@JRyman said:
I am glad you reiterated your questions, so that I have another chance to answer them yes or no. and then go beyond the yes or no format to what I think is the heart of the matter.
Is anyone on this sight have a higher basketball IQ than Bill Self does? Yes or no? EMPHATICALLY NO. BUT EVERY BRILLIANT PERSON I HAVE EVER WORKED WITH HAS MADE MISTAKES AND MISJUDGMENTS THAT LESSERS CAUGHT AND BY CALLING ATTENTION TO THEM HELPING SUCH BRILLIANT PERSONS REDIRECT ONTO THE ERRORS. WE CLEARLY CATCH SELF IN MISTAKES AND MISJUDGMENTS, BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY OF US, WE THE ADVANTAGE OF HINDSIGHT, AND EVEN IN REAL TIME FORA LIKE JESSE NEWELL'S LIVE BLOG WE HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF OBJECTIVITY. ANY PERSON ENGAGED IN ANY ACTIVITY AT A HIGH LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN ADVANTAGES TO BEING IN THE MOMENT IN THE THICK OF THINGS, AND CERTAIN OTHER ADVANTAGES TO BEING ABOVE THE FRAY AND BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT THINGS WITHOUT THE PRESSURE OF ACTION IN THE MOMENT. ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT BEING A FAN OF BILL SELF IS THAT HE HAS SUCH GREAT CONFIDENCE IN HIS ABILITIES AND SUCH CLARITY OF PURPOSE THAT HE IS WILLING TO TALK AFTER THE FACT ABOUT SITUATIONS (SOMETIMES AFTER THE GAME, SOME TIMES DAYS AFTER THE GAME, SOMETIMES WEEKS, SOMETIMES MONTHS, AND SOMETIMES THE FOLLOWING SEASON, ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE BETTER. I REALLY THINK SELF IS MORE PRONE TO REVEAL THESE KINDS OF REVISIONS IN HIS THINKING THAN MANY OTHER COACHES AND IT IS THE SIGN OF A BRILLIANT AND SUPREMELY CONFIDENT MIND BENT ON GETTING BETTER. THERE ARE MISTAKES HE WON'T ADMIT, BECAUSE ADMITTING THEM WON'T MAKE HIM, OR HIS TEAM BETTER AT THE TIME, IN HIS ESTIMATION, OR IT COULD JEOPARDIZE HIS AUTHORITY, OR BECAUSE HE JUST DOESN'T HAVE A FIX FOR IT YET. BUT HE CAN BE REMARKABLY CANDID AND PROFOUND IN HIS REMARKS AT TIMES AND OFTEN THESE REMARKS TAKE DAYS, OR WEEKS, OF PUBLIC DISCOURSE HERE TO RECOGNIZE THEIR SIGNIFICANCE. FRANKLY, SELF IS SO GOOD THAT I NEVER TRY TO CATCH HIS MISTAKES. I DEVOTE MYSELF TO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AND THEN UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS DOING. I HAVE LEARNED MORE BASKETBALL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT BILL SELF DOES THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER WAY IN ALL MY YEARS OF WATCHING THE GAME. HE IS COACHING AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, EVEN RELATIVE TO MOST OTHER D1 COACHES. FANS THAT TRY TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH BILL SELF ARE REALLY MISSING THE EDUCATION OF A LIFE TIME. FIRST OF ALL, HE DOESN'T MAKE MANY MISTAKES. SECOND, IF YOU FOCUS ON HIS MISTAKES YOU ARE GOING TO MISS ALL THESE OPPORTUNITIES TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL HE IS REALLY UP TO MOST OF THE TIME. I FIND HIS MISTAKE ONLY INCIDENTALLY TO LOOKING AT ALL THE GOOD STUFF HE IS DOING AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW HE DOES IT AND WHAT THE RATIONALE IS, IF ANY DRIVING HIS CHOICES.
Does anyone know this roster of players better than Bill Self does? Yes or no? EMPHATICALLY NO. BUT WE ARE ALL PRISONERS OF OUR EXPERIENCE AND OUR ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, WHEN VIEWING OPTIONS OF OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE SCHEMES, OPTIONS OF STRATEGY AND TACTICS, AND OPTIONS OF ABILITIES. I NEVER FIND THAT BILL SELF MISJUDGES THE ABILITY (OR LACK THEREOF) OF A PLAYER TO PERFORM A NEEDED ROLE IN HIS BRAND OF BASKETBALL, ONCE HE HAS THEM ON THE TEAM. HE GUESSES WRONG ON RECRUITING VERY OCCASIONALLY, BUT THEN HOW COULD ONE NOT. BUT SELF IS VERY PURPOSEFUL AND SENSIBLE AND FOR THE MOST PART DOES NOT TALK MUCH ABOUT WHAT HIS PLAYERS MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO FOR ANOTHER TEAM, OR ANOTHER COACH, OR ANOTHER SYSTEM. HIS FOCUS IS WINNING HERE AND NOW WITH THE PLAYERS ON THIS ROSTER THIS SEASON UNDER THE SCHEME AND STRATEGY HE HAS SELECTED. IN CONTRAST, OFTEN, WHEN MANY HERE EXPLORE A PLAYER'S ABILITIES AND PERFORMANCE, THEY ARE VIEWING THE PLAYER NOT THROUGH SELF'S LENS, BUT THROUGH THE LENS OF OTHER APPROACHES TO SCHEME AND STRATEGY. BOARD RATS OFTEN DON'T SAY SO, BUT WHAT THEY ARE REALLY OFTEN WRITING IS: THIS PLAYER COULD DO SO MUCH MORE THAN HE IS BEING ALLOWED TO DO...IF SELF ADOPTED A DIFFERENT SCHEME AND STRATEGY. THAT PLAYER WOULD DEVELOP MUCH FASTER... IF SELF ADOPTED A DIFFERENT SCHEME AND STRATEGY THAT MADE BETTER USE OF THAT PLAYER'S TALENTS AND SKILLS. @HighEliteMajor AND I CLEARLY AGREE ON A LOT OF ISSUES ABOUT BASKETBALL, BUT HE FREQUENTLY ANALYZES PLAYERS IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH MORE SELF COULD GET OUT OF THEM ANOTHER WAY; I.E., UNDER ANOTHER SCHEME AND STRATEGY. @HighEliteMajor DOESN'T DISPUTE THAT SELF HAS A SOLID GRASP OF WHAT WORKS. HE ARGUES THAT SELF STICKS TOO CLOSELY WITH HIS SCHEME AND STRATEGY TO OFTEN WHEN THE TALENTS OF HIS PLAYERS SUGGEST GOING TO ANOTHER SCHEME AND STRATEGY. I THINK IT IS A VALID ARGUMENT AND ONE THAT REVEALS A LOT TO BOARD RATS ABOUT WHAT ELSE MIGHT BE FEASIBLE. AT THE SAME TIME, I OFTEN DISAGREE WITH @HighEliteMajor THAT DIVERGING FROM SELF'S SELECTED COURSE OF ACTION WOULD YIELD SOMETHING NET BETTER. I FIND THAT WHEN I DRILL DOWN INTO WHAT SELF IS DOING, ESPECIALLY AT TIMES THAT IT SEEMS MOST COUNTER INTUITIVE, THAT I COME TO AGREE WITH SELF'S CHOSEN COURSE OF ACTION. I BELIEVED HE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION WHEN HE OPTED FOR BAD BALL ONCE I UNDERSTOOD IT. @HighEliteMajor DECIDED IT WAS A TERRIBLE CHOICE. BUT HERE'S THE THING: I AM HERE TO LEARN AND I LEARNED A GREAT DEAL NOT ONLY FROM DRILLING DOWN INTO SELF'S BAD BALL, BUT ALSO A TON FROM @HighEliteMajor's SOUNDLY ARGUED ANALYSIS THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS. I DECIDED THAT @HighEliteMajor FOUND AN ALTERNATIVE PATH THAT MIGHT HAVE WORKED AND SO MIGHT BE WORTH RETAINING IT FOR FUTURE CIRCUMSTANCES, EVEN THOUGH I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT SELF'S ANGLE WAS NOT ONLY BRILLIANT , BUT BETTER. IF @HighEliteMajor HAD NOT CHALLENGED BILL SELF'S DECISION MAKING AS RIGOROUSLY AS HE DID, I WOULD NEVER HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT BILL SELF WAS DOING IN THE GRATIFYING DEPTH (AT LEAST TO ME) THAT I REACHED. THIS IS THE GREAT SYNERGY ENABLED BY SPIRITED PUBLIC DISCOURSE. IT GOES A LARGE STEP BEYOND WHAT EVEN COACH SELF--THE GREAT BASKETBALL GENIUS THAT HE IS--CAN REVEAL AND TEACH BY EXAMPLE.
Does anyone know what players need to be recruited and signed for this KU team better than coach Self does? Yes or no? EMPHATICALLY NOT. BUT ONLY THROUGH THE LENS THAT COACH SELF VIEWS THE GAME. THROUGH OTHER LENS, EITHER THOSE OF KNOWLEDGEABLE BOARD RATS, OR THOSE BELONGING TO OTHER GREAT COACHING MINDS OF THE GAME TODAY THAT BOARD RATS HERE CAN ACCESS OVER THE NET THE SAME WAY THEY ACCESS COACH SELF (I.,E., REMOTELY) SOMEONE ELSE MAY WELL COME UP WITH A VALID ALTERNATIVE ANGLE ON RECRUITS THAT WILL IN THE PROCESS ILLUMINATE EVEN MORE WHY COACH SELF IS PURSUING WHO HE IS PURSUING.
If anyone can answer yes to any of those questions please step out of your shadows and reveal what great coach you are. Prove it to the masses you are as great as you say you are? What’s you wing percentage? Where? What level?
TO ME TO DEMONSTRATE THAT NO FAN IS AS GOOD AT COACHING, AND THE ASPECTS OF COACHING, AS A COACH SELF LIKE SELF THAT HAS SPENT A CAREER LEARNING TO COACH AND WHO IS PAID $3-5-10MILLION PER YEAR FROM VARIED SOURCES IS KIND OF A TAUTOLOGY; I.E., A SELF-REINFORCING PRETENSE OF SIGNIFICANT TRUTH THAT IS QUITE BESIDE THE POINT OF PUBLIC DISCOURSE ABOUT THE TOPIC OF KU BASKETBALL. I HAVE NEVER READ A SINGLE BOARD RAT ON KUBUCKETS CLAIM TO BE SMARTER, BETTER, OR TO HAVE A HIGHER BASKETBALL IQ, OR TO BE A BETTER RECRUITER, OR A BETTER JUDGE OF TALENT, OR BETTER BENCH COACH, THAN COACH SELF....EVER. SO THE REAL QUESTION IS THIS: WHY DO YOU POSE SUCH A STRAW QUESTION? WHAT IS IT YOU ARE REALLY TRYING TO ASSERT IN THE FORM OF A STRAW ARGUMENT/QUESTION THAT HINGES ON A PREMISE THAT DOES NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE EXIST?
SO: HAVING TRIED TO RESPECTFULLY AND GENUINELY TRIED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ONE BY ONE, I WILL NOW ASK YOU: WHY DO YOU POSE THIS STRAW QUESTION?
WHO EXACTLY IS IN THE SHADOWS CLAIMING TO BE SMARTER, ETC., THAT COACH BILL SELF?
NOT ME.
I CALL SELF THE GENIUS.
AND I MEAN IT.
AND I DON'T CALL MYSELF ONE, NOR DO I VIEW MYSELF AS ONE.
@HighEliteMajor?
I don't think so. I believe he is pretty much in awe of WHAT SELF has accomplished AT KU, and HE APPEARS TO respect the soundness of the Self approach, despite his opinion that Self CAN GET TOO INFLEXIBLE IN ADHERENCE TO THE APPROACH.
@drgnslayr? NOT SLAYR. HE SEEMS TO THINK SELF IS AN AWESOME COACH THAT COULD GET BETTER BY STUDYING HOW THE NBA COACHES ENCOURAGE MORE FREE LANCING AND CREATIVITY.
@REHawk? WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE REST OF US, THE COACH PROBABLY KNOWS MORE BASKETBALL IN ONE OF HIS EYE LASHES THAN THE REST OF US COMBINED, BUT HE CONSTANTLY MARVELS AT WHAT THE EDMOND KID KEEPS PULLING OFF, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS THE USUAL SUCCINCT JUDGEMENTS COACHES THAT HAVE HAD TO MAKE A LIVING MAKING SUCH JUDGEMENTS ARE FAMOUS FOR.
I HAVE GONE DOWN THE LIST OF EVERY ALIAS THAT PUBLISHES FREQUENTLY HERE BEYOND THE SHORT LIST ABOVE, AT LEAST THAT I CAN RECALL.
I CAN'T THINK OF ANY FREQUENT POSTERS THAT ARGUE THEY KNOW MORE THAN SELF, OR HAVE MORE KNOWLEDGE, WOULD BE BETTER D1 HEAD COACHES AT KU.
WHO ARE THESE POSTERS IN THE SHADOWS?
IF THEY EXIST, TELL US WHO THEY ARE?
I FOR ONE WILL WRITE A POST IMMEDIATELY AND POKE FUN AT THE IDEA THAT SUCH AN ALIAS KNOWS MORE AND WOULD BE A BETTER HEAD COACH THAN BILL SELF.
AND I WILL BE AMIABLE DOING IT.
SERIOUSLY, I DON'T RECALL READING ANY OF THOSE KINDS OF POSTS HERE, OR EVEN AT THE OLD SITE, EXCEPT FOR THOSE POSTED BY SITE DESTABILIZERS, OFTEN APPEARING TO BE LURKERS FROM FIZZOU, KSU, MEMPHIS AND UK. AND WE CAN'T BOTHER OURSELVES OVER THOSE TYPES.
P.S.: Here is an example of why public discourse is so helpful, even when it cannot necessarily answer a question in short order. @HighEliteMajor has grappled with with understanding Jamari Traylor's performance about as much as any of us. Unlike me, HEM drilled to Traylor's stats and went to some lengths to try to understand why Self kept playing him. I had opinions. Everyone else had opinions. Pro Journo Jesse Newell even weighed in with the jump ball stat that Landon Lucas and Jamari excelled at. But in the end, HEM pulled out the decisive stat--the anemic rebounds per minute stat, or something related to that. The guy does not get enough rebounds to sneeze at. After all the Ken Pom-ing and all the opining and all the human interest angles, and all the energy angles, and all the exploding out of position angles, and after he learned to put it on the deck, and got a rudimentary J, still the bottomline questions is: how can Self afford to play a big man that gets so few rebounds per minute played?
NO ONE CAN ANSWER THAT YET.
NOT ME, NOT YOU, NOT ANYONE.
NOT EVEN SELF CAN ANSWER THAT YET.
AT LEAST HE HAS CHOSEN NOT TO ADDRESS IT.
If one lets go of the frustration, this single statistic of @HighEliteMajor's points us to something very, very, VERY important about Bill Self.
He is a coach that bets players with great physical ability can eventually learn to do a task that is consistent with that sort of physical ability, if Self can find a way to give that player enough time in the context of the team's need for success.
Self is a coach that decides some players just can't get it this season in time for the good of the team.
But the most important thing is this: Self is a coach that bets on great physical ability learning how...and then finding a way.
Its true that Self picked Traylor off a high school team shortly after Traylor had been homeless.
But it was really Traylor's high school coach (or was it his AAU coach) that saved Traylor from the streets; that got him back under a roof. Not Bill Self.
Bill Self is the coach that saw a ton of athleticism, explosive jumping, lots of muscles, and said that if I can coach this guy up, I can have a player with just the kind of MUA I need in my big man rotation. I need a guy who can go small when the opponent goes small on my long big men, and yet have the kind of explosive physicality to dominate the little guys the opponents bring into the game to trip up my long bigs.
Self sees in Traylor a small big that could help Self play it any way they want.
Self apparently saw in Traylor a guy who COULD learn to put it on the deck, who COULD learn to shoot the J. And Self apparently believed sooner or later the athletic Traylor could "get it" regarding rebounding. He could "get the knack."
We have three years behind us and one to go with Traylor.
Traylor can score a little, and a little scoring is apparently how Self defines the role.
But its the damned rebounding knack that Traylor can't quite get.
And yet...
Self sees the athleticism in practice. He sees him explode out of position in games. He sees him play through injuries.
Self is betting on the longest shot there is in basketball; that a guy without the knack for rebounding can "get it."
Its who Self is.
He is, as @drgnslayr likes to say, a riverboat gambler.
When he views a hand as a potential big winner, he will pretty much take any risk.
Self would rather bet on the long shot that Traylor will learn to "get it" on the glass, than bet on anyone else bigger, or longer, being able to cover the small bigs that are thrown at us.
He is waiting on Traylor the same way he waited on Tyshawn Taylor.
To the rest of us, having a small big to rotate doesn't seem that big of a deal.
But to Mr. Play It Anyway They Want, well, a small big that can do it all is worth a whole lot!!!!
Were it not for all the debate over this topic of Traylor's virtues and vices, I don't think I would have ever seen Bill Self' mission as clearly. And the debate wasn't enough. It came down to one rock hard stat--rebounds per minute--set down and reasserted by @HighEliteMajor it repeatedly until persons just couldn't escape it anymore.
And when one is confronted with the truth, one has to fit it into the mosaic, if one wants to learn.
This is what Gandhi understood.
@HighEliteMajor got beyond giving us a choice.
He gave us a fact that won't go away.
It forces us to explain it.
Not rationalize it.
But explain it.
I don't know how this gamble of Self's with Traylor will play out.
But if this team learns how to rebound small, it is a huge step closer to playing it any way they want and doing so.
