🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Is it leftists trying to gain sympathy for November as the Fox News comments section suggests?

Or is it a crazy right winger?

I'll listen off the air.

@Kcmatt7 I think it is just a regular right winger. Crazy left a long time ago, its work no longer needed.

Apparently none of the bombs were even functional? Is that true? I've read so much crap it all kind of blurs together on this.

@BShark I don't know. But apparently because none have exploded and killed people it is assumed to be a Democratic conspiracy. So now the right is even more fired up that the left would "stoops so low."

I mean it is kind of funny to read comments from both sides at this point. Both are being ridiculous about it lol.

@BShark From what I read, there was also powder in one or more envelopes, and they said that that powder was harmless. Some media picked that up as meaning the whole thing was harmless, but the original statement referred to loose powder AND an explosive device. Cannot find definitive info but have not searched hard. The only way to know for sure will be if one blows up rather than being destroyed by a bomb squad. Not good.

@Kcmatt7 funny? Blowhard needs to shut up and unite our country! Might be to late. Breaking news every damn day!

Interesting, Seven "bombs" sent and not a single one detonated, not even by accident and now the FBI indicates that is a huge red flag. Either the bomb maker is a moron (likely) of the bombs are just duds (even more likely).

I saw this summary...

Four reasons why the package bombs are false flags:

• Cui bono?: With the midterm elections days away, and with signs of the much-trumpeted “blue wave” rapidly receding, only Democrats — not Republicans or President Trump — could benefit from these package bombs. Why would any Trump supporter be so stupid as to send them?
• Tom Sauer, President of MacArthur Group, Navy veteran and former bomb disposal officer, tweets: “Proper pipe bombs don’t have wires connected to both ends. That’s dumb.”
• Gateway Pundit reports: “Several bombs sent out today have zero detonations”.
• The packages do not have the U.S. Postal Service’s postmarks, stamp cancellation lines, and barcodes, as pointed out by blogger Boris Badenov of 12160 Social Network.

I did check #2 with a friend of mine who was in military intelligence (retired now) and whose job was to find and destroy tunnels under the DMZ in Korea and very familiar with explosives and he confirmed that Tom Sauer makes a valid point. I don't know much about explosive devices so I have no opinion on it.

Regardless of who made and sent the devices, it was pretty stupid move that does not help either side.

@Crimsonorblue22 I find it funny how people are able to spin even the craziest thing.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm tired of distraction. I want Trump to eat sh-- for his relationship with MBS.

@JayHawkFanToo The lengths that people will go to for politics are just comical at this point. Either we have a legit crazy person who is sending bombs or we have a conspiracy going on in an attempt to rally a base before an election. And the sad part is that I couldn't tell you which side the crazy would be on or which side the conspiracy to rally the base would be on.

Even if this guy ended up being a Hillybilly wearing a MAGA hat who got arrested, Conservatives would immediately brush it off and say he was planted by the Democratic party. But the sad part is that I really I could totally see a scenario where an extremist Liberal sent a bunch of dud bombs to Liberals trying to pin it on a Conservative. So as you so astutely pointed out, neither side even cares.

So I'm just gonna sit back here and eat popcorn until one of these things explodes.

There would be little to gain for liberals to send them to people not running for office. Without any published claims saying they are from Trumpmaniacs, there is no reason for voters to suddenly decide they should lean to the Dems from this. Anyone trying to influence an election to the Dems is asking for lots of stretches by sending bombs without, say, putting a conservative groups' manifesto (even a fake group) inside.

Besides, Democrats could never organize anything like this and keep it a secret. There would be too much infighting and someone would spill the beans!

I believe it to be a hoax at this point, from what I’ve read sounds like the way they were made, they’d never go off. As @JayHawkFanToo friend had stated. Sadly you never know what type of ploy either side will use to make the other look bad. A good chunk of folks believe the people marching from Honduras are being paid and I agree with that assumption. Thousands of people with no money are going walk 1700 Miles to the boarder without food or water. If they get even half way someone is helping them, most people at a walking pace wouldn’t even cover 20 Miles a day. So it could take til spring before they get here.

@kjayhawks You couldn't pay a lot of people to walk that far. I seriously doubt it is a hoax at this point.

What a world we live in where people jump right past the simple explanation that people live in a hell hole and want to leave it for a better life and just go ahead and assume there is an ulterior political motive at play instead. I mean people have literally risked their lives and jumped on a raft made of household goods to get out of Cuba. Is it really that hard to believe people would try to walk across Central America to get to the U.S.?

And I mean that it is sad that it could even could be a possibility. Although I find it to be unlikely, it's not out of the realm of possibilities at this point.

The caravan started from a post by a former Honduran legislator on a Facebook group. Another instance of social media causing groups of people to act in unexpected ways.

approxinfinity said:

The caravan started from a post by a former Honduran legislator on a Facebook group. Another instance of social media causing groups of people to act in unexpected ways.

BUT IS THAT LEGISTLATOR A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN?

@Kcmatt7 you could be correct I just don’t trust politicians. Logically thinking says there is very very little to no chance these people at least most of them won’t make it without help.

@kjayhawks Agreed. But weighing the risk reward and betting on human decency might be the only chance they have at not living a life that they think isn't worth living. I can't tell you what I would have done in the same scenario as many of these people who are probably at a level of poverty incomprehensible to most of us. They don't have an option. And as bad as it is that we have as many people using social benefits right now, they don't have that to fall back on.

@kjayhawks I think they are getting help from people as they go through, aren't they? All those kids, such desperation. There is so much poverty in the world.

@mayjay @Kcmatt7 agreed, nothing wrong with trying to better ones situation. It will be very interesting to see what happens if these folks do get to the border. I’m perfectly fine with anyone that wants to come here to better their situation. I also don’t believe that they should get some of the benefits that they do (as I stated in previous posts one of my best friends went to college half priced because he is 1/4 Hispanic tho his grandpa migrated here when he was 2 and his family hasn’t had ties Mexico for several generations, not to mention he glows in the dark he is so pale lol, one would never guess he was Hispanic the least bit) I also don’t believe in just letting in anyone that comes and whether that’s right or wrong could be debated but many country’s including Canada have immigration laws (I actually know someone that tried to illegally go to Canada once Trump was elected and was deported, he is on a waiting list that could take several years to get him approved) several countries in Africa and the Middle East the offense is punishable by death.

kjayhawks said:

@mayjay @Kcmatt7 agreed, nothing wrong with trying to better ones situation. It will be very interesting to see what happens if these folks do get to the border. I’m perfectly fine with anyone that wants to come here to better their situation. I also don’t believe that they should get some of the benefits that they do (as I stated in previous posts one of my best friends went to college half priced because he is 1/4 Hispanic tho his grandpa migrated here wehen he was 2 and his family hasn’t had ties Mexico for several generations, not to mention he glows in the dark he is so pale lol) I also don’t believe in just letting in anyone that comes and whether that’s right or wrong could be debated but many country’s including Canada have immigration laws (I actually know someone that tried to illegally go to Canada once Trump was elected and was deported, he is on a waiting list that could take several years to get him approved) several countries in Africa and the Middle East the offense is punishable by death.

I agree that we shouldn't just let anyone in. I think it is unfair to those trying to go about it the right way. But I do think immigrants are the backbone of the country. So, I'm torn.

I read a comment by someone today and it really had me thinking. It was roughly "If someone can walk across the desert to get here, they must have one hell of a work ethic. I'd hire one of these people in a heart beat."

We definitely need reform. We need to find a way to let good hard working people in to come here and prosper. And pay taxes and their fair share along with that. I don't have the answer, but I would find it tough to not let these people in the country who were so desperate to get here. Those are the type of people we want in the United States.

@Kcmatt7 Yes, I have a coworker that came here legally that I’ve worked with for about 8 years and he absolutely hates illegals because he says they make him look bad. He is a good dude and worker. He actually says he enjoyed living in Mexico but his dad just couldn’t find a steady source of income while they was there.

kjayhawks said:

@Kcmatt7 Yes, I have a coworker that came here legally that I’ve worked with for about 8 years and he absolutely hates illegals because he says they make him look bad. He is a good dude and worker. He actually says he enjoyed living in Mexico but his dad just couldn’t find a steady source of income while they was there.

I worked with a bunch of legals/illegals over a summer. Probably the hardest workers I've ever seen in my life. And FUNNIEST coworkers I've ever had. They made weed eating sand into my own face all day seem fun.

99% are good people just trying to make a living. It is the 1% everyone is fighting over. And I don't know how to weed them out. We never have been able to with immigrants. The Irish Mob. The Italian Mafia. The Russian Mob. The Cartels. We will never be able to weed it out. So thinking stopping people from coming here is definitely not the issue.

I think the biggest issue is not having a plan for them in our current economy. We don't have the same type of jobs to offer immigrants that we used to. We have moved from an industrial economy to a service economy and adding unskilled labor to the labor pool creates a big problem. There are really a finite number of unskilled labor jobs that exist in modern day America and immigrants are willing to take less than American citizens for these sucky jobs. Which is lowering the floor for income. Which lowers it for most everyone else.

So, of course I have no idea how to fix it. But I do know that is the major reason for people not liking immigrants in the U.S. It all has to do with protecting their own livelihood.

@kjayhawks This is a followup to my above post. But you can see why the uneducated lean Republican and conservative on this issue. It is because immigration effects them the most. Of course someone with a college degree making a decent living is going to say "let them all in!" It is much easier to feel compassion when the thing you are deciding on doesn't effect you.

Edited

@Kcmatt7 - 🙄. Large amount of opinion there.
Why in the world do you say “uneducated lean Republican and conservative”? Unsupported statement.
“Republicans make significantly less than seems and are less likely to be college educated”?
Wow. Just - wow.

@Gorilla72 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/22/democrats-more-educated-republicans-pew-research-c/ ↗
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/21/as-americans-become-more-educated-the-gop-is-moving-in-the-opposite-direction/ ↗
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/22/politics/democrat-republican-education-poll-women-pew-research-trnd/index.html ↗
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/political-party-household-income/ ↗

I'll edit the part I will agree was incorrect on. The make significantly less. Not true. You are right.

@Gorilla72 Fwiw, I do know those are all referencing the same thing.

@kcmatt7 - your statements and supporting references are elitist and condescending to those without a college degree. It effectively calls everyone who is conservative or without a college degree “uneducated” and infers they are fearful and unable to think for themselves. Immigration effects all of us through taxes, not jobs. It takes away money from deserving US homeless, military and blue collar. I’m quite disappointed you believe that way. So what if a conservative doesn’t have a college degree? Don’t you think they are largely hard-working and contributing to the economy? They may be, for all you know, secure in their jobs and not afraid an illegal immigrant will usurp their work. You may be unaffected in your high paying upper echelon job, but the rest of us aren’t!

My impression is that a lot of the jobs that are being taken by illegal immigrants are jobs citizens don't want, at rates citizens don't want to work for. Also, that we do get about 11 billion in taxes from illegal immigrants, and they are far less likely to seek out public programs for aid because they are scared to. And while theres some accuracy to Trump's claims (that were exaggerated numbers, his MO) about the outright cost of illegal immigrants, this doesn't account for our economic dependence on the low skill, low pay work they provide. Also, their second generation is very good about paying their taxes.

Anyway, point being, I'm curious what jobs you or anyone around you have competed for against illegal immigrants? How has their presence personally impacted you? I do think there's truth to saying that "uneducated" Republicans live are "fearful" @Gorilla72. The Republican position has been to aggregate wedge issues to retain a Republican majority at least since 1994, when Newt Gingrich flipped the house Republican for the first time in 40 years. Wedge issues are often based on fear, and ignorance, and absolutism. Donald Trump is a walking talking wedge issue.

@Gorilla72 I'm sorry you feel I was condescending. I'll just leave it at that and not reply any further.

@approxinfinity On the jobs issue, I do think the existence of a shadow work force like illegals contributes to lower wages overall. To say that only illegals will take those lower paying jobs is to admit that the employers are both exploiting their status and keeping wages lower. If the illegal labor market dried up, especially with the low unemp rates now, wages would have to increase. So, people who might get those jobs at higher rates may well end up staying unemployed. Right now, a PT job at McD's and another at Walmart might pay more overall than the types of FT jobs illegals take at lower wages.

I have read some economic studies that say the SS and Medicare systems are being kept afloat largely due to "contributions" by illegals that are withheld by employers but which will never be collected. I think that may be bogus since I would bet many employers just falsify pay records showing withholdings but keep the money.

@mayjay I agree that the SS Medicare myth of it being kept afloat is completely bogus. I would bet a overwhelming majority of employers are withholding the money and just pocketing it.

People that are in favor of just letting people in ( anyone) do you just not care that it cost you and everyone else more money in taxes, health care premiums, etc... ?

I was with a group of guys the other night and this topic somehow came up and those were two of the main talking points. When illegals come in and have to go to the doctor or hospital without insurance and can't pay the bills who do you think pays it?

@Woodrow I totally agree that immigration needs reformed and taxes need to be paid. And as @mayjay said, they are lowering the floor for wages in part because of this.

The problem is not immigrants themselves. It is that we aren't even trying to keep track of them and we aren't punishing their employers anywhere near harsh enough to deter the behavior.

I'd be in favor of a mass registration period where we hand out work visas to the majority here. With the expectation that they will now have to pay taxes and that we know who the employers are and we can collect taxes from them as well.

But the economic benefit of them is still better than not having them overall. Sure it costs you some money now, but what is their economic benefit of being here. If you were paying twice as much for food as you are now, would that be more or less than you would save in health care and taxes? These are just generic questions. I do not know the answer to them.

@Kcmatt7 I hate being labeled. Not all of us fit in the conservative or liberal side. I sure don't! Stats or not, I thought it was mean.

@dylans probably knows this better than me, but s central and all of western ks depend heavily on documented immigrants. They pay taxes and the ones I know work extremely hard. The farm communities are experiencing hard times due to the tariffs, those guys, small time farmers, the ones that keep schools and towns thriving don't want the government handouts. The big corporations are getting most of those. My point is they are vital to those communities. I know a lot of people in north east ks have no idea what goes on, south or west of Topeka.

@Crimsonorblue22 Farm work is really hard. My dad had over 300 acres, most worked on by a couple different groups. It wasn't turning the profit I would want so I ended up just selling the land.

@Crimsonorblue22 Sorry mom, I'll be nicer.

Our country is being overthrown, as are every democratically elected government in the world. It is unfolding right before our eyes. They are in the process of crashing the stock market. Both republicans and democrats are deeply involved. Immigration is involved. The middle east wars were designed to create massive migration. Recently in Sweden, immigrants coordinated a firebomb attack simultaneously in 4 different cities. So, mixed in with people wanting a better life are people wanting to destroy the country they migrated to. My belief is Maduro is making life so terrible, he is trying to displace people to cause migration. Some force is manipulating a whole slew of South American economies, which is causing economic turmoil all over the continent, which will, in turn cause massive migration. If they build the wall, they'll simply figure out a new system for entry in the country. This process is inevitable - they will destroy the nation state.

Welp

@BShark If you don't want to take the red pill now, it's ok. But it won't be long now where there won't be a choice.

Suspect in custody:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cesar-sayoc-jr-alleged-mail-bomber-threatened-democrats-on-twitter?source=articles&via=rss ↗

Seems to be quite the dedicated Trump supporter.

@approxinfinity - Personal impact by illegals? Yes. I live in SoCal where we have a true melting pot. And, yes I have a degree from Pittsburg State in accounting and finance. I'm a CPA and have been in management positions all my working life.
- Rented a property to an illegal family based on false documents from them and the county. As a result it took me 3 months and $4K to remove them.
- Schools here are heavily populated with Latinos who speak no English, yet are placed in classes K-12. My grandchildren are faced with a slower pace of learning, Hispanic cliques and bullying. They can’t wear American flag symbols on their clothing because it creates animosity among other races. I have relatives and friends who teach at the high school level. It is common for classes to be disrupted, as well as the aforementioned learning, clique and bullying issues. Mexican flags, for whatever reason, are common. I know several teachers who quit over these issues because administration would not support them. Minorities cannot be failed without significant review – district policy.
- Until I retired, I managed a million sq ft distribution center in LA. We hired people who later turned out to have fraudulent SSN’s, false I-9’s and also clique issues. Often, termination was required for these violations and it was frustrating spending training time these people (then terminating), researching drug sales (then terminating) and arbitrating issues among various groups. There was quite a bit of animosity. I’ve been accused of racism for terminating guilty parties.
- I live in a medium sized town where almost all retail, common maintenance and other unskilled labor is performed by Hispanics. Generally, they do good work. Conversely, the area is becoming much less safe as indicated by Sheriff’s reports, drugs and violence is rampant based upon such reports and news articles. ICE and the Border Patrol are fairly active here.
In short, living in “socialist” California is no longer pleasant. If this is the future of America, I’m worried. Perhaps your world is populated by a majority of white people but mine isn’t. Values are changing quickly here and I’m expected to accept it. SOOO glad I’m retired. Maybe I should move back to Kansas or maybe Texas….

Done ranting….. I won’t read the political section of KU Buckets any more.

@Gorilla72 They can't wear American flag symbols?! What a joke. Sad thing is liberals and Dems are OK with that, and more worried about the illegals.

@Woodrow I love it when I am told what I think! Thanks for that!

I am waiting for you Limbaugh woofers to try to justify the baseless accusations that the bombs were sent by a liberal. Must have been a really deep plant to be willing to have stickers with Dems in crosshairs.

@bcjayhawk I saw that. Democrats shoot people at softball games, and republicans send pipe bombs. That's why I'm neither.

@KUSTEVE There is no equivalency here. Let's see, one Republican was shot, and a few have gotten shouted at. On the other side, a democrat was shot in AZ, a right winger attacked a DC pizzaria accused by unhinged RWers of being a Clinton pedophilia center, a RWer killed a peaceful marcher in Charlottesville, anti-abortion RWers have bombed clinics and killed doctors and nurses, the President praises a campaign staffer for criminal assault on a journalist while the world stands horrified by a journalist's assassination, and he has also encouraged police brutality in arrests during a time of horrible upheaval due to police killings of unarmed suspects and even innocent people in their own houses. And that is just part of it. When you notice you are on the side of the guys carrying Nazi flags, it might be time to step back and examine what in the hell you are doing.

@Gorilla72 Thank you for sharing the issues as you see them with specific details. We are so bad at talking in this country, and this sort of explanation is very valuable. Why would you be done with the political section after you shared a detailed explanation of your stance in I think pretty reasonable terms? In my mind, this is the exact kind of honest detail that should bring us closer to a place of resolution and compromise. Thanks man.

@mayjay The situation has deteriorated to where they are shooting people at softball games, and they are sending pipe bombs through the mail. This is all by design. You can't overthrow a government without pure rage, and both sides are driving people crazy...They are agitating for a civil war, and this is what it looks like. It's alot easier to overthrow a country when they are at war with themselves.

@Gorilla72 I'm really sorry! It's nothing like that where I live.

KUSTEVE said:

@BShark If you don't want to take the red pill now, it's ok. But it won't be long now where there won't be a choice.

Yeah I'm not big on conspiracies. US corporations have long controlled Central and South America though, if we are being honest.

@mayjay That pretty much makes my point. I'm sure they have a list, too. We're comparing lists to condemn and marginalize the other side as the evil ones, when in reality, none of the crazies ever represent the vast majority of their party. These are the true believers, who have swallowed whole the rhetoric that each side spew on an everyday basis. Both sides want you to think the other side is just like that terrorist that tried to blow people up, or shoot them. The Borg is itching to have as much conflict and turmoil as possible. This division is a planned event. Everybody is in on it except us, and we're the unwitting fools walking straight into our own demise. I don't think we have the capacity to fully understand how bad it will be.

@BShark

The Chinese are all over Latin America and America companies don’t have the influence they once did.

bcjayhawk said:

Suspect in custody:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cesar-sayoc-jr-alleged-mail-bomber-threatened-democrats-on-twitter?source=articles&via=rss ↗

Seems to be quite the dedicated Trump supporter.

You mean like the shooter that was A Bernie supporter that unloaded and shot a Republican representative at a base ball game? You mean like that kind of supporter?

mayjay said:

@KUSTEVE There is no equivalency here. Let's see, one Republican was shot, and a few have gotten shouted at. On the other side, a democrat was shot in AZ, a right winger attacked a DC pizzaria accused by unhinged RWers of being a Clinton pedophilia center, a RWer killed a peaceful marcher in Charlottesville, anti-abortion RWers have bombed clinics and killed doctors and nurses, the President praises a campaign staffer for criminal assault on a journalist while the world stands horrified by a journalist's assassination, and he has also encouraged police brutality in arrests during a time of horrible upheaval due to police killings of unarmed suspects and even innocent people in their own houses. And that is just part of it. When you notice you are on the side of the guys carrying Nazi flags, it might be time to step back and examine what in the hell you are doing.

Really? You have Liberals running around dressed up as ninjas with pack packs full of batteries disturbing those that disagree with them? OH but they are peace free speech loving people. And when was the last time a Liberal was banned from a college from speaking? Shall I go on. When have you seen a Liberal been attacked while they are trying to eat a peaceful dinner?

Oh you want to bring up Nazi flags. Um do some homework your Dem party was the party of slavery. Your party could care less about the black Americans of this country. Just as long as the vote Dem. OH see Trump lowest black unemployment in the history of this country? Yet no ok maybe he not a racist? Nope. Spare me your Nazi talk. See above about free speech. It isn't Conservatives that are blocking free speech.

All you have is some crazy fuck that mailed a bunch bombs than had no chance of going off.

Noticed how this terrorist that did this went from facing 68 years in prison to 58 to now 48 years? What's going on. I wouldn't be surprised if this douche bad walks free.

@DoubleDD language!

[link text](

Yea @mayjay That is Steve Scalise shot by a crazy Bernie Sanders Lib.

Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party. Yet here we are now and Trump and his voters are getting blamed for a crazy person that sent out a bunch of so called bombs.

Oh please tell me again how we need to check ourselves? Maybe I just need to drink the koolade your drinking?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@DoubleDD language!

Why? This guy was a douche bag. Lets call it for what it is.

@DoubleDD So, either your memory is as bad as your logic, or you are purposely lying, or you just simply let yourself believe whatever crap your fearless leaders feed you. Republicans jumped all over Democrats for the Scalise shooting. Here is a summary of some:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/after-shooting-some-gop-blame-incitement-democrats-n772586 ↗

Since you probably won't read that because it comes from an MSM source, try Googling "Republicans blame Democrats for shooting" or put it into any search engine you want.

Amazing what people do to avoid thinking on their own.

That van feels like it almost has to be fake. Like...what in the world...

@Bshark

I apologize as I think you really wanted to have a honest debate.

This guy is crap and deserves the death penalty in my thoughts.

@mayjay you still didn't answer the question? Why can't you give props when they are deserved? Black unemployment is the lowest in the history of this country. Under Trumps watch. Why can't you be happy about it? Why because it wasn't your party and your leaders? I"m so tired of people like you throwing around Nazism and KKK when it comes to the Republican party. What about the Dem party? Wasn't Communist backing the Dem party and their flavor? What you forget old Uncle Joe? The man that killed more people than Hitler. Does not history show that the Dem party was the party of slavery? Did we not see Hillary your parties girl have so much respect for a KKK leader? Yea you like to dish it out but you don't like to take it. Do you need to go to that safe place?

Show me one link where Obama got blamed for Steve Scalise. And don't come up with some way crazy web link. Try to stay main stream. Can you do that?

@DoubleDD good gosh you are crazy!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@DoubleDD good gosh you are crazy!

OH and your of a sound mind? Now just do what your told.

@DoubleDD Your little group of extremists includes Nazis NOW. If you want to go back to the Dems in the 1800's and the 30's enjoy the trip.

You posted originally: "Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party." So the NBC article, which isn't mainstream enough for you, refutes that. Just admit you forgot, or just keep embarrassing yourself. I am done with anyone who cannot see all those Trump stickers on the MAGAbomber's van.

mayjay said:

@DoubleDD Your little group of extremists includes Nazis NOW. If you want to go back to the Dems in the 1800's and the 30's enjoy the trip.

You posted originally: "Not one Rep/conservative blamed Bernie Sanders or the Dem party." So the NBC article, which isn't mainstream enough for you, refutes that. Just admit you forgot, or just keep embarrassing yourself. I am done with anyone who cannot see all those Trump stickers on the MAGAbomber's van.

Oh I see your still avoiding the question? Ok I'll start. I love that Obama Care brought about that Insurances companies can't preclude those with preexisting conditions. A worthy and noble fight that should be considered when voting.

Now your turn? Yea that's what I thought. If you and your Dem party cared so much about the Black Americans of this country why can't you just be happy that we finally have a president that has lowered the unemployment rate of Black Americans to the lowest rate in the history of this country?

Still no go? Yea that's what I thought.

@BShark @approxinfinity Somebody please, dear God, close this thread. It is just painful.

Trump has used stirring up hate and divisiveness as his platform, so I do think it is fair to say he played a role in some of the recent events. You can't shake up a soda can and then say oh it's not my fault when it sprays everywhere.

mayjay said:

@BShark @approxinfinity Somebody please, dear God, close this thread. It is just painful.

Close the thread @mayjay needs his safe place.

BShark said:

Trump has used stirring up hate and divisiveness as his platform, so I do think it is fair to say he played a role in some of the recent events. You can't shake up a soda can and then say oh it's not my fault when it sprays everywhere.

Fair enough but you don't think the Dem party doesn't deserve some of the blame?

@DoubleDD I think Trump it to blame, not either particular party. Though the two party system in itself creates divisiveness and is an issue. Too many people make everything us vs them and vote straight Dem or Rep tickets w/o considering issues and voting records...

Ok explain why?

Lets keep in mind Trump has gotten blamed and accused of everything under the sun?

At some point a person says come on.

Is he guilty of some things sure, but is he to blame for everything? I don't think so.

I wasn't a big fan of Obama but I didn't blame him for everything and I voted for him in his second term.

Believe it or not I'm not a big fan of Obama either. At the end of the day he was just full of platitudes and really didn't do much of anything. Pushed a highly compromised health care bill through. The Democrats could have pushed things through in Obama's first two years. So what did they actually do? They bailed out the upper ownership of the banks, expanded the insurance industry, moderately expanded Medicaid, and passed an okay stimulus bill. And the military (Lockheed Martin, Boeing) got their usual big forever raises too. Yet not a single increase to minimum wage.

So, I wouldn't say I'm hardcore Democrat or Republican. I'm on the side of humanity, and common sense. This is a side that Trump strongly opposes.

@BShark

I"m sorry I didn't mean it like that. Just I think it's crazy to blame one person or party for everything.

@DoubleDD He is the leader of this country and his campaign ran on divisiveness and white supremacy. The country is now reaping what they sowed when he won the election. Domestic terrorism has been more prevalent than ever under Trump, in part because he's been encouraging it.

I'm not blaming him for everything, but he is the POTUS and ran on a dangerous and embarrassing platform.

@DoubleDD you voted for Obama? Man, have you considered that you might have changed a lot since then?

According to the ADL, anti-semitic hate crimes rose 57% in 2017. The largest single year increase on record.

BShark said:

@DoubleDD He is the leader of this country and his campaign ran on divisiveness and white supremacy. The country is now reaping what they sowed when he won the election. Domestic terrorism has been more prevalent than ever under Trump, in part because he's been encouraging it.

I'm not blaming him for everything, but he is the POTUS and ran on a dangerous and embarrassing platform.

Does not the Dem party preach on the Black vote, the Woman vote, The Latino vote and so on. So are you upset that Trump tapped into the Midwest vote that is mostly white?

approxinfinity said:

You voted for Obama? Man, have you considered that you might have changed a lot since then?

No sarcasm needed. You can join @mayjay in that safe place if you want. I voted for Obama because I thought he was the better candidate in his second term.

@BShark funny thing... You said you are for humanity and common sense. Trump said this would be the election of Kavanaugh, the caravan, some other wedge issues I can't recall and... common sense. He's right about that! I hope common sense is still common and we can elect people that aren't complicit.

@DoubleDD i was being serious. The way you defend Trump I would have assumed you thought Obama was the Devil.

I hope that you are still someone who might vote for the next candidate that isn't endorsed by Fox if they are the better candidate.

Am I upset that he tapped the racist, Nazi vote? Yes I would say that I am.

Obviously not all white people are racist Nazis. Trump absolutely operated on that platform though.

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD i was being serious. The way you defend Trump I would have assumed you thought Obama was the Devil.

I hope that you are still someone who might vote for the next candidate that isn't endorsed by Fox if they are the better candidate.

Oh I always vote for the best candidate, but I'm sure we can count on you Msnbc/Cnn Dem candidate regardless of what they say.

@DoubleDD I don't think you will. Sorry man. I just don't think you would give a liberal candidate a chance, even if he/she were the better option.

I don't watch MSNBC, or CNN. I watched a little CNN during the Hurricane so I could make fun of their reporting. That's about it.

BShark said:

Am I upset that he tapped the racist, Nazi vote? Yes I would say that I am.

Obviously not all white people are racist Nazis. Trump absolutely operated on that platform though.

Really? There is like 500 Nazi in the whole country. Wake up the KKK is dead. The Dem party created Trump. As they attacked white men. Like somehow white me are racist just because of the color of our skin. Just like the Black Americans rose up and won their freedom so will White Americans rise up against this Dem perception that if your a white an your a sexist and racist.

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD I don't think you will. Sorry man. I just don't think you would give a liberal candidate a chance, even if he/she were the better option.

I don't watch MSNBC, or CNN. I watched a little CNN during the Hurricane so I could make fun of their reporting. That's about it.

You've never voted for a rep/conservative in your life and your telling me what and how I would vote? Really? Please lets try to be fair. You're as closed minded as they come.

I literally just said not all white people are racist in the same post. Are you even reading what I am writing? Trump operated on racist platforms, period.

@mayjay I feel your pain brother.

@approxinfinity

YOu always want evidence and facts. Ever notice it has to be from the websites and news channels you tap into?

@BShark We can all go running to our safe place together--the real world.

@BShark

Yet you think Trump playing into the White man vote is racist, but you have no problem with the Dem party playing into the Black, Gay, Woman, and latino vote. You don't see that is racist?

mayjay said:

@BShark We can all go running to our safe place together--the real world.

OH so @approxinfinity comes out to play now you come out of your safe place. LOL

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

Yet you think Trump playing into the White man vote is racist, but you have no problem with the Dem party playing into the Black, Gay, Woman, and latino vote. You don't see that is racist?

Gay and trans people deserve equal rights. They don't have them yet.

@DoubleDD I don't think you're wrong about the double standard regarding racial politics, or that the Democrats had a heavy hand to play in "creating" Trump. But Trump goes way beyond just seeking equality regarding race politics. He's a hate monger.

@BShark

No argument but that's not the point. Why is it ok for the Dem party to tap into a certain group of sex, color, and so on. Yet when Trump taped into the White man race he played a race card?

@DoubleDD that's because the things that Fox News says are verifiably BS, and they're so in bed with Trump they make Russian hookers look tame.

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD I don't think you're wrong about the double standard regarding racial politics, or that the Democrats had a heavy hand to play in "creating" Trump. But Trump goes way beyond just seeking equality regarding race politics. He's a hate monger.

I don't think he is a hate monger but I do see your point in that regard. I just don't think he plays political correctness. He just says what's on his mind. Which agree can be taken the wrong way.

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD I don't think you're wrong about the double standard regarding racial politics, or that the Democrats had a heavy hand to play in "creating" Trump. But Trump goes way beyond just seeking equality regarding race politics. He's a hate monger.

This.

It would be foolish to deny the facts. Hate crimes and domestic terrorist acts are UP during Trump's tenure.

When you spout things like building the wall, it's bound to happen.

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD that's because the things that Fox News says are verifiably BS, and they're so in bed with Trump they make Russian hookers look tame.

Just like the liberal media can't give him any credit for anything.

@DoubleDD Look, if you can prove that something I quote is factually incorrect, I hope you know I'd be the FIRST to acknowledge it.

!0_1540697158776_CHOPPING SPREE 8.png ↗

Hey give me a sec I need to talk to my wife and smoke a cig. If your still up we can continue. if not have a good night.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-didn-t-pull-the-trigger-in-pittsburgh-but-he-prepped-the-shooter-1.6595902 ↗

@mayjay “These bombs are just a false flag trying to make us look bad” says the party who steals babies and puts them in cages.

@BShark The Donald said during the campaign that "the 2nd Amendment people" could make sure that Hillary would never appoint any Sup Ct justices if she were elected. But how could anyone interpret that as encouraging violence?

You could rewrite Billy Joel's "We Didnt Start the Fire" complete with all the morally corrupt or incompetent stuff Trump and the Republicans have done in his first two years alone.

Someone beat me to it:

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD that's because the things that Fox News says are verifiably BS, and they're so in bed with Trump they make Russian hookers look tame.

I have what i believe is a very valid/fair question for you. Why is its that you watch Fox News so much that you know that as you put it...the things Fox News says are verifiable BS; only a person that watches that network a lot would be able to make that type of statement, don't you think? If it is so bad, I would think you would avoid watching it altogether.

To a resonable observer, the MSM is a lot more closely allied with Liberals/Democratic Party that Trump is with Fox. There are several hosts/analysts at Fox that are very anti-Trump starting withe Shepard Smiths and Juan Williams and even Chris Wallace is very anti Trump although not as overt as the others. Is there anyone at CNN or MSNBC or any of the networks that are equivalent?

BShark said:

@mayjay “These bombs are just a false flag trying to make us look bad” says the party who steals babies and puts them in cages.

And what party would that be who steal babies and puts them in cages? The children in cages is just fake news that never happened, the cages were used as props during a staged protest by illegal aliens...during the Obama administration... ↗and were never used by ICE and yet protest leaders doubled down on it knowing that the the photos were fake ↗.

Let me ask you a question. What happens if in your way home with your kids, you or any American citizen are stopped by the police and arrested for cause, say you caused an accident, would your kids be allowed to go to the detention center with you? I think not. Social Services would be called and in the absence of the other parent they would be places in a different location, right? Illegal aliens come in knowing full well that they are breaking the law and bring their kids to prevent being deported on the spot knowing their kids will be taken as is the case in every other lawful arrest/detention. Why should illegal aliens that willfully break the law have more rights than an American citizen?

BTW, the kids that are separated from their parent are not placed in cages but in facilities orders of magnitude better than any thing they have known and cost the American Taxpayers upwards of $30K per year.

If you don't want to be detained and separated from your kids then don't come here illegally and expect special privileges. Millions of immigrants come into the country legally every year, why should law breakers that try to jump to the front of the line get special privileges?

@JayHawkFanToo this administration separated children with no means of reuniting them with their parents, and refused to acknowledge that this was a policy, thereby causing no update to the software or procedure to reunite. The inability to reunite is terrible; either a collosal f--k up, or a deliberately negligent and cruel act, in an effort to further dissuade undocumented immigrants.

@JayHawkFanToo I pay attention to Fox News more than I do CNN and MSNBC, because Fox News poses the greatest threat to our country at the moment. I think we know why ↗.

To a resonable observer, the MSM is a lot more closely allied with Liberals/Democratic Party that Trump is with Fox.

Being more in league with the truth is not the same as being "closely allied wiht Liberals/Democratic Party". Corrolation is not causation.

There are several hosts/analysts at Fox that are very anti-Trump starting withe Shepard Smiths and Juan Williams and even Chris Wallace is very anti Trump although not as overt as the others. Is there anyone at CNN or MSNBC or any of the networks that are equivalent?

I have never heard of the first two people. I wonder what their viewership numbers are. I do appreciate you calling out that there are a few hosts that are reasonable, and I promise you I will seek them out. Do you possibly have clips in mind that I should check out? No worries if not; would save me time. My biggest concern is those people that are in bed with Trump and have the biggest viewership (Hannity, ex), i.e. the people doing the most damage, and most exemplifying state run media.

I keep thinking back to the binge watching of Jordan Peterson I did a few months back. He had some decent moments, but one thing that stuck out as flat wrong and damaging was his argument that conservatives are more moral people. Maybe this is true if you think that conservatives self-identify more as being absolute in their convictions, but the truth of the matter is that Donald Trump has shown how far conservative morals can slide, and have slid. This is not just a "he's got moral issues but his policies are good with me" kind of thing. You can't absolve yourself of his influence over you. He's build a tower of rhetoric and lies around him that you have to buy into, and have bought into by taking Fox News seriously.

His relationship with Fox News is undeniable, and once again, the things they say on Fox are verifiably BS. Just as importantly, the BS and hateful things that Trump says and his administration does that they do not report or explain away invalidates their credibility as a news source. They do enough to be seriously damaging to the grasp that the people of this country have on reality.

It was a joke, for effect. I didn't mean ACTUAL cages.

Anyway, I have seen some videos where ICE has arrested ACTUAL US CITIZENS just because they were Mexican/speaking Spanish, that pisses me off.

@approxinfinity

I don’t know what to make of your answer. You say you watch Fox News and yet you don’t know who Shepard Smith is and he has been with Fox News since its inception in 1996 and is the channel's chief news anchor and managing editor of the breaking news division. Smith is the former host of Fox News' evening newscast, The Fox Report with Shepard Smith, and Studio B. In 2013, Shepard Smith Reporting replaced Studio B. He is extreme anti Trump. Juan Williams, formerly of of NPR and PBS, has been with Fox for several year now since he was fired by NPR/PBS and he is a regular panel member on the. Sunday Fox show with Chris Wallace and several other show shows and extremely liberal and rabidly anti Trump. This is the equivalent of saying you follow KU basketball closely and yet don’t know who Kurtis Townsend or Norm Roberts are.

As far as BS, look at how many times recently CNN had to retract flat out lies it published. How about NBC that withheld exculpatory evidence during the Kavanaugh saga? ↗ You are quick to indicate Fox publishes lies but I have not seen where you have shown any and you have not mentioned the actual lies published by the MSM.

A friend of mine, former Assistant City Enginner for the City of Hutchinson (I did send his name to @Crimsonandblue12 at one time to see if she knew him) and a very liberal democrat was staying at my house and, much like you, kept saying he did not watch Fox News because it was all lies. I asked him how he knew that since he did not watch Fox and his answer was...everybody knows Fox lies and is extreme right. I suggested that instead of listening to others he should see it for himself and watch Fox News for one week and form his own opinion. He did and at the end of the week he had changes his mind. He said that every show he watched that had guests, there always were guest from both sides and with differing opinions. He was actually very surprised by this because it was not what he expected, but again, a lot of the criticism of Fox News is by people that don’t even watch it.

JayHawkFanToo said:

I don’t know what to make of your answer. You say you watch Fox News and yet you don’t know who Shepard Smith is and he has been with Fox News since its inception in 1996 and is the channel's chief news anchor and managing editor of the breaking news division. Smith is the former host of Fox News' evening newscast, The Fox Report with Shepard Smith, and Studio B. In 2013, Shepard Smith Reporting replaced Studio B. He is extreme anti Trump. Juan Williams, formerly of of NPR and PBS, has been with Fox for several year now since he was fired by NPR/PBS and he is a regular panel member on the. Sunday Fox show with Chris Wallace and several other show shows and extremely liberal and rabidly anti Trump. This is the equivalent of saying you follow KU basketball closely and yet don’t know who Kurtis Townsend or Norm Roberts are.

This is a major stretch. I never claimed to be a fan of Fox News. I was very explicit in saying that my attention to Fox News centers around the shows that do the most damage, specifically Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, who are the #2 and #3 rated hosts in 2018, whereas Shepard Smith is #19.

I have seen countless utter horsesh-- clips from these two clowns (Carlson and Hannity) and I'm certain how I feel about them. I don't dispute that there should likely be less detestable people on Fox; I told you I'd watch Smith or Williams. Was there any particular coverage that you think was well done and unbiased that I should look up? Are they tearing Trump a new a-hole for wanting to change the Constitution via executive order?

@JayHawkFanToo

So here's what Shepard Smith said about the caravan:

“There is no invasion. No one is coming to get you. There’s nothing at all to worry about.”

And yes, regarding the executive order conversation on birthright citizenship he was critical of Trump.

That makes me wonder, do you yourself watch Shepard Smith?

Did you, back in 2013 when he was the #3 trusted anchor on TV, before Fox decided to move him to the 3pm slot?

Is it any surprise that I know who the 8, 9, and 10 pm slot anchors are?

Why do you think Fox moved Smith to the 3pm slot and filled the 8, 9, and 10 pm slots with Carlson, Hannity, and Ingraham?

@approxinfinity

I see what the issue is. You are lumping together the news division with the opinion shows. Shepard Smith has always been and still is part of the news group and not the opinion group like Hannity and Carlson are. He is now in the top news time slot which is in the afternoon while the top time slots for opinionix are in the evening. Smith is now so biased against Trump that he has lost credibility and viewership and he is making the news more like opinion which is not what the news division is or should be about, i.e. report the news not make the news.

I never said you were a fan of Fox, actually it is quite the contrary; however you did indicate that you watch it closely but your lack of knowledge of its line up would indicate the opposite and once you start citing numbers it indicates more of a Google search than actual hands on....or perhaps eyes on...experience. Just my observation.

So those of you that enjoy CNN and are left leaning. Can you please explain to me how this is not a racist statement...

"We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, MOST of them radicalized to the right" Don Lemon

Imagine if a white person said that on Fox News. The left wants to sit around and blame the Fox News and Trump supporters for riling up the country, and then sit around and let this bullshit air.

It's racist.

I wonder if anyone on here enjoys CNN. I agree it's racist.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@approxinfinity

I see what the issue is. You are lumping together the news division with the opinion shows. Shepard Smith has always been and still is part of the news group and not the opinion group like Hannity and Carlson are. He is now in the top news time slot which is in the afternoon while the top time slots for opinionix are in the evening. Smith is now so biased against Trump that he has lost credibility and viewership and he is making the news more like opinion which is not what the news division is or should be about, i.e. report the news not make the news.

I never said you were a fan of Fox, actually it is quite the contrary; however you did indicate that you watch it closely but your lack of knowledge of its line up would indicate the opposite and once you start citing numbers it indicates more of a Google search than actual hands on....or perhaps eyes on...experience. Just my observation.

So if I understand you correctly, you're making a distinction between news (Smith) and opinion (Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham) on Fox, and then saying that the news (Smith) is in fact biased. So, can I infer that the answer to my question is that no, you in fact do not watch Smith? It seems to me that distinguishing him as the "top news time slot" is meaningless/disingenuous, because the top slots PERIOD are in the evening, and you and many other Fox viewers, are not interested in the news (and also in many cases working at the time the news slot is running), and only consume the opinions.

Is that right?

Lemon is an asshat.

Speaking of Lemon

[link text](

Now that's some fair and truthful reporting.

@DoubleDD Yep, we were agreeing with Woodrow for calling that crap out. It's racist and isn't okay.

@Woodrow I think reasonable people, regardless of political beliefs, will not have a problem with Don Lemon taking a permanent hike.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2018/10/31/cnn-host-don-lemon-said-white-men-are-biggest-terror-threat-this-country/?utm_term=.abfc75030446 ↗

One can only hope that this one trips him up.

I mentioned that the first time in a long time I watched CNN was the Hurricane Coverage to laugh how bad it was. I was struck by how disingenuous and disengaged Don Lemon was, trying to force feed people their own stories in order to check off some dramatic checkboxes like "but your pets can't go with you right! Huh. And you ma'am you're staying because you're an EMT and you want to stay to help these dog owners. Huh. Truly you are amazing. Huh." Quite apparent that he's full of sh--. So yeah @Woodrow I completely agree. He should be canned not only for being a racist but because he sucks at reporting, at least from what I saw.

@approxinfinity

This is exactly what I am saying. News is part of the day time programming and the evening/night programming is primarily opinion. I watch the cable news networks only occasionally and I get my information from other sources. Ever since Rupert Murdoch’s kid took over Fox, the channel has become considerably less conservative, particularly day time programming. Evening programming is way too profitable to mess with so that portion has stayed conservative although O’Reilly is now gone. Other liberal leaning daytime hosts like Megan Kelly was very successful in her daytime slot but once she moved to the opinion time she was so anti Trump that lost audienc but the MSM networks came calling and she moved on...and got fired...

The Fox that you talk about is the way it was many moons ago but not what it is now, this why a lot of conservatives have quit watching Fox. Google Shepard Smith and you will see the number of stories wandering why he is still with the network and the answer is because it is the new direction of the network. Again, Shepard Smith is to Fox what Wolf Blitzer is to CNN.

The following is an excerpt picked up from one the many reports...

Being the paragon of political-correctness and queen of virtue-signaling opportunism, Hillary Clinton sat down with Recode's Kara Swisher this weekend to answer questions about just how evil and awful conservative opponents have been in the last few months.

The conversation began normally, with Clinton hypocritically toeing the progressive line of identity politics by explaining how each of the groups are different but can be managed by the same liberal movement:

"What’s often called political correctness is politeness,” Clinton said.

“It’s not being rude and insulting to people. It’s respecting the diversity that we have in our society,” she said.

“The Democratic Party is a much more diverse political party, attracting people who are African-American, Latino, LGBT, whatever the reason why people feel more comfortable where they are taken in, where they are included as part of a political movement or party."

“And I don’t think it’s politically correct to say we value that. And I don’t want to go around insulting people. I don’t want to paint with a broad brush every immigrant is this, every African-American is that, every, you know, other person with different religious beliefs or whatever - that’s childish."

Childish, indeed. Insulting, indeed.

Just 30 seconds later, as Swisher asked:

"what do you think of Cory Booker... saying ‘kick them in the shins,’ essentially...” incorrectly recalling Eric Holder's recent comments.

Which Clinton quickly corrected:

“Well that was Eric Holder..."

Adding, rather extraordinarily,

"Yeah, I know they all look alike,” Clinton joked, triggering howls of laughter from the apparently mind-numbed audience.

Sorry Hillary, we don't think they look anything alike? Or did u mean all black people?

!0_1541096703128_upload-57fa8ead-f629-4da8-a212-3b2c4e348de1 ↗ ?itok=FxrZhpr8

Finally, we have one question - what would have happened if Trump said it?

JayHawkFanToo said:

Just 30 seconds later, as Swisher asked:

"what do you think of Cory Booker... saying ‘kick them in the shins,’ essentially...” incorrectly recalling Eric Holder's recent comments.

Which Clinton quickly corrected:

“Well that was Eric Holder..."

Adding, rather extraordinarily,

"Yeah, I know they all look alike,” Clinton joked, triggering howls of laughter from the apparently mind-numbed audience.

Sorry Hillary, we don't think they look anything alike? Or did u mean all black people?

I think you're missing the point here. She's joking about the meme that white people can't tell black people apart. Which is callous, maybe even racist toward white people, but it's pretty clear she does not in fact think that all black people look alike.

She does have a habit of running her mouth in ways that provide soundbyte fodder for the conservative hit media. Nice work, Hillary!

@approxinfinity

Seriously? That’s what you are going with?

That was a racist statement any way you look at it. Had Trump said it he would be crucified. The liberal double standard never ceases to amaze me.

@JayHawkFanToo I did not disagree that it was a stupid, possibly racist statement. Trump would never say something like that, because he doesn't have a firm enough grasp of current memes that didn't originate out of his own mouth, so your postulation is too hypothetical.

@JayHawkFanToo Regarding Shep Smith, I'm getting the sense that he's kind of an idiot? Sure, he attacks Trump, but probably poorly? Maybe I'm wrong.

You should try John Oliver. You'd love him.

....and no signs of jaybate recently....

@Blown I know! Hoping he's well and comes back fired up for basketball season.

approxinfinity said:

@Blown I know! Hoping he's well and comes back fired up for basketball season.

I've given him a hard time, but I do hope he is okay.

@DoubleDD

Apparently you don't understand irony and sarcasm.

A lot of people have said that various "other" groups should be banned or subjected to more scrutiny because of incidents, be it a Muslim ban, or the "Papers please" thing in Arizona, or police stopping minority males, etc. And in each case, the argument is that this additional scrutiny is not racist, but is based on things like safety and a threat to the public.

But when that additional scrutiny is pointed at a group that is not traditionally marginalized, then there is outcry about reverse racism. Now, I am not saying that you personally have done the former. I cannot remember you ever doing that. But it has been done, and it has been done by others on this very board. I don't think we need a "white guy" ban, but I also don't think we need a Muslim ban, or Papers please or to follow young minority males.

But it is funny that a lot of people that are upset about Don Lemon uttering those words also cheered when then Candidate Trump talked about banning Muslims.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...

approxinfinity said:

JayHawkFanToo said:

Just 30 seconds later, as Swisher asked:

"what do you think of Cory Booker... saying ‘kick them in the shins,’ essentially...” incorrectly recalling Eric Holder's recent comments.

Which Clinton quickly corrected:

“Well that was Eric Holder..."

Adding, rather extraordinarily,

"Yeah, I know they all look alike,” Clinton joked, triggering howls of laughter from the apparently mind-numbed audience.

Sorry Hillary, we don't think they look anything alike? Or did u mean all black people?

I think you're missing the point here. She's joking about the meme that white people can't tell black people apart. Which is callous, maybe even racist toward white people, but it's pretty clear she does not in fact think that all black people look alike.

She does have a habit of running her mouth in ways that provide soundbyte fodder for the conservative hit media. Nice work, Hillary!

See @DoubleDD, @JayHawkFanToo is illustrating why the conclusion Candace Owen draws (or the opinion of the special interest groups that pay her) is faulty. Hypersensitivity is not a conservative or liberal thing. It is a symptom of the digital age age.

@justanotherfan I was going to try to explain that, but after so many fruitless tries in this thread previously I gave up and chose drinking instead. Lemon's comment would have been more easily understood had he used a couple simple explanatory words. Instead of saying "most terorist attacks in the US have been committed by white males" he said "white males are terrorists" leading to the misunderstanding that he was talking about all white males. His tying it to the idea of a ban made his point clear to anyone not primed by Hannity to whine about all the blame they think gets tossed their way.

Many people make that mistake of reversing order when talking about subsets of larger groups. I hate imprecise speech. English teachers used to really slam people for not getting this right, but I don't know if anyone pays attention. They certainly don't to the "neither...nor" or "not only...but also" rules.

@mayjay, I was fortunate to have had English/grammar teachers (and my Mom) who not only taught, but required the use of precise speech. I, too, hate imprecise speech and poor or incorrect grammar. I'm with you all the way on that, my friend!

I only care about punctuation when the meaning is uncertain without it. I was an English major two decades ago, but now some grammatically correct syntax feels stuffy. I see you used "I, too," @bcjayhawk. To me, the commas there feel unnecessary, even if grammatically correct. Who has time for superfluous commas in the 2010s? I'd never pause twice when talking to someone and saying that sentence out loud, so why create the two pauses via commas there? Nothing seems lost without them.

Just my opinion. :)

@approxinfinity The advantages of following rules are twofold. First, the writer doesn't have to make ad hoc decisions every time--just know and follow the rule. Easy as pie. Second, the writer by not making decisions about when to follow rules can ensure the greatest chance that the intent of the writer in the passage will be understood by the reader provided everyone uses the common rules.

Put together, those considerations mean that you don't have to figure out all possible misinterpretations by picking and choosing when to be "correct."

If you can always guarantee proper interpretations of your meaning, good on you! But furthering the notion that everyone can be so perfect is pretty short-sighted.

@mayjay In this sentence I would definitely enforce extra commas, so that the natural pauses are evident to the reader.

Second, the writer by not making decisions about when to follow rules can ensure the greatest chance that the intent of the writer in the passage will be understood by the reader provided everyone uses the common rules.

This should read:
Second, the writer[,] by not making decisions about when to follow rules[,] can ensure the greatest chance that the intent of the writer [of] the passage will be understood by the reader[,] provided everyone uses the common rules.

Is there a word for someone who cares only how the sentence sounds when spoken aloud? I tried to google potential word candidates but only found sexual fetishes, ex "auralist". Anyway, I'd be in that group. Sorry I'm trolling you man :) I find it fun to nitpick people's grammar when they bring up a preference for proper grammar. It's just an obligatory trolling. I hope you guys understand!

I think your logic is pretty sound, for what it's worth :) But I intend to be an "auralist" none-the-less.

@approxinfinity I definitely added more to that sentence and should have had more commas. Hoist on me own petard! Edit: "in" is the proper word for it is used with the writer's "intent . . . in" the passage.

As for how sentence meaning can change depending on how it sounds, here is an example (though not of punctuation) of a sentence in a criminal trial transcript:

"I never said she killed him."

What meaning did you glean? Now, reread it six times, each time particularly stressing a different word.

Punctuation can be played with, too. But more importantly, if you think commas are only to make sentences sound good and can be deleted by personal preference, they certainly can be added willy nilly, too. Remember the rabbit who eats, shoots, and leaves?

justanotherfan said:

@DoubleDD

Apparently you don't understand irony and sarcasm.

A lot of people have said that various "other" groups should be banned or subjected to more scrutiny because of incidents, be it a Muslim ban, or the "Papers please" thing in Arizona, or police stopping minority males, etc. And in each case, the argument is that this additional scrutiny is not racist, but is based on things like safety and a threat to the public.

But when that additional scrutiny is pointed at a group that is not traditionally marginalized, then there is outcry about reverse racism. Now, I am not saying that you personally have done the former. I cannot remember you ever doing that. But it has been done, and it has been done by others on this very board. I don't think we need a "white guy" ban, but I also don't think we need a Muslim ban, or Papers please or to follow young minority males.

But it is funny that a lot of people that are upset about Don Lemon uttering those words also cheered when then Candidate Trump talked about banning Muslims.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...

OH so you think there should be a white man ban? And you're not a racist? What do you want? equality or privilege?

Reading is hard.