🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Seen a lot of chatter that Devonte isn't ready for the NBA. Lately I agreed because it certainly seemed like he was not giving his best effort out there. I've been hard on him this year because he should be more consistent and playing like the player we all know he is.

Yesterday was a sort of coming out for him. Made shots, aggressive offense, active defense and just was the jelly to masons peanut butter. That 1-2 punch was the deciding factor yesterday.

Hopefully we see some more of the Devonte we saw yesterday

@BeddieKU23 I'm not sure he's an NBA player either, marginal I suppose.

I think Devonte has a solid chance to make it in the NBA as a PG. Not sure why we don't give him those responsibilities now?

If any still don't know what responsibilities a PG has... go back to our game with Nova last year and pay attention to Ryan. No way Nova made it to the Final Four last year without him.

Graham will get a shot at the NBA. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick, but he'll get a shot.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Only if he continues to improve and brings his game to the level of late last season. As of now, he is not getting drafted.

@JayHawkFanToo Graham still has over half a season left.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I hope he does, he's a fun jayhawk!

@Texas-Hawk-10

I agree. I have posted the exact thing before.

Watching the game in person I thought we came out a little flat but DG and Frank did a much better job of keeping guys in front of them defensively. If TT hadn't hit 4 more 3s than they average and we sure up the glass on defense that's a 30 point game. I was just glad to see improvement, ik tech ain't great but they did just beat #7 WVU.

@BeddieKU23 If Mario Chalmers can do it, DG can too. He's got that fire in him. Just needs to bring it every night

Mario was better than DG and higher ranked coming out of HS. I wish DG and Frank could recreate the havoc RussRob and Mario created. That's my dream senario. Then DG can leave a national champion too.

@dylans Josh is better at jumping passing lanes than BRush, and Vick/Svi aren't slouches defensively. I think we can create the havoc we had with Mario/RussRob/BRush (and Sherron) with everyone picking up their defensive aggression and focus a little bit, If we can get Frank and Devonte healthy, it would be nice to see less of those guys minutes-wise, and when they're in, ask them to go 100% in spurts. I don't know that they can get healthy at this point, where that could happen. And I also think Frank is locked in on chasing the Wooden Award, which is more about points and being the floor general, which means staying on the court as much as possible.

I wonder how minutes usage looks over careers... lets see:

Mario:

2005–06 33 games 26mpg 2.7 spg

2006–07 38 games 29.2 mpg 2.6 spg

2007–08 39 games 30.0 mpg 2.5 spg

Robinson played 134 games (107 starts) while averaging 7.1 points, 2.6 rebounds, 3.7 assists and 1.8 steals in 24.8 minutes per game

Frank:

2013-14 16mpg .5 spg

2014-15 33.5mpg 1.4spg

2015-16 33.5mpg 1.3spg

2016-17 34.8mpg 1.3spg

Devonte:

2014-15 17.8 mpg .9spg

2015-16 32.6 mpg 1.4spg

2016-17 33.5 mpg 1.5spg

I don't recall Mario and RussRob having major injured stretches..(?) but I think the fact that Mario never played over 30mpg in a season and RussRob averaged 24.8mpg and Frank and Devonte have both averaged 33+ over the last couple seasons is a big deal.

I don't have the numbers on the rest of the guys, but I don't think that's necessary to make the case that had Self spread the minutes more on them over their college "careers" we might have been able to get more steals per game.

@approxinfinity frank and devonte are injured? When did this happen? What is injured?

@approxinfinity what would really have helped is if Greene would have stayed.

@HawkChamp by "get healthy" I mean theyre worn down, and playing conservatively defensively to avoid aggravation of recurrent stuff.

@approxinfinity ah ok. I thought I missed something. Thanks

@HawkChamp said:

@approxinfinity what would really have helped is if Greene would have stayed.

Funny guy :smile:

My wife brings up a good point too. What made Mario elite in spg wasnt just jumping passing lanes. It was poking the ball away with freakishly long arms. Frank and Devonte have regular arms by comparison. Josh is elite in the spg department though.

@approxinfinity not at all being humorous. You dont think that an additional perimeter player to give Frank and Devonte an extra two minutes of rest before a tv timeout would be nice? Plus he was a good rebounder and three point shooter. His attitude was his main problem

97 steals per season for Mario in his Soph and Jr. seasons.
50 for Frank. 55 and TBD (25 and counting) for Devonte.

They either aren't allowed the freedom or just aren't ball hawks. I wish they would figure out that playing D is fun as it leads to offense and frustrates the heck out of other teams. D travels too.

Inspite of this I like this years team just fine.

@dylans the thing is, you dont have to get 5 steals a game to play stifling lock down D. Keeping the other team from driving into the lane any time they want to is what our perimeter players need to focus on. Same problem as last year.

@dylans do you think steals are down in general due to the damn calls?

@HawkChamp Ah I thought you were joking b/c his D was weak; thought you were saying that he wouldn't get us any steals.

@HawkChamp

Good positional D is crucial, you're absolutely right, but SPGs are the devastating secret weapon. I think one begets the other. Establish rules of engagement, then violate them.

Getting steals can break an opponent. It's how we routinely ripped off 20-2 runs with that 2007-08 team. It violates rules of engagement. It makes people question their ability to assess and deal with you, their ability to function as basketball players.

@approxinfinity amen, That team knew when to gamble. They fed off of each other. This team is different though. I don't think they can get away with gambles as much. They also aren't as freakishly long.

@BeddieKU23

For the first time this season I decided to watch him closely to see what is injured. He's doing a great job of masking it, but....

It's one leg and it's a thigh. He drags it just trying slide to a pick. He really can't get over picks and that's probably why they have been doing so much switching. Probably a pulled groin tendon. Pretty sure it was the left leg, but can t recall for sure today. This explains why he gets up some jumping on the run going off his good leg, but barely clears floor other times.
.
Also, his left elbow is pretty clearly hyper extended so the opponent is massively over playing his right hand to make him go left with the injured left arm.

DG needs a witch doctor badly.

@jaybate-1.0 I would love for you to explain "pretty clearly hyper extended". "Pretty clearly" indicates a "no doubt about it, everyone agrees on it" idea or concept. It is normal for teams to force right handed guys left to make them prove they can be effective with it, as well as to force them outside of the lane, How often have we heard over the years from the announcers "They need to force him to go left". Yet after I watched it again I didn't see any blatant example of forcing Devonte to go left outside of the situations I just described. Before you said his elbow injury is the reason for his poor shooting. Now he has had some nice shooting games recently. I rewatched the game and don't see the things you are seeing. Please provide points of reference that clearly show and identify an injury,

@HawkChamp Jaybate stayed at a holiday inn!

See I knew this thread would bring out the mixed emotions about Devonte Graham and his future.

The way he played yesterday was more in line with what we expect from him . With how deep the draft is he's not likely to be a 1st round pick unless this team makes it far into March and he has some standout games.

Most of this fan-base (or at least it seemed the majority) thought Diallo, Greene, & Selden weren't ready last year and yet they are not here anymore are they? No guarantee's for any of them, just a dream and they all took it. Whatever our opinion of him for the NBA means nothing really, he either stays or goes. He's going to be 22 soon in a league that de-values age.. His time is ticking now.

Regardless this thread was to give him some kudos for having a strong game yesterday. Tuesday we go to Oklahoma where he had arguably his best game of his career last year. We'll see if he can continue giving this team what it needs. When he is playing at a high level there isn't many teams that can beat this KU squad

@BeddieKU23

Close your eyes.

Kick back.

Dream basketball.

Envision Devonte bringing up the ball, assessing the defense, controlling the tempo, calling out signals, pointing fingers and starting the offense. All his theatrics in use every play.

That's what I want to see. And that is his ticket to the big league. And that is one huge asset we are missing out on because we don't have someone specifically in charge. No definite leadership. I fear it is going to cost us again this year. The old words of "leading by committee" and "he leads by his actions" are just excuses for not having a real leader. Someone needs to stand up on this team and lead it. Devonte is the right guy to do it. It is in his DNA.

I fear another lost March. I fear everyone pointing fingers in the wrong places; a bad ref call, cold shooting, turnovers....

There are so few teams that really have a leader. It was enough to take WSU to the Final Four a few years ago with all their juco players.

@drgnslayr you might be right about the team not having a leader. You mentioned common symptoms of a March loss - bad calls cant be controlled but our play should not be determined by the zebras. Turnovers and missed shots can certainly hurt even if we dont have a leader or floor general.

Most of Devonte's issue is plain standing around and being a spectator. This team is so much better when he is active and looking to make plays.

Does not having a vocal leader affect how we play in March? Probably. But if Devonte decides he doesnt want to be that guy or is unaware of the importance of such a person and that he is the man for the job, then there isnt anything anyone can do about that. We just have to hope that everyone on the team is locked in to what they need to do and accomplish. That is the only thing that can counteract the lack of a floor leader.

@HawkChamp

Are you fecal mattering me? Of course you are. All they did was give him his left the whole second half.

Why the flip does one wear lingerie on one's left elbow, but not on one's right? Do elbow pads really require coverage from arm pit to mid forearm? I don't think so. Wait! Maybe one wears it on one's left instead of one's right, because one has asymmetric circulation and one is trying to balance out the blood flow to each arm. Hmmm, seems a long shot. Do you think its fun to wear that lingerie? I suspect you don't wear it if you don't need it for some significant and often acute issue. I doubt the guys wear it because they are superstitious, but I suppose anything is possible. Protection against bug bites? Maybe, if the KSU experimental labs have unleashed a new Goliath winter mosquito, but again, that seems to stretch credulity a bit. I'm going to sit tight with my recollection here. I'm not watching the TTech game again and marking the time, because you can't see it. If you watched the second half, it was an every possession thing; that's what I saw every possession. If you didn't, then me marking every possession isn't going to change much is it?

Next, let's now proceed back down to the leg. Watch the guy walk and slide the second half. He walks like one leg is longer than the other during close ups during breaks in play. Watch him when he walks to the bench for a time out, or to the foul line. Do you recall that last season? I don't. Why does someone walk like one leg is a little longer than the other? There are a number of possible reasons. He could be trying to fool jaybate 1.0 into thinking he is injured, but that seems a stretch to me. The most likely reason is he is wearing an orthotic in one shoe and not the other. You can cover up the gimp from the lingerie, by gutting it out. It only shows when you are sliding hard to the direction your weak leg is leading toward. And even then you can do a pretty good job of concealing it, if the coach lets you switch off a lot of the time. But one leg longer than the other? Ah, now that's something the shoe itself. Once in awhile it can be a disk compressed asymmetrically and/or some arthritis in an irritated joint; that results in a little hitch in the git-along, too.

But for the love of all that is logical, the guy that last year was one of the most explosive guards I've seen at KU, now struggles to clear the floor, shoots those 3-inch hop sets shots that all other KU guards shoot when they get bad wheels, and you want to argue over whether a guys left arm is hurt when he is wearing lingerie on it? Good lord, what does he need to do? Wear high viz yellow lingerie with a red cross arm patch and a head band with ketchup on it?

I feel like I'm mastering the obvious here regarding DG.

Are you one of those that was sure Landen had magically forgotten how to play the post after running a string of double doubles down the stretch, or did you put two and tow together and say, "Hey, Self is under-reporting again! Landen doesn't just have a sore foot. Why, Landen is wearing a boot and on top of that Landen can barely raise his arms over his head. Hey, Landen must have TWO injuries and Self is masking the injury for the ten thousandth time at KU!"

!images.jpeg ↗

Hey, this isn't pulling teeth.

This is just watching people walk, watching the way defenders guard them, watching how high they jump most of the time, compare it to the prior year when they were supposedly healthy and explosive, and compare shooting percentages and scoring last year and this year, during the same recent stretch that Devonte's game has fallen off.

@Crimsonorblue22

And cut in on Fred Astaire to dance with Marjorie Reynolds, or was it Virginia Dale?

Damn, I wish I had lived back then. I would have cut a mean flipping rug with women that could dance like that.

@drgnslayr

I'm very confident on reading injuries in players.

I'm very confident in you on reading leadership issues in teams.

But I've gotta say that I don't see a leadership issue on the team.

What I see is the injury wipe out of Doke and the de-hab (instead of re-hab) of Coleby; this wipes out KU's ability to get big and stay big inside at 4 and 5, which Self was clearly planning to be able to do, even with his emphasis on 4-1. There are lots of teams where the matchup calls for going big for big at the 4 and 5, as well stressing the opponent's twin bigs with small ball for stretches. Now Self cannot go big at 4 and 5 except for brief stints. Now Self has to get Josh Jackson a lot of work against big 4s ASAP. As a result, everyone is feeding Josh and standing around while he learns to player 4-1 against a prison body 4. Self is using this 4 game stretch against what I call "Carp" opponents--the bottom feeders that will finish 6th and below, to really give Josh some work in the games. Frank and Devonte are just being asked to do enough to keep us from losing games to the Carp, while Josh figures out how to score and guard and board against prison body 4s. This makes Frank and Devonte appear a lot less energetic and sharp. Down the stretch of the TTech game, Self was clearly ordering Frank and Devonte to let Josh practice dribbling across the midcourt and getting the feel of starting the chops right and chops left. The only thing Self isn't preparing Josh for is subbing for Self as head coach on the nights Self has the flu.

Next, Self is non-reporting Devonte's injury riddled body. The guy walks like one leg is shorter than the other. The guy can't get over a screen on a slide right to left. The guy switches in an obviously un-Selfian way (i.e., no Self team switches against Carp teams; that is unheard of). The guy doesn't pressure on-ball like he used to do. The guy doesn't get up like he used to. The guy is shooting half the percentages he used to shoot, and even vs. TTech when he shoots it a little better because he starts taking the 3" hopping jump shot that KU's perimeter guys resort to when playing injured, DG still didn't look sharp. Further, the guy isn't an ambidextrous threat as he used to be. Defenders are putting a flipping dressage saddle on his right hand and riding it to force DG to his left and DG isn't making them pay, as he used to, when they over played him either way.

Next, Self has decided he has to get Vick a lot of work, because DG could go down at any minute, Svi still doesn't seem consistent in his shooting, and because he basically is moving Josh to the 4 for most of the game. That in turn means that Self has to get Svi some work against prison bodies at the 4, because there will be games when Josh gets fouled up and Svi will have to log significant minutes vs. the PB4s.

I think the issue above, plus dead legs from heavy practicing for a couple games prior to TTech, explain the team's lackluster play recently, after a stretch of the best play I have seen a KU team string together in several years.

I expect Frank can reassert and lead decisively, when asked.

It appears Devonte can to, if he were to get a leg and arm healthy.

I'm pretty optimistic about Josh being able to master this force feed learning.

I feel like Vick can step it up a little.

Landen is manning up to his starting 5 role, and Bragg for the first time this game made me think he will start getting it done 3-4 games from now.

What does all of this mean? It means one heck of a lot is hanging on DG getting well and Josh learning to love playing prison body 4s.

As I said, I have some optimism about Josh.

But regarding DG, this little voice in the back of my noggin keeps saying, "Self never totally non-reports someone, unless Self is sure the player won't get well any time during the season." Tyrel Reed during his last KU season comes to mind. Reed played operable and un-reported much of his last season, because Self HAD to play him. I fear we are in that predicament again with DG. He is too important not to play. But it may appear to Self that DG isn't going to get well. So: he appears to have to play through unreported.

Bad news, if it were to prove true.

@jaybate-1.0 I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

@HawkChamp

For now, and then DG will resolve this in your favor, or mine, as the season wears on.

Rock Chalk to you.

I could be way out in left field here, but I wonder if Devonte isn't trying to help Frank get NPOY or first-team All-American? He seems to want to defer a little bit.

Hopefully all fiction, no malice

@jaybate-1.0 He's hurt. Yet, he's the missing link- he is what makes us elite when he is 100%.

@dylans said:

Hopefully all fiction, no malice.

@jaybate-1.0 hasn't used this phrase in months, I believe, and perhaps since last season! So, does that mean he is now posting only non-fiction? Or that he posts with malice?

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

@drgnslayr

Are we not considering Frank our leader? he's doing an excellent job of running the team and scoring in my opinion.

Lately this team isn't running many sets that require the PG to break down the defense in order to set up a play. I see a lot of weave action and dribble drive motion going on where our 5 guards are making a play or dumping it in the lane. I don't know if you agree but our offense hasn't looked that difficult to defend in theory it's just the guys are so good at scoring that we are getting the advantage from our players just being better then the opponent.

I like the idea that Devonte would be our leader, but why hasn't he assumed the role if it's there to take? Deferring? Maybe he feels that with Frank being the senior he's content being the co-leader. If he wanted that role full time he could have it by coming back next year.

As far as your fear of losing in March, we all have it and I'm not sure what my specific fear is at this point but it more lies in foul trouble especially Josh and our inability to get enough production in the post to balance out our 5 guard attack. I'm afraid a team will scheme to bait us into feeding the post more than we need to and lose sight of our strength.

Good discussion!

There a nice article on KU sports about DG

@BeddieKU23

Frank is amazing. I think he leads by example.

I just believe we need someone demonstrative. Frank shows zero of that. He hardly even cracks a smile after a big play.

It is about communication. When your guys are softening up you give them a demonstrative kick.

I don't see us winning in March without that. Visible leadership. An icon.

I don't want this to seem like a bash on Frank. I adore Frank's play. Everything except the demonstrative part. Even Bill makes fun about him having a stone face.

The game is still largely about emotion. We only have to look back to last year and see the proof with Villanova. They are well-coached.... but what pushed them over the edge was their emotions. Playing with the right level of emotion that kept them in the groove.

@drgnslayr ll showed some leadership skills by standing up for Frank. I think DG is a leader among the guards.

@jaybate-1.0 Why is everyone always perpetually hurt?

Maybe your just a glass half empty kind of guy.

Look people get nicked up during a season, its sports.

When I stub my toe in the morning and hop one foot and then favor my tender toesie throughout the day, does that mean I am injured?
There is nothing structurally damaged with my toe, but its sore, no biggie, I'll get over it.

I think its kind of comical the way you look for injuries. During the last game Devonte had maybe one of his most athletic dunks of the year. He GOT UP! He had so much air that he didn't have to use two hands to dunk it. He switched it to one hand, cocked it back and then threw it down with authority.

People are rarely in 100% health throughout the season. This does not mean they have serious injuries. That is why grit and toughness is important in sports. It allows people to play threw the pain and perform even when they are sore that day. Look I am not denying that people get injured, but I would never sit back on my couch and causally act like i am the team doctor making my diagnoses from watching them on TV.

If I was to look into my magic crystal orb, I would see Devonte playing the next game, and the next game and the games in March and games in the NBA. I really don't see the value in your persistent fear mongering of injuries on every player every season. It would be nice to find out who in your eyes is not injured?

Its good thing you didn't own race horses. I imagine everyone of them that lost would have been led behind the barn and put out of their misery.

@Crimsonorblue22

And maybe this all needs to develop "organically." Maybe this is all just a process that will finalize with Devonte becoming more animated and communicating with his teammates.

I hate it when we lose. But maybe we need a loss or two and more struggle to find ways of becoming better.

I think this team has toughness... has the skills... has the pieces needed for March. I think we just need to create the right synergy to handle any situation (like coming from behind on the road).

If Devonte was on any other team but Kansas most of us wouldn't be able to stand him. The guy takes some god awful shots, misses a ton, and when he makes one he runs around like he is a world beater. He is also typical of an immature player where his defensive intensity only picks up after a good offensive play.

@RockChalkRedlock Your last big contribution on a similar topic was a couple of months ago when you also were not willing to attribute Landen's difficulties to an injury. You thought his boot was irrelevant. You said nothing when his oblique injury was revealed.

You called LL a "liability" and hoped we would not rely much on him. Any further thoughts, or do you concede that sometimes injuries do hamper players?

Now, I am not agreeing with @jaybate-1.0 here as to a major impediment. I just think DG was banged up and has come through it mostly. Remember how many times he was on the sideline working out cramps? Limping after that major knee-knock a couple weeks ago?

@RockChalkRedlock

Good post.

"People are rarely in 100% health throughout the season."

I'd probably go further and say NO ONE is 100% healthy at this level of competition throughout the season. Not even walk-ons.

Playing "hurt" is part of the game. By the end of our season pretty much all our guys will need a break to heal.

One big issue is that players compound the number of "injuries" in their bodies throughout the year and having so many can debilitate their performance when it counts most, in March. We've seen this in Frank in past years.

Our largest concerned area now is with our post guys. We can't really afford to lose Landen or Carlton.

There is no question (concerning Devonte) that he has been dealing with a few issues this year relating to his health. Probably his biggest issue is cramping. That is a serious issue. Sensitivity to cramping relates to both lifestyle and genetics. Certain players are more-likely than others to face the problems of cramping. Devonte may be one of those players because it has been happening in a pattern.

This is something that should be addressed with a sports physician and probably a dietician. I'm not certain, but I think there was a blurp out there from our basketball program mentioning Devonte being treated for this in hopes to prevent further issues. If anyone knows, please post it.

@mayjay ll admitted he got sick of the boot and quit wearing it and then he was fine. He walked all over the island w/it. Mental for him. The oblique strain was strange to me, injured one game fine the next. DG on the knee knock, knee hurts bad at the time but usually not a game changer. DG seems to have the cramps under control, they are playing high minutes especially if jj and Svi get in foul trouble. I guess we'll find out if they have surgery after the season.

@BigBad I love DG!

@drgnslayr

I think we have seen a more emotional frank this year then at any point in his 4 years. Last year we had a quiet leader in Perry, this year we have stone face frank. But the guys around frank this year are an emotional bunch especially Josh and Devonte who can help this team get where it needs to go. We won't know what emotions we will get from Frank until the games are here. I know we are already starting to shift our thoughts to the tourney and we still have 15 conference games to go. It's clear the evolution of this team isnt nearly complete which is a great thing.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think the oblique strain completely explained LL's inability to get his arms up for, and to hold onto, passes above his waist. He couldn't finish at the rim. Now he can. His foot seems better--he wasn't jumping, and now he is.

And all muscle strain and soft tissue injuries result in varying levels of pain, and inconsistent ability to perform. Anyone with a quadriceps or hamstring pull knows that! I had a shoulder separation years ago. Some days I could not raise my arm, on other days I was playing squash. (Until the orthopod told me to knock it off.)

@mayjay he recovered in less than a week

@mayjay Thanks for being the message board watch dog.

I am glad my comments had such a lasting impact they needed to be referenced.

I will stand behind my comments because they were relevant. My biggest concern regarding Landen has nothing to do with his legs or obliques; its his hands. He has struggled with shooting and also securing the ball when he is in the paint; the ball gets poked out a lot. Its never really been injuries that has held him back, that's just an easy scapegoat for games he under performs. What I said was justified and two months ago fans did have concern, but with the injury to Azubuike that changed everything. Really Azubuike's injury was just what Landen needed. The team has such a short bench on big men that Landen had to pick up his game. He has responded big time and I couldn't be more delighted to see him play with that fire we didn't see at the start of the season.

Attitude is everything, it is the real difference maker, not sore obliques, nagging cramps, or bone bruises. Because Devonte hasn't been locked in a few games doesn't scream injury. Do you remember Wiggins biggest flaw his one season here? It was his lack of focus to stay plugged in on offense. That was not because of physical injuries, it was mental. Look at him now. A few years has past and he is doing great in the NBA because he has improved that aspect of his game.

Devonte just needs Focus, not a Physician.

@RockChalkRedlock said:

Devonte just needs Focus

I will agree with you--example being focus was clearly an issue on the 10 second call. He would have taken at least 12 seconds to get over the line at the pace he was at.

I wasn't censuring you on LL, just looking to see if over time your conclusion about LL's value had changed once injuries were known. I was willing to go with the coach's explanation that he was hampered by injuries early on. Apparently you were not.

@BeddieKU23

And these are just my opinions...

I can't say I totally understand the chemistry on this team. It may work out fine. But from a historic perspective, I think it is extremely valuable to have someone loud and demonstrative calling the shots as a leader and staying on guys to perform at their best.

Not even tackling our struggles on defense.... Looking at offense, I think we are in for a huge reality check soon. I think we have been masking the overall health of our offense because we have such stud scorers that have continually bailed us out.

Look at our assist numbers. They are okay, but more or less middle of the pack type numbers. If you look at the volume of scoring we are putting up, our assist numbers should be much higher. I don't take that as a complete negative though, because in past years I sometimes thought our offense had too many assists. We were too "team offense" oriented, creating a crutch of individual players to push their limits in an alpha-dog situation of one-on-one.

Now we have several players not afraid to take their man on in order to score. But are we also masking inefficiencies in our offense? I think so. It will come out when we finally play a tougher opponent... some day.

We definitely did not play with dominance in our first 3 games.

@mayjay

I still kind of wonder if Devonte has lifestyle issues negatively impacting his court performances.

I wonder if he is eating/drinking properly, and sleeping right, too.

That can easily explain his issues with leg cramps. That is just the first sign. If his physical status is lower, good chance it is impacting his mental side, too... (ie focus)

@jaybate-1.0 He wore that same thing last year. Guys at the freaking rec wear them. It looks "cool" and it feel comfortable to wear the "lingerie." He even wore the damn arm band all the way back at Brewster on his left arm. TRob wore them on both arms. Doubt he did it because he hyper extended both elbows.

http://www.collegehoophits.com/blog/devonte-graham-is-a-jayhawk ↗

Let's be real. He is scoring more PPG. Has more SPG. Has more ASP. Is shooting a better percentage from the floor even though he is taking more shots and shooting worse from 3. A better percentage from free throw line. And he is still shooting a very respectable 38% from the arc. DG is healthy.

I think I put Devonte at a higher standard than most fans do.

I expect total greatness from Devonte every game. I see him as the overall most-gifted player we have.

But I get frustrated with him just like I did with Wayne Selden. Wayne just seemed to be too laid back most of the time and would just kick in the afterburners for certain games or certain situations. There was no way to count on that and often, in big games, it wasn't there. That is not the right recipe for winning out in March.

@Kcmatt7 exactly. It felt like a wild goose chase for injuries. Nothing is wrong with him

@RockChalkRedlock excellent example of Devontes dunk. He is fine

@jaybate-1.0

"But I’ve gotta say that I don’t see a leadership issue on the team."

So in March, when we are down by 8 with 3 minutes left in the game, do you see a player stepping up and giving the entire team a pep rally?

I don't think we need a babysitter at PG. But I know how valuable it is to have someone out there leading, directing, motivating, pushing the right tempo.

Actually... just thinking of the last item, tempo, we are already lacking leadership to try to control tempo. Even Fran has been mentioning it about our games. We are playing home games against inferior competition and we let them control tempo. That is a leadership issue.

@drgnslayr I think in March if the team needs a come-to-Jesus meeting, seniors Frank and Landen will definitely step right up. And it will have far more impact because they are not the constant talkers now.

@mayjay great point. We saw the senior leadership of the Arch and Ochefu last year. We need that this year and we need Devonte to step up and not be a spectator like what he normally does.

@et al,

My prediction remains: once Self spends the next two games versus weak opponents giving Josh as much work on scoring and running the offense as he can, the team we saw earlier this season run efficiently and authoritatively by Frank Mason.

FRANK IS APPARENTLY THE MOST EXPERIENCED AND SKILLED POINT GUARD RUNNING A TOP 5 team in D1.

Frank will drive the car.

The looming question is: will Devonte's injuries sideline him and force Vick into a role requiring sudden productivity.

@mayjay

Oh, yes, I've been using the line quite a bit. Alas, the mind control techniques of the election used by both candidates, plus the USA national security state, plus the national security states of Russia, China and Israel, have just destroyed your and everyone else's senses of time!!!

@Kcmatt7

9 times out of 10 I'm right about the injuries.

Read the season stats to reassure yourself that his recent stats don't matter.

I can wait.

@RockChalkRedlock,

It is hilarious how people get stressed out by talk of injuries. It forces them to think and thinking hurts almost as much as injuries!

I never think about injuries until a guy who has proved he can do it suddenly stops doing it and keeps not getting it done.

It's scary to think about injuries, because it raises a lot of uncertainty and fans hate uncertainty!

You're so annoyed right now you can't even remember that many, many injuries occur EVERY season. Having Landen, Devonte and Doke injured is just about par for the course. And you can bet there are more guys "nicked up" we don't recognize...yet.

Your whining at me about me mentioning injuries suggests how much denial about injuries you employ to get through seasons.

Don't worry about talking about the injuries. They happen and often and masking them and getting guys to "play through" is one of Self's great abilities.

All sports at a high level involve lots of injuries.

@jaybate-1.0 While mind control is fun, my lack of recall just might have had more to do with Rose Mary Woods' erasure of 9 months of KUBuckets data....:cry:

@mayjay

I will guess the younger posters have no clue who RoseMary Woods was...😉

@jaybate-1.0 of course, when you attribute everything to injuries you are bound to get a couple right.

Dude, we all know guys get nicked up. I did too as a player. Even Captain Obvious knows that.

No one is getting stressed out. What we can't understand is why you don't provide specific instances to prove your point about something as specific as a "pretty clearly hyperextended elbow". If you see something, give us a minute marker.

No one minds you suggesting it is an injury. Again, the problem is no one else sees what you see and when we ask for proof, you say we are mad and upset. You clearly avoid providing evidence. I won't believe it just because someone says it.

Has anyone else noticed that coach Self has been sitting for longer periods at a time during games? Since I recently endured similar problems, I wonder if he has a corn on his foot. Makes you wonder.

@drgnslayr !1-UVtnFTKjE5yiUCSlOnqF9Q.jpeg ↗ NO-EMOTION?

@autohawk Strained vocal cords.

@HawkChamp

Ooh, I like the apparent Over Generalization 101 approach. It's like you're dusting off site destabilization and thread redirect. I thought the site had moved on from those bad old days.

Example 1: lead with false premise of ridiculous overgeneralization by @HawkChamp

"of course, when you attribute everything to injuries you are bound to get a couple right."

You've been watching too much MSM.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, right?

Next.

@KUSTEVE

DG IS CRUCIAL TO RING PURSUIT. AGREED.

That's why I'm making such an issue of his possible injury. We've got to get him back to health for our team to be what it can be.

Even with Doke out for the season, Self has a chance to baling wire the inside, if he can start maybe the best scoring, non-long-stack perimeter since Mike Bibby's UA ring team,

I can't say they are better overall than the '08 KU ring team perimeter, because that bunch was too good at too many things, but your optimism about this year's bunch has certainly been vindicated.

This year's four deep rotation outside, when everyone is healthy, is special!!!

@autohawk Has anyone else noticed that Self has gained a lot of weight?

@Kcmatt7

"He wore that same thing last year"

I'll play take what you give me. Chronic injury that compounds in limiting effect with a new leg injury.

I've had had chronic injuries and multiple injuries, where I can mask well with the first, but the combination of it with another tipped my performance down a slippery slope.

Really, I don't understand these blinders about injury hampering performance. It happens most every season to some players for a few games or entire seasons.

Physical injuries appear much more empirical drivers of decreasing performance in many cases than all this psychological mumbo jumbo and statistical randomness hooey injury deniers resort to IMHO.

@drgnslayr

I happen to agree with your opinions. I think this team is still trying to find its identity. At 14-1 we still have the chance to hit the next level while some teams might have already hit theirs and won't be able to sustain it by the end of the year. We are now 4 games without Doke, I bet after 10-15 games we will really start to see what we are made of. At that point we should know whether we are the team to beat in the tournament or we'll rely on some luck and favorable matchup's to get to the Final 4. I love this team though, I love the 4 guard attack and having a super duper freshman that just gets it.

@jaybate-1.0 "Take what you give me." Did you click the link? He wore the arm band all the way back in high school. On his left arm... That ain't chronic. It's just a fashionable thing. Guys that wear headbands don't wear them because they have concussions. Carlton doesn't wear his pants all the way up because he has a hip injury and the extra padding from him rolling his pants up prevents his hips from hurting. Give the elbow up. Maybe a leg. But still, doubtful. Especially given his conference stats are 14.6 ppg and 5.6 apg.

Is it not more realistic that teams have moved him up the priority list? And that we have also increased his usage? Resulting in performances that look less than stellar yet still creating career highs. Last season he was the 3rd or 4th scoring option depending on who was on the floor. This season he is the 2nd or 3rd with instances of him being #1 for a few minutes a game. So instead of drawing the 3rd, 4th and 5th best perimeter defenders on a team he is being guarded by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best perimeter defenders.

Higher usage+better defense= Off nights. Happens to all players.

I think Devonte will have another big game tonight. He liked Norman last year. Let's see if he can score close to 20 again..

@jaybate-1.0 "It is hilarious how people get stressed out by talk of injuries."

Isn't this statement for you. I literally have no stress over injuries. None. You are looking for phantom injuries, that way Jaybate can perpetually be right. If the Jayhawks ever come up short, all wise jaybate knew the whole time. Its never provable, but you can give yourself credit eveytime.

I'm sorry I'm calling you out on it, but its becoming an annual pattern. Each season every year. I know there are a lot of posters that roll their eyes when you make your medical generalizations. I'm not just "whining" about you because I'm in denial, there is no denial involved in something you can't prove. Actions speak louder than words. That's what I base my argument on, Devontes literal live in game actions.

Not sure if you listen to the games on the radio or you need a new HDMI cord. Last game Devonte went so high in the air to dunk the ball his elbow may have been above the rim! In all of Devonte's years at KU he has never looked more athletic. How can you deny this?

Also wearing any sleeves or compression leggings is also irrelevant. They may be useful, but that gear is fashionable for people in today's sports. I thought you were the Nike/ sports gear expert. Under Armor started this fad and now Nike and Addias jumped on the band wagon as well. They all make and promote this gear. Heck the majority of it is worn by middle and high school kids. Guess how many of those kids are injured or even need to wear it. I think perhaps you might not be aware of this reality, so I'll give you a pass. Seriously go any AAU function or heck walk through any middle school hallway, the amount of leggings and sleeves could be measured in tonnage.

Gosh. Just remember everyone sees things thru their own filter. We can all have our theories. Let that variety add richnnes to these threads...

@BeddieKU23

And we do want to be surging upwards at the end of the year. Peaking early is not the right thing, but is this team capable of peaking this year anyways? I guess another injury could make it hard for us to come up to where we are before the injury.

It is hard to say what we would become (moving forward) if we still had Doke. We have to just stay focused on the positive, and there is plenty to be positive about with this team!

I'm with you... I love this team and I love the 4-guard attack!

I think we have crazy potential to lift up to a much higher level. Most of it will just require energy and leadership. We already know these guys are capable of locking down on defense. And we know they are capable on offense....

@wrwlumpy

"Has anyone else noticed that Self has gained a lot of weight?"

I think he put on some holiday weight.

I saw him a couple of months ago and he looked great! He had definitely lost weight and looked to be in good health. He wasn't breathing heavy like I have seen him do in the past.

I've also noticed he seems to be really into the game this year. He's standing and pacing in the bench area during games. And I think he is a bit more vocal during games, too. He clearly enjoys coaching this group...

@Kcmatt7 said:

It’s just a fashionable thing.

How shall I put this?

This IDS must be a female dog.

It propels often sensible aliases into saying the darnedest things to keep their anti-injury narrative intact.

Hmmm. There's just no way to sugar coat this.

That is the MOST astonishing, essentially ridiculous, assertion you have made to moi yet on this subject. And I mean "ridiculous" as an accurate adjective, not as an epithet. I have no intent to insult you here. Its just that your assertion appears pretty far out i the left tail of the normal distribution of probability, and so ridiculous appears apt.

Something cannot be considered fashionable, when few, if any, persons do it for fashion, right? I actually can't think of a single player that has ever claimed to wear elbow lingerie, "because it is fashionable." Not one. You like to ask for quotes, so I will take what you give me. Could you post a link to a quote by a D1 basketball player that says he wears elbow lingerie because it is fashionable? I don't know. I just don't recall such a quote. I also don't recall any announcer ever saying, "Wow, Jay, a lot of these kids are wearing these elbow hyperextension protection sleeves for fashion, aren't they?" Do you recall anyone saying that on TV?

And just because you "say" you have observed some kid in some gym somewhere in god's creation beyond D1 wearing elbow lingerie does not make it a fashion in D1, does it? I mean, the kid could have been injured, right? No, wait, you don't like for players to be injured. Its part of IDS, right? Hmm. Lemme see. How about this: he could have been wearing an elbow pad in elbow lingerie to protect his elbow right? Protection is okay, isn't it? That doesn't threaten the IDS, does it? Or he might have kept a stash of change for the soft drink machine in the hollowed out elbow pad, right? Or a key to his front door, maybe?

I mean you do understand that the arm band Graham is wearing is developed for medical purposes, right? You don't question that to sustain this apparent illusion of your IDS, do you?

The arm band is designed to protect an elbow hyper extension, right? The version with an elbow pad is also designed to protect an elbow joint from further impacts, right? I mean you are still able to distinguish medical function in this elastic fabric device for the 'bow, correctomundo?

There is a difference between elbow lingerie and, say, wrist bands, or head bands, right? The last two are just to manage perspiration, right? You don't consider perspiration an "injury," right? A person doesn't have to be protected from the injury of perspiration, right? I mean a floor has to be swept and towelled to prevent slip and fall, which might lead to injury, but you perceive that players wear wrist bands and head bands to manage perspiration. In turn, you see that turning wrist bands and head bands into fashion statements is a little more likely than turning arm straps into fashion statements, affirmativo?

I have worn one of those sleeves for a short while, and I have worn sweat bands on my wrists. I quit wearing the sleeve as soon as I could. Didn't like it. The bands on my wrists I could take or leave. I wore them when my pals wore them as a fashion statement briefly, then moved on. But wearing a sleeve as a fashion statement? Since high school, when you are an upper classman? Man, that is some dedication to fashion. Or you gotta be kidding me, right?

Do you think these players are wearing these knee braces and ankle boots and heel cups and orthotics for fashion statements, too? Hey, man, if only you could see my heel cup inside my tube socks. I put a transfer of Kate Perry on the inside of my heel cup. It is bitchin' fashionable, dude."

If the answer to that question were yes, then it might appear that you have moved beyond IDS to something more acute.

Aw, what the heck?! I've just been having some fun with you here. You feel pretty strongly about this issue of there being no injuries to Devonte, and this whole sleeve-as-fashion thing. Let's go with it.

D1 players that wear elbow sleeves, knee braces, ankle boots, heel cups, orthotics, and hockey masks are doing it mostly for fashion, especially any that have worn them since high school.

Ahem.

I feel a little weird writing it though.

But I'm on your team and if this is the glue you need, then this is the glue you get.

@RockChalkRedlock said:

Isn’t this statement for you.

No.

@drgnslayr

Seriously, Self wears elbow lingerie under his long sleeve shirts with his suits, because it is, eh, fashionable.

@jaybate-1.0

I'm trying to imagine.... no wait... no I'm not!

If we can just kill Jay Bilas' crusade against contact, we can start wearing helmets in games.

@drgnslayr

Howling!!!!!!

@jaybate-1.0

OMG! I almost forgot to tell you. I was in a thrift store recently in a somewhat tough neighborhood, and saw a t-shirt on a kid that made me think instantly of you.

The T-shirt was grey with a front on view on the chest of a black hoop with dark grey chain net with one side of the net having broken links and hanging down a little lower. The topper was bright red blood was running down that right side of net and dripping all the way down the front of the T-shirt. It was the greatest T-shirt I have ever seen by quite considerable margin. I had to use the restroom, and when I got back the kid had left. Damn, it was a beautiful idea!!!

@ralster

Now that is a PICTURE!!!!!

I'm sooooooo hoping Frank takes the L by storm the way Steve Nash did.

Nash really didn't play all that fast at Santa Clara in college. I saw him play two games and I really doubted he could make it in the NBA.

Frank is just Tiny Archibald and Steve Nash rolled together when it comes to the after burner.

I really hope that he gets the right opportunity in the NBA, because he could really get an NBA team flying up and down the floor.

@jaybate-1.0 I'm sorry to keep hounding you, but I'm just trying to give a new perspective on sleeve/legging reality. Disclaimer is that I understand players in D1 sports use these these for medical reasons. I understand they help people prevent injuries, I understand this. The thing is the majority of people wearing these will not fall apart if they take them off.

I think what kcmatt7 was pointing out is that people are wearing these for fashion and not function. Kids today sports idols wear them and they want to be like Mike! Its why Air Jordan's are popular, its why anything is popular. Take my word, seriously. I have seen what thousands of teens wear and it this is a reality. Don't believe me, go look for yourself.

!128-color-arm-compression-sports-sleeves.jpg ↗

@jaybate-1.0 I'm done with your nonsense.

!sleeves.jpg ↗

"Allen Iverson began using a basketball sleeve during the 2000-01 season due to bursitis in his right elbow. Afterward, fans wore the sleeve as a fashion statement, and by 2008, the sleeves were the most popular non-apparel items sold by the league, according to an NBA Store spokesperson. Other players, including Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Dwyane Wade, Paul George, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James[2] have worn the sleeves as well.

Iverson continued wearing his basketball sleeve long after his elbow had healed, which led Steven Kotler of Psychology Today to suggest that the sleeve may act as a placebo to prevent future injuries. Basketball sleeves are also sometimes referred to as basketball shooting sleeves. Some players believe the mild compression they provide helps keep their shooting arm warm and improves circulation. Although some studies show improved circulation and reduced soreness, there has been no definitive study on the use of basketball sleeves."

"Medical necessity quickly turned into fashion accessory. “We used the stockinette to help Allen get through sore days,” Currier told me. “But as you know with Allen, once the other players started seeing him wearing it, they all followed his lead.” A few months after Iverson débuted the repurposed compression stockinette, a nascent sportswear company called Under Armour contacted Currier and asked if Iverson might try on a nylon sleeve they had made especially for him."

"Posed with the question as to whether he wears sleeves for fashion or health reasons, Brooklyn Nets forward Andrea Bargnani said “I think it’s in the middle.” He added that he originally began wearing the sleeve to reduce pain in his right arm. Bargnani now wears two leggings and one sleeve—on his left arm.

“Obviously, I don’t need it,” Bargnani said."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/allen-iverson-and-the-nbas-sleeve-revolution-1448488382 ↗

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_sleeve ↗

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/object-of-interest-the-history-of-the-allen-iverson-sleeve ↗

@Kcmatt7 great post!

@jaybate-1.0 said:

It propels often sensible aliases into saying the darnedest things to keep their anti-injury narrative intact.

And thank you for the compliment!

@jaybate-1.0 you still don't have proof and can't provide minute markers. I don't watch the MSM but apparently you watch some of them as you have no idea how to provide evidence to your theories and just say how inept everyone else is. When I was in writing class in college, my teacher would have given me an F on a paper that I didn't provide evidence for - evidence for a claim is what its called. You can look it up on Google.

I don't know what the "bad old days" were, but if those days were asking people to provide a reason for their belief and show where the other team is clearly forcing someone left when no one else sees it, then I guess these are the bad days.

PS - You really think I rely on the MSM and their talking points? LOL!!!!!

@RockChalkRedlock

Okay, now THAT is some HARD evidence.

OMG! OMG!!!!!

I want to go buy one pair each in Navy AOR-2, Marpat forrest, and the new US4CES Bravo (none of that Charlie stuff for moi!!!!!).

I have never been sooooooooooooooo wrong!!!!!!!!!

No wait, Bargnani, said he thinks the reason he wears it is in the middle. He wears it for health reasons and for fashion.

OMG! OMG! Its both.

He says he doesn't need it, but he wears it to control pain and for fashion.

Wait a minute!!!!

WAIT!!!!

This REALLY means Bargnani, and any other player that had elbow pain from a hyper extension, or tendonitis issue, WOULD wear a sleeve on their sore arm, RIGHT?

And, ummmm, that means that when a guy's athletic performance falls off sharply and he is wearing a sleeve and leggings, well, that sleeve and legging become evidence of where the injury would tend to be, RIGHT??????

Oh, shizzle, the 'bate 1.0 cannot help being right even when he tries to admit being wrong, RIGHT?

Holy cow!!!!!

HOLY COW!!!!!

Which is more likely?

A guy falls down to 28% FG shooting, starts shooting 3 inch jump shots, can't elevate very often except on the run, and generally loses his explosiveness, and wears sleeves and legs lingerie for fashion?

Or..

A guy falls down to 28% FG shooting a couple games, starts shooting 3 inch jump shots, can't elevate very often except on the run, and generally loses his explosiveness, and wears sleeves and legs lingerie for health reasons?

Or to put it another way, are we to believe Devonte just got into a little mental funk about the meaning of life, or are we to search for explanations among the following:

a.) leg injury;

b.) arm injury;

c.) cold or flu;

d.) girl friend troubles;

e.) drug addiction; or

c.) fashion doubt.

Man, I've gotta say, you almost had me going there for a minute.

I was almost ready to attribute it all to a fun about fashion doubt.

I mean think about how hard it is to jump, or shoot accurately, or strip the ball, when you are doubting your fashion.

NEXT!

@jaybate-1.0 did you watch the game? lol He went up high for a one handed dunk. If he is injured, how can he do that?

@HawkChamp

Have you ever seen a guy not be able to get up on one leg on the run?

FOTFLMAO!!!!!

@HawkChamp

Okay, I'll take what you give me.

Did you even watch the game?

Did you see Devonte shooting the three inch jump shots?

Did you see him switching and dragging the leg?

Did you see him not being explosive most of the game?

Did you ever think that one get up was all he had in him?

LOL!

@jaybate-1.0 apparently you are incapable of objectively debating with someone else without immature rebuttals. I am done with this thread.

@HawkChamp

No, i have an idea how NOT to do your work for you.

So, again, I'll take what you give me.

You provide me the minute markers when he was explosive off both legs.

You provide me the minute markers that he was playing the same number of minutes as explosively as he did last season.

You provide me the...well, I could go on here forever.

You haven't provided me ANYTHING that refutes my assertion that he is injured.

You have only proven that guys are wearing arm sleeves and leg lingerie for pain and fashion. Right?

Provide me the minute markers for when these guys only wear sleeves and leg lingerie for fashion only.

Provide me the minute markers and quotes that the players and coaches never have the players wear the sleeves and the leg lingerie for pain.

You apparently not only don't know how to prove your case, but you apparently don't know how to reason very well either.

Dang, I was so excited for you for awhile. I was getting out my fork and knife to eat some crow, because I am always willing to do that. And I would be sooooo happy if Devonte turned out to be barely injured and just about well, which I is what I now I am hoping for. But I thought sure your graphics really proved your case for awhile, but all they prove is that players wear these things for pain and fashion. They don't prove which and when. And they don't say anything about Devonte. But that's okay, because you were avoiding Devonte, and focusing on trying to wake me up to the fact that the sleeves and leg lingerie have a fashion element that I did not realize. That much I thank you for.

Let me repeat that: I was wildly wrong about how the fashion part. And I got soooooo jazzed for you that you were right about the fashion part that I figured, well, you must be right about the pain part, too. But, well, then I began to stop looking at the pictures and started reading the words and "thinking" again, and, well, sorry, you didn't prove Devonte isn't injured.

All you proved is that players wear these things for pain and fashion.

I'll give you a C for dragging in some data. And I'll give you an A for waking me up to the fashion issue.

But you haven't done shizzle as far as prove or disprove Devonte's condition. You just keep harping on Devonte doing one lousy dunk. Have you forgotten that Tyrel Reed, a career 40% plus trey baller, played most of his last season operable on a bum foot and still shot 36% from three and flipping dunked during warm ups (apparently to keep opponents from guessing accurately how injured he was)? I mean really, haven't you ever tried to hide an injury on the wood from an opponent? Haven't you ever jumped even though it hurt like hell. Doing anything once, or just a few times a game, doesn't mean a player is healthy! It means the exact opposite usually. It means a player is saving himself and trying as much as possible to protect the injured spot in hopes it will heal. You do understand that players play injured, don't you?

And you sure as heck haven't provided me the minute markers and the quotes that sleeves and leg lingerie are not used for health reasons, have you?

But just to show you I'm a mensch, I will throw you a bone. If you want to work for me for free for a while, I recall that there have been times in the past when it appeared to me that Self was having most, or all, of the players wear sleeves, and or leg lingerie, in order to mask somewhat which players were injured where.

Gee, I'm feeling so generous I will offer you another bone. Again, you have to want to run errands for me for free to do it, though. I also recall times when Self has appeared to have players with reported leg injuries to one leg wear leg lingerie on both legs, again, apparently to make it just a little harder for the opponent to recognize which leg was the weak one to exploit.

Now, get to it. Fetch!

I dont think he ever really left to be honest he just had some bad shooting games. Has had good assists numbers all year. One thing that drives me crazy is after a few games that one guy doesnt play well several on here are like he must be hurt!!! Sometimes people just have bad games guys,

@drgnslayr

When KU played Indiana in Hawaii he looked way overweight...

!image.png ↗

@JayHawkFanToo That's the game that I noticed the fast food recruiting paunch.

@Kcmatt7

I believe you have it absolutely right. Basketball sleeves are really "compression sleeves" that the makers claim improve circulation and might on occasion lessen the impact of a knee or elbow knock that can be painful to the touch but present no structural damage. There is no medical evidence that they do anything other than to feel and look good.

Anyone that follows basketball or other sports know that the great majority of sleeves are worn as fashion and because of the placebo effect and not to correct any existing damage or prevent further injuries since the have no structural rigidity; they are one small step above a tattoo. On the other hand, orthopedic braces worn by injured players will normally have structural components that limit movement or shield the body part from further impact.

I have seen kids in rec. leagues wearing compression sleeves and I know they have no injuries...monkey see, monkey do. Marathon runners are now wearing knee high compression socks...in their defense, those race starts are brutal with all the shoving, kicking, elbowing and eye gouging that goes on...worse than the bottom of a football pile with Dick Butkus squeezing your nuts...brutal I tell you, brutal; I am not sure how they ever survived before without their knee highs. No fiction and no malice although plenty of tongue-in-cheek...:smiley:

When Devonte shoots a three, he never jumps more than three inches off the floor.

Last year's Big 12 Championship MVP highlights.

Maybe the sleeves and leggings help the long, smooth, and oh-so-cool glide in a floor burn that earns a 10 from the judges.

@JayHawkFanToo

Yikes.... not a very flattering photo.

He had his sport coat on when I saw him.

I usually look at faces and I thought his face looked thin and healthy. Good skin.

@JayHawkFanToo

What about kinesiology tape?

Does it do anything? Kind of seems like more "tattoo wear" to me.

!kinetape.jpg ↗

@drgnslayr

There is no hard evidence that it works and a lot of what people perceive is the placebo effect. ↗

@JayHawkFanToo

I guess if you use the tape correctly you can keep fat from jiggling....

@drgnslayr

There is no real harm wearing either and if it helps psychologically then by all means wear it...and it also gives @jaybate-1.0 sleepless nights and material for multi part posts.

@JayHawkFanToo

Yes.... but I enjoy JB's insights, even when (and especially when) he is hyper-focused on something.

He reminds me of Thomas Edison.... nose to the grindstone and hyper-focused.... eventually he made major discoveries.

@drgnslayr I just like the constant challenge. He doesn't back down, even when he is wrong and knows he's wrong. He keeps coming at you. At first it was frustrating until I realized it was more of a game for him. And I need to make it a game to keep it fun. He wants to challenge you to see if you slip. He obviously likes to show off his vocabulary and quick whit as well. But for the most part, it is a game. He usually picks the harder side of the argument to make it a fair fight and some of our funniest terms have come from the battles. And I'm sure he likes to get a good chuckle out of how riled up he can get us.

@drgnslayr

I dunno, but I'd like to do a little field research.

@JayHawkFanToo said:

nd it also gives @jaybate-1.0 sleepless nights and material for multi part posts.

I can assure you that the kinieese tape does not make me want to write multi part posts!!!!

@wrwlumpy

Oooooooh, thank you.

Look at the 4.26 mark. Look at Devonte's left leg. Look at him trying to work it. Trying to keep it straight. Oooooooooh, the injury tracks to late last season!!!!!!!!!! Was it late last year that he went the acute cramping. Houston, we've got something here. And look at the knee. It looks swelled up a little just sitting there. Aw, but @drgnslayr has known it all along. He has been keeping Devonte's secret for him. And he has just been howling in the background while I've been being Johnny come lately flailing away trying to get a handle on the issue. Slayr you devil you.

@Kcmatt7 said:

He obviously likes to show off his vocabulary and quick whit as well

As well he should and we are fortunate anytime we can read words that can dance.