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https://www.usatoday.com/videos/sports/nba/sportspulse/2019/06/27/how-zion-williamson-quickly-become-billionaire/1583934001/ ↗

Looks like I have some backing on my threat about how quickly Zion will become a billionaire.

It's all about building the Zion brand now. So that means exchanging the basketball trainer for a marketing wonk trainer to educate him on marketability. Speaking coach. Yes... speaking coach.

I've heard Zion is already being pulled into NBA boardrooms to offer him team ownership deals. He hasn't even dribbled a basketball in a real NBA game yet.

Here's a little bit of info for Coach Self and the rest of the blue blood coaches chasing after the top elites... listen to the end of the video clip. Coach K is giving his top shelf players a scoring education in marketing probably more than how to score on the court.

Yes. Money corrupts. Everything.

I could see him having weight/injury problems and becoming a nobody with in 5 years. But yes Money is the name in everything right, less and less isnt corrupt in today's world.

@kjayhawks What, a smaller version of Dwight Howard?

@kjayhawks

I see it as he has a case of the "unknowns." His future will be stacked with cash, but as far as his lifestyle, it is an unknown. Heck, he's barely a man yet. So the unknown is exciting by itself. What happens after his lifestyle is known? Does he like it? Lots of pressure... there is always pressure. And how about the chaos?

From what I've read about him, he's fairly level headed, and he will need to be.

Sorry, don't see him a transcendent player as most prognosticators do. I see right now only a powerful dunker who had better be in a hurry to develope other facets of his game or he will soon be exposed. I think he compares favorably to a poor man's Shawn Kemp.

@Marco

I see Zion as a better version of Charles Barkley. Same body style, but more athletic.

If Zion focuses on rebounds, he should be able to lead the league in rebounds.

He is bound to become a better shooter than Sir Charles, especially from trey.

And I believe he can become a very high scorer because of the trey... not so much on him hitting treys as much as defenses all have to come out and guard the trey. That leaves driving lanes open and he will learn to take it to the rack on anyone.

If he stays healthy, I see him putting up big numbers. Just think it would be nice to see him on an established team where he can blend in a bit and play with less the chip of having to carry his team on his back.

Zion was actually a terrible rebounder for his size. His rebounding percentage was only 15 which is not good for a post player.

His PER was over 40 for the year though which I've never seen a PER that high at the D1 level before. His assist rate was at a level that indicates that his skill set has a lot of similarities to LeBron's and Zion may end as more of a point forward in the LeBron/Magic mold than a Charles Barkley type.

@Texas-Hawk-10 So, are you saying that he might whind up being a more explosive version of Ben Simmons?

Zion could be a great rebounder if he committed to it, particularly on the offensive glass where he would be a real menace because of his explosiveness.

But his skills dictate that he get the ball in his hands away from the rim quite a bit because he can handle the ball and is a very adept passer as @Texas-Hawk-10 notes.

There are a few paths Zion could take.

1. Charles Barkley 2.0 - a modernized young Barkley. A few less rebounds, but more assists. Barkley's first All Star season saw him average 23 points, 14.6 boards and nearly 5 assists, with more than a block and a steal a game. I could see Zion averaging 22 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists and nearly 4 combined blocks and steals a game, with an effective FG% over 62% because he can likely shoot around 33% from three (Barkley generally shot under 30% from three).

2. Super Draymond Green - Basically a do everything forward that can guard all 5 positions defensively. Less scoring, but more efficient. Something along the lines of 17 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, roughly 3.5 combined steals and blocks, 65%+ eFG%. This only works if he gets guys like Lonzo Ball, Stanley Johnson, Brandon Ingram, etc. to be able to be the focal point of the offense so he can do a little less pure scoring.

3. mini Lebron - His rebounding will suffer here because he will facilitate more, but something like 26/7/6/1.5/1, with an eFG% of around 50%. His efficiency suffers here, but that's still a great line. Also, that line is a shade under what Lebron has averaged for his career.

4. All Star Shawn Kemp 2.0 - 20 points, 10 rebounds, but fewer assists as his ball handling responsibilities diminish.

All four of those scenarios are perennial All Star level scenarios. If Zion stays healthy, I don't think there's a path that leads him to be less than a consistent all star.

@justanotherfan I have no doubt that he is going to be very good, just don't see him as a transcedent talent. Like I said, think he compares favorably to Shawn Kemp, who was certainly not a scrub.

@Marco No because Ben Simmons can't shoot beyond 5' and didn't attempt a single 3 pointer last year because of how bad his shooting is. Zion isn't an elite shooter by any means, but he can knock down an outside shot if he's open.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zion averaged over 20 a game. He's going to get max minutes.

@Marco

Blake Griffin would be the comp I’d use.

Why are we discussing Zion? I thought this was KU Buckets? :)

@wissox If Townson had come thru...

@KUSTEVE Easily 20....

8-10 on fast break
4-6 on hustle put backs
2-4 on the block
4-6 FTs

Even though I was kind of joking and I have a lot of respect for drgnslayr as one of the best posters here, I really tire of Zion and Duke..... I know I can just scroll on, just questioning why anyone is discussing this media made basketball player who was so great his team beat Central Florida in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament.

@wissox Zion is a freak athlete. A 6-7, 285 lb. person is not supposed to be able to do the things on a basketball court that Zion is capable of.

The potential is there for Zion to be a generational player. Obviously that doesn't mean he will get there. He still needs to become a much better rebounder and improve his shooting along with staying healthy. Players with his ceiling don't come around very often.

Potential upside is why Philly took a risk on keeping Embiid and that he wouldn't turn into another Greg Oden. Embiid is the most skilled and gifted big man since Olajuwon and his ability is making Philly a legit title contender right now.

Going out on a limb here🤪 embiid is a Jayhawk

Sorry I go off too much on Zion. I'm a perennial Duke "hater"... but I am infatuated with that kid and why not pick the brains of fans of the game (in here)?

Lots of good theories in here. The more I think about it, the more I think he will become focused on what his team needs and how their chemistry works. Question will be: does Zion get to pick the direction he takes his game or does it come from his team? My bet is they will have to keep him happy, and he will be calling the shots.

Two thumbs up on Embiid being the best big man since Olajuwon. I still think he is far away from hitting his ceiling. Not sure he can get near it because I'm skeptical about his ability to stay healthy. Just too much Embiid having to move up and down the court and get up in the air. Plus, he takes a lot of gambles because he is so gifted with his body. Not sure he needs to be diving for loose balls on the sidelines... but he does.

There was a part of this thread not really focused directly on Zion, but more on Coach K and how he's manicuring the elites. Sounds quite a bit different than Self when he had Wigs. The game just flat out has too much money around it. Not so much in college as after... and how much of that is actually earned income directly from the league, and how much pure commercialism (ads and big business).

If Zion does "break out" in the league and becomes a super duper star... does Duke ride in on his coattails? Kind of like UNC and Jordan? I think of those things because we have the appearance of trying to be one of those teams recruiting top tier talent. I remember Self being questioned about it several years ago and he flat out said he was going to try to land the very best skilled talent he can land. I don't think anything has changed there concerning his strategy.

Will Virginia start piling up NCs? More for 'Nova? It still looks (to me) that the National Champions typically aren't stocked with OADs. And now we have a telling example, Zion and cast couldn't win it all. I still don't understand how Duke lost in March. It made enough of an impression on me to really question our recruiting strategy. Put with that players like Q. I'm not against recruiting high ranked players. I just think we need a better vetting method. Look harder at the players potential and judge if he will fly to the NBA early.

I think we've been having too many players that really don't give us enough and then split too fast for the league. We invest everything in these guys and we need to get "paid back." I don't see many elite players that can really get us paid back in one year.

What if Zion had come to Kansas? Would our year have been different? I'm not 100% sure it would have been different, even to the point that maybe our conference streak still would have ended. On paper we would have looked better... but in reality, who knows?

I saw he is missing the rest of summer league with an injury. Injuries I think are going to be the biggest question surrounding his ceiling and what he becomes. Longevity could be a real concern

Duke did not win a national title this year because their roster was flawed.

Even though they had a ton of top end talent, that talent did not necessarily fit together well on the court. Reddish and Barrett played the same position, and would have had similar roles had they been on different teams. On the same team, Reddish was often the odd man out. Even still, Reddish was easily their third best player.

Behind the four freshmen (adding in PG Jones) Duke had basically zero depth. The NCAA is still five on five, and Duke didn't really have anyone else they trusted to give minutes to. Their four freshmen all played about 30 mpg, with most of the other players on the team playing 20 mpg or less. Had Williamson, Reddish and Jones not missed time, there's a decent chance that Duke would have had four players average 30+ minutes and four others averaging 15 or so minutes per game. That lack of depth consistently got exposed, particularly in the tournament where good teams could attack the weak link on the floor.

On top of that, Duke didn't have much in the way of perimeter shooting. They shot 30% as a team from three. They likely would have been unguardable if they had shot 35% from three, and a real nightmare at just 33%.

Duke had a flawed roster and it haunted them all March. If you could keep Williamson and Barrett out of the paint, Duke was actually easier to guard, and they always had at least one weaker player on the floor.

We all know that most NCAA champions have at least seven or eight legitimate contributors. That is just a must unless you get really lucky.

Didn’t Dukes sniper miss like 30 threes in a row? Lol Duke

justanotherfan said:

We all know that most NCAA champions have at least seven or eight legitimate contributors. That is just a must unless you get really lucky.

Think your last paragraph says it all. And you are right, they didn't have the right combination of talent. I thought Jones actually did a great job of making them look like a team.

An easier part of the game to come together (defense)... they still were lackluster. Just think players need time to play with each other (multiple years) to understand each other's tendencies and eventually they feel each other's presence (without having to look).

How do you feel about next year's Jayhawks? I realize there are some unknowns, like trey shooting, but I'm feeling like this year's team can be a contender. And they are riding in on less pressure (streak is gone) while carrying a chip at the same time.

So do we have 7 or 8 contributors?

@drgnslayr

I am concerned about how much depth KU has, as well as how KU can play their best 5 together.

If KU's best group includes Doke, de Souza and Garrett, how do you build a real D1 offense with the skillsets of those three guys.

Let's say the best group is Moss, Dotson and the previously mentioned three. How is that better than what we showed last year? Lawson was much more polished than I believe de Souza will be. Moss and Vick are about the same. Doke is what he is, and despite our criticisms, Garrett likely isn't a large upgrade over Grimes.

So unless Dotson has made a huge leap, we have last year's team with some new faces. Perhaps I am too pessimistic, but that's my concern. I just don't see large differences right now.

@justanotherfan The bright side is last year's team with Doke was really damn good even if Lawson and Doke rarely both had a good game together.

I have a lot of the same line-up and fit concerns. Need to see how Self ends up playing it.

@justanotherfan It depends on which team you're talking about. If you're talking about the team that had Doke and Vick in the lineup, that team was undefeated.

@KUSTEVE

If you are confident that Vick was going to continue to shoot over 60% from three, you are right to be confident in this lineup.

If you don't think that was going to continue, then that's where the floor spacing issues start.

justanotherfan said:

@KUSTEVE

If you are confident that Vick was going to continue to shoot over 60% from three, you are right to be confident in this lineup.

If you don't think that was going to continue, then that's where the floor spacing issues start.

Then I'll let you do the all the worrying. I don't have the ability to look at that roster and see lack.

Vick had little to do with that start last year. He put up numbers against the cupcakes and no showed to good teams like he always did.

Doke was the difference maker. KU made a Final Four the one season he was "healthy" all season. Keeping Doke healthy is the key for the season since he's so big that nobody else has an answer for him.

@justanotherfan

I sense a bit too much fear from your response.

We were undefeated last year until Doke went down.

I expect the biggest key coming into this year will be Devon. As great as he was last year, I'm expecting him to make a pretty major jump in play this year. Last year he, for the most part, played "trying not to make a mistake." He did a pretty good job of that, especially for a freshman. This year he's a different player. His role is changing and the focus is on him being a real playmaker. He has the skill, perhaps the most of any KU PG ever! (guess we will see)

Doke is an offensive beast when he is feed his red meat in the low post. Silvio will be, too, but with his range extended out to midrange.

Marcus really gave us a lift on offense last year until he got banged up. I hope he gets back to 100% but what I've heard he isn't there yet. My hope is by the new year he's totally back. It would be a real bonus if he can bump up his trey numbers to just be respectable. He's been working hard on his shot (from what is reported).

What we really need is some decent perimeter scoring. I'm hoping Moss will be a huge help there. Devon should be improved, too. Just having defenses mush in on the paint should be helpful for all our guys on the perimeter.

But why are we talking about offense? Let's talk about Doke, Silvio and Marcus on defense! Let's be a team that leads by our defense. Doesn't mean we have to play "bad ball." How about we create some open court offense with our defense! I want to see guys like Marcus overplaying the passing lanes because he has a huge post behind him to help out!

justanotherfan said:

@drgnslayr

I am concerned about how much depth KU has, as well as how KU can play their best 5 together.

If KU's best group includes Doke, de Souza and Garrett, how do you build a real D1 offense with the skillsets of those three guys.

Let's say the best group is Moss, Dotson and the previously mentioned three. How is that better than what we showed last year? Lawson was much more polished than I believe de Souza will be. Moss and Vick are about the same. Doke is what he is, and despite our criticisms, Garrett likely isn't a large upgrade over Grimes.

So unless Dotson has made a huge leap, we have last year's team with some new faces. Perhaps I am too pessimistic, but that's my concern. I just don't see large differences right now.

I definitely think you're being pessimistic.

First off, lets start by saying we will be dropping Grimes and Moore who were the two worst regulars in the rotation. Period. There is no debate here. Grimes shot .384 from the field and Moore shot .286. No that is not a typo. Garrett was more efficient per shot last season than both players. (Points per shot attempt).

Straight-up, you're undervaluing the Doke, De Sousa, and Dave combo. Those three will be 30+ ppg at a clip near .650. Doke alone is the most impactful player on the court when he's in the game, don't @ me. Both offensively and defensively he is a game changer.

You don't mention Ochai once in this post. Who very well could be the leading scorer on next season's team and shoot 3s near .400 . I'm slotting him in for 12-15 PPG.

Dotson is almost a lock for 15 PPG.

Garrett scored 8.8 PPG in conference play last season.

Our backup PG is NOT Charlie Moore. That is worth 3-5 PPG. At least!

Moss looks to be good for 9 ppg.

This team will be able to get to 80 points pretty consistently. Which is math for a lot of wins for a Bill Self team.

If you consider that our starting 5 could actually be:
- Dotson
- Moss
- Ochai
- De Sousa
- Doke

Then you have 2 post scorers surrounded by 3 shooters.

When you bring Garrett off the bench, sure, you lose a shooter. But then you also have the ability to bring Jalen Wilson (or Enaruna) off the bench if we need more shooting or athleticism.

I still lament losing Perry’s Sr. year. Not as much as ‘97, but still a very winnable tournament.

This squad looks way better than last seasons dud, but last season’s team had no chemistry or athleticism. This year should be fun again.

dylans said:

I still lament losing Perry’s Sr. year. Not as much as ‘97, but still a very winnable tournament.

This squad looks way better than last seasons dud, but last season’s team had no chemistry or athleticism. This year should be fun again.

Agreed.

Last year was a disaster because of so many factors that didn't go our way. Just one of those years. If we can keep everyone healthy and away from the NCAA's eyeballs... we should have a really great year and hopefully contend for the big prize!

Think about all the distractions we faced last year. That factor alone was huge.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't think we'll get much if anything by way of NCAA sanctions. A slap on the ass after shitting on the floor, "bad dog, but you're a good boooyyyyy!"