The luminescent game Monday pitted the #1 team according to the sports writers against the #1 team according to the coaches,
After three overtimes in hallowed Allen Fieldhouse -- one of the greatest home-floor advantages in the sports world -- Kansas won by 3 points.
Now, both teams are 12-1.
If you were a coach that voted Sunday night/Monday morning for Oklahoma, would the outcome of this game change your mind about who is #1?
This is terrific. Absolutely plausible that OU does remain #1 in that poll. So is it KU +3 in Allen and OU +3 in Lloyd Noble. And on a neutral court they have to invent a sudden death after a dozen or so overtimes?? :)
OU played with Spangler still not 100% (leg). They surely can throw lobs or dribble drive and shooting treys, pick n roll, NBA style. They play a slightly higher level of bball than KU. No matter how tightly Buddy is guarded, he can still score at will. So can the rest of the team. Looks legit to be #1. I don't like it, but that's how I see it.
@pa_grape OU is definitely legit, but we did not play as well as we could have. Poor transition defense was one area. I would say the only thing OU does more of is ball screens, but KU does of bit of that too, and Perry and Wayne do a bit of their scoring off of pick and rolls, specifically Perry. Remember he made a three off a pick and roll to tie the game at 88.
Don't make to much of KU only winning by 3 at home over OU
OU is a good team and Coach Lon had them ready to come and play. OU as well as everybody else in the Big 12 knows. YOU WANT TO WIN THE BIG 12 THEN YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH LAWERANCE, KS.
KU was the hunted in this game, and OU was the hunter. Yet coach and KU were ready for the onslaught. To bad the officiating was in the bag for OU, as this game never makes it to triple overtime.
Also don't expect OU to just win at home against KU. I wouldn't be surprised if KU wins by 10. That's only if coach will continue to give Bragg and Diallo playing time. If by chance Coach decides to run with Traylor and Lucas then OU blows out KU.
@Crimsonorblue22 There is 1 big factor we seem to be over looking, and I'm as happy as everyone else that we won- - bet that - -BUT the one thing that is lost here is that their point guard their other scorer, can't remember his name is it Cousins? didn't do squat and tht ain't happening again you can for sure take that to the bank, so with him having an off night and it still takes us 3 OT'S to pull this out, just saying be ready it will be a war in Norman, so whether Spangler was hurt or not, they still was missing 1 of their main weapons offensively. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
A win trumps everything in my book, so KU should be #1.
And if Oklahoma thinks they can rely on Buddy Hield doubling his season average every game, they'll be sadly disappointed. The guy is a phenomenal player and had the game of his college life against us, but he won't do that again this season. So, if we're playing a game of "what ifs" that has to be a consideration.
@jayballer54 so you think if cousins heats up there will be enough 🏀🏀🏀 to go around? Think Hield will hit 40+ again? Do you think our freshmen will improve? Selden have foul problems? We could possibly have Higgins again though! (puke)
Unless you have "perfect storm" game where everybody plays better than average, one or two players will always play better and one or two players worse than average. Overall OU played above average and KU below. Yes, Cousins had a below par game but most of the other players were above par, while KU had Mason and Mickelson play well below their averages. Overall. KU has much bigger margin of error by virtue of its deep bench while OU has a smaller margin of error because of its shallow bench. Had another OU player had a sub-par game, KU wins comfortably.
I watch a ton of college ball and I am 100% convinced that KU is the #1 team in the country. No one has our depth. No one has our upperclassmen. Few teams have our talent.
OU played an incredible game the other night and they may have the best player in the country in Hield (Valentine and Simmons are right there with him). This was their Super Bowl, though. I honestly don't think that they could have played any better than they did.
UNC is really solid. Johnson has been on an absolutely crazy streak the last few games and Paige is Paige. Both guys can flat out score.
Once Valentine is back at MSU they will be right back to winning games handily. He is that good.
Maryland and Duke are both very solid squads and I assume they both continue to get better.
At this point in the season I don't think that you can argue against KU being #1. Our two most talented freshman are going to get better and they are going to see more minutes and Svi is going to get more polished and we are going to be scary good. 2008 good. I truly think KU will be #1 most of the rest of the season.
@joeloveshawks which of those talented bb players do you think will go highest? Probably Simmons? Then who?
@Crimsonorblue22 Highest in the draft or highest in what they will achieve this year in college?
@joeloveshawks draft, other sounds good too.
@Crimsonorblue22 Simmons is really good and is the most NBA ready. I can't imagine he won't be the #1 pick in the draft. That said, LSU is not a great team. They are starting to play much much better and their win last night over Kentucky was really solid but they have 5 losses already and will probably have closer to 10 or more once it is all said and done. I don't see Simmons carrying them very far.
Valentine and Hield are obviously the keys to the post season success of their respective teams. If either of those guys get hurt the teams will totally fold. That is one of the things that I think separates KU from the others. Just incredible depth. If one of our guys tore an ACL tomorrow it would be awful but we are the best prepared team in the country for a guy to step in if needed.
OU and MSU both look like Final 4 teams to me if healthy but I am sticking to my assessment that KU is the team to beat for the rest of the year. Too many guys on our roster can carry the entire team on a given night.
@joeloveshawks I agree, but I would be a lil worried w/out Selden or Perry. Not something I want to think about! Lsu has gotten better, love the Simmons kid, but heard he was dirty the other pm.
I know there's still some buzz that UNC is a legit #1 team. Jay Bilas said something to that effect last night. I haven't had the opportunity to watch them play yet. Any thoughts on how they'd match up against KU and/or why some talking heads seem to think they're a better team?
@Crimsonorblue22 I'm thinking for sure Heild could absolutely hit 40 again easily, the guy is an animal vey very strong Canadite for POY and that's not saying we played bad D, and I'm saying that there is no way that cousins will havwe that type of game again to much in his favor. playing at home, playing KU, making up for the 1st game are you trying to tell me Cousins isn't good for 3 points?, and yes Wayne COULD get in foul trouble again, and Cousins has no trouble sharing the ball but yet just another 3 point shooter they have, that they DIDN'T have on this particular night
@JayHawkFanToo I understand what your sayin, but you tell me which of the Oklahoma players were above par? Certainly not Buddy, Woodard was right about spot on, maybe, maybe a little better, Spangler was right about he always is as he averages a double double, so who is it that plays a solid role in their rotation that played above par, the only one I saw was Cousins below par, Mickelson well below his average? and that is exactly where again he played way below par? Mason yes, ummm Mickelson - - - ummmm no. ROCK CHA;LK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 Buddy Hield averaged 2 point per shot against KU when his season average is 1.6 PPS. 46 points on 23 FGA is an above average performance no matter how you look at it.
Both teams played good defense in that game. Both teams average 1.2 points per possession and OU was right on that and KU was slightly below at 1.15. Both teams were below average on FG% and slightly above average on 3FG% and FT%. These are two elite teams that each played a very good game of basketball and may very well be the two best teams in the country and could potentially have 3 more games coming against each other.
@DinarHawk I think we could take them, however, this is one of the teams I would want to meet in the final weekend.
@jayballer54 Right. And Perry is certainly capable of scoring the 20 or so that equates to. I think we are saying the same thing.
I have not seen the 'Heels play this year, though I understand they are very good. The fact is at some point in the tourney you'll have to play really good teams. And not to dredge up our ignominious past in dealing with supposedly lesser squads in the tourney, but it seems our guys play much more focused when the lights are brighter, the opponent is better, and the stakes are higher. I also believe, in all sports, there are certain teams and players that just do better against particular teams regardless of the year or circumstances. I think Self is Roy's kryptonite and would welcome the match-up.
I'd prefer not to face them. I'd rather be behind them kicking their @$$es! In all honesty, if there were any justice in college basketball, UNC would be on double-secret probation for all the academic impropriety. How they dodged those charges is beyond me. Same for Boeheim at Syracuse.
LSU stated the season not at full strength; its #2 and #3 scorers Hornsby and Victor have played only in the last 6-7 games and since then they have lost only to Wake Forest. They will get better.
man, I don't know what's happened on this site. I can reply on others post's, but when I go to post a new post, it won't let me post. I click the new topic and it won't bring anything up. Does anyone know what might of happened here? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 said:
man, I don't know what's happened on this site. I can reply on others post's, but when I go to post a new post, it won't let me post. I click the new topic and it won't bring anything up. Does anyone know what might of happened here? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Dude you've maxed out your posting limit for the free site.
You must pay a high yearly fee to be able to post like @jaybate-1.0 and @HighEliteMajor.
Just kidding man. I have no idea. Just thought I'd have some fun today.
I think it is very clear that KU is the better team.
We won the game despite the other teams best player dropping an efficient 46. Good luck doing that again.
We have depth. Had this game been called by the refs like most games this season, OU would have had multiple players fouling out by the end of the first overtime. And who would they have brought in? They had 5 points off of the bench that game. That's it... We had 22. The refs not only made horrible calls taking the game out of the players hands, they held their whistles in more times than usual. OU averages 16.5 fouls per game. At the end of the 2nd half they were at 14. We could have used those extra 2.5 fouls. Not to mention, there was 9 minute stretch to close the first half and open the 2nd half that OU didn't have a single foul called. To say that is absurd doesn't even do it justice. That same 9 minutes, was the complete turnaround of the game, we were called for 4 fouls that allowed OU to shoot free throws during the same stretch. It was bologna and the NCAA/Big XII should honestly look into it. They played a quarter of the game and didn't "commit" a foul. Not a chance. 0% possible. It's crap.
In a fight that lasted all 12 rounds, we were the ones who came out standing. We took their best punches and still came out the victor. They shot the 3 ball at a better percentage than their season average. They blocked 12 shots (twice as many as they average) They played basketball better than they normally do and we still beat them.
I am probably more biased than the rest, but I can't wait for when we go to Norman and we leave no doubt about who the #1 team in the nation is.
Who's number 1 ?
Well, when I went to bed at 12:30 am Tuesday morning, I was under the impression that KU won the game. After reading a whole bunch of posts for the past couple of days, I think maybe we lost? Still, I go to ESPN and look at the score - it says we won. I'm confused.
I'm a Buddy lover too - but the bottom line is we won, we're still #1.
@joeloveshawks said:
If one of our guys tore an ACL tomorrow it would be awful but we are the best prepared team in the country for a guy to step in if needed.
It would be awful to lose any of our guys, and especially the big 4: Mason, Graham, Selden & Ellis. However, Perry is the one who is truly irreplaceable. We just don't have another Big who can score underneath reliably (and also step out). Maybe Bragg will get there, but he's still pretty green. Our hopes for a deep run in the tournament really rely on Ellis' ACLs remaining intact.
@JRyman that's not funny man- - - -just kidding, I don't know what the hell is going on. I don't know, I started to make a new post this morning it was going to let me, then my chair hit the power strip and my computer cord was plugged into it and lost all power to computer had to restart.I had started my heading to the new post when this happened I don't know if in my computers little brain it is waiting for me to finish that title before I can start another or what, but that's gone too, dam, dam dam lol ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@Lulufulu There can be only one #1, #2 and #3. These bleeding hearts that say teams played hard and earned the right to share are stupid. All night Dickie V kept calling for a #1 and #1a. Even if KU lost, they would be #2. This is why the game was so hyped. It determined #1 and #2. BBall is becoming a joke because of losers like Vitale.
I think OU had a great game. They didn't play flawless basketball but no team plays flawless basketball (not even Caipari's "perfect season" team).
It is human nature to see the greener grass on the other side of the fence.
On every play where OU scored, KU fans were in awe. "Wow, did you see that 3?"
But if we were OU fans, we would be in awe of Kansas.
There is no way for any of us to give an unbiased opinion. There is no way I can remove the crimson/blue glasses from my head. Like the rest of you, those glasses have been surgically implanted into my scalp at a very early age.
This is the most unbiased opinion I can give... take it for what it is worth... 2 cents or a kick on the backside.
I think OU has better scorers. Buddy is a prolific volume scorer... one of the best to come around in college basketball in a long, long time. He is surrounded by Woodard and Cousins... two very capable scorers and good trey shooters. Spangler rebounds well and has some scoring ability.
OU has become very good at driving and kicking. Dribble-drive offense the way it was meant to be used.... with multiple, quality trey shooters and drivers.
I was surprised at the quality of their defense against us, but I am still not overwhelmed.
I thought OU played very close to their ceiling, even with Spangler banged up and Cousins going 1-for-whatever. On any given night, chances are someone is going to be cold and someone is going to be playing with pain. Often, it is multiple players.
I didn't think KU played close enough to their ceiling. I thought some of our guys played a bit skeptically... meaning.... they didn't want to take chances of making a mistake so they didn't attempt to make certain plays. Playing not to lose. BTW: Wayne was NOT one of those players!
I think we have a huge advantage concerning depth. That doesn't mean we use that depth to our advantage during a game. I don't think we did in this one entirely. But looking at a season... I would hate to have so many games left without a deep bench. What are the chances no one on OU gets banged up badly between now and March? Very unlikely... especially since all their starters book mega minutes. And won't most of them show plenty of wear in March?
I think we have a huge advantage with potential future upside (during this season). Anything can happen, and maybe we don't improve much or even decline. But considering the entire package, I like our potential moving forward. Much more than what I see in OU. I believe they are close to hitting their ceiling now. How many times have we seen teams peak out in January and totally disappear in March? Uh... quite a few... in fact... that often describes Kansas!
The team that peaks in March, wins in March... and April!
I've said this countless times now... but OU has ZERO MARGIN FOR ERROR! Very little margin in games, and no margin ahead for March.
So for those who think OU deserves to be #1 today.... would you trade rosters with them?
No friggin' way!
@drgnslayr Exactly, what happens in the Tournament, when they have to play 2 games in 3 days. They can wear down without their offense.
OU wearing down makes sense... but in reality, maybe they won't. Some guys get tired easier than others. Some guys have various health issues from pushing too hard.
And some guys just play harder.
I was impressed with both teams in this game. Guys were all holding their knees on FTs.... everyone was tired... but the level of play stayed high. Both teams really wanted this game badly and because of that this game ended up being a true classic that won't be forgotten in a long, long time.
For all the D1 fans out there that watch other college basketball.... did you notice how often announcers referenced the KU-OU game?
Man... I've watched several games and I was constantly hearing stuff like... "this certainly isn't up to the KU-OU game..." (etc. etc.)
I wonder if some of the recruits we targeted and signed somewhere else are having second thoughts?
@drgnslayr I hope the recruits hear those comments..
It's about time there was some reverence for the B12. I guess it takes something special to break the ACC hypnotic trance.
And something else I hope they point out-- that this league is set up for true Round Robin, so everyone can pencil the date when KU goes to Norman. No scheduling bias to complain about here. When the B12 season is done, the champ has gone through a gauntlet unlike any other team in a major conference.
I just wish that was translating in to National Championships!
@drgnslayr Given that OU and ISU for that matter play 7 or 8 people who pushes the first team in practice? Having watched both teams in pre-conference games it doesn't appear that they play the small number because of shortening their rotations. They play a short bench because that is all that they have for good players. Vick hasn't played much so far, but he surely puts more pressure on Frank or Devonte in practice than those on the other benches. The same goes for Svi, Carlton, Cheick, Jamari, etc.
This is where our depth will pay off during the course of the season. When teams get to the tournament the timeouts are longer, there are generally more stoppages to see who knocked the ball out of bounds and so on. There is no reason to play as many people and a long bench is not of as much value. However, that long bench can be invaluable in the months leading up to the tournament.
@drgnslayr I completely understand your reasoning. All Im saying is that OU and KU are the best teams in Div 1. I dont think Id trade rosters at all but wouldnt it be fun to have Mason, Frank, Buddy and Selden?
