🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Seriously, who's left? Are we sure Udoka is returning? Agbagi? Are we looking at a starting lineup of Dok, Mitch/McCormick, Agbagi, Dotson, and...who am I forgetting? Obviously she incoming freshman, but with a significant impact? Are these kids (Grimes, Lawson) leaving because Self has dudes coming in?

I don't think Doke is coming back based on a Self quote.

@chriz

Yeah I wouldn't expect Doke back.

As it stands Dotson, Agbaji, Garrett, Lightfoot, McCormack and the two signed recruits. 5 spots open, 6 if Doke does pursue a professional career.

Two possible additions on the 17th and 19th but I wouldn't expect either as likely. Maybe things look good with Stanley now that Grimes left. UCLA just hired a coach and has no relationship with him. Oregon can drop off some Nike cash.. we will see

The guys coming in are not scaring anyone away. Just seeing one of the worst roster attritions in the Self era.

Hopefully the staff can get guys they want in here. Looking bleak no matter what

Doke is most likely going pro. I think that has been the expectation all along.

There are still quite a few dominoes that have to fall before we can even begin to wonder what next years team will look like. I know it is hard , but just need to be patient.

@chriz waiting on silvio’s appeal too🙏

Forgot about Silvio. Haven't given it a thought the NCAA would actually give him his yr back

For sure returning will be Dotson, Garrett, Agbaji, McCormack, and Lightfoot. I don't think Doke returns, nor should he return. His injury history is one that he should go make what money he can, while he can. I also don't see Silvio ever getting cleared because his case is not a matter of just $2,500, it's $62,500 that has allegedly been paid to his guardian and could've been $82,500 had Gassnola made that payment. There's no way in hell Silvio ever gets past that.

I'm more optimistic about Doke coming back than most. If for no other reason than he'd be option 1, 2, and 3 for us next year. Not getting Hurt or Stanley. Still in a good spot with Achiwua and Enaruna. I know there's some optimism about Silvio getting cleared since it's a separate committee that makes the call on an appeal. They're scheduled to meet in June so we'll have something by the draft I'd wager.

@Texas-Hawk-10 per the NCAA it was only $22,500, unless they are mistaken in their own ruling. If the NCAA follows precedent (lol), Selby got $5k and had to sit 9 games. $22,500 should be this season (36) plus 5 more. Or maybe the appeals folks will take it easy and just say a year is plenty. http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-provides-reinstatement-decision-kansas-silvio-de-sousa ↗

@FarmerJayhawk

Might be options 1 thru 5 with Dotson declaring

@BeddieKU23 he'll be back. No way he's a first rounder.

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 he'll be back. No way he's a first rounder.

While I think he is likely to come back we have no idea what he and his family think about just taking the chance now. He would make money now, somewhere

@BeddieKU23 my feeling is this is a no-brainer for them. Devon won't be at KU for 4 years and you get multiple opportunities to test, so why not?

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 my feeling is this is a no-brainer for them. Devon won't be at KU for 4 years and you get multiple opportunities to test, so why not?

I agree it is a no brainier. While he sits outside the top 10 in his position for now I can see him testing and playing well. Might be good for a high to mid 2nd round grade from some teams intrigued with his speed and finish ability. Good defender as well

WHat the Hell?!> Dotson declared for the draft? Testing the waters I hope.

Post season ban coming???

@FarmerJayhawk Can you just come back once? Or can you “test the waters” as many times as you’d like now?

no one

Need to hear from coach!

@dylans I think you can test twice and the third time you're in for good. I expected Dotson gone after next season to avoid competing with the HS kids in the 2021 draft.

@FarmerJayhawk Is the last paragraph how other institutions get out of having in-eligible players? Just play them and make the NCAA come at them (i.e. Zion)???

When a school discovers an NCAA rules violation has occurred, it must declare the student-athlete ineligible and may request the student-athlete’s eligibility be reinstated. The NCAA staff reviews each student-athlete reinstatement request individually based on its own specific facts. This decision may be appealed to the Division I Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee, which is comprised of representatives from NCAA schools.

I half expected he wouldn't even test. We can only hope the process for him isnt a last minute type situation. Hopefully he gets the info he needs rather quickly

Kinda supports my theory that Dotson wasn’t a huge KU fan coming into Larryville. This year was rough enough I had hoped it would galvanize the remaining guys into an unflappable core. 😔

dylans said:

@FarmerJayhawk Is the last paragraph how other institutions get out of having in-eligible players? Just play them and make the NCAA come at them (i.e. Zion)???

Pretty much. Since they don't have subpoena power the NCAA only relies on voluntary cooperation and publicly available information. If they gather that something is fishy, warn the school, and the school still plays the kid (e.g. Derrick Rose) then they can drop the hammer citing the school's "lack of institutional control." But in cases where the information is sufficiently buried and not provable, like Zion, the NCAA is relatively powerless to do anything.

@dylans he cried like a baby when we lost, he cares!

@Crimsonorblue22 I have no doubt he cares deeply about the team he’s playing on. I just don’t think it would’ve mattered if it was KU or UK. There just aren’t too many Lightfoot’s out there. Most become fans over the years like Graham. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing as long as the kid buys in. I just had envisioned Dotson being here long enough to leave a legacy.

dylans said:

@Crimsonorblue22 I have no doubt he cares deeply about the team he’s playing on. I just don’t think it would’ve mattered if it was KU or UK. There just aren’t too many Lightfoot’s out there. Most become fans over the years like Graham. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing as long as the kid buys in. I just had envisioned Dotson being here long enough to leave a legacy.

And he'll very likely be here at least another season.

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 he'll be back. No way he's a first rounder.

Neither is Grimes a 1st rounder - -and he is gone - sure didn't stop him

@jayballer73 I don't believe anymore that the NBA drafts on "potential".

I think they believe in magic if they think they can take someone who can't play ball and turn them into superstars.

Suddenly... recruiting the mid-level players looks appealing.

I grew up in Kansas and was exposed to quality basketball my entire life. This OAD stuff is ruining basketball. I'm back on my perch, chirping my old strategy from past years... that Kansas become the first "elite program" to intentionally state we aren't looking for elite talent. We want the guys who know they aren't jumping to the league in 8 months. And we start trimming out our existing assistant coaches who are here for their ability to recruit and we bring in assistants with a resume for development.

Anyone remember when I advised we pay the big $ to connect us to John Lucas? Might be too late for that since he's now the developmental coach for the Houston Rockets. But there is plenty of talented guys out there capable of becoming big-time developmental coaches.

This past year was sour. I know we caught some bad breaks. But it still was based on hype from the word "go." #1 in the country?

I'm tired of the hype. And I'm tired of elite recruits who have a certain skill set that gives them their ranking, but can't perform the simple tasks required to play fundamental basketball. I grew up with the fundamentals and I bet I could still take my old rear end out on a court and could seal off the rim for boards better than anyone on our team. It's pathetic!

I vote for a retool! And I still think Bill Self is the guy who can do this. He's proven himself to me. Hudy is also solid gold. Beyond that... I'd start from scratch.

I guarantee you one thing... college basketball fans from across the nation would grasp our new concept and would become instant fans of Kansas!

I'm sick of us throwing our brand and heritage into the trash can because of elite recruits who could care less about Naismith, the Big Dipper, and on and on.

jayballer73 said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

@BeddieKU23 he'll be back. No way he's a first rounder.

Neither is Grimes a 1st rounder - -and he is gone - sure didn't stop him

Sure. Just two completely different families and players. The plan from the jump was for Q to be one and done. Devon was almost the opposite. Take 2 or 3 years and develop before leaving.

Well looks like Mitch gonna have to play the point - - Garrett at the 2 and Big Dave manning the 5 lmao - ought to be good for at least 25 points a game - what a one big huge pile of dog crap

He is hiring an agent - -ya I know he still can come back - -decent chance he does - -yet at this point who the hell knows anymore - -can't trust anything right now at this point. - -At this point given this it wouldn't even surprise me if Ochai looked around as to wha'ts coming back - and HE declare for the NBA draft to test - wouldn't surprise me at all - -I though Devon would be here for the two years and then test/go - -BUT not his freshman

Now let's play the what if. - -say Devon preforms well enough at the combine and decides to stay in - - maybe it does help us with Grimes AND Dotson both not being here for RJ Hampton to step right in -you would think he would have all kinds of minutes - it's a fricken dumpster fire with a high blaze right now - I for one didn't see this coming with Devon -- not this year.

Not going to recognize ANYONE on next years roster. - Then again like someone else said - -MAYBE there is more fire to the smoke about Self moving on to the NBA. - Maybe he has had enough of the NCAA on top of his losses of players this year - - maybe he is tired of the recruiting game and the stress. - Maybe he is guilty and we facing penalities - and he bailing out.

I mean what's he got left to prove at the College level? - -for real ? - -He has won a NCAA title - -he is a Hall of fame Coach - - he has more straight Conference titles then any other Coach and that will probably never be broken - -nothing left to prove at this level - -n

Now my friends if you will excuse me -- I've got a bridge to jump off of lmao - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@drgnslayr said: "I grew up with the fundamentals and I bet I could still take my old rear end out on a court and could seal off the rim for boards better than anyone on our team. It’s pathetic!"

This is how I feel watching every single one of our games. Well, let me preface that by saying I feel that way watching the players that, in my opinion, aren't giving their all - and there's a lot more of them now than there used to be. But I'm sitting on my couch watching the game thinking "I'm 60 years old and I could whip every single one of these guys one on one". And I will personally GUARANTEE I could beat every one on this year's team in a free throw shooting contest. And I'm not bragging - they were just that bad.

@nuleafjhawk

I am realistic, and I remember what it took to haul arse up and down a court. We'd last about 1 minute up and down, but that one minute we would dominate the paint! (smile)

It almost seems like the elite guys are offended to think they should have to hustle and put a body on someone.

I had a hard time understanding Grimes. How can any player play 30+ minutes and barely mark a stat sheet? The ball will eventually fall into your hands if you just jiggle around a little bit.

I am very happy with Big Mac! He still needs to work on his footwork (considerably), but he puts plenty of effort into his time on the court.

I was thrilled to see the NC game wasn't stuffed with OADs. I wish we could become a team like that.

Man, let's face it, we are all die hards - want the best for our Jayhawks. When did we have the best time as fans? Old timers, '88? New and old, 2008? What do those teams have in common? Danny Manning - one of the all-time greats, no doubt! - and a bunch of scrappers.... A loaded 08 team, true, but out of everyone on that team who was a OAD? No one, that team was built, ditto for the other damn near championship teams. We need to recruit solid, tough players who - like Frank and Devonte - can D up and grow as players, bleeding Jayhawk. A bigtime player here and there who we can cultivate and recruit sure, but all in on - even after the OAD rule is gone - players only looking for a quick exit, no thank you. Thoughts anyone?

@Marco Zackly. As good as Danny Manning was, if he were a OAD - no championship.

Why can't everyone just do things MY way for a change?

If you want to play pro ball, go play pro ball. Who cares? But do it right out of High School. Or Jr High. Or Kindergarten. Whatever grade you fool yourself into thinking that you're NBA ready.

But leave college out of it. If you go to college, stay in college. Win some championships. Make friends and influence people. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

@nuleafjhawk well it isn't the kids' fault. Products of their environment. We just need to Target kids that will stick around and develop until it's truly the right time to bounce. No doubt Jerome and Hunter will bounce. They'd be foolish not to. The only recent team I remember that stuck around with stock high after a championship was Florida with Noah.

@approxinfinity You're right - it isn't the kids' fault. If you or I are 17, 18 years old and somebody wags 20-100 million in front of our faces - what are you going to do?

That's why I'm saying - if they want the money - go pro right out of high school. If they want the college experience - stay four years.

You'll know when I'm elected President - that will be the first thing I do. You'll be like "HEY! Ol Nuleafjhawk is our president! I'm leaving the country now!"

While the change in the OAD rule will help, it won't stop players from going pro after one year of course. There will still be some of that. But the top 5-10 (or more depending on the year) guys generally can just go and make money. That will keep them from coming in and being one year distractions, and will hopefully keep Self from pursuing them in the hopes they don't turn pro. And for the guys that come here and then turn pro, it will hopefully be more because of going all in, improving, and playing well, vs. presuming they are going pro. It won't be perfect but it has to be better.

So I have seen two national writers ( Jeff Goodman and Jon Rothstein) mention Grimes when talking about KU's starting 5 next year... It caught my attention because I thought it was assumed he was 100% gone. I am not getting my hopes up about him coming back, but just found it was kind of odd they both mentioned him...

Woodrow said:

So I have seen two national writers ( Jeff Goodman and Jon Rothstein) mention Grimes when talking about KU's starting 5 next year... It caught my attention because I thought it was assumed he was 100% gone. I am not getting my hopes up about him coming back, but just found it was kind of odd they both mentioned him...

thought he had an Agent and said he was done in College

@jayballer73 It doesn't matter this year if you have a agent or not. You can have one and still return to school.

@Woodrow Very interesting ... would love to have him back. A humble young man without the humbled Vick knuckleheadism.

I don't think he's coming back. I don't think they know him like we do?🤔

@Woodrow - it makes a difference if the player takes cash or benefits....

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I don't think he's coming back. I don't think they know him like we do?🤔

na he not coming back. - He said he was looking forward to the next Chapter in his life. - -Mama - & Daddy just chalking this up to an off year - -wants baby boy to move to the NBA

I think we could be looking at a starting five if Hampton re-classifies IF nobody else were to commit - - we probably would be Dotson at the point - - - Hampton at the 2 - - - Ochai - - the 3 - - Doke at the 5 - -and then hopefully Silvio or Holyfield at the 4. - -McCormack backing up Doke at the 5 - - - -Garrett backing up Dotson at the 1 - -Lightfoot giving the 4 a spot break or Mitch also filling in backup at the 5 -- Then we can have Braun backing up Hampton at the 2 - -we would be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Gorilla72 Right, but having a agent is irrelevant now. Actually you can take money and or accept benefits if they are repaid.

How about:

G: Dotson, McBride

G: Hampton, Garrett

G: Tucker, Agbaji

F: Silvio, Holyfield

C: Doke, McCormack.

Get rekt, America.

Woodrow said:

So I have seen two national writers ( Jeff Goodman and Jon Rothstein) mention Grimes when talking about KU's starting 5 next year... It caught my attention because I thought it was assumed he was 100% gone. I am not getting my hopes up about him coming back, but just found it was kind of odd they both mentioned him...

He's super gone.

@FarmerJayhawk Nice breakdown. Any lineup where Agbaji doesn't start, I can't support, though. Agbaji has to start. Agbaji has "it" -- you heard it from me first back in January. To me, that's the one given. Agbagi starting. Then we fill in the next 4 (Dotson and Doke, of course, pending NBA flirtations). I will be wildly disappointed if Self has anyone start ahead of Agbaji.

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk Nice breakdown. Any lineup where Agbaji doesn't start, I can't support, though. Agbaji has to start. Agbaji has "it" -- you heard it from me first back in January. To me, that's the one given. Agbagi starting. Then we fill in the next 4 (Dotson and Doke, of course, pending NBA flirtations). I will be wildly disappointed if Self has anyone start ahead of Agbaji.

Have to agree - - -I just feel we can't keep Agbaji out - -think he brings to many things. - -He can D up - - Decent shot - -has good hops - -good rebounder - just about as solid as we got other then Dotson possibly

jayballer73 said:

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk Nice breakdown. Any lineup where Agbaji doesn't start, I can't support, though. Agbaji has to start. Agbaji has "it" -- you heard it from me first back in January. To me, that's the one given. Agbagi starting. Then we fill in the next 4 (Dotson and Doke, of course, pending NBA flirtations). I will be wildly disappointed if Self has anyone start ahead of Agbaji.

Have to agree - - -I just feel we can't keep Agbaji out - -think he brings to many things. - -He can D up - - Decent shot - -has good hops - -good rebounder - just about as solid as we got other then Dotson possibly

I like Ochai a lot, don't get me wrong. But after he cratered at the end of last season I really want an insurance policy. And why not take a guy that averaged 21 and 7 while shooting 41% from 3?

FarmerJayhawk said:

How about:

G: Dotson, McBride

G: Hampton, Garrett

G: Tucker, Agbaji

F: Silvio, Holyfield

C: Doke, McCormack.

Get rekt, America.

Who's Tucker? Unless he's a 5 Star top 10-15 prospect, he ain't hopping over Agbaji.

chriz said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

How about:

G: Dotson, McBride

G: Hampton, Garrett

G: Tucker, Agbaji

F: Silvio, Holyfield

C: Doke, McCormack.

Get rekt, America.

Who's Tucker? Unless he's a 5 Star top 10-15 prospect, he ain't hopping over Agbaji.

He score 20 a game last year fairly efficiently, albeit in the Sun Belt. It will be a fierce battle for his remaining year of college hoops. UNC wants him big time among others.

If Self pulls off a miracle and gets Hampton + Tucker then Agbaji won't start. I don't think it's too likely though.

chriz said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

How about:

G: Dotson, McBride

G: Hampton, Garrett

G: Tucker, Agbaji

F: Silvio, Holyfield

C: Doke, McCormack.

Get rekt, America.

Who's Tucker? Unless he's a 5 Star top 10-15 prospect, he ain't hopping over Agbaji.

Rayjon Tucker, a grad transfer from Little Rock. He was head and shoulders better than Ochai last year. I’d actually think about starting them both if we miss on Hampton or Dotson doesn’t come back.

FarmerJayhawk said:

jayballer73 said:

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk Nice breakdown. Any lineup where Agbaji doesn't start, I can't support, though. Agbaji has to start. Agbaji has "it" -- you heard it from me first back in January. To me, that's the one given. Agbagi starting. Then we fill in the next 4 (Dotson and Doke, of course, pending NBA flirtations). I will be wildly disappointed if Self has anyone start ahead of Agbaji.

Have to agree - - -I just feel we can't keep Agbaji out - -think he brings to many things. - -He can D up - - Decent shot - -has good hops - -good rebounder - just about as solid as we got other then Dotson possibly

I like Ochai a lot, don't get me wrong. But after he cratered at the end of last season I really want an insurance policy. And why not take a guy that averaged 21 and 7 while shooting 41% from 3?

either way you won't here me bitchin. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

FarmerJayhawk said:

or Dotson doesn’t come back.

:octagonal_sign:

Dotson is coming back. no way he goes anywhere else

Bosthawk said:

Dotson is coming back. no way he goes anywhere else

he will be back. - -Thinking more like he just testing to see what the feed back is - where they need him to improve.

He wouldn't be 1st round this yrs draft - -maybe middle of the 2nd - -he will be back. NOW after next year? - - All bets are off. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 D*** right he’ll be back. First team all Big 12. 40% 3 ball. Making us wonder if he could reach Mason status.

HighEliteMajor said:

@jayballer73 D*** right he’ll be back. First team all Big 12. 40% 3 ball. Making us wonder if he could reach Mason status.

I think he is just another young Frank Mason - -loves to drive the ball - although faster then frank - I think his 3 will be better - -like I said after next yr all bets are off about him coming back for his Jr year. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@BShark Man,,, I sure hope so.

FarmerJayhawk said:

chriz said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

How about:

G: Dotson, McBride

G: Hampton, Garrett

G: Tucker, Agbaji

F: Silvio, Holyfield

C: Doke, McCormack.

Get rekt, America.

Who's Tucker? Unless he's a 5 Star top 10-15 prospect, he ain't hopping over Agbaji.

Rayjon Tucker, a grad transfer from Little Rock. He was head and shoulders better than Ochai last year. I’d actually think about starting them both if we miss on Hampton or Dotson doesn’t come back.

Ah, got it, didn't realize he was a grad transfer. Yeah, that could justify it.

I don’t want anyone that causes a situation where Agbaji doesn’t start. Dotson, Tucker, Agbaji works quite nicely.

Loyalty and opportunity should be given to a guy that burned a redshirt to save our season.

@HighEliteMajor

I think they will work hard to fit Agbaji into that SG position. I see him starting no matter who KU potentially lands.

Landing Tucker is basically a more polished version of Agbaji. It also removes the necessity for Garrett to start and play 40 minutes. We know where Self's loyalty is there though

@HighEliteMajor shouldn’t the better player that shoots better which this team desperately needs start??

*if Ochai drastically improves his shot this Summer and proves to be the better option he could fit that.

But talent and fit are should be the only thing that matters when it comes to starting and or playing time

@BeddieKU23 Agreed. The big key, as you mentioned, is to try to marginalize the need Garrett's minutes. But of course, Garrett does have a role, and it could be a very important role. A player like Garrett is Self's soft spot. It is clear to me that Self, deep in his coaching mind, somehow likes the pain of a poor offensive player that does the other things at a high level. We know he views shooting as an unreliable commodity.

@Woodrow My view on roster building .. just my personal view .. involves loyalty and commitment. So when you have a potential star, and a humble one at that in Agbaji, you don't recruit over that guy. You don't bring someone in, presumptively, to push him out of his starting role. In the long run, I think that gives you a better team dynamic. Of course, competition is good. The type of competition and one year fixes aren't my preference related to what are the better players on your roster.

And Agbaji really doesn't need to improve his shot in my opinion. He needs to better improve his flow into his shot. Too many times it was grab and shoot -- appearing rushed. I think it is an easy fix, and I expect we'll see that next season. My only quibble is the feet are a bit wide but a lot of really good shooters have done that. He's got an angle to his body that is similar to Malik Newman, shot-wise, and that works for a lot of players. Just needs to maintain a shooter's tempo.

We should place our complete faith in this kid to be a cornerstone.

@HighEliteMajor

Agbaji played hurt down the stretch as well. I admire everything about what this kid provided for this team last year. I agree about building around him. Garrett has a ton of value, another player that played on one leg for his team. We know what he brings and what he doesn't. It's never going to change. But this team needs shooting desperately to balance it all out.

Marcus Garrett is an interesting case. He's going to be a four year player. We all know that.

The question is how much more he can improve if he does not improve as a shooter.

We all agree that Garrett does very well at the little things and is an outstanding defender. Those are skills that he owns, and I am not all that concerned that those will erode or that his effort will take a step back. However, I am still concerned. My concern comes from questioning how much more Garrett can improve as a player if his most glaring weakness does not improve. Simply put, how good does he have to be at the little things if he continues to shoot around 30% from the perimeter?

Garrett's lack of shooting puts incredible pressure on the rest of his game. He has to rebound and defend at such a high level simply to be playable. That's why I wrote about Garrett doing a complete teardown and rebuild of his jumpshot yesterday. I fear that Garrett has maxed out his potential if he does not improve as a shooter. It's just too big a hole in his game (like being a guard that can't handle the ball). His improvement as a player at this point is almost exclusively dependent on his development as a shooter.

@HighEliteMajor No Mason status - unless he stays four years.

@justanotherfan

It puts incredible pressure on the team as well. If your trotting out Garrett and Azubuike on the floor at the same time that's just making it really easy for teams to guard you.

@nuleafjhawk Agreed .. I do think he has the skills to compete for national POY. But we may not see it here.

@BeddieKU23 @justanotherfan Completely agree. Heck, it may be impossible for Garrett to make an entry pass to Doke. His guy could just sag deep. He's Releford without the shot.

@chriz I have heard that Zeus Jackson is seriously considering KU.