No hands. No touch point blank. No face up J. No agility or foot quickess after 4 yrs of Huditioning. We gave up the lead with him in there, and then mentally we were done.
Solution: Mickelson + Bragg by committee would quadruple that stat sheet of Lucas.
LAY OFF Jamari Traylor. Kid has more heart and hustle.
Lucas = 5th big. Emergency use only. Matt Kleinmann mpg.
Jamari came out at halftime and immediately drew fouls on them in consecutive plays. Traylor was not the problem this game.
The real problems were the 3 and 5 positions as usual. Selden simply hasn't developed. His ball skills are exactly the same as when he came in.
The Spartans have established a blueprint on how to beat us, in my opinion. Helps that Valentine had a career night and Mason looked injured/tired. It's a loss; we move on. And yes, we need Diallo badly.
@ralster Carlton Bragg had 4 points and 1 foul in 11 minutes. That's his entire stat sheet from the game. Bragg isn't ready to contribute at KU yet. He gets pushed around more than Lucas does. This was a problem in Korea and it showed again big time tonight. KU doesn't have a good answer right now either because all 4 bigs besides Ellis all have major holes in the game right now.
@Texas-Hawk-10 my son was there and said Bragg looked pretty skinny and was shoved around easily
@Texas-Hawk-10 we need diallo
@Texas-Hawk-10 That is sheer and utter nonsense. Izzo played the #84 player who hit three, three pointers. Bragg is just flat better, all around, than Lucas or Traylor. Isn't ready to contribute? Good lord.
Was Marcus Morris, from day one, not better than Jamari Traylor ever has been? And i think, lest my my memory fails me, that Morris actually contributed from day one. Me thinks Bragg might be a touch more talented from day one than Morris.
I tend to think … just me thinking here … that if you happened to let a guy like Bragg get in the floor, he might get in the flow a bit.
@Crimsonorblue22 Well there you have it. "Pretty skinny". Funny, because Traylor isn't super skinny and he gets shoved around. Basketball, my friend, is primarily about skill. But when we look for reasons to defend Self's poor decision making, it doesn't matter what the long history of basketball has told us.
@HighEliteMajor no friend!
@HighEliteMajor You like stats. Here's Bragg's stat line tonight. 11 minutes., 4 points (2-2 FG), 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 1 foul.
Carlton Bragg did not do a damn thing tonight. He has 3 rebounds in 28 minutes this year. Stats don't lie right? How does 0.1 rebounds per minute compare to Lucas or Traylor? Bragg isn't physically ready yet and I called that during Korea as well. Bragg is listed at 22o on KU's site, the same weight Diallo is listed at and yet, Bragg would need to add weight to be toothpick.
One thing you're good at is twisting people's words to fit whatever point you're trying to make. Tell me where I said Bragg isn't as talented as Lucas or Traylor because I'm dying know how far up your butt you had to dig to find that load of crap from.
Let's keep it civil. It's a frustrating loss. This team will either learn from this and stomp on the throat when they are up by 13... or we're going to have a rollercoaster season.
@BeddieKU23 said:
The answer to bench Lucas is to #Free Diallo.
Not in our hands to decide.Hunter is the last big for a reason (in Self's eyes). Bragg will not get the minutes he deserves until he stops playing like a freshman on defense.
Point is that Self has an obvious blind spot.
Diallo most likely would play like a Freshman too . Other Coaches seem to play their talented Fresh. Not sure what our problem is.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Ok, I guess I misunderstood then. You make a point of saying "Bragg isn't ready to contribute at KU yet."
You then protest asking where did you say "Bragg isn't as talented as Lucas or Traylor." I'm sorry, did I say that you said that? Read my post above.
Your ridiculous position is that the #21 player "isn't ready to contribute at KU yet." You did see him this summer, right?
So answer the questions. Was Marcus Morris, from day one, better than Jamari Traylor ever has been? And is Bragg more talented than Marcus Morris?
What are the answers to the questions? Just curious.
In your world, obviously, you'd play Jamari Traylor over Bragg. No one is ready at Kansas. Other places, sure. Not Kansas I guess.
How about this in general -- Self failed. Whatever his strategizing, game planning, preparation, he failed. We lost to an injured and inferior MSU team. We somehow have only won one time in this Champions classic. One time.
@bskeet Thank the Good Lord I fell asleep and didn't have to witness the second half. But it doesn't surprise me, shouldn't surprise anyone. That's what Self's teams do - coast. Someone out there can come up with a black/white statistic, but we've given up HUGE leads all throughout his career here. He has no killer instinct, therefore his teams don't have it. We're a better team playing from behind the whole way. SAD.
Games like this on national TV concern me. It clearly hurts in recruiting when one sees how Self manages the talent he has. Self's myopia and hubris is frustrating to all that see this unfolding again, and it hurts me to feel this way because I really like, generally how coach Self represents our program, school and community...
nice post, why would Bolden or Allen come here then watching Bragg sit??
@HighEliteMajor Your bias against Traylor and Lucas is clouding your judgement about what Bragg has actually done so far in Korea and the first 2 games.
Bragg was a 5 star recruit, not every 5 star recruit plays like a 5 star recruit right away. His offense at this point is a top of the key jumper. Any time he gets near the paint, he gets shoved away on both ends, this happebed in Korea. There's no way he's the 220 lbs. KU has him listed at. His ceiling is very high, but his ability level on November 18, 2015 isn't anywhere near that ceiling yet.
If 3 rebounds in 28 minutes is good enough for you, then so be it.
Since you asked who I'd play, my order would be Mickelson starting and then rotate the other guys in based on match ups. KU does not have a great option at that position right now as all 4 players have massive holes in their game so it would probably.
You can huff and puff all you want about Bragg having more talent from day 1 than either Morris twin, I don't think you're wrong, but talent and ability are 2 different things. Talent is where your ceiling is and ability is where you're at in regards to that ceiling today. Carlton Bragg's current ability level is far below his ceiling.
But here's a "better" way to make the point about Bragg vs. Lucas: Calipari would play Bragg (a top 20 McDAA right away over Lucas without a 2nd thought). Calipari would want Bragg to approach his Yr1 ceiling by the time it is early-March, now wouldn't he??
The postulate here is: Bragg with equal mpg from now til March, will surpass Lucas by March.
This game was nothing but another Tourney upset "forewarning" at the hands of a top20 team.
@BeddieKU23 because they see the need we have for them?
@nuleafjhawk Your post is simply using too broad of a brush-stroke for me. I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly about vs. Izzo: out of our 4 defeats to MichSt in the past 6 years, 3 of them have seen KU squander a double-digit lead in the 2nd half.
But to say or imply "Self teams" in general, would not produce the .82 win % and tough wins against tough opponents, imho...
But we all knew Bragg would be sitting the bench. He was behind Lucas/Mari in exhibitions & the first game. It's not going to change anytime soon, not with another road trip to Maui next week where quality foes like UCLA & Indiana possibly loom. Last nights effort won't beat either of them.
Its clear he doesn't trust Bragg yet and will never trust Hunter enough to let them just play. It's just how it is
@Bwag Strangest comment I've seen on these boards in quite a while.
Forgive me, but I thought we like players and teams that play with "heart". Does the 08Champs sound familiar? Sherron Collins, Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson say "hi".
How about the no-Mickey-D squad of 2012 that "gutted-out" 5 wins in the madness, coming from behind many times with the likes of Thomas Robinson, Tyshawn Taylor, EJ, Releford, Withey...many, many of us appreciated the heart, determination, and never-say-die attitude with which that team fought til the bitter end. I hold them in high esteem!
(But its OK that some KU fans do not appreciate "heart")
@BeddieKU23 But his trust in Traylor / Lucas...what because of truly unmeasurable things like 'energy' and 'our best sealer'.
Neither of those things with these players is giving us results. Not last year, not this.
I'm fine with working Bragg's minutes up over time, 3 minutes for Mickelson is inexcusable.
Bragg/Mickelson 14 minutes which is what Lucas had.
I remember us yelling collectively at the Morris twins as freshmen. I don't have many great memories of them as freshmen except that they kept losing the ball on the way to the hole and that they kept missing bunnies they could have dunked.
To elaborate a bit more on my Lucas point, and my "heart" point:
Now this is just my personal belief, but I think from a plateaued-ability level, the decision to play Lucas any meaningful mpg is a mgmt. decision. Yes, KU bball is big biz. So, I feel Self has a decision to make. Lucas is NOT the main engine that will drive us or this team, is he?? (key point)
Now if Mason, or Sherron, or Devonte, or Perry have a bad day/missed bunnies/missed 3s...I am way more "OK" with that loss (relatively speaking) --> simply because if your main horses are going to misfire, then it just isn't going to happen that day (think 80% Sherron vs. UNI). I will never be mad at Sherron (or Mason), because as team leaders, as their fortunes go, so goes KU's.
We cannot hide behind the oversimplification of "one team"--> it is more complex than that.
True we did not guard the 3, and offensively went away from Ellis...and missed 1 of 2 FT's TWICE in a close contest. But, this is about building that 12pt lead, stepping on the throat. The 1 post-seal I saw Lucas do, and he got a perfect hi-low post feed from Devonte, Lucas does a 2 ft airball off the glass. Inept. Cant do it.
Perry needs help. Maybe the offense went away from Ellis due to double teams, and that will happen more and more, as teams figure out Lucas' limited role & ability.
I agree with @HighEliteMajor on this one, regarding Bragg or Hunter vs Lucas.
Just my opinion, likely at odds with Self (who cares, really?): Hunter + Jamari at the 5. Ellis and Bragg (Ellis' sub, since Bragg scorer and defense stretcher) at the 4. Hunter gives rim protection, rebounding, has a face up J, and foot quickness. Jamari gives hustle and energy. He finds the ball. He is a scrapper. He hits his FTs. And, let's not forget another key fact: Traylor, whatever limitations his game has, he does not lack confidence most of the time. He is at the very least a "motivated athlete". He actually has some ups. He actually can put pressure on the D with his dribble drive.
Jamari Traylor (4th big) is a net positive.
Hunter Mickelson coulda/woulda/shoulda been a net positive. The rim protection alone would affect a few possessions, and if he makes 2 buckets more than Lucas...(dot, dot, dot...)
Bragg? Simply needs mpg to prove he's a net positive, and likely the #2 big behind Ellis.
Lucas = net negative. 4 or 5 possessions where he was a neg impact, and I mean at that critical time when we had the 12 point lead. And, ladies and gentlemen, how many times do we have to see a senior do the "moving screen" call. So really, that's 6-7 possessions affected.
Remember, I will take Mason/Sherron/Tyshawn driving it, because Self likely is trying to take advantage of the new rules, and driving starter guards are your main engine. If they cant hit their bunnies like the 08Champs couldn't in 07 vs UCLA in the Elite8, its just not meant to be.
I'll always bet on guys like Mason/Sherron/Tyshawn, but I just cannot bet on Lucas anymore, if that makes basketball sense to those who have played this game at any level?
...hey, just a-Wednesday mornin' quarterbackin...