🏀 KuBuckets Archive

It's homecoming in Lawrence as Kansas faces Texas Tech again in the early game at 11am this time on FS1. Tech comes in off of a tight home loss to Okie state. Tech honestly is better than I figured @Texas-Hawk-10 called it. They have lived close to the edge in building a 3-1 record with a 3 point win over Houston and 7 point win over Arizona state in what most called a make or break year for Cliff and a loss to Kansas in most cases is a break. We know they are gonna run tempo and put points on the board with relative ease against the Kansas defense, Shimonek actually out played Mahomes last year against us after Mahomes was hurt and put up 27 straight points. Their defense is slightly improved from a year ago, they actually do average giving up .3 more pass yards per contest than us, which says a lot watching how pathetic we have been against it. They average letting up 30 less rush yards and 9 less points. Most of that is caused bye our inability to create turnovers. I really believe the offensive line is improving and deserves credit for creating lanes for Herbert to run. If Bender can just settle in and be consistent in the passing game I think we can score points. Kansas is actually 29th in total offense, we just have to cut down on turnovers and finish drives with touchdowns. I believe we have had 4 drives that ended inside our opponents 10 yard line that resulted in FGs. Kansas also has a real shot to eclipse 30 points for the 3rd straight game, which hasn't happened since the Mangino days. For only being hear a year Mecham is doing a solid job IMO and I hope he's here for several years. With all this being said I'm gonna go with TT 59 Kansas 38. I think it's a similar game to the Wet Virginia one, where we get close but just can't find a way to keep up late.

Other b12 games are ISU at OU, KSU at Texas and WVU at TCU

My winners OU, Texas and TCU

OU, KSU, TCU, TTU.

OU, UT, TT, WV

OU is the only gimme pick this week. I think the other games will all be pretty good match ups. Offensively challenge KSU against defensively inept Texas will be interesting. I think I'll take KSU in that one.

WVU and TCU has game of the year potential, but I'll take TCU in a close one.

I'll also take Tech in a game that'll be closer than the 47-32 score Vegas is predicting for this one.

Well got to say OU , K-State , -TCU - & TT. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

going for all the home teams.... OU, UT, TCU and KU

And, now I'm heading to Memorial Stadium!

Looking at the Big 12 statistics, Joe Dineen continues to be a bright spot for our KU defense. He's first in tackles per game and leads in tackles for loss. Dineen has a total of 52 tackles through four games, which is an average of 13 tackles/game. That's 6 more tackles than second place ISU's LB, Lanning.

Joe Dineen also leads the conference in tackles for loss with 9. So, at least Joe shows up to play defense for our Jayhawks. I hope he has about a million tackles today against TTech.

I will give it a try...OU, UT, TCU and Tech. over KU in a high scoring game

DanR said:

going for all the home teams.... OU, UT, TCU and KU

And, now I'm heading to Memorial Stadium!

Enjoy - -bring a victory today ok? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@stoptheflop I - - just wish our D-Line would wake the hell up. - -Especially Wise & Armstrong. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I'm Afraid Tech will score at will unless some drastically changes - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@stoptheflop he could use some help!!

Wow it looks like less than 5000 people are at the game

@kjayhawks and they won't stay long!

Unless!

Wide open

@Crimsonorblue22 yep, then we can't line up 6 weeks into the season without burning a timeout smh. Do these guys ever practice? If so what do they do during practice?

KU got screwed on that spot on 4th down.

Clint Bowen has no idea how to utilize the talent on defense.

47 yards untouched.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Bowen maybe the worst coach I've ever seen.

This sucks! I'm talking for the players on the field too

Bender has to hit the deep ball

Now we can't even run block smh

@kjayhawks Worst coordinator. I'd take him as a DB coach all day long. Most of KU's recent NFL players have been DB's so Bowen has clearly been a capable developer of players.

Not that it's going to matter in the end, but why was that TD not reviewed? Receiver clearly never had complete control of that ball at any point and should've been an incomplete pass.

Get ready for screw job #3 on this review

@Texas-Hawk-10 ya wtf is with these refs? Clearly a drop and a first down on KUs first drive.

'Bout time

Dud I just see a sack?

That's not Bender, that's Stanley at QB now.

I like that receiver!

How are the refs going to screw KU on this one?

Better not!

This pisses me off

BULLCRAP!

How the hell does that get overturned but the Tech one didn't? What a load of shit!

You piece, you didn't say that till they overturned it! I'm firing you!

Omg, sickening

I agree with that kid flipping off the refs.

Face mask in there?

@DanR you better be chasing down some refs!

Holy shit

Booker's TD will be overturned somehow.

The first quarter has taken an hour to play. We need to rush the ball and take some time off the clock.

After further review, it doesn't matter that the toe touched first, incomplete pass, 4th down

@stoptheflop That's not why this quarter has taken an hour.

Miracle

About damn time!

@Texas-Hawk-10 you should take that old mans place!

@Texas-Hawk-10 my son is in Houston, my brother got him a ticket to chiefs game for a graduation gift. I was thinking you weren't a chiefs fan?

@Crimsonorblue22 I don't hate the Chiefs, but they're not my team either. I will actually be at that game tomorrow night though.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Houston picked up heeney.

@Crimsonorblue22 Saw that this week. I didn't know he wasn't in Oakland this year.

Even though the QB's knee was down, the QB fumbling after being down is not relevant, it will be Texas Tech football on the 1 yard line because screw Kansas.

@Texas-Hawk-10 sat out all last yr w/ankle/foot injury

Acording to the radio broadcast, KU is getting royally screwed by the refs.

Didn't someone predicted at one time this was a winable game? Must have thought KU was playing Texas Tech. High School.

@JayHawkFanToo Yes, the refs made a lot of bad calls against KU, but even in the best case scenario, it would still likely be 28-14 Tech.

Glad to see schadler back in there!

Isu beating ou? 😳

@Crimsonorblue22 !0_1507402148372_IMG_3015.JPG ↗

Super sad

Mercy!

Stanley isn't any better than Bender it's ether under throw or over thrown choose which.

@Crimsonorblue22 very sad, this has been a frustrating game. If our 3rd and 4th year guys could just make simple easy plays that most can in middle school like catching the ball and or refs that aren't drunk we'd be in this game.

Oklahoma just got beat bye a 3rd string QB and we can't even find a guy that looks like he's played the game before.

@kjayhawks makes you think it isn't the QB that's the issue... No talent surrounding Bender. No Defense. Most drives have to go 75 yards. So our QB has to throw in a tight window and run 10-12 plays in order to get us a score almost every single time. We have to get a legit stud at either the RB or WR position. AND we have to beef up our O-Line so that we can give that stud room to run or time to get open.

Combine that with asking an average at best QB to be effective throwing the ball 30+ times is a recipe for disaster. This "Air Raid" really needs to turn into an option offense. Think Oregon instead of TCU. Tons of motions, jet sweeps, misdirection and PA passes. Especially while we only have small quick WRs and no real down field threat.

@Kcmatt7 QB isn't all the problem for sure. Cozart looked like an average QB against a terrible team for Boise State, who has a much better all around team. Our WRs can't catch most the time anyway but some of these throws that are off by several yards and the QB has time idk who else you blame. Now the question becomes does the KU basketball team hold the TT team to less than the 65 let up today lol.

Even our senior punter sucks 37 yards per punt average on 7 kicks. SMH no silver lining in this one today, just terrible team with terrible coaching being terrible.

Kingsbury now has as many wins in memorial stadium as Beaty and he's only in his fifth year.

That was painful, and I'm not just talking about the sunburn on one side of my body.

7 official reviews in the first quarter alone. Total BS. Why even have refs on the field at all if they are that useless.

Don't even know where to begin. - Ok let's start here you have fourth and one - - -and then forth and less then one - two separate occasions - and you have an O-Line that can't get ANY kind of push off the line? You give any team a half a field to have to go for a score - -that spells disaster. Ok next this is just ONE of TT possessions that ended in a TD - -and then Brad Baldinger mention this about questioning the call of the Defense what the hell are you doing blitzing both outside line backers from the corners - -result - another TT - TD.

Our D-Line which was suppose to be one of the best in the Big 12 - suppose to be a strength? - - -for 3/4 or at least 1/2 the game was a joke - -& has been a joke. -they did finally get a little pressure sprinkled through out the game from the 2nd quarter on- - Armstrong/Wise. - - Our secondary can't cover a cold. - BUT we knew that was going to be a weakness.

The QB position? - -Damn you can bullshit people to your blue in the face - -not me. - -Stanley may note be the QB but - -Peyton Bender SURE the hell is not. - -Bender is like a model of standing concrete - has no mobility what so ever it is pathetic. - -8 interceptions already - -I've said this before -and I'll say it again , Peyton Bender is an interception looking for a place to happen. - - this guy only completing they said like 56 % of his passes - -a lot of them not even close. - -example you say? - -Ben Johnson wide open in the end zone easy completion TD - -what's Bender do misses by plenty, - -you talk about receivers catching passes
well they got to be reasonable - A lot of benders passes are really
ugly. - His decision making is terrible.

Carter Stanley -again maybe not the answer but the ONE thing he at least does have - - -mobility. -The one INT of his - -- not his fault at all. - -He completed the pass , Herell just got the ball ripped out after the completion.. - -Stanley by far was NOT any worse then Bender for sure.

We don't like either one of these guys , - -then we have to go to the next man up. - -Starks. - -AGAIN all heard when he came in was Beaty talking about THIS was the type of QB he wanted a dual option QB for sure - -a pure dual option QB - -no - -nothing. We ain't going anywhere anyways - -neither of the other 2 QB'S gettin it done -give Starks his shot.

Right now this football team is a joke - if possible I actually think we have taken a step backwards. - -This defense - -is just WOW. , At this point if a team is struggling - all you have to do is play KU have career days plain and simple.

The thing is - -you know it - -I know it your going to start to hear ALOT of pressure about changing coaches - - -AGAIN - -that's not the answer , you can't keep doing that, you'll NEVER get anything accomplished - -no rythmm - no consistency nothing. - -but it's gonna happen. Another tough spot is - your not going to get any kind of decent players wanting to come to a program such as this right now - -these players don't want to walk into this. - -I'm telling you - -look out we are going to lose more commits for the coming yeat yet - -especially the two studs out of Louisiana - -other schools gonna be all over them like white on rice. - -Asking like WHY would you wanna go play for something like that - -I can already hear it - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

DanR said:

That was painful, and I'm not just talking about the sunburn on one side of my body.

Your right my friend - -they are really painful to watch - -just down right ugly. - I am one that is not in favor of change every three yrs or so - -but I think at least I hate to say but I think Clint needs to go - most of the defensive Coaches need to go. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Didn't watch the game today. Watched ISU OU mainly instead. Felt good. Recommend it.

If KU can show more fight and smart football I will watch more again, But as of right now it's boring and predictable in a bad way.

@DanR how long did you stay?

Bless anyone that went to the game. I don't have it in me.

@Crimsonorblue22 left about halfway through the 4th quarter. Figured four hours was enough.

This preseason I was the most excited about the team as I have been since the Mangino glory years. The team was supposed to have decent players and experience, someone even said one of the better defenses in the conference. Now, I am even more disappointed than I was excited; it sure looks like the teams has regressed and we are back to being rolled at home. I just don't see any games that will even be close...maybe Baylor?...right...

The only consolation we have is that basketball is right around the corner and it does not disappoint.

@DanR watching the post game, 2 defensive guys, Neal did not suit up, don't know why and h. Defense has mono. 2 starters.

@JayHawkFanToo I think the Big XII is actually up this year though. Kingsbury’s job eas on the line so he upped his game. TCU is significantly better. ISU is way better than anyone thought. Texas is strides better (favored over KSU this week). The conference as a whole is significantly better so I think we might be progressing, it is just hard to see when the entire conference is also doing the same.

@Kcmatt7 so hard for me to see improvement in the D.

@BShark That was a terrible game for the Big 12. OU just got eliminated from the College Football Playoff with that loss and now TCU is the Big 12's lone hope for a playoff berth. The other 4 P5 leagues all still have multiple teams in contention.

The ACC still has Clemson, Miami, and possibly NC State that can reach the CFP

The Big 10 still has Penn St., Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio St. in the hunt.

The Pac 12 still has USC, Utah, Washington, and Washington St. in the hunt.

The SEC still has Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida in contention.

The Big 12 has TCU and that's it.

@Crimsonorblue22 We expected the D to be worse, right? Lost a ton in the Defensive Backfield.

@DanR I admire your courage buddy

DanR said:

7 official reviews in the first quarter alone. Total BS. Why even have refs on the field at all if they are that useless.

You know, these games would be shorter and the lopsided outcome the same, if opposing coaches would just concede every review to KU's favor. Why bother?

@Kcmatt7 Most people expected the defense to be about the same because of the DLine re turning in tact and having 2 of the best in the league in Armstrong and Wise.

@BShark shoot I went to the Central Michigan game. A game most thought we could win and saw a mac team cream us by 30. I figured today was a double digit loss. Honestly if i lived closer I'd go to most home games because stub hub has tickets for $10.

@mayjay Yeah, I don't get the challenges on first downs when you're up 21-0 eight minutes into the first quarter. I think until the 4th quarter they should give the replay folks about 30 seconds to review. 1) if you don't have a good camera angle, go back to the field call. 2) If it's not blatantly different than the field call, then move on. Later, in a close game, scrutinize it more. Football is not really a game of inches.

Some of those breaks were 5+ minutes. Three out of five plays at one point. There was a so-called fumble challenge that everyone in the stadium could see he was down and practically running back to the huddle before the ball was loose, and that one took forever because I assume they had crappy camera angles on it. Totally nuts. I think that was finally the one that went in KU's favor--the 6th challenge out of 6.

If I was watching on TV at home I could be painting the house or knitting a sweater or something at the same time, but sitting in the stands it was just boring as hell.

@DanR agreed and why then late challenge on the backwards pass in a 30+ point game in the 4th?

At least I don't have to hear 💩 From ksu fans Monday!

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@BShark That was a terrible game for the Big 12. OU just got eliminated from the College Football Playoff with that loss and now TCU is the Big 12's lone hope for a playoff berth. The other 4 P5 leagues all still have multiple teams in contention.

The ACC still has Clemson, Miami, and possibly NC State that can reach the CFP

The Big 10 still has Penn St., Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio St. in the hunt.

The Pac 12 still has USC, Utah, Washington, and Washington St. in the hunt.

The SEC still has Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida in contention.

The Big 12 has TCU and that's it.

Naaaah.

NC State, Florida, Auburn, Utah and Miami are not making it, nor do they have a realistic chance. Really Florida just absolutely no way. Already on 2 losses and if you think they can beat Bama in the SEC title game (provided they could even get there) I don't know what to tell you.

Don't think many of the others listed have super great odds either but I would say they have kind of a shot.

kjayhawks said:

@BShark shoot I went to the Central Michigan game. A game most thought we could win and saw a mac team cream us by 30. I figured today was a double digit loss. Honestly if i lived closer I'd go to most home games because stub hub has tickets for $10.

Honestly I'd rather watch multiple games from the comfort of my couch.

@BShark That was posted middle of the day before quite a few games ended, including Florida.

Just because I listed a team, doesn't mean I think they get there, just that they still have/had a shot based on today's games. I would also now bump Michigan down quite a bit after their loss to MSU tonight. Utah also looks like they might be in trouble against Stanford at halftime.

I think the conference champs from the other 4 P5 leagues make the playoff and possibly 2 SEC teams if there's a major upset in a conference title game.

@Kcmatt7

Fair enough, ISU beating OU on the road proves it. However, shouldn't KU at least keep up with the conference overall improvement? The only program that is in similar dire straights is Baylor which fell from grace because of off-the-field issues. Yesterday was embarrassing and most of the fans were gone well before the game was over, which for all practical purposes was half way through the first quarter. We are now back to being mauled at home by 40+ points by a middle of the pack conference team...and I would think the coach's job is pretty much on the line and I just don't see a game left where KU will be competitive let alone win.

There's is huge amount of money planning to be spent in renovating the stadium which will look even emptier if the team does not improve. I understand that in a way is a chicken/egg thing about facilities and program progress but I rather have the current stadium sold out and a winning program like in the Mangino years than a one third full, state of the art stadium and a mediocre program. AFH is over 60 years old and has had only minor improvements, mostly to install up to date electronics but the bulk of the facility is still the same with bleacher seating (what other elite program arena has this?) and still sells out every game because the basketball program delivers a quality product.

Most of my post is not a direct response to your post and it just venting frustration on the current status of the football program with no visible light at the end of the tunnel.

Stadium has to be improved!

@Crimsonorblue22 who rather see an improvement on the field. MM won when the stadium was much worse.

@kjayhawks KU made significant improvements to the facilities early on during Mangino's tenure that helped his recruiting. Anderson Family Football complex being the most significant of those improvements at that time.

Improving the stadium has to be the absolute top priority for KU Athletics and preparing for a probable move to the B10 after the Grant of Rights expires at the end of the current TV deal. Even more than the on field product, positioning for realignment has to be the #1 priority and imlroving the stadium will help significantly to build the infrastructure of the program which will increase the odds of on field success.

@Texas-Hawk-10 negative ghost rider, the Anderson family football complex opened in 2008 a long with the new practice fields. We won a flipping orange bowl with a worse looking stadium, the place looks better with out the track, new fence and a muilti million dollar locker rooms. No ones coming to lose in a fancy stadium. We need coaches that can improve players that have been in the program for 3-4 years something Beaty and this group have failed very very badly at.

We had to bus kids to kc 'cause of our poor indoor facilities-injuries! Updated facilities will only help recruiting. We have a dump!

@Crimsonorblue22 when?? It all doesn't matter as long as Beaty is here.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

preparing for a probable move to the B10 after the Grant of Rights expires at the end of the current TV deal

Unless something dramatically changes, I'm not all that sure how
"probable" that is!

@kjayhawks this year when the weather was bad

@kjayhawks All that stuff began prior to the Orange Bowl season. KU tried to raise funds to add on to the east side of the stadium after the Orange Bowl and didn't come close to raising the $25 million or so that project was supposed to cost.

Phil Knight didn't wait for Oregon to have a winning program before pouring millions into the program, he just started giving them money to upgrade everything. Same with Pickens at OSU, the winning came AFTER the investment into the program.

If the administration waits for KU to find a coach to turn the program around before investing into the infrastructure of the program, we'll all be pushing daisies before that happens. Post WWII, KU has had 4 great seasons, the 3 OB teams and the 1995 team.

We cannot expect to be able to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. KU has to improve their stadium to not only hope to attract a quality coach, but to also keep a quality coach when/if they find one. The 3 best coaches KU has had in the past 50 years either left for another program (Pepper Rogers and Glen Mason) or were actively seeking another job (Mangino). Having competitive facilities will not only increase the likelihood of landing a better quality coach, but also of keeping said coach.

@ICTJayhawk Big 10 wants to get the B10 Network into KC and has been interested in KU for a long time. When the Big 10 expanded in the early 90's with Penn St., KU and Missouri were both very legitimate options at the time and had invitations, but both schools declined and chose to remain in the Big 8 and move with the rest of the league members into the Big 12.

@kjayhawks If you legitimately think KU needs to wait for the right coach before rebuilding the stadium, you need to ask yourself this question.

If the best candidate KU can hire in the current situation is a guy who flamed out at Notre Dame and a guy who was a position coach, why should we expect another AD to find anyone any better? What incentive is there currently for a quality coaching prospect to come to KU?

A newly renovated state of the art stadium is a much better recruiting pitch than to have kids come play In the concrete mausoleum that is Memorial Stadium.

@Texas-Hawk-10 still not what you said. That upgrade wasn't early in MMs tenure. Baylors stadium sucked during their turnaround as did KSUs, TCUs and dukes according to a buddy that lives in Carolina and went to the KU Duke game a few years back has the worst stadium he's ever seen (including memorial in the 90s). Duke wins 6 or 7 games most years. Let's stop making excuses we will suck til someone with a brain runs our program and athletic department.

@Texas-Hawk-10
I HOPE you are correct about moving to the B1G...I would LOVE for that to happen. But unless football changes to even mediocre, I don't know that it's anything like a "given." Though it's nice to believe, I seriously doubt KU and/or Missouri ever had an "invitation" to the Big10 (at that time) in the 90s. Other than somebody merely saying something like that I have never seen a credible report of that being the case. The former President of Ohio State said he always though the Big10 SHOULD have added Kansas & Missouri in the 90s but he never said that was the sentiment of others or that it was even voted on by the Big10 or an invitation extended.
KC is the largest market we could add but as a media market it's only 33rd in the country, hardly a "get". The BIG could have added Missouri and the St. Louis media market as well when Missouri hiked it's skirt fairly recently, and it obviously didn't seem compelling enough for the B1G to do it then!
I really do hope that KU ends up in the B1G...and sooner rather than later. But, to think it is a "given" or a "slam dunk" is looking at it with rose-colored glasses rather than in the stark light of the day, in my opinion FWIW!

One quick fix for the stadium experience would be pushing the mute button on that *&$#$# scoreboard.

You mean it's to loud?

@DanR I agree, it's hard to understand how we can be this bad in year 3 of Beaty, returned 6 guys on defense and 8 guys on offense to go with 17 guys on the two deep from a year ago. We pretty much have 2 new corners and a safety, then a new lineman and QB on offense. They just don't make an excuse good enough.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

You mean it's too loud?

Screw the noise. Maybe the whole scoreboard should just be turned off. Then we could at least pretend we still have a chance for an entire game.

Kill the power?

@Crimsonorblue22

I am curious when and why this was necessary. Doesn’t KU have the Anschutz Sports Pavilion where the various teams can practice indoors if needed?

@ICTJayhawk Big 10 already has the St. Louis market covered with Illinois. Illinois might not be the dominant fan base in St. Louis, but it's significant enough that they didn't need Missouri to already claim a foothold in St. Louis.

Maryland and Rutgers were absolute door mats of programs when the B10 announced their additions to the league which were solely based on their locations. KU gives them access to KC which is the biggest market in that part of the country they don't already have a foothold in.

@JayHawkFanToo Not really a great practice facility for the football team. They have to bus over the team when they use it.

Not to mention, we could probably use a second indoor practice facility for everyone. On a crappy day, you also have to squeeze the soccer, football, baseball, softball, cheerleading and Dance (maybe even track?) all in that building in one day. And you have to do it around each team's schedule because their players have classes scheduled a particular way so that they can practice at certain times. Kind of a logistical nightmare for everyone involved.

@Kcmatt7

My point was that in a pinch, it sure would be closer than KC where arrangements would also have to be made with the facility, which I take would be the Chiefs practice facility?

kjayhawks said:

Wow it looks like less than 5000 people are at the game

Per KU Sports (the PDF of game results), attendance was 21,050. Didn't see the game. I was out and listening to it in the car.

I'm beginning to think the administration fears that fixing football will somehow harm the basketball program. Apparently, there is no way in this world to fix irrational fear.

@EdwordL

If this is the case, why would they be wanting to spend $250M to fix the stadium and football facilities?

I personally believe that if the team does not improve, KU will fall short of raising the money. The team should be fixed first and then the stadium.

If the team puts a quality product, the fans will come. They came when Mangino was winning and AFH, a 60+ year old facility which is substantially the same as when first built, sells out every game because a quality/winning product plays there.

@JayHawkFanToo considering all fall sports would need the 1 indoor facility, the need is great. I'm sure the players enjoy the rare occasion to use it.

@Crimsonorblue22

Are we talking about the Anschutz Sports Pavilion or another facility? I would think that football is a the top of the pecking order when it comes to schedule indoor practice time and the football team does not usually make it past November anyway. :smile:

I am still curious why the team had to go to KC and where in KC it went?

@JayHawkFanToo chiefs! Anchutz, to many sports teams to share-already said that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 "Maryland and Rutgers were absolute door mats of programs when the B10 announced their additions to the league which were solely based on their locations."

Adding doormats to get DC/Baltimore and New York Metro is not the same as adding a crawlspace vapor barrier in order to get KC.

I like your theory about upgrading the stadium. I see it as almost an emergency for the athletic dept (not for the university or state, however, so private funding only).

@mayjay Big 10 added Nebraska to try and get into KC and it failed. Big 10 expansion has always been about adding new TV markets for their BTN. KC obviously isn't the size of NY, DC, or Baltimore, but it's still the biggest market left for the B10 in the midwest.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard when the B12 was about to implode a couple of years back that ISU, KU and KSU were headed to the B10.

@kjayhawks It's possible, but I don't think the B10 has ever been interested in KSU because of their lack of AAU membership which Nebraska kept just long enough to get in. ISU has it, but I think they would be a last resort for the B10 because they don't add any new TV markets.

At this point, when the next round of realignment happens and leagues go to 16 and above, I think KU, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech will be their top targets. The wildcard is going to be Texas because the B10 has had interest in UT for a long time going back to the early 90's round of realignment when they added PSU.

kjayhawks said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard when the B12 was about to implode a couple of years back that ISU, KU and KSU were headed to the B10.

There seem to be as many "I have heard" stories as there are people as to what "was" or "is" going to happen. So far, I am unaware of any evidence that virtually any of them have even a nugget of truth in them. They seem mostly just "made up" to advance someone's hopes/dreams/fantasy/.

As to ISU being invited to the B10, it would seem duplicative to add ISU when Iowa is already in the B1G. Iowa being a small population state (though more people than Kansas), that hardly adds markets or anything else that doesn't already exist with Iowa being the only member in the state. (Iowa & ISU play annually and have since 1977). ISU is an AAU school and does generally fit the B10 profile but would seem to otherwise lack a justification for membership.

KSU would seem to be a longer LONG shot. Every B1G school is AAU (Nebraska was when it joined but later "lost' its membership). KSU is "not even close" to being AAU material (https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy). ↗ In fact, even KU is in the lower third of the organization for research money and there was a concern several years ago that KU's continued membership was in doubt. KSU would not add any "new" markets to the B1G that KU wouldn't add and in a state with a population as small as Kansas, there is no reason to have 2 schools (just as in Iowa).

As to KU, I realistically think that if KU was EVER offered membership in the B1G it would have taken it. Not only would the stability and prestige of the athletic conference have been a "step up" but the tremendous advantages offered by the CIC (now, Big 10 Academic Alliance) would have trumped any hesitancy to leave, especially during the B12 upheaval several years ago.

I have yet to have anyone provide any evidence that KU has EVER received an invitation (or ever will) from the B1G. Yes, I'm sure we've been "looked at" by the B1G as we somewhat fit their profile (AAU, new market, flagship university, etc.) but as to extending an invitation, I just don't believe that it has happened. I REALLY HOPE that an invitation IS forthcoming upon the presumed imploding of the Big12 at the expiration of the GOR, but until some authoritative source can provide at least some evidence that it has or is happening, at least for me I'll have to "see it to believe it".

P.S. Sorry, I didn't mean to "write a book"!

@ICTJayhawk General consensus over the years is that KU and Missouri had open invitations in the early 90's round of expansion to the Big 10.

During the last round of expansion, KU was generally considered to be team number 15 or 16 had the B10 expanded that much.

@Texas-Hawk-10 So, I don't mean to sound combative, but I don't know how else to ask, so don't take it personally. Here we go: general consensus among who? @ICTJayhawk asked for any source of that type of assertion. I have always thought it was a wish among fans to be invited, that over time aged into a regret at having turned it down, without the inconvenient intervening steps of an actual invitation or KU decision.

@mayjay General consensus among the people who covered college athletics at the time that had access to inside information courtesy of people who worked in athletic departments. AD's are not going to conduct business like that in public (unless it was Missouri's AD), but they also can't work in isolation either and there were absolutely people within KU's athletic department back in 2010-2011 that knew what KU's options were had the B12 imploded and that's how tgese stories get out.

People can mock a site like TMZ all day long, but they are very good at what they do and very accurate for amount of info they publish because of their insiders. The LJW staff at the time (minus Keegan) have historically had a great relationship with KU and the athletic department so they are more likely to be updated and kept in the loop via people with direct knowledge of the situation than reporters who don't have a great relationship with who they cover.

@Texas-Hawk-10 A bit of googling has come up with several sources talking about KU and 4 other B12 schools approaching the Big 10 in 2010, and that the Big 10 was interested, but those talks never got anywhere because of revenue distribution issues, and no one thought it could occur in less than 3 to 4 years. All of the sources I found with that story based it on a 2015 article in the Omaha WorldHerald, whose reporter talked with an unnamed former Big 12 AD involved in the 2010 talks.

Luke Winn of SI discussed the fate of KU/KSU during the anticipated possible demise of the B12 with HCBS and Frank Martin (then of KSU), and they were urging a revitalized B12. No one suggested KU was pondering a B10 invite.

Finally, this from Keegan 2016: "One problem with fantasizing about joining the Big Ten: The conference never has shown any interest in welcoming Kansas and nothing suggests that ever will change."

If the press corps from 2010 knew about the invitation you allege, I just cannot imagine how it never found its way to print, or how Keegan missed it so completely. Which is why I wonder if it was innuendo and rumor only.

It is possible that there are sources I easily could have missed, since this was only a perfunctory 5 page Google search. If so, I would love to see them because I really had never heard of KU turning down the B10.

@mayjay I never said KU recieved an invitation to join the B10. I said in the 2010 realignment that KU was discussed as the 15th or 16th team in the B10 if they expanded that much. We know the B10 didn't expand that much as they chose to go to 12 with Nebraska, and then 14 with Rutgers and Maryland shortly after that.

Also notice how Keegan is the one guy claiming no interest between either party. Every other source is saying there was at least discussions between both parties. Keegan was never the LJW writer to pay attention in regards to realignment, Tait was ways the one with the insider info and he had stories saying KU had discussions with both the B10 and P12 about Kansas joining during that time period.

It was also always reported that KU's first option was to stay in the B12 if possible and that the Kansas Board of Regents may not have let KU and KSU split because more members had KSU ties than KU ties at the time.

I don't think it's very difficult to see where college football is headed at this point. Neither ESPN nor Fox had any interest in seeing the B12 expand which most likely means the B12 is going to be picked apart when the current TV expires in a few years. Getting rid of the B12 just makes too much sense for the networks in regards to simplifying the College Football Playoff. Get to 4 major conferences between 16 and 20 teams each, split each conference into two divisions of between 8-10 teams, expand the playoffs to 8 teams, have the quarterfinals be the conference championship games.

Fox has deals with both the B10 and P12 already so they would get the rights to those two conference title games and semifinal game between the B10 and P12 champs. ESPN gets the SEC and ACC title games and semifinal game between those champs and then ESPN and Fox alternate the national title game each year. The expansion to 8 teams and that set up doesn't happen until the current CFP format expires.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Here is what you wrote that I have been trying to confirm: "When the Big 10 expanded in the early 90’s with Penn St., KU and Missouri were both very legitimate options at the time and had invitations, but both schools declined and chose to remain in the Big 8 and move with the rest of the league members into the Big 12." (Emphasis added.)

Your statement (and another that there was a general consensus that KU had an "open invitation") was about an invite in the 90s. I couldn't find anything about that at all. My post referred to 2010 because of all the B12 angst back then, but again found only one source regarding actual talks, dating from 5 years later in 2015 by someone who claimed those talks occurred. No contemporary sources.

Finally, we all know there might be issues with Keegan, but again, it is quite a blanket statement to say on the one hand that all the other reporters covering KU knew about it and that Keegan alone was out in the cold. No one talks to him and they haven't for decades? I think the LJW would cut him if they knew he had to make up everything.

Again, even one specific source would help here.

@mayjay If you want details on KU and Missouri in early 90's, it's not hard to find them. The best I can tell you to look at would be an article from Sports Illustrated last fall about the oral history of the B12. The B10 was pretty down at that point and hadn't won a national title in football since 1970 so staying with the B8 and going to the B12 where Nebraska and Colorado were two of the dominant programs in the country at that time and winning national titles at that time was the better athletics option. People were legitimately shocked at Penn St. joining the B10 then because they were title contenders at that point, but it only took a recruiting cycle for them to fade out of the title picture as well.

That article features quotes from many prominent figures directly involved in the formation of the B12. The most interesting thing in that article is that Stanford might have been the biggest reason why the B12 ever formed in the first place.

I am on the side that believes all these alleged invitations are mostly wishful thinking. The talk a few years ago when the conference almost imploded was that Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas Universities were being considered by the PAC12 but states insisted that the kid brothers, i.e. Texas Tech., OSU and KSU needed to come along which put a stop to that version. Again, probably some truth to it but more likely an exaggeration of what actually went on.

I do remember the Governor of Missouri and I believe the AD as well publicly lobbying for an invitation to the Big10, which in turn started the Big 12 crisis, only to be rebuffed with the corresponding and embarrassing loss of face.

I personally believe 10 is the perfect number of members for a conference and the Big 12 seems to be doing very well financially.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Now you have done it. Penn State agreed to join the B10 in 1990, starting to play games in 1993?

So, I am thinking that I didn't realize it was so recent! Wow, I thought!

But finally, I then realized 24 years is not, sigh, that recent after all.

So thanks for making me feel old. :anguished: