🏀 KuBuckets Archive

The Kansas football team returns home Saturday to face West Virginia 11am on ESPNU. West Virginia looks pretty salty on offense which has been the norm in Morgantown since Dana Holgorsen came to town, averaging over 46 points per contest so far this season after a slow start against Va Tech to open up the year. But for the first since he's been there Dana has let someone else call the plays in OC Jake Spavital, which obviously has worked out well thus far. Former Florida QB Will Grier leads the team offensively but don't sleep on running back Justin Crawford whom has averaged over a 100 yards on the ground per contest. Defensively they are fairly youthful in terms of playing time. They were 60th against the rush last year and 104th vs the pass. Hopefully that's a positive sign that Bender and co can get something going and keep us from being run out of our own stadium. We have seen some teams come in asleep in these early games and allowed us to hang around or even win as we did in an 11 am kick against the Mountaineers in 2013. I personally would flip the script if I'm KU on offense, the run block looks to be better than pass block and Herbert showed what he can do last week in the open field. We do get some guys back from injury on the defensive side of the ball so hopefully that helps, it can't really hurt at this point. It will be interesting as a Tom Keegan article I earlier read on how many fans will show up? Oddly enough me and a friend had a similar conversation earlier in the week, we actually competed fairly decent at home last year, was in every game but one at half time and only had 2 double digit losses but still had low attendance. Obviously with one those already under our belt to a MAC team it is questionable that we even compete at home the rest the way we could dip down below 20k for the first time in over 20 years. My hawk to rock is Dorance Armstrong, I think he gets in the sack column and finally starts to play like we know he can. That being said I'm going West Virginia 59 Kansas 23. This game gets as ugly as Holgorsen let's it, we likely won't stop them much and realistically could give up 45 to 75 points in this as well as serval other contest this season.

@kjayhawks

It may be time to start a cemetery where the old track used to be. Maybe build the Tomb of the Unknown Jayhawk Football Player. There could be a lot casualties this weekend.

This should be a high scoring game in WVU's favor of course. Prayers for the KU defensive back corps

Vegas is predicting approximately a 48-24 game today. WVU is a 24 point favorite and the over/under is 71 points.

Run game looks good on this drive.

Herbert looks like a beast right now.

Killer penalty there

Other than that 2nd false start, that was a very good drive for KU and Herbert.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yep and excalty what I said I'd, trouble is we have to start finishing drives. Kicking field goals from inside the ten doesn't win B12 games

Better lucky than good sometimes, like that pass.

@kjayhawks Only thing that salvaged that drive for me is that the FG is the middle ground of results. I'd more more upset if KU didn't convert that 1st down and got nothing out of one of their best drives of the season than I was with that penalty.

Missed a key chanc to down it in the 5 there after passing for some odd reason. How can our coaches be so stupid?

@kjayhawks I was fine with the pass, but the pass type wasn't great. It needed to be a quick hitter like a slant.

With that punt, the ball bounced the opposite direction it appeared it was going to so that was more bad luck than anything else.

Time to find a new LG.

@Texas-Hawk-10 yep two very very costly penalties that prob keep us from leading by a touchdown or field goal.

Why not two runs straight up the gut on 3rd and 1? Lateral 4 yards behind the line automatically gives up the yardage they just got. Hate those calls, and then mistakes just compound it.

@mayjay It wasn't a 3rd and 1 though. It was a 3rd and 4. I'm guessing the 4th down play was supposed to be a run up the middle though.

Cameras suck today. That's the 4th play they've missed already.

This is the worst coached team in recorded history.

Our defense needs to step up right now and get a stop. 3 and out, please. Another TD here and I think our guys will just go through the motions to finish out the game.

What's the crowd look like? 15,000. Pathetic.

@kjayhawks No it's not. Not even the worst coached KU team this decade.

The Charlie Weis teams were much more unwatchable than these teams are.

@Texas-Hawk-10 the Weis teams wouldn't stop running the ball averaging 7 yards per carry in a 7-3 game. Single digit IQ bye our coaches, middle school level skill by them. I'm out for the day

Ouch, 3 and out for us. Our defense is going to get worn down, just like last year.

I will say though that Clint Bowen needs to be demoted though. He's a good DB coach as evidenced by the number of DB's KU has sent to the NFL recently, but as far as a coordinator, he just sucks. His play calling of rarely blitzing is why we can't pressure the QB and why the secondary is getting scorched. You can't rush just 3 or 4 90% if the time and expect a young secondary to cover all day. KU needs to be sending 5 or 6 nearly every time to help the DB's as much as possible and forcing the QB into some hurried throws and mistakes.

@Texas-Hawk-10 It won't be by Coach Beaty. During the pregame, CB spoke very highly of the job Bowen is doing.

@stoptheflop I know that and as frustrating as this is, KU legitimately needs Beaty here for 5 years regardless of W-L record so he can at least eliminate the scholarship deficit. Firing him after this year just delays that process.

It also wouldn't be smart to change AD's in the middle of this fundraising campaign which means Beaty is probably safe until all the $350 million is raised because Zenger is a great fundraiser even if his coaching evaluation skills are subpar.

KU might be better off with Stanley at QB when his hand gets healthy.

Bender has way too many overthrow and behind the receiver throws this year.

What a half bye Herbert 191 yards and a TD on 19 carries. The lone bright spot.

13-35 half. Enjoyed the running game, but I probably have better things to do than watch the rest.

@kjayhawks Gabe Rui and Cole Moos were pretty good too.

The most useless freakin' TV shot is of coaches on the sideline. I just yelled words at the TV which I didn't even know could be fitted together to create mental images best gorgotten.

Is Herbert going to make a run at Tony Sands single rushing record?

Holy crap!

Now, just imagine if you took away those two dumb ass false starts and the pick 6 on that horrendous throw...

This is why KU football can't be good.

@MoonwalkMafia excalty we had some really stupid play calls and penalties or we are prob winning right now. Feel bad for the players this is on the coaches.

@kjayhawks How are those two false starts on the coaches? Those were 100% on the LG and he's had 4 false starts today. 4 false starts by one player is not on the coaches, that is 100% on the player not knowing the snap count.

Bull crap penalty there. Completely missed that face mask.

@Texas-Hawk-10 because no other team in america besides kansas still has pre snap penalties like the plague 4 weeks in to the year.

Finally nailed a deep ball!

@kjayhawks That's still on the player, not coaches. That's a 100% mental mistake and those are ALWAYS on the player. Physical mistakes are on the coaches because those are poor techniques being taught. Not knowing a snap count is always on the player.

It's on the defense now to get a big stop. Come on fellas: 3 and OUT. RCJHF

@Texas-Hawk-10 disagree but let's go hawks

Still watching. Picked up dog poop in the yard at halftime, and I think that got us going.

TTU and Houston in a defensive struggle just like we all predicted.

Win or lose, WVU confirmed worse than MAC teams. :joy:

@kjayhawks Was 77 going down field on 77 or the coaches?

@kjayhawks I guess that Armstrong penalty was the coaches fault also.

@BShark Say what?

That was pass interference

@Texas-Hawk-10 @Big-Clyde52 Guess coaches aren't responsible for their players discipline not like they practice or anything.

Getting chippy in here.

@kjayhawks Depends on the type of discipline you're talking about. A coach can tell a player 100 different times in 100 different ways the snap count or watch the football on defense. After that, it's up to the player execute. Dorrance Armstrong flinching on that FG was completely on Armstrong not watching the football. Tovi wandering downfield and his false starts are on Tovi's lack of awareness.

KU's defense has been severely disappointing all season.

Lee's lucky he didn't get ejected on that one.

@kjayhawks That Lee penalty is on the coaching because that's a poor technique.

We'll, that got ugly fast

Has Bowen been fired yet?

@Texas-Hawk-10 no no penalties are on the players remember.

@kjayhawks Not even close to what my original post on the topic was, but nice attempt at putting words in my mouth.

To refresh your memory, my point was mental mistakes like false starts, offsides, ineligible receivers downfield are on the players because those are mental lapses by the player.

Most penalties that result from physical mistakes do tend to fall on the coaching staff because those are poor techniques being used and it's the job of the coaches to teach proper technique.

The Armstrong offsides is a perfect example of a penalty being on the player. He was lined up right over the football, there was absolutely no excuse for him to flinch. From the Pre Wee level on up, defensive linemen are told everyday to watch the football instead of listening to the snap count.

False starts are also ALWAYS on the player because that's 100% between the ears of the player to know the snap count and not flinch when defenders are moving about.

@kjayhawks Yes you are correct. The coaches are for sure responsible for teaching discipline, technique, strategy, etc. And all of this is went over and over in practice all week. But once the players are between the lines and the clock starts, it is up to the players to execute everything they have been taught and prepared for. There is where the problem lies. The players execute, they usually win. They do not execute, they usually lose.

It's some of both. If you don't prepare players they are going to make mental mistakes. If you don't practice going on a different snap count people are going to jump offsides because they have been conditioned to go on a certain count. Same with anything. If you don't practice it, it's 100% the coaches fault. If you practice it properly and a player doesn't execute than it is in the player.

It could be worse, I'm a fsu fan and have nothing to be excited about either

BeddieKU23 said:

It could be worse, I'm a fsu fan and have nothing to be excited about either

FSU's 247 board rn...

!alt text ↗

I actually watched a fair bit of that game and FSU has serious oline problems. Of course it doesn't help that Bama and NCST both have lots of NFL talent on the Dline but still.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I'll agree to disagree with you. It's the coaching staffs job to prepare the team both mentally and physically to play the game. On to the game, I don't know how to feel because we actually looked good and like we made progress several parts of the game. But at the same time we had some terrible play calling at times, the first of which comes to mind in the first half trailing 7-3, 2nd and 4 from WVU 46, 5 straight passes lead to back to back punts only 1 was completed and it's quickly 21-3. The offense really hurt themselves with the 3 turnovers including a pick 6. At the same time the offense is averaging 33 ppg (was 13 in 2015, 20 in 16), over 20 first downs and nearly 500 yards of offense. Half of their issues are finishing drives instead of settling for 3 points, turnovers haven't been great but last week was the first time in 16 games to have just one and we are on pace to turnover the 25 times this year comepared to 37 last year. Statistically speaking it's the best offense so far this year since Mangino was on the sidelines. Defensively I'm lost on how you return 6 guys and look this bad, I really want Clint Bowen to succeed but averaging 47 points to FBS is the same stuff that got Gill and his staff canned. All in all the game was closer than I thought it would be and the guys battled back to within a touchdown with less than 8 minutes to go. Herbert was great and the oline looks better every week just have to cut out the penalties.

@kjayhawks The expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink very much applies to this situation. A coach can only prepare a player so much before the execution falls on the player.

Players practice different snap counts everyday. Dorrance Armstrong flinching on that FG is something every defender learns from day 1 and every coach preaches from day 1. Dorrance knows this, he had a mental lapse, not Beaty, not Bowen, not any other coach.

@kjayhawks The offense is better, but we're also seeing why Leach chose Caulk over Bender. Bender has a huge arm, but it's pretty erratic at times and it's led to most of his picks including the pick 6 today.

At this point, I would like to see what Stanley could do in this offense because his mobility would bring the zone read into play and with the inverted wishbone formation, that can be a bread and butter play for teams.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Ya I agree about Bender, once he gets his control worked out if he does, he could be a solid guy. I will give him credit for not taking sacks today, that was an improvement. Yes, idk how much longer til Stanley is healthy but at this point why not try it. We know any win from here on out is a long shot. Looking at his numbers from last year he isn't as good throwing as Bender but being able to run is nice.

@BShark

The o-line is a disastrous, just a ton of wrong. Blackman played well but Jimbo had really let this team down

The offense is fine with Bender at QB. We are averaging 32+ points a game with Bender and Coach Meacham. We only averaged 19 points a game last year. I give Meacham credit for exploiting the weak rush defense of W V. My goodness, it was wonderful to see our rushes work.

If we had this year's offense coupled with last year's defense, we would have the competitive team that all of us crave. The defense gave up 49 points to W V. It's not reasonable to require 50+ points from the offense in an effort to overcome such a weak defense that Bowen is fielding this year. Where the hell is the pass rush? The only sack was by Joe Dineen and as a team we only had 4 QB hurries for the game. W. V. passed 39 times, during which we had 1 sack and 5 hurries, which is pressure on less than 13% of the pass attempts. Armstrong and the rest of the D line are just complete non-factors this year. Armstrong only had 1 solo tackle (3 total), compared to 11 (14 total) for Dineen. Lee had 10 tackles and Torneden had 9 tackles.

The solution to KU football being more competitive this year is on the defensive side of the ball, not bringing in Carter Stanley. I think the offense will improve slightly as the season goes on, but not enough to overcome the collapse by Bowen's defense.

@stoptheflop Agree about the pass rush. - I don't agree about Armstrong- You should know - -we all know you see it every Saturday. Teams are using new tatics now - -double teams on Armstrong hell some times have seen 3 - So the question becomes - what the hell is the rest of our line doing? - you gonna double team Armstrong then these others best be picking up the slack, someone should be free. Our defensive line was SUPPOSE to be one of our strength's - one of the best in the Big 12

We have seen every week , the opposing QB having a field day against our secondary because he isn't being touched , has all day. - How many times yesterday did we hear the announcers say that WV QB had all kinds of time - -no pressure , What's happened to Wise? What's happened to our supposedly other DE that Beaty beat his chest about all spring and fall workouts? - Again you give a QB that much time I don't care how good a secondary is - they going to get shredded if your not getting any kind of pressure, by far Not Armstrong. - If anything Armstrong is the only one who has any kind of an excuse for not getting the pressure. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

How awful would a KU Missouri game be right now?

@BShark Well, that's a good question Fizzou is 1-3 just like us. Their stats mirror ours in a number of ways, both teams beat an FCS club and haven't been closer than double digits to an FBS win. They are averaging 25 ppg to our 32 and giving up 40 to our 39 . One could argue that they have played a tougher schedule, which is true but neither team has competed at a high level. The last few years of the rivalry in football thanks to Gill didn't end well for us. Think of how bad we would've murdered them in basketball the past few years.

@jayballer54 I agree other team's are focusing on Armstrong, but too many times I've seen him miss a tackle in space. If other team's are doubling Armstrong, then it should be easier for the other defenders to get to the QB. Not, so; no one is getting to the QB. My criticism is with Bowen and the defensive staff, not so much with Armstrong. Our defensive scheme made the MAC QBs look like NFL Pro Bowlers.

kjayhawks said:

@BShark Well, that's a good question Fizzou is 1-3 just like us. Their stats mirror ours in a number of ways, both teams beat an FCS club and haven't been closer than double digits to an FBS win. They are averaging 25 ppg to our 32 and giving up 40 to our 39 . One could argue that they have played a tougher schedule, which is true but neither team has competed at a high level. The last few years of the rivalry in football thanks to Gill didn't end well for us. Think of how bad we would've murdered them in basketball the past few years.

Missouri the last couple years in basketball probably would have legit been the worst team on KU's schedule. Crazy.

And yeah...I think KU would give them a game in football this year...

@stoptheflop Agee. - -yet the whole Defensive side is missing tackles - open field tackles -- -trying to arm tackle , just poor tackling technique all the way around. ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54 It's not just KU that can't tackle, it's everybody at every level. Watching NFL games today, I can't count how many missed tackles I've seen. The reason is because teams aren't allowed to practice in full pad except once or twice a week at every level.

You can teach technique all day long, but when you practice at half speed and don't get to practice tackling at full speed, it negatively impacts learning how to properly tackle.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Ya have to say the tackling through and through is really sad- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY