“I want to take the least amount of risk as possible. It’s my dream to go to the NBA and I want to do whatever it takes to get there,”

Is this someone we want at KU? I know we are a long shot anyway but this seals the deal for me. I know the NBA dream is something every recruit will have, but the personality of taking the least amount of risk can very easily fall into not playing hard to avoid injury, being upset if not getting the PT he wants, or playing in an offense that doesn't pack his stats.

We will dodge a bullet and have less gray hairs if he doesn't come.

@JhawkAlum
I totally agree. I want nothing to do w this type of a kid. I know OADs are a necessary evil right now, but I say stay away from ones like these. Go play for Kentucky where they promote the me first, selfie generation. I prefer the humble types like Wiggins and Oubre.

Does anyone really believe that Kansas has to live like this?

It is ridiculous. Recruit guys that need Kansas to get to the NBA. It is that simple.

The idea that we have to recruit the "best talent" is utter and complete nonsense.

Look at it this way ... do you want the hottest woman as your wife? That would be nice, but there are many other things to consider that make it work. Looks (or talent) is just one element -- important, mind you, but there are many other things to consider.

@HighEliteMajor High maintenance too

no, not with comments like that. Why is he even going to college then

Agree. I envision this Zimmerman kid being "Cush" from Jerry Maguire.

I know it was just an All-Star game but he looked like he didn't even want to be out there. Just stood around mostly. The dunk he had was nice but that's the only positive I saw. A lot of others played hard like Diallo & Brown.

@joeloveshawks If that's the case, I'm already getting "Cush lash".

@ZIG

I'll agree that they were kind of humble, but I do know we all kind of made a big deal of it when Wiggins got on the ground for a loose ball. I guess what I"m saying is I don't want humble OAD's either! Give me some non humble 4AD's, some meek 3 or 4AD's, some greedy 3AD's, some idiot 3AD's, some Mr. nice guy 4AD's!

Don't get me wrong, character counts, but we need people who are going to help us win!! LORD willing I only have another 25-30 years on this earth and I want to see a few more "One Shining Moment's" where KU is the star of the song!!

@HighEliteMajor

"The idea that we have to recruit the "best talent" is utter and complete nonsense."

I consider hustle and attitude to be a huge component of talent. If you think of it that way then we DO want the best talent.

I know we definitely don't want a kid with a funky attitude. It only takes one bad attitude to spoil the entire team.

"Does anyone really believe that Kansas has to live like this? "

Heck no. And we don't have to have supporting writers who basically apologize for the City of Lawrence not being some kind of special place (like Lutz reacted on Marshall sticking it out in Wichita).

I don't have a Kansas bumper sticker on my truck, well... mostly because the license tag says Kansas. But I'm quite proud to be from Kansas and I always laugh at people that think they need to apologize for living here. Wichita isn't a bad place and the people from Wichita should be proud. Just like all other places in Kansas.

I've lived in monster cities and many countries. I enjoyed all of it. And now I'm enjoying being home in the State I was born. It's all good!

No, we really don't need that turd.

The OAD era has put us in a vicious cycle where we need to land top ten recruits every year to maintain a level of success. The sad thing is, we haven't been very successful... I think most would agree, this was kind of a down year.

Self desperately needs to do what he did in 2005: Recruit 3-4 year guys, then repeat. We need to establish a cycle. This is what made KU so successful from 2007-2013. Ya, there were some bad endings in that time, but those teams were flat out good. And they had swagger; they had chemistry.

KU now is soft. Lacks character. They are pussies (I'm sorry, it needed to be said). Frank is the only player that looks tough, plays tough, and has heart. I don't doubt that the other guys can get there, but boy is it a far cry from the animals that made up KU from about 2007-2011. I wrote a lengthy piece about this several months back. Losing coaches is one thing. It's out of Self's control for the most part. Guys like Danny Manning don't come along every day. But establishing a competent, cyclical system is very much in Self's control. I don't want what UK and Duke are doing; I want no part in it. I would take that 2008 or 2012 team over any of their's. Those were our guys. Those guys on the 2012 team were friends. I saw them in class, hung out with them at the bar, saw them at parties (you get the idea). It was fun! They were KU. They represented us. Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Kelly Oubre don't mean the same thing to me. But I digress..

This isn't that hard. Look at Louisville's recruiting class this year. They have some really, really nice pieces coming in next year and they're gonna be around for the next 2-3 years. We need that so badly.

@MoonwalkMafia I'm feeling hopeful that this core of players that will return next year and the year after will take us to the top again. I love our guard situation for the next two years.
We do lack a good big, and need help next year. But if we have to suffer another year to get out of this OAD cycle by getting a couple of 2-4 year players, then I'm good.

@JhawkAlum This guy sounds like a flake. ;) But seriously.

This is funny. Zim is giving KU a mercy recruiting chance. I hope to be shocked when he announces, but I don't see this kid at KU at all.

Actually, I'd say at this point, he's down to UNLV and UK. I think he's all in with UNLV at the moment. However, he's waiting to see what the bigs do at UK. Another West coast school might be a distant third option. But he simply lists KU out of kindness and respect for the program. I haven't heard a word of Self and Co visiting him at all for the last 6 mos or more.

@HighEliteMajor

Alright, you got me with the hottest woman analogy. :-)

Just once I would like to see Self recruit the hell out one of these full of it types and then after the stupid hat trick ceremony where he picks KU, then Self holds a press conference and Self says, "The players and I have talked it over and we've decided the guy just doesn't have a pair. All our guys try really hard and, well, its nothing personal, but we would rather play with someone that does, too."

@jaybate-1.0 he kinda did, not playing Cliff for a long time, even w/all the fans complaining.

I've been thinking about this post since @JhawkAlum asked the question this morning.

I say YES, we want him.

The super nice fellows we've been getting the past few years have netted us 9, 10 losses per year and no deep runs into the tournament. Hardly any runs into the second weekend.

Maybe it's time for a D-1 D-bag. If that's really what he is.

Maybe it's time we recruit nasty, play nasty.

Aww - I'm just foolin.

?

@nuleafjhawk This kid is not the second coming of Darnell Jackson by any stretch... His mom is quite the twitter hit if that tells you anything (@Stevezimmsmom or something like that). I've met a million kids like him. He's not the "D-1 D-bag" we're looking for. He's an upper class turd. Thon Maker on the other hand reminds me of the Monstars from Space Jam. That dude is flat out mean... Given our situation where we can only get these top guys, give me Maker or Diello. Brown is a nice addition, but either of those big guys makes a big difference.

@MoonwalkMafia Lol - I don't know anything about him at all, but I literally laughed out loud at the " upper class turd ". Ok, if everyone says we don't want him, we don't want him.

We all wanted Selby though didn't we........... Crap.

@nuleafjhawk I've never heard upper or lower class turd. I'm guessing it's better to be a lower class turd?

@Crimsonorblue22 I guess it's all in the perspective !

@JhawkAlum Amen. Go work the Euro wires, and the juco farms, and get some tough S.O.B. that's willing to die for the chance to play for KU. I'm serious...I want some tough guys that are absolutely amazed at the opportunity to get on floor at the Phog. I don't want distracted players dutifully fulfilling their one year college sentence. I want a guy that wants to win every game- that has the moxie to will wins. Because he plays for KU. Because he's going to win.

@Crimsonorblue22 Well, upper class deuces don't stink, while lower class deuces are just awful, skunk-died-down-there situations...

Zimmerman is Kaleb Tarczweski v.2: SOFT Kaleb did NOT want to bust his ass for Self & Hudy, and he looked more lost than a blonde in AZ's Tourney loss. That's what soft gets, and I bet Kaleb is not lotto list material. Man, I'll take a Withey before I take Zimmerman.

Now, why cant we do the 5 by committee? I have seen no reason that Hunter Mickelson cannot exceed Withey's statline, if given 25mpg, and he seems to have a midrange jumper he keeps trying to show us. Let the kid play. Let he + Lucas + Bragg battle it out for mpg.

And its not as simple as saying next season with the same bigs will be a repeat of this season. Bragg is thrown in, and just his presence will push the older players. Especially having one of those 'headband-athletes', KY/Baylor type of athletic bigs...

If Self wants to get back to his dominating paint presence type of play, then get such bodies in here, that have the matching mindset. Maybe he can light a fire under that 6'11, 270lb Thorne kid? Who knows.

@drgnslayr I must respectfully disagree. While I do think that Kansas is an unapologetically nice place to live, Wichita is a dirty scuzzy town.

If you want VD go to Wichita. If you want a good time go to Lawrence..

I decided to risk it @HighEliteMajor and went for the hottest wife available and got a great woman at the same time! We celebrate 25 years this summer which is better than some 11 year conference winning streak.

@dylans I'm planning on a trip there this week, now I'm scared!😱👏👏

@Crimsonorblue22

Visit the "Keeper of the Plains"... hopefully he'll still be dancing above two bodies of water... if there is any water there.

@dylans

Maybe Wichita isn't your cup of tea... so I take it you don't live there? I'm saying... for people that live there... if they don't like it or feel they should apologize for their town, they should move on. Wichita isn't going to be for everyone, just like NYC isn't. No one has to live in a place they hate (in this country). That was my main point.

I've always loved Lawrence. But I probably wouldn't live there again today. Too many people (for a 'town' ) and too expensive. I still love the place.

@drgnslayr I go over there pretty often, mostly the west side. The zoo is awesome! They also have chic fillet!

@wissoxfan83 said:

hottest wife available

(italics added)

Haha - dude - that could get you in a whole lotta trouble !

Your real name isn't Phil Miller is it ?

@Crimsonorblue22 Nothing wrong with Wichita. You should've seen how big my eyes got as a kid going there. My first visit to McDonalds. My first visit to Wendys. Hey, it was the big city for me....

@KUSTEVE it still is to me!

@drgnslayr No I live in a small town in SW Kansas.

@KUSTEVE I have had the worst experience of my life in Wichita. I'll never get back what was lost and for that I'll never forgive the Police/ DA's complete lack of giving a sh** for a human life. Quantrill burned down the wrong town in the wrong century.

@Crimsonorblue22 You'll be Ok. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders. Have fun on your trip.

@dylans

One bad experience should not biased you against an entire city. I am sure most if not all of us have had bad experiences in different towns/cities all over and yet we don't hold it against the small cities. At one time (maybe this is till the case), every small town in Kansas used to be a speed trap with speed signs a the edge of towns conveniently placed behind trees or tall bushes and before you know you had flashing lights behind you; St. Mary's between Topeka and Manhattan was know for this...a bad experience every time and yet I do not hold a broke Police Department against the towns themselves.
The KC metro area seems to be in most every list as one the best cities to live and work and yet I would not even drive on the East side/inner KC MO after dark and the reputation of the entire Metro area is based in great part to the Kansas side of the area. Likewise, Wichita, like every other city, has its bad side but overall it is a pretty decent city.

@dylans so sorry to hear your sad news!

@Crimsonorblue22 Thank you.

@JayHawkFanToo I am truly glad that you have no idea. Speeding tickets are an officer doing his job I have a few and I don't hate the cop or city. This isn't the place, but it you'd like me to explain how an experience can gilt you on an entire town we can have a private chat sometime.

@dylans maybe you can share w/all of us?

@dylans

You don't need to explain your particular situation. Bad experiences can go from mere inconveniences to major events, but again one bad experience even a major one should not paint the entire town in a negative light. Yes, I get it that you had a seriously bad experience but that alone does not make the whole town bad, right?...again, I get it, maybe they have lousy Police Department and the DAs are incompetent but that in and of itself does not make the entire town bad., right?

By the way, I have no problem with speeding tickets. I do have problem with "speed traps" where one minute you are driving on state route at the legal speed limit only to be stopped by a Police office that informs that you supposedly missed the city limit and lower speed sign, fully hidden behind trees and bushes and you get a hefty fine that they know you will pay because you are not likely to drive back a few hundred miles just to contest the obviously illegal citation.

Again, I am not trying to make light of your bad experience, I am simply saying that maybe you should consider that literally hundreds of thousand of people, including myself, have been to Wichita and did not have the bad experience you had; in fact, it was quite the opposite. Just my opinion and obviously we respectfully agree to disagree.

@JayHawkFanToo Ignorance is bliss.

@dylans

Got it, only your own opinion and experiences count. I politely gave you my view on the subject, I am sorry that you could not do likewise. My last post in the subject.

Ah, @JayHawkFanToo is back. It was amazing how nice things have been around here the last few weeks. Smooth, respectful conversations. But it changes. @dylans obviously had a very difficult personal experience, but you have to tell him why he shouldn't think that way. I'm surprised you didn't post a link showing Wichita to be one of the top 20 places to live. That surely would have convinced him that his unfortunate personal experience shouldn't color his view of the town.

How hard is this? @dylans tried to stop the conversation, said he'd chat privately with you. And you then posted another three paragraphs telling everyone again what you are "simply saying."

Then you come back again with the tired old "last post on the subject." How many other folks here ever really have to go there?

Back to Zimmerman, wasn't it his mom who declared that her son would not sign the standard Div. 1 scholarship contract, a la Kentucky's ex-Brandon Knight?

@REHawk

yes it will be interesting to see if that holds true this month or whenever he decides to spend one year of the least resistance in college.

I want 2nd year Alexander, Senior Ellis, and Bragg. If that works out for KU then we would have a pretty Skilled Front court with 3 really good backups. Everyone is already pretty happy with our guards. I guess the NCAA will keep us in limbo right up to the deadline.

@Crimsonorblue22

There is a distinct difference believe it or not.

Upper class turds think they are hot s#@t on a golden platter, when in reality they are nothing more than a cold turd on a paper plate.

Lower class turds are like the Cal & the UK players who refused handshakes & shot off the mouth cannons at the presser following the loss to Wisconsin-their vantage point is so low they think whale shit is shooting stars.

@Statmachine

"I want 2nd year Alexander, Senior Ellis, and Bragg."

You know... no matter what they determine on Cliff now... they can always go backwards later and vacate our season next year when we play him. If he is cleared, it can be revoked if evidence comes in the future.

Cliff will always be a huge risk. He needs to leave Lawrence.

@drgnslayr

Very true,

We will need to know from the NCAA or Cliff will take it into his own hands by declaring. Either way he has until when? April 12th or April 26th to declare, or withdraw and return.

Can someone explain the underclassmen rules?

@drgnslayr I tend to agree on Cliff. As much as I would like to see him back I think that this situation leaves KU no choice but to let him leave. Just in case something comes back to haunt us down the road.

@drgnslayr could the NCAA really take away our wins if they cleared him themselves?

@JhawkAlum

Of course they can, and they WILL especially if anyone involved was found to purposely hide evidence. This is 100% truth!

I really like the big guy... but we should punt. Too high of risk, and completely not fair to put our existing team at risk, the university and all the fans.

@drgnslayr If the NCAA clears Cliff after all of this time, I don't think that they would want to dig much deeper. The NCAA can do anything they want and don't appear to be bothered by looking stupid. On the other hand this is different that the Rose situation with Memphis. In that case they supposedly got later information that got them to take another look and declare him ineligible and thus vacate Memphis wins. In this case after the initial clearance they got information that caused them raise questions and KU sat Cliff. To come back again after explicit clearance would demonstrate that the current investigation was screwed up and they look really bad.

Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

@sfbahawk

Your example of Rose is exactly what I'm talking about. And if evidence comes up later, even if they have already dug into this case before, Kansas will be toast. Memphis... toast... Kansas... toast.

It isn't about looking bad. And if real evidence pops up later (and it always can) then if the NCAA doesn't act on it they look a lot worse! Cliff being cleared is no different than any other player cleared. It can always be overturned and it is very unlikely those games will count, especially if the school knew there were potential issues. Kansas knows there are potential issues. We can't say next year we weren't warned. The NCAA just didn't have enough evidence to keep Cliff ineligible.

This is a no brainer. Cliff should be done at Kansas. If there was no wrong doing and nothing hidden, he would have been cleared for March Madness. The risk moving forward is on Kansas. Play him and risk everything. I will even agree with that and accept the season being vacated because we should have known better!

@HighEliteMajor

What is it about me that bugs you so much? Is it the fact that I don't take your word as the second coming of John Wooden?

I simply expressed my own personal opinion in relation to the City of Wichita as a whole, nothing else. You don't know what I know or don't know about @dylans' situation, you don't know if I messaged @dylans privately and more importantly, you don't know what is in my heart...and yet you pass judgement anyway; what do they call that? The pot calling the kettle black...

I stayed away from the Forum for a couple of week precisely to avoid reading the criticism of Coach Self which was sure to follow and of which you are the leading champion...frankly, it is boring. If you don't like my posts...don't read them, it's that simple.

@drgnslayr

If I understand correctly, the NCAA can punish KU if they can prove that it was aware of the situation and let Alexander play anyway. From what I read, KU was as surprised as the rest of us and as soon as it was notified it sat Alexander. At this time and based on what I have read, I believe KU is in the clear...but then, I have no access to any inside information, only what is openly available.