Companies have their finger on the pulse of America better than politicians do. Particularly younger generations. I thought the Serena Williams campaign was really good, but this takes it up another notch.
Not sure why they would use him as the face of an ad campaign but itâs whatever. Donât know that I get the whole lose everything ether, he was already benched and not going to be resigned. He has become more famous for his off the field stuff than his on the field. Weâll have to see how it works out I reckon, I donât know that it really bothers me or that I really care to be honest.
I'm not a fan of conflating his efforts with the Evil Nike Empire. You could argue that it's the easiest way to shape public opinion and while the easiest way is not the best way, it is much easier. Once you go commercial it feels like the beginning of the end of your original effort. The term "sellout" comes to mind. Maybe that's unrealistic?
This cannot possibly have been made for marketing reasons; no marketing person in his or her right mind would think that alienating more than half of your target audience is a good move and several interviews with people in the marketing business I have seen and read pretty much indicated the same thing; needless to say, there are many groups that think is a great move. It looks like it was done solely for political reasons and it might backfire big time. Maybe this will be the start of a loss of influence by Nike in the recruiting world and help Adidas???
For the record, I donât own any Nike product so if it loses or gains any market share does not affect me at all.
Stock down 3% today.
I think Nike looked at their demographic and realized that younger people are largely more in support of Kaepernick, while older people are more decidedly against. Now obviously, that paints with a pretty broad brush, because there are lots of young people that do not support Kaepernick, and there are lots of older people that do support him. But when you look at the general population, older people are the ones that will be more upset about this, and they are less likely to be the target demographic of an athletic apparel company.
I doubt it hurts Nike much long term. Their stock price fell with this ad coming out, but will probably recover if their sales stay strong (likely since they are the official apparel for most NCAA schools and many high schools. For most, these are multi-year agreements, so they cannot simply drop Nike due to this ad campaign. That means that even if these schools decide to change later on, that effect may not take place for a few years. I doubt any high schools or colleges are burning all of their team uniforms since they would just have to turn around and purchase them from Nike for this week's games.
I read an article that adidas was considering using kap for a marketing campaign, but Nike beat them to it. Instead of burning your gear, donate it to the less fortunate.
No way Adidas could have used him since he was all along and is still under contract with Nike and Nike just extended his contract through 2022.
@Crimsonorblue22 Nice link, and a nice block at the rim of the (errant) mansplaining shot. The link within that one to the yahoo article about people lighting their Nike stuff on fire is hysterical!
The salient sentence in the article is...Talks between Kaepernick and the executiveâs shoe company never materialized...
Sounds to me like a bunch of executives speculating over drinks and getting Nike to make what it could turn out to be a costly mistake.
Here is a better logo for their campaign...
!0_1536084688448_643A04E4-3FA8-45E8-8771-5A90C1954A34.jpeg â
Yeah...
Someone did the math for Nike.
Key sentences from the article that @Kcmatt7 posted:
The company also knows its customers. Two-thirds are younger than 35, and itâs an ethnically diverse consumer base, according to NPD Group.
That demographic tends to view Kaepernick more favorably than the older, less diverse population.
There were a lot of people that said NFL teams were making a business decision by freezing out the kneeling players. Nike is doing the same thing on the opposite side.
Additionally, there's this article â with the following quote:
There is reason to believe that Kaepernick, despite not playing, will move merchandise. During the second quarter of 2017, his officially licensed jersey was the 39th-best selling in the league. As an unsigned free agent, he was the only player in the top 50 of those rankings not signed to a team.
@approxinfinity I havenât bought anything Nike in several years, my mowing shoes are Nike lol. This definitely wouldnât force me to not purchase their products, Iâm with you on them being the original evil empire on sports. I donât know that I believe the rhetoric of âbelieve in something, even if it means sacrificing everythingâ from him because of what I stated above, he had offers to be a back Up QB in the league and declined them. I wouldnât pay him starter money at this point ether. If I was the Dolphins Iâd try to sign him because he could be better than who they they have but doubt heâd take it. He seems more interest in trying to milk out his fame in other ways. Hopefully Nike is willing to put money up to help single income families, thatâs where it starts IMO. The crap neighborhoods Iâve lived in that was the common denominator not race. I do appreciate Colin being man enough to donate to the cause. The whole burning of Nike or other products is wasteful and stupid, never understood that. If I really hated something like that Iâd sell it or donate it as a foster parent I can assure you there are plenty of kids that need clothes and shoes out there.
I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around whether this is a good or bad thing. It seems that moving to the mainstream and monetizing the protest brand will bring apathy. I haven't gone to the links people posted but unless money actually goes to meaningful places because of this, as @kjayhawks noted, this feels like a net bad thing.
@approxinfinity remember the crap Serena has gone thru too! đ
Remember that the older people are the ones with the disposable income to buy the high end gear. Regardless, even if two thirds of its base is sympathetic, can they really afford to write off the one third that is not? Even if 10 percent of the base stops buying Nike products, no amount of gear Kaepernick sells can make up for that.
As I said, I donât own Nike gear so I donât really count on their balance sheet; however, if Facebook is an indication, a fair number of my friends who spend a fair amount of money on sports gear indicated they will stop buying it.
@JayHawkFanToo same with most of my friends on FB. I just wonder what Nike was hoping to gain, the NFL has seen drops in viewership for the same stuff.
As they say...follow the money...
This article â presents a very interesting and plausible perspective of the real reason behind Nike's campaign.
@JayHawkFanToo Interesting, but not plausible. Essentially, the article states that China will subsidize Nike and Levi Strauss and others to take political stances domestically that undermine Trump and thereby his trade sanctions.
The contractual arrangements are interesting. But the author simply notes that the companies are adopting a couple of marketing policies that might not appeal to some Americans (ignoring the possible growth with other Americans).
The rest is merely conjecture.
The real sacrifice are the thousands of Chinese women making .20 an hour, working 80 hours a week in horrible conditions so Nike can pay Kap millions of dollars. The hypocrisy is profound. Just my opinion- you won't change my opinion, and I know I won't change yours.
@KUSTEVE I don't know if your comment is to me or not, but I do want to go on record as abhoring Nike's labor policies. I have never bought a Nike product and never will. I suspect that the money to Kap, however, will largely likely go to many of the causes he has funded with, I believe, millions of dollars. So, while it might be paid to him by a sweat shop, that money might have gone to someone whose only goal would be to buy a yacht, fancy cars, or another 18 room mansion in Palm Springs.
KUSTEVE said:
The real sacrifice are the thousands of Chinese women making .20 an hour, working 80 hours a week in horrible conditions so Nike can pay Kap millions of dollars. The hypocrisy is profound. Just my opinion- you won't change my opinion, and I know I won't change yours.
Yes, I am waiting for Kap to come out and make a statement about that.
Also let's be clear. Kap doesn't know what sacrifice is. He has made over 35M dollars playing a game, and is now going to be paid millions dollars a year by Nike.
đŚ View Tweet?s=21
REAL sacrifice
@mayjay My comment was about Kapertrick, not you. I confess I haven't read your post. Nike is a modern day slave trader, and they bought an activist who was up for sale to bring about political change so Nike could avoid paying taxes. If Kapertrick was truly concerned about oppression, brutality, and the worst form of racism, he wouldn't take a plug nickel from Nike. If Nike was truly concerned about racism and police brutality, they wouldn't do almost all their business in a country that has one of the most brutal human rights records in the world. Nike perpetuates this human slavery, and props up this repressive regime. Trump was going to hit Nike with import fees, so now Nike cares about human rights. The sanctimony, and the hypocrisy is deafening.
What real sacrifice did he make? The kneeling did not start until after he was benched. He thought that other teams would be making offers but they did not materialize and it was not due to collusion. After the process was in motion, ESPN interviewed a big name QB (his name escapes me just now) that was doing commentary and he indicated the two primary football reasons why he was not offered a contract, the first is because his skills were no longer those of a starting QB for a top half team and the money he wanted was that of an elite QB. The second and perhaps the more important was that Kaepernick requires a specific type of offense that most teams do not run and teams want a back up QB that can step in with the team's offense as run by the starting QB and not having to revamp the offense to fit his style of play in the middle of a game or season; in any case, he refused to be a backup which made everything else moot. The third reason is that he was and is still toxic from a business perspective and football teams are for profit businesses and owners do not like to lose fans and by extension revenue.
Keep in mind that even then he had 3 legitimate chances to get a contract and he sabotaged all 3 of them. Baltimore was going to offer him a contract but his girlfriend posted on Twitter something that absolutely killed the deal; he could have distanced himself from it but he chose not to do it. Miami was ready to offer him a contract but he chose to make a statement about how great Castro was knowing that it offended the large Cuban population in South Florida and once again killed the deal. Seattle also talked to him and all they asked was that he keep his political activism off the field like employees everywhere are required to do but he chose not to do it. I cannot imagine an owner in his right business mind hiring him under those conditions.
By the way, he is nothing but a hypocrite. He complains about Police abuse and yet he praises Castro who ran one for the more repressive and totalitarian regimes in history and killed more Cubans, solely because they opposed his regime, than police has killed minorities in this country (which is 30 times larger) while enforcing the law with the great majority (not all) being while following standard protocol. I am not saying that there are not bad police officers, of course there are, but there are also bad engineers and bad lawyers and bad doctors and let's not forget bad priest too. No profession is perfect and most cops do a good job under very difficult conditions.
If you have a chance, do a "ride along" with a police officer, many Police Departments have programs to do just this. I did one with a friend that was police office in the KCMO area and include some inner city neighborhoods and it was not even a busy weekend night and I acquired a completely different view of what they do, the abuse they take and a new appreciation for their service.
@JayHawkFanToo Preach my man!
@JayHawkFanToo Exactly, not only are people not buying his so called sacrifice but anyone in marketing should've known it was a bad move. Kaep has been against police and has been wearing cops as pigs for sock, so you're gonna lose cops as customers. He has been vocal about supporting Castro, which means people that are against communism and murder may take their business elsewhere as well. Its just not a smart move on many fronts IMO
The type of offense Kaepernick excels in is the type of offense run by the following teams:
Houston, Dallas, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Carolina, Miami, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Seattle.
Of those teams, Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa and Tennessee all have/had openings at QB. The football argument is a tired argument. It was about the protests. Just own that. Same as the Chiefs should own that trading Marcus Peters was not a football decision, now that they will be trotting out a bottom third secondary this season.
As for what Kaepernick sacrificed, he gave up his career, and a lucrative one at that. Perhaps you disagree with the reason why he gave that career up, but its a false narrative to think Kaepernick is not in the NFL now because of his football skills.
@justanotherfan He is not in the NFL because his talent is not worth the headache that owners and coaches would have to deal with. It is simple. If he was talented enough he would be on a team... You think is Cam Newton was doing this he would be in the same situation as Kap?
He is making more money now off of book deals and Nike then he would have as a backup QB so your he scarficed money argument holds no water.
Well, considering who the Panthers former owner was â, I think the Panthers would have probably cut or traded him. Whether he was blacklisted like Kaep is a harder question.
@justanotherfan It is actually not that hard of a question. Cam is a talented QB who can help a team win at the highest level. Kap is not. One is worth the headache and one is not.
@Woodrow Actually, the argument that "Kap is not worth the headache" is logically a concession that his protest, or at least the notoriety with it, is the reason for him not being signed. Call it a tradeoff: where unique talent exceeds backlash expected from notoriety, sign him; where notoriety is higher, don't sign him. If others at that talent level are all signed, then his protest is the difference.
I don't think this necessarily supports his collusion (oh, dear: that word again!) claim in arbitration, however. The supply of middle echelon quarterbacks means that is entirely possible to me that NFL teams signing backup QBs this year independently decided to avoid a radioactive Kap after considering the massive amounts of info, press, social media, ratings, and of course ticket sales.
You need to be more open minded and consider that maybe Kaepernick is no longer starting QB material. Stating as a fact that his protest was the only reason he was not picked up is being very closed minded.
As I wrote above, Kaepernick not playing is because a combination of reasons including but not limited to being past his prime, wanting to get paid elite QB wages when most teams consider him a backup, not wanting to be a backup only a starter and yes...being really bad for business because of his insistence on protesting on company's time, something no one is entitled to and something that fans do not want to see and thus negatively affecting the bottom line.
Open minded lol!
I have never thought Kap was genuine, but that is just how I saw it unfold. It's hard to believe a guy who just lost his starting job AND is hypocritical for so many reasons. (Of course my favorite new reason is making millions off of a company that is known for running sweatshops, and to this day, won't allow inspections to see the conditions of their factories. Factories that are of course in countries lead by dictators or known for awful worker's rights or the oppression of women. Some even hit the trifecta). So I never did understand the support of Kap.
But, he is talented enough to be in the NFL. Just not at $10M a year like he has reportedly wanted. His last season he threw 16 TDs and only 4 picks. A team would be lucky to have him as a backup. However, backup QB is about the last place you want to have a distraction. You don't even want to know your backup QBs name. So, is he worth having on your team? Absolutely not. But he is 100% talented enough.
Kap doesn't really want a job in the NFL. It doesn't fit with his and his handlers narrative.
We have gone over this a few times, but I just want to remind everyone of some of the QBs that will be starting for actual NFL teams this weekend, along with their passer rating from last season (Kaepernick had a rating of 90.7 in 2016, and will turn 31 later this year):
Again, this is just football reasons and doesn't take contracts or anything else into account.
Eli Manning and Joe Flacco (both at 80.4)
Blake Bortles (84.7)
Derek Carr (86.4)
Andy Dalton (86.6)
Cam Newton (80.7)
Marcus Mariota (79.3)
Now, here's a list of teams that do not have a QB on their 2018 roster with a higher rating than Kaepernick in either 2016 or 2017:
Buffalo, Denver, Kansas City, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Giants, Cleveland, Chicago, Jets, Indianapolis.
If we take out the teams that either have new, young QBs or a guy returning from injury (KC, Chicago, Indy) that still leaves us with 7 teams that don't have a STARTING QB on their roster better than Colin Kaepernick. Cleveland isn't starting Mayfield this year. Buffalo isn't starting Allen. Denver's QB situation is horrible. Eli Manning was past his best by date two years ago. Jacksonville might have gone to the Super Bowl last year with a QB better than Blake Bortles. The Jets QB situation is a tragic comedy. And Joe Flacco is basically Eli Manning with less famous siblings.
Saying he's just a backup is flat out false. He's better than maybe a third of the QBs that will start this weekend. He's better than basically every backup not named Carson Wentz. Heck, the most damaging thing the NFL has against them regarding the lawsuit is that the Miami Dolphins brought Jay Cutler (yes, that Jay Cutler) out of retirement to start actual live NFL games for them last year.
Like I said, anyone is free to disagree with Kaepernick, his protest, his methods, or anything else you want to. But saying its a football based decision is a false narrative.
@justanotherfan Saying he is a starter is flat out false.
He is 10- 22 in his last 32 starts (I gave him the benefit of two full season's of data. He is 4-20 in his last 24 games which is a season and a half of data exactly).
He takes a TON of sacks. He is one of the least accurate passers. He has one of the worst Net Yards Gained per Passing Attempt. He doesn't throw a lot of TDs, percentage-wise. He doesn't get a lot of yards just in general.
He is just not a starting QB. No matter how hard you want to spin it that way. It is simply a false narrative. I don't know another 31 year old QB that could go 4-20 in there last 24 games and someone could claim that player is a starter.
I'm going to give you a list. This is QBs who have won more games in their last 24 starts than Kap, but also aren't starters on their team currently. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Nick Foles, Chase Daniel, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, Chad Henne, Trevor Siemien, Jacoby Brissett, Colt McCoy, Matt Shaub, Brock Osweiller, Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith, RG3, EJ Manuel, Matt Cassel, Brandon Weeden, Teddy Bridgewater, Drew Stanton, Mike Glennon, and Derek Anderson.
That is 21 guys who are backups who have won more games given the same opportunity. So, what makes Kap any more special than these guys?
justanotherfan said:
We have gone over this a few times, but I just want to remind everyone of some of the QBs that will be starting for actual NFL teams this weekend, along with their passer rating from last season (Kaepernick had a rating of 90.7 in 2016, and will turn 31 later this year):
Again, this is just football reasons and doesn't take contracts or anything else into account.
Eli Manning and Joe Flacco (both at 80.4)
Blake Bortles (84.7)
Derek Carr (86.4)
Andy Dalton (86.6)
Cam Newton (80.7)
Marcus Mariota (79.3)
Now, here's a list of teams that do not have a QB on their 2018 roster with a higher rating than Kaepernick in either 2016 or 2017:
Buffalo, Denver, Kansas City, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Giants, Cleveland, Chicago, Jets, Indianapolis.
If we take out the teams that either have new, young QBs or a guy returning from injury (KC, Chicago, Indy) that still leaves us with 7 teams that don't have a STARTING QB on their roster better than Colin Kaepernick. Cleveland isn't starting Mayfield this year. Buffalo isn't starting Allen. Denver's QB situation is horrible. Eli Manning was past his best by date two years ago. Jacksonville might have gone to the Super Bowl last year with a QB better than Blake Bortles. The Jets QB situation is a tragic comedy. And Joe Flacco is basically Eli Manning with less famous siblings.
Saying he's just a backup is flat out false. He's better than maybe a third of the QBs that will start this weekend. He's better than basically every backup not named Carson Wentz. Heck, the most damaging thing the NFL has against them regarding the lawsuit is that the Miami Dolphins brought Jay Cutler (yes, that Jay Cutler) out of retirement to start actual live NFL games for them last year.
Like I said, anyone is free to disagree with Kaepernick, his protest, his methods, or anything else you want to. But saying its a football based decision is a false narrative.
I refuse to believe that you believe this. Either you donât watch football or donât know anything about it. Thanks for the laughs though.
KUSTEVE said:
The real sacrifice are the thousands of Chinese women making .20 an hour, working 80 hours a week in horrible conditions so Nike can pay Kap millions of dollars. The hypocrisy is profound. Just my opinion- you won't change my opinion, and I know I won't change yours.
Frozen rope out. of the Park!!!
KUSTEVE said:
@mayjay My comment was about Kapertrick, not you. I confess I haven't read your post. Nike is a modern day slave trader, and they bought an activist who was up for sale to bring about political change so Nike could avoid paying taxes. If Kapertrick was truly concerned about oppression, brutality, and the worst form of racism, he wouldn't take a plug nickel from Nike. If Nike was truly concerned about racism and police brutality, they wouldn't do almost all their business in a country that has one of the most brutal human rights records in the world. Nike perpetuates this human slavery, and props up this repressive regime. Trump was going to hit Nike with import fees, so now Nike cares about human rights. The sanctimony, and the hypocrisy is deafening.
Go Steve!
Nike might sign you to a million dollar contract too.
ç¸äżĄä¸äşäşć
"XiÄngxĂŹn yÄŤxiÄ shĂŹqĂng"
!0_1536211545981_20180906_002332.jpg â
Too funny not to share
@justanotherfan I think Kaepernick is good enough to start at a few select teams in the NFL. He declined his player option and has rejected offers to play. Not many QBs last with that record, that's a fact. He could be competing for the starting Job right now in Denver. I think it's a fairly safe assumption that he didn't because he was in with Nike and was gonna make good money.
@justanotherfan That and your list of teams that donât have better QB ratings include several teams with rookie or first year QBs starting. How the hell can they have better rating than Kaepernick if they havenât played. Come on Man!! Lol it honestly feels odd disagreeing with you, still love ya man.
@justanotherfan are you citing passer rating? asking for a friend.
Kcmatt7 said:
@justanotherfan are you citing passer rating? asking for a friend.
He is.
I would agree that on merit alone Kaepernick could probably have got a starting job, and definitely a back-up for basically any team.
He is not a great QB though and saying he is definitely better than all of those players listed is incorrect. I would say Kaepernick and Bortles are actually pretty similar. Each is better in different ways but the totality of it is about the same. Kaep's biggest problem is that he struggled to put any touch on his passes. Before all the drama and any of the kneeling my stance on Kaep is that he was overrated by many and actually pretty bad.
Flacco is absolute garbage though. He was a five alarm tire fire last year.
Kcmatt7 said: @justanotherfan
He takes a TON of sacks. He is one of the least accurate passers. He has one of the worst Net Yards Gained per Passing Attempt. He doesn't throw a lot of TDs, percentage-wise. He doesn't get a lot of yards just in general.
I also said this ^^^^^^^^^^. These are important stats. He has a low completion percentage, he takes more sacks than any other QB in the game (and has for years), and therefore he doesn't get a lot of yards. I mean that combo alone makes him a backup.
He also has a piss poor 3rd down conversion rate, yards per drive, and points per drive stats.
Dive deeper than a weighted stat that only measures 3 things. You're better than that.
BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@justanotherfan are you citing passer rating? asking for a friend.
He is.
I would agree that on merit alone Kaepernick could probably have got a starting job, and definitely a back-up for basically any team.
He is not a great QB though and saying he is definitely better than all of those players listed is incorrect. I would say Kaepernick and Bortles are actually pretty similar. Each is better in different ways but the totality of it is about the same. Kaep's biggest problem is that he struggled to put any touch on his passes. Before all the drama and any of the kneeling my stance on Kaep is that he was overrated by many and actually pretty bad.
Lol that 2014 season he played was when I knew he sucked. He couldn't hit a receiver if he was 10 feet away. And if he did, it was a bullet.
If not for him, that SF team might make the playoffs. If we want to use Passer rating, Kyle Orton, Mark Sanchez and Ryan Fitzpatrick all had better seasons. He also took the 2nd most sacks that season and had a horrible net yards per attempt average. Or, you know, things that haven't been fixed.
But of course, he had a better passer rating that season than Newton, Stafford, Dalton, and Foles so he should be starting for the Eagles, Panthers, Lions or Bengals this week lol.
Kcmatt7 said:
Kcmatt7 said: @justanotherfan
He takes a TON of sacks. He is one of the least accurate passers. He has one of the worst Net Yards Gained per Passing Attempt. He doesn't throw a lot of TDs, percentage-wise. He doesn't get a lot of yards just in general.
I also said this ^^^^^^^^^^. These are important stats. He has a low completion percentage, he takes more sacks than any other QB in the game (and has for years), and therefore he doesn't get a lot of yards. I mean those two combos alone make him a backup.
He also has a piss poor 3rd down conversion rate, yards per drive, and points per drive stats.
Dive deeper than a weighted stat that only measures 3 things. You're better than that.
The fact that I think he could start for some teams definitely says more about the quality of QB play in the league than it does Kaep being good, imo.
Also strongly agree with this. You can make a case for Kaep, but don't make it based on a terrible stat like Passer rating.
BShark said:
Flacco is absolute garbage though. He was a five alarm tire fire last year.
And they drafted Lamar Jackson so why would they need to bring in Kap?
My point is not that Kaep would be a top ten or even necessarily a top 20 QB. But I bet you he could start for five teams in the league right now, and that doesn't include teams that are starting young QBs like Chicago, KC, Houston, etc. But there are other teams that don't have young QBs that are starting QBs that are terrible (Bills, Jets, Giants, Ravens if they don't start Jackson, Broncos, you could argue Cincinnati and Arizona could be on this list also).
Kaep has definite shortcomings. I wouldn't build my team around him. But he's better than several QBs in the league now. That's the point I'm attacking. Not that he would be All-Pro or above average - but that he could, absent the NFL freezing him out, be a starting QB in the NFL right now, today, this week. He is not.
Therefore he did sacrifice something. There are many that wish Kaepernick was poor and destitute on the street so that they could rub it in his face because he offended their sensibilities, so they undercut him by saying he wasn't good enough to be in the NFL when that is clearly not true. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions on Kaep or his social positions. But saying he couldn't start in the NFL is still false because there are starting QBs in the NFL that outright suck, and some of those teams don't even have a young QB that they are building around. Maybe Kaep would be the 25th best QB in the league. Maybe he would be the 30th. But he would almost certainly start, and I guarantee you that in a few weeks, when some teams starter goes down with injury, Colin Kaepernick will be better than the guy that team chooses to replace him with. After all, Jay Cutler got the call last year.
@justanotherfan I can agree with this point and I do hope Kaep wins his collusion suit.
Here is one for all the Chief fans here.
justanotherfan said:
My point is not that Kaep would be a top ten or even necessarily a top 20 QB. But I bet you he could start for five teams in the league right now, and that doesn't include teams that are starting young QBs like Chicago, KC, Houston, etc. But there are other teams that don't have young QBs that are starting QBs that are terrible (Bills, Jets, Giants, Ravens if they don't start Jackson, Broncos, you could argue Cincinnati and Arizona could be on this list also).
Kaep has definite shortcomings. I wouldn't build my team around him. But he's better than several QBs in the league now. That's the point I'm attacking. Not that he would be All-Pro or above average - but that he could, absent the NFL freezing him out, be a starting QB in the NFL right now, today, this week. He is not.
Therefore he did sacrifice something. There are many that wish Kaepernick was poor and destitute on the street so that they could rub it in his face because he offended their sensibilities, so they undercut him by saying he wasn't good enough to be in the NFL when that is clearly not true. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions on Kaep or his social positions. But saying he couldn't start in the NFL is still false because there are starting QBs in the NFL that outright suck, and some of those teams don't even have a young QB that they are building around. Maybe Kaep would be the 25th best QB in the league. Maybe he would be the 30th. But he would almost certainly start, and I guarantee you that in a few weeks, when some teams starter goes down with injury, Colin Kaepernick will be better than the guy that team chooses to replace him with. After all, Jay Cutler got the call last year.
The Bills have Josh Allen, the Jets are starting Sam Darnold, the Giants have Eli Manning, and the Ravens have Flacco and Lamar Jackson. So no there is no reason any of those teams would need to sign Kap.
Just because Allen and Baker are not starting week 1 doesn't mean they are not going to play at some point this season. There is no reason for any of the teams you mentioned to bring Kap in. That is the reality.
@Woodrow Kaep, especially when he got froze out was at worst a bottom 5 starter. To say otherwise is pretty disingenuous and remember I don't think Kaep is very good.
The Jets started 38 y/o Josh McCown 13 games last year for crying out loud. Tyrod Taylor and Jay Cutler started 14 games each last year. Something called a Trevor Siemian started 10 games for Denver. It's not like QB play is at an all time high. The arguments against Kaepernick not being good enough to start for a team last year are full of crap.
BShark said:
https://www.chronicle.com/article/College-of-the-Ozarks-Drops/244446 â
Embarrassing.
I don't find this embarrassing for them at all. They have decided to select a specific position. That's their right.
It would be wrong for me to mischaracterize their opposition to Nike's position as being veiled racism, or being in support of police brutality.
Although, come to think of it, College of the Ozarks has mischaracterized Kaepernick and others that protest as being anti-US or anti-military, when the protesters have clearly stated that this is not the case.
But it's still wrong to mischaracterize someone's position when they have explicitly stated their position. In this case, College of the Ozarks has stated that their intent is patriotism, so I will go with that.
@JayHawkFanToo I hope you didnât ride w/her. BREAKING: Rookie Lawrence police officer said she meant to Tase man at traffic stop â accidentally grabbed, fired gun instead www2.ljworld.com/news/public-saâŚ
https://morningconsult.com/form/nike-kaepernick-report/ â
This is a pretty thorough report on the early returns or lack there of for Nike.
Here is another perspective â on Kaepernickâs performance which does agree with yours.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I hope you didnât ride w/her. BREAKING: Rookie Lawrence police officer said she meant to Tase man at traffic stop â accidentally grabbed, fired gun instead www2.ljworld.com/news/public-saâŚ
The link you posted is not working but I believe I indicated it was Kansas City, Missouri and included areas in the inner city. I am not sure how a Lawrence police officer fits into the narrative.
@JayHawkFanToo Do you have any sense of humor?
mayjay said:
@JayHawkFanToo Do you have any sense of humor?
Only on the last day of February on leap years. :smile: I guess you have missed the :smile: :smile_cat: emojis I often post?
Perhaps I fail to see the humor of a police officer using a gun instead of a taser and nearly killing a man. The greatest fear police officers have is having to fire their service weapon in a split second decision that has life changing consequences, not only for the target but for the police officer as well even when the shooting is fully justified.
@JayHawkFanToo you just don't get me, I should quit trying. I know you were talking about Kc police and I was talking about Lawrence. My uncle was a sheriff, my boys and I both have friends that work and put their lives on the line, every day. I would not be able to do that! But they are so many bad cops, racist cops, and if you don't watch the news, I guess you haven't seen those stories. You were talking in general about policemen and women. I was trying to point out that it's not that way everywhere. With police cameras the cases are obvious. It bothers me a lot. I believe a lot of the fault is in training. I guess you don't read the same stories.
Don't worry... Hahahaha.... Buyyyyy Nike ...... :notes:
Did everyone see the USA TODAY story about the Bartlesville man burning down his house trying to burn his Nikes inside? There were all types of radio and TV web sites picking it up and reprinting the USA Today byline. I saw those but was suspicious when I searched and found nobody else nationally was reporting it, so I went to the original story and saw immediately that it was an oddly-named site: usatoday-go.com. It was debunked immediately as a hoax by the Bartlesville media. The poor Bartlesville sheriff is spending undue amounts of time responding to inquiries.
The "fake news" site, when I looked this morning, has a banner saying that "This account has been suspended."
Fortunately, in this case they didn't use the names of real residents. People's lives have gotten totally upended from their names appearing in hoaxes like this!
I'm like this guy...I hate both parties. Should be required reading for all partisans:
http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/slouching-toward-okeefenoke/ â â
Serena Williams is out of control @Crinsonorblue22 . She wants to be seen as a powerful female who is a role model and fighting for women's rights, but really that seems to be a badge of honor she hides behind to go out on the court and be a horrible person.
@approxinfinity From what I read, there is virtually unanimous agreement among tennis players that despite acting much more abusively than Serena toward refs and umps, bad boys McEnroe and Agassi (and others) never were penalized a game by the chair. Nadal himself said he acted worse.
Frankly, I would prefer all abusive players get slammed. Always wanted Brat McEnroe to earn a forfeit. And if they had, Serena should be, too. But it is hard to argue that Serena was not treated the same as the men who acted the same.
@mayjay I get all that, and Agassi and McEnroe were 100% horrible a-holes on the court too and those two are from 30 to 40 years ago. This doesn't excuse her behavior.
I'm tired of hearing about her like she's a martyr or a strong noble woman, especially to hear her speak about herself in those terms. She's a spoiled mega-rich brat who happens to be female, have a child, have a strong frame, and be black. The latter set of characteristics do not make the former set invisible. She is not a likeable person.
Here's the quote, after the ref penalized her for being coached from the stance:
âYou will never, ever, ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar,â said Williams. âWhen are you going to give me an apology? You owe me an apology. Say it youâre sorry. And you stole a point from me. Youâre a thief, too!â
and then later...
âI thought he took the game from me, other men said other things,â said Williams, âI am here fighting for womenâs right and womenâs equality. (He) made me feel like a sexist remark, he never took a game from a man for saying thief.â
This isn't an isolated incident. Remember when she previously threatened to kill a line judge? I'm pretty sure Serena has the worst attitude on the court of any high profile ranked player, male or female (I'm willing to hear otherwise). Her reputation precedes her. I'm not certain that if her modern male counterparts said the same things they wouldn't get the same treatment. I guess we'll never know because they have more class.
Congrats to Naomi Osaka! Sorry your childhood hero is a horrible sport and overshadowed your victory by making it all about her.
Serena was getting her ass kicked. Didnât like it and has always been a sore loser. So she made a spectacle of it to turn all the attention on herself to make seem like she got a bad deal.
@mayjay The world has change a ton since McEnroe was playing, not saying itâs right but that was 30 years ago. Comparing that society to todayâs is foolish and simply not apples to apples. Things changing thatâs why guys like Billy Gilsieby (misspelled) and Mangino arenât coaching anyone. You canât yell at anyone and get away it. This whole racist, feminist excuse is BS, her actions werenât right and she should be held accountable. I donât care what sex, race or religion you are, if are a professional act like it.
The Buffalo Bills started Nathan Peterman at QB yesterday. His 2017 numbers:
24-49 (49%), 2 TD, 5 INT, 38.4 Rating, 13.8 QBR (to his credit, he took only 1 sack in 4 games), 252 yards.
Yesterday's numbers: 5-18 (28%), 0 TD, 2 INT, 0 Rating (3 sacks), 24 yards.
Thankfully, first round pick Josh Allen was able to come in and perform capably
6-15 (40%), 0 TD, 0 INT, 56 Rating (3 sacks), 74 yards.
Wait, those numbers are bad. Maybe Allen isn't quite ready yet. Let's check his college stats:
Last year: 152-270 (56.3%), 16 TD, 6 INT, 6.7 yards per attempt, 1812 passing yards.
Career: 365-649 (56.2%), 44 TD, 21 INT, 7.8 yards per attempt, 5066 passing yards
Kap put up basically identical stats to Jacoby Brissett last year. Should Jacoby Brissett be a starter?
@justanotherfan I can absolutely agree that Kap should be in the NFL. Making probably $6-7M a season.
Here is a well thought out article â by Martina Navratilova.
You're assuming. You don't know what Kap will do with the money. Yet your posting as if it is a fact. Also as someone that watches Football. Kap's football career was over long before he started this kneeling to the American flag. He had lost his starting job and was nothing but a backup QB. It wasn't much of a sacrifice on his part. His NFL career was pretty much a bust.
Kcmatt7 said:
@justanotherfan I can absolutely agree that Kap should be in the NFL. Making probably $6-7M a season.
Please how? He's nothing but a backup. Yet he's going to create all the turmoil like he's some stud? Really?
If you were running a NFL team a business would you want a backup QB causing all these problems. Remember some people think you shouldn't blame the flag for your problems.
@JayHawkFanToo I dig it. Well said.
I did hear a funny "conservative" burn last night on this topic.
"Trump's economy is doing so well, even Kaepernick has a job!"
He does have talent. No doubt. I also thought he should have been a running back. Seriously look at his build and that thick neck he has. Dude has stud running back written all over him.
I have some friends that are big time 49ers fans. They were completely pissed when Kap was promoted over Alex Smith. I mean they were mad.
Time to believe in something... I believe Iâll have another beer!
I believe tonight is the night I find the dang cricket that is so dang loud, but I can't find it!đ¤Źđ¤đ¤Ż
I believe setting the alarm on my phone to Gangham style was not a pleasant way to wake up, but it was effective.
@justanotherfan How Dallas Police is in charge of the case, I'll never understand. This should have immediately gone to another City in Texas.
I'll wait to see the results of the case before I go on a rant.
@justanotherfan @Gorilla72 @Kcmatt7
This warrant appears to be the work of the Dallas police in a bald-faced attempt to protect their own. The investigation of the cop actually is being done independently by the Texas Rangers. They took 3 days to finally arrest her on a manslaughter charge, which has brought major criticism that any civilian involved in a suspicious shooting would not have remained out of jail while it was investigated. The county prosecutor has laid all responsibility for favorable treatment on the Rangers, saying his office could well bring more serious charges.
Well, what did we expect? I would think if you farm out a homicide investigation to an MLB team, they are likely to screw it up. Winning the WS is no substitute for police training.
mayjay said:
Well, what did we expect? I would think if you farm out a homicide investigation to an MLB team, they are likely to screw it up. Winning the WS is no substitute for police training.
Everyone knows the Astros would have done a better job anyway.
@justanotherfan I don't count them as really winning. They are supposed to be National League, so it devolves to the Rangers instead.
That doesn't work? Well, ok, . . . my bad.
Kcmatt7 said:
Stock down 3% today.
Nike stock closed at $83.47, an all time high for the company, yesterday.
Still needs some time to stabilize before we can really say what the trend is, but it looks positive right now after an initial dip. Probably should check back in a month or so to see where its at then.
@justanotherfan this move makes me believe Nike wasn't meeting guidance. Needed something radical. But I don't know that we see LT effects of this until 2019 ER in April of 2020. However, Nike is definitely a great buy right now. I'm sure their Q3 report will be off the charts.
I'm still trying to feel this all out. Nike probably also just raised the sales of UA and Adidas. They would be good ST buys as well.
Blake Bortles, 3 TDs and up 21-3 at half against New England.
Ryan Fitzpatrick, 4 TDs and 1 INT in a win vs Defending Superbowl Champs.
@kjayhawks heâs done this so many times. He should be a legit starter in the league. One of the best brains and arms. But the Bills are one of the worst franchises in history.
Notice how Kap is signing endorsement deals and now trying to copyright his image in order to sell merchandise. This has always been about money for Kap.
In what planet do you live?
Kanye West has been viciously attacked by the liberal press â with disgusting racial insults led by no other than CNN anchors and guests.
He has also been savaged by liberal Hollywood for expressing his opinion while Taylor Swift had been praised and placed on a pedestal for doing the exact same thing...except for the liberal side.
BTW, you forgot that Kaeperenick carried his protest at his employer's place of business and on company time and forced million of fans to watch his antics while West does on his own time and dime.
@JayHawkFanToo It says the people that told Kaep and Bron to stick to sports. It just seems like there is a bit of a double standard, is all.
@approxinfinity not sure what Kanye has to do with Kap or me...?
Sorry if you were a puppet that fell for the Kap jig.
Also Iâm sure you are proud of CNN for calling Kanye a âtoken negroâ. Imagine if Fox News did that. Then there is Don Lemon clown ass who used Kanyeâs DEAD mother to insult him.
For the record I donât really have a opinion on Kayne. I donât like him or listen to his music, but I donât hate him.
approxinfinity said:
@Woodrow Kanye West isn't a shameless self promoter at all.
Also if we are being honest this isnât going to help Kayne in any way with his following. So this is really a bad business decision for him. Kayne doesnât need to do this to be relevant he has millions of fans who like his music. Kap was irrelevant until he started doing his act. Big difference.
approxinfinity said:
@Woodrow I was being facetious. You were riffing off of @BShark 's post, as was I. I'm not a Kanye fan at all, and have had that opinion pre-MAGA. He is a self absorbed ass. Which is why he gets along with the President.
Strongly agree. Also Kanye has self-admitted mental issues.
Which rapper did Obama have there that was on house arrest and his ankle monitor was going off lmao sounds like high class citizen. I guess I dont really care about Kanye or Trump just dont see why its a big deal.
@kjayhawks The whole thing was just me posting a snarky thing because the truth is either side will blindly promote their side. IE people telling Kaep and Bron to stick to sports but the same people are suddenly very interesting in hearing Kanye's political ideas.
I was just having some fun with it, and felt this thread was the spot for it.
The best thing, maybe the only good thing except as a distraction, about West's Oval Office visit was the look of utter stupefication on Trump's face during the really intense part of West's rant. It made me wonder what the Donald was thinking as he just sat there in apparent disbelief:
"Who let this guy in here? Cameras in here are supposed to be on ME!"
"I could learn something from this...."
"How can he go on so long without mentioning collusion?"
"Maybe this guy can replace Nikki. We need a more involved representative at the UN."
"I bet I could sneak out with Kim and he would never notice...."
BShark said:
@JayHawkFanToo It says the people that told Kaep and Bron to stick to sports. It just seems like there is a bit of a double standard, is all.
Absolutely there is a double standard but we need to compare apples to apples.
Lets compare the reaction to two similar and very popular singer/entertainers. As I showed above, Kanye was viciously attacked by the MSM and Hollywood for expressing support for Trump, something he did on his own time and dime and did not force anyone to watch it. Taylor Swift, on the other hand, did exactly the same thing except she was shilling for a liberal politician and was widely applauded by the MS and Hollywood. This is the real comparison and the real double standard, don't you agree.
I have no problem withe Kaepernick doing all the protesting he wants but I always indicated he should do it in his own time and not at his employer's place of business where he forced fans to put up with his antics and in the process hurt his employer's bottom line and by extension the livelihood of his teammates. Of course we now know it was all about money and an excuse to hide the fact that he was replaced as starter as his skills had greatly decreased and did not warrant a starting job and he chose to not go away gracefully like most reasonable athletes do but threw a fake hissy fit instead. Even some of my liberal friend are now pretty disappointment with him and feel they were used, some still don't see it or more correctly see it but refuse to admit they were duped. To each his own.
@JayHawkFanToo Swift didn't do anything similar to West, who besides supporting Trump also said slavery was a choice and that the 13th amendment should be repealed (or some such nonsense). West also dissed Swift badly years ago. Both of these, along with others, have hugely undermined West's popularity with many blacks and young music fans.
Incidentally, Taylor Swift has been pilloried by the RW which had thought she was on your side. So, you might to find some other fruit than apples to compare--this is more like peaches and hedge apples.
@mayjay anytime anyone has came out in favor of Trump they are under attack. Iâm not a Trump supporter by any stretch but if you canât see the double standard in that you are truly blinded by youâre political affiliations. I pretty much dislike all politicians, I think they are all liars and cheats. But the Democrats confuse the crap outta me these days. The Kanvavgh (spelled wrong) deal for instance, several democrats in office right now have been accused of sexual assault and Ellison(D) beat the living daylights outta his wife with no out cry. Iâm for womenâs safety as much as anyone else but only calling out people you donât vote for is chicken sh**. Youâre for Justice and equality or youâre not, itâs like reporting your neighbor to west for raping and beating your wife then voting for the neighbor to east thatâs doing the same. Next is the McCain deal, so the guy that was called a racist, white supremactist, nazi and a trader for info he gave up as a POW during the presidential election by Democrats. Now because he didnât like Trump heâs the greatest republican to walk this planet. Next one of the many women that claimed to be sexually assaulted by Clinton was called a whore and skank by Democrats, the Daniels gal that claimed Trump paid to have sex with her (who by definition is actually a whore) was giving Democrats life lessons and called a hero for no apparent reason. You want to look up all the the Democrats that have been busted for prostitution that are currently in office? There are several, I say we end the parties right now and start voting for independents. Everyone needs to take off there Donkey or Elephant hats and see that all of these people lied and cheated to get to where they are.
I completely disagree with you. Comparing Kaepernick an athlete who made his statement at his employer's place of business and on company time and forced people to watch it does not equate to a singer that did it on his own time.
Now, Swift and West are both singers, both made political statement - this is an exact apples to apples comparison - and West was savaged by the MSM and Hollywood even including racial slurs by a host of CNN. In contrast, the MSM and Hollywood applauded Swift for making also a similar political statement.
Again, this is textbook apples to apples comparison and if you don't see it you are blinder than a :bat: .
Maybe you don't like the content of Kanye's message any more than conservatives like Swift message but I just did not see any criticism of her from the MSM or Hollywood like it criticized Kanye and I did not see any conservatives calling her names or using racial slurs either....even Trump mildly indicated that he likes her now 25% less...
I did not criticize Swift, I thought she has the right to express her opinion like any other citizen and so does West.
I did not criticize Kaepernick for demonstrating either, he has the right to do it on his own time and not on company's time or at his employer's place of business where he does not have that right...as many, many , many legal scholars made it abundantly clear...and before you accuse m, once again of making legal claims, I am not, I am just quoting what actual constitutional attorneys said, including know lefty Dershowitz, which can be easily verified by a quick Google search.
I also praised those players that took the time to meet with police and go to Congress to testify since they had at least the desire to try to find solutions. Like most liberals Kaepernick did not do any of that, instead, in his few public appearances he insulted police officers and praised Castro and Chavez, two totalitarian dictators. It is obvious he did not want a solution, he wanted an issue and publicity...and he got both and a big payoff to boot.