🏀 KuBuckets Archive

We have all suffered the embarrassment of being a KU football fan.

Today, we witnessed our players refusing to shake hands before the game. We then heard our coach dancing around the issue in the post-game press conference like a Hollywood puke trying to explain his demented personal conduct.

Here are the word of a coach that continues to put talk and style over substance:

"Let me say this: I get it,” Beaty said. “Our guys at some point in their careers, they just have to get tired of it. … They’ve got to get fired up about sticking their feet in the ground and defending their grass. I get it.

“We certainly are a (classier) team than that. We’ll talk about it as we move forward and we’ll make sure we represent our university and ourselves with class. … But I do like the spirit our guys carried into the game. They want to win, and they want to be respected the way other teams are. We’ve just got to find a better way to show that.”

Uh, yea.

I see where a player said they were "putting their foot down." What in the he** does that mean? Like usual, a multi-touchdown loss.

This is a disgrace, and today was an unbelievable display of poor sportsmanship. I cannot fathom why or how this was a good idea. This does not show strength, it shows weakness.

Of course, like his horrible predecessor, Beatty continues to find a way to present a new uniform and helmet combination every game. As I said with Weis -- style over substance.

WIN FIRST. We can giggle of what helmet and uniform combo you've directed we wear perhaps after we gain some real success.

Today was symbolic of a coach that is flailing to find something, anything, to create a win.

This was the final straw. The actions by the captains -- yes captains -- today represents this entire university. It is how Kansas is presented to the football world. And our coach explains it away as it if means nothing.

He has no compass. If this is how he leads his players, no wonder the notorious know it all is an epic failure.

Guess what, coach? You've got nothing. Zero. Except a pile of lopsided losses after three full seasons to make "progress."

Want a lesson in leadership? Look west down I-70. Or just down the street at AFH. I cannot even imagine either of those historic leaders sanctioning what we saw at the coin flip today.

Fire Beatty. Fire him now.

And PLEASE, PLEASE take Zenger with him!!!!

@HighEliteMajor I admit that my expectations for KU football are exceptionally low so I'm not as upset about it as others are. Still the optics are bad, very bad.

@HighEliteMajor I can't say on here what I think of today's performance before, after and during the game, toomany folks would be offended or upset. Beaty should've been out weeks ago with Zenger but apparently they can talk their way outta of anything. Maybe he gets fired after a week 1 loss next year. We have more talent than ISU or KSU(both going bowling)just have a bunch of rejects for coaches. Paying this sorry group of con artist as much as a Pizza Hut delivery boy is about double what they deserve.

@HighEliteMajor Even if the hand-nonshake had not occurred, the last straw for me would have been not taking Defense (for nonwatchers, actually a player named that) out of the game after the inexcusable cheap shot into the OU qb.

We're BAD. Man, sooooooo BAD! Nice to know that their attitude was fiery but this was delusional swagger with nothing to back it up.

If you are crappy, having class can be a saving grace, letting a team still leave the field with heads high. Beatty and the team must have forgotten that.

Mangino's weighed in. His comment - "What kind of strategy is that?"

Those were the good old days.

@mayjay yes, I'm not sure why we would fire up,the leading heisman candidate on a cool windy day vs the last place team that really had no reason to be. SMH just stupid and classless.

As Gunny Highway would say...a cluster f**k.

Doug Gottlieb (not our favorite source) referred to KU football as the "opposite" of KU basketball -- "talentless and classless."

Very nice.

@HighEliteMajor

FWIW, OU was not that classy either ↗...just sayin’...

...and he issued an apology ↗ for his behavior...

@JayHawkFanToo
No apology from Beatty or the players at our university. It's interesting how ESPN focuses on Mayfield. Though Mayfield is famous for his low level behavior, I'm quite sure without our faux toughness to start the game, and the late hits during the game, the situation doesn't deteriorate in a game of this .. uh .. magnitude.

I'm just puzzled how KU's football leadership can't see how this is all about weakness, not showing toughness.

I’m just glad they showed a little emotion. I thought the players had completely given up. Now if the leadership could channel it into something constructive we’d have something. As it is it’s not pretty, but at least they weren’t grabbing their crotches and yelling f you at the other team.

I hope Beaty can figure out something positive to do with that energy in the next game.

@dylans And what gives you such hope??????

@HighEliteMajor

I don’t disagree with you, I quoted “Gunny Highway” above with my opinion on the state of the program and it is not good.

I was looking up the word "futility" in the dictionary the other day and I saw a picture of KU football. deadpan

@ICTJayhawk definitely not past history.

If you are the football conference champions, your QB should lead the way in every way. He of all people should show why they are champions. IF KU slighted the Heisman cry baby, he should grow up and lead. I want to know if he was taunting the captains at midfield with insults during the coin flip. My guess is, he was talking some smack and trying to get some kind of response. They may have ignored him and inadvertently failed to shake his hand. I don't think the KU players were that stupid to add insult to injury by deliberately contributing to this mess. Not only did Mayflower act stupid, but he continued to act like a moron. The cheap shot may have been a response to the coin flip. But KU will likely never say if it started at the coin toss.

BTW...If he wants KU to stick with basketball, then he should tell Lon Kruger and the OU basketball team to stick with football? Doesn't that converse comment make sense and warrant at least for him to consider. Or better yet, maybe he should apologize for equally insulting his own basketball program and all the OU sports by implying that football is the only sport at OU.

Typical American sports to condone this behavior and thus teach kids it's ok to act like an idiot as long as you are a good player, or winner. I wonder if Lincoln will bench him during the next game for his behavior? Or reprimand him for making the program look horrible? I doubt it, because his job is on the line too to win a NC. Oh wait, he apologized.

@HighEliteMajor I like your suggestion, but who do you go to from here? KU would have to be extremely intentional in the next coaching search. We are getting desperate and already at the bottom of the barrel. How do we go up and convince a competitive coach to coach the KU football program? At this point, I'd take a coach that could recruit a competitive team. Beaty had a chance to win one and maybe two more games, but blew it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 2-3 wins is NOT too much for this program. Maybe under Beaty, but surely there is a coach that can put a game plan together to beat a winless BU team. We also had a chance against Texas and possibly KState.

@mayjay LOL...we're so bad, we make bad teams look...not bad.(

@Lulufulu You must have misread Lulu - " Futility " is what they strive for. They are a long ways below that now.

So, Jim Mora?

@truehawk93 The KU captains all had their hands behind their backs. It is far easier to imagine that they are stupid enough on this team to antagonize a Hesman candidate than it is to believe all three simultaneously came to that response to trash talk without talking to each other.

I was busy all weekend and didn't get to watch the game until this morning. Baker Mayfield is an assclown, but what KU did at the coin toss and Defense's cheap isn't defendable. It was low class and completely lacking in sportsmanship and Beaty not holding them accountable has pushed me to the other side of the fire him/keep him issue.

I could deal with the losing for another year as part of the big picture plan to set the next coach up for success early on with a full cupboard of scholarship players, but that crap on Saturday is indefensible.

@mayjay Hell no to Jim Mora. Mora is someone who has progressively gotten worse at UCLA. That's another Charlie Weis situation waiting to happen at KU.

I'd like to see KU make a run at Craig Bohl at Wyoming. He's the architect of the North Dakota St. dynasty. He's also not likely to get the Nebraska job that should be coming open this year because that is Scott Frost's job if he wants it. Bohl is going to be their back up plan.

I didn't care about the pregame handshake thing. Not a big deal.

The late hits bother me, though. That's dangerous and stupid. I've been backing Beaty for a while, but the late hit stuff makes me re-think that support. If Beaty thinks being physical and tough means taking late hits and stupid penalties, KU will never improve under his leadership. He's just going to get people hurt for no reason.

I am officially reversing course on Beaty. This may need to be his last year at KU.

@justanotherfan I disagree about the handshake thing not being a big deal. Players actions reflect their "leadership" and if their coach is ok with a classless move like that, then we need new leadership. You can get away with BS like that if you're a top notch team with superior athletes, but when you're a no talent team like KU (sorry - it's the truth), you at least need to act like decent human beings.

@nuleafjhawk Agreed. I can see refusing after a game if the other team has been cheap-shotting or acting like jerks--but before the game is a ritual designed to help players adhere to the rules of gentlemanliness and sportsmanship. Obviously, not shaking hands for KU was a precursor. Yay, team, make me proud.

@justanotherfan

Late hits tend to be spur of the moment, frustration type of actions; I would be shocked if it was planned and I don’t believe any coaching staff would be that irresponsible...or stupid. The handshake though appears to be planned and reflects extremely poorly on the team, staff and the school at large. The lack of reaction/response by Beaty appears to indicate prior knowledge and acquiescence and could give Zenger cover to fire him. I don’t believe Zenger will fire Beaty since it would mean that he has to go as well.

@JayHawkFanToo

I didn't mean to imply that the late hits were "planned". But the late hits, IMHO may have grown from a targeting of Mayfield that KU players decided they were going to "get" him. That's what I meant by saying if Beaty implied that KU wanted to be physical and tough, and that's how the players took it, its time to re-examine that approach. If that attitude came from not shaking hands, then that's on Beaty as well.

I just know that when I was officiating football, we had a couple of games where because of rivalries and such, the teams did not shake hands pre-game to avoid any back and forth between them. Helped keep things at bay rather than letting things get started before kickoff.

@justanotherfan

I think we can safely rule out a football rivalry between KU and OU... :smiley:

@justanotherfan Are you serious? The pregame handshake deal didn't bother you? Good grief. The first person I've heard say that. This is easy right and wrong stuff. There's not a gray area here.

Good to see Beatty -- belatedly -- react to the overwhelmingly negative reaction and somewhat reverse his position.

@HighEliteMajor

Here's my thing. On the scale of sportsmanship, things like late hits and other dangerous plays that could injure people, shaking hands before the game is a relatively small thing. If not for all the other stuff, the pregame shenanigans probably wouldn't have amounted to anything.

Like I said, when I used to officiate, we had a few games where things were chippy between the two teams, so they did not shake hands before the game, but played a clean game. I've also seen situations where rivals shook hands before the game, there was bumping, etc., and before you knew it, things were escalating during the game.

As an official at the time, I would rather the teams not shake hands and keep it clean than shake hands in a show of "sportsmanship theater", then get into a chippy, cheapshot filled game.

Should KU have shaken hands with OU - yeah, they should have. But I can live with the fact that they didn't. I cannot tolerate what I would consider to be dirty play.

@justanotherfan Had you been the crappiest team in the country and on national TV at the time, would you have been as cavalier about your players focusing on synchronizing efforts to piss off a 9-1 team in the ceremony?

@justanotherfan I read what you wrote about being an official. That has nothing to do with this. This is a coach issue. Whether there was an issue of hostility in a particular game or rivalry where you wanted to keep folks apart for a specific reason, is a completely separate issue.

In this case, there was none of what your are referring to. This was a completely separate issue -- not what some official might want is a certain situation (which is much different many times than what actually should be done).

This was a contrived and planned act of disrespect by team captains. I would hope you would not tolerate that as well as opposed to minimizing simple acts of civility and respect. Such acts, I guess, have been normalized by the deterioration of general humility in favor of selfish and self-centered behavior.

Shaking hands as combatants before a game is an historical and customary act of respect. We chose to permit the OU player to extend his hand, only to turn away from it. That deserves more than ok, "yeah, they should have." I think your reaction is exactly what we got from our coach. And It's really pretty sad.

Which came first? Shake their dang hands! The other crap doesn't happen. Our captains wanted to get in his head and it worked. Problem is, we still suck and we look even worse. We need the big 12 to look good.

@justanotherfan There was nothing that happened in the pregame to warrant not shaking hands. It wasn't a situation where two rivals were getting after each other in the pregame and you avoid a handshake to avoid inciting a potential incident. This was just a low class move by KU's captains and has brought negative attention to a football program that doesn't need any additional negative attention.

I'm betting hiring Les Miles with Tony Hull retained could keep any of the Louisiana recruits that haven't already backed out.

My point was not that not shaking hands wasn't a big deal to me personally. The times when we as officials did not have the captains shake hands, it was at the request of the coaches, not something that we as officials decided (most times, we were not involved in that sort of stuff). We just abided by the request.

Obviously, that's not what happened here, but again, pregame handshake is, for me at least, not that important. As I said, I can be okay with them not shaking hands, but being a team that appeared to take cheapshots during the game was something that I couldn't accept. That was what made me mad at Beaty and the team. You can be a crappy team that's overmatched and I would be patient. You can't take cheap shots. That's low class.

The Big 12 as now publicly reprimanded Mayfield ↗ and also the four KU captains ↗. What a pathetic situation.

And our players won't be captains. Will our coach not be the coach?

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21505885/three-kansas-jayhawks-lose-captain-title-snubbing-oklahoma-baker-mayfield ↗

dylans said:

I'm betting hiring Les Miles with Tony Hull retained could keep any of the Louisiana recruits that haven't already backed out.

I'd take Les in a second but I don't think he would take the job.

Honestly I think the whole Mayfield deal has gotten its five minutes of fame and everyone should let it go. Players talk trash all game every game. That being said it was stupid and Beaty looks like a fool for supporting it after it happened, then 3 days later coming down on them. I'm just over it and happy we only got one more beat down to go.

Heisman hopefuls don't generally yell f--- at the crowd though, then grab their crotch.

@Crimsonorblue22 Manzel did worse and Winston had a whole list of issues.

@kjayhawks yes you are right. Probably got more than 5 minutes.

@kjayhawks

Unfortunately the KU players and HC did it to themselves by bringing attention to the already pathetic program and amplified it by making it unsportsmanlike as well...at least and at long last the season that started with so much hope is almost over.

@BShark He won't. Nor will ANY established, well respected coach. If we are ever to win more than one game a season, we'll have to luck into a coach like K-State did.

@kjayhawks Mayfield was arrested for public intoxication, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and fleeing in Arkansas back in February. Sounds like Manziel territory to me.

@Texas-Hawk-10 and he’s 5’11” also. I predict a flameout in Baker’s short NFL future likely with the Browns after they ruin Kizer.

@nuleafjhawk I agree with you, but how do you know Mayflower wasn't chirping insults to the KU captains? How do we really know how the whole handshake thing transpired? We will really never know. Of course, the rumor is they 'planned' the whole stupid mess.
But here's my question, do you really think the CAPTAINS of all people could be that stupid to not shake the hand of the highly favored team.? You're in last place, why in the hell would you add insult to freakin' injury by doing something so stupid?
If they did plan the whole handshake incident at the coin toss, then not only are we a losing football team, BUT a stupid team of players, CAPTAINS, no less...Either way our football team couldn't get any more RIDICULOUS. If the players were responsible, why did Beaty apologize? Why not the players? This tells me that Beaty stood up for the players and took this on himself.
Baker Mayfield is a sh!thead. He was pulled over for a DUI in Arkansas. They had to chase him down on foot and tackle him. The OU program swept it under the OU rug. This is what they do for their players at all costs to win. I think Mayfield instigated and agitated the whole mess. We'll never know what transpired before that coin toss. OU fans are blaming the KU players. So, again, not only are we a terrible football team, but we are a stupid football team.

(

@Crimsonorblue22 Sad day for college football

@truehawk93 Ya hearing for other sites t5hat Mayfield was talking smack with the Ku team all during warmup before the game - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@truehawk93 Seems like the best evidence is the captains' words themselves. They plaanned it, right before. No allegation of it being provoked. Speculation of another scenario is pretty much fantasy.

Beatty apologized because as coach he is the face of the team to Jayhawk Nation and the world.

@truehawk93

Those cops tackle much better than KU players. I wonder if they have any eligibility left. :smile:

It's Beaty, from the grammar police.

Mangino for coach! He wasn't the classiest of people either, but to do what he did here was one of the most underrated coaching jobs of all time.

@wissox I'm sorry, but absolutely not. Mangino was overrated as a coach. He came to KU as a supposed offensive genius, but it took him 6 years to finally have a good offense.

His Big 12 W-L was also horrible when he faces a very weak Big 12 schedule on a near annual basis. The Big 12 North was hot garbage in the mid 2000's and he had plenty of years where he never dealt with OU or Texas and had the weak half of the South and still finished 18 games under .500 in Big 12 play. The Big 12 is much more difficult now than it was back then, and Mangino also wouldn't have the luxury of 4 cupcakes in nonconference like he did then.

I'll say right now that I think Glen Mason was the better coach of the two.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Well put. I don't pay that much attention to KU football so any comments I make have to be taken with a grain of salt!

@wissox The most telling thing to me about the perception of Mangino nationally was that there were no major programs interested in him in 2007 or 2008 when his value was at its peak.

@Texas-Hawk-10 @wissox I'd take Mangino over any of fools we've hired since him, hell Terry Allen was better . Mangino was mediocre for sure but he still one of the best coaches we've ever had.

kjayhawks said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 @wissox I'd take Mangino over any of fools we've hired since him, hell Terry Allen was better . Mangino was mediocre for sure but he still one of the best coaches we've ever had.

Y ou and me both - I'd take him in a minute, but there is no way in Hell he would every come back to this pile of warm doo. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@kjayhawks I really wouldn't at this point because I don't think he would do much to improve KU with the current scheduling set he'd have to deal with now. He might get KU to 2-3 wins per year which is basically what Gill and Weis were doing.

@Texas-Hawk-10 he's not gonna come back of course but I'm bet he would've averaged 5 or 6 wins in the time span he was gone. I bet he wins 5 games in Gills first year, one other thing to consider is we had a solid recruiting class that fell apart when he resigned.

@kjayhawks No way Mangino wins 5 in 2010. KU had no QB because Mangino never developed a back up/successor for Reesing. That's why Kerry Meier was officially the back up QB for 3 years despite also being a top receiving target for 2.5 of those years.

The other issue is KU's defense was still going to be crap that year because Bowen would've still been the DC and we would've seen the defense continue to regress under him like it did the 2 years prior.

Let’s see, when was the las time KU had 5 or 6 win? 5 or 6 wins sounds pretty good now.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I'll agree to disagree with you buddy. One of the recruits that backed out was a 4 star QB from Tennessee, Kale Pick was never given a fair shot at QB. He was a duel threat QB that ran the ball well in 2009 as a back up that Gill for some odd reason never let run. Gill and Chuck Long's offensive plan vs NDSU cost us the game with run up the middle twice and then pass. Pick,was benched at the half of that game after mustering 3 points but we had a missed FG and a tipped ball that lead to a pick in the end zone. Pick actually moved the ball better than Webb, who in the second half got 0 points. Webb speaking statically is arguably the best QB since Ressing but who knows how Pick could've faired if given more time after all benching a first year starter at the half baring 3 or 4 turnovers just seems stupid to most folks.

I also wonder what would've happen if Bill Young would've stay. He's honestly not done too well since leaving after the orange bowl but man the last 3 or 4 defenses he had here were solid and a couple of those years flat out great.

@Texas-Hawk-10 That's because, of on top of his salary, he had an "all you can eat buffet" clause in his contract and no local restaurateur would allow his hiring.

@nuleafjhawk One of the first questions we discussed in my first year law school Contracts class was based on his allegedly "rather sizeable son".

He said, if his son went to the all-you-can-eat buffet that had no hours of service posted, how long could he continue to eat? Could he stay all day? Through both lunch and dinner? Force the restaurant to stay open as he consumed their vittles?

@nuleafjhawk That's just an insane statement. - -So what your saying is your one of the ones more concerned about Maningo's weight then his coaching ability. - I could give a rats ass about coach Mangino - -had no effect on how he coached - -mercy. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54 I think you're related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

nuleafjhawk said:

@jayballer54 I think you're related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

I love your warped sense of humor! But I think Jayballer is right, you must be slightly insane, but so am I, and I've got the papers to prove it. (ex sox announcer jimmy pearsall quote)

@jayballer54 I do not have your confidence that Mangino's weight had no effect on his coaching. It is a proven fact, like it or not, that persons who are obese face a significant amount of discrimination socially. I have a hard time believing that testosterone-laden adolescent potential recruits, so focused on their own fitness and development, would all have been unwilling to disregard any negative attitudes toward an overweight coach who was even the subject of at least a few negative media comments by allegedly mature commentators.

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that health issues were related to the out-of-control stuff (anger? depression?) that led to his firing.

nuleafjhawk said:

@jayballer54 I think you're related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

Good , I'm glad you and I both were on the same boat with wanting him to stay - -Mangino was hard but I liked him - -he for sure didn't take the showboating on the field - but there were some that didn't want him touching their golden spoon babies that had been babied the entire lives - having anything everything handed to them. - They didn't want their babies touched handled - which I said - uhh you like him touching your boy - -then your boy has no business playing football - football is CONTACT sport, - did Coach hurt your feelings? - -step on your toes? - not just GIVE you what you wanted or let you display your sportsmanship on the field without consequences?

I know, I know - I don't need to hear people with their well that's not why he got fired antics - it was off the field, can't speak to that, I know ON the field I loved his approach, but NO WAY would he ever come back even if he was asked. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@mayjay Sorry I'm not buying that. - -I don't think it had anything to do with his Coaching - -plus I think he was a better person to let childish remarks about his weight to depress him or anger issues. - -Depression comes from many, many different scenario's - I mean never say never but seriously think that had anything to do with it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

I agree with @mayjay on this. Excess weight, or in Mangino’s case morbid obesity, almost always result in negative self image and the resulting consequences he mentioned. Also, it extremely unhealthy and often results in life threatening conditions. I lost 25 pounds this summer (I was somewhat heavier than I should be but nothing excessive) and I can tell you that I feel now a lot better physically and mentally. Last but not least, being that overweight sends a negative message to the players about physical conditioning; you will notice that most coaches look pretty fit.

@JayHawkFanToo understand, but there can be all kinds of reasons for the over weight. - the Number one being -over active thyroid a very strong possibility, my mom had that and was really overweight. - They can't help that if that's the case, I'm sure Coach Mangino was fully aware of it being bad for him health wise. I can see where it could be negative as far as the recruits goes, My biggest issue I guess in reality was - yes the cheap shots some people would say about him - -and in that respect I said wasn't effecting his Coaching, just making those people look really bad - they talking smack and him doing pretty decent with what he had to work with. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

I like Coach Mangino and I thought he got a raw deal with the way he was fired. However, it would be naive to state as a fact that his weight did not affect his coaching. Contemporaneous stories appear to indicate it did.

@JayHawkFanToo @jayballer54 I was focusing more on the impression recruits might have of him, and whether they should have or not is irrelevant.

The only people who ever tried to bully me were football players, and it was based on weight (all of 10 to 15 lbs). Fortunately, I won them over with my charm and quick wit. Actually, I had friends on the team who helped make it clear that the subject was out of line.

But Mangino was dealing with kids whose friends were not Mangino's friends. They were likely, I think, to make lots of negative comments about him to Mangino's targets, and cracks about what KU might be like. Speculation, perhaps, but we have heard adults do it (how many posts here have mentioned HCBS's weight as setting a bad example?). Hard to imagine kids considering other options might not be exposed to that negativity.

Like it or not, morbidly obese people face an uphill battle to be accepted. Whether due to physical, genetic, or emotional factors is irrelevant to this discussion, which is only whether his weight could have affected his coaching. I can't see how it would not have.

@JayHawkFanToo Could be Something we will never know. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@mayjay I hear what your saying, and understand - just another example of how sad and pathetic society is. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I personally think that whatever a coach's perceived flaw, it is largely ignored when he is winning, and it is highly focused upon when he is losing.

I always think of Tom Coughlin. Not a players' coach. When he was winning, his disciplinary style of coaching was celebrated. When he lost, he was attacked for being to strict. Then he supposedly became more of a players' coach. And that was criticized when he lost. We saw the same dynamic here. When Mangino was fired, we brought it a supposed players' coach in Turner Gill; then flipped the script to Weis. But that wasn't the direct reason he was fired.

With Mangino, his boorish attitude with boosters and administration was his ultimate downfall, because petty little non-football types were offended. At the first opportunity, the sharks circled and took him out. He didn't create a depth of loyalty. I have very good info (and I rarely say that) -- very good info -- that the Mangino deal was a pure, unadulterated witch hunt.

Back on the fat thing, it's not unreasonable for a recruit to wonder why a coach is focused on conditioning, when he looks like a zeppelin with really short arms. It's called being a hypocrite. But when you're winning, that is irrelevant because the coach "knows what he is doing." It's really that simple. When you're winning, it's easier to use the "I'm the coach, you're the player" logic. When you're losing, credibility wanes. Build it and they will come. And if you have a negative attitude with boosters and administration, and don't at least create non-enemies, you can't survive without winning. At the first sign of trouble, though, you're vulnerable.

@HighEliteMajor Couldn't of said it better - -well said -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Belicheck is another classic example. Complete curmudgeon, but the Patriots win a lot so he isn't going anywhere.

Over/under that Beaty stays?

@cragarhawk 😡 He's staying

sigh

@HighEliteMajor Couldn't agree more, winning is all that matters unfortunately. Mangino was a perfectionist and a an asshole from my sources that played for him but they all said their HS coach was tougher to deal with. He too was highly successful. At least we ain't Baylor and Penn State with sickening issues they've had. I think we saw the the same coach is mean crap with Frank Martin at KSU. It was fine when they made an elite 8 but terrible when they were preseason top 5 only to squeak into the NCAAs. They basically forced out the best they've had in the last 30 years because according to my KSU guys he was too hard on Will Spradling.