🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Well just read an article from the LJW. found some comments from Coach Self kind of interesting.

Was talking about De Sousa and saying that the NCAA might very well be able to look at his case as early as Tuesday, and probably would be able to play or what have you in a week or so. - Well that's not the interesting part - -it's what else he said - kind of surprised me some.

Coach Self said I'm not sure Mitch's minutes will go down even after De Sousa does play. He says he thinks it will be the perimeter minutes that go down as much as anything.

The reason? - Coach said he has preferred playing with 2 big's & 3 guards & reason # 2 - - -Because coach said he believes Lightfoot's attitude and unending hustle are among the best on the team. Mitch is a quality person and I'm so glad we have him Coach said. He frustrates me sometimes cause I want him to do more in some ways, BUT it's not from lack of effort - -it's more from lack of experience and opportunities.

De Sousa - -or no De Sousa - -don't expect Lightfoot's opportunity for playing time to go down anytime soon - - even if it don't go up.

Hmmm kind of interesting, kind of throws me for a loop. - -I really like Mitch BUT I just kind of took it for granted this is what would happen - -his minutes would decrease. - -From the sounds of what Coach is saying - - probably not. sounds like maybe if anything De-Sousa wil play outside on the perimeter and Lightfoot still at times inside. - I thought it would be in Mitch's better interest to put him out on the floor and let De Sousa play inside - -which he still might do both - very interesting inded. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Suprise? Suprise? I'm still trying to figure out why some persons think Mitch thunder should red shirt? I mean could understand if there was a plethora of super talented Bigs roaming the KU bench. Maybe next year will be different? However this year? KU needs Mitch. Big time.

Also think KU needs Preston to be true NC contenders. Love the idea of De Sousa coming in though. From everything I've read and seen. He's a junkyard dog.

DoubleDD said:

Suprise? Suprise? I'm still trying to figure out why some persons think Mitch thunder should red shirt? I mean could understand if there was a plethora of super talented Bigs roaming the KU bench. Maybe next year will be different? However this year? KU needs Mitch. Big time.

Also think KU needs Preston to be true NC contenders. Love the idea of De Sousa coming in though. From everything I've read and seen. He's a junkyard dog.

I agree , for what it's worth I've always liked Mitch with his hustle - get's dirty - - Read they have been impressed with Silvio - -Mitch really thinks as he says - -" a really cool dude " -- lol - -that's Mitch -everyone is a DUDE lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@DoubleDD Nobody is saying Mitch should've redshirted this year. Next year is when he may need to. Mitch is a Jayhawk through and through and his effort plays are infectious, but his talent level just isn't that high. Next year when KU had both Lawson, DeSilvio, and David McCormack roaming the paint, Mitch likely wouldn't see many minutes next year beyond mop up time.

You redshirt him next year, he still has two years to play when KU will need his leadership and he'll be close to ceiling as a player and can contribute much more than what he does now.

Self does not want to play 4 guards and chuck up 40 threes a game. Our roster has forced his hand. I don't care how many people think he has "changed", it inst winning basketball and he knows it.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Hey I'm just a social media poster. Who happens to post about KU basketball a lot. I just don't see how you sit Mitch this year or next. Experience is priceless.

Look I get what you and others are laying down. Are there more talented bigs to be had? Yep. Yet let's say KU makes a final 4 run this year? How do you sit Mitch after such a run?

It makes no sense to me. A great warrior isn't always the the fasted. A great warrior isn't always the most gifted. A great warrior isn't always the most skilled. A great warrior is more times than not one who refuses to give up and die.

DoubleDD said:

@Texas-Hawk-10

Hey I'm just a social media poster. Who happens to post about KU basketball a lot. I just don't see how you sit Mitch this year or next. Experience is priceless.

Look I get what you and others are laying down. Are there more talented bigs to be had? Yep. Yet let's say KU makes a final 4 run this year? How do you sit Mitch after such a run?

It makes no sense to me. A great warrior isn't always the the fasted. A great warrior isn't always the most gifted. A great warrior isn't always the most skilled. A great warrior is more times than not one who refuses to give up and die.

Self doesn't force red shirts. He talks to and is honest with players about their playing time prospects for the upcoming season. Then if the player feels it is in their best interest to redshirt, it happens. So it's up to Mitch. All our posts are just speculation. As for speculation on Mitch it's all about roster construction. Releford redshirted after his first year so it isn't even something unprecedented at KU under Self.

This team has probably about a 1% chance of making the final four though. I honestly don't see it at all. Taking bad shots is like, a feature for this current team. Imo a top 15-25 range team that will lose in the S16, maybe earlier with a rough 2nd round match-up.

BShark said:

This team has probably about a 1% chance of making the final four though. I honestly don't see it at all. Taking bad shots is like, a feature for this current team. Imo a top 15-25 range team that will lose in the S16, maybe earlier with a rough 2nd round match-up.

100% agree

If our season revolves around Mitch it will end as every other does

@BShark @BeddieKU23 You two speak the truth. Good, old fashioned Red Pill stuff. It will be interested to see how a 3/2 look might play out.

Who cares if we get to the final four? We're happy with conference championships, right?

@Jayballer54

My interpretation of your paraphrase of Self is this: Self wants to play 2 bigs and he needs three to do it. Thus, even if De Sousa were to step in and start with Azuibuke in a tandem, that would mean Mitch would have to backup Azuibuke for 10-15 minutes and De Sousa for 10-15 minutes; that's 20-30 minutes for Mitch, right?

In turn, if Self goes with 2 bigs starting and rotating a third big, that means that the 4 spot is no longer manned by a Svi. Since Svi is shooting 45% from trey, or roughly what he shot last season, that means Svi is the most reliable gun Self has, and he likely moves to the 3. That means Vick stays put at the 2 and Devonte at the 1. That means Malik gets squeezed to back up. Malik has some issues with role playing, but he appears the greater talent and the more developed player to me. So: Malik should get the backup minutes at 2 and Garrett and Malik will share the backup minutes at 3 and Malik will play 3 against opponents where Self wants to go back to four perimeter players (i.e., Svi at the 4).

Given that Garrett is going to be a 4 year type, and Malik reputedly has packaged himself as gone after this season, Malik is REALLY going to have to produce (and fit into his role) to beat Garrett out, even though Malik seems the greater talent. Garrett can guard and fit in already, and since Self has scorers in Devonte, Vick and Svi, what he is likely to value most, once he has a three big rotation, is defense at a wing.

But I still doubt De Sousa is going to be able to transition rapidly to D1.

Self is probably just trying to light a fire under Malik AND Svi to make sure they both understand they could be on some thin ice, if they let up. More than likely, we are going to see our 4-1 set pretty much as it has been for the rest of the season.

@BShark

I would think that everything that is being posted is speculation.

Breaks my heart to see KU fans believing that KU can't win with Mitch playing. Really sad.

Don't worry Mitch I got your back. Keep playing hard brother.

@wissox there is a sense of lowered expectations isn't there? Kind of disappointing to see quite honestly.

So how does that go? Hey Mitch love that you're a Jayhawk. Yet we really don't want you to play unless it's in mop up games. You know when the game is over. It doesn't matter that you're the only big that can spell Doka when he is tired or in foul trouble. It doesn't matter that you haven't lost any games for us and do a fine job of eating up minutes. We just feel it would be better to have a OAD big that will never really be a Jayhawk like you. We will only really appreciate you when your a senior even though we have rooted that you would be replaced your entire career at Kansas. Wel will complain about you playing wishing we had a OAD Big to take your spot, then we will complain about that OAD big leaving that took your spot.

Sorry Mitch. Just know some us KU fans love you to death.

@wissox you speaking for yourself?

@Crimsonorblue22 Should have used my sarcasm font

@wissox it was dripping

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@wissox you speaking for yourself?

There's actually some truth to it.

@Jayballer54 Interesting points. I hear Self basically saying from your observations is that Mitch knows the system, but seems to be struggling with executing what he knows. He has experience and knows the system, but Mitch does not perform at the level of Self's expectations. If Silvio knew the system as Mitch, Silvio would likely perform at a much higher level.'

We all know that Self rewards and is huge on knowing his system. He wants the players to execute his expectations at a really high level, but Mitch doesn't play at that level. It doesn't mean he's not a good player. So, Mitch has what Self wants, but needs to take his play to a higher level.

Mitch is the big man link of past big men. Lucas past the big man torch to Mitch, and Doke. So, you more than likely know what that means. Self needs Mitch to translate his system to the bigs.

Bottom line: Self needs Mitch as much, if not more than Mitch needing Self or playing time.

When we saw Mitch playing with Dok earlier (just once, I believe), we saw him moving more freely and very capable of executing in both offense and defense. I would even describe him as looking very fluid as he ranged to the perimeter, and moved inside and back out.

What Self said in addition to a few things pointed out here is that ML knows the system well and does his best, but hasn't had much opportunity to show what he can do.

In other words, playing the 5 he is horribly overmatched. He ain't Dok, but he has had to be pseudo-Dok for 95% of his minutes on the floor. Self clearly believes having another big opens up Mitch to be the cog he should be.

So, it isn't "Free Silvio!" or "Free Billy!" It should be "Free the Mitch!" so he can eventually be, BIM.

@mayjay I like rhymes

DoubleDD said:

So how does that go? Hey Mitch love that you're a Jayhawk. Yet we really don't want you to play unless it's in mop up games. You know when the game is over. It doesn't matter that you're the only big that can spell Doka when he is tired or in foul trouble. It doesn't matter that you haven't lost any games for us and do a fine job of eating up minutes. We just feel it would be better to have a OAD big that will never really be a Jayhawk like you. We will only really appreciate you when your a senior even though we have rooted that you would be replaced your entire career at Kansas. Wel will complain about you playing wishing we had a OAD Big to take your spot, then we will complain about that OAD big leaving that took your spot.

Sorry Mitch. Just know some us KU fans love you to death.

Ask Self, he's the one that recruited over Mitch.

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

I would think that everything that is being posted is speculation.

Breaks my heart to see KU fans believing that KU can't win with Mitch playing. Really sad.

Don't worry Mitch I got your back. Keep playing hard brother.

Where do you think Mitch can fall in the pecking order and KU can be a legit NC contender? He has offered nothing on offense for two consecutive games.

BShark said:

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

I would think that everything that is being posted is speculation.

Breaks my heart to see KU fans believing that KU can't win with Mitch playing. Really sad.

Don't worry Mitch I got your back. Keep playing hard brother.

Where do you think Mitch can fall in the pecking order and KU can be a legit NC contender? He has offered nothing on offense for two consecutive games.

I guess my question to you would be is we know where you think his pecking order should be BUT the question is WHY do you think Coach Self see's/looks at it differently then you do? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Jayballer54

I can tell you right now that Coach Self is not happy with our play. He isn't happy with our defense, mostly. He isn't happy with our overall hustle. He isn't happy that players take plays off.

Part of that relates to not having depth.

He is going to use our newly acquired depth to help rest players but also to help keep them motivated by rewarding hustle.

I've been impressed with how Bill has handled this team. He clearly wants to continue the streak and he is hungry for another National Championship!

First, here is a link ↗ to the article in question so you get it firsthand.

Second, Coach Self has always been high on Mitch and he knows better than all of us combined what he can or cannot do since he sees himself practice just about every day and we don’t. I know that some posters believe they know more than HOF Coach Self, this is just laughable.

Coach Self understands that he has Mitch playing way out of position and one he is not physically equipped for holding; the personnel shortage has dictated this course of action. Mitch should be playin more like Senior Ellis did, some PF but still being able to step outside and hit the 3 which he appears to be capable of doing. The availability of De Sousa would indicate that this is what Coach Self plans to do and thus the he will not see less minutes comment. @mayjay explained this nicely.

Unless he is an Embiid-like savant, De Sousa’s contribution will be limited for a while until he learns the system and how to play with his new teammates. By the end of the season he could be a contributor; Preston has been with the team a lot longer and is better equipped to provide an immediate boost.

Last, there seems to be the assumption that Mitch will red shirt, either voluntarily or otherwise. As strange as it sounds to some, many student-athletes take the student part seriously; one that enrolls in an Engineering program falls into this category and most want to finish their degree in 4 years and get started with their careers. If this is Lightfoot’s end goal, he will not redshirt.

Just my opinion and I don’t claim it is correct and I could well be wrong.

@JayHawkFanToo When college is free and I could be part of a blueblood bb program, I would do anything possible to make it last 5 years or longer if possible!

Jayballer54 said:

BShark said:

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

I would think that everything that is being posted is speculation.

Breaks my heart to see KU fans believing that KU can't win with Mitch playing. Really sad.

Don't worry Mitch I got your back. Keep playing hard brother.

Where do you think Mitch can fall in the pecking order and KU can be a legit NC contender? He has offered nothing on offense for two consecutive games.

I guess my question to you would be is we know where you think his pecking order should be BUT the question is WHY do you think Coach Self see's/looks at it differently then you do? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

We don't know how Self sees it. Self literally has no other scholarship options.

@BShark Correct. We will really see how Self views Lightfoot when there are other options. When I only have water and milk, I can’t drink orange juice.

@JayHawkFanToo If one values education, wouldn’t redshirting be an attractive option? Graduate in 4 years and get a fifth year of graduate school paid for? Further, it would be very smart if PT is in doubt during the redshirt year. A redshirt year would also make a graduate transfer available for year 5 if the lack of PT made it reasonable.

@HighEliteMajor Next year will be very telling and we all just have to wait and see.

@BShark What is a real possibility Is that Mitch can hit the 15 footer, can drop the high/low pass, and can allow us to play bigger with athleticism. We don’t know yet. Of course, the opposite could also be true.

Mitch appears to be the next polarizing player a la Lucas, Traylor, Morningstar....

BShark said:

Jayballer54 said:

BShark said:

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

I would think that everything that is being posted is speculation.

Breaks my heart to see KU fans believing that KU can't win with Mitch playing. Really sad.

Don't worry Mitch I got your back. Keep playing hard brother.

Where do you think Mitch can fall in the pecking order and KU can be a legit NC contender? He has offered nothing on offense for two consecutive games.

I guess my question to you would be is we know where you think his pecking order should be BUT the question is WHY do you think Coach Self see's/looks at it differently then you do? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

We don't know how Self sees it. Self literally has no other scholarship option

Not so sure about that, sounds like to me from what he was stated in the article we know exactly how he feels about Mitch. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Jayballer54 So what specifically about Self's comments gives you the precise insight into what he is thinking?

And what makes you think that anything Self says has anything to do with reality in two weeks?

HighEliteMajor said:

@Jayballer54 So what specifically about Self's comments gives you the precise insight into what he is thinking?

And what makes you think that anything Self says has anything to do with reality in two weeks?

HAPPY NEW YEAR. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Jayballer54 The fact is you have no idea whether Mitch would be playing at all if, for example, Preston could play and Whitman was still here (or Coleby). Please tell everyone that you think Mitch would be in the rotation if that was the case. You can't. That's the threshold of telling us what Self thinks. The fact is, Self had those players lined up as 1) a highly ranked recruit, and 2) a pair of experienced upper classmen.

Here is what Self said about Whitman (does this sound positive for Mitch): "We were thin up front and looking to add somebody that would be eligible immediately and was experienced," Kansas head coach Bill Self said after Whitman committed to the Jayhawks, per the Kansas City Star's Jesse Newell. "Somebody that is a little bit older, that understands the game and can come in and play a role with us in our big positions."

Of course, I assume we can all agree Preston would presumptively be ahead of Mitch.

And I'm assuming we can agree that if Coleby were here, he'd fit the 5 spot much better behind Doke than Mitch.

That should tell you what Self thought of Lightfoot. Whitman (or Coleby) + Preston = Mitch on the bench. You and the Lightfoot cheering section conveniently ignore inconvenient facts.

Of course, Mitch could have beaten both of them out. I acknowledge that possibility. It would be reasonable if the Lightfoot cheering section would acknowledge the much more likely and reasonable possibility that if Bill Self had it the way he planned, Mitch would not play much of a role this season.

@HighEliteMajor Thanks for telling me I have no idea, appreciate it, guess that's why I fit in here so well huh? And ya Light foot WOULD still be getting minutes if Preston was here, he would be giving Preston breathers AND Doke breathers.

You sure like to play the what if. - do you like to play the plain fact game? - Here is how you play the plain facts game. - - Preston IS NOT here eligible right not - - Whitman ran off like a bitch -- plain fact when he found out things wasn't working out for him - -plain fact if he was going to be getting his playing time why leave? -Plain fact - -Coleby IS NOT here. - -you like playing the what if's - to bad that's not reality.
You say what makes me think ANYTHING Self says has anything to do with reality? - -well seeing how he happens to the head Coach - I have a tendency to believe he has a pretty big say in what is reality and what's not - -just a guess on my part, but I would think that might be the case. -- -I'm not going to get into a war of words with you ok about this. - -I'm simply going off what came straight out of Coach mouth - you can either believe what he says or not - if you don't - that's cool isn't no sweat off my nutts - believe what you want it's ok. - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

The Lightfoot cheering section was just heard muttering something about the self-appointed realists spewing a lot of "buts" regarding events that seem to never have happened and "what ifs" about players who aren't here. And then a REAL voice sounding a lot like HCBS points out that he is currently playing Mitch and says he plans to continue playing Mitch. That damned cheering section, knowing so little about reality....

Easy to ignore reality when convenient. It’s like saying Jeff Hostetler was Bill Parcell’s choice, when Phil Simms injury was the only reason Hostetler played. Of course, I’ve been very supportive of Mitch and his hopeful development. But this is about the planned reality.

Some of the cheering section knows only what is, and ignores what was intended. It’s really laughable. Here’s further comment about Whitman - “We think Jack can certainly play the 5 but is a guy that can move away from the basket and play with a 5. He’s a great fit for what we need because we’re going to be so young up front and he’ll add some experience, hopefully like Tarik Black (during the 2013-14 season) did for us.”

Sure, Mitch would be playing over Preston and Whitman.

mean while back at the ranch. - - - yada - - - yada - - -yada. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@HighEliteMajor

I posted on a different thread before that the red shirt option would be more likely if he plans to get a graduate degree. Most engineers I know used to finish their undergrad degree in 4 years but maybe things are different nowadays; like I said, I could be wrong. :smile:

@HighEliteMajor

You are missing the most obvious fact...if those bigs would be at KU, Lightfoot would not be playing out of position at 5 and likely playing SF and hitting 3s from the outside. More likely scenario than yours.

Lightfoot is going to get minutes because we're going to the 3/2 for half the game. If De Sousa and Preston both get cleared, he'll still get minutes. I seriously doubt he will get more than 10 minutes a game, but if he does, then it will be because he has improved. I don't personally think he'll improve enough this year to warrant more time, but you never know.

@JayHawkFanToo No way it's more likely. So you think that Mitch would play over Svi, Vick, Newman, and Garrett (and now Cunliffe)? All five are better players at the SF spot (which is really a guard spot in Self's offense). He was recruited as a PF, always listed as a PF. Even the KU athletics site calls him a power forward, who can play "some small forward." Possible? I guess, but not this season. With a thinner group of perimeter guys? Maybe.

@HighEliteMajor

Sorry, I meant to say Stretch PF.

Mitch would be playing Stretch PF. Perry Ellis was also listed as PF and he was really a SF playing PF because of need. He did considerably better when he was allowed to step out and hit from the 3 just like Mitch would be if he is not stuck backing up Doke at Center.

The point was simply that we don't know what Self thinks of Lightfoot. Because his other options are Young and Sosinski. Self can say his minutes won't be impacted but if we also get Billy back and Billy and/or Silvio prove to be better then....

@JayHawkFanToo My roommate got his mechanical engineering degree in 4 years, but his class load was incredible! (That KU grad has stuff on Mars by the by) Many 20-23 hour semesters. I seriously doubt a basketball player has that much time available to him.

@BShark If we go to the 3/2, he's going to get minutes...even with Preston and Silvio being onboard. i figure it will take almost 2 months to get them fully worked into the rotation.

@wissox I get your point - but turn it around. In the history of the universe, how many different teams have gotten to the Final Four?

How many have won 14 consecutive Conference Championships? In what is arguably the best basketball conference in the country.

Just sayin

KUSTEVE said:

@BShark If we go to the 3/2, he's going to get minutes...even with Preston and Silvio being onboard. i figure it will take almost 2 months to get them fully worked into the rotation.

And the thing is , You know , & I know not IF we go to the 3/2 but WHEN we go to the 3/2 , the reason we will be going to the 3/2 is because we have Preston - -we have De Sousa , and like you said doesn't matter, Mitch will still get his minutes, if for nothing more to relieve - -Preston - -to relieve De Sousa - -To Relieve Doke - can get minutes from relieving other players whether it be because of fouls - -OR just rest -from those combinations - he will still be pushing the 10 minutes a game. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@dylans

I am not sure what or where your roommate was studying but KU requires 128 credits ↗ to get a BSME which translates to 16 credits per semester for 8 semester or 4 years, This is pretty typical of most Engineering programs which range between 125 and 135 credits depending on the school and program; mine required 133 which is on the upper end. Granted, the upper level classes are more difficult and in some cases considerably more difficult than the average class but perfectly viable. A class or two in the summer makes the load considerably more manageable.

I understand that a lot of students work though school to pay the bills and cannot carry a full load but when you have your tuition, books, room and board paid and tutors available as needed, finishing a degree, any degree, in 4 years is indeed very doable.

@JayHawkFanToo KU late nineties. No summer school. I'm not 100% sure if he started on the me degree his freshman year or like most students he changes his major at least once. He Graduated in four years, but he didn't play basketball for Bill Self either.

I believe most people refer to them as four year degrees because that's what it should take, but many less demanding degrees than engineering take more than 4 years due to course correction in a teenagers life. I'm glad you were so well prepared as an 18 year old to know how and what you wanted to do. I'm nearly 40 and still haven't figured it out. Maybe someday...