted Helmut Newton to do the photo, but like Mistah Kurtz, he dead. So: I will defer to her obviously superb artistic instincts. Also, I am one fan that is getting a huge kick out of where her career is going. Work with every great director she can, then become one and steal from all of them. Also, I saw Jason's "We're the Millers" and finally get what he is doing. I was a little slow on the uptake, but that happens when the years pile on. Rock Chalk!!!
I like your vision... and I think we'll create a more-popular vision than Kentucky's celebrity photo shoot:
Source: Ashley Judd Bails on Kentucky Senate Race ↗
I never realized she had mule teeth! Heard her next film is titled: "When The Crows Fly South (Along With Everything Else)!"
Ha... (No Malice, Just A Friday Afternoon Giggle)
@drgnslayr And that's why feminists are feminists.
Don't want to fly under false colors, guys. Don't want to judge or criticize either. But I am pro feminist or whatever those that wish to advance women's rights wish to be called. I don't mind if some women don't want to act in a way that seduces me. I figure they have their reasons. I understood it when African Americans decided to change their appearance in ways that seemed not designed to appeal to me. They had their reasons. If people treat each other squarely and fairly, I cut them all the slack they need on appearance for whatever they have been going through. Rock Chalk!
@jaybate-1.0 I'm with skeet; I like the "Naismith invented it, Wilt perfected it, we talk about it" shirt, and I'm not too worried anyone will come after us.
I also appreciate your last post. She's 46. That's what pretty 46 year olds look like.
@approxinfinity mmmmmmmm. Well..... Uh....... I don't know - my eyes aren't perfect any more, I guess. But - that particular picture ain't pretty to me, no matter what age she is.
@nuleafjhawk :) alright. That's what a bad picture of a pretty 46 year old looks like. What a crappy photographer!
I'm pro human being, which means I support everyone equally, including feminists. I didn't mean for my Friday antics to be taken as negative towards feminists, or Ashley Judd. I was just poking fun and open myself up to being poked equally or harder than I did to her. I think we've all become a bit too sensitive to everything these days. We'll get to the point where we are all completely isolated from human contact because we don't want to offend or be offended.
At my age, if I had the same cleavage Ashley has, it would have flown even further south! There... I've insulted myself even more. I'm sure it will attack someone's sensibilities because I've insulted myself.
Okay... how far can I shove my foot in my mouth? Perhaps enough to where I create a black hole in the universe!
Dang it... this thread will be tied to me forever. I guess I'll never become President of the USA, or even of my local 4-H club! My life is doomed now that I've insulted someone online. Please... no one bother. I'm spending the rest of my weekend throwing myself under a bus!
------u-n-d-e-r-----t-h-e-----b-u-s-----------------
Wow... it isn't too bad down here. I recognize a lot of people down here. Politicians... Mel Gibson... "hey, man, can I have your autograph?!"
I'm serious here... No malice intended and hope I didn't offend anyone or everyone!
@drgnslayr I'm sorry - I think the whole world is too sensitive and politically correct. It's a funny picture - it deserved a funny comment. Thank you. While I believe none of us on here would make fun of her (or hopefully anyone else) to her face, if we can't have a little fun with a picture like that, we may as well shut down the internet.
Nice picture of Ashley Judd .. only way it would look better is if her shirt was off.
Not a lot of feminists you can say that about ...
I am not sure about that. Looks like her upper lady parts have taken a vacation several inches south of where they should Ideally be. Also, if she is true feminist we would an eyeful of "hippie pits"...definitely would not want to see that.
"Here's the list of verbiage that is trademarked:
The University of Kansas ® (Use "THE" when possible)
KU ®
Kansas Jayhawks ®
Jayhawks ®
The Crimson and the Blue™
Kansas ®
Beak 'Em Hawks
Rock Chalk Jayhawk®
Allen Fieldhouse ®
Kivisto Field ®
"
Did Paul send you this list?
I've looked up all of these terms on the government trademark site. Some are trademarked, while others are not.
I got a kick out of the following expired trademark:
And no.... it wasn't a registration from John Riggins back in his college days. It was from a company called "Knuckle Up." The University of Kansas does not make a claim for KU. In the goods area of computers an Israeli corporation owns "KU." A Chicago corporation owns "KU" in the area of consulting services in the fields of retail meat marketing and merchandising. Yes... meat! They appear to be into meat carving knives.
Kansas is not trademarked. It really wouldn't do much good to trademark something so general that you could never defend it. For example.... "Kansas State University" would then be in violation for using the word "Kansas". "Kansas Jayhawks" is not trademarked (and doesn't need to be) because "Jayhawks" is trademarked.
There is no trademark under "beak'em Hawks" either. I kind of expected one to be there, but it isn't. Most likely, it is impossible for anyone to claim ownership unless they can prove first use. "The crimson and the blue" is not trademarked. It is specific enough but no one has registered it,
"The University of Kansas" is not trademarked. Funny... because "The University of Western Kansas" is. SICILLUM UNIVERSITATIS KANSIENSIS is trademarked. That is the official seal of The University of Kansas.
I wonder if they have made much money off "Kivisto Field" yet? :-)
I think I would rather have the "Knuckle Up" trademark.
Along the line of Alcohol and Tobacco,
On the front,
"Coming to the ball game without KUbuckets is like drinking at the bar without beer."
On the back,
"Come On You Kubucketeers
kubuckets.com"
COYG
@drgnslayr : I pulled that information from the University of Kansas Athletics - KU Trademark and Licensing - FAQ ↗ page. Here's the actual page that I linked. Appendix B ↗ I just copied and pasted the verbiage part.
I found the trademark for Kansas here: Trademark Electronic Search - Kansas ↗. I think using Kansas on items in the colors listed in Appendix B without consent from KU would get any seller in trouble. Same goes for KU. Here's the trademark for Trademark Electronic Search - KU ↗.
That's interesting. I knew you didn't pull that out of a hat.
The word "Kansas" can not be protected as a word. A "Kansas" design can be protect. So that means as long as your design isn't confused with the patent holder of the design, you are okay. I'm pretty sure almost every person living in Kansas, and definitely every business owner, is in violation of using the word "Kansas"... including, to make revenue. That's like taking out a patent on "United States of America."
However, having said that... if you make a design that uses the word "Kansas" and it can easily be confused with licensed Kansas merchandise, they can come after you.
Here is an example of something out there for sale that says "Kansas". It is even in our colors. This piece approaches the line of legality because it can be confused, but it is still legal. if it said "Kansas Basketball" in our colors... I'm not sure that would fly, because it starts to resemble officially licensed university designs.
!kansasvintage_sticker.jpg ↗
SOURCE: Cafepress ↗
I don't see how a shirt that says "kubuckets.com" on it can in any way be confused with officially licensed merchandise. It would be a tough argument to say that these shirts would dilute the shirt market for the university. If we have the right to own and use the domain name "www.kubuckets.com" then we have the right to promote the domain, especially for non-commercial use.
@drgnslayr : I agree with you on the use of KUBuckets.com not being in violation as a webpage. Especially when you compare ours to other schools fan made webpages. If it were a problem UT and UK fans would be in trouble.
Now if it were me I'd steer clear of using the same fonts as KU does on shirts. Although I like the Naismith and Wilt shirt I think it could cause problems with confusion for lawyers/judges between us and KU. And whoever mentioned that we should have a legal page that states we are not in any way affiliated, endorsed, or whatever... with the University, KU Athletics Inc, Williams Fund, ect. has a good idea.
I agree... everything we can do to differentiate our look from KU licensed gear is a move in the right direction... and we really don't need to be similar because our buyers will buy it because of what we do on this website. I'm sure we can stay clear from the university and their legal hawks.
I totally understand their point of view, and as a generality they try to steer people far, far away from anything even remotely resembling a connection to the university, because when they start formalizing communications of allowance the fences continue to get closer and closer to what they are protecting... and it is more than revenue dollars. It is also their reputation.
@jaybate-1.0 Have read this entire schpiel & have to agree with you. Unless financial support is needed to maintain this website, why take any chance of negative liability in the arena of copyright infringement? Even then just soliciting our members would be a much more sensible approach to maintain our sovereignty. If we really have thousands of legitimate users then getting enough funding to maintain a simple chat room should not be a problem. Personally I have to think that much more than 500 total users are bogus. To retain anonymity on the site of memberships. @approxinfinity & @bskeet could simply use a PO box & cover that expense with contributors proceeds via paper checks. They really do still work! JMO but there's potentially way too much hassel involved in the process over T shirts. Now a nice polo I might wear, but still I cannot even begin to forsee the possible legal hazards involved with this venture & will only comment further by saying "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" Again, JMHO
Using the KU trademarked logos. including the Jayhawk, is not a problem , as long as you get a license, get your design approved and pay royalties. Using a licensed vendor transfers the onus to the vendor.
Now, where KU has a problem is when you use a logo or wording that would imply a link to or an endorsement by KU without licensing. The name kubuckets.com could be problematic since the university could argue that we are using the name to create a link to KU basketball, which we sorta, kinda do; after all, most of what we do here is talk KU basketball, right?
When we say that kubuckets.com would not benefit from the t-shits is partially correct. While it would not derive a financial benefit, the exposure it gets from people wearing a t-shirt with the site name on it does constitute a benefit. If the site starts selling merchandise of any kind that even remotely or indirectly links KU, then we will have their attorneys involved.
The Trademark Office has pretty much stated that, outside of the obvious infringements, they will grant most trademarks and let the Courts decide the validity. A trademark (or patent) is basically not worth the paper is written on until a Court officially upholds its validity. It is a shitty way of doing business but that is your Federal Government at work.
I have a second business where we have a number of generic term used in the description of the work we do. Say, it would be the equivalent of using the words "Backyard Barbeque" by grill manufacturers. Now, what happens if one company gets a trademark for these terms, which is the equivalent of say, Weber, getting a trademark for the terms"Backyard Barbeque" and start sending cease and desist letters to anyone that makes grills and uses those words without paying royalties to them. Of course, it has zero chance of standing in court, but in the process they are bullying less informed competitors. These are the type of problems caused by the Trademark Office by their lack of due diligence. The trademark/Copyright/Patent business is very simple and at the same time very complicated and littered with legal proceedings; It is obvious that it was created by lawyers which seem to be the main beneficiaries.
My take would be that if some members want, as a group and as part of the forum, have t-shirts/polo shirts with the kubuckets.com name on it, do it the right way thought a licensed vendor. Otherwise, just go individually to your t-shirt supplier at the local mall and have one or two custom t-shirts made with most anything you want and leave the web site/forum out of it.
@JayHawkFanToo - When we say that kubuckets.com would not benefit from the t- is partially correct. Darn auto-correct! I think going with a vendor and even having KU's blessing is a wise move. Do you think doing something like this UT fan site is a good idea? Horn Sports ↗ Looking at this UT fan site they have this "HornSports.com is an independent source of news and information and is not affiliated with or endorsed by any school, team, or league" posted. I didn't contact them to see if they were required by UT to do it or just did it to "CYA". Also I noticed a lot of boards have Terms of Service and Rules** pages. Good idea? Bad idea??
Here's an example of one I found:
The providers ("we", "us", "our".) of the service provided by this web site ("Service".) are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts ("Content".). Content submitted express the views of their author only. You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential. We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation.
I agree with everything you said... except I'm not sure about taking "kubuckets.com" through a licensed vendor. I've worked in product development, and sometimes we've looked at going through licensing and it was not only expensive, but there were minimums. Needless to say, we didn't do it.
In our case, I would use Cafepress. They have legal people and everything they do has to be qualified, or it gets pulled. Even if you just want to order a Jayhawk tshirt for yourself.... if you put up a Jayhawk logo on any of their products, they will pull it.
If we run into any issues from this using Cafepress, the most that will happen is the images will become disallowed from either a cease and desist, or if Cafepress legal department believes there may be an infringement so they require us to provide proof of ownership.
Our situation is nothing like Joe College.... who printed many many designs that clearly infringing... he profited from the sale... and he disregarded their cease and desist orders. It really is hard to side with a business like that because he showed no willingness to comply with laws, even after repeated efforts were made (more on his behalf than the university's) and he still refused to cooperate. That business would be alive and prospering today if he would have followed the rules, and he could have either bought into licensed goods, or he could have avoided infringing on their rights and still had a good business.
Any thing you do to protect yourself and CYA is always a good idea, even when in practice it might not hold any legal weight; at least it shows a good faith effort to keep it above board.
I get lots of t-shits and polo shirts from suppliers and clients and I will wear them only around the house or give away the nicer ones. The only ones I or my employees wear while on business are the company polo or shirt with the embroidered company logo. So, a kubuckets.com t-shirt is not something I would personally be interested since it is not something I would wear where it would provide exposure to the site. This is just a personal practice of mine and in no way reflects the excellence of the site which I enjoy immensely or the opinion of other forum members. I understand that other members feel diffidently and hence I have provide information based on my own experience on the subject.
The more I look at it... the more I want a "knuckle up" shirt, too!
Might be a good theme for this team.