Figured we should move this out of the recruiting thread.

My guess at the Big 12 this year

KU

KSU

ISU

TCU

UT

WVU

TTU

Baylol

OSU

OU

I'm high on ISU and might get burned again there. UT's placement on my list is more of an indictment on Shaka's coaching than anything else. Their roster talent could still have them easily end up top 3 in the league though.

You beat me to it! Going to move some responses over

TCU is the team that has the highest ceiling I think of the others. Until we see what their frontcourt looks like its hard to say what they will do. 5 guys who haven’t played are in the mix. They will have plenty of depth but as usual I expect 1-2 guys to redshirt.

Is Andrew Jones a possibility to return to Texas? That would change things for them potentially. 9 guys freshman or Soph so their's a boom or bust potential with them. With Smart, the smart money is always on bust but we’ll see

Tech will be fine, they won’t replicate last years success but its still a team capable of competing in the league and making the tournament.

Evans & Zaire Smith are tough to replace. Their biggest issue will be at PG. If the backup Moretti hasn’t improved a good bit they will struggle. It’s not a stretch to say they have the weakest PG position in the league. Evans was in the mold of Frank Mason for his team. They don’t have a Devonte waiting in the wings.

Culver is being mocked in the first round of the draft right now. Owens and Mooney are grad transfers that will likely start. I thought Francis showed some flashes of why he was a Top 40 recruit out of HS and should have a bigger role this season. I don't see a true power forward on the squad which really hurts them. I bet they are hoping Top 50 recruit Khavon Moore can fill that Zaire Smith role and downgrade the need for two true posts. Odiase returns for his 15th season. One time KU target years back Corphew ends up here. Seems like a Beard special!

BeddieKU23 said:

Is Andrew Jones a possibility to return to Texas? That would change things for them potentially. 9 guys freshman or Soph so their's a boom or bust potential with them. With Smart, the smart money is always on bust but we’ll see

He should be back. How effective he will be is another story.

@BShark

I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.

It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don't see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.

Also if I was coaching Texas I would start Sims and Hepa to just be extremely athletic.

@BShark

Good for him, I hope is able to return. How effective he will be after what he went through is another story. Big inspiration for the team

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.

It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don't see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.

If Huggins makes this team work he definitely earns his checks. I know he was high on Doomes who had to sit last season. Beetle and Harler are nothing special, Beetle can score some but he's nothing like Carter/Miles. My Brewster friend has good things to say about Culver who should be ahead of the curve a little bit taking that post-grad year to work on his academics.

@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don't have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.

*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough

If I were putting money on it:
- KU
- WVU
- KSU
- UT
- TCU
- Baylor
- ISU
- Tech
- OSU
- OU

KU undefeated through Conference play, winning the conference by a full 5 games.

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.

It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don't see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.

If Huggins makes this team work he definitely earns his checks. I know he was high on Doomes who had to sit last season. Beetle and Harler are nothing special, Beetle can score some but he's nothing like Carter/Miles. My Brewster friend has good things to say about Culver who should be ahead of the curve a little bit taking that post-grad year to work on his academics.

Culver is good, but they are already relatively loaded inside.

Bolden could legitimately be their best guard which will keep Huggins up at night. I'm thinking they will start three forwards to avoid starting two FR guards.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don't have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.

*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough

Interesting I thought Mitrou-Long was pretty good as a Soph. He averaged 15 ppg in 6 games against P5 competition (West Virginia, Iowa St, Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Villanova) being the competition. Had 14 against West Virginia, 19 against Iowa St

Kcmatt7 said:

If I were putting money on it:
- KU
- WVU
- KSU
- UT
- TCU
- Baylor
- ISU
- Tech
- OSU
- OU

KU undefeated through Conference play, winning the conference by a full 5 games.

That's a lot of faith in Huggins considering their roster, but he has earned that kind of respect.

No way KU sweeps the league. Probably a couple wtf losses and one loss to a better team in the league. I'd guess 15-3.

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don't have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.

*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough

Interesting I thought Mitrou-Long was pretty good as a Soph. He averaged 15 ppg in 6 games against P5 competition (West Virginia, Iowa St, Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Villanova) being the competition. Had 14 against West Virginia, 19 against Iowa St

KU has played worse guards under Self (COUGH COUGH THARPE COUGH) but I still wouldn't feel good about him getting minutes. If Jones is good to go I doubt Long plays much at all.

1- KU

2- Silo Tech

3-TCU

4-TT

5-Hillbillies

6-Clones

7-Okie St

8-Faylor

9-Shorthorns

10-OU

I could be all wrong, but as long as I get the first one right, it doesn’t make a bit of difference to me.

BeddieKU23 said:

@Kcmatt7

I don't trust Smart to make them a good offensive team. Just look what he couldn't do with Allen and Bamba. The Coleman/Long/Roach backcourt could be salty though. I thought Sims flashed as well. They still have Slow O (Osetkowski) in the post

I'll just move this here.

I think they should have as good of a starting 5 as anybody in the league. But I agree, Shaka worries me. More than anything, I'm just high on Coleman as a Sophomore. If he can improve his 3PT shot he could be the top PG in the league this season. The best thing for UT this season though is not having a Bamba or Allen that Shaka feels he needs to show off. They should be more guard/team oriented.

• Coleman/Ramey
• Roach/Davis
• Jones/Liddel
• Osetkowski/Hepa
• Sims

They are really about 9 deep and they should be able to space the floor with 4 shooters on the floor at all times. Could go 5 if they really wanted to.

Of course, Shaka will drive them into the ground, but I do like their roster.

I moved mine too.

KU

KSU

TCU

ISU

WV

T-TECH

TEX

BAY

OU

OSU

@BShark Can't bet against Huggins. Hard to bet against Drew somehow putting together something that somehow finishes in the top half of the league.

@Kcmatt7

Davis went pro.

If Jones is ready to start the season I see a lineup of Coleman, Jones, Roach, Osetkowski, Sims. If Jones is eased into competition slide in Mitrou-Long into the starting lineup. That 4 man backcourt can compete with anyone in the Big-12 but only if all 4 are the best versions of themselves. I was never high on Roach but he improved a lot last season and I see him carrying the team as a senior.

I have no idea how good the freshman are. 4 top 100 kids, you figure at least one can contribute high level minutes. They will be a young squad when going to their bench

@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23

Bamba was not a very polished offensive player. Tons of potential on that end, but not polished at all. If he were a Wendell Carter type, he would have been easier to run the offense through, but he's more of a shot blocker, rim runner type that can step out and shoot a bit. Once Jones went out, UT lost a lot of their offensive identity (he was easily their best perimeter player).

I think Texas will be improved, but I still think the top 4 teams in the conference will be Kansas, WVU, K-State and TCU.

For some reason I forgot Eric Davis, Jr. went pro. DERP. That changes a lot of what I said about UT and their roster...

@BShark

That was the PR "your not coming" back move. He was caught up in the FBI stuff. I don't think Smart was taking him back

I forgot too. I still like their roster though.

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

That was the PR "your not coming" back move. He was caught up in the FBI stuff. I don't think Smart was taking him back

Yep, definitely.

@Kcmatt7 I agree, but it has a big impact on what I thought their guard rotation was. Doubly true if Jones isn't 100%.

Cannot count Huggy out and Smart has wasted talent before and with a bottom half finish his seat gets very hot. TCU has a lot of upside and ISU will have good talent but Prohm has yet to prove he can run with the top dogs.

KU

KSU

WVU

TCU

ISU

UT

TTU

Baylor

OSU

OU

@BShark Id flip TCU and TX. WVU will be at least top 5 again. Huggy can flat out coach and Sagaba Konata is a beast.

KU is the leader once again
KSU is gonna be really good this year. We might split the series with them and see them in the tourney final game for the tie breaker.

OU and ISU will bring up the rear of the conference.

Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?

@JayHawkFanToo yep, in my 👀's

JayHawkFanToo said:

Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?

I always thought he was a distraction - so my hype - -I think it got into his had and his play got worse bad decisions , turnovers, bad shots. He is going to be nothing more then an average NBA player - - unless he buys into the NBA role now cause in College he played absolutely zero defense I don't know how many times I saw him do the old ollay whiff when a player drove past him. I think even though nothing was made public I would bet you there was some team chemistry issues on that squad last year - - there was some that was saying Trae was all they had -- I call Bullsahit on that - they had some quality players.

A lot of the reasons when HE DID pass the ball it caught them off guard because the times were far a few in between - again he got to forcing shots wasn't the entire season but a long stretch - -these players aren't as bad as they were made out to be

JayHawkFanToo said:

Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?

Huge net negative.

I was at an ice hockey game last night and a Jayhawk basketball game broke out in the crowd.

But seriously... imagine how intimidating our team is going to look this year?

JayHawkFanToo said:

Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?

Great question.

In my observation Kruger just took it too far with how much freedom he gave Young. You could see the disconnect on the team by the middle of conference play. It certainly looked like his teammates were jealous to an extent and pissed off at Young having so much media coverage and having the ball in his hands a staggering % of the time for their offense. Young's play at times looked selfish but he also had plenty of brilliant moments. If anything I think Kruger just failed to strike a balance between having a standout star player and making the rest of the pieces coexist with him. I would be stunned if players were not upset at the situation.

As far as being a net positive/negative I think without Young's talent that OU team wasn't making the tournament and wasn't going anywhere. Overall he's a positive to the program because there was massive exposure to OU all over the media (OU probably profited off Young) , Young was drafted high so that helps with recruiting. I'm sure there were plenty of recruits or players coming up that looked at Young's situation as something they would want for themselves. No other player in the country was given the freedom or control that Young got. If players are about showcasing for the NBA this was a perfect example of that.

OU is going to struggle this year but not because Young is gone. Manek, James, McNease is a solid core trio but what else do they have. They had to go the grad transfer route for guards because the cupboard is bare. McGusty leaving hurt them big time and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the Young fallout (net negative part you mentioned). Odomes & Doolittle haven't progressed like you would expect from Kruger. It's not a talented bunch and the only way they stay competitive is if the transfer guards they got play out of their mind.

Kruger is in rebuild mode and has to find a way to get better players back in Norman. He's also got to keep them in Norman once they get there which has also been an issue.

What's everyone's thoughts on who will be on the Pre-Season First Team All Big-12? Who will be POY, Defensive POY?

1st Team:

Barry Brown

Desmond Bane

Dean Wade

Dedric Lawson

Udoka Azubuike

POY- Dedric Lawson

Defensive POY- Konate- Unamimous

I'm going to go out on a limb

All Big 12

Brown

Wigginton

Grimes

Wade

Dedric

POY Dedric

DPOY Konate

Team 1: Brown, Wigginton, Wade, Lawson, Konate

Team 2: Fisher, Grimes, Bane, Lard, Azubuike

POY: Lawson

DPOY: Konate

@KirkIsMyHinrich That combination for 1st and 2nd team definitely looks correct. I'd pretty much bet on those ten.

It hurt me to put two kitties on the first team, but Brown and Wade are pretty much the team.

I would put Grimes first team if he played for any other team in the Big 12.

Fisher is the one I feel least confident in because of his knee.

Yeah, big caveat there on Fisher. IF he can stay healthy. ISU having two guys that should be first and second team and THT speaks to their talent. We are going to find out if Prohm is a goober this year imo.

Brown and Wade definitely feel like locks. Sneed is a DUDE too but other than that KSU is mostly replacement level players. In fact I think Sneed will add just as much value to their team as Brown. Brown has more name recognition at this point though.

@BeddieKU23 lol🤣

Fisher had another surgery and will be ready by the beginning of season? Knee again?

JayHawkFanToo said:

Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?

Young was a positive for OU. That team probably finishes 9th or 10th in the League without him, and definitely misses the tournament. They basically repeat the previous year.

This year we will see them without a good PG again, and OU will likely finish 8th or worse in the League and miss the tournament.

I think Kruger has hurt himself by struggling as much as he has since Hield and Co. left. Rather than building on that, the program has fallen flat. I think that hurts him more than letting a top 5 pick have free rein over the offense.

@justanotherfan

Question:

Do you think OU basketball suffers when their football does well?

One of my dear OU football friends says they can't have it both ways. The more promotion OU football gets its just a reminder that OU is a football school, not a basketball school.

I'd like to hear what people in here think about that comment.

@drgnslayr

I think OU could be better in basketball, but its a matter of emphasis. OU doesn't focus on basketball. They don't pour a lot of resources into basketball. OU could be a top 25 program if they put the resources into it.

Kruger is a good coach, but OU doesn't recruit at an elite level. If they did, they would be consistently in the rankings.

@justanotherfan Yep. You can only win so much with a bag full of rocks.

And now Lon is going to have to start two grad transfers, including one who is on his third team now, and wasn't really doing well in the A-10.

Realistically Lon needs a big class this year too. They currently have one solid player committed that should be the cornerstone of this class but there is a lot more work to be done there.

@drgnslayr

Agree with others, Lon just isn't a consistent recruiter. OU is a machine in football because they recruit Top 10 classes. Imagine Lon doing the same or any program in the Big-12 doing this outside of KU.

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Grimes is one I think can end up 1st team by season's end. If he's the leading scorer on this team or the top guard option that looks favorable. For some reason it looks like he might go a bit underrated until we see how big his role is on a stacked team

@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.

That's my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:

Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.

After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed..

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

That's my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:

Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.

After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed..

I think you're probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.

This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn't be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.

This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That's going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.

Like you said, so many mouths to feed... but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.

These were mine that I posted in another thread. I think the overall average might be a bit high though...

Dedric 17

Grimes 12

Doke 10

Vick 9

KJ 9

Dotson 7

Silvio 7

Moore 6

Garrett 5

@BShark I hope Doke is more of a force than 10 points a game. His size alone should be good for 4-5 easy dunks a game. Maybe another 4-6 points off of baby hooks and (gulp) free throws. I would love to see his average around 14 and 10.

@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

justanotherfan said:

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

That's my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:

Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.

After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed..

I think you're probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.

This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn't be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.

This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That's going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.

Like you said, so many mouths to feed... but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.

I've gone back and forth on the scoring projections. I'm confident in the top 4 more or less but you could be right about KJ/Charlie, we just don't know how the minutes are going to shake out which is why I went low. This team shouldn't have any trouble scoring 80 a game once this team forms an identity and Self figures out who's in the rotation and how all the pieces fit.

All 5 of our starters will average double figures, and two reserves will avg double figures as well.

jayballer73 said:

@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I lowballed Silvio until we know for sure he's playing and if he's the only primary big sub for Dedric and Doke. I hope we can get him 12-15 minutes a night consistently because he'll produce

@joeloveshawks I get where you are coming from on it but it's already 45 points a night from the front court, counting KJ as a front court player. Even on Self's deepest front court teams like the JR Morris Twins team or the Cole and SO Morris twins team the front court scoring has only been in the high 30s.

For Doke to average 4 more points they have to come away from someone else. I think with more depth and post options Udoka could be better overall but still score less than last year.

KUSTEVE said:

All 5 of our starters will average double figures, and two reserves will avg double figures as well.

Lol, calm down. This won't happen. Even 08 only had 4 guys in double figures.

@BShark I will NOT calm down..you can't make me...lol. 7 double figure scorers...we'll average more than the Warriors....lmao...

BeddieKU23 said:

jayballer73 said:

@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I lowballed Silvio until we know for sure he's playing and if he's the only primary big sub for Dedric and Doke. I hope we can get him 12-15 minutes a night consistently because he'll produce

I'm expecting 20 minutes a night from Silvio. He KU gets the shaft and he can't play that changes my projections big time.

KUSTEVE said:

@BShark I will NOT calm down..you can't make me...lol. 7 double figure scorers...we'll average more than the Warriors....lmao...

You better calm down - -you want me to get Granny? lol - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

How about this? The team struggles from 3 in the pre-conference...Braun announces he is accelerating his senior year, and comes on in January, and hits the game winning shot to win the national championship. since we're willfully speculating...

@jayballer73 hehehehehe...this is fun. The best speculation on the board was where they were arguing about whether Braun would grow some more....that is just epic, classic rockchalk speculation...lmao. It was just too funny...

You guys sure seem sold on Dedric. I'm not ready to predict him as b12 player of the year before seeing him play at least one game.

If he really is as dominant as Lafrentz, Gooden, Collison, Simien, Marcus and TRob I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

@DanR SOLD!

DanR said:

You guys sure seem sold on Dedric. I'm not ready to predict him as b12 player of the year before seeing him play at least one game.

If he really is as dominant as Lafrentz, Gooden, Collison, Simien, Marcus and TRob I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

Hopefully he does live up to the billing because the plan is 100% to run the offense through him. Showcase type of talent and basketball ability.

BShark said:

For Doke to average 4 more points they have to come away from someone else. I think with more depth and post options Udoka could be better overall but still score less than last year.

Doke unleashed could add 4 more points just by getting a couple offensive rebounds!

I'm looking forward to the Doke-Konate matchups this year.

Correction. I'm looking forward to everything about this season!

Dedric averaged 19-10 without much of a supporting cast at Memphis. He commands double teams. He can shoot and handle. In a lot of respects, he's a bigger, meaner, stronger version of Perry Ellis. And Dedric has the benefit of playing with a lot of talent now. He has never had a big man like Doke. He's never played with a guard as good as Grimes. He's never had PGs like Moore and Dotson. Dedric should be DOMINANT this season from day one.

Dedric is the kind of player that warps the court and most opposing teams will have no good answer for defensively. He will score himself and create offense for everybody else because he is such a threat on offense.

@justanotherfan Interesting comparison. i think Dedric is a better passer, and has better handles, but I think Perry is better shooter, at least so far. I was trying to rack my brain to come up with a comparison, and Dedric is a composite of several players, from some Manning to Perry, a bigger, slower version of JJ, to Oubre's perimeter jumper. Good stuff...got me to contemplating...

Y'all are gonna like Big Dave.

🐦 View Tweet

@KUSTEVE Yeah Dedric is a special talent. Really understands the game too, great natural feel, a basketball lifer.

BShark said:

Y'all are gonna like Big Dave.

🐦 View Tweet

That pass from Dotson to Big Dave towards the end of that clip is something we will see a lot. Grimes out on the wing keeping his defender honest. Two defenders converging on a slashing Dotson. Dedric keeping his defender honest on the other side of the paint, and an unguarded McCormack getting an easy lay-in as a result.

@DanR I'm looking forward to Doke/Konate matchups too. I'm hoping Doke doesn't get a technical called on him for standing this time in Morgantown. We know Konate won't get called for a technical despite flexing and trash-talking every time he does anything. I'm still mad about that if you can't tell.

I can see games where Doke goes off for 20+ easy depending on whom he matches up. At the % clip Doke scores , a 3 point shooter would have to shoot 50% to match the efficiency.

@JayHawkFanToo

Doke's one achilles heel is that he doesn't shoot well from the line. If you can foul him before he scores, his efficiency plummets to near unplayable levels. Granted, you can't do that every trip, but that's also why I think KU closes games with Doke on the bench and either Big Dave or De Sousa manning the middle.

Doke can start and play early, but in the late part of games, where teams are more willing to take fouls, he will probably find himself on the bench.

@justanotherfan

We will have to see how much progress he made over the Summer. FTs and rebounding are what kept him from being drafted so I will guess he has worked hard on both.

BShark said:

Y'all are gonna like Big Dave.

🐦 View Tweet

Dave is a big boy - -love his size - - and really like how he hits the boards. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Here is an interview with Garret at Boot Camp ↗; apparently Vick Hs developed some leadership skills and has been more vocal. Nice to see it from the lone senior.

D DOTTTTTTTT

@BShark I knew there was a reason I was on devon's wagon early in the recruiting of him - You remember I was right there wanting this boy. Did you see that cross over at about the 0:24-25 in to the video? T hat stop and pop. - - The kid is relentless. - -attack -- -attack - -attack. - -there is to a degree now pay attention I say to a certain degree he attacks the rim just Like Frank - -no fear. did you say fast? - -this kid is fast - -real fast. sweet dish's . I just don't see how you keep him out of the starting line up for very long - -very long at all. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Best PG in the 2018 class.

@jayballer73 He does things that Frank wasn't doing as a senior. His defense is light years ahead of freshman Frank, and his step back is an ankle breaker. If he can shoot half way well from 3, with the way he drives the ball, he could be a nearly instant star.

One of the things I've learned about recruits who end up exceeding expectations, is that they have the ability to use their opposite hand. For a guy Dotson's size, it is even more important than most. Having a strong left will help him to finish in the lane and be able to shield off defenders.

Dotson has a fantastic left hand.

He is going to be good. Real real good.

17 RANKED PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY (CLASS OF 2018)

STAR RANKING: 5 STARS

HEIGHT: 6’2”

WEIGHT: 175 POUNDS

POSITION: POINT GUARD

HIGH SCHOOL: PROVIDENCE DAY SCHOOL IN NORTH CAROLINA

CHOSE KANSAS OVER: ARIZONA, FLORIDA, MARYLAND, AMONG MANY OTHERS

SCOUTING REPORT
Frank Mason. Devonte Graham. Devon Dotson. Kansas head coach Bill Self has done a great job recruiting the point guard position during the last decade. With Graham being a senior, it looks like Dotson is next in line of great Kansas lead guards. The North Carolina prep star has the make-up to become just as good, if not better than the 2 other names before his.

Devon Dotson jumps out on tape while evaluating him. Speed is the name of his game. The 6’2″ PG is one of the fastest players with the ball in his hands in the entire high school class of 2018. He explodes when attacking the rim. He thrives at getting into the lane and finishing or dishing. The top 20 prospect displays elite first step quickness and is virtually unarguable one on one at the prep level.

He can score from all 3 levels on the court. Dotson has pretty shooting fundamentals with a quick release. He already shows a consistent 3-point shot, which will make him that much more dangerous when in attack mode. Opposing defenders will have to play his ability to drive, which will lead to him using his sweet shooting stroke. And vice versa.

Dotson is a high level ball distributor who seems to always make the correct pass. The 5-star prospect displays court vision beyond his years. He sees plays happening a few steps before they occur. What makes the point guard so intriguing as a player is the fact he is dominant on both ends of the court.

Dotson is a defensive menace and plays bigger than his size. He can lock up opposing point guards and has been a steal machine during his high school career. Once he gets stronger and adds weight, we don’t have any worries about him defending at the division 1 level. He can totally disrupt an opponents offensive rhythm with the way he competes at the defensive end.

Like Mason and Graham, the future Jayhawk is a winning type of player. We really like the composure that he plays with and has the look of a future captain. He has intangibles that you can’t teach. We believe he will be handed the keys to the Kansas basketball program next season. Devon Dotson has that “IT” factor that can’t be taught. Look for him to have an immediate impact for the Jayhawks and be in the running for All Big-12 honors as a freshman. We are very high on his abilities.

I do think the Charlie/Dotson combo is going to be great. All that will be asked of them is to pressure the hell out of the ball. I can already see our plethora of 6'5 wings denying the passing lanes, knowing that if they get beat backdoor the shot will have to be over a combo of Doke/Dedric/Mitch/Big Dave/Silvio. All of whom are capable shot blockers.

Fwiw, the 2008 team had 9 SPG and 5.8 BLK. That was 2nd and 5th in the country. I think this team should put up similar numbers. Probably more blocks and less steals. But still, dominating stats.

• Moore: .9 STL - 0 BLK
• Dotson: 1.3 STL - 0 BLK
• Grimes: .9 STL - .7 BLK
• Garrett: .9 STL - .2 BLK
• Vick: 1 STL - .3 BLK
• KJ: 1 STL - .7 BLK
• Dedric: 1 STL - 2 BLK
• De Sousa: - .1 STL - .5 BLK
• Doke: .5 STL - 2.5 BLK
• Mitch: .2 STL - 1 BLK
• Big Dave: .1 STL - .5 BLK

That is roughly 7.9 STL and 8.4 BLK per game. The above is based on numbers last year with some educated guesses based on previous BS players of similar statures at the same position. So while these numbers do seem high, I find think we will see them being a pretty realistic guess. We are just that friggen talented.

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 He does things that Frank wasn't doing as a senior. His defense is light years ahead of freshman Frank, and his step back is an ankle breaker. If he can shoot half way well from 3, with the way he drives the ball, he could be a nearly instant star.

he is working on that shot. - -From what I've still a little inconsistent , but I'm not worried really - -the kid is a stud, You see how he kind of cradles the ball some on the drive? - looks like good form on the shot. Plus this kid is fast and man does he like to get out and drive the ball to the hole - not afraid of contact at the rim , great court vison - -that's my boy lol - -I think like I said it's going to be really hard to keep him out of that starting role. Thing is though like has been said before , doesn't matter who really starts - - it's who is on the floor at crunch time - -that critical part of a game. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@KUSTEVE - He has a sweet stop and pop -- BAM and like I said this kid loves the open floor. Like the breakdown on him said he is as fast as I've seen in a bit and makes pretty dam good decisions with the ball in his hands. I've seen some hi-lites where there have been some pass's like I was like OH NO HE DIDN'T lol the kid can flat out ball. - - - you put him on the floor with Grimes give them a little College game experience and for me - -I think very , very good possibility of look the f - - - out lol.- - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@KUSTEVE He has more talent than Frank for sure. But Frank had (and still has) an iron will and very strong work ethic. Frank willed himself to being a npoy and into the nba. That said, I'm high on Dotson too and hope he starts.

Mason also morphed himself from a 32.7% 3-point shooter his freshman season into a 47.1% 3-point shooter his senior season. It would be nice if Dotson could follow suit, though he will almost certainly not have the same amount of time to do it as Mason did.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Frank is an alpha competitor, and that strong will got him a NPOY award, and a spot in the NBA. Dotson looks like he's cut from the same cloth.

KUSTEVE said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich Frank is an alpha competitor, and that strong will got him a NPOY award, and a spot in the NBA. Dotson looks like he's cut from the same cloth.

your right. - All I can say is this ( just sit back and watch ) your not gonna be disappointed. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I need to see more than that highlight reel against junior high kids.

Plus he possibly carried the ball or travelled on at least 127 of those blow-bys.

DanR said:

I need to see more than that highlight reel against junior high kids.

ya your right against Devon they did look like Jr High kids thanks for the observations lmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

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@DanR http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jul/08/ku-point-guard-devon-dotson-impressing-early-serio/ ↗ ↗

He played at Providence Day, which played the toughest high school schedule in the nation, playing 2 top 10 nationally ranked high school teams, including powerhouse Dematha.

https://www.providenceday.org/page.cfm?p=547&teamID=111 ↗ ↗

Playing pg for Self as a freshman is tough but Dotson has all the tools to succeed.

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!alt text ↗

@BShark some ripped looking guys!

Holy cow. Doke looks LEAN. Like in a good way. All muscle.

Kcmatt7 said:

Holy cow. Doke looks LEAN. Like in a good way. All muscle.

Holy crap - - -does he ever

Doke is a legit footer. look how much taller he looks than Big Dave. I wonder if he grew at all while he was here.

Look at the arms on Lightfoot. Couple of years in Hudy’s program does amazing things!

@Gorilla72 Friggin gun show

@Kcmatt7 Doke looks like a gladiator. All of them look ripped.

Here we go! Season and practice starts today, right?? Rock Chalk!

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JayhawkSlant
‏Verified account @JayhawkSlant

Self on Dotson: "He's in the same league as Frank (Mason III)" #kubball

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Jarrett Sutton
‏ @JarrettTSutton

Bill Self: “Ochai Agbaji is the best athlete on our team.”

@BShark

...hopefully a better player than Sam who was...I guess he still is...a great athlete.

@JayHawkFanToo Ochai knows how to play basketball for sure. That was Sam's issue.

Still hope to see Ochai redshirt.

It would be nice to see guys start doing this under Self again. T-Rel, Morningstar and Lucas ALL made HUGE contributions at some point for us.

Even Jamari had his moments!

@Kcmatt7

How about Tyler Self? He made sure his dad would stay for at least 5 years at KU. :smiley:

BShark said:

JayhawkSlant
‏Verified account @JayhawkSlant

Self on Dotson: "He's in the same league as Frank (Mason III)" #kubball

More on this: https://kuhoops.com/ku-basketball-news/219080790/ ↗

Self has to be so happy. We shouldn't get outrebounded all season.

Kcmatt7 said:

Self has to be so happy. We shouldn't get outrebounded all season.

2 scholarship players under 6'2. 10 over 6'4, yeah no excuse this season

@BShark WOW...that is quite a compliment.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/sep/26/tom-keegan-freshman-david-mccormack-leads-brute-fo/ ↗

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/sep/26/hype-expectations-surrounding-ku-junior-/ ↗

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"[Boot Camp was] definitely probably the hardest thing I've gone through," McCormack said at a media session before Late Night. "It's also been a great bonding experience for the team, just like pushing each other on, making sure we get through everything together. And not just surviving, but to get something out of it."

For McCormack, what he got out of Bill Self's Boot Camp was going from likely being in the best shape of his life to being in even better shape.

"The best shape of my life? I would say so," McCormack said. "I think it's really pushed me conditioning-wise. It's just helped me drop water weight as well. It's definitely put me in a great position, physically."

And that's a good sign for the Jayhawks considering the four-star big man and McDonald's All-American wasn't necessarily expected to start, but he was expected to hold down a significant role in what should be a stacked KU frontcourt.

In the early summer, KU assistant Norm Roberts spoke to Phog.net about all the KU bigs and offered some glowing praise of the freshman.

"I think he’s got a lot of probably Darnell Jackson in him, the way Darnell played here," said Roberts, who also noted McCormack has a "blue-collar, Charles Oakley" physical presence. "Kind of an enforcer, rebounder, tough, can run the floor, [a] finisher around the basket and has a decent 15-foot shot as well.”

Funny enough, McCormack was actually a little more humble on his own skills when asked by the media to break down his game.

"I would say I'm just kind of like a brute force," McCormack said. "I'm a hard-worker, I go after every rebound, every loose ball, I run the floor, I bring whatever I can to help the team to have an impact on the game."

Really, that's the type of mentality that could earn him minutes on the current team.

A hallmark of Self's bigger teams have been big men who scrap for rebounds and loose balls. Jamari Traylor, a Self-favorite, was an example of a player who wasn't the most skilled or dominant, but earned his way into minutes as a high-motor, spark-plug type of presence

When the Jayhawks were recruiting McCormack, there was somewhat of a similar message, according to the big man.

"Just playing the important role of being a hard worker," McCormack said of what Self told him to expect of his role. "Being a big man, definitely helping out — as you know, like last year, they were just kind of short-handed on bigs. So coming in, playing an important role, giving Doke and the other bigs a breather is going to be an important role for me and having a big impact on the game."

So even before he left Oak Hill and headed for Lawrence, McCormack had a good idea of what to expect.

He had already transformed his body once and he was playing at a high level. Yet even he noted he wasn't quite ready to jump into competition from Day 1.

"To an extent it does [prepare you]; it definitely helps playing with other talented athletes, but still, the college game is completely different from high school," McCormack said of his time at Oak Hill. "I don't think there's really any way to just jump right in and be ready for it."

Today is media day for KU basketball. SDS reiterates he is going to play this year and is focused on his game and not the trial.

I understand that is what he has to say , but still worth mentioning.

Media day quotes per Scott Chasen

Self on being a big team with depth: “We have been ridiculously thin the last two years. ... I’ll be pretty candid on this. Our offense doesn’t look very good. ... We’re going to have to score different ways.”

Self: “I haven’t even thought about a rotation, yet. We don’t even know how you play 12.”

Mentioned that KU has to decide whether or not to redshirt 0-1-2.

On KU’s versatility: “You could make a case that Marcus Garrett could be our starting point guard.”

Self says it’s important to have separation on roster before the season starts.

Self compares Dedric Lawson to Larry Bird in terms of being quick and athletic despite maybe not appearing as fast as a guy like Silvio.

Self on McCormack: I think he’s beyond his years from an on-court, IQ standpoint. ... I think David will help us this year.”

Says he’s not going to beat out Doke but will get minutes at the 5.

Self on competitive 20 minute scrimmages in practice: “If we had officials (referee) our practices, ... Mitch would have 22 fouls, Doke would have 18, Dedric would have 15.”

Self says Silvio has handled everything well with regard to FBI investigation. “It has probably made him grow up quite a bit.”

Self: “Who knows what could potentially happen in the next period of time, but I’m taking the approach, as is everyone on our team, that we’re going to have Silvio De Sousa this year.”

Self compares one aspect of Quentin Grimes to Wiggins: “I wish he had more of that assassin, attack mode. ... I just don’t think he’s quite confident yet to really display that.”

Says the thinks he can get there.

Self on Vick: “He’s been a 10 so far. To me he seems like he’s more engaging, definitely more talkative and seems to be happy where he is.”

Self on Ochai Agbaji: “He’s going to be a guy that’s going to start a lot of games and play a ton of minutes and score a ton of points here.”

Said he needed to see him once in HS to be impressed. Said he expects Ochai to be one of the top 30-40 players in the class by the end of his career. Will take time.

@BShark

Very interesting. I always thought that Garret could play PG, after all, he was the Texas Gatorade POY playing PG. I am sure Jaybate will be disappointed that Vick will not be playing PG. :smile:

Grimes development will be the key on how well this team does. This team has the size and speed to be very good defensively and I am sure the offense will come along as well.

I take it that Agnabi is the primary RS candidate since he has indicated that he would be open to it. Many have mentioned Mitch as well but I personally don't believe he will. Of course if Silvio ends up not playing then there is less of an issue.

@BShark that sounds like he's at least open to the idea of playing 12.

@Kcmatt7 It was you that was hoping for the long squad right? Ryan was speculating on the Phog that the line-up to close out tough/important games might be Garrett, Grimes, Vick, KJ, Dedric.

@BShark I love the idea of the long lineup

If Garrett can drive the lane, dude should seriously be considered for starting PG. He'd be like a 6'5 Aaron Miles. Now that is a crazy hot take, but just the defensive presence we could put out there with him playing PG would be insane.

Kcmatt7 said:

If Garrett can drive the lane, dude should seriously be considered for starting PG. He'd be like a 6'5 Aaron Miles. Now that is a crazy hot take, but just the defensive presence we could put out there with him playing PG would be insane.

Watching last year, it felt like Garrett is more at home playing on the ball as a PG. Felt out of place playing off-ball guard.

@BShark By putting him on the ball, you almost force someone to guard him.

@Kcmatt7 This is a very good point as well. Bill has said repeatedly that Charlie is not a PG. Wouldn't shock me if Dotson and Garrett are the primary PGs and Charlie plays primarily off the ball when he gets in and is almost always out there with one of Dotson/Garrett.

@BShark I'd love if this is how it turned out. The length and athleticism you can put out there with Garrett at PG gives me chills. Seriously, not a player under 6'5. Imagine the number of steals...

@Kcmatt7 The defense is going to be stifling.

@BShark I think grimes will play some pt, he did for coach in the USA games.

@Crimsonorblue22 Grimes is more flexible imo whereas Dotson and Garrett are guys that need the ball in their hands running the show to be at their best. So I think Grimes could play PG if needed, but it isn't and he will do what is best for the team.

@BShark so I betcha he backs up Dotson over Garrett. Take it? Just a hunch, not gonna be a crybaby if I'm wrong.

I would not take that bet, just spit balling based on what I watched last year with Garrett. Hoping the staff will see he is more of a fit at PG, was kinda awkward off the ball. Definitely not slighting Grimes. I think there are three capable PGs on the roster (Dotson, Grimes, Garrett).

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article219796870.html ↗

@BShark I like it

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@BShark He's going to be a star for us. He's simply fearless, he never looks rattled, or worried. That confidence is going to take him a long way.

@BShark that’s a kid that gets it. Can’t wait too watch him grow...

This is some info from Ryan Noel for those that don't read the Phog.

"From the bits I've heard. like I said, I think it'll be mostly Devon and Garrett handling the "lead guard" duties rather than Grimes or Moore.

And being a PG in high school mainly means you have the ballhandling ability to run things. He was widely billed as a PG by everyone that scouted him, and Self watched him run PG a bunch before his commitment.

Is he a traditional PG like Dotson is? No, but he's most comfortable with the ball in his hands rather than playing off the ball. I think a lot of people on this board are in for a rude awakening when Garrett plays a lot at PG and Charlie Moore struggles to get minutes."

@BShark bet on then?🤣

Some stuff from Scott Chasen at 24/7

"Our freshman class, I think, is probably the highest basketball IQ for an entire class that we have had for a while. I do think that as far as interaction with others and communication, I do think it's a pretty good class. I really do," Self said. "If you guys remember, when Frank [Mason] first got here, we couldn't get him to talk. Of course, by the time he left here, we barely got him to talk. But Devonte' [Graham] was one of those guys who just had it from the first day he walked on campus from the communications standpoint. I do think Ochai and David are in that same boat."

So now comes the big question: Who will be left on the outside looking in?

Popular names to throw out before the season as potentially receiving a redshirt were Lightfoot, who may be the fifth big in the frontcourt, or Agbaji, a talented freshman who may be better served holding off a year and making things up on the back end. (Theoretically, McCormack could also be in that conversation as a potential fifth big, but that would seem extremely unlikely, especially given his status as a McDonald's All American.)

Of course, Sam Cunliffe was once in that conversation as well, but he has since transferred to Evansville, where he's since added at least one set of responsibilities to his work on the court.

Regardless, here's what Self had to say about the rotation when asked about it back at media day:

"I hadn't thought about a rotation yet. We don't even know how you play 12," Self said. "Do you try and play 10 and redshirt a couple, play 11 and redshirt one, play 12 and redshirt none? I do think our players that are young are good enough that if they're playing five or seven minutes a game they will be better at age 23 than 18. We haven't got that far yet. We could play long or two little guards at the same time. I think it's too early to tell."

@BShark It makes alot more sense to have Garrett playing point guard. He's just too talented not to use his skill set at point guard. Our perimeter defense with him and Dotson, Grimes, and KJ will be STOUT.

@KUSTEVE Add in that offensively, it makes sense to put the ball in his hands since he isn't a threat off the ball at all. Force the D to guard all 5 spots instead of basically letting Garretts man play zone. (Which was typically a big slow 4 last year, playing right into our opponents hands).

This year, when he is running point, he should have a 3 or 4 inch height advantage. We could post him up or clear out and let him drive the ball on a smaller guy. He becomes a much bigger offensive threat at PG, imo.

@Kcmatt7 Every PG he plays against will be smaller than him. His defense will be exceptional, and he'll hit enough 3 pointers so teams can't lay off him. He played out of position all last year, and really did a great job.I can't wait to see him run the team.

Yeah, a lot of his game in HS was driving it and pulling up for mid-range jumpers when needed. He was really good at that. He isn't a catch and shoot 3 pt guy.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-the-top-100-and-one-best-players-for-the-2018-19-season/ ↗

For those that don't want to click!

4 Dedric

21 Grimes

54 Doke

94 Vick

KSU has three players on the list: Wade at 23, Brown at 59, Sneed at 74.

This is a nice write-up from @1JayhawkLifer on the Phog. Thanks.

"

When Bill came out he said it's always fun to have this Ladies Nights because you get tired of reading the newspaper. Later, after a question from one of the participants, he said "you know I was just thinking about that, because I don't have anything else to think about". They were both said with humor and it helped lighten the mood, but there was definitely a small cloud hovering.

If I were to guess going by SDS's demeanor/body language (although he did smile and seem to be enjoying himself), I don't think he will be playing, at least initially. Which really truly sucks because he is getting screwed by this whole thing and you can tell he just wants to play basketball and be out of this particular limelight.

Some interesting tidbits, during a session on scouting other teams, Norm Roberts said during the tournament when Duke was playing Syracuse a lot of fans probably wanted to play Syracuse, but the staff wanted to play Duke. Boheim's zone is extremely effective and they knew Duke's wasn't. They also noticed a tendency of Bagley's that he was lazy and would not cover his position very well, so they decided to put their biggest and best defender on him, Svi. Which obviously worked very well.

When they were going through the players on Duke's team a picture of Grayson Allen was put up on the screen and the room proceeded to booo very loudly. Norm was like, "Amazingly we have gotten that same reaction from all the other groups as well" He then jokingly said, "I don't like him either." biggrin

They divide the scouting of teams between all the coaches, so while one is scouting the next team up, the others are working on teams that will follow. They usually work about 10 days out on scouting.

When they scout, they show each player the player(s) they will more than likely be going up against. Bill then quizzes each player on the weakness(s) of the opposing player to make sure they understand what to look for and what to exploit when out on the court.

The best leapers on the team are Agbaji & Vick, with it being a toss up as to who is the better of the two. Hudy was asked who, of all the players she has trained, had the biggest leap from start to finish and she said Dedric Lawson. Can't wait to see what he can do on the court.

It was a great time as always, and got me excited for basketball season to begin. Not going lie, this FBI stuff had deflated my enthusiasm a bit, but last night helped restore it.

RCJH!!
"

Here is an interesting analysis ↗ on Lightfoot's role for the upcoming season by Matt Tait.

@JayHawkFanToo This is a good series in general. :thumbsup:

If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.

So, Kenpom's system isn't without issues especially for preseason but KU is #1 on Kenpom preseason and it's not even close.

https://kenpom.com/ ↗

BShark said:

If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.

I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.

I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldn't expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

BShark said:

If Mitch plays one real minute at the three I will be shocked.

I could see him getting a few minutes here and there at the 3 this season. Definitely not equal to what he will at the 4. I think most of those minutes at the 3 would come due to foul issues though or if Self wants to go with a huge line up. Silvio playing this year would also probably make Mitch playing some minutes at the 3 the best way to get him on the floor.

I think this would also likely be Self experimenting with different line up combinations during the nonconference part of the schedule and wouldn't expect to see Mitch at the 3 during B12 play except in extreme situations.

Right. I could have been more clear but by real minutes I meant close/big games and not when KU is up big against a team such as South Dakota.

I can definitely see Self fooling around in those types of situations.

@BShark I saw the KenPom rankings this morning and while I wasn’t surprised KU was #1 I was shocked by the margin as you pointed out.

Was also surprised at Texas being #16 seems a little high to me.

Also WVU at #10 and KSU at #12.

@BShark Lightfoot shouldn't be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesn't play this year

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@BShark Lightfoot shouldn't be getting big minutes in big/close games period this year unless Silvio doesn't play this year

Agree. Even if Silvio can't go tbh I'd rather KJ be used as the back-up 4.

@BShark That would largely depend on match ups to me. I don't know how well KJ could handle a physical 4 and with Mitch's added bulk, I'd think he'd be better suited for those types of match ups.

Self on Agbaji

"That's one of the ones that was luck that we got," Self said. "We didn't recruit Ochai hard, [assistant coach Norm Roberts] thought he could play well enough that I should go watch him. I went to watch him, and I go, 'I think he's better than who we're recruiting.'"

The next step of evaluation revealed only more of the same.

"Then when you get to know him and you study him; you get to see length, explosiveness, attitude and toughness," Self continued. "You also see that his sister plays volleyball at Texas. It's a very athletic family. Both parents played [college basketball]. You start thinking that this kid has got some things, some intangibles."

Of course, that final comment in and of itself would have been massive praise for any four-star freshman, especially one that was a late riser like Agbaji (even if he still finished well behind some of the more elite names in the class in the rankings).

Self, though, wasn't done hyping up the freshman.

"I don't want to make any predictions too bold, but he is going to be a guy who is going to start a lot of games, play a lot of minutes and score a lot of points while he is here," Self said. "It just may not happen immediately for him because we have depth. He was ranked No. 337 when he committed to us and I'll be surprised if he doesn't pan out to be one of the best 30-40 players in this class."

@BShark

Crazy. It's exciting thinking what Agbaji could be in time. That's some awful high praise

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/22/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-udoka-azub/ ↗

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/oct/23/he-will-he-wont-he-might-2018-dedric-law/ ↗

@BShark Dotson/Garrett/Agbaji/KJ/Big Dave. Charlie and Lightfoot off the bench first. We'll need more size, and more wings, but that is a super solid core of experienced players. 7 guys with that much experience is such a luxury for us.

https://theathletic.com/607267/2018/10/23/another-deron-williams-kansas-quentin-grimes-reminds-bill-self-of-the-former-nba-all-star/ ↗

"Self has since recruited some big-time pro prospects on the perimeter: Xavier Henry, Ben McLemore, Andrew Wiggins and Kelly Oubre, but they all lacked one quality. “They were more shooters and scorers than playmakers,” Self says.

Williams was a playmaker, and in June 2016, Self found the guy to answer the question of what it would have been like had Williams run fist at Illinois. He called Howard.

“Quentin Grimes,” Self said from his seat at a tournament in Dallas. “He reminds me of D-Will, but he will be better.”"

Lots of nuggets in that article but yeah Grimes is really good.

Dotson

Grimes

Vick

KJ

Dedric

BShark said:

Dotson

Grimes

Vick

KJ

Dedric

What's this list for?

KJ over Dok for versatility? Is this your starting lineup @BShark or confirmed?

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Dotson

Grimes

Vick

KJ

Dedric

What's this list for?

Starters imo, maybe not right away but eventually.

I think now rounding out the 8 man rotation will be Garrett, Moore and Dok. McCormack as a spot duty guy.

Interestingly enough, I think Silvio going out is biggest for Charlie Moore. It slides KJ down to playing the 4 much more and frees up guard minutes.

@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!

dylans said:

@BShark So Doks not even in your 8 man roster!?!

I meant Dok instead of Mitch. I'll edit that LMAO.

I think Dok plays around 22 mpg.

@BShark

I can't imagine Doke not starting.

@BShark Oh no way Self doesn't start Dok. You can book that.

Yeah Doke's playing especially if he's improved his FT's. He'll play anyway, he's the dominate post player in the league beside his equally dominate teammate

I think we see his rebounding and shot blocking improve this year substantially. He will be a force.

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark Oh no way Self doesn't start Dok. You can book that.

I can see Dok starting for sure.

I think it will be interesting to see how Self plays it. I think once you get past Dok and Dedric, the bigs aren't very good so it makes a lot of sense to play small some of the time. But maybe he wants more of a particular identity and Mitch/Dave get bigger minutes than I expect.

Edit: I'm counting KJ as a wing when I say the other bigs aren't very good. KJ is much better than Mitch.

@BShark I think you will see a lot of KJ at the 4 like you are wanting.

Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.

Woodrow said:

Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.

Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever. :D

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.

Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever. :D

Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Self just said Doke and Dedric have solidified themselves as the starting bigs.

Makes sense. I want to dream damn it. I have small ball fever. :D

Move to Pennsylvania, follow Villanova. LOL

Lol. Hard pass.

Good to here reassuring words from Self.

Grimes is learning to always be on the move when Lawson has the ball, and at a recent practice, the big man found Grimes cutting to the basket. He cocked the ball back as if he was going to dunk it until Silvio De Sousa met him at the rim. Instead of trying to dunk on De Sousa, Grimes adjusted in mid-air, going underneath De Sousa’s left arm and dropped the ball over the rim with a finger roll.

“I was like, ‘woo, that was crazy,’” De Sousa says.

“If that was me or anyone else,” sophomore Chris Teahan says, “they’re flat on their back because Silvio knocks them over.”

“It’s definitely hard to guard him and keep him in front, especially if he hits you in the chest, it knocks you back a little bit and he can get separation and knock it down,” Teahan says. “He has certain moves in his body that are hitchy, and he’ll get you moving a half step one way and get enough room to knock it down in your face.”

These are the type of moves that won Self over, and once the Jayhawks started recruiting Grimes, the expectation was that they would land him because his mom, Tonja Stelly, also attended KU. But Howard says Stelly was no help. “She made it extra tough for us because she went here,” he says. “She wanted him to make the decision himself.”

Grimes was ultimately convinced it was the best system for him because of Self’s fist offense and the freedom he gives his guards to make multiple reads with the ball in their hands. When Grimes is asked about theoretical plays, he talks out the progressions and options he would have with the ball.

Close your eyes and you can picture Deron Williams, who would play methodically and then beat defenders with a burst. “Deron was sneaky athletic too,” Howard says. “But this kid, he’s freaky. And he’s fast too.”

Told y'all Grimes has a great basketball mind.

BShark said:

Told y'all Grimes has a great basketball mind.

Had no doubts either. Can't wait to see it on the floor

@BShark

He was a really nice surprise at the U18 games when he played PG and was select the Tournament MVP. Kid can do it all.

Lol found put from local sports talk. - The Big 12 screwed up , they commented that KU actually WAS NOT the 100% pick to win the Big 12 title this year - - Said that yes K-State received a pick to win it - - OSU head coach- Boyton said he has learned that experience means a lot - - And there you have it -- the rest of the news - -this is " Jayballer " - - Good Day lmao - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Interesting stuff from Ryan on the Phog here: https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Board/103719/Contents/Starting-lineup-tomorrow-123759798/ ↗

@jayballer73

Coaches cannot vote for their own team so no team gets all the votes.

KSU got 2

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jayballer73

Coaches cannot vote for their own team so no team gets all the votes.

BUT yet the big 12 had come out and said that KU was a unmanious pick to win the Big twelve again -- well actually they said K-State got 2 votes when they corrected, I do know you can't vote for yourself , so there had to be 2 Coaches pick K-State

Crimsonorblue22 said:

KSU got 2

Exactly - that is what I just responded to another on here - -All I heard them say was Boyton , but there had to be another also. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Boynton and Self @jayballer73

BShark said:

Boynton and Self @jayballer73

makes sense jut didn't realize self voted for K- State

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

Boynton and Self @jayballer73

makes sense jut didn't realize self voted for K- State

He can't vote for KU so had to be another school.

@BShark ya I understand that but just didn't know it was K-State he voted for - -maybe WV just didn't know

Interesting nugget from Matt Tait

Recent guards at KU and minutes played as a FR

Frank Mason III – 567

Devonte’ Graham – 506

Svi Mykhailiuk – 291

Brannen Greene – 184

...

Marcus Garrett...748

@BShark

The teams was very shorthanded last season so that partially explains it. Also, Coach Self is big on defense and player that are willing to play tough defense will see more minutes. Very impressive either way.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@BShark

The teams was very shorthanded last season so that partially explains it. Also, Coach Self is big on defense and player that are willing to play tough defense will see more minutes. Very impressive either way.

10000000% correct.

In 2007-08 Self continued to play Russell Robinson(senior) over Sherron Collins(sophomore). It was all about defense and turnovers, Self's biggest obsessions. Of course as the tournament went on Sherron got more of the minutes.

@BShark He completely disrupts the other team. There is a ton going on with Marcus that never shows up in the box score. There were several balls he tipped that resulted in turnovers for us, and him picking up 9 rebounds, and challenging that taller player at the rim ( he picked up a foul ), the step through drive to the basket looked a little like Frank, with some Malik ankle breaking thrown in. His shot still looks terrible, but he did manage to guide one of those dead ducks in. He is one good jump shot away from being a star.

ESPN has 3 Hawks listed in the Top 60 for the draft.

Quentin Grimes #6

Dedric Lawson #36

Udoka Azubuike # 57

**Devon Dotson #51 overall prospect but not listed in either round. Definitely one to monitor as the season goes on..

Vick & Silvio - Not in Top 100 or in Top 20 of their position groups.

BeddieKU23 said:

ESPN has 3 Hawks listed in the Top 60 for the draft.

Quentin Grimes #6

Dedric Lawson #36

Udoka Azubuike # 57

**Devon Dotson #51 overall prospect but not listed in either round. Definitely one to monitor as the season goes on..

Vick & Silvio - Not in Top 100 or in Top 20 of their position groups.

Fully expecting Dotson to be back.

Six Big 12 players on the Naismith watch list, and two Jayhawks. Dedric Lawson, Quentin Grimes, Dean Wade, Barry Brown, Sagaba Konate, and Lindell Wigginton.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

ESPN has 3 Hawks listed in the Top 60 for the draft.

Quentin Grimes #6

Dedric Lawson #36

Udoka Azubuike # 57

**Devon Dotson #51 overall prospect but not listed in either round. Definitely one to monitor as the season goes on..

Vick & Silvio - Not in Top 100 or in Top 20 of their position groups.

Fully expecting Dotson to be back.

I hope so, he's a sneaky wild card for the draft I think at the moment. Will let the season play out before I make any further judgement but if he's the starter and playing well scouts will notice.

Andy Katz has his pre-season brackets ↗ and KU does not make the Final Four losing to UNC in the Elite 8. I guess he did not get the memo that KU owns UNC in the NCAA.

JayHawkFanToo said:

Andy Katz has his pre-season brackets ↗ and KU does not make the Final Four losing to UNC in the Elite 8. I guess he did not get the memo that KU owns UNC in the NCAA.

Imagine predicting a Roy team to beat a Self team. LOLOLOL.

@BShark

For some reason, Andy Putz is not a fan of KU...must be the ESPN thing...:smirk:

@JayHawkFanToo ESPN = ACC hype. Medcalf predicts Self will leave KU for the NBA at the end of this season. Go figure.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@JayHawkFanToo ESPN = ACC hype. Medcalf predicts Self will leave KU for the NBA at the end of this season. Go figure.

I remember a couple years ago when Baylor people were trying to wish this into existence as well.

Ochai Agbaji is going to red shirt this year.

Fantastic news.

Woodrow said:

Ochai Agbaji is going to red shirt this year.

I was just about to make a thread for this, lol.

Dude is going to be a serious program contributor when it is all said and done.

"Self said no other KU players would redshirt this season."

So just Ochai and Elliott.

“I love his athletic ability, his smile, his intellect, his savvy. He has a lot of things to him that are really beyond his years, but he still needs a chance to play and play through some mistakes,” Self said recently in discussing the redshirt possibility for Agbaji. “I also think he is so much like Travis (Releford) was. Travis … the best thing for him ever was to sit out a year. He was able to start to and have an unbelievable two years for us. I think Ochai could even maybe experience more success than Travis even did, and I love Travis Releford. I think this youngster has a chance. He’s just young.”

Preseason Bracketology ↗ has six Big 12 teams in the tournament. Interestingly, they have Oklahoma St. in and Iowa St and Texas out. Hmm.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Preseason Bracketology ↗ has six Big 12 teams in the tournament. Interestingly, they have Oklahoma St. in and Iowa St and Texas out. Hmm.

DRUG ARE BAD MMMKAY?

Actually upon further inspection they have Texas listed in the first four out but they are also a 9 seed in the South region, so I don't know what the hell they're doing.

@BShark THEY must be on some serious drugs lol - -step back from the pipe and slowly back away - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Found this line in an ESPN article and thought it appropriate (changed NFL to basketball).

• Unless you're some kind of narcissistic psycho, you're not watching the NCAA basketball season hoping it turns out exactly the way you predicted it would. You watch it for the surprises, for the unexpected. You watch it to find out what exactly it is that you didn't know, even though you thought you did. Dan Graziano

We must be the most boring #1 preseason team ever. You have to scroll down at least 30 articles to find any mention of KU.

here is some little tid bits on the Season. - -Says KU has 10 ( well should actually be 12 ? -but it said KU has 10 guaranteed or potential matchups against teams that are reasonably projected 1st or 2nd in their conference this season.

They are : Michigan State - - - -Vermont - - - Louisiana- - -Tennessee-----Marquette- - - -Wofford - - - New Mexico State- - - Villanova- - -South Dakota- - Kentucky - - -( then we have K-State TWICE) that's pretty decent. - - although there are a couple that - I mean let's be real - -but still. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

https://theathletic.com/525108/2018/11/05/2019-nba-draft-prospects-quentin-grimes-preseason-scouting-profile/ ↗